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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 430
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 430
Tuesday, June 25th 1991
Today's Topics:
Roswell & 'A Closer Look'
mib counter measures
Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Re: UFO Crash at Roswell
Crop Circles?
Undeniable evidence
Re: Crop Circles?
Roswell
Hey, Could Someone Post The Most Recent Paranet Bbs List?
Crash At Roswell
Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Undeniable Evidence
Canadian Abductee Specimen Retrieval Update
Re: June 10, Aw&st
Re: Randle & Schmitt
Hoax Document
Re: Alternative hypothesis for UFOs?
Foo Fighter Story
Re: Crash at Roswell
Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
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From: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose)
Subject: Roswell & 'A Closer Look'
Date: 21 Jun 91 14:52:00 GMT
WM> Anyway, I have no idea how likely it is that this 'A Closer Look'
WM> program will be accessible to readers of this list, or if it is at all
WM> possible that this particular program will be repeated or made
WM> available for later viewing. In what I saw, there was nothing in
WM> particular tying it to June 14 1991, so maybe the same show will be
WM> aired at other dates in other markets. (I saw it here in St. Louis,
>From what you describe...I am surprise you did not find the show flashing any
1-800 number while promoting a new $59.95 'UFO-Shaped Food Processor."
--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose)
Subject: mib counter measures
Date: 21 Jun 91 15:01:00 GMT
nICE> That your story was printed or told on radio or television by
nICE> reporters. And then a big new black car arrives at your
nICE> address with two men dressed in black show up on your front
nICE> porch or doorstep. They knock, ring your door bell and you go
nICE> to the door and there they are! The Men In Black! You spot
nICE> the big knew black car!
nICE> END OF PART 1 OF 2 (MEN IN BLACK COUNTERMEASURES)
With (thankfully) no part 2 to follow. Next you'll tell us you lunch with
James Bond on weekends. Maybe HE drives the 'big knew black car!' :-)
--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Greenen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Date: 21 Jun 91 14:19:00 GMT
* Replying to a message originally to Michael Corbin
JH> > What is his reasoning?
JH>
JH> Ed says that he's afraid his originals won't ever be
JH> returned, which I think is pretty reasonable.
JH> Bruce has said publicly that sometimes he's "forgotten"
JH> to return original photos to their owners.
JH>
JH> jbh
JH>
John; and who said that Ed wasn't smart. If it was I that had taken
those photo's, there would be a clod day in hell before I would turn
them over to the JPL lab or to anyone else connected to the
government. And that wouldn't have anything to do with the notion
that thay are fake or not. Turning these photos over to JPL is like
having Phillip Klass the final word on the GB case. Ed did the right
thing on this and if people don't want to believe these phots are
real because JPL didn't analyze them, then that their problem. And
goes along with all other photos that come from Russia or other
places in the world. This is just like handing a gun to the accused
and asking him if this is the gun that he used in the crime. One
must check to see who funds the JPL and other places. We must all
look before we leap and Ed has looked and he ain't leaping.
73's ---JIm---
--
Jim Greenen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Date: 21 Jun 91 17:05:00 GMT
JG> John; and who said that Ed wasn't smart.
I do agree with you. If nothing else, originals have a tendency to vanish.
jbh
--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Date: 21 Jun 91 17:08:01 GMT
MC> That is the farthest thing from reasonable considering Ed
MC> told me that he would take them personally to the photo lab
MC> where the tests were to be done.
If his intent is keeping his originals from disappearing, I do think it's
reasonable. However, I do think it would be unreasonable to refuse if he
could personally hang around and keep an eye on them.
I don't know whether or not it would be possible for him to do that.
jbh
--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Villa)
Subject: Re: UFO Crash at Roswell
Date: 21 Jun 91 22:48:00 GMT
>The book of great importance to Ufology is now on the stands. UFO Crash at
>Roswell by Kevin D. Randle and Don Schmitt is a must read. It is available
>in paperback only for $4.95. ParaNet will be doing a review in the next
>few days.
I just picked it up from the local 'metaphysical' book store along with
_Missing Time_, by Hopkins. Thanks for the info. As soon as I get through
_Night Seige_, I will start on it.. Busy, busy, busy... :)
--
David Villa - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Villa)
Subject: Crop Circles?
