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Cider Digest #0619
Subject: Cider Digest #619, 16 October 1996
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #619 16 October 1996
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Press making (Andrew LEA)
Cranberry cider and ascorbic acid (Andrew LEA)
Unknown cider apple (Andrew LEA)
Pasteurising cider (Andrew LEA)
Yeasts and residual sweetness (Andrew LEA)
Racking sweet cider (Andrew LEA)
Yankee article/Cranberrys (t.duchesneau@genie.com)
This Year's Cider (Peter R. Hoover)
RE: plans to construct... (Philip DiFalco)
anyone have source for SS hardware? (Dick Dunn)
Sweetness; age. (Russell Mast)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Press making
From: Andrew LEA <101750.3071@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 09:55:56 -0400
Re discussion in Digest 618: I don't see Mother Earth News but I made my
cider press following the plan in the Agriculture Canada leaflet A73-1046
(ISBN 0-662-001551-6) - called 'Home Preparation of Juices, Wines and
Cider'. (This also has plans for a mill in it). It was last reprinted I
believe in 1980 and is now out of print (?) but a library may be able to
get you a photocopy (it's 26 pages in all). I think there was a similar
design also in a leaflet from the NYSAES in Geneva, NY. Basically it's a
frame of 4x4 timber powered by a 1 ton car jack - I scaled mine up in
proportion to use 6x6 ash timbers and use a 4 ton jack. I can get six 20
inch square cheeses in this so I get about 25 litres (5 gallons) per cycle.
The racks I made of commercial hardwood laths with chrome-plated screws
and all well-coated (as are all the juice-contact parts) in polyurethane -
I certainly wouldn't use oil for fear of rancidity - I think PU varnish
well-cured is much safer! I've used mine for several years and I recommend
the design.
Andrew Lea, Oxford, UK
------------------------------
Subject: Cranberry cider and ascorbic acid
From: Andrew LEA <101750.3071@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 09:55:40 -0400
Ernie Sargent (Digest 618) wants to make cider with frozen cranberry juice.
First, note that cranberry juice is naturally very high in benzoic acid and
will often NOT ferment for this reason because it inhibits the yeast. So
try it, but beware it may never get going!
Second, ascorbic acid doesn't generally lead to off-flavours in cider and
in fact is sometimes used in UK commercial ciders as a not-very-effective
substitute for SO2 for cider intended for canning (SO2 attacks cans!).
However, for reasons presently unknown, high levels of ascorbic during
fermentation (e.g. 250 ppm) change the yeast metabolism and make it
generate much larger amounts of keto-acids than usual - these are very
effective SO2 binders which mean in practice it's impossible to stabilise
such a cider after fermentation using SO2. This may not worry most of us
small-scale people but has important and negative commercial implications.
Andrew Lea, Oxford, UK
------------------------------
Subject: Unknown cider apple
From: Andrew LEA <101750.3071@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 09:55:42 -0400
I agree that Dick Dunn's cider apple (Digest 618) doesn't sound like a
'classical' Dabinett. Mine here flower a little later than say Foxwhelp
but not as late as Medaille d'Or. A key observation with Dabinett is that
the tree is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than other cider varieties growing on the
same rootstock and soil - also it's very subject to potash deficiency which
gives rusty margins to the leaves. Could it just be a bud sport of
Dabinett, though? Some Dabinett fruits I've seen are quite small and very
red, not just flushed. These things happen quite often and one wonders
just how many naturally occuring clones of say Dabinett there are in
cultivation. Certainly there are known to be dozens in the case of Cox and
I believe several hundred in the case of 'Blenheim Orange'. I have a tree
of 'Blenheim' here, bought from a reputable nurseryman, which is MUCH more
coloured (red) than the classical strain and you could easily take it for a
completely different apple. Otherwise, what about 'Reine des Pommes' which
I've never seen but has characteristics (from Bulmers Pomona) similar to
those you describe?
Andrew Lea, Oxford, UK
------------------------------
Subject: Pasteurising cider
From: Andrew LEA <101750.3071@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 09:55:45 -0400
Ron Kline (Digest 618) wants to pasteurise his cider with residual sugar.
Yes this can be done at home in a tank on a stove - take the bottles up to
about 68 C and hold for about 20 minutes , or up to about 75 C for a couple
of minutes. Then take them out and lay them on their sides to cool (this
helps to sterilise the inside of the cap). If the bottles are already
crown-capped there is always a risk of breakage when you heat - so be
prepared to cope with broken glass! I've never tried pasteurising
carbonated bottles at home in this way but would imagine the risk of
breakage would be greater due to the internal pressure - though commercial
tunnel pasteurisers used to get away with relatively few breakages (it's
all flash pasteurised now).
There IS a slight flavour change with the generation of a 'cooked' note
which is not unacceptable and would be minimised if you use SO2 as well.
Haze formation in store (protein-tannin type) WILL be encouraged by the
slow heating and cooling, but again is minimised by adding say 50 - 100 ppm
SO2 just before heating.
