Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #0037
Subject: Cider Digest #37 Mon Sep 30 18:00:07 EDT 1991
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 18:00:08 EDT
From: cider-request@expo.lcs.mit.edu (Are you SURE you want to send it HERE?)
Cider Digest #37 Mon Sep 30 18:00:07 EDT 1991
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Jay Hersh, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
answers (hersh)
My latest endeavors (hersh)
administrivia (hersh)
administrivia (hersh)
Some answers (hersh)
My latest Endeavors (hersh)
Send submissions to cider@expo.lcs.mit.edu
Send requests to cider-request@expo.lcs.mit.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 12:07:39 EDT
From: hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: answers
Chad asks:
>Should it be bottled after fermentation is complete like ale, or should
>it be given time to sit like wine and mead? If I put it into beer
>bottles and cap it, will it improve with age? Will putting it into wine
>bottles and corking it make a better beverage?
It looks like (from your description) the approach you used is similar to
mead & wine making, after all you pitched with yeast from a mead ferment.
The critical factor in this is what yeast you ferment with.
If you make an ale style draft cider as I've described, you'll want to
treat it like an Ale, bottling sooner.
With a wine or mead yeast (or natural yeasts) you'll want to let it ferment
longer, perhaps with intermediate rackings as necessary. The product will
certainly improve with age, though as for the difference between bulk aging
in carbouys vs aging in bottles I can't say, though I can say all of my meads
seem to age OK in bottles. Corking it in wine bottles works, and many people do
this, though I don't know the relative merits of this vs bottling in beer
bottles with caps.
Aaron B says:
> well... the ferment never started. I pitched some slurry
>of wyeast bavarian wheat yeast
Bavarian wheat yeast?? Why would you use this in a Cider?? I don't think I'd
want the clovey character this yeast would most likely impart in my Cider.
As for preservatives do you hav eany access to farm stands in your area??
>From what I have seen even here in New England stores just don't stock
unpreserved juice.
> 4) What preservatives kill yeast?
The commercial ones I've seen are potassium sorbate and sodium metabisulfite.
Greg R sez:
>On a whim, I picked up two gallons of fresh sweet cider at a farmstand
>last night. I had the innocent thought of using up some dry yeast I
>had left over from beer making (I have sinceswitched to liquid yests
>for beer). Then, things kinda got out of hand.
Well if you'd passed the Mash you'd have Cyser. I don't know what to call what
you've devised, but it sounds pretty interesting. Are you in New England??
I'd love a try of some of this when it is done. If the wine yeast takes (which
one was it by the way??) it should be pretty strong, otherwise I think you'll
get something like a sweetish apple mead with Ale flavors. Better get cracking
and think up a name for this stuff before other people start brewing it cause
then we'll need the name for the new competition category that will have to
be created to accomadate all those you've inspired.
- JaH
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
assume that you are moderate in everything.
you now have an eXcess of moderation, a contradiction.
eXcessiveness is clearly the way to go...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 12:08:25 EDT
From: hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: My latest endeavors
Well the Cider picnic we (Paul Correnty, Myself and varioous other Wort
Processors and associated friends and New England brewer types) was great!!
It was a beautiful day to stroll the orchards. We picked some apples, barbequed
and just enjoyed the last of the nice weather. Paul distributed 225 gallons!!
of the special pressing he made for those attending. It was very nice, a blend
of Gravenstein, Baldwins, and one or two others he collected. Unlike most
drinking ciders you get in stores it was not overwhelmingly sweet. Rather it
had a nice balance and a crisp tartnes in the finish. It should make some
excellent cider. On that note let me tell you what I've done with mine.
I got 12 gallons and am gonna make 4 batches of 3 gallons each.
I took 3 gallons, mixed 4 cups cane sugar directly into it, tossed it into a 3
gallon carbouy with a blowoff tube and am just gonna let whatever yeasts, etc
are in there do their thing following Paul's recommendations for traditional
New England Cider (perhaps I'll toss some raisins in at racking time down the
road a bit).
