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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 482
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 482
Tuesday, October 1st 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Kansas Disappearances
Re: Frederik Bell
Mail
Re: Dave and Doug - The Latest
Re: Tesla & Hungarian
UFO Events Calendar
Bentwater,Uk On Unsolved Mysteries
Kansas disappearances
Implants
Re: ogden object
Donna Butts of Russell, Kansas
Frederik Bell
Re: Dave and Doug - The Latest
Ogden objects
Ogden Objects reply#2
MICAP
Uncritical Thinking About The Lazar Material
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Kansas Disappearances
Date: 28 Sep 91 05:12:00 GMT
Hi Mike,
Can you post the file on Mr. Corder and/or the Kansas missing persons?
Thanks!
Linda
--
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Frederik Bell
Date: 28 Sep 91 05:23:00 GMT
Hi Andre,
Isn't this Fred Bell the one who claims to have worked with Werner von
Braun? He also claims to be in contact (and it sounds like romantic
contact, to me!) with Semjase of Meier fame.
I'm skeptical....
Linda
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Mail
Date: 28 Sep 91 05:25:00 GMT
Hi Keith,
I airmailed a whole envelope of goodies to you this afternoon and I'm
sure you will have it all in a few days.
Regards!
Linda
--
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Dave and Doug - The Latest
Date: 28 Sep 91 05:39:00 GMT
Hi Robert,
The newest issue of TIME magazine (Sept. 23) has a page-long story on
David Chorley and Douglas Bower, but it's great to hear from you
because you are right there.
Anyway, I'll copy this little bit from the article and see if you have
any more to add:
"Delgado's exultation (at seeing the circle) was soon cut short.
Graham Brough, a reporter from the London tabloid TODAY who had alerted
Delgado to the latest apparition, introduced him to two landscape
painters,...(our boys). They had created the Sevenoaks circle while
Brough looked on." It went on to say that they had been doing this for
the past 13 years, amking as many as 25 to 30 new circles each growing
season.
Sure sound like some attempt at disinformation to me!
Robert, if you want a copy of this story, just post an address, and
I'll air snailmail it to you.
Best regards,
Linda Bird
--
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From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: Tesla & Hungarian
Date: 27 Sep 91 11:08:00 GMT
LB>The man who was channeling Tesla (alledgedly) was not
LB>speaking in Hungarian, just in a really thick
LB>Hungarian-type accent. (I was at the BeckleyCon earlier in
LB>this month and attended that particular session.)
Hi Linda. Okay, I get the picture. "Leesen to dem -- dey are de childrrren
of de night! Vhat musik dey maaake..."
I vas valking along de Danube vhith my frriend, Szigety, vhen -- a vision
appeared before us!!! A flash of light, and den ... a man named Otis was
holding a box, a paper box of some kind. It has writing, in English ... how
strange! "Hackensack Alternator Rebuilding Company". "Core charge extra".
And inside de box -- a miracle! A small, polyphase alternating generator!
Then, this godlike Otis holds out de box, offering it to me like some
Prometheus out of time! He says ...
"Wanna buy a '67 Polara?"
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: UFO Events Calendar
Date: 28 Sep 91 17:32:00 GMT
> *********************************
> ****************************************
> * The following are some upcoming events that will focus on UFOs. I
> * share this with you in the hopes that the more people that know the
> * truth, that the truth will be known by more people. I am in no
> * way involved with any of these events and share this for information
> * purposes only. If you know of other UFO-type events, I welcome email
> * in this regards. Enjoy.
> *********************************
Thank you, David. A regular posting like this is very needed here.
> Nov sometime CUFOS
> Santa Barbara Center for Humanistic Studies
> Santa Barbara, CA 93190-1611
They're doing another one? Great! The first one was excellent!
> Col. R. O. Dean, USA, SHAPE UFO Commission
Is this how Command Sergeant Major Robert O. Dean was listed? Interesting....
Jim
--
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Bentwater,Uk On Unsolved Mysteries
Date: 28 Sep 91 17:35:00 GMT
> Also, one of the most interesting facts about this case was the time lag
> of one of the observer's shadow on the UFO from the background lights.
> He noticed that his shadow had about a half second delay lagging behind
> his movements (suggesting some sort of time displacement?????)
What an extremely specific and painstaking observation to make when one is in
the presence of a UFO....where'dya hear this one?
Jim
--
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Kansas disappearances
Date: 28 Sep 91 17:38:00 GMT
> Jim,
> There was a story on this tonite on Inside Edition.
> According to the report produced by Phillip Reeder:
> They were members of a UFO cult headed by Donna Butz and Scott Corder.
