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Cider Digest #0521
Subject: Cider Digest #521, 13 February 1995
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #521 13 February 1995
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Venture (AltonPress@aol.com)
catching up with FAQs (Dick Dunn)
boiling bottled cider/beer (Lenny Garfinkel)
A Return, and a first taste (John White)
wild cider (Mark Taratoot)
cider sweetness survey results (Greg Appleyard)
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may be incomplete for a while.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Venture
From: AltonPress@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 12:11:38 -0500
I recently put a notice here about a partner wanted for a commercial cider
venture. Thanks to you I found someone in my local area and we have formed
Rush River Cellars, a venture to create and market hard cider. Philip DiFalco
(a Cider Digest reader/contributor) will be the brewmaster. We have
constructed a "test bed" of 100+ gallons and will be experimenting over the
winter and spring. By the fall harvest in my small orchard, we hope to have
our mix and methods established and to produce our first small commercial
quantities. We met recently with the owner of the Alpenglow (non-alcoholic
sparkling cider) company, who was quite helpful. BTW, his product is quite
good--dry and refreshing.
We invite all Cider Digest readers to write or visit when they are in the
area (Washington, VA; about 65 miles from Washington, DC. We will keep you
posted on our progress. Your thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
Keep up the good work with CD. It is a "must read" and a very friendly corner
of cyberspace.
Philip Johnson
Rush River Cellars
PO Box 449
Washington, VA 22747
------------------------------
Subject: catching up with FAQs
From: rcd@raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 7 Feb 95 23:27:24 MST (Tue)
I've just sent off notes to get the listings for the mead and cider digests
corrected in the rec.crafts.brewing FAQ. If any of you are aware of other
FAQs that list addresses for mead or cider, would you please either notify
the keeper of the FAQ or let me know so I can do so? I'd like to clean up
the old references to x.org and eklektix.com within the next month or so,
and get everything pointed at talisman.com.
---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA
...When did "ergonomic" become a synonym for "right-handed"?
------------------------------
Subject: boiling bottled cider/beer
From: Lenny Garfinkel <lenny@zeus.datasrv.co.il>
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:15:37 +0200 (IST)
I have yet to see a good method for getting carbonated, sweet, hard
cider short of using lactose, malto-dextrin, saccharine, aspartame,
etc. Has anyone tried overpriming with sugar, and then simply boiling to
kill the yeast after a few days? Will crown caps, and the already
pressurized liquid stand up to the additional pressure? If not, which is
more likely to give, the cap or the bottle (explode)?
Lenny
_________________________________________________________________
Dr. Leonard Garfinkel | Internet: lenny@zeus.datasrv.co.il
Bio-Technology General | Office Phone: 972-8-381256
Kiryat Weizmann | Home Phone: 972-8-451505
Rehovot, Israel | FAX: 972-8-409041
-----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Subject: A Return, and a first taste
From: John White <johnjohn@unholy1.caltech.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 09:49:54 -0800 (PST)
It's been two years since I was on the cider digest. During that
time, I finally got around to trying to make my first cider.
It was right after the new year, so I'm out of season. The circumstances
were terrible. I never got off my butt to order the whitbread yeast
that I promised myself I'd do. I live in southern california (Pasadena)
and have yet to locate a good source for cider in the first place.
However, for christmas, I received one of those "brewbags," which
I had heard about, but never tried. It was a Canadian pale ale,
and came with a packet of "Brewing Yeast."
That's right, I can hear the groans already. It was a dry yeast,
so I dropped it in some starter (I used DME), waited for the krausen
to fall, and pitched half into the brew bag, half into my cider.
Ahh yes, the cider. Remember, I said I couldn't find a source?
Albertsons' house brand: Janet Lee Cider. You're dying out there,
aren't you? The bottle says 100% Cider from concentrate!
I used five gallons of the stuff, added 4# dark brown sugar, and boiled
the lot with 12 cloves and 8 cinnamon sticks. Boiled very briefly to
get the spice flavors out. The whole heating/cooling process took
well over an hour, with the boil lasting about 5 minutes. As it was,
I almost drank the stuff right then and there. It smelled delicious,
with the dark brown sugar adding a very dark appearance.
I put it while still hot in the primary (glass carboy), and helped
the cooling by wrapping wet towels around the carboy, and keeping
them wet. When it cooled to about 70F, I pitched the yeast.
Blowoff happened in about 6 hours, lasting over 24. I had a brisk
primary fermentation for over 2 weeks, after which I racked to the
secondary.
At this point, I added 2# dark brown sugar dissolved in about 1/3 a
gallon of boiling water. Actually, I racked into a bucket, added
sugar, cleaned out the primary, and siphoned back into it. Got a
bit of sediment out. At that point, it was still very cloudy and dark.
The flavor had definite wine characteristics instead of the
fizzy, sweet, hard-cider that I had remembered from childhood. I
wasn't really suprised, as I figured the alcohol content was much
higher.
It was in the secondary for 3 weeks and 2 days, during which the
airlock bubbled rarely, and cider cleared beautifully. I was still
getting bubbles on the top of the cider, but I could see my hand
through the cider and the carboy, so I decided to bottle.
I primed with half a cup of dark brown sugar, dissolved in a quart
of boiling water.
Yield: 40x12oz bottles. 4x22.4oz bottles (had some Kirin's about
a year ago. Nice stuff).
And here's the 72 hour report.
I'm opening a 12oz bottle to test for carbonation and seeing the
results of brief conditioning upon the flavor.
It's a nice bottle: a longneck which originally held Dunkle
Weizen Ale by the Williamette Valley Brewing Compay in Portland.
