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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 471

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Info ParaNet Newsletters
 · 11 months ago

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 471 

Thursday, September 5th 1991

Today's Topics:

Hudson Valley Tape
Re: ussr
Re: How old are the 'greys'?
Re: Epilepsy & Dogs
Re: CATTLE MUTILATIONS
Hi!
Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3]
Re: Hudson Valley Tape
Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3]
Re: Hudson Valley Tape
Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3]
VISIT/NASA
Visit/nasa
Re: VISIT/NASA
Re: Hudson Valley Tape
Re: ALIEN LIAISON
Re: New UFO Titles!
Re: UFO Conference in Orlando
Re: Mysterious Roar Heard By Some...
crop circles in Science

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Hudson Valley Tape
Date: 3 Sep 91 04:54:00 GMT

Hi Linda --

So, like, what did you think of the radio show? Did you ever get to hear
it? Those turkeys had us come in at 9:30 and didn't put us on until
10:40. They'll be sending me a tape in case you missed it.

I wanna ask you and Loren a favor. It relates to the correspondence I am
having with one Maury Markowitz over on SCIENCE echo. I cross posted his
last message onto ParaNet UFO, and we are all having a good laugh about
it.

Basically Maury and I have been going back and forth for a year and a
half about the Hudson Valley video. If you haven't seen it, it depicts a
circle of white lights followed by one blinking red one. The white
lights appear to be rotating slowly in relation to the red one. There is
no sound, save for the couple who filmed it bantering back and forth. I
maintain that whatever it is, it can NOT be a formation of light
aircraft. There are several dozen reasons for this, but all I need tell
you at this point is that the ST (terminal summary) for that night
showed winds at 10G28 (10 kts gusting to 28). There is not the
slightest variation in the formation, no jockeying for position, etc.
This is further borne out by another tape made by the same couple of a
true formation of aircraft, which was an attempt by some anonymous
pilots to show the locals that all they were seeing was a bunch of
airplanes. In this tape, the engine noise and the variations in the
formation are evident.

Mr. Markowitz counters that not only can the "UFO" tape be a formation
of planes, but that it DEFINITELY IS a formation of planes, and he even
goes so far as to claim to be certain that it is a flight of 152's. (He
originally said they were 182's, but he says his flying club buddies
convinced him otherwise.) I am completely incredulous at this. I flat out
refuse to believe that anyone can identify an aircraft type by looking
at a fifth- or sixth- generation video of a bunch of white lights - which
he says are the cockpit lights - against a completely black background.
Maybe - just MAYBE - you could tell high-wing vs. low-wing. But this
business of arguing whether they are 182's vs. 152's is an exercise in
aviation hubris. I can barely tell the difference in DAYLIGHT, fer
chrissakes!

SO...what I had in mind was this. I want to challenge Mr. Markowitz to
an old-fashioned scientific test, kinda like the ones the Amazing Randi
was so adept at. I need some help devising exactly what I want to do,
but it would be along the lines of taping several aircraft at night and
asking him to identify them. All he will see will be their cabin lights.
I think it should be done on a cloudy night, so that there is no
background from which to judge size, speed, etc. (I am told that there
IS a starry background in the HV video, but it is not evident from the
copy I sent Maury).

By way of posting this message publicly, I am asking other ParaNet users
to help me devise the test. When we're ready to roll, I wondered if you
guys might be interested in making arrangements with some local flying
club to do the flights? Mr. Markowitz will no doubt counter that, how
does he know that I will label the various sequences properly? and I'd
like to have a ParaNet user certify that everything is on the up and up.
"I was present at the taping and participated in the flight
arrangements, and I hereby certify that sequence 2 is the 152"
or
whatever.

While you're at it, I would like to arrange for a flying club to view
the HV tape and tell me whether or not it could possibly be light
aircraft in formation. (Which I suppose is the larger point of this
whole exercise, anyway).

Whaddya say?

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG



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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: ussr
Date: 3 Sep 91 06:14:00 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <08-30-91 14:40> Danny Brandenburg wrote:

DB> >we came across some reliable reports that indicate the evidence
DB> I must first ask your criteria for "reliable". Were the reports from
DB> respected scientists? Were they from locals? Children?

It is my understanding that there were several dozen reports from locals in
that area that may have pre-dated the report that became famous via Tass,
ie, the pinheaded beings reported by children. Its possible that this report
was the result of local media exposure exciting the imaginations of children
in the area.

DB>
DB> > sources include Antonio Huneeus and articles in UFO magazine.
DB> Since I am new to this group I must ask about Antonio Huneeus.

He is a highly respected UFO journalist in NYC, the son of a Chilean
diplomat, who specializes in sighting reports from South America and
overseas. He can be counted on to be level-headed in his reporting, to quote
sources reliably, and to retract unhesitantly information which turns out to
be false.

