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Cider Digest #0562
Subject: Cider Digest #562, 29 October 1995
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #562 29 October 1995
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: alcohol tolerance / clearing question. (Joel Stave)
Re: Bad Cider (oliphant@td2cad.intel.com)
Re: Cider Digest #561, 26 October 1995 (Michael S Ferdinando)
Re: Carbonation Problems (wegeng.xkeys@xerox.com)
RE: Zeigler's apple cider (Art Steinmetz)
bottling (MR WADE A WALLINGER)
RE: When to bottle, secondary fermentation (John Faulks)
Re: Cider Digest #561, 26 October 1995 (AltonPress@aol.com)
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Subject: Re: alcohol tolerance / clearing question.
From: Joel Stave <stave@ctron.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 11:49:20 -0400
James C Anderson <JCLARKA@macc.wisc.edu> mentions that 12% alcohol cider
doesn't ferment while 10% seems to work, whereas this didn't used to be a
problem for him.
This is pure speculation on my part, but I have heard of yeast suppliers
changing strains without telling anyone (and keeping the same name). Could
this have happened and the new strain isn't quite as alcohol tolerant?
As an aside, you mention 12 oz bottles and a 55 gallon cider run in the same
paragraph. Do I understand that you bottle the *entire* run in 12 oz bottles?
That's a lot of bottling. How long does it take?
Unrelated question:
I've notice that my ciders and apple wines always clear *much* faster than any
of my other wines and meads. Does anyone else see this? Can anyone explain
it?
- --
Joel Stave
stave@ctron.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bad Cider
From: oliphant@td2cad.intel.com
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 09:16:23 -0800
I'd be leary of just relaxing and riding it out. My experience
with cloves, in meads and wines, is that it never mellows. If
you have too much clove then over time it will become more and
more noticable as the other components in the wine age and smooth
out. Ten crushed cloves is a LOT of cloves. A few go a long way.
I also did not usually crush them. You might be able to save the
cider with more apple juice, but it might take doubling or tripling
the volume. Perhaps, someone else could speak on the typical ratio
of cloves to cider.
Steve Oliphant
oliphant@td2cad.intel.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #561, 26 October 1995
From: msf2@cornell.edu (Michael S Ferdinando)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 12:47:04 -0400
Krehbiel@ix.netcom.com (Greg Krehbiel) wrote:
- -[snip]-
>So now I have 3 gallons of cider/honey mixture not fermenting in the
>basement. I used fewer tablets than the recipe called for, but I noticed
>that Zeigler's cider already has preservatives. What do you think? Have the
>preservatives killed the yeast? Is this batch hopeless?
>
Unfortunately, if the cider you used has preservatives in it, you might as
well pour this must down the drain. A very small amount of preservative in
cider will inhibit yeast growth to the point that it is not fermentable.
If you live anywhere near an apple orchard, I would suggest going there and
buying some fresh-pressed cider, which has no preservatives added. Around
where I live, the cider sold in supermarkets all contain preservatives.
Orchards seem to be the only place you can buy unpreserved cider.
Michael S Ferdinando
Production Control Assistant--Cornellcard
Cornell University Office of the Bursar, 260 Day Hall, Ithaca NY 14853
607-255-5980 // msf2@cornell.edu
"I would give all my fame for a pot of ale and safety."
--Shakespeare, _Henry V_, act III scene 2
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Carbonation Problems
From: wegeng.xkeys@xerox.com
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:29:57 PDT
James C Anderson says:
>I then clear the cider a bit by gravity only
>and bottle it with 1 tsp. of sugar per 12 oz. bottle to get a sparkle in the
>bottle. For all these years I have gotten just what I was shooting for; but
the
>last two years I got little of no secondary fermentation. I lowered the
alcohol
>content to 10% this year thinking that perhaps I was killing the yeast at 12%.
I have encountered this problem in past when making beer (where the alcohol %
was much lower). My solution was to mix a package of fresh dry yeast into the
beer right before bottling. That solved the problem, and I have also used this
technique for mead and cider with good sucess.
You might be interested in my general method for producing a sparkling cider.
When I'm ready to bottle I rack the total volume into a new container (usually
a carboy) which already contains 3/4 cup of sugar and one package of yeast,
both premixed with a small quantity of water (to disolve the sugar and proof
the yeast). The racking process seems to mix the yeast/sugar mixture with the
cider pretty well. Then I bottle into clean, empty bottles and cap with beer
bottle caps. This is a bit easier than trying to add sugar and yeast to each
individual bottle.
Of course, this method is probably only practical if you ferment in small
(i.e., 5 gallon) containers.
/Don
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Zeigler's apple cider
From: asteinm@pipeline.com (Art Steinmetz)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 10:59:09 -0400
Did you wait at least 24 hours from the point the campden tablets were
completely dissolved before adding the yeast?
Preservatives are bad but even preservative-added cider will eventually
turn so you should get some action eventually. What's your temperature.
Bring the cider in the house if it's outside to see if that gooses it.
We have Zieglers in the supermarket but I use locally milled stuff w/o
additives.
- -- Art Steinmetz NYC/NJ
------------------------------
Subject: bottling
From: GCTD31A@prodigy.com (MR WADE A WALLINGER)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 14:55:39 EDT
I have made three batched of cider (1 gal each time)
with the fourth in the fermenter (1 gal glass jug). So
far I have bottled each batch as I do with homebrew:
priming it and bottling in Grolsch bottles for carbon-
ation. I'm considering, however, simplifying this by
settling for a still cider. Would I run into problems if
I simply rack the cider off of the settled yeast into a
clean gallon jug, and left it at that? Oxidation
perhaps (which I could solve by blowing CO2 into
the jug or by consuming it quickly :=))? Is gelatin
a suitable clarifier for cider?
------------------------------
Subject: RE: When to bottle, secondary fermentation
From: John Faulks <74650.1072@compuserve.com>
Date: 28 Oct 95 05:02:55 EDT
It's funny how I'm in the same discussion on the mead digest. How long
do I keep my cider in the carboy? A month, two, or till it clears up?
My cider schedule usually has me bottling after 2-3 months in the carboy. This
gives it plenty of time to settle.
Has anyone ever used ale yeast? I'm trying two side by side. One with
Doric Ale Yeast and the other with montrachet.
I have used coopers ale yeast, red star champagne and Edme ale yeasts. All work
well. I thought the ale yeasts produced a drier character which was a suprise.
The champagne yeast had an overall champagne character, but it left a ton of
apple flavor.
For all these years I have gotten just what I was shooting for; but the
last two years I got little of no secondary fermentation.
Obviously something has changed. I would add a little fresh yeast slurry from a
starter when you add the priming sugar.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #561, 26 October 1995
From: AltonPress@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 19:01:10 -0400
James C Anderson <JCLARKA@macc.wisc.edu wrote:
> my partner and I make labels each year for our cider. On each
we use a relevant work of art having to do with apples and a piece of
poetry...<
I have used Bartlet's Quotations--available online. Also, I have found
various FTP files via internet search (Apples, fruit, wine, orchard, etc. as
key words) with good quotations.
I would like somebody to address the issue of labeling. I have used Avery
labels through a laser printer, but this is expensive and not very
attractive. Is there a cheaper, more attractive way to print labels for our
cider?
Thanks for any thoughts.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #562
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