Andrew Lea, Oxford, UK
------------------------------
Subject: Yeasts and residual sweetness
From: Andrew LEA <101750.3071@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 09:55:54 -0400
In reply to Michael Ferdinando (Digest 618), yes of course it all depends
on what you mean by 'sweet'! My remarks were directed at people who want a
sweet cider of SG 1.015 - 1.025 or 30 - 50 g/l sugar i.e. similar to most
commercial UK ciders which are back-sweetened and pasteurised! The
residual sweetness of a dry white wine (only a few grams per litre sugar)
is also typical of a fully fermented 100% juice cider - most of that
derives in apple from natural sorbitol and pentoses which are
unfermentable, together with glycerol produced by the yeast! But Michael
is adding honey to give 8 - 10% alcohol (i.e. not 100% juice) at which
point some ale yeasts (but not wine yeasts) might begin to show a little
alcohol toxicity and slow down, particularly if nitrogenous nutrients are
limiting! Also honey does have some unfermentable sugars of its own.
Michael's technique sounds interesting though because the act of HEATING
(either juice or honey which is usually heated during processing) will
create new sugar re-arrangement compounds like hydroxymethylfurfural which
are known yeast inhibitors or maltol which has a very synergistic effect on
enhancing APPARENT sweetness even at levels of 50 parts per million or so.
So this might help to give the impression of sweetness even though most of
the sugar is gone. I believe in the US your wine regs permit the addition
of synthetic maltol or ethyl maltol to wine for this very purpose (this is
verboten here in the EC!). Has anyone tried it with cider - I might do it
myself to see what happens!
Andrew Lea, Oxford, UK
------------------------------
Subject: Racking sweet cider
From: Andrew LEA <101750.3071@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 09:55:48 -0400
In reply to Kevin (Digest 618) yes you CAN rack a cider repeatedly to slow
it down and eventually to stabilise it by removing yeast and nutrients.
This is the basis of the 'French traditional' process - see my web page
chapter 4 (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea) or
Charley's translation of Warcollier's book (Cider Digest 618) or the Proulx
and Nichols book. But be advised this is unlikely to work with a modern
wine yeast in a high nutrient juice, and is much more successful using a
'wild' or 'natural' yeast (ie non-Saccharomyces) in a nutrient-depleted
(keeved) juice. In my experience the gravity drop before racking must
already be no more than half a degree per day for this to be successful!
You can rack off first at 1.035, then at 1.025 etc until stabilised. I
start fermenting this type of cider (outdoors, to keep it cool) in November
and finish about March. As for time of racking - the French recommendation
is 'operer par temps clair et calme (haute pression)' - and I always wait
until it's a nice cold high-pressure day (which we often get here in
England after Christmas) to keep the yeast down and plenty of CO2 in
solution. That certainly helps the process for obvious physical reasons.
Andrew Lea, Oxford, UK
------------------------------
Subject: Yankee article/Cranberrys
From: t.duchesneau@genie.com
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 96 16:01:00 GMT
The October issue of Yankee magazine has a very interesting article titled
"In Search of the Perfect Cider". It discusses both sweet and hard cider,
cider apple varieties and apple blends. It even has some recipies including
Ginger Chicken with Cider and Spiced Squash and Cider Soup.
Ernie Sargent asked about using cranberry juice coctail concentrate. I've
used it along with fresh berries in a Cranberry Barkshack Ginger Mead a la
TNCJOHB. Since the concentrate I use (Shop & Save's house brand) has corn
syrup in it I use 4 12 oz cans and skip the corn sugar in the recipe. I
also use 3# of fresh berries - in the past I've put them into the hot liquid
after the boil is done to sanitize them, but I've had pectin problems and
all the aroma gets blown off. In the future I'll add them to the secondary
and use the alcohol in the brew to sanitize.
A cranberry cider sounds intereting, I just might try it myself.
...Tom
------------------------------
Subject: This Year's Cider
From: prh4@cornell.edu (Peter R. Hoover)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 08:28:06 -0400 (EDT)
Dear Friends,
Last weekend was the right time, again this year. 20 bushels mixed
aronmatic, sweet, and acid apples, and three bushels extremely tannic
winter pears. Around 70 gallons very tasty cider, at 8% potential alcohol.
Currently in primary fermentation with the pits and skins of 14 gallons of
sour cherries and 10 pounds of cane sugar, using a Cote de Blancs champagne
yeast. Around a hundred bottles of last year's batch are currently
undergoing first bottle fermentation, and will be disgorged and dosaged
next spring. Prosit!!
Peter R. Hoover, Cornell Publications Services, East Hill Plaza
Ithaca, NY 14850; 607 255-9454; fax, 255-5684 (prh4@cornell.edu)
------------------------------
Subject: RE: plans to construct...
From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd@fnma.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 14:15:55 -0400
> Subject: Cider Press in Denver, CO?
> From: "Hal Hammond" <hal@enterprise.advance.com>
> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:03:10 -0600
>
> ... Would also be interested in plans to construct
> a small press if anyone has any ideas (for next year?)
