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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 475
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 475
Monday, September 16th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: crop circle hoax: a hoax in itself?
Re: UFO Conference in Orlando
Re: UFO Conference in Orl
September 18th 'Unsolved Mysteries'
Hudson Valley UFO
circles again
meteors and auroras
Re : How old are the 'greys'?
Re: HUDSON VALLEY TAPE
PRESS RELEASE
Paranet Headquarters?
Re: Hudson Valley Tape
Re: Mutilations
Circles Again
Re: Leslie Watkins/alternative Iii
HVUFO Round 3
HVUFO Round 3 [1/3]
HVUFO Round 3 [2/3]
HVUFO Round 3 [3/3]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: crop circle hoax: a hoax in itself?
Date: 12 Sep 91 05:37:00 GMT
Hi Jim,
You asked "what other bothersome individual, loosely connected with the
UFO phenomenon does this remind you of?"
Ed Walters?
Whatcha say?
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: UFO Conference in Orlando
Date: 12 Sep 91 05:38:00 GMT
Hi John,
See what I added to Jim Speiser's remarks about the "BeckleyCon."
<:-)
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: UFO Conference in Orl
Date: 12 Sep 91 05:41:00 GMT
Hi Tyson,
See my response to Jim Speiser about Sunday's "BeckleyCon" that I went
to. Thanks!
<:-)
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vanth!jms
Subject: September 18th 'Unsolved Mysteries'
Date: 12 Sep 91 13:32:05 GMT
From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer)
The season premier of NBC's 'Unsolved Mysteries' is next Wednesday,
September 18th, and there will be a segment on the Bentwaters/Rendlesham
case.
--
* From the disk of: |>>>>> back at the old feed <<<<<| We're only immortal
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | for a limited time.
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@amix.commodore.com |
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, 'Dreamline')
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vanth!jms
Subject: Hudson Valley UFO
Date: 12 Sep 91 13:32:19 GMT
From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer)
To: John Hicks
+ Interesting. You do know that Phil I. tracked some ultralights to a small
+airstrip, right? I have a file from him here somewhere, if you want it. It's
+about a year or so old, but might have a bearing.
You mean the same file I have, where he tracked them to some sort of
military base with a secret area that he couldn't determine the function
of? Not to mention the cattle the FDA kept there?
--
* From the disk of: |>>>>> back at the old feed <<<<<| We're only immortal
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | for a limited time.
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@amix.commodore.com |
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, 'Dreamline')
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vanth!jms
Subject: circles again
Date: 12 Sep 91 13:32:32 GMT
From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer)
There was an AP article today about a man in North Carolina who says that
while he believes the British circles with all the fancy designs are a
hoax, he has some plain circles that he thinks were really caused by wind
or something. A terribly boring and obvious article, except for a couple
of odd paragraphs at the end:
In North Dakota, Sharon Wagner says a series of mysterious circles
that showed up in a hay field on her family's farm north of Bismarck
three years ago are still plainly visible.
'We don't have any real explanation for it one way or another,'
she said.
(Quoted without permission for research purposes only.)
--
* From the disk of: |>>>>> back at the old feed <<<<<| We're only immortal
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | for a limited time.
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@amix.commodore.com |
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, 'Dreamline')
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vanth!jms
Subject: meteors and auroras
Date: 12 Sep 91 13:32:46 GMT
From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer)
+From: James Roger Black <jrblack@uiowa.edu>
+
+For a long time people have claimed they could 'hear' meteors streaking
+across the sky, describing the sound as a hissing or crackling 'like bacon
+frying'. Such claims were dismissed by orthodox science as obviously
+absurd, since the objects in question were much too far away (typically
+tens of miles or more). Turns out that, in fact, what people were hearing
+was not the actual sound of meteors screaming through the air but rather
+the electromagnetic disturbance they create, which was operating directly
+on the observers' nervous system. (I believe this was discussed several
+months ago in Science News, but I don't have the reference anymore.)
I remember seeing this discussed somewhere also. I heard a meteor about
ten years ago, but I don't remember what I thought about it then.
