Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #0364
Subject: Cider Digest #364 Wed Nov 3 18:00:03 EST 1993
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 18:00:03 -0500
From: cider-request@x.org (Are you SURE you want to send it HERE?)
Cider Digest #364 Wed Nov 3 18:00:03 EST 1993
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Jay Hersh, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: yeast nutrients (Ralph Snel)
re:yeast nutrients (R.) Cavasin" <cav@bnr.ca>
re:lend me a clue(campden) (R.) Cavasin" <cav@bnr.ca>
Clearing agents (Chuck Stringer)
Send articles for submission to cider@x.org
Send subscribe, unsubscribe and address change requests to cider-request@x.org
Raw digest archives available for ftp only on export.x.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 6:56:51 MET
From: Ralph Snel <ralph@astro.lu.se>
Subject: Re: yeast nutrients
Greg wrote:
> ... Could the nitrogen be limiting? Does anyone
> have a suggestion or comment about yeast nutrients?
Apples contain quite a lot of nutrients, of all the kinds that yeast
like. If yeast does not reproduce it is (usually) not because of
the lack of nutrients. Eceptions are flower wines, meads and perhaps
vegetable wines. In those wines you need extra nutrients (even though
from my own experience I know that it's possible to make mead without
extra nutrients, it just takes more time with more risk of infection).
Except nutrients there is one more essential thing for yeast: vitamines.
I have a package of vitamin B1 that I occasionally use for extra boosts
when I make mead. I think the tablets are 10mg vitamin, with glucose to
make them big enough the hold in your fingers, smaller that pea-sized.
They recommend 1 tablet per gallon.
I've never had any need for them with apples though.
Ralph
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 10:02:00 +0000
From: "Rick (R.) Cavasin" <cav@bnr.ca>
Subject: re:yeast nutrients
Greg asks about yeast nutrients and fermentation onset.
I've never used nutrients in my ciders, and only rarely
in my meads (but then I do mostly melomels). The only
times I've had problems with slow starting have been those
cases where I used sulphite to sterilize the must.
I've made both apple and pear ciders, and in both cases
have had gloriously vigorous fermentations the day after
pitching (using both liquid yeast starters and rehydrated
dry yeast). I think undiluted fruit juice, though perhaps
not as rich as beer wort, is probably reasonably rich in
yeast nutrients.
I think the main factors are having healthy yeast, and
aerating your must. Nothing makes you rest easier than
pitching from an actively fermenting starter. If you really
want to talk failsafe, you pitch onto the dregs of a previous
successful batch (shouldn't be done too many times in a row).
Last Saturday I made a batch of Perry. The pressing (with
my tiny press) was going slow and it became obvious that
I wasn't going to have time to pasturize the batch (as I
usually do). So I decided to pitch the yeast in the un-
sterilized juice. I had some yeast slurry that I had
gleaned from the secondary of a batch of apple cider,
so I pitched that in the first bit of pear
juice I had pressed. The stuff was fermenting away
while pressed the pears. While the yeast definitely
had the jump on the native critters, only time will
tell whether or not they cause problems down the road.
Cheers, Rick C.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 10:44:00 +0000
From: "Rick (R.) Cavasin" <cav@bnr.ca>
Subject: re:lend me a clue(campden)
Danny asks what one would use campden tablets for in cider making:
Here's my perspective on the whole thing.
Well, when you get your fresh cider (assuming nothing has been added
in the pressing process) it will have a certain amount of wild yeast,
bacteria, mold spores, etc. in it from what was on the apple skins
at pressing time. This flora will vary from region to region, season
to season, and perhaps from orchard to orchard.
There's basically 4 things you can do (ignoring addition of sugar,
nutrients, acid blend, tannin, spices, etc.):
1) Just let the juice ferment as is using the indigenous yeast.
While there's a certain amount of risk involved with this approach
(it's really hard for a beer brewer like myself to follow this route),
many cider makers report good results with this method.
2) Do nothing about the indigenous yeasts, but add a brewing yeast in the
hope that the larger population of added yeast will dominate.
Risks of approach #1 are somewhat mitigated by the strong initial
fermentation that will result. Still some risk of problems down the
road, but again, many cider makers report good success with this
approach.
3) Add potassium metabisulphite (campden tablets) to kill the indigenous
flora, then add a brewing yeast. This approach reduces the risk of
uninvited guests spoiling the cider down the road. I've always found
that the residual SO2 from the sulphite lingers for a long time and
slows the onset and vigor of the initial fermentation (I've done A/B
comparison). I find that a 'sulphite' taste seemed to linger far
down the road. Some people are alergic to sulphites. Still, many
people go this route.
4) Heat the juice up to pasturizing temperature (about 160F for 15min)
to kill *most* of the indigenous flora, then pitch your desired
yeast. In this case, you have a bit of work involved in heating/
cooling the cider, and you risk setting the pectin (which will
cause a haze - although adding pectinase will fix that). The main
disadvantage is that the heating may adversely affect the flavour
of the cider. I think beer brewers and mead makers are more inclined
to go this route since they'll have the equipment and familiarity.
The main problems with approaches 1 and 2 are that down the road, small
amounts of nasty organisms will cause the cider to spoil. If sugar is
added to boost the final alcohol level, this might help (perhaps this
is how people who go this route get away with it as often as they do?).
So you pays your money and you takes your chances. I usually use method
#4, as I've always had problems with sulphites. This year I'm dabbling
with method #2 to see what happens.
Hope this helps, Rick C.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 16:40:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Chuck Stringer <cstringe@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Clearing agents
I'm having a heck of a time with a batch of cider I started several
weeks ago. It just won't clear. Fermentation seems to have stopped,
buit there is almost no yeast on the bottom of the carboy. I had this
happen once before with a batch and it never really cleared. I used
pectic enzyme, but I think that most of the problem is yeast. I'm
thinking about trying gelatin or bentonite. Any net wisdom on the
subject?
Thanks,
Chuck Stringer
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest
************************
