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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 581
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 581
Saturday, August 15th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Part 2 - Reply from the Phoenix Project
Conclusion - Reply from the Phoenix Project
Stanton Friedman
Air&space article
Re: The Nature Of Reality
Re: Chinese Scientists Explore Ufo Mysteries
Reply From Phoenix Project
Reply From Phoenix Project
Vallee
newsletter
Vallee
Newsletter
Stanton Friedman
Conclusion - Reply from t
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Part 2 - Reply from the Phoenix Project
Date: 11 Aug 92 04:04:02 GMT
<<..Continued from previous message>>
Tell us, Mr. Corbin, where did we go wrong? Armed with that
information from trusted sources, was the Phoenix Project out of
line in pricking the bubble of that illusion? You might also note
that we referenced our investigation to commonly "accepted"
reliable information from "so-called" serious UFO researchers.
We sent in experienced investigators, not amateurs, to check out
the alleged Dulce Base. Those people knew what to look for, how to
look for it, how to get answers, and are not easily mislead.
If you do not agree with our findings, get off your posterior, go
to Dulce, and check it out for yourself. In fact, we invite
anybody to do the same thing. We're sure you'll find exactly what
we did -- absolutely nothing to support the information supposedly
provided by "reliable" (?) sources. We are not inclined to accept
your arm-chair analysis of what is or isn't there or the validity
of our findings. However, if you do get off your posterior and go
to Dulce, and find anything of significance that we missed, we'll
be more than happy to alter our stance and publicly admit we really
missed something. The important item is to reveal the truth
concerning the Dulce illusion.
You imply that you're good at asking questions -- how are you at
answering them? We have a few questions. Would you mind sharing
with all of us, everyone on the BBS's and the public, what hard
evidence you have that, without question, supports the presence and
validity of the Dulce Base. In all fairness, can that evidence
stand further scrutiny and investigation? Is it so credible that
you are absolutely certain that it is genuine? Are you absolutely
certain that any such evidence, if it exists, really pertains to
the location referred to as Dulce? Is it possible, if such
evidence exists, that it pertains to some location other than Dulce
but Dulce was how it was labeled? Are you willing to offer that
evidence to other investigators and make it available for public
scrutiny. If your answer to any of the foregoing questions is
"negative" or "no," we rest our case. Unless you have irrefutable
evidence to present, made available for public scrutiny and
evaluation, which invalidates the findings of the Phoenix Project
regarding Dulce, K-2, or the Ultimate Secret, or our future
reports, back off. Either put-up or shut-up. In other words, get
off our back.
The Phoenix Project is now making the results of its investigations
and the evidence it has obtained, public. Anyone seriously
interested in revealing the truth is encouraged to check it out.
In fact we want them to check it out for themselves. It won't take
an intelligent person long to discover that we report exactly what
we find. We're not playing games with serious researchers or the
public. Since we do not have unlimited funding, or the time to
continuously monitor the on-going aspects of every area we have
investigated, we do the best we can under the circumstances. We
actively encourage other serious investigators to use the
information we have provided as a basis for conducting their own
inquiry and to carry-on our effort. Can you, Mr. Corbin, or
ParaNet, or Mufon, make the same claim. Or, is it true that the
results of critical investigations are held sacred by the elite
leadership of these organizations, and are not shared with the
member's of their organizations or the public?
In your message, you insinuate that because of our past military
and intelligence backgrounds, our area of expertise so-to-speak,
that the motives of the Phoenix Project are suspect. You further
insinuate that we are possibly government operatives attempting to
send serious researchers off on a variety of wild goose chases. If
that were true, which it isn't, or original, which it isn't, we're
certainly going about it in a novel way. We are not government
operatives, and we are not passing along disinformation provided by
any government agency. To our way of thinking that concept smacks
of "guilt by association." Bye-the-way, have you ever heard the
expression "when did you stop beating your wife?"
If anyone needed assurance that the truth regarding UFO's will
remain a deep, dark, secret -- they can rest secure in the
knowledge that you, are on the job. There are any number of
government agencies who would welcome you with open arms. Expect
some offers.