DB> Who is he (sorry)? I would also like to know how articles in UFO
DB> Magazine get there. I mean, are the articles submitted by anyone or
DB> are their professional writers that are employed (no contracted) by
DB> UFO Magazine? Also, what are the backgrounds of the writers (ie.
DB> scientists, fiction writers, new agers, psychologists...)?
DB> Just wanting some clarification,

For that it is best to wait for a response from UFO Magazine itself, which
I'm sure will be forthcoming on this echo shortly.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: How old are the 'greys'?
Date: 3 Sep 91 05:27:00 GMT

nc>How old is the classic 'grey' description?
nc>
nc>I have in my posession a comic book dated April, 1967 (Flying Saucers,
nc>#1 DELL). The aliens are depicted as being pale white, with large
nc>heads, and large eyes. They are short in stature and look very much
nc>like what we would call a 'grey'; too much to be a coincidence.


The American Indians have stories of beings that fit the Dell description to
a T. The Native American ledgends of these critters (which were always
nasty prankster) a many hundreds of years old.

Somewhere on my BBS there's a file called "WHEEL.ZIP" that describes the
AmerInd ledgends of the "pranksters".

Also, check out some of Vallee's books, especially Passport to Magonia. The
parallels between present=day UFO lore and the ancient tales of Sylphs,
Fawns, Leprechauns, Elementals and other creatures. The similarities are
sometimes striking...

Best,
Clark

--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: Epilepsy & Dogs
Date: 3 Sep 91 05:35:00 GMT

SR>Tesla claimed that
SR>CM>he could "hear" his EM radiation...
SR>
SR>'Ringing in the ears' is more likely the possibility.
SR>

Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk.

Do you think the whole idea is ridiculous?

Best,
Clark

--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: CATTLE MUTILATIONS
Date: 3 Sep 91 05:56:00 GMT

TM> What gets to me about those cattle mutilations is the great care to do
TM> it so quickly and efficiently. If satanists are the cause, as is
TM> implied at times, why do they take such great care to drain every drop
TM> of blood, to remove organs without significant mutilation of the rest
TM> of the body. A mutilation done by satanists would (in my opinion) be
TM> a lot more messy and crude.
TM>

I've heard & read some pretty wild explanations for Cattle Mutes, but the
Satanist explanations are particularly absurd. One explanation involved
three groups of Satanists equipped with a large helicopter, night-vision
equipment, and state-of-the-art surgical equipment. The Satanists required
the night vision equipment to locate the animal, the mobile surgical unit to
mutilate it, and the helicopter to leave the carcass in a *tree*.

Satanists are no more capable of setting up such an operation (M*S*S*H --
Mobile Satanist Surgical Hospital???) than they are of doing good works.
Based on the sort of stuff that's been done in the name of Satan here,
they'd allow the animal to suffer (*not* tranquilize it), butcher it in the
crudest, most amateurish way (no lasers, sorry), and they'd take some
measures to *hide* the carcass.

Also, cows might conceivably be sacrificed by some screwy Zionist groups
(although I've never heard of this being done -- their rabbis are still
arguing over trying the right kind of red heifers to kill. At last
report, they had sent a delegation to NORWAY to find the right red cows
to slash & burn.) But "Satanists" seem partial to targets of opportunity:
Dogs, cats, goats, sheep, small game, etc. They're most likely to use stray
animals or neighbor's pets in my experience. Only one "satanist" group I'm
aware of demanded a particuar type of animal sacrifice (German Shepards) and
these people obtained their animals by answering newspaper ads, local pet
shelters, and ultimately by infiltrating the local ASPCA.

4 what it's worth...

--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Hi!
Date: 4 Sep 91 05:29:00 GMT


Hi Peggy! Just a note to let you know that I'm back from the
weekend, and got your messages. You've got full file access &
some email waiting.

Best,
Clark


--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3]
Date: 4 Sep 91 04:30:00 GMT

RE: in other words it can't be explained
No, I dont' see any other way to "explain" it either. It's the old
catch-22, if you can't explain it then that somehow means you must
accept someone else's explanation.

--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape
Date: 4 Sep 91 04:59:00 GMT

RE: Cockpit lights
It didn't hit me when I read it but what pilot in his right mind would
be running at night in formation and turn on WHITE BRIGHT cockpit
lights???? The last thing you would want at night in an airplane is to
turn on anything but the dim intrument illumination lights lest you
blind yourself to other aircraft. I don't even think a 152 has cockpit
lights of the type that would provide that sort of illumination, I
think is just has downward focussed spot lights likethe reading lights
in commercial aircraft. I really dont think they would show up much on
a video tape.

--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3]
Date: 4 Sep 91 05:23:00 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <09-03-91 21:30> Jim Delton wrote:

JD> RE: in other words it can't be explained
JD> No, I dont' see any other way to "explain" it either. It's the old
JD> catch-22, if you can't explain it then that somehow means you must
JD> accept someone else's explanation.