> They believe that Bob Dole(a Russel native) will be our last president
> and that the white house will be moved to Russel after armegedden.
> Shortly after the death of Eric Fowlers aunt and group member and group
> member Trudi Fermi.
> Early in September people started dissapearing without a trace, first
> school teacher Marsha Brach (Brock?) and her two daughters (Stephanie
> and Sonje) then Donna Butz the groups leader. Scott Corder also
> disappeared.
> They talked with the roommate of Stephanie and Sonja Brock. Her roommate
> said that the only things missing from the apartment were her toothbrush,
> contact case, and her bible.
> The report ended with the anchor saying that Scott Corder had called
> them, and that he was OK he would not tell them where he was, but said
> he did not know where the four women were. They forwarded that
> information to the Police saying "Best to let them handle it".
> * Origin: ABySS BBS (1:109/134.0)
Thanks for that info, Kay.
--
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Implants
Date: 28 Sep 91 17:45:00 GMT
> In another message to all, you asked about David Jacobs new book.
> It is entitled _Secret Life: The Structure and Meaning of UFO
> Abductions_, and is scheduled to be released in March of '92 by
> Simon and Schuster. It will detail Jacobs' analyses of the more
> than 300 hypnotic regression sessions he has conducted with
> abductees over the past several years. Jacobs also is the recipient
> of a $200,000 grant to conduct a poll to discern the magnitude of
> the abduction phenomenon and to compile a compendium of abduction
> accounts.
$200,000???????????? HEY DAVE! CAN I HELP????????!!!!!
Jim
--
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: ogden object
Date: 29 Sep 91 03:31:00 GMT
Hi Jim,
Will certainly snail the sketches out to you on Monday. Remember, this
is a sketch I did of a photo. But some engineers have been able to
identify it as a "tunnel borer."
Am interested in your opinion. And maybe while I'm at it, I'll dust off
my encyclopedias and see what I can find....
Best,
Linda
--
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Donna Butts of Russell, Kansas
Date: 29 Sep 91 04:01:00 GMT
Here's some information on Donna Butts, who is considered a
"contactee."
(No date given for this event.) She was driving with her
mother-in-law and young sons toward Kansas City to see Donna's husband
in a hsopital. It was after midnight when she left home and is now the
wee hours of the morning on I-170.
Shw was following a larlge truck and as she rounded a curve in the
highway she saw a huge UFO sitting beside the road. The truck driver
has already seen it. The moment Donna's mother-in-law saw the UFO, she
panicked and stepped on the gas. Donna looked out the back and saw a
green light, a beam that hits the highway just behind the car. The
mother-in-law passes the truck and as she does, the green light follows
to hit the truck. The truck disappears! There is no trace of the
truck or any sign that it was ever there.
The women and children speed on, stunned by the sight. Soon they
[assed a group of military vehicles parked beside the highway. When
she tells her husband, he tells he to keep quiet. "Probably some kind
of military thing," he says.
Later in a newspaper, Donna saw 2 short articles. One reports that
several people reported seeing a UFO about the same time she did. The
other tells about a missing truck being located in the middle of a
large field, but the driver has not been found.
This article goes on: Donna started being contacted by being from
another existence (it says). There are boardings on a UFO. Lessons
from the contacts, and projected events for the future. There are
repeated visits from visitors in human form--one materializes right in
from on Donna's daughter. The small girl calls him a "starman" because
he seems to be made up of tiny start lights. Many messages have
references to the Bible.
That's about it. (By the way, I posted this for information. Please
do not consider me a Donna Butts advocate.)
Linda Bird
--
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From: Clark.Matthews@f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Frederik Bell
Date: 29 Sep 91 09:06:00 GMT
> Hello Jim!
> hello All!
>
Howdy, Andre! Wie geht's Ihnen? Hoffentlich wird der Berliner
Luft ein bisschen reiner?
> Did any body know about Dr. Frederik Bell?
>
Habe nichts neues von ihn gehoert. Wer ist er denn?
Sofort schicke ich ein neues WRONG#.ZIP als File-Attach. Lots of new stuff.
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: Dave and Doug - The Latest
Date: 29 Sep 91 09:44:00 GMT
nc>'There is no telephone
nc>number for MBF' (a funny sort of news agency !) (2) They didn't know the
nc>address of MBF (3) the story had been marked 'Copyright MBF Services' to
nc>prevent others publishing copyright material (4) we could reprint whatever we
nc>liked without charge (5) MBF had an address in Shepton Mallet (6) a contact
nc>number for MBF was 0962 - 713843 on the Twyford (Winchester) exchange.
