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Cider Digest #0519
Subject: Cider Digest #519, 31 January 1995
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #519 31 January 1995
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Priming with Juice (prelim results) (David Vezie)
"No bubbles" (sdd6@cornell.edu)
Re: Cider Digest #518, 27 January 1995 (_Ralph Reed)
PET bottles, sun, lactose, temps (Charles Castellow)
White film (Pascal Mermillod)
Forced Carbonation ("Ron Sielinski")
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------------------------------
Subject: Priming with Juice (prelim results)
From: David Vezie <dv@xnet.ssl.Berkeley.Edu>
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 23:25:25 PST
I had 5 gallons of strong cider, and wanted to mellow it down a bit,
and still have some fizz.
I mixed 5:1 (best approximation) of cider and juice in a Grolsch bottle,
and let it sit on a top shelf in my kitchen for a week. It turned out
great! It had plenty of CO2 inside it when I opened it up, but the bottle
didn't foam up or anything. It had a FG of 1.000, and was very potent
(one bottle had me drunk, and I weigh >250#). Next week I mix in a gallon
of juice with the rest of it, and bottle it. I'll let it sit in the garage
for a few months, and I think it'll be very nice indeed (if it lasts that
long!).
------------------------------
Subject: "No bubbles"
From: sdd6@cornell.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:53:44 -0800
>I just started my first batch of cider, and I'm worried.
Try not to worry.
> it was bubbling
>right through my fermentation lock...
While messy, this need not be a big problem. You could have used a
blow-off tube until the fermentation slowed down (assuming there are no
"chunks" such as fruit which might plug the tube.
> when I racked to the
>secondary and attached the fermentation lock again, it didn't move the
>liquid in the lock at all. No bubbles.
I'll ask the obvious question first. Are you sure that the lock and
stopper are sealed and not cracked? If so, then how long have you stared
at it to see a bubble? If the water level in the lock is uneven, then I
wouldn't worry about it. You may have racked just after the end of
vigorous fermentation. Relax and ignore it for a few weeks.
___________________________________________________________________
Steve Daughhetee Department of
Biochemistry
sdd6@cornell.edu Cornell University
Biotechnology Building
Ithaca, NY
___________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #518, 27 January 1995
From: _Ralph Reed <reedr@ava.bcc.orst.edu>
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 09:16:09 -0800 (PST)
I have seen many questions on this group in the last few weeks
about sweet ciders. For sparkling ciders, the only solution appears to
be to pick some non-fermentable chemical, such as nutrasweet, or use
some partially-fermentable substance, such as malt extracts. However,
for ciders without bubbles, I have successfully used the same substance
that is used in most soft drinks to help prevent the fermentation of the
approximately 11 percent sugar in those products, namely sodium
benzoate. I was told by an employee of a major soft drink company that
they use one-half of one tenth percent of sodium benzoate (0.05
percent). I payed about 10 dollars for a pound of food grade
sodium benzoate at a pharmacy.
A year ago we tried making sweet cider by this method. We
weighed out various amounts of sugar and tried various levels and then
decided that we liked 2 percent sugar best. So we added that much to a
couple of gallons, added the sodium benzoate, and then capped it. A few
months later it tasted fine. I think that an interesting range to
try would be from 1 to 2 percent sugar.
Since any recipe such as this is anecdotal, I suggest that you
ask your pharmacist and your local homebrew shop about their
recommendations as to toxicities and recipes. [[[Are there any
soft drink employees on this group??]]] However, I found it to be
an easy solution to the problem of making sweet ciders at home, where
sterile bottling is next to impossible. I like it because sodium benzoate
has been used for a long time in the soft drink industry and also because
I like the taste of sugar and hate the taste of artificial sweeteners.
Happy fermenting,
ralph reed
------------------------------
Subject: PET bottles, sun, lactose, temps
From: charlie@halcyon.halcyon.com (Charles Castellow)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 10:52:02 PST
In Cider Digest #517, GubGuy@aol.com writes:
> Anyone have REAL experience with the long term effects of storage in PET
> bottles? Conventional wisdom says they are oxygen-permeable and therefore
I have left both cider and beer in PET bottles for up to a month. I
normally keg my beers and ciders, and sometimes put some in PET bottles
for transportation. I flush the bottles out with CO2 before filling to
lessen the likelyhood of oxidation. Beer consumed from the bottles seems
to lose very little if consumed within 3 or 4 days. I have left a pale
ale in a pet bottle for a month (refrigerated). It didn't appear oxidated,
but the hop character had all but disappered. The carbonation seems to
escape, also, but I kept hitting it with CO2 every couple of days (using
The Carbonator<tm>).