We are sure that the honest and sincere members of ParaNet and
other UFO investigative organizations (and there are many) must be
seriously considering whether your qualifications, fitness and
investigative ability warrant your continuance in a position of
leadership within what used to be a respected research
organization.
The Phoenix Project offered what amounted to new information
regarding the subjects covered in the reports released. The "meat
and potatoes - the main course. You chose to ignore that, and went
for the desert. Instead of making an honest attempt to validate or
disprove our findings regarding the subjects mentioned -- missing
the point completely, you chose to become obsessed with determining
the identity of Phoenix Project personnel. For what reason? Do you
intend to judge the validity of the information based on the
credentials of those providing it? Some people would interpret
that as putting the cart before the horse. Explain to us how or
why the credentials of our investigators, or their identity, have
any bearing on the validity of the information. Either the
information is true or it isn't. It's as simple as that, or does
that simple fact escape you.
Your obsession with establishing the identity of Phoenix Project
personnel could lead us to believe that "you" have an ulterior
motive. How can we, or others, be assured of your motives. One does
not need a brilliant mind to envision a scenario where the
information the Phoenix Project has released is discredited because
of an act of character assignation. This is a ploy utilized by not
only the government but others who wish to suppress information.
It has been used over and over again, with great success. Anyone
familiar with the history of the UFO cover-up knows of and could
cite you a dozen examples.
Suppose we asked these questions -- would you be prepared to
respond to them? Who are you? What are your credentials? Who are
those holding positions of leadership in ParaNet? What are their
qualifications and credentials? How do we know that you or ParaNet
are not controlled by government operatives? What qualifications
are required to hold a position of leadership within ParaNet? Who
receives the results of investigations conducted by ParaNet? Are
the results always made public? Are your records open for public
inspection? Do you ever conceal investigative results from your
members or the public? Every coin has two sides. If you can ask
questions and demand answers, we claim the same privilege. If you
think we will back-down because of your insinuations and
innuendoes, think again.
Regarding your message, and some of the items you've uncovered,
that are "striking coincidences." We found the following
interesting:
We were unaware that anyone had ever attempted to create a
corporation in Nevada calling itself the Phoenix Project. Due to
the nature of our work, and to protect the identity of our
personnel it would be a foolish endeavor. We never made an attempt
to incorporate our organization in any State.
We do not know, nor have we ever heard of, or met, an individual by
the name of Thomas C. Naylor. This interests us. You will let us
know what you discover about him - won't you?
You suggest a possible link between our organization and America
West. Sorry about that, but you're dead wrong. It has come to us
from several sources that we're not on their list of favorite
people. We will take this opportunity to categorically deny that
we have any affiliation with America West, their publication the
"Phoenix Liberator," or any other publication they provide.
The fact that one of our investigator's forgot his camera on a
quick trip to K-2 seems to intrigue you and many others. There's
an old saying "Nobody's Perfect." Since we've never made the claim
of being perfect, its absurd to expect us to abide by that
standard. We did have a choice of including or deleting it from
our report. After all, if we hadn't mentioned it, he would
certainly look better. After discussion, we left it in because it
was the truth. It's a peccadillo we'll have to live with,
sometimes the truth hurts, or haven't you noticed.
<Concluded in next message..>
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Conclusion - Reply from the Phoenix Project
Date: 11 Aug 92 04:05:03 GMT
<<<..Continued from previous message>>>
Do not expect us to respond to the other coincidences,
suppositions, insinuations or innuendoes contained in your message.
Since you brought up America West and The "Phoenix Liberator," why
not turn your investigative abilities loose on their organization.
Just suppose that Milton Cooper is, quietly, linked to their
organization. That should intrigue you. Equally intriguing, is
where their funding comes from - not the obvious subscription
income - the covert funding. Or, how about the busy and numerous,
off premise, writers that prepare the volumes of "Hatonn" material,
and their use of high-speed modems to provide the copy for each
weekly issue of the "Phoenix Liberator" and the dozens of books
they produce. In our supposition, we're talking about a big-time
operation. You might also check out their printing facilities,
distribution centers, and world-wide circulation. Equally
fascinating is their sudden rise, in a few short years, to the top
of the New Age Movement. You might even think to ask yourself, why
the New Age Movement? What possible connection is there with
covert government UFO activities, or a New World Order, with the
New Age Movement? The answer to that might be revealed, if you dig
deep enough, and discover high-speed modem links between their
headquarters and certain organizations located at Langley and Ft.