A funny sort of news agency indeed! Personally, I must wonder about the
Today program -- do they routinely give out permissions to reprint other
people's copyright material? Or do they do it only with material they
broadcast from news agencies without telephone numbers???
nc> The Shepton Mallet address is an accommodation address with a firm of
nc>chartered accountants who have MBF as a client. Describing it as a
nc>'Scientific Research and Development Company', they would tell us no
nc>more details about their client. The Twyford number had been discontinued by
nc>last week, and enquiries to British Telecom revealed equal confusion. It
nc>was descibed first as a private residential number, and then as a 'special
nc>exchange number'.
A very special exchange, I'll bet.
nc> Solicitors searches have now revealed that the director of MBF is a certain
nc>Andrew Winsloe Clifford of Maiden Beech Farm, West Crewkerne, Somerset. This,
nc>of course, solves what MBF stands for, but we still need to find out about Mr
nc>Clifford. He and his wife are sole shareholders and the company was first
nc>registered in April 1991. No accounts have been returned so far.
Nor will they be, I'll bet. Any wagers that MBF goes bankrupt before next
April?? Or, alternatively, that the Chartered Accountants go bankrupt
before next April?? Or both???
MOD will need to set up a more plausible entity to debunk the circles by
next planting time. Unless they decide to keep their heads down for a year
until this blows over.
Still, Maiden Beech Farm of West Crewkerne sounds lovely, doesn't it? Too
bad Mr. Clifford & his wife have to move away now. Perhaps they'll go
back to Wiltshire. Somewhere close to RAF Rudloe Manor. It's very pretty,
too.
Robert, thank you for your continued excellent reporting of this thickening
plot! I hope you can continue to chase down the details of this
public-relations debacle in the coming months -- follow-up on MBF, its
principals, the accounting firm, and the hoax hoaxers could lead us to some
very interesting revalations.
Personally, I wish that the UFO groups of the USAF, RAF, RCAF, RAAF, and the
(former) Soviet Air Defense Command could all sit down with the Belgian Air
Defense Command and get knee-walking drunk together. Wouldn't it be
wonderful if they just commiserated for 12 hours and then decided to tell
the truth???
In vino veritas,
Clark
--
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From: Peggy.Noonan@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Ogden objects
Date: 29 Sep 91 16:45:00 GMT
Hello Sheldon,
The points in your message about those Ogden Objects are
well taken. I will try to address each.
First, I do NOT yet have those photos. Guy Kirkwood had
said he would send me photocopies of the original color photos he
has (Linda Bird has seen Guy's photos, so I'm assuming they do
exist) but he has not yet sent them to me. I asked for the
photocopies of the photos first before endorsing the expenditure of
making photographic copies of them. (Why? You'll see in a sec when
I explain about OMNI.)
Right now I know of only one other person who says she has
photos of the same object. Jim Speiser knows her too -- Cheyenne --
and perhaps it is her photos he's planning to digitize, since I have
not yet received the photos myself./
This person also told me that she would send me a copy and
never did, but I think it's more a matter of her having so many
things going on at this time that she's too busy to get to it
rather than a deliberate evasion. If two different people own
copies of the photos and a third person has seen those copies, then
there is some small evidence those photos actually exist, though
it's not hard evidence or absolute proof (when I see them myself,
then I will be able to say they do exist.) What I have seen is a
drawing Linda Bird made from the photo Guy Kirkwood showed her at
the Beckleycon (sp?) a couple of weekends back.
If the photos exist and actually depict the objects
described and drawn, that lends some evidentiary weight to the
story, but the fact that the original source is so difficult to
reach makes me wonder too. I have not yet spoken to this mysterious
person, though I have talked to a person who claims to know this
mystery man and to have spoken directly with him. Thetory is that
the guy is afraid he'd lose his job if he's connected to the tale,
so I've offered complete anonymity if he'll let me speak to him
directly, but so far no result.
Re the OMNI question. You said you'd heard they're on the
story. So has everyone else -- except OMNI's editors. I write for
Omni and have been assigned to do this story for them and they
tell me they don't know who the supposed Omni writers who "everyone
says" have been on this story since it began might be. Could be
people working on spec, could be failure to communicate between
editors, but so far they've remained as elusive as the original
source who worked at the site of the objects' discovery. IF you
hear of a name connected to Omni on this story, I'd appreciate if
you'd pass it along to me. I'd like to talk to whoever this/these
person/people is/are. Perhaps we could stop tripping on each
others' work -- if the others do exist. The story is that these
Omni writers have been harrassing the original source of this story
terribly to the point where he is wary of talking to anyone. Bad
news if true. But suppose they're not really from the magazine
after all? Then who are they? And why are they so ardently
pursuing this? All good reasons to check them out, so if you DO
learn something about them, please let me know.
