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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 473
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 473
Tuesday, September 10th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: CATTLE MUTILATIONS
Re: OLD TITLES
Re: HUDSON VALLEY TAPE
WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
Re: How old are the 'greys'?
Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3]
Weekly World News
UFO Tape
HUDSON VALLEY TAPE
WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
Upcoming Shows
crop circle hoax: a hoax in itself?
CIRCLES
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: CATTLE MUTILATIONS
Date: 6 Sep 91 05:22:14 GMT
As for why Satanists would do anything, I don't know? I tend to think the
cults are getting blamed for things they are not responsible for, because of
the fear it puts into peoples minds. Scapegoat comes to mind.
What you mention about the blood drained, and other questions, makes it
appear that some local groups are not the cause. Whatever the solution, it's
almost sure to be more than simple.
I have to repeat "crude" tools because they are not really crude. The lithic
chipping can produce edges down to the thinkness of (or should I say
thin-ness?) microns. If I could locate the source I would confirm my memory
that one doctor claims, down to the edge which is molecular thickness. A
surgeon uses these instead of normal surgical instruments, and claims better,
cleaner cuts than the best high-tech knife we have. I don't think they beat
lasers of course, I mean mech. devices.
It's only offered up as information that may not be considered since
sometimes puzzle parts are from diverse fields. I only happen to be an
archaeologist because of hobby interests, no formal classes. I have done free
work for the Milwaukee County Public Museum for a couple of years, dealing
mostly with lithic debris and cataloging materials.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: OLD TITLES
Date: 6 Sep 91 05:29:27 GMT
I did a library search of the online catalog for Shipwrecks, etc. and still
can't find it. Asked at stores, and no listing. Someone here told me the
title, so believe it's out there somewhere. Search for Oblivion did nothing
for me either. I did find a private printing of Great Lakes shipping
disasters. Maybe it's a start. Bermuda Triangle turned up nothing new that
has not been used by the major authors for the last 20 years. (I'll leave
that comment alone for now)
Gateway To Oblivion?
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: HUDSON VALLEY TAPE
Date: 6 Sep 91 05:39:47 GMT
This is great! A logical debate, with tests of evidence. As for telling a
182 from a 152 against a similar sky, under same conditions. I'd like to see
them do it. I hope this challenge flys... (BTW what's a 182?)
OK maybe they can tell something in the daylight, I don't even know it
exists, but again, at night by the cockpit and wing lights? Doubtful.
Go for it.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
Date: 6 Sep 91 15:10:26 GMT
After seeing your recent messages about Cooper, Lear, and others, I wondered
what happened to "ICUFOR" with Brian Myers and Tina Choate? Nothing since
1990, or did I just miss it?
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: How old are the 'greys'?
Date: 2 Sep 91 22:52:00 GMT
Hi Chris,
Would you please send me a copy of one-two pages of that comic book you
have showing the "gray alien?" I'll be happy to send $ome ca$h to
defray the postage and copy cost. Can you give me an address, or do
you want mine first?
Thanks, and best regards,
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3]
Date: 7 Sep 91 15:31:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <09-04-91 23:48> John Hicks wrote:
JH> Interesting. You do know that Phil I. tracked some ultralights to a
JH> small airstrip, right? I have a file from him here somewhere, if you
JH> want it. It's about a year or so old, but might have a bearing.
Yes, I'm aware of that. It was what convinced him that there were two things
going on at once: (a) an object of unknown origin, and (b) some pilots
goofing around. At least some of said pilots were operating from Stewart Air
Force Base, which was supposedly closed. The pilots have certainly thrown a
monkey wrench into the whole deal, but the object remains unexplained.
Jim
--
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From: ucscc.UCSC.EDU!sco!robertc
Subject: Weekly World News
Date: 9 Sep 91 20:52:22 GMT
From: Robert Chansky <robertc@sco.COM>
This one cracked me up when I saw it at Safeway last night.
The headline read something like: 'NASA SHUTTLE PILOTS RESCUE ALIEN AND
BRING HIM DOWN TO EARTH!' The article included AMAZING PHOTOS, as well.