Meade. Yes, if you really dig, you might uncover all kinds of
interesting things about America West. However, since you don't
take any information provided by the Phoenix Project seriously,
this supposition will surely be labeled a fictional work. The
product of over-worked imaginations and stressed-out investigators.
Oh, well!
As to your effort in trying to identify staff personnel of the
Phoenix Project -- good luck. However, we do have to admit that
you may get lucky and hit on a couple of them. However, since
there are many, it is doubtful you will ever get beyond that point.
It is not our intent nor will it become our objective to enter into
an adversarial debate with either you or ParaNet, or any other
individual or research organization. However, you started this
debacle - we didn't. You implied our information was suspect and
possibly false. Under the circumstances, we have every right to
express our viewpoints on this issue.
In our opinion, the public deserves the truth regarding the real
story of UFO's, government involvement and the Alien threat. That
should be our objective. It is up to "serious" researchers to
really dig and reveal the facts and make them known. The Phoenix
Project has dedicated its staff and resources, for over forty
years, to that objective. Perhaps you'll agree that, that
objective is more productive than entertaining the public via the
BBS links with a side-show of petty squabbles and bickering between
individuals and organizations.
Signed,
The Phoenix Project
This response by the Phoenix Project to a recent message
originating from Michael Corbin of ParaNet, will be posted on all
available BBS's.
@Redirected Via Node 1:104/422 : Mon, Aug 10, 1992 3:33pm
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Stanton Friedman
Date: 11 Aug 92 07:37:00 GMT
Rick Pavek writes:
>
> It sounds like John Burke has a personal axe to grind. Is
> that true John?
Absolutely not. I've never met Stan. I just think he's wasted a
lot of other people's time and money trying to defend his own
"pet projects".
What led you to believe that I had "a personal axe to grind"? My
posting was limited strictly to his methodologies. His
personality was never discussed, since I don't know him. When
someone disagrees with another person's methodologies do you
always assume that they just have a "personal axe to grind"?
> One article does not necessarily make the world turn upside
> down...
What the hell does that mean?
One good expose of shabby (euphamism) research and investigative
techniques should enlighten the book-buying and
FUFOR-contributing public about whether they're getting their
money's worth. It should also raise the question (among
publishers of UFO-related journals, etc.) of whether this guy
deserves all the space he's getting.
> I listened to Stanton in Portland last year and he quite
> methodically went through the documents, their claims of
> authenticity, their claims of forgery, and went on to
> debunk the claims of forgery.
Well, almost *three* years ago, I heard Bill Moore give a talk,
during which he gave the audience some glimpses of what the study
of the MJ-12 documents had revealed. You may or may not recall
that Friedman got about $16,000 from FUFOR to have a document
examiner study the MJ-12 documents (or should I say the
*photographs* of these documents) to learn what could be learned
about their authenticity. The picture painted by Moore about the
outcome of this research wasn't nearly as "rosey" as the picture
painted by Friedman. Moore's talk is available on audio and
videotape from John White's Omega Communications (listed in UFO
Magazine's classifieds). Has Friedman *ever* released the
original document examiner's report, itself? As far as I know,
he simply sold his own paper at the 1990 MUFONfest in which he
*discussed* this study. Has it ever been made available in its
entirety? Wouldn't this be a more objective authority on the
authenticity of the MJ-12 documents than Stan's own "spin" on
what this report contained?
> +From what I hear, attacks on Stanton are the result of a
> personal difference of opinion.
Uh-huh.
> I think everyone has a right to be heard and the bickering
> like this only detracts from the field as a whole.
This statement is a non-sequitur. I have a right to be heard
without my observations' being mischaracterized as "bickering".
Do you ever read the International UFO Reporter? Did you read
the latest issue? Is that issue full of "bickering"? Do you
object to public debates about the validity of various aspects of
UFO research? I think that shabby research and investigative
techniques (which can easily be exposed as such) detract from
this field as a whole. That's why it is ignored by some of the
world's best minds at a time when we need them most.