Because Omni did assign this story to me (I'm a freelancer
who has worked for the magazine for many years now and you can check
with editors there or look at back issues to see my byline to verify
my claim to working for them), I owe them first priority on the
story and pictures. I can speak of general info in the context of
trying to learn more, but I can't ethically give away what they've
hired me to get for them. -- Out of message space, see next one.
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Ogden Objects reply#2
Date: 29 Sep 91 17:01:00 GMT
Part 2
If you've been following the posts here, you've probably
seen my original messages asking for info on the story. Jerry
Decker at KeelyNet apparently was the first person to post something
about it but he doesn't have a lot more info than what you've heard.
1) Location: still undefined. One says 60 miles north of
Ogden. Guy Kirkwood says there "aren't 60 miles of Utah" north of
Ogden, but it's supposed to be IN Utah.
2) Site: supposed to be radioactive waste storage site but
NRC knows of no such site in that area in Utah. Only one is
70-90miles west or Salt Lake.
3) Depth: supposed to have been found at 640 feet deep and
2 objects brought up (these are about 40 feet tall/long, so that's
an enormous hole) but NRC says the typical nuclear waste storage
depth is 150 feet and spokesmen there said they'd never heard of
anyone going deeper than 300 feet, max, for such a site. Casts
doubt on story.
4) Other possible sites have been suggested near the Ogden
one: Amon, Idaho, or the Martin Thiokol plant at northern border of
UT or Nevada. Main sources are adamant it's northern Utah, though.
5) Hierglyphics: supposedly the objects are covered in
them and they look more Arabic than anything else. Linda Bird saw
the photos of them displayed by Guy Kirkwood and she made a tracing
of them and sent a copy of that tracing to me. It does indeed look
Arabic. Kirkwood is supposed to be contacting experts to confirm
this. I suggested he try the Epigraphic Society in San Diego, where
they do specialize in ancient languages and espeially proto-semitic
or pre-Arabic. No word yet on results. The things are not
completely covered in these 'glyphs but mostly covered, Kirkwood
says.
6) Nefilim link: Kirkwood raised this point. He says
they've been dated to a period which ties them in with the Nefilim.
He did not give me any solid info to support that. It appears to be
only a connection he himself is making. I have not confirmed from
him yet whether he spoke of the writings (glyphs) being dated or the
objects being dated. Need more info.
7) Peru: Kirkwood said one person to whom he displayed
these photos asked if they were the objects found in Peru. Kirkwood
didn't know of anythg like this there and the person told him he had
see pictures of what appeared to be an identical object with
identical writings on it found in Peru. No confirmation.
There are other things...connections to ancient tunnels in
Utah, inscriptions on the tunnel walls that match what's on the
objects, the metal (silvery-gray -- looks like steel but is non
ferrous & nonmagnetic) but the bottom line is that until I can speak
to the Original Source on this, there is NO proof of any of it.
I have posted messages here in an effort to track down the
story, to find that proof. I appreciate your healthy skepticism,
and we should all retain a degree of skepticism -- even Kirkwood
says so, and he's got the photos -- until we have some hard evidence.
If there has been any suggestion that I started this story,
that is not correct. I have only been trying to track it down.
If you have further questions, please ask again and I will
try to answer them as best I can.
==PN==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: MICAP
Date: 29 Sep 91 17:21:00 GMT
Hi Mike,
There have been some messages back and forth recently about
MICAP -- I don't have my copy of News.Asc handy, but thought you
might want to post a general info message on the boards so people
will know what MICAP is. (One thought it was a military thing!)
==Peggy==
--
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Uncritical Thinking About The Lazar Material
Date: 30 Sep 91 03:30:00 GMT
* Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
* Originally from Leonard Spani
* Originally dated 09-27-91 12:04
From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani)
Date: 26 Sep 91 22:41:05 GMT
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Message-ID: <1991Sep26.224105.19400@mprgate.mpr.ca>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
I have been thinking recently about the Robert Lazar material relating
to the element-115 antimatter reactors that he claimed to work on at "S-4"
near Groom Lake, Nevada (Dreamland?) The antimatter reactors were alleged to
be the drive source for some of the alien craft studied in a secret U.S.
government base.
While I was tossing the information around in my head assessing it's
validity, I decided to think about some of the possible implications if
it *were* true. For the moment, I considered the information as valid
and tried to see where it would take me.