One in particular showed a group of shuttle pilots leading an alien -- looks
like the description of those greys everyone here talks about -- down the
shuttle gangplank. Now, the really good part was the inset photo, which
showed exactly the same picture, but without the alien -- just a space
between the first shuttle pilot and the rest. The caption under *this* photo
says 'NASA re-released this crudely retouched photo to cover up the alien
rescue!'
Then there was another one showing the alien with George Bush in what looked
like one of those stand-up cardboard cutouts you can get your picture taken
with, at malls and such.
Probably not the preferred discussion matter for paranet, but I found it so
funny I thought I had to send it on.
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: UFO Tape
Date: 7 Sep 91 15:42:00 GMT
You're not going to like me very much, but this SHOULD be public...
I still like you, Maury, and I'm very glad you made it public. You'll
see why in a moment.
A police officer chased one of the objects around the back roads until
he watched it land, in the form of airplanes, at the local airport.
The bulletin board at the airport sported "UFO burger, with
unidentified flying sauce"
All meetings about the UFO's were well attended by pilots
Several pictures of stickers etc reading "UFO's, do it better!" were
to be found in pilot's homes.
All of which says that some pilots were very interested in the UFOs.
Maury, ALL the pilot activity you mention above took place AFTER the
initial spate of object sightings, at least as far as we know.
In the first tape, the single "famous" object is to be seen, it
consists of a ring of 6 lights with one "leading" them that flashes.
After viewing the tape, I still have no trouble stating, that in my
opinion, that these can EASILY be explained as airplanes.
Furthermore, seeing as I have seen planes from just about every angles
as a skydiver, I could even make an ID as 152's. I did rie to Jim's
challenge, and took the tape to the jumping club, there the pilots
(oops, that should be 182's above) pointed out that I was wrong, the
circle was probibly 152's, and the lead was a 182, easily identified
by the flashing light on the wing (of which, our 182, CF-NBW sports
one).
This is absolute nonsense. I am assured by several people that there is
no way to make a positive identification of an airplane type based on a
formation of singular white lights on a black background. Possibly you
can tell high-wing from low-wing, but this charade of 182 vs. 152 is
hogwash. If you persist in this exercise in aviation hubris, I shall
challenge you to prove your claim. A simple scientific test of your
powers of aircraft identification is, at this moment, being devised by
some of my comrades on ParaNet. We're itching to administer it to you.
Are you game?
Then they also talked to a guy at JPL. Jeez, you thought the
creationists took stuff out of context! The guy comes right out and
states that he is sure these are NOT spacecraft (to paraphrase), and
says simply that while airplanes is given as the explaination for the
one film "and I see no reason to disagree", there is no explaination
GIVEN for the second, and he sees no reason to give one. The narrator
then comments "IN other words, it remains unexplained". OH COME ON!!!
I'd SUE if they did that to me on a show!
Excuse me, but how do YOU interpret Prof. Hibbs' admittedly obfuscatory
statement? If he DID have a reason to give an explanation, don't you
think he would have given one? He is a member of CSICOP, after all, and
CSICOP's primary mission is to try to explain paranormal claims in
fundamentally normal terms. Is it not therefore safe to assume that,
since he had no reason to give one, he did not have one to give? And if
a JPL scientist lacks an explanation for an anomaly, and no one else of
comparable stature has one, DOES IT NOT THEREFORE REMAIN UNEXPLAINED? Or
did you expect the announcer to know, back in 1988, that Maury Markowitz
would have a ready explanation?
As for him being "sure these are NOT spacecraft," I envy him his
certitude.
Here's the neat part. The second show talks about itself a little,
and how they were going to explore things like faith healing, metal
bending etc. Great. You guys have got to here the line he says at
the beginning, while completely correct, it's one of those old
"well, it's just a THEORY" things... where have we heard that before.
Another typical tactic of the debunker: the claimants are to blame for
the production values of any TV show that showcases their claim. This
one happened to be quite an excellent program, even by skeptics'
standards. Each segment was followed by a panel discussion that included
an appropriate CSICOP skeptic, something no prime-time show has ever
assayed to do in the past. (The show, INTO THE UNKNOWN, was a failed
pilot, alas).