> At least he doesn't 'channel' or do other dubious
> performance art.
Hey, what do you have against performance art? Do you have a
personal axe to grind against Laurie Anderson? :-)
-- John
--
John Burke - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Air&space article
Date: 11 Aug 92 04:12:00 GMT
JP>Of course, this is patently absurd. There is no such thing as "close to
JP>going off" - it was either armed or it wasn't. If it was armed then it
JP>would have reduced the habitable acreage of our country by almost one
JP>state and if it wasn't armed then it would have done no more damage than
JP>that of an ordinary airplane crash in the desert. Except for, at least,
JP>one small detail - the crash site would still be clearly and easily
JP>detectable with a geiger counter, and it isn't.
EXCELLENT point. Scratch one more prosaic theory.
Jim
* OLX 2.1 TD * Extraordinary Research Requires Extraordinary Funding
--
Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: The Nature Of Reality
Date: 11 Aug 92 04:45:01 GMT
* Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
* Originally from David R. Stepien
* Originally dated 08-07-92 12:33
From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien)
Date: 6 Aug 92 19:20:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Message-ID: <1992Aug6.192042.2994@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
I have been reading alt.alien.visitors for about two weeks now,
and had been considering composing a posting when I came across
the article on THE NATURE OF REALITY, and found a lot of the
words had been taken right out of my mouth. For the past year I
have been delving deeply into this subject. From the research I
have done, I would highly recommend the following materials to
anyone who is truly trying to understand it:
Books:
1. Matrix II - see article 7932 for info
2. The Gulf Breeze Sightings - Ed Walters
3. UFO's - Above Top Secret - Timothy Goode
4. A Strange Harvest - Linda Moulton Howe (cattle mutilations,
Gov't coverup)
5. Flying Saucers are Real - Maj Donald Keyhoe (Keyhoe resigned
from Project Bluebook disgusted by what he saw to be an
obvious coverup)
Videos:
1. Crop Circle Communique - Linda Moulton Howe Productions
Great aerial footage, compendium of threories, analysis, etc
2. A Strange Harvest - Linda Moulton Howe Productions
1983 documentary on cattle mutilations
3. Sightings - UFO's - originally broadcast on Fox Network
Well done overview of entire subject - Includes interviews
with Robert Lazar and George Knapp, an investigative reporter
from Las Vegas.
One thing I can say is that after studying these materials,
attending UFO group meetings, and listening in person to abductee
accounts, I find it impossible to dismiss the phenomenon. What
makes this such a difficult area to clarify, however, is that the
core truth is obscured from two sides. On one hand we have the
Government/Air Force, who by concealing their own information and
concocting lie after lie to feed to the public, have done an
amazing job of deluding vast numbers of us into the comfortable
conception that all UFO witnesses and contactees are lunatics.
On the other side, the people who are trying to "cash in" on the
phenomenon by building bogus ET cults and disseminating phoney
stories and hoaxes, are no less guilty. When researching UFO's,
one must always confront the question of "where does the truth
stop and the slop begin?", because there's plenty of slop out
there.
The book Matrix II is a good example of this. Matrix II is a
treasure trove of information, including newspaper clippings,
historical reviews of the Roswell crash, Interviews, etc. Yet
there is also what seems to be a good dose of nonsense thrown in
- claims of huge underground tunnel networks under the U.S.
populated by some subterranean intelligent species, claims that
Bush and Gorbachev are robots, etc. Thus, even within a single
book, one has to ask, where do you draw the line?
All one has to do is read through alt.alien.visitors to find the
same thing going on. One has to wade through all the stories of
astral traveling with R2D2, personal attacks, and recipes for
cooking greys to find the few really useful pieces of
information. This forum has a great potential for sharing
knowledge and coming to some kind of consensus on what is really
going on, if people would only start treating it a little more
seriously.