It was an exercise in uncritical thinking, and I am well aware that
it doesn't prove anything. I'm not trying to sell it to anyone and I don't
mind seeing it ripped to shreds, but it is *fun*, and there is always the
chance that something valid could come about as a result. What I am most
interested in is feedback on the ideas and any current information on the
Lazar material itself. Sorry in advance for the blatantly anthropomorphic
stuff.
Here is some of Lazar's claims (gleaned from net postings and Timothy
Good's book "Alien Liaison"):
- the U.S. government possesses at least 9 different alien space craft and
some 500 lb (kg?) of element-115. 225 grams of element-115 are sufficient
to power a reactor.
- the U.S. government has had "relations" with extraterrestrials who have
cooperated at least partially in the U.S. attempt to use alien technology,
either by providing it or by allowing us to keep what we recovered.
- the reactors produced a gravity wave when protons were fired at element-115.
The gravity wave was then amplified and used to propel the "UFO" around the
universe.
- one method of propulsion was to focus the gravity waves at a distant point
in space and "pull" that point towards the ship together by bending space.
When the gravity was turned off, space would "snap" back into position and
the ship would be in the new position. A new position that may be very,
very far from the original position.
- Lazar claimed that ships using this drive mechanism could travel *much*
faster than the speed of light. (Although technically they wouldn't actually
*travel* from A to B, they would instantaneously "snap" from A to B and
their effective speed (distance/time) would be many times the speed of
light.)
- the element-115 that all of this is supposed to be dependent on is claimed
to be a naturally occurring (very heavy) element, but one that doesn't
naturally occur around our particular point in the immediate universe.
Wild assumptions based on (temporarily) accepting the Lazar material:
(I am also temporarily accepting that there are several other
intelligent civilizations in the universe. The Lazar material hints
at this but doesn't explicitly state it as far as I remember.)
- the speed of light is not a barrier to the effective exploration of space,
it is feasible to travel across galaxies quickly and efficiently.
- human scientists at Lazar's S-4 are capable of understanding the basic
operations of the reactors which are based on an extension of currently
known physics.
- If gravity *can* be used in this way, how long from now would we discover
it, perhaps 100 years (when the electromagnetic, strong, and weak forces are
unified with gravity? :-)
- it seems likely that a given civilization would "discover" the new physics
necessary to design similar craft at a stage of development perhaps only a
hundred or so years in "advance" of our own. Earlier if they were given
examples to play with.
- if the aliens allowed *us* to keep these craft, they probably allow other
civilizations on other planets to retain and analyze similar craft.
- other civilizations could even develop the technology at a point earlier in
their development than us if they had the element-115 occurring naturally on
their planet (imagine if our 1890's physicists had a chunk of the stuff.)
The alien civilization could be traveling in space before they have
developed other technologies.
Yeah, but does it explain anything?
Gross speculation based on wild assumptions generated by temporarily
accepting highly suspect material:
- maybe the little grey buggers really *don't* have a clue about proper
medical procedures. They may not have progressed that far in the medical
department. Maybe they thought hypnotic memory suppression was a good idea
at the time. Maybe they don't mind needles up *their* noses (so why would
we?)
- perhaps the variety of (humanoid) alien body shapes reported over the years
(fairies/gnomes as well) is the result of the huge number of different alien
civilizations all traveling around the universe at the same time.
(The ammonia-sucking jellyfish would presumably travel to ammonia rich
planets, leaving the humanoid's to visit "humanoid-friendly" planets :-)
- perhaps some of the aliens are not advanced enough to avoid crashing their
saucers.
- the aliens may not be advanced enough to avoid contradicting themselves.
("Pictures are forbidden" - "Hey come here, get your camera")
- different groups of aliens could have very different motives, good and bad.
Imagine what the CIA would do 100 years from now if we had mastered
interstellar travel. Would our motives, methods, morals, ethics, and nature
change that drastically in 100 years. The insignias and uniforms witnessed on
UFO occupants could be their equivalent of the CIA.
- maybe the observed cultural tracking of UFO shapes takes place because they
are still coming out with newer, more advanced models. Maybe even borrowing
from our technology (or attempting to blend in.)
- with so many alien civilizations capable of flying around the universe, there
could be some kind of cosmic "police force" that enforces universal laws
against interfering with "primitive" cultures ala "Star Trek". Any aliens
we see or contact would therefore be rebels.
- SETI may not have found evidence of extraterrestrial life because the
aliens have arrived several million years before their radio signals.
- the *really* advanced civilizations probably *don't* get caught.
I better quit before I lose all sense of reality.
Hey - maybe this is how the National Enquirer comes up with their stuff :-)
--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) |
| spani@tartarus.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t |
***********************************************************************
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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