Another 3 gallons got put in a 5 gallon carbouy, along with 4 6 oz flats of Red
Raspberries that I pureed in a blender. To this I added a package of Red Star
Epernay Yeast.
Three more gallons got put in a 2nd 5 gallon carbouy along with 12 ozs of
pureed cranberries (one local store sells cranberry-apple cider for dirnking
which gave me the idea) and a package of the Epernay yeast.
The final 3 gallons are being frozen until I get back from my trip to Munich,
Prague and Vienna, at which time I am gonna make a draft cider with some Dry
Malt Extract thrown in for yucks, just like I did last year that worked out so
well. The other reason for waiting on this is I'm plum out of carbouys!!
Also planned is some mead. Paul was nice enough to split a batch of apple honey
with me. I have 12 lbs, which I would typically use in a single batch. I
already made a blueberry mead this year with store bought blueberries, but I
have a whole bunch of hand picked blueberries I need to use, so I think I'm
gonna make a split batch, 3 gallons of blueberry apple honey mead, and 3
gallons of straight apple honey mead. Yum!! Of course I was also thinking
about making a blueberry cider if I could find more of a good blend, but I
don't know if that will leave me enough blueberries to make the blueberry lager
and blueberry wheat beer I also have in mind.... Life can be tough sometimes..
- JaH
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
assume that you are moderate in everything.
you now have an eXcess of moderation, a contradiction.
eXcessiveness is clearly the way to go...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 12:09:03 EDT
From: hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: administrivia
I am heading off for some vacation in the Cradle of Brewing Civilization
(Bavaria & Bohemia) with other Wort Processor Stalworts Jim Fitzgerald and Bob
Gorman. While I am gone the Cider Digest is in autopilot mode.
If for some reason the software dies while I'm gone you'll hav eto wait until I
return to fix it. Obviously no subscribe/unsubscribe requests will be processed
while I'm gone. I don't anticipate any problems, so everybody enjoy themselves
and get into high gear as Cider making season is fully upon us. I will drink a
toast to you all at the Oktoberfest!!
- JaH
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
assume that you are moderate in everything.
you now have an eXcess of moderation, a contradiction.
eXcessiveness is clearly the way to go...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:40:32 EDT
From: hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: administrivia
I am heading off for some vacation in the Cradle of Brewing Civilization
(Bavaria & Bohemia) with other Wort Processor Stalworts Jim Fitzgerald and Bob
Gorman. While I am gone the Cider Digest is in autopilot mode.
If for some reason the software dies while I'm gone you'll hav eto wait until I
return to fix it. Obviously no subscribe/unsubscribe requests will be processed
while I'm gone. I don't anticipate any problems, so everybody enjoy themselves
and get into high gear as Cider making season is fully upon us. I will drink a
toast to you all at the Oktoberfest!!
- JaH
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
assume that you are moderate in everything.
you now have an eXcess of moderation, a contradiction.
eXcessiveness is clearly the way to go...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:24:36 EDT
From: hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Some answers
Chad asks:
>Should it be bottled after fermentation is complete like ale, or should
>it be given time to sit like wine and mead? If I put it into beer
>bottles and cap it, will it improve with age? Will putting it into wine
>bottles and corking it make a better beverage?
It looks like (from your description) the approach you used is similar to
mead & wine making, after all you pitched with yeast from a mead ferment.
The critical factor in this is what yeast you ferment with.
If you make an ale style draft cider as I've described, you'll want to
treat it like an Ale, bottling sooner.
With a wine or mead yeast (or natural yeasts) you'll want to let it ferment
longer, perhaps with intermediate rackings as necessary. The product will
certainly improve with age, though as for the difference between bulk aging
in carbouys vs aging in bottles I can't say, though I can say all of my meads
seem to age OK in bottles. Corking it in wine bottles works, and many people do
this, though I don't know the relative merits of this vs bottling in beer
bottles with caps.