Date: 21 Jun 91 22:52:00 GMT
Does anyone know if that weird chain of symbols in the crops on the cover
of the Led Zepplin collection is a crop circle? If so, that sure is a weird
'circle'. Looks more like artwork to me.
--
David Villa - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Villa)
Subject: Undeniable evidence
Date: 22 Jun 91 06:11:00 GMT
What really clences the whole UFO phenomenon as fact for me, without
having truly seen what I can say, true to myself, to be a craft of alien
origin or a being, are a few things.
1. The *GREAT* volume of sighting evidence and first-hand accounts which
seem to varigy each other and support each other as a whole.
2. The way the Govt. handles the UFO phenomena in that there is such a
MASSIVE outpouring of eye-whitness accounts of sightings and abductions. A
Govt. so 'responsible' for the welfare of it's people and even as a purely
scientific interest, should take the phenomenon more seriousy. Because of
the volume of sightings and reports, the Govt. should be forced to respond
with it's own hardcore investigative measures no matter how outlandish the
outcome may yeild. All the Govt. has stated on the phenomenon is that it is
'inconclusive'. This, in itself, proves to me the Govt. knows somthing we
do not. Our Govt. has never acted this way in the past with more 'up-front'
measures. Look at the 'Red Scare'.
I do not, myself, know if we are being visited and observed, having
little clue ourselves as to what the nature of these visits can be
(Although, I must say, Bud Hopkins and other researchers do a *DAMN* good
job of serving the public 'need to know', and my hat goes off to ALL these
honorable people who contribute in even the smallest way to this research),
or if the Govt. is aware of the 'true' picture as to what these beings want
and are doing, or any other combination of the above, but I do know that
SOMTHING is going on. It IS a definate phenomenon and should be
investigated to it's fullest.
Again, I would like to express my extreme thanks and fondness of the
investigators and contributors of the Ufology field. This is true human
daring and generosity in action. I truly hope the UFO research
organizations (ParaNet and MUFON in specific) can co-exist without strife or
competition which serves to slow research and cause unnecessary tension in
the field. Ufology is a risky business and the researchers need to be
united and gain strength from one another if it is to enlighten us all.
Thanks to everyone reading this message, as well, for being there.
--
David Villa - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Paul.Mcavoy@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Mcavoy)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: 22 Jun 91 06:53:00 GMT
> Does anyone know if that weird chain of symbols in the crops on the cover
>of the Led Zepplin collection is a crop circle? If so, that sure is a weird
>'circle'. Looks more like artwork to me.
I am not sure, but I think that there have been many other types of designes
that have appeared in crops, not just circles. Also there are a few other
types of designes such as human figures and various animals that are
'engraved' in the earth which are very large, that are possibly in nevada or
other places, but I am not sure where exactly.
--
Paul Mcavoy - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Bryce.Eckstein@f10.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bryce Eckstein)
Subject: Roswell
Date: 21 Jun 91 16:49:00 GMT
Hello Don!
In a msg of <18 Jun 91>, Don Ecker writes to All:
DE> I was just informed that on July 1st, the Roswell case will be
DE> discussed on the Larry King TV program on CNN. Kevin Randell will be
DE> interviewed from what I was told.
Halleluiah!! Thanks for that information Don.
DE> Keep your eyes open.
.. and VCR at the ready {grin}.
Bryce
--
Bryce Eckstein - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Hey, Could Someone Post The Most Recent Paranet Bbs List?
Date: 25 Jun 91 01:03:00 GMT
> From: ncar!cmcl2.NYU.EDU!panix!upaya!tbetz
>
> Some folks on the PC Board echo conferences are asking for a list
> of the current Paranet BBS ssystems and their phone numbers.
>
> Could someone please post it to the mailing list, say, once a
> month?
It is being updated and will be sent to you post haste.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Crash At Roswell
Date: 25 Jun 91 01:12:00 GMT
> Can anyone identify the UFO photograph on the front cover of Randle
> and Schmitt's new book _ UFO CRASH AT ROSWELL_? I know I've seen
> that shot before, and I don't think it has anything to do with
> Roswell. Please correct me if I am wrong. It's odd, but there
> doesn't seem to be any reference to the photo in the book.