ANYWAY... they get to one guy how stars describing the object that he
saw as a triangle, then they show you some pictures that he drew of
it... hmmm. funny, looks just like the one that the first tape showed
as being an obvious fake! At least THEY got it on tape! My sister
and I started laughing so hard we were crying!
Again, you're putting the cart before the horse. Most of the "object"
sightings, and all of the known formation sightings, were of the wedge
shape. The object was sometimes lit in a wedge-shaped outline, sometimes
not, but always was visible as a wedge or arrowhead or boomerang against
the might sky.
At the end came the REAL hit... they get one sceptic (the guy who
writes for AW&ST, I forget his name) to talk abut it. He says that
it's funny, because he was talking to one of the bosses at the FAA
and was asking him why they let the pilots get away with these
stunts. Well, apparently I was wrong, there is no law againced it.
So he points out that if one of these guys crashes and someone dies,
he's going to be on the Hill the next morning trying to explain why
they didn't stop it. The next day, a FFA guy goes out to the airport
and tells them to lay off. Not one UFO has been seen since.
And now we come to the part where you might not like ME too much, Maury.
Your unquestioning citation of Philip Klass' statements points up one of
the basic problems with skepticism as it is practiced in some quarters:
the skeptics are never willing to question their own tenets, nor their
own practitioners. Skepticism, in order to be truly useful, MUST be
self-referencing. It is not fair to question whether a UFO witness is
telling the truth unless you are also willing to question whether a
debunker is telling the truth.
You see, Mr. Klass' statement was not just false, it was demonstrably,
palpably, undeniably false. It is so false as to hold no resemblance for
the truth whatsoever. Not only did the sightings NOT stop, they did not
even subside appreciably. (I say this with no small amount of surprise:
Klass obfuscates, he misdirects, he dances around the issues, but
out-and-out misstatements of fact are not his forte'.) I purposely
included the Klass segment, not only for fairness' sake, but to see if
you would take the bait. You did.
a) Aliens can get sued by the FAA and thus respect the ruels..
b) They cannot fly during the day...
c) They can metamophize into airplanes in flight...
Let the record show that Maury Markowitz, and not Jim Speiser, said the
"A" word first. 15 yards, Ridicule of a Straw Man Argument, First Down
Speiser.
Continued at a later date....
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: HUDSON VALLEY TAPE
Date: 9 Sep 91 16:45:00 GMT
> This is great! A logical debate, with tests of evidence. As for telling
> a 182 from a 152 against a similar sky, under same conditions. I'd like
> to see them do it. I hope this challenge flys... (BTW what's a 182?)
> OK maybe they can tell something in the daylight, I don't even know it
> exists, but again, at night by the cockpit and wing lights? Doubtful.
> Go for it.
See my cross-posted reply to Markowitz.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
Date: 9 Sep 91 16:45:00 GMT
> After seeing your recent messages about Cooper, Lear, and others, I
> wondered what happened to "ICUFOR" with Brian Myers and Tina Choate?
> Nothing since 1990, or did I just miss it?
They are still in business, as far as I know. They are the current stewards of
the old APRO files.
Jim
--
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From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker)
Subject: Upcoming Shows
Date: 10 Sep 91 06:26:00 GMT
Jim Speiser said:
> I have just learned that the Thursday, Sept. 12th installment of the new
> talk show hosted by Ron Reagan (the President's son) will feature UFOs.
> The guests include Phil Klass, Stan Friedman and Jacques Vallee. Its my
> understanding that this is quite an excellent new program, completely on
> the other end of the spectrum from Geraldo & Company.
I heard from Dave Aaron at the UFO Clearinghouse that the Reagan show will
air in two parts, Thursday 9-12, and Friday 9-13. Also, Reagans show called
the magazine, and I spoke to one of the producers. It seems that they ( from
what she said ) were going to go into some "new age" beliefs, etc. At any rate
we did not get involved. It sounded like they might be playing it for
sensation. Will have to wait for the finished project but it should prove
interesting.
