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Cider Digest #0106
Subject: Cider Digest #106 Tue Feb 4 18:00:09 EST 1992
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 18:00:11 EST
From: cider-request@expo.lcs.mit.edu (Are you SURE you want to send it HERE?)
Cider Digest #106 Tue Feb 4 18:00:09 EST 1992
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Jay Hersh, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Bad Cider (gkushmer)
Success in Cider (David Van Iderstine)
Bad Tasted Reprise (loc)
Send submissions to cider@expo.lcs.mit.edu
Send requests to cider-request@expo.lcs.mit.edu
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 13:05:56 EST
From: gkushmer@jade.tufts.edu
Subject: Re: Bad Cider
I managedto avoid a bad batch by cooking the cider first - I heated it
up to 190 F and kept it there for a good twenty minutes (a feat with the
electric stove). I treated all other equipment like homebrew by
sterilizing the carboy and the rest of the stuff and poured the cider
into the carboy after cooling the pot in a cold water bath.
All in all I didn't have any trouble.
Did anyone use sulfur? I have some tablets, but have never opened
the bag with them in it. Now that I think of it - I also have tannin,
yeast nutrient, and pectic acid that I have never used.
Anyone use any of that other stuff? I'm curious if it makes a difference.
- --gk
===============================================================================
"I have special place in my heart for the criminally insane, but YOU
have worn out your welcome."
-The Tick-
- ----------------------------
gkushmer@jade.tufts.edu
- ----------------------------
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 13:11:52 EST
From: orgasm!davevi@uunet.uu.net (David Van Iderstine)
Subject: Success in Cider
Gee, I'm sorry to hear about two out of two bad batches. My first batch, while n
ot
what I expected, is just fine and very drinkable. I solicited lots of advice bef
ore
hand from local apple growers (in western Mass, near Amherst), as well as from
beer-making friends and email groups. Here's what I did:
Starting with 5 gallons of local, unpasteurized cider, I added potassium metabis
ulfite
to sterilize it. I chose sulfite sterilization over boiling because I've heard b
oiling
cider can change its flavor. Among sulfites, there's potassium sulfite ("Campden
s
tablets"), sodium metabisulfite, and potassium metabisulfite. People avoid sodiu
m
metabisulfite for the same reason they avoid salt (high blood pressure, etc.). A
mong the
wine makers I consulted, they unanimously recommended potassium metabisulfite. I
don't
really know why.
The solution of sulfites was made as follows: 5 level tablespoons are
added to 1 quart water, and dissolved. Then, 1 teaspoon of solution is added per
gallon
of cider. This gives a concentration of 65 ppm, a good (I've been told) level to
use.
An alternate method is to use 1/8 teaspoon sulfite crystals to 5 gals. cider, fo
r a
30 ppm concentration. Opinion varied as to the optimal concentration to use. Som
ewhere
between 30 and 70 was the concensus. (I got the higher number from a chemist/bre
wer,
so I used that one.) Clearly proportions can be reduced on the solution, in case
you
don't want/need a quart of it!
Once the sulfite was in, I put a damp cheesecloth over the carboy mouth, and let
it
stand (without a cork) for 2 days. The theory here is the sulfer can escape as a
gas
after doing its sterilization bit. After 48 hours, I added 2 packages Red Star
champagne yeast, after rehydrating it (I think). I shook the carboy well (to aer
ate
the cider, since yeast needs lots of oxygen to start growing), then added an air
lock
and let it sit.
I racked the cider 6 or more times, starting after several weeks. Once fermentat
ion
had almost ceased, I racked it whenever I noticed a layer of sediment. The resul
t has
been an extremely clarified cider, yellow in color like a wine. At bottling time
,
I added 2/3 cup of corn sugar, thinking this would be enough to prime it for a
carbonated product. This later proved to not be enough, as the product is still,
despite several months storage in bottles.
So what do I have? Well, it's a very dry, non-appley tasting drink. It's light,
refreshing, and fairly low in alcohol content. I didn't measure my starting spec
ific
gravity, so I can't say exactly how much alcohol it contains, but I doubt it's o
ver
4 %; probably around 3.something. I personally like it, as have others. My wife
doesn't really care for it, but hey, more for me! It's very close to wine in its
character, like a german May wine. I would have liked bubbles; I'll try again fo
r
that it my next batch.
What suprised me about it is how little apple flavor it has left in it, and also
its
low alcohol content. Friends I know who make hard ciders usually add honey and/o
r
sugar to them, boosting alcohol content (and changing flavor as well I'm sure!),
ending up with products they call "cisers". I think I may do that myself next ti
me,
add several pounds of some gourmet honey (maybe even an apple blossom one!).
Having "made" hard cider in the past by letting cider just ferment with its own
wild yeasts and no sterilization, I knew the many risks involved in that. Occasi
onally
you get something drinkable, for a few days, that gets more and more sour until
you
have to throw it away, so I knew I wanted more control over the process. Hence t
he
sulfites and store-bought yeast. My product now is extremely stable (I've had it
around for 4 months). Other variables in the future may be different apple varie
ties
in the cider, and different yeast strains. Perhaps some fruits added to it after
some
fermentation has taken place would be interesting too (like wild blueberries?).
Well, I hope this is some help to folks. Better luck next time, and keep trying!
- -- Dave
===========================================================================
== Dave Van Iderstine Senior Software Engineer ==
== Xerox Imaging Systems, Inc. ==
== UUCP: uunet!pharlap!orgasm!davevi davevi@pharlap.com :INTERNET ==
== (508) 544 - 0278 :: human (508) 544 - 5459 :: fax ==
==-----------------------------------------------------------------------==
== "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate." ==
===========================================================================
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 13:49:51 EST
From: loc@bostech.com
Subject: Bad Tasted Reprise
To all that are experiencing a bad taste to their ciders.
Don't worry just yet. When I started hearing people talk
about bad tasting cider I thought that it was the odd batch that
went south. But with the increase of comments I think this is
worth mentioning.
There is a phenomena in wine making called 'bottle sickness'.
This develops early on after the beverage is bottled. My cider
has experienced a similar sour taste but now that it has been
in the bottle over 4 months the sourness is subsiding and the real
flavors are starting to come through. I don't know what causes
this whether it is EtOH level or sugar type or acid content or
what. But I've had it happen to grape wines, fruit wines,
ciders and meads. I've just learned to let the bottle sit at
least 4 months before I taste them. (I can assure you some of
those 4 months are the longest I have ever spent waiting) I've
also accepted the fact that some wines will take longer to get
over 'bottle sickness' and in that case I just let them sit
longer.
I guess that means I have to keep making cider so I can let the
new one sit long enough to get over being sick before I open it.
Patience is a virtue and some times I'm not so virtuous.
cheers,
rogerl
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End of Cider Digest
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