The following is something I saved (from somewhere)...
Good luck...
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 15:00:44 EDT
From: summit@vax785.orgella.com
Subject: Cider
**************** Cider Press *************
A few years ago I made a press. It cost about US$20.
The bucket was made from a 7 gallon plastic pail.
I used a 0.5 inch drill and perferated it at a 1 inch grid.
The frame was made from scrap 2x3 (inch) pine.
For the press I bought a 1 inch x 3 foot threaded rod, 5 nuts, and 2 @ 4 inch
washers. (one of the nuts is larger than the rod and can twist freely within)
I paid a welder $5 to weld 1 nut onto each washer, and the large nut onto a
metal plate.
I drilled 2 holes into the washers and metal plate to allow mounting.
The pressing plate was made of plywood coated in polyurathane, with a 2x3
mounted across for support. The large nut and plate were mounted into the 2x3.
The cross member of the frame had a hole drilled into it.
The washer & nut were mounted on the underside of the crossmember.
The remaining 2 nuts and nut/washer were used to fasten the prying lever to the
threaded rod. The lever is a 2x3 with a hole drilled through it. The washer
is mounted on the bottom sideand the nuts lock the lever down from the top.
N : nut
NW : nut welded to washer
LN: large nut
R : threaded rod
L : lever
B: bucket
F : frame
P : pressing plate
R
N
N
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
NW
R
R
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
F NW F
FB R BF
FB R BF
FB R BF
FB LN BF
FBPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPBF
FB BF
FB BF
FBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBF
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
It has worked for 5 seasons so far.
Mark Hibberd had a few questions about the press I described.
1) Crushed apples can flow through the drilled holes, a nylon bag helps.
When used for pressing grapes there is no problem.
The tapering of the pail is ~ 0.5 inch.
There is a gap when the plate is high in the bucket, no big deal.
2) I turn the handle 1 revolution, then wait a few minutes.
Toward the bottom of the pail I wait ~5 min, less at the top.
3) I press about 50 - 70% of the initial volume into juice.
4) I have not tried to make a crusher.
Freezing the apples allows them to shatter into a pulp.
Jeff Summit, summit_j@orgella.com
------------------------------
Subject: anyone have source for SS hardware?
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 14 Oct 96 14:20:09 MDT (Mon)
Does anybody know a good source for stainless steel hardware? I'd like to
make some modifications to a grinder/press...as far as possible I'd like to
use SS nuts/bolts/washers/etc. for all metal parts. Even if they're parts
that don't come into contact with the juice, cleanup would be less fussy
if there weren't a possibility of rust/corrosion.
Local hardware stores carry a small specialty section of 18-8 SS, but it's
fairly limited. I'm hoping to find something like a specialized mail-order
supplier with a large selection including larger lag bolts, carriage bolts,
and the like.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Sweetness; age.
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:32:53 -0500
> Subject: Cider - residual sweetness
> From: "Kevin Sprague" <homebrew@ix2.ix.netcom.com>
> Per the Homebrew Digest (I brew beer also), I has been stated
> numerous times that upon racking from the primary to the secondary,
> yeast settles out of solution very rapidly due to changes in
> volumetric pressure. If one were to rack a few times successively
> over the course of several days, could one not cause the majority of
> the yeast to settle out of solution thus ending with a sweet
> cider????
The thing to keep in mind with yeast is that they are living organisms.
You might be able to get so much of the yeast out via racking that
fermentation would greatly slow, but if you have only a few cells,
theoretically even only one cell, they will eventually mutliply and
resume fermentation. If you've bottled a sweet but fermentable cider
with a few yeast cells in it, you'll find you soon have a lot more yeast
cells and a lot more CO2, and you could be making bottle bombs.
On the other hand, if you can reliably filter out all the yeast, that
should stop it cold. But filtering raises several other issues.
> Subject: shelf life
> From: lprescot@sover.net
> I don't recall reading about this in past issues, but how long
> can a batch of cider, with an alcohol content of around 6% be
> expected to stay good. Judging from my beers, I would guess
> about 11 months to a year at the outside. Anyone know better?
If I'm not mistaken the shelf life of beer has a bit more to do
with the various chemicals in beer besides the alcohol. Yes, the
stronger beers have a longer shelf life than weaker beers, but
they also have a very different taste profile and they are pretty
nasty early on. This is because of the various chemical reactions
that occur with ageing - some of these reactions are necessary to
make wine and mead and barleywine good, some of them will destroy
the taste of regular-strength beers.
Bottom line - there's a lot more at play in shelf life than alcohol
content, and your best bet is to rely on others' experience rather
than theory. Several people have told me they've had ciders that
continued to improve for up to two years. I had a cider that peaked
at about 4 months. I had a bottle a couple days ago, about 10 months
old, and it tasted a fair bit worse - a lot of "yeasty" flavors.
Some of this is probably because I didn't let it clarify sufficiently,
and it might be related to the strain of yeast I used. (Belgian Ale,
because it's what I had on hand when the cider urge struck suddenly.)
- -R
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #619
*************************