Don
--
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From: vanth!jms
Subject: crop circle hoax: a hoax in itself?
Date: 10 Sep 91 09:32:48 GMT
From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer)
There was an AP report in the local paper today about two men who claim to
have been responsible for the rash of crop circles in England. The
newspaper which reported it said that it had the men produce a circle and
then invited Delgado to look at it. Delgado said, 'No human could have
done this.' After being told the truth, he said it was 'a great con and a
great dirty trick,' and 'I was taken for a ride like many other people.
But if it wasn't me who was duped, it would have been someone else later
on. This was obviously a great joke lasting years, but somewhere or
another it would have been exposed.'
However, this is where any resemblance to sanity ends, in my opinion. The
article also says that the hoaxers 'gave detailed information about how
they planned and executed each design since the late 1970s.' Either they
only meant the most elaborate and sensational designs and neglected to say
so, or the claim is stretching credibility. We're talking about a *lot* of
circles for men in their 60s. Furthermore, the newspaper makes the claim
that 'the wheat was bent down rather than broken so farmers could still
harvest the crop.' I fail to see the difference, from a harvesting
standpoint, between bending it and breaking it. I have also heard it
mentioned that the grain in which circles are formed is unharvestable.
But that is only half of the story.
I had hardly finished reading the newspaper when I saw the subject on the
news on a local ABC affiliate. This report, unlike the AP report, did
mention that some people (I believe they even said some *scientists*)
didn't believe that the hoax theory was valid. In fact, they interviewed
*Delgado* and he said that he didn't believe it! What happened? Damage
control, or just a delay in realizing that the hoax claims were unlikely?
It will be quite interesting to see how this develops in the next few days.
I hope we can get a report from Robert Trevelyan or someone else who lives
closer to the subject. I suspect we won't hear any more about it from the
American media.
Trivia/Comic Relief/Hail Eris! Department: Consider this. The confession
apparently came about as a result of the hoaxers being upset that people
were making money selling books about the hoax. However, the confession
apparently fails to account for all of the evidence for the phenomenon.
What other bothersome phenomenon and individual, loosely connected to
UFOlogy, does this resemble? (This came to me after reading the article
about five times.)
--
* From the disk of: |>>>>> back at the old feed <<<<<| We're only immortal
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | for a limited time.
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@amix.commodore.com |
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, 'Dreamline')
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: CIRCLES
Date: 11 Sep 91 06:26:00 GMT
The following article appeared in "The Advertiser" ( A South
Australian daily newspaper) on September 10, 1991.
----------------------------------------------------------
HOAXERS ADMIT RUNNING RINGS ROUND SCIENCE
LONDON: Two English artists claim they have made most of the
mysterious "corn circles" found in British fields in recent years.
They say they made them "with two wooden boards, a piece of string
and a....sighting device attached to a baseball cap".
Mr Patrick Delgado, a leading expert on the mysterious circles which
have baffled the world for a decade, said it looked as though he and
countless scientists had been "duped".
The two men, Mr Doug Bower and Mr David Chorley, from Southhampton,
gave the Today newspaper detailed information about how they
painstakingly planned and executed each design since the late 70s.
Mr Bower said he was living in Australia when farmers put a few
circles in crops in Queensland as a joke.
He and Mr Chorley had hit an idea of doing the same while sitting in
a pub "wondering what we could do for a bit of a laugh".
After they made new patterns in a field near Sevenoaks, in Kent, Mr
Delgado inspecte the patterns and said they could not have been
created by human hand.
He was later introduced to Mr Bower and Mr Chorley who explained how
they made them.
"I was taken for a ride like many other people", said the author of a
series of international bestselling books on the phenomenon, which
many said was the handiwork of extraterrestrials.
"But if it wasn't me who was duped, it would have been someone else
later on. This was obviously a great joke lasting years, but
somewhere or another it would have been exposed."
He said: " I know it's a great con and great dirty trick, I accept that fact."
Mr Delgado said he had called a conference of fellow corn circle
"experts" for today a secret location to disccuss the revelations.
END
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Does anybody want to subsribe to "The Cerealogist", the English Journal for
Crop Circle Studies?
--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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