That may well be the implication, but Maury seemed to be saying that the
narrator was over-interpreting Hibbs' statement. I maintain that Hibbs was
merely doing verbal gymnastics to try NOT to say that it was unexplained,
when that is in fact what he meant.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape
Date: 4 Sep 91 05:28:00 GMT

Never having flown a 152 at night, I really couldn't say. Its been so long
since I've flown, I can't even remember if it HAD an interior light. My
instincts tell me you're right though, whatever it is would not be all that
bright.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3]
Date: 2 Sep 91 19:00:00 GMT


> Did Mr. Markowitz view the same tape as I did??? How did he manage to
> make out what any of the "planes" were going so far as identifing the
> lead plane as a 182 and the rest as 152's (and not 150's !!)????
> He messages seemed to get more and more disjointed as he went on too.
> As to the supposed absence of further HV UFO reports after the FAA
> warned to pilots to stop - I didn't think there had been a cessation of
> further reports?? He may be right in his criticism of the lack of
> followup and/or good documentation of just exactly what JPL did and
> didn't do in the way of analysis and written reports. The lack of
> written reports from the "experts" seems common unfortunately with far
> too many "facts" and analysis seemingly being mostly word of mouth and
> off the cuff stuff.

Markowitz is disjointed. I have had discussions with him and got nowhere.
Something that is not going to happen with a guy like him either. It is like
a Phil Klass incarnate.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: EBay.Sun.COM!Michael.Miller
Subject: VISIT/NASA
Date: 4 Sep 91 17:03:59 GMT

From: Michael.Miller@EBay.Sun.COM (Michael Miller - Rev. Admin.)


A while back I posted a question about VISIT and didn't get much response.

So I thought I would give a little information I have on it and then drop
the subject. So if anyone should come across it again, maybe they will pick
up some more information about it.

VISIT (Vehicle Internal Systems Investigation Team) is a branch of research
being done by NASA to discover the motive power of UFO's. They hypnotize
abductees and question them about the technical aspects of the ships they
were in, etc. Through these sources NASA is gaining an understanding of how
these UFO's work.

This is basically what VISIT is and what it does.

If anyone else has heard of anything, I would be interested to hear what you
have.

-mdm




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Visit/nasa
Date: 4 Sep 91 21:24:00 GMT


> From: EBay.Sun.COM!Michael.Miller
> Date: 4 Sep 91 17:03:59 GMT
> Message-ID: <14368@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM>
> Newsgroups: info.paranet
>
> From: Michael.Miller@EBay.Sun.COM (Michael Miller - Rev. Admin.)


I am checking on this through a NASA source. I will post the results.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: VISIT/NASA
Date: 5 Sep 91 04:52:00 GMT

nc>A while back I posted a question about VISIT and didn't get much response.
nc>

Hi Michael. Forgive us -- I haven't heard of VISIT and chose not to
advertise my ignorance. Sorry.

nc>VISIT (Vehicle Internal Systems Investigation Team) is a branch of research
nc>being done by NASA to discover the motive power of UFO's. They hypnotize
nc>abductees and question them about the technical aspects of the ships they
nc>were in, etc. Through these sources NASA is gaining an understanding of how
nc>these UFO's work.
nc>

Okay, now you can be assured that you have everyone's attention.

Do you know:

1) Is NASA *actually* conducting these sessions with abductees? Or do the
abductees simply *believe* that they're dealing with NASA?

2) Is NASA working with any acknowledged abduction researchers in this work?

3) Does NASA find abductees through these researchers? Or are the abductees
contacted *independently* of any abduction researcher? (In other words, is
NASA getting help from abduction experts, or is "NASA" monitoring their
phone conversations & contacting their subjects independently?

4) How long has NASA been in the UFO-building business? Alternatively, how
long has the "UFO-building business" been associated with NASA?

5) Since NASA can't find the money to redesign the Space Station (and
Congress won't appropriate it), where do they get the funds to pursue this
project? Or is it just an UnFunded Opportunity?

6) Who *funds* these UnFunded Opportunities, anyway?


Feel free to answer any, all, or none of the above.

Have you read Blum's book Out There? He makes direct reference to NASA
fronts for "other" activities.

Thank you for a very interesting contribution! Can you tell us anything
about where you heard this from?

Best,

Clark

--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape
Date: 5 Sep 91 05:40:00 GMT

Hi Jim,

Have captured your message to show to Loren. Getting late now, so will
try to do it tomorrow.

I read all that banter written by Maury and he sounded like a jerk to
me! How indeed could he know all that? There are only 2 planes that I
was able to identify by the sound of their engines: (1) a Skymaster
which was a twin-engine with the engines in tandum, and (2) a Baron,
because their engines sounded so obnoxious!!