There was an article about auroras in The Old Farmer's Almanac a few years
ago. It said that some people who live in the far north claim that auroras
make noise. I figure it's probably a similar mechanism to that of the
meteors. What really caught my eye about the article was not that, but an
Eskimo legend that the aurora would sometimes descend to earth and carry
someone away, never to be seen again!
--
* From the disk of: |>>>>> back at the old feed <<<<<| We're only immortal
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | for a limited time.
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@amix.commodore.com |
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, 'Dreamline')
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cwns2.INS.CWRU.Edu!al463
Subject: Re : How old are the 'greys'?
Date: 13 Sep 91 03:35:20 GMT
From: al463@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher A. Joseph)
Linda Bird,
In a message to me, you write:
+Subject: Re: How old are the 'greys'?
+Date: 2 Sep 91 22:52:00 GMT
+
+Hi Chris,
+
+Would you please send me a copy of one-two pages of that comic book you
+have showing the 'gray alien?' I'll be happy to send $ome ca$h to
+defray the postage and copy cost. Can you give me an address, or do
+you want mine first?
+
+Thanks, and best regards,
+
+Linda
Don't worry about the $. I'll do the copying at work and stamps don't
cost that much, anyway. If you want, I could scan a picture of one of
the aliens, save it as a .GIF, compress it, UUENCODE it, and e-mail
it to you (whew :-), as well as mail you the xeroxes. This is the
first time I have posted a message to the newsletter after having
read it for about 4 months. I have always been interested in UFOlogy,
this is my first chance to participate.
Nice to meet you,
Chris Joseph
3213 Clague Rd.
North Olmsted, OH. 44070
(I sent this to your fido/Internet address last week. Apparently it
didn't get there. Sorry.)
Chris
--
Christopher A. Joseph (Chris)|'You can go wrong by being too skeptical
al463@cleveland.freenet.edu |as readily as by being too trusting'L.L.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
'!ELUR sebboH dna nivlaC' << Subliminal Message | FNORD!| Praise "Bob"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Schuyler@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: HUDSON VALLEY TAPE
Date: 11 Sep 91 05:25:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <09-05-91 22:39> Pete Porro wrote:
PP>
PP> OK maybe they can tell something in the daylight, I don't
PP> for telling a 182 from a 152 against a similar sky, under
PP> same conditions. I'd like to see them do it. I hope this
PP> challenge flys... (BTW what's a 182?)
A 182 is a "big" 152, i.e.: same style with wings over. It's hefty and often
used in skydiving. Another typical use is as a seaplane. The 182 has been
around a long time.
--
Michael Schuyler - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Schuyler@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker)
Subject: PRESS RELEASE
Date: 12 Sep 91 14:30:00 GMT
The following press release was sent by UFO Magazine to AP, UPI, CNN, and
several more of the large news agencies.
**************************************************************************
PRESS RELEASE
Sept. 11, 1991
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Don Ecker
(818) 951-1250
Two Britons, Dave Chorley and Doug Bower, just claimed to the
world that they hoaxed the strange phenomenon called "crop
circles," inexplicable and often elaborate shapes laid out with
near-perfect precision in the wheat and rye fields of southern
England.
ALL circles a hoax? Absolute nonsense, counter the
responsible, serious students of the phenomenon, who have been
quick to point out the fallacies of the two men's claim.
"It would be impossible for any human to make some of the more
complex circles, which show drastic depressions in the fields
without damaging crop stalks whatsoever," comments Vicki Cooper,
editor and co-publisher of UFO Magazine, a bi-monthly publication
out of California.
"An excess of 1,000 circles appeared in 1990 alone," Cooper
says. "If you take a 3-month period and divide it by the 1000-plus
circles, that would come out to approximately 12 circles a night--
impossible! Many have appeared in other countries, too. Now that's
quite a trick!" The current issue of UFO is specially themed around
the crop circle enigma.
Chorley and Bower appeared to have pulled the plug on the
mystery when they "confessed" to having made the circles by pulling
flat planks across the crop fields.
"If anyone looks closely at the evidence and then pauses to
think for a moment, they'd realize just how ludicrous these claims
are," says Cooper.
So far the circles continue to defy explanation, say the
experts, though some have pointed to UFOs.
Why would anyone make such an incredible hoax claim? "It could
be disinformation, it could be a huge joke," Cooper comments. "We
see that sort of thing all the time in the UFO field."