So, for some serious discussion:
1. CATTLE MUTILATIONS
One thing I haven't seen discussed here recently is cattle
mutilations. A lot of the skeptics in this newsgroup constantly
say there is no hard evidence, and in my view this is some of the
hardest. It has been established that surgery is performed on
these animals with a precision laser type intrument. Their
rectums and sexual organs are usually removed, along with
tounges, eyes, etc. The animals are found dead in a field with
absolutely no tracks surrounding the bodies. There have been
cases where the animal was seen alive only a few hours earlier.
There have been eyewitness sightings of both unexplained lights
and craft in the sky during nights preceeding the discoveries of
the bodies, along with similar daylight sightings of saucer craft
in the area. Two ranchers who staked out a feedlot where a rash of
mutilations was occuring reported seeing two greys "float"
into the feedlot in the middle of the night, at which point they
left to get the local sherrif. When they returned the greys were
gone, along with one of the cows. An abductee recalled under
regression said that she had witnessed a calf being raised into a
ship via a beam. The number of mutilation cases is now in the
thousands, and they have been reported all over the world
(someone in here asked why this in only occurring in the U.S. -
it's not!). Over and over it is the same story. Of course
there have been debunkers who point the finger at predators or
cults, but these theories can not possibly explain the HARD
EVIDENCE. Media coverage of mutilations peaked in the early
eighties, but is now nearly non-existent, even though it is
continuing to happen.
2. ABDUCTEE REGRESSION ACCOUNTS
The following "explanations" have been proposed:
a. Somehow, the hypnotist is planting the abduction memories.
Response - Having seen videos of several actual sessions,
and read transcripts of several more, I find it impossible
to believe that this is the entire basis of the phenomenon.
The detail that comes out of these people in response to a
simple question, such as "what did they do to you", is
incredible, consistent from case to case, and certainly
beyond the imagination of many of them. They are not being
fed this detail in any way whatsoever - common sense says
it must be coming from elsewhere. I do however believe that
an unprofessional hypnotists can plant or corrupt memories,
and that this may be occurring, in a MINORITY of the cases.
b. People are having mass hallucinations base on the movies
"Close Encounters", "ET", etc.
Come on! This is clearly a case of art imitating life, not
vice versa. A great point someone made earlier is why don't
people mass hallucinate "Alien" type creatures. Why not
Freddy Krueger, or Superman for that matter?
3. CROP CIRCLES
Cerologists, as they call themselves, are now fairly certain that
they can distinguish "authentic" circles from hoaxes, of which
there are plenty (Doug and Dave's are the most famous). The main
feature is that the stalks of the crop are bent as if they were
heated, and there is no cell damage! Circles have been found in
"unbendable" plants. These plants would snap like celery if a
human tried to bend them, but they were found bent at perfect 90
degree angles, again with no damage. Many of the formations have
been found to contain within their designs precise mathematical
ratios that correspond to the diatonic scale, and also contain
proofs of various mathematical theorems (see cover story of Feb
issue of Science News). Soil samples from circles contain trace
radioactive isotopes not naturally found there. Again, lights
and craft are commonly seen in the vicinity prior to circle
discoveries.
What do the skeptics say - "Oh it's weather, or it's people with
boards and strings." Give me a break.
4. SIGHTINGS
There have been so many sightings it would be impossible to
catalog them. Many are by pilots, even astronomers. I highly
recommend reading the book on the sightings at Gulf Breeze.
FINALLY.....A WORD FROM THE "SANE"....
So lets just close our eyes and try and think up an explanation
for these things. Gee, what could it be? It can't be the
obvious thing - ALIEN VISTORS - because we all KNOW that this
just can't be. Our government tells us so, and most of us have
personally never seen one, and nothing can possibly exist that we
haven't personally seen. It must be that all these thousands of
abductees, scientists, pilots and witnesses are crazy gullible
boobs. Yeah, that's it! Thank God there's people like us, who
know the absolute truth about everything, to set them straight.
AND A WORD FROM THE REALLY SANE....
So lets just close our eyes and try and think up an explanation
for these things. Gee, what could it be? It must be the obvious
thing - ALIEN VISTORS - and they must be here to save the planet
and the lady I met at the Psychic fair can talk to them and she
says I am one of the ones who is going to get a spot on the ships
when the world blows up in 1998, so I better send a bunch of
money to this guy in France so he can build a building shaped
like the craft that came and talked to him and now I understand
that the Miller beer commercial is really an attempt by our
Government to introduce us to them...
