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Cider Digest #0592
Subject: Cider Digest #592, 14 April 1996
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #592 14 April 1996
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
too dry sparkling cider (Kathy Booth)
ale yeasts (lprescot@sover.net)
recent area ciders (lprescot@sover.net)
Paul's 1995 blend (Greg Kushmerek)
Re: Cider Digest #591, 9 April 1996 (Michael Vezie)
priming sugar (Wallinger)
Getting some carbonation in Cider (Alson Kemp)
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Subject: too dry sparkling cider
From: Kathy Booth <kbooth@isd.ingham.k12.mi.us>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 07:40:35 -0400 (EDT)
I agree with the warnings about glass grenades. Getting the
carbonation right has been the most difficult aspect of my cidre
production.
I use out of use glass Faygo bottles with screw on lids or flip
top Grolsch bottles, and if over carbonated, relieve a little pressure
without opening the lid.
My cidre ferments to dry, then I add 1 to 2 Tablespoons of
Sween-n-low to balance the flavor. This is sugar equivelent of 1 C
sucrose (at 1T/5gal).
I would like to use the alternatives to saccrin (sweet-n-lo) but
they are beyond my industrial capabilities to produce sweetened sparkling
cidre. I mix the 3/4c sucrose and the 1T Sween-n-lo with enuf cidre to
produce 1 T/bottle. This I add to each bottle before siphoning in the cidre.
Nutri-sweet is not recommended for processing which is why I use
saccrin. The product is infinitely more drinkable than the unsweetened
sparkling cidres.
Cheers Jim Booth, Lansing, MI
------------------------------
Subject: ale yeasts
From: lprescot@sover.net
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 08:20:19 -0400 (EDT)
Hello All:
For what it's worth: As a brewer/meadmaker of several years now, I've finished
my first two ciders, with interesting results I thought I'd mention here
Each batch was five gallons of raw cider from Bartlet's in Richmond, Mass.
Each was in the primary for 14 days with only a little nutrient (2 tsps).
Although this took place at different times, temperatures here in Vermont
varied considerably throughout the late winter.
There were only two differences between batches: #1 aged in the secondary for
14 days and was made with 10 grams of MUNTON yeast. #2 was aged 29 days and
was made with EDME yeast. #2 was made well after #1.
The result was that #1 came out relatively smooth and tart, not overbearingly
so. Even after several weeks of aging in the bottle, it is more tart than #2,
which came out noticeably less tart and a bit more full-bodied. Both ciders
are good!
My initial take on all of this is that the edme yeast produces a more
full-bodied and less tart cider. I'm not sure that the extra fifteen days in
the secondary would make THAT much of a difference.
David Prescott, Shaftsbury, Vermont
------------------------------
Subject: recent area ciders
From: lprescot@sover.net
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 08:34:33 -0400 (EDT)
Hi, All:
two new ciders have turned up in recent months around here. They're both
pretty good:
JOHNY MASH, imnsho, is the better of the two. It is tart and strong and made
in western (Berkshire County) Massachusetts. Alcohol content is around 6%. It
goes for under $7.00 (!) a six-pack.
CIDER JACK is also in the 6% range and is made in Middlebury, Vermont (also
home to the excellent Otter Creek beer people). It's a little less tart and
ful-bodied than the Johnny Mash. However, it has more life in it than the
Woodchuck Cider. It claims to be made from both French and North American
ciders (although in what incarnation it's difficult to say). Cider Jack seems
set up to compete with Woodchuck on its own turf. It has an odd, kind of
pretentious woodcut of a field-working kind of guy with a big, flexed bicep
with an apple in it. Looks like something from Stalinist Russia, while
Woodchuck has the old-time New Englandy look. But the results for Cider Jack
are OK. A little more expensive than the Johnny Mash here.
FWIW, both apear to be truly independent of larger parent companies.
David Prescott, Shaftsbury, Vermont
------------------------------
Subject: Paul's 1995 blend
From: gwk@world.std.com (Greg Kushmerek)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 09:14:48 -0400
> Did Paul Correnty have a custom press this last fall?