-30-
END OF PRESS RELEASE
--
Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Damien.Barkan@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Damien Barkan)
Subject: Paranet Headquarters?
Date: 11 Sep 91 03:21:52 GMT
Can someone give the the phone number of the Paranet headquarters node
(Michael Corbin?)? I haven't been able to locate any still-existing
Paranet nodes from the list I obtained from my local node.
Thanks
--
Damien Barkan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Damien.Barkan@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Schuyler@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape
Date: 13 Sep 91 16:52:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Delton <09-08-91 13:57> John Hicks wrote:
JH> right mind would
JH> > be running at night in formation and turn on WHITE
JH> BRIGHT cockpit
JH> > lights????
JH>
JH> Now that you mention it, I've never seen an illuminated
JH> airplane cockpit, and I live right under approaches for two
JH> airports.
That would be a really stupid thing to do unless you were rated for IFR. If
you turn on the lights inside the cockpit, you can't see outside.
--
Michael Schuyler - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Schuyler@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Mutilations
Date: 7 Sep 91 14:17:00 GMT
* Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
* Originally from Jeff Later
* Originally dated 09-06-91 17:58
From: jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later)
Date: 6 Sep 91 16:05:54 GMT
Organization: WINCO
Message-ID: <1991Sep06.160554.3040@pmafire.inel.gov>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
In article <davidj.684102730@wrs.com> davidj@wrs.com (David Jones) writes:
>I recently spent some time with Linda Moutlen-Howe, who is the
>public world's leading authority on cattle mutilations.
>While I spoke with Linda, a FedEx pouch came in with close-up
>photographs of the latest mutilations in Virginia, which had
>happened 10 days before. It is continuing ....
Here's another "Fedex pouch" for you: This was in last night's,(9/5/91),
Idaho Falls, Idaho newspaper:
"Donnelly Valley County authorities are puzzled by the bizarre death of a horse
found mutilated in a pasture near Donnelly. The 14- year old mare was found
last Friday lying on its side. All of its blood had been drained. The
animal's
neck and lips had been cut cleanly. No drops of blood or tracks were found
around the carcass and there were no signs of gunshot wounds......."
"The incident is the latest in a series of animal mutilations in Idaho, across
the country and in other parts of the world, said Linda Moulton Howe, a former
Boise resident, who has investigated the subject for 11 years......."
_____________________________________________________________________________
||++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|++++++++++++++++++++++++++||
||Jeff B. Later WB7TZA (jeffl@pmafire.inel.gov) | "I have become ||
||**"Disclaimer, Disclaimer, where's my lawyer!** | comfortably numb" ||
|| | Pink Floyd ||
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Circles Again
Date: 14 Sep 91 14:48:00 GMT
* Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
* Originally from Jim Shaffer
* Originally dated 09-12-91 12:06
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Date: 12 Sep 91 03:36:20 GMT
Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence
Message-ID: <jms.6289@vanth.UUCP>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
There was an AP article today about a man in North Carolina who says that
while he believes the British circles with all the fancy designs are a
hoax, he has some plain circles that he thinks were really caused by wind
or something. A terribly boring and obvious article, except for a couple
of odd paragraphs at the end:
In North Dakota, Sharon Wagner says a series of mysterious circles
that showed up in a hay field on her family's farm north of Bismarck
three years ago are still plainly visible.
"We don't have any real explanation for it one way or another,"
she said.
(Quoted without permission for research purposes only.)
--
* From the disk of: |>>>>> back at the old feed <<<<<| We're only immortal
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | for a limited time.
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@amix.commodore.com |
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, "Dreamline")
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Re: Leslie Watkins/alternative Iii
Date: 14 Sep 91 16:55:00 GMT
Hi Jim,
Did you ever get the reply I posted to your message to me
about the file you had on Alternative III? I phoned your BBS # and
got no answer several times, and once a voice reply (I had already
hit the hangup button before I realized I could've spoken to the
girl, sorry!)
I also was VERY interested in what you were going to say
about the Ogden objects and have been hoping to hear from you on
that. If you didn't get my messages, maybe I should try another
way...