AND A WORD FROM ME....
So lets just close our eyes and try and think up an explanation
for these things. Gee, what could it be? It must be the obvious
thing - ALIEN VISTORS - period.
_________________________________________________________________
David Stepien
Email : stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jake,.Smith@p0.f26.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jake, Smith)
Subject: Re: Chinese Scientists Explore Ufo Mysteries
Date: 11 Aug 92 21:06:00 GMT
Hi! SOunds like their nearing the fine line of rEALITY. I must say
though that your post was interesting. Only guy on this board to ever
talk about foreign alein sightings in detail. I know because I've
bbsing on the board since I logged on as 29th user. Hope the Chinese
find something. End all the mysteries. Imaginge the changes in life
if UFO's were officialy reconized. Religion, Education, Defence,
politics would all be affected, for good or not I'm not sure? Write
back and tell me what you think!
-Jake Smith
--
Jake, Smith - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jake,.Smith@p0.f26.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Don.Sudduth@p0.f26.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Sudduth)
Subject: Reply From Phoenix Project
Date: 12 Aug 92 05:24:00 GMT
> Congratulations Mr. Corbin. You've just won the
> Golden Fleece
> Award for outstanding ineptness in your investigation
> of the
> Phoenix Project. Your efforts thus far indicate a
> degree of
> amateur sleuthing more in line with that of a Cub
> Reporter trying
> to get a job on the staff of The Daily Sentinel. True
> to form
> (notable in many self-centered and Godly UFO
> Organizations) and
> lacking any real expertise, let alone concrete
> evidence, your
> message reveals what purports to be the results of
> your
> investigation into the Phoenix Project. The result: a
> conclusion
> based on quote - "coincidences that are striking and
> suggestive."
Oh, please..... I can't stop laughing! This Phoenix Project is outrageous!
Sounds like junior high mentality!
There is NO possible way these guys have any credibility now.
Thankyou, Mike, for keeping a level head and opening our eyes!!
Don
--
Don Sudduth - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Don.Sudduth@p0.f26.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Reply From Phoenix Project
Date: 12 Aug 92 07:44:00 GMT
Don Sudduth writes:
> Oh please..... I can't stop laughing! This Phoenix
> Project is outrageous! Sounds like junior high
> mentality!
>
> There is NO possible way these guys have any credibility
> now.
>
> Thankyou, Mike, for keeping a level head and opening our
> eyes!!
Unfortunately, I think that there are probobly a lot of people
who will read this who will be emotionally pre-disposed toward
accepting it. The emotional tone of that message will
"resonate" with their own feelings and they will yell at their
computer: "Right ON, Jack!". These are the people who already
feel hostility against Mike Corbin and ParaNet itself for
helping to "spoil" such festivities as: Hatoonism, Ed Walters
Arts & Crafts and Cooperphilia.
Emotions play too big a role in UFOlogy. They often not only
affect but sometimes *control* the way people perceive things,
process data and form opinions. Too frequently, the person who
is the best at manipulating the emotions of his audience, gets
the best response. When many of us read Jack's rantings, we
were reminded of the emotional response of George Green (Hatoon)
to Don Ecker's expose of that guy in UFO magazine.
Many UFO-related debates, including some on-line here, result
in one person's need to impugn motives for the other person's
point of view. Is it because some people are just incapable of
discussing, facts, data and evidence? I think it's just because
that at some point their emotions take over their entire thought
process. To many of us, these people end up looking foolish.
Nevertheless, IMHO, many people are *driven* to UFOlogy to
satisfy an emotional *need*. When their source of emotional
satisfaction is being challenged or "threatened" they lash back
in an emotional manner. Other people of the same mind-set will
relate to this. (It would be interesting to hear what a real
psychologist would have to say about my observations here!)
Anyway, I can't wait to see what turns up when the rocks are
turned over and we find out who these other Phoenix Project guys
are (which Jack said was likely) and what they've been involved
in (as Jack's expressed dread about this emphasized). Whether
John Lear's name comes up, or just more ties to America West,
I'm sure that we can expect more emotional fireworks!
