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Cider Digest #0484
Subject: re: sulphite free wine
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:48:40 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <hersh@x.org>
>While out driving this weekend, I stumbled (no not literally :-) ) onto a
>winery which produces sulphite free products of quite decent quality. I
>remember reading about people who are looking for these types of things and
>decided to pass the info along. The owner explained that they are one of the
>only wineries in the world that carefully washes their hand picked grapes
>before crushing to eliminate the need for sulphiting to kill all the nasties.
what a sales pitch. No amount of hand washing will eliminate the reason
sulphite is used. Sulphite is used because there are bacteria which can
produce toxins in wine. Large manufacturers of wine obviously have a bigger
problem with this potentially occurring, in that they simply produce more.
A small winery probably has pretty good quality control and an ability to
sample each batch produced. Also one large batch that escapes quality control
can be much more dangerous than smaller ones.
Also readers shouldn't take this to imply that occurrence of toxic wine is
particularly common. However it is possible. It is therefore mostly for these
reasons (i.e. to completely eliminate this problem) that sulphite is utilized.
To some extent a small vineyard is actually risking its business by not using
sulphite, however I personally applaud efforts such as these.
JaH
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Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 21:05:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Landman <jasonl@america.net>
Subject: Mold - Ug!
Hey, cider-people (doesn't quite have the same ring as "Trekkers," does it?)
I posted this question to beer-l, but let me as y'all: A buddy of mine
brewed a batch of cider in July (a Georgian July, no less). After three
weeks, there was a small layer of mold starting to grow on top. He
swears he sanitized everything, but I'm not so sure. Any thoughts? What
is the best way to sanitize a 5-gallon carbouy? Is the type of cider you
use important (as far as mold is concerned). Thank you very much for
your assistance.
Jason Landman
jason@america.net
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Date: 17 Oct 94 22:22:53 MDT (Mon)
From: rcd@raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: cherries and chokecherries
From: Ralph Snel <ralph@astro.lu.se> responded to Ted Burnell:
> > On another note, I have a line on a ton of choke cherries. Anyone ever
> > combine these with cider?...
...
> But no kidding, I've done a similar thing, but first I made cherry juice
> using a steam extractor, and used fermenting cider as a base...[details]
...
> By all means, give it a try and combine them with apples. I found that
> I like it best when there's some residual sugar. Cherries and apple go just
> great together.
Careful...
Cherries and chokecherries are very different. (I'm guessing, from Ralph's
.se address, that he may not have encountered chokecherries...pardon the
presumption implied there.)
The most obvious difference is that chokecherries are very astringent
(hence the name). I don't know how much sugar or acid you get out of
them. (I suspect they're low in sugar but moderate-to-high in acid; the
astringency makes it hard to tell by taste. Anybody done a total-acid
check on chokecherry juice?) It would be interesting to combine choke-
cherries and apples, especially in the US where most of the apples or
juice available to most of us will be low in tannin. It's just that you'd
want to take a different approach to using chokecherries than to regular
sour cherries (mainly in starting with smaller quantities).
Do chokecherries have enough sugar to ferment up to a reasonable level of
alcohol--at least a few percent? If not, it raises the question of whether
to try to blend juices before fermenting, _vs_ fermenting and blending
afterward. (Blending after fermenting obviously gives you more control,
but it only works if the chokecherry can ferment enough to be reasonably
stable on its own.)
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:20:02 -0500
From: prh4@cornell.edu (Peter R. Hoover)
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #483 Mon Oct 17 18:00:07 EDT 1994
John Ross writes:
>Anybody have any experience making coder out of pears? Somebody just called
>me and said he's got a tree-full of pears "sorta like Barletts, but not as
>sweet."
>
>I've blended a few pears into my apple cider when I've had them, but I've
>never made a straight perry. Unless somebody tells me differently, I'll run
>the pears through my cider press and use some of the working hard cider
>gurgling away in my cellar as a "starter" for fermentation. I'm assuming
>that I can treat the pears more-or-less like apples.
>
>I'd expect to get a cider that's on the sweet side, but it might ferment
>into something interesting. Since it's free fruit, I've got nothing to
>lose.
>
>Anybody want to offer any advice?
I've made pear cider for several years, alone and blended with apples and
other fruits. I made about 55 gallons last year that was mostly pears, a
few apples, some sour cherries, and prunes (and cracked prune pits). Very
tasty. For pears alone, I'd recommend that you put in some fruit that tend
toward the acidic or astringent, as pears tend to be fairly bland when
compared with apples. I use about a third to a fourth of a small, hard,
very sweet, but extremely astringent pear that grows locally. Another
possibility is putting in some pit kernels of peaches, apricots, or prunes,
to give a bit of an almond flavor. Have to watch this latter, however, as
too much of same can be poisonous (prussic acid). As a rule of thumb, I use
no more than a cup of such pit kernels for a barrel (55 gallons).
Peter Hoover
prh4@cornell.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 10:49:00 UTC
From: t.duchesneau@genie.geis.com
Subject: Contaminated cider ??
After reading John Faulks reply to my question about comtaminated cider, I
guess I must have left something out. This cider has been in secondary
several weeks, it spent 11 days in primary and had SG of .995 when it was
racked. The suspected contamination was first noticed after about a week in
secondary when it started bubbling again.
...Tom
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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 11:25:51 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <hersh@x.org>
Subject: cider book info
someone was looking for the following info recently.
Thanks to John T Faulks for posting this in another forum where I
cut and pasted it from
Sweet & Hard Cider, by Annie Proulx & Lew
Nichols. It is the bible of cider making, covering all facets of this hobby
in the way of Papazian and Miller. My copy was ordered in by my local
bookstore who charged me list $11.95. The publisher is Garden Way
Publishing, Pownal, Vermont 05261, ISBN O-88266-352-6
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts
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