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Cider Digest #0649
Subject: Cider Digest #649, 22 February 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #649 22 February 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
sweetening (Dick Dunn)
secondary cider (PickleMan)
Grafts wanted Please (DCAREY@ENDVM1.VNET.IBM.COM)
Re: Cider Digest #648, 18 February 1997 (Steve Daughhetee)
Cider Digest #648, 18 February 1997 (Andrew LEA)
Re: Cider Digest #648, 18 February 1997 (William J. Rhyne)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: sweetening
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 18 Feb 97 17:49:41 MST (Tue)
bmartins@acme.highpoint.edu (Beth Martinson) wrote:
> ...I'm ready to bottle. The big question is: Am I allowed to
> add up to a cup of sugar syrup or some sweetener prior to bottling to
> sweeten the batch? I'm sure the yeast is dead by now...
It's probably *not* dead, just dormant. Big difference. When yeast run
out of sugar to eat, they just kick back. If you add sugar, they'll wake
up and get going again. What you'll end up with is likely not a sweet
cider, but a sparkling one...and if you used that much sugar syrup, it
could be dangerously carbonated.
>...No activity for
> weeks... so no need to worry about explosions I wouldn't think...
Wrong!
Just to illustrate, from a bit of folly of my own past: I made a mead
which I thought had fermented until the yeast had been killed off by the
alcohol level. [Note that this wouldn't happen with a cider.] It had
fallen clear and the gravity was stable for three weeks when I bottled.
I neglected to stabilize it at bottling. A month after bottling, a test
bottle was fine, uncarbonated. But at four months after bottling I noticed
a bulging bottlecap. Yes, fermentation had slowly restarted, and over a
period of several months had managed to produce quite a bit of carbonation.
And note that this was after the mead seemed "still" for some seven weeks.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd at talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
------------------------------
Subject: secondary cider
From: PickleMan <wrp2@axe.humboldt.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 23:38:07 -0800 (PST)
Beth,
As many will tell you, don't add any sweetener. You can add 3/4-1cup of
corn sugar (Dextrose), but thats it. While you may not see yeast, they
are in there. I bottled a mead over a year in the carbouy and had some
gusher bottles due to trying to sweeten it. I just stuck them all in the
fridge. Thats about the only way to get sweet, carbonated, bottled cider.
You sweeten to taste, add 3/4cup sugar and bottle. Then, check after a
week, and ever few days after that to see if proper carbonation has been
attained. If it has, throw the remaining bottles in the fridge. This
will not stop fermentation, but should slow it enough to allow you to
finish off the cider before any bottle get to the point of excessive
foaming or explosions(how many explosions is excessive?). Not sure if
this works if you use lager yeast.
There are many ways to sweeten cider, but I hope this is what you were
asking.
PickleMan
------------------------------
Subject: Grafts wanted Please
From: DCAREY@ENDVM1.VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 08:40:26 EST
Just getting an orchard started...would like some grafting scions from
cider varities .....Please keep me in mind during your spring pruning!
Already it is 50 degrees here in upstate NY.....thanks, DAN
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #648, 18 February 1997
From: Steve Daughhetee <sdd6@cornell.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:50:44 -0500
Beth Martinsen writes:
> I need advise..... I have finished the secondary fermentation phase
>of my cider (2 5-gallon jugs with a cork have been sitting for about 2
>monthes now). I'm ready to bottle. The big question is: Am I allowed to
>add up to a cup of sugar syrup or some sweetener prior to bottling to
>sweeten the batch?
You could add the sugar, but it would likely end up sparkling and dry (or
explosive, depending on bottles) rather than sweet. The only way to be
assured of a sweet cider when starting with a dry cider is to add potassium
sorbate with your sugar (as far as I know). Yeast are quite remarkable in
their ability to come back to life when fed.
PickelMan asks about age...
I usually consider age from the beginning of fermentation. Bulk ageing and
bottle ageing both change the character of the wine.
In my cellar, ciders smooth out faster in the carboy. This is probably due
to the presence of some lees, as I usually age in the secondary fermenter
(don't rack until just before bottling). For ciders this can be more than
a year, so the freshly bottled wines certainly don't taste "young."
