Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #0625
Subject: Cider Digest #625, 17 November 1996
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #625 17 November 1996
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #624, 10 November 1996 (Brian Dixon)
Champage yeast. (Duff Hickman)
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available for anonymous FTP at ftp.stanford.edu
in pub/clubs/homebrew/cider.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #624, 10 November 1996
From: Brian Dixon <briand@hpcvsgen.cv.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 96 14:07:42 PST
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: E. coli again
> From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
> Date: 10 Nov 96 09:04:25 MST (Sun)
>
> A couple of people have asked me (re my note in the last digest) whether E.
> coli is a danger in fermented cider--the usual understanding being that the
> alcohol should kill off such critters. Quite honestly, I have no idea.
> I'm hoping that somebody on the list with some knowledge of microbiology,
> pathology and such will chime in with an answer. (Side thought: There's
> more than just the question of whether the bacteria survive; we also need
> to know whether they produce toxins that would remain.) Anybody know?
>
> It wouldn't matter to me if the fermentation did kill off E.coli, because
> I'm in the habit of tasting the cider all along the way--the raw juice, or
> if I take a hydrometer reading, or when I rack. So even if the finished
> cider were OK (and I don't know whether it would be), I don't want to take
> chances with the raw juice or partially-fermented stages.
> - ---
> Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
>
An expert that recently posted to rec.crafts.brewing stated that e. coli
can live in beer and similar anaerobic environments such as cider. The
"no know pathogens can survive in beer" quote comes from people who may
know of some risk but choose not to verbalize it because they want to
popularize beer brewing at home. They feel safe because there are no
records of anyone ever having gotten an e. coli infection from beer.
It important to note that the environment in beer and cider does inhibit
the growth of most bacteria, and that includes e. coli. Infections would
most likely be low at the most. AND, since most bacteria in the e. coli
family are not harmful (you already have them in your gut), the risk that
you get one of the few that present you with a risk of death is extremely
low. Apple juice and cider coming from windfalls have higher risk of
carrying e. coli bacteria if the orchard is a multi-use orchard acting as
a stock pasture at the same time. Apple juice, because it is a good
growth medium, has a much higher risk of having an e. coli infection than
cider. The bottom line is that beer and cider makers probably don't have
to worry much about it, but you should always practice excellent sanitation
measures, which includes not using downfalls from orchards where animals
roam and not doing things like handling fresh uncooked meats while
setting up your cider or when handling apples (etc) or when brewing either.
David Miller in "The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing" specifically states
that e. coli strains of bacteria are anaerobit and can live in environments
like brewed and fermented beer (just in case anyone wants a published
reference). I'm not aware of any publications that state something similar
for cider, but it is not very different than fermented beer as a growth
environment.
Brian
------------------------------
Subject: Champage yeast.
From: duff@tam2000.tamu.edu (Duff Hickman)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 08:01:30 +0200
How cold will champagne yeast ferment down to? 60F? 40F? How about white
wine yeast?
Thanks,
- -Duff
- ----------------------------------
Duff Hickman
College Station, TX
- ----------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #625
*************************