And, Jim Delton is right--pilots do not turn on white cabin lights as
it can cause night blindness and disorientation.

I'll be at Beckley's UFO/New Age whooppeee-do on Sunday afternoon to
catch the 2-5 o'clock speakers (thought for a sec they were on Saturday,
so guess I won't see you after all...) Maybe I can see ya Monday at E.V.

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: ALIEN LIAISON
Date: 5 Sep 91 05:45:00 GMT

Hi Pete,

I'll have to send you all 3 articles. The one from MUFON isn't
complete until you have seen the other 2. (Actually, one is just a
one-page blurb from the l989 Proceedings from MUFON; the other is
a lengthy article on Big Bob from UFO Universe Magazine.)

Look for a snail...

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: New UFO Titles!
Date: 5 Sep 91 05:49:00 GMT

Hi Paul,

No problem aaabout waiting to see if "Magonia" is available. And I
understand that you have to ask for postage....

I'm in no hurry (back at work again, teaching) so time is limited.{
I'm a patient person.

Thanks a lot!

Linda

PS. Didn't need those other books at this time.

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: UFO Conference in Orlando
Date: 5 Sep 91 05:55:00 GMT

Hi John,

Well, this weekend features a big UFO conference here. I could not get
excited by the speakers for the most part. They put a woo-woo New Age
speaker on with a serious researcher. How stupid! Who wants to see
Max the Crystal Skull along with Larry Warren of Bentwaters fame???

I finally decided to go to the Sunday afternoon forum. It was the best
I could do, and I will report back next week on my findings.

Regards,

Linda


--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: acodkris.larc.nasa.gov!MITCHELL
Subject: Re: Mysterious Roar Heard By Some...
Date: 5 Sep 91 13:36:21 GMT

From: MITCHELL@ACODKRIS.LARC.NASA.GOV

John Hicks posted:

+ Also note that the two small swirled circles found in Shoreline Park in Gulf
+Breeze were found the day after a 'skyquake.' What they're calling a skyquake
+is a 10-15 sec. very low rumble that rattles doors etc, but there's no seismic
+trace, and no one acknowledges flying supersonic anywhere nearby.
+ I experienced two back in the early '80s when I lived about 200 miles east of
+Pensacola. Rather eerie. The ground doesn't shake, but walls, doors, windows
+etc. do.

I don't claim to have any answers, but I know that high-performance aircraft
can generate that kind of phenomenon without actually flying.

At Langley AFB in Hampton, VA, there are approximately 1/2 a zillion F-15's
based. To test the installed and uninstalled engines, a 'hush house' is used.
This is a small hangar-type building with a long tube out of one side for
the exhaust. The tube (several feet in diameter) ends in a 45-degree ramp,
that deflects the jet exhaust up and away from the immediate surroundings.
While the *exhaust* is deflected, the forces on the deflector set up large-
amplitude, low-frequency vibrations that aren't deflected and can be felt for
miles. There have been several occassions where people in the community have ]
reported rattling walls and windows, and things falling off of shelves because
of these vibrations.

I'm not saying that this is what causes the mysterious roars, but it seems
that something like this could be responsible.

Kerry Mitchell
mitchell@acodkris.larc.nasa.gov
- or -
mitchell@acodvax.larc.nasa.gov




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: violet.berkeley.edu!chalmers
Subject: crop circles in Science
Date: 5 Sep 91 13:36:34 GMT

From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.)

There is a two page article on British crop circles in the
News and Comments section of the August 30, 1991 issue
of Science, the journal of the AAAS. The article
sympathetically discusses the theories and
investigations of Terence Meaden on atmospheric vortices and
the plasma fireball theories of Yoshihiko Ohtsuki form Waseda
University near Tokyo. Also mentioned is Ohtsuki's article
about miniature fireballs in the March 14, 1991 issue of Nature.

I stress this is not a research paper but rather scientific
reportage. It is, however, even-handed and well-balanced and
gives the names of other scientists who both support and challenge
these investigators. Meaden himself acknowledges that many
circles are apparently hoaxes, but he has investigated around 1000
circles in Britain. There are two pictures of circles (one with
Meaden inside) and a diagram of a 1986 Minnesota tornado that
appears to have created a vortex ring of some sort. The
relationship to the circles is not made clear, however

This issue also has an original research paper on the possible
differences of the brains of heterosexual men and both women
and homosexual men. The N&C section has a longish discussion
of this topic as well. There is also a note about the National
Academy of Sciences' plans to study the relation between
electromagnetic fields (EMF) and cancer. Other items of interest
include a successful test of a crucial part of modern evolutionary
theory, and an editorial on how badly written laws and regulations
have crippled environmental cleanup, wasting about 40% of the
money so far on legal fees.
--- John




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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************


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