-- John
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Vallee
Date: 11 Aug 92 20:25:00 GMT
I hear Jacques Vallee has divorced himself from organized ufology. Anyone
know anything?
jbh
--
John Hicks - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: newsletter
Date: 11 Aug 92 20:33:01 GMT
Terry Ecker, MUFON SSD in northeast central Florida, is publishing a
newsletter that's a breath of fresh air.....the _UFOLOGIST_.
In his latest issue, he published an account of a close encounter in
west-central Florida that involved a policeman and a large bright green
light, written by Fearon Hicks; published two articles by Bruce Maccabee who
attempts to refute William Hyzer's finding of fakery in Ed Walters' photo
#19 (Terry had previously published material from Rex Salisberry); and got
into a big fight with Florida MUFON State Director Charles Flannigan over
the Salisberrys, red lights etc.
In short, a very worthwhile read that certainly doesn't follow the "party
line." Highly recommended.
The _Ufologist_ is published monthly; subscriptions are $15
Terrell Ecker
706 River St.
Palatka, FL 32177
jbh
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Vallee
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:48:01 GMT
> I hear Jacques Vallee has divorced himself from organized ufology.
> Anyone know anything?
It is true. Jacques has had it with the organized brand of UFOlogy, not
naming any names, but he is continuing his own private research into the
phenomenon. Is it really any wonder that a person such as Vallee, with some
original thought and pretty interesting theories should catch such crap from
the "control factions" that he speaks of? No. I commend him on his
fortitude, persistence and tremendous insight.
Actually, we should celebrate!
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Anson.Kennedy@p0.f25.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Anson Kennedy)
Subject: Newsletter
Date: 13 Aug 92 02:37:00 GMT
> Terry Ecker, MUFON SSD in northeast central Florida,
> is publishing a newsletter that's a breath of fresh
> air.....the _UFOLOGIST_.
[Excellent summary of latest issue deleted]
> In short, a very worthwhile read that certainly
> doesn't follow the "party line." Highly recommended.
> The _Ufologist_ is published monthly; subscriptions
> are $15
I second that recommendation. I requested one sample issue (Vol. 1 No. 1) and
have received three. My check is in the mail.
--- Anson
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Stanton Friedman
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:56:00 GMT
NC>It sounds like John Burke has a personal axe to grind. Is that true
NC>John?
John's axe may be personal (though I highly doubt it), but mine is not. I
know and _like_ Stan Friedman, and acknowledge his many contributions to the
field. But I have to agree that his research methodologies and presentation
strategies have taken a large turn for the shoddy.
NC>I listened to Stanton in Portland last year and he quite methodically
NC>went through the documents, their claims of authenticity, their claims of
NC>forgery, and went on to debunk the claims of forgery.
But did he do so _convincingly_, or did his analysis include such
off-the-wall convolutions as, "How do you know they didn't invent a new
Executive Order numbering system for this one document?"?
NC>+From what I hear, attacks on Stanton are the result of a personal difference
NC>of opinion.
Instead of relying on what you hear, why don't you read the cited articles
and judge for yourself? That's the good thing about this particular dispute:
both sides are hanging out their linens for examination in public. We need
not rely on hearsay or anonymous sources.
NC>I think everyone has a right to be heard and the bickering like this
NC>only detracts from the field as a whole.
I disagree. When it occurs strictly over data and its interpretation and not
over personalities, such "bickering" as you call it is quite healthy. It
lays all the cards out on the table and lets us decide strictly on the
merits of the case. As to John's editorial, that's what ParaNet is for. You
certainly seem to have no problem castigating channelers, why deny John the
opportunity to call it the way he sees it?
Jim
* OLX 2.1 TD * "I'll be Bach!" -- Johann Sebastian Schwarzenegger
--
Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Conclusion - Reply from t
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:56:00 GMT
Mike:
In his ramblings, Mathias does bring up one issue that needs to be
addressed: just what IS ParaNet's information/position on Dulce? The report
seems to imply that we have some kind of evidence of a base there, or was
that just some unfortunate wording?
Jim
* OLX 2.1 TD * A ParaNet Point System - Excellence in Ufology since 1986
--
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