The photograph was shot by Daniel Fry. This according to the copyright page
listed in the front of the book.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Date: 25 Jun 91 01:27:00 GMT
> John; and who said that Ed wasn't smart. If it was I that had taken
> those photo's, there would be a clod day in hell before I would turn
> them over to the JPL lab or to anyone else connected to the government.
> And that wouldn't have anything to do with the notion that thay are fake
> or not. Turning these photos over to JPL is like having Phillip Klass
> the final word on the GB case. Ed did the right thing on this and if
> people don't want to believe these phots are real because JPL didn't
> analyze them, then that their problem. And goes along with all other
> photos that come from Russia or other places in the world. This is just
> like handing a gun to the accused and asking him if this is the gun that
> he used in the crime. One must check to see who funds the JPL and other
> places. We must all look before we leap and Ed has looked and he ain't
> leaping.
With all respect, this is a very weak argument for failing to turn over
alleged photographs of a true anomaly. What about Bruce being connected to
the U.S. Navy? They have more of a provable connection to the UFO phenomenon
than JPL does. Yes, Bruce is a Navy Optical Physicist. In my opinion, that
puts Ed's photos closer to the government than JPL, which is a
quasi-governmental agency. In your argument, this would be akin to putting
the fox in charge of the chicken coop. In all fairness to Bruce, I don't feel
that your argument, and if this is Ed's, is not valid. What is important is
that qualified people, with the proper instrumentation perform the necessary
scientific tests to determine just what is on the film. On another similar
note, would you buy a used car without having it tested by a qualified
mechanic? Hence, the UFO community is entitled to judge the evidence and test
it before being expected to accept someone's word that the photos are
authentic. A second opinion, in this case, is well in order. If Ed refuses
to cooperate, then I see it to be to his detriment, and should weigh heavy on
our minds as a deliberate attempt to conceal the truth.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Undeniable Evidence
Date: 25 Jun 91 01:31:00 GMT
> Again, I would like to express my extreme thanks and fondness of the
> investigators and contributors of the Ufology field. This is true human
> daring and generosity in action. I truly hope the UFO research
> organizations (ParaNet and MUFON in specific) can co-exist without
> strife or competition which serves to slow research and cause
> unnecessary tension in the field. Ufology is a risky business and the
> researchers need to be united and gain strength from one another if it
> is to enlighten us all.
Your message is well received. However, it should be pointed out that
progress is solely contingent upon all trustees of this deposit of truth acting
prudently in keeping people informed of all aspects of the results of investi-
gations irregardless of the outcome. For one group to arbitrarily remove its
high ranking officials for holding an opposing viewpoint is not scientific
investigation, but political manipulation. This, in my opinion, is detrimental
to all those who look to these depositories for truth and find something far
short of it.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Canadian Abductee Specimen Retrieval Update
Date: 25 Jun 91 01:36:00 GMT
>From Lorne Goldfader/Director
The UFO Research Institute of Canada
Vancouver, British Columbia
The UFO Research Institute of Canada wishes to announce the initial results of
pathology work on the tissue sample from Alvina Scott, which was expelled
during menstruation.
Samples taken from the specimen cannot be identified as the products of an
aborted pregnancy. The "desquamated keratin material" referred to is simply
epithelial cells, the type which line the uterus and vagina.
We will continue to work with the abductees in this fashion searching for
anything of a biological nature which may suggest or indicate possible
evidence of the phenomenon. Our goal of having physicians look more seriously
into the subject remains.
We must respect the wishes of the physicians in not releasing their names
publicly at this time due to current social & scientific attitudes.
[Signed]
Lorne Goldfader
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: June 10, Aw&st
Date: 23 Jun 91 16:23:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <06-22-91 10:21> Don Sudduth wrote:
->Could these triangular craft also be the ones reported in
->Northern Minne{_sota last summer?? (See UFO mag Vol 6, No
->3 p 7).