Aaron B says:
> well... the ferment never started. I pitched some slurry
>of wyeast bavarian wheat yeast
Bavarian wheat yeast?? Why would you use this in a Cider?? I don't think I'd
want the clovey character this yeast would most likely impart in my Cider.
As for preservatives do you hav eany access to farm stands in your area??
>From what I have seen even here in New England stores just don't stock
unpreserved juice.
> 4) What preservatives kill yeast?
The commercial ones I've seen are potassium sorbate and sodium metabisulfite.
Greg R sez:
>On a whim, I picked up two gallons of fresh sweet cider at a farmstand
>last night. I had the innocent thought of using up some dry yeast I
>had left over from beer making (I have sinceswitched to liquid yests
>for beer). Then, things kinda got out of hand.
Well if you'd passed the Mash you'd have Cyser. I don't know what to call what
you've devised, but it sounds pretty interesting. Are you in New England??
I'd love a try of some of this when it is done. If the wine yeast takes (which
one was it by the way??) it should be pretty strong, otherwise I think you'll
get something like a sweetish apple mead with Ale flavors. Better get cracking
and think up a name for this stuff before other people start brewing it cause
then we'll need the name for the new competition category that will have to
be created to accomadate all those you've inspired.
- JaH
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
assume that you are moderate in everything.
you now have an eXcess of moderation, a contradiction.
eXcessiveness is clearly the way to go...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:37:15 EDT
From: hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: My latest Endeavors
Well the Cider picnic we (Paul Correnty, Myself and varioous other Wort
Processors and associated friends and New England brewer types) was great!!
It was a beautiful day to stroll the orchards. We picked some apples, barbequed
and just enjoyed the last of the nice weather. Paul distributed 225 gallons!!
of the special pressing he made for those attending. It was very nice, a blend
of Gravenstein, Baldwins, and one or two others he collected. Unlike most
drinking ciders you get in stores it was not overwhelmingly sweet. Rather it
had a nice balance and a crisp tartnes in the finish. It should make some
excellent cider. On that note let me tell you what I've done with mine.
I got 12 gallons and am gonna make 4 batches of 3 gallons each.
I took 3 gallons, mixed 4 cups cane sugar directly into it, tossed it into a 3
gallon carbouy with a blowoff tube and am just gonna let whatever yeasts, etc
are in there do their thing following Paul's recommendations for traditional
New England Cider (perhaps I'll toss some raisins in at racking time down the
road a bit).
Another 3 gallons got put in a 5 gallon carbouy, along with 4 6 oz flats of Red
Raspberries that I pureed in a blender. To this I added a package of Red Star
Epernay Yeast.
Three more gallons got put in a 2nd 5 gallon carbouy along with 12 ozs of
pureed cranberries (one local store sells cranberry-apple cider for dirnking
which gave me the idea) and a package of the Epernay yeast.
The final 3 gallons are being frozen until I get back from my trip to Munich,
Prague and Vienna, at which time I am gonna make a draft cider with some Dry
Malt Extract thrown in for yucks, just like I did last year that worked out so
well. The other reason for waiting on this is I'm plum out of carbouys!!
Also planned is some mead. Paul was nice enough to split a batch of apple honey
with me. I have 12 lbs, which I would typically use in a single batch. I
already made a blueberry mead this year with store bought blueberries, but I
have a whole bunch of hand picked blueberries I need to use, so I think I'm
gonna make a split batch, 3 gallons of blueberry apple honey mead, and 3
gallons of straight apple honey mead. Yum!! Of course I was also thinking
about making a blueberry cider if I could find more of a good blend, but I
don't know if that will leave me enough blueberries to make the blueberry lager
and blueberry wheat beer I also have in mind.... Life can be tough sometimes..
- JaH
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
assume that you are moderate in everything.
you now have an eXcess of moderation, a contradiction.
eXcessiveness is clearly the way to go...
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest
************************
-------
