Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #0054
Subject: Cider Digest #54 Mon Oct 28 18:00:07 EST 1991
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 91 18:00:08 EST
From: cider-request@expo.lcs.mit.edu (Are you SURE you want to send it HERE?)
Cider Digest #54 Mon Oct 28 18:00:07 EST 1991
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Jay Hersh, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #52 Sun Oct 27 11:00:07 EST 1991 (hersh)
RE: Cider Digest #53 Mon Oct 28 11:00:23 EST 1991 (KLUDGE)
Re: Cider Digest #53 Mon Oct 28 11:00:23 EST 1991 (hersh)
malo-lactic fermentation (John Paul Braud)
Send submissions to cider@expo.lcs.mit.edu
Send requests to cider-request@expo.lcs.mit.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 91 11:25:33 EST
From: hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #52 Sun Oct 27 11:00:07 EST 1991
Uh oh Greg...
Sounds like what you did was real similar to my first attempts.
Basically just tossing Red Star Champagne Yeast into the cider (the 1 cup of
cane sugar isn't much in the way of fortification). Unless the Red Star craps
out early (which it's not known to do, typically it's a very hearty yeast)
you'll probably get something similar to my first attempts, that is really dry
and tart with all the fermentable sugar (i.e. all the sugar) converted to
alcohol. That's not necessarily bad news. Should the batch turn out this way
you can chill it to knock out the yeast, then mix it with unfermented cider to
suit your taste. You may even want to just do the mixing at drinking time.
Keep your eye on this, but my guess is it will finish very very dry.
- Jay
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1991 11:15:16 EST
From: KLUDGE@agcb1.larc.nasa.gov
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #53 Mon Oct 28 11:00:23 EST 1991
While I was up at Cornell a couple weeks ago, I picked up two gallons of
absolutely magnificent fresh cider with the intention of fermenting it.
Well, I drank one gallon on the drive back, and accidentally left the other
gallon in the car overnight without refrigeration.
Opening it and tasting it, it had slightly bitter taste. Slightly
alcoholic. So I figured I would just leave it out and see what happened.
After a couple of days, it began to taste quite bitter and vinegary. The
brown foam on top was replaced by a light colored deposit at the bottom of
the bottle which let off bubbles slowly. A week later, it is definitely
vinegar.
So, I've got myself some fresh cider vinegar to use for cooking. I
suppose that if I had pitched yeast when it first started to change in taste
that the alcohol would have killed everything off, but it's too late now.
- --scott
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 91 11:47:37 EST
From: hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #53 Mon Oct 28 11:00:23 EST 1991
Dave,
regarding your questions on sterilization.
You mention 3 options, you forgot the 4th.
Let me put forward my views on these options.
1) Boiling - I don't like this for cider at all. It boils off lots of lovely
aromatics and really IMHO destroys the falvors of the cider
2) steeping - a steep of 180F (same temps used for canning) is basically a
Pasteurization procedure. This will kill many bacteria and is a reasonable
alternative. I use steeping for making meads, but that is because I add
the honey (which itself is sterile by virtue of it's high osmotic pressure) \
to tap water which has a finite amount of bacteria. Also this aids in
dissolving the honey into the must. For cider I consider this the best option
if you feel you must do something to control wild yeasts and/or bacteria.
3) Sulfites - lots of people use these, but I am just not comfortable with them.
Basically I don't like the idea of chemical additives and in my experience have
found no call to use them. I dislike the smell of the sulfites as well.
People who do use them use them in the quantity of 1 tablet (for Capmden
tablets) per gallon (you should double check this number as I'm quoting from a
hazy memory of my homebrew supply retail sales days) and wait 24 hours before
adding the yeast.
4) Nothing - that's right do nothing, simply add the yeast. I have used Epernay
and Pasteur Champagne yeasts added directly to room temperature cider with
great success. They are very vigorous yeasts and starve out other bacteria and
yeasts pretty well.
On other occasions I have boiled sugars and malt extract in water, then added
that to cold cider (fridge temps of ~40F) then added Whitbread Ale Yeast
directly to this room temperature mixture. Also here I had very good results.
I typically let ther ferments go until finished, 4-6 weeks with one racking
about half-way especially if I have added fruit to get the cider off the fruit
sediment.
Hope this answers some of your questions. Anyone else have any comments??
- JaH
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 91 16:37:24 EST
From: jpb%thought-crime@saffron.lcs.mit.edu (John Paul Braud)
Subject: malo-lactic fermentation
Anybody out there know much about this?
I have some cider-making info ("Hard Cider Workshop," author unknown
to me, but I think it's from Paul Correnty's AHA talk) which states
that when a cider's conventional fermentation has ceased, the vessel
should be stoppered in order to "encourage a malo-lactic fermentation
which will mellow the cider." From what I gather, this process
converts the apples' hard-edged malic acid into smoother lactic acid.
A few questions: How much does this matter?
Are yeast responsible for this?
If so, which yeast can do it -- wild, cultured, either?
Has anyone used cultured malo-lactic bacteria in cider?
(Wyeast sells the stuff)
If so, how is it best used?
Enquiring minds want to relax and have a homebrew ....
John Paul Braud
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest
************************
-------