Peggy
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: HVUFO Round 3
Date: 14 Sep 91 21:00:00 GMT
Re: Following messages
Methinks I've got this Maury guy on the ropes. Any comments before I finish
him off?
I haven't had this much fun since I threw Cooper off of ....<ahem>....
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: HVUFO Round 3 [1/3]
Date: 14 Sep 91 21:30:00 GMT
Round 3 part 1
Cross-posted from SCIENCE
(19763) Thu 12 Sep 91 10:42a
By: Maury Markowitz
To: Jim Speiser
Re: Re: UFO Tape
St: Rcvd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
@EID:43e5 172c5551
@MSGID: 1:250/712 28cf8aea
JS> I still like you, Maury, and I'm very glad you made it public. You'll
JS> see why in a moment.
Good to hear.
JS> All of which says that some pilots were very interested in the UFOs.
JS> Maury, ALL the pilot activity you mention above took place AFTER the
JS> initial spate of object sightings, at least as far as we know.
From what I understand, the sighting of the object that the
police officer chased (that turned out to be planes) happened near
the very beginning of the events.
JS> This is absolute nonsense. I am assured by several people that there
JS> is
JS> no way to make a positive identification of an airplane type based on
JS> a
JS> formation of singular white lights on a black background.
Perhaps I mistated the case. When all of this started, all you
did was ask me to take the tape to professional pilots and see if
they thought that the object could be planes... this I did and
they agreed. Somewhere in the conversation, I pointed to the
lights and said something to the effect,
"See the lights like that, it looks like NBW!" [a 182 that I jump
from]
and one of the guys...
"No, it looks more like a 152, because they have the small windows
behind the cockpit that would cause the second light"
So, this is not by any means a "positive identification"{, and at
no point did I EVER state that it was. You asked me to take it to
pilots (all the pilots at the club are Commertial Pilots, with full
ratings, multi-engine, IFR etc, one is an air-ambulance pilot)
which I did, they said that it could be planes. PERIOD.
JS> challenge you to prove your claim. A simple scientific test of your
JS> powers of aircraft identification is, at this moment, being devised by
JS> some of my comrades on ParaNet. We're itching to administer it to you.
JS> Are you game?
Perhaps you cannot read. I stated "probibly" etc in the letter
to you. I have no such claims to aircraft identification, and do
not feel that I could pass your test at all. I said "hmmm, they
look like 182
's to me", they said "nope, looks more like 152's". If anything, I
have said nothing except that my powere of nightime aircraft
identification are NOT very good!
I KNEW I was getting myself in over my head when you first wrote
to me, I even said that on the net several time. Jim, I have
little or no interest in this subject. My personaly feelings
asside, I'd rather not be deluged by materials from ParaNet, and
don't want to put in more than the couple of hours I've spent so
far on it.
This whole thing started when I stated that I had read the
Discover article that seemed to make it look silly to the extreme.
Your response was the challenge. Now you want another challenge?
When will it end?
cont...
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: HVUFO Round 3 [2/3]
Date: 14 Sep 91 21:32:00 GMT
Round 3 Part 2
Cross posted from SCIENCE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(19764) Thu 12 Sep 91 10:54a
By: Maury Markowitz
To: Jim Speiser
Re: Re: UFO Tape
St: Rcvd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
@EID:43e5 172c56d0
@MSGID: 1:250/712 28cf8db8
JS> Excuse me, but how do YOU interpret Prof. Hibbs' admittedly
JS> obfuscatory
JS> statement? If he DID have a reason to give an explanation, don't you
JS> think he would have given one? He is a member of CSICOP, after all,
Admittedly obfuscatory statement? Where in the statement did he
admit to being obfuscatory? I didn't see anything like that. All
I have is what you sent me Jim, if you're going to pull other
statements out of the air, you'll have to at least tell me where
they are coming from. The person on the tape specifically stated
that he had no proof one way or the other.
Let me ask YOU this, have you talked to this person? Have you
asked him his OPINION? His opinion is probibly MUCH different than
what he stated, one way OR the other, I'll not say which. What I
saw on the tape was a very well edited conversation, that made it
sound like he had no idea, which he probibly doesn't. However, he
also stated that he was NOT going to say that these were alien
craft! Would you like me to call him or write to him?