Could be that all the reports of triangular craft are related - the ones
cropping up in UFO reports AND the ones that AvWeek is writing about. But
are they military experiments being mistaken for spaceships, or are they
spaceships being mistakenly reported by AvWeek as military experiments?
Whatever the cause, I think we have a real good excuse for saying to the
press, Look, FORGET flying saucers, forget all the nonsense you associated
with them, we got a new and completely different problem here.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Randle & Schmitt
Date: 23 Jun 91 16:28:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <06-22-91 15:25> John Burke wrote:
->I'm only on pg. 51 and he hasn't been mentioned yet. Could
->be a "straw man" approach.
My fault, that wasn't Randle/Schmitt's witness, it was Moore/Shandera's.
->Yeah, that would be interesting! Do you have my address?
Nope. Do send.
->The *SUN* huh? The tabloid people must be mad! :-)
->With the name confusion, would he be taken seriously?
Is he ever? :-)
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Hoax Document
Date: 25 Jun 91 05:36:00 GMT
THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENT IS A HOAX. IT IS NOT TO BE CIRCULATED WITHOUT THIS
PREAMBLE.
This document was received by a noted abduction researcher, along with an
anonymous letter. My cursory investigation shows that there is no Maj. Thomas
Shively at the Pentagon. The only Thomas Shively in the Pentagon Personnel
Index is a civilian computer programmer for the Dept. of the Army. Efforts to
contact him thus far have been fruitless. Nevertheless, it is our considered
opinion that this document is a hoax, and we provide the transcription of it
here for information and cautionary purposes only. If you circulate this
document, either in print or electronically, please include this preamble.
Jim Speiser
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BEGIN DOCUMENT
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE
WASHINGTON, DC 20330
[Seal]
Office of the Secretary
19 December, 1990
[Name and address Deleted]
Dear Mr. [Deleted]
LtCol. Cox requested that I write you, as you know the situation in
the Gulf has been occupying us round the clock. LtCol. Cox sends his
regrets, but as the situation stabilizes, he will be in touch.
First, there are still some concerns over the October issue of
Av-Week. We could not understand why they would run the Edwards story
without review. This is still under review. What are your ideas?
The Belgium situation has been corrected to all our satisfaction. I
understand that another show will air on the tabloid program that will show
that the sightings could be a mis-identification of terrestrial objects, say
a street light. This should air in January.
The Nevada situation has been brought under control by the inclusion
of the "porno" queen along with the Nellis allegations. That was a brilliant
coup. This entire issue is under constant monitoring. Anything else you may
hear will be of great interest.
The last area to be addressed concerns our "friend" Mr. Cooper. As
you can see by the attachment included, the reason for Mr. Cooper leaving
Naval service, I believe back in the old days, the phrase would be keel
hauling. Cooper has worked out beyond our expectations. With his paranoid
personality, and alcohol abuse not to mention the crowds he draws, we feel
that the field has been covered. Cooper, as expected, will self-destruct at
some point, and with that, a large part and parcel of this field will go
with him. We were concerned last year when he drew police interest in the
vandalism case, but no charges were ever filed. We still have assets that feed
him bits and pieces that he weaves into an ever more elaborate scenario. We are
watching him closely, and if you hear anything of interest we will look to
hear from you. Thank you very much, and the happiest of the Holiday Season
to you and your family.
Sincerely
Thomas Shively
Maj. USAF
S. & T. Group
1 Atch
1. Copy DD 214
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
END DOCUMENT
I'd like to request that at least two people not connected with ParaNet
Administration reply to this message and quote the preamble in its entirety.
At least one person should be on InterNet.
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Alternative hypothesis for UFOs?
Date: 25 Jun 91 05:59:00 GMT
In a message to All <06-21-91 12:12> stl-06sima.army.mil!wmartin
->have to go on... :-) Why would creatures expend the vast resources in
->time and energy to travel between the stars to come *here*, for a start?