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Digest #648, 18 February 1997
From: Andrew LEA <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:56:55 -0500
In Digest #648, Ifor Williams asked
>> I was wondering whether there is such a thing as a "gravity
>>profile" of juice running off from the pulp. We sometimes
>>leave a pressing overnight an get an extra 10% or so of juice
>>out of the pulp. I have not measured the Gravity, but does
>>anyone know whether this would be significantly
>>weaker/stronger than, say, the first 10% run off?
I've tried to measure this on a number of occasions, and the answer seems
to be 'it all depends'. Usually the free-run juice is a point or two
higher, and sometimes it's the later press juice, but in any case the
differences are so small they're virtually within the limits of
experimental error. [Funnily enough I've just been reading the Long Ashton
Report for the year 1910 where similar observations are made!] What MAY
happen is that the ripest fruit or the ripest parts of the fruit (i.e.
those growing on the south side of the tree) yield up their juice sooner
than the less ripe parts because their structure is also softer. Hence the
initial gravity is higher. In mixed loads of fruit then if the higher
sugar varieties are softer they will give a higher gravity to the initial
juice. This will depend on ripening and storage conditions. But there may
well be cases in a mixed load where a cultivar with a high yield pressure
is also the one with the highest sugar content (russets, perhaps, which
tend to have a very dry structure?) - so in that event, you'd get higher
gravities towards the end of the press cycle.
I think these effects are of little practical importance. What is much more
relevant, in my view, is to ensure that the apples are fully ripe before
pressing and that ALL the starch has been converted into sugar. Two or
three week's of fruit storage can easily gain you 2% sugar. Of course the
flavour is generally improved too. This aspect is now so much of a concern
to the large cidermakers (who tend to mill fruit underripe for logistical
reasons) that I know for a fact that they're looking at treating the starch
in the unripe JUICE with an added amylase to break it down and thereby get
the extra sugar yields. This is trickier than it sounds because the starch
in apples is in the form of granules which are resistant to enzyme action
in their isolated state. I'm sure many of you, like me, have had the
experience of pressing early season fruit and getting a thick white layer
of starch drop to the bottom of the juice vat in a matter of just an hour
or two.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
(andrew_lea@compuserve.com)
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #648, 18 February 1997
From: rhyne@pop.winterlan.com (William J. Rhyne)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:02:00 -0800
RE: The question regarding adding sugar or syrup after fermentation
Here at Sonoma Cyder we are experimenting with the French methods where you
can add a dosage. One batch that we did last year fermented the dosage so
we ended up with a very sparkling dry cider (similar to champagne). This
time we are attempting to improve our pasteurization technique so that we
can stop the secondary fermentation and retain some residual sweetness.
Re: "big ciders"
We are using fresh apple juice to sweeten the cider and to dilute the
alcohol strength. Our apples are coming from Sonoma County growers and we
are looking for late picked crop so our sugar levels were very high this
last year. We are evaluating the different varieties and the cider
potential. This last fall, we fermented Johnathans, Greenings, Baldwin,
Granny Smith, Pippin, Arkansas Blacks, and Black Twig. The Black Twig
produced 9.4 % alcohol and the Baldwin produced 9.2 % alcohol. This is
stronger than we are hoping to produce but the cider tasted very
interesting, the best yet. We had Arkansas Blacks from two different
orchards and the apples were very different in size (one was smallish and
the others were large in size). The small ones produced 8.8 % alcohol and
large ones produced 9.0% alcohol. The pH ranged fromm 3.4 to 3.9 and Total
acidity ranged from 5.88 to 7.00 g/l. As far as final flavor, the Baldwin
seems to be the consensus so far.
We are going to continue to evaluate Northern California varieties this
next season and in the meantime, we have blended some together. We hope to
have the label done in the next couple of months and the commercial product
available for sale then. Right now we have about 50 cases of an apple/pear
blend and 75 cases of a pure apple blend. We will be bottling another 75
cases next month.
So many apples, so little time!
Aloha!
Bill Rhyne
===========================
Callie Konno
===========================
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End of Cider Digest #649
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