Yes, several.
As to the apples that he used: I know he used mac's, gravensteins,
wolf river, and red delicious. I think he also had some spy apples.
I do not know the proportions.
> Is anyone on the list still using the yeast extracted from the
> Correnty Blend #2? Does it live on in a Back East yeast farm?
I've used a natural yeast strain for three years now (both cultured
and from the apple skins that went in the press). The culture is
available to members of the Boston Wort Processors or to anyone who
gets Paul's juice in the fall. I don't know which orchard originally
provides the strain (probably one in Westford, MA), and there is a
good chance that the strain I use with the apples each year may very
well be different depending on the apples that Paul buys from
different orchards.
Nevertheless, the Worts have the Correnty II strain in a club yeast
bank (in cryogenics right now ;-). I last used it with a cyser.
- --gk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #591, 9 April 1996
From: Michael Vezie <dv@best.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 08:18:26 -0700
Ralph Reed wrote:
>suggestions. The easiest way that I know of to produce an accurate amount
>of carbonation is to ferment all the way to dryness and then add a
>measured amount of sugar. For champagne making, I add 4 grams of sucrose
That's all good and fine, but I'm looking for something sweet, not dry.
But I like your idea for controlled carbonation. I suppose it won't work
if there is too much alcohol for the yeast (then it won't matter how much
sugar you put in there (until it starts to, by it's own volume, lower the
alcohol level). In that case, I guess adding juice (side note; what's the
difference between apple juice and unfermented apple cider?) to lower the
alcohol level, and increase the sugar level is probably the thing to do.
Then, Kurt Schilling wrote:
>In order to stop active ferment, you have a number of options.
> Option 2: Pastuerize the must at 165 dF for 10 minutes to kill the yeast.
> Option 3: Ferment you cider with a medium alcohol tolerant strain of
>yeast in order to leave some residual sugar in the must. Sulfite, rack,
>prime and bottle with fresh yeast for carbonated cider.
I suppose I could do Option 3, but instead of sulfiting, pasteurize it.
That would kill all the yeast, and I would have to add more yeast to it.
I would probably also have to prime it, not just with a little concentrated
sugar, but also enough juice so that the alcohol level goes down enough
to allow subsequent fermentation.
Is there any need to use sulfites after pasteurization? I can't see any...
Thanks to all for all your help with this.
In Christ,
Michael
------------------------------
Subject: priming sugar
From: Wallinger <wawa@datasync.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 07:04:42 -0500
> Does anybody in this newsgroup have a good reference book that=20
>explains this? It would be nice to have a recipe in cups and gallons =
for=20
>those folks without scales reading in grams.
>
> ralph
my experience with corn sugar for priming beer is that measuring by =
volume can be a very inaccurate way to get a desired carbonation level. =
6 ounces is fairly standard for beer priming, yet this may range from =
3/4 cup to 1 cup by volume depending on how it 'packs' in the measuring =
cup. my suggestion would be to purchase a small postage scale for =
measuring priming sugar by weight to improve the repeatability of your =
corn sugar additions.
wade
pascagoula, mississippi
------------------------------
Subject: Getting some carbonation in Cider
From: Alson Kemp <kempal@ECE.ORST.EDU>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 09:53:26 -0700 (PDT)
Seems like a rather difficult topic!, so I'll have a try at it.
How's about using some low-alcohol yeast (ale, lager?). Ferment
until the little beasties stop fermenting, then bottle. There should
still be fermentation that goes on after the yeasties go dormant, since
there will always be a few million yeasties who can ferment to a high
alcohol level.
This way, a very slow, tailing-off ferment will carbonate the
bottles...
BOOM! Baby, BOOM!
- --------------
Alson R. Kemp III kempal@ece.orst.edu
"On Justice and on friendship, there is no price, but there are
established credit limits."
-The Tick
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End of Cider Digest #592
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