JS> think he would have given one? He is a member of CSICOP, after all,
JS> and
JS> CSICOP's primary mission is to try to explain paranormal claims in
JS> fundamentally normal terms. Is it not therefore safe to assume that,
I like them already. This is every scientist's aim in life, to
explain the unexplainable. Who are these people, and what do they
do? Is this the "oranization" that Randy has something to do with?
Sorry, I'm not up on this group.
JS> fundamentally normal terms. Is it not therefore safe to assume that,
JS> since he had no reason to give one, he did not have one to give? And
JS> if
JS> a JPL scientist lacks an explanation for an anomaly, and no one else
JS> of
JS> comparable stature has one, DOES IT NOT THEREFORE REMAIN UNEXPLAINED?
Did you ever see me state otherwise? The guy states that he
cannot prove anything one way or the other, but that he's not going
to say these are alien craft. That's all I'm going on Jim, I'm not
going to bother reading anything more into it at all. Think what
you wish of the statement, but until one of use actually goes out
and asks him, it's all just speculation.
JS> Another typical tactic of the debunker: the claimants are to blame for
JS> the production values of any TV show that showcases their claim. This
JS> one happened to be quite an excellent program, even by skeptics'
And apparently of the "believer". This is exactly what you were
trying to do to the JPL person in the last statement... "well, he's
a CSICOP member, so OF COURSE...". Practice what you preach Jim.
I didn't think it was an excellent program at all. In fact, I
thought it was laughable. I'll bet that Arnold, Les and Dave would
too.
cont...
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: HVUFO Round 3 [3/3]
Date: 14 Sep 91 21:33:00 GMT
Round 3 Part 3
Cross Posted from SCIENCE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(19765) Thu 12 Sep 91 11:11a
By: Maury Markowitz
To: Jim Speiser
Re: Re: UFO Tape
St: Rcvd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
@EID:43e5 172c5978
@MSGID: 1:250/712 28cf91c4
JS> As for him being "sure these are NOT spacecraft," I envy him his
JS> certitude.
That's good. He's a professional, and you're not. I too admire
him for being able to do this, he's lucky that he has the knowledge
and tools required to make this kind of analysis, which WE DO NOT.
JS> And now we come to the part where you might not like ME too much,
JS> Maury.
JS> Your unquestioning citation of Philip Klass' statements points up one
JS> of
JS> the basic problems with skepticism as it is practiced in some
JS> quarters:
As I have stated repeatedly throughout this thread, ALL I have on
this subject is what YOU provided. If you wanted me to know
something about this staement, you only have YOURSELF to blame for
not providing it!
JS> You see, Mr. Klass' statement was not just false, it was demonstrably,
JS> palpably, undeniably false. It is so false as to hold no resemblance
JS> for
JS> the truth whatsoever. Not only did the sightings NOT stop, they did
JS> not
JS> even subside appreciably. (I say this with no small amount of
JS> surprise:
And had you provided me with this information, I would not be
inclined to use it. However, ALL you provided was Klass's
statement, and that's it. And here you are calling me out on the
carpet for using information that you provide?
JS> Let the record show that Maury Markowitz, and not Jim Speiser, said
JS> the
JS> "A" word first. 15 yards, Ridicule of a Straw Man Argument, First Down
JS> Speiser.
Oh, I'm sorry Jim. I guess it's not alright to make a joke about
things and mention the "a" work.
Well, do me a favour, enlighten and ignorant rube like me... what
do YOU think these things are? Don't you DARE enev THINK about
copping out on me Jim, I don't want to hear "unexplained" from you.
My position has been all along that planes provided an
explaination for the sightings, and I didn't think anything else I
had seen required a different explaination. The tapes you provided
only strengthed my OPINION, and nothing else. I have little
interest in the subject, and my cursory examination of the
materials YOU provided have given me nothing to make me change my
mind. I FEEL that planes provide enough of an explaination that
the remaining people who refuse to believe it do not represent a
significant enough number. I got bizzare results all the time in
my labs, they didn't mean anything either.
So, I turn the tables on you Jim. If these are not planes, what
are they? You have provied no evidence that they are anything else
at all! NONE! NADA! ZIP!
Maury
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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