I don't remember drinking it. Too bad. It's slightly taller
than the Sam Adam's bottles which abound in my rooms; perfect for
a test. I hold it up to the light, and am struck by the clarity
of the fluid within. I can see straight through, and out the
other side easily. It seems that only the dark-brown of the
bottle itself is impeding the light. I compare it to a Sam
Adams Honey Porter, which I have in my fridge. Yup, much clearer.
I'm teasing myself and you.
I angle the bottle, and set the cap against the old Coca-cola
opener which some Caltech student of old mounted on the wall, and
push down. The Brewer's Best bottlecap pops off with an
abbreviated hiss..
I take a sip stright from the bottle; It's smooth, very smooth,
and not sour as I had feared. Slightly carbonated, and slightly
sweet; We're only 72 hours away from bottling... I can feel the
warmth in my stomach spreading... Yes... very nice.
Now, I pour.
A nice, chocolate color. I can see the CO2 fizzing slightly,
but again, no heavy carbonation.
A sip.
It does taste of a sweetened wine. The brown sugar needs time
to settle in and mix it's sweetened characteristic with the
cider's flavor. It's not too dry, again, one of my fears, but
the sweetness needs to blend with the flavors more.
A sip.
The tartness is there, settling against the back of my tongue.
As I concentrate on it, it lasts longer, becoming more enjoyable.
This is definitely more of a wine-tasting experience, though
much smoother than the cheap whites; Not quite as tart. As
the tartness fades, I'm left with the sweetness along the front
of my mouth. Wow.
A sip.
Very very smooth. Dangerously easy to swallow. I recall a
Dennis Leary line: It used to be that in order to drink, you
had to make that face at the flavor. I'm not making a face.
I'm getting a very strong clove flavor that I'm not wild about.
There are those out there who have said that they find it
difficult to believe that something could have too much of a
clove flavor. A bit much for my taste, but very bearable.
:)
A sip.
Smooth.
A sip.
As silk.
A sip.
I'm distracted by a visitor, and when I sit down to the computer
again, the cider is gone. Where? Inside...
So, my friends, I have a question. Are there those out there
who have sweetened their ciders by adding sugar at the point
of racking to the secondary? If so, has the seetness blended
well with the other flavors? I'm curious to know how others
feel on this subject. I'm concerned that the blending isn't
as complete as it should be.
Overally, I found the experience to be quite easy. Amazingly
so. I wonder where I can get some quality cider? Anyone in
Southern California know? I've heard rumors that Trader Joe's
carries an unpasturized, unfiltered cider. Any truth to that?
I'm waiting for your responces. Any critiques besides the obvious
ones?
John
--
John White
johnjohn@unholy1.caltech.edu
------------------------------
Subject: wild cider
From: Mark Taratoot <taratoot@PEAK.ORG>
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 12:51:25 -0800 (PST)
Greetings all.
My cyser for the year is well underway, but I recently came upon a
windfall (pun somewhat intended) and wanted any input (notice I don't use
the term "advice" here) from you other cider makers.
I am working in a cooperative grocery store, and one of the brands of
local cider we carry has had a problem of late... it is spontaneously
fermenting in the jug in the cooler. After we get credit for these jugs,
they are just dumped. I hate to see this, and am now in posession of
three gallons of bubling cider (and I expect more in the near future).
I am letting these ciders go to see what happens. One of the best ciders
I ever made was from a wild ferment that came out just lovely.
My concern here is that the reason this cider is fermenting is
because the maker may have used windfall apples or other less than
optimal fruit in his pressing. Also, the press they use may not be as
clean as it should. I am considering using campdon and adding my own
yeast to at least two of these gallons to avoind having lots of cider
vinegar on hand in the near future. However, as I understand, campdon
only inhibits microbial action, it does not stop a ferment once
underway. Does anyone have contrary information? My gut feeling is to
keep each gallon separate and let them go on their own, that way if one
or so has been contaminated, perhaps they won't all be. If I satitize
them, I may combine them in a 5 gal carbouy to save space.
Comments are welcome to this digest or to me at taratoot@peak.org.
Thanks!
-mark
------------------------------
Subject: cider sweetness survey results
From: Greg Appleyard <gappleya@uoguelph.ca>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:46:15 -0400 (EDT)
Thanks to all those that replied to the survey.
Results:
2 of 7 respondents like their cider dry (SG 1.000 or less).
1 of 7 respondents like their cider nearly dry (1.010 or less)
4 of 7 respondents like their cider slightly sweet (1.010 to 1.015)
Those that like a dry cider simply ferment to dryness with a highly
attenuated yeast like a wine or champagne yeast. Those that like cider
nearly dry use a less attenuated ale yeast.
Those that like a slightly sweet cider each had a different stratagy with
common elements. The most common method was to ferment to dryness and
then sweeten. Here is where opinion differed. Addition of fermentable
sugars such as sucrose or apple juice was used at bottling to sweeten and
add carbonation with the caution that too much sugar would make bottle
grenades after a couple of months. The non-fermetable (?) sugar lactose
was mentioned as an alternative but it was reported to be only mildly
effective at sweetening and had a tendency to alter the "mouth-feel" of
the cider. To avoid this and artificial sweeteners (non-fermentable) it
was suggested that adding sugar or apple juice in combination with a
preservative (Na Benzoate) would sweeten and kill yeast, thus avoiding
the grenage scenario. One respondent speculated that another method for
killing yeast would be to heat pasturize the cider before sweetening,
although I am not sure what this would do to the flavour and alcohol
(which would boil off at 70 degrees C).
Thanks again to all those that responded to the survey,
and yes, my name really is Greg Appleyard.
I guess my love for cider is geneticly inherited... thats my excuse and
I'm sticking to it. :)
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #521