->We are not all that interesting [except maybe to serve as a bad example! :-)]
This is one assumption that has always bothered me. We now seem to have
"human bashing." It seems to be the intellectually chic thing to do to say
that we're just not all that interesting, that we're a backwater planet,
that we're barbaric, that we-can't-live-in-harmony-so-who-would-want-to
study-us? I don't buy it, at least not as an argument against
extra-terrestrial visitation. You seem to base your argument on the
assumption that if life exists Elsewhere, that the Galaxy must be teeming
with life. Going along with that for just a moment (and ONLY a moment, mind
you, as I don't think its a valid assumption), take a look at this planet,
which we KNOW to be absolutely saturated with millions of different life
forms, from the microbial to the majestic (you should pardon the term). Look
at the effort we humans have gone to to localize, categorize, collect,
dissect, and study every last blessed one of them we can identify. Hell,
we've gone to ANTARCTICA to study BACTERIA! So I don't think the argument
that "they wouldn't bother with us" holds much water.
More important, I can see at least one thing about us that would be of
considerable interest to any sufficiently advanced race. We might hold a key
to their historic past. We might represent a self-contained history lesson,
one that is turned to a very crucial page, with the heading of "Post-Nuclear
Era." The number of civilizations that survive their own nuclear era is a
prominent factor in many permutations of the Drake Equation. Some hold it to
be the most limiting factor therein. So far, we seem to be a prime candidate
(we ain't out of the woods yet, but things are looking much better, you must
admit.) I'd say that might just tag us for special importance.
As far as time travel is concerned, nothing is impossible, but looking at
relative likelyhoods, I'd have to go with the ETH, the UTH
(ulra-terrestrials, as proposed by Vallee and others), and even Kenneth
Ring's "Imaginals" long before I turned to the Extra-Temporal Hypothesis.
The possibility of paradoxes seem just a touch too overwhelming to me.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Foo Fighter Story
Date: 25 Jun 91 07:13:00 GMT
* Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo"
* Originally from Jim Sanders
* Originally dated 06-18-91 22:48
This message was in the Aviation Conference. It is similar to The "Foo
Fighters" that were reported over Europe near the end of World War II. Thought
I would post it so that you may want to question Paul further. Jim
-------------------------------
From: PAUL ELSHOFF Read: (N/A) Subj: FOO FIGHTERS
Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: AVIATION (9) Read Type: GENERAL (+)
Anyone else out there ever run into one of these animals? I had my "close
encounter" in the early 70's while flying in the area of Windsor Ontario. It
was a small (about basketball sized) ball of light that seemed to fly formation
with me for a while off my starboard wingtip, then cirled the plane a couple of
times before leaving VERY rapidly for parts unknown in a nearly vertical climb.
During the time it was near me, my radios went out, my nav and cabin lights
dimmed, my compass decided it wanted to be a top, and the engine got really
rough. One it left, everything came back to normal. ATC showed nothing but
yours truly in the area on radar, and the weather boys said it was unlikely to
have been an atmospheric phenomenon. Nobody has ever come up with a logical
explanation, and I'm starting to believe in haunted Cessna 172's!
I've heard some of the WW II bomber jockeys had similar sightings, and since it
seems some of the guys on here are of "the class of '45", I figured just
maybe......
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Crash at Roswell
Date: 25 Jun 91 06:14:00 GMT
In a message to All <06-23-91 06:06> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:
->Can anyone identify the UFO photograph on the front cover of Randle
->and Schmitt's new book _ UFO CRASH AT ROSWELL_? I know I've seen
->that shot before, and I don't think it has anything to do with
->Roswell. Please correct me if I am wrong. It's odd, but there
->doesn't seem to be any reference to the photo in the book.
->
According to Mark Rodeghier, its a hoax photo from the collection of
contactee Daniel Fry. Shmitt and Randle had absolutely no control over the
cover artwork, and typical of publishers, Avon simply said, "Oh, yeah, OK, a
UFO book. Let's use....uh....THIS one."
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Date: 25 Jun 91 06:17:00 GMT
In a message to John Hicks <06-21-91 07:19> Jim Greenen wrote:
->funds the JPL and other places. We must all look before we
->leap and Ed has looked and he ain't leaping.
That is, as you say, his prerogative. And we ain't buyin'. That's ours.
Jim
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Date: 25 Jun 91 06:21:00 GMT
Hear, Hear!
Jim
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