Last year I was experimenting with some VERY high gravity ciders. One in
particular was pretty harsh when put into the PET bottle, but actually
mellowed out quite well. Again, I noticed no oxidation, but more of a
mellowing affect. But if you weren't adding CO2 on a regular basis, as
I was, I can see where you might have a problem.
Also in Cider Digest #517, A. Sturdivant asks:
> I need a little help/reassurance regarding light struck cider. I brew
> beer and have one light, crisp batch of cider under my belt, and another
> going. My question is, do I need to protect the cider from light as I
> do beer? There are no hops in use, so assume I do not.
That is correct. The skunkiness in beer is a reaction of the hops to the
light. I don't know if anything else in the cider will react to light.
I haven't gone out of my way to protect my cider from light, and I haven't
noticed any off flavors. On the other hand, I usually just throw the
carboy into my (unheated) garage in a dark corner. Its easier to ignore
there. From my experience, cider doesn't need constant attention, and
possibly performs better if left alone for long periods.
In Cider Digest #518, Ted Burnell (BURNELLT@ropt1.am.wyeth.com) states:
> Jeff, another good sweetener that won't
> ferment is lactose. Maltodextrin can have
> an annoying "plastic" taste. I don't
> know if you'll be able to taste it
> though at the levels you would use. The
> English use lactose to sweeten some of
> their beers.
I have had good success using lactose. Since I usually use champagne
yeast, I normally get bone dry cider, so its not uncommon for me to
sweeten it up a little with some lactose.
Also in Cider Digest #518, Philip DiFalco <sxupjd@gds.fnma.com> asks:
> My root cellar's temperature is about 40^ F.
> What's the best temperature for cider's primary & secondary fermentation?
That would depend a lot on what yeast you are using. My garage is not
insulated, so I normally choose my yeast to match the garage temperature.
During the winter, I use Pasteur Champagne or Epernay II and make
a pretty strong cider at temperatures in the 30s-50s. During the summer,
I've used various ale yeasts to make a quicker, lower alcohol cider with
temperatures varying between the mid-50s up to the high 80s. (These
temperature variations are not intentional, but just a fact of life in
my garage at this time.)
-Charlie
Charles Castellow (charlie@halcyon.com)
/--------------------------------------------------\
| "The goal of every engineer is to retire without |
| getting blamed for a major catastrophe." |
| Dilbert (Scott Adams) |
\--------------------------------------------------/
------------------------------
Subject: White film
From: mermillo@tours.inra.fr (Pascal Mermillod)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 08:33:48 +0100
Hi folks,
I'm a french cider-making beginner. As described by Don, I also had a white
thin film making some slowly growing bubbles on the top of the cider in
some of my barrels during (more exactly at the end) natural first
fermentation. I was very anxious with that cause there was a faint acetic
smell around there (and I have done 150 l !). I removed the film during
each racking and maintained the barrels full. At the end, the cider was
very clear with a very nice taste. Now it's bottled and I hope it will be
OK (as mentioned by Greg, no more aerobic life possible). Answer within few
weeks (if the bottles don't explode!). Good luck Don.
Pascal
---------------------
Pascal Mermillod
INRA
Station PRMD
37380 Nouzilly
=46rance
tel : +33 47 42 79 20
fax : +33 47 42 77 43
------------------------------
Subject: Forced Carbonation
From: "Ron Sielinski" <sielinr@deathstar.cris.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 19:21:38 +0000
BURNELLT writes:
>You could always kill all
>the yeast, add whatever sweetener you
>wanted and force carbonate, but that would
>require a keg. Whatever you try, let us
>know how it turns out.
What, exactly, is the technique for force carbonation? Until now I've
stuck to bare-bones recipes (even to the point of using wild yeasts).
And I've always just thrown in more sugar at bottling time to
naturally carbonate. Thing is, squimish drinkers generally shun the
resulting sediment. On one hand, I'm dismayed. Seems kind of like
dying tomatos red. On the other hand, I'd like more control over the
final carbonation. Sometimes the sugar technique works good, other
times not. (And wouldn't mind a livlier drink myself.)
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #519
