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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 421
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 421
Monday, June 10th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: HARD COPY BOOBOO!
feeling?
FLIGHT 19 *NOT* FOUND
Re: Valle Interview
PETIT.REB
Re: HARD COPY BOOBOO!
Re: Miscellaneous
Re--Robertson Panel
Re: the wrong planes
Re: the wrong planes
file for paranet news letter Men In Black Countermeasures
Re: Re--Robertson Panel
Re: Valle Interview
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: HARD COPY BOOBOO!
Date: 3 Jun 91 07:12:02 GMT
> You said it! Those photos Marina held up were less than
> exciting, too.
BTW, the photo of the thing that looked sort of like a giant octopus
in the sky turned out to have been a rocket booster explosion at a
previously-secret launch complex.
jbh
--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: feeling?
Date: 4 Jun 91 05:17:00 GMT
Interesting. I just came across a major solar flare alert dated June 1, in
which strong flaring is expected until maybe June 10 or so.
Pondering the coincidences.
My local guy is just about sure of some strange incident by June 15.
Coincidences bother me. ;-)
jbh
--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: FLIGHT 19 *NOT* FOUND
Date: 5 Jun 91 17:06:01 GMT
>From the Orlando Sentinel, June 5, by Maya Bell:
The mythic mystery of the Bermuda Triangle remained intact Tuesday
with the revelation that the Navy Avengers found off the coast of Fort
Lauderdale are not the Lost Squadron that vanished 45 years ago.
Instead of Flight 19 - the five torpedo bombers that disappeared
while on a routine training mission from Fort Lauderdale - salvors
found the Phantom Five.
"For those who really want to weave a mystery, instead of one group
of fighter Avengers downed in the Bermuda Triangle, we've now given
you two," said Graham Hawkes, whose high-tech vessel, Deep See,
stumbled upon the cluster of five Avengers last month while exploring
for sunken galleons 10 miles offshore.
The big question is how the Avengers, dubbed Phantom Five by the
Deep See creew, wound up on the ocean floor within 1 1/2 miles of each
other.
While at least 139 World War II-era Avengers were lost in the waters
of Florida's coast, there is no record of five Avengers other than
Flight 19 sinking together.
One of the greatest puzzles in aviation history, Flight 19's
disappearance helped spawn the legend of the Bermuda Triangle and its
mysterious forces. About 50 planes and ships have disappeared without
a trace in the patch of ocean between Florida, Bermuda and Puerto
Rico.
Hawkes contends - and evidence reviewed by an independent wreckage
research firm supports - that the group didn't sink together but
independently over a period of several years. The explanation for
their close proximity? Planes concentrated over the site because it
was the target of low-level bombing practice.
Historian Roy Grossnick, who heads the aviation history branch of
the Naval Historical Center in Washington, said the Navy needed more
information to confirm theories about the Phantom Five.
The grouping, number and type of the Phantom Five aircraft fueled
initial speculation last month that the Deep See crew found the
remains of Flight 19, which vanished with 14 crewmen on Dec. 5, 1945.
One of the sunken planes bore the number 28 on its wing, the same
number on the plane Flight 19 lead pilot Charles "C.C." Taylor was
flying. Two of the planes bore the letters FT, the same letters that
Flight 19 used to designate their base as teh Fort Lauderdale Naval
Air Station.
But closer inspection revealed that the aircraft have different
numbers and are older Avenger models than those in Flight 19. The
plane bearing the 28 may even have a third digit, Hawkes said.
The news was bittersweet for the relatives of Flight 19's crewmen,,
only one of whom was married.
*irrelevvent stuff deleted*
While nobody knows where the crew of Flight 19 rests, Hawkes said
the men aboard the Phantom Five met a better fate. no human remains
were evident aboard the planes and, with the exception of the one
bearing the 28, the aircraft are intact and showed damage consistent
with intentional ditching. Their canopies were open, indicating the
crews exited on the surface, Hawkes said.
The Deep See crewmen are continuing their search for sunken
treasure. And if they stumble on another five planes, they threaten to
keep quiet about it.
"If we find five more it will just confirm out theory there's a lot
of aliens playing with us," Hawkes said.
--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Valle Interview
Date: 6 Jun 91 07:37:00 GMT
-> I must admit that I too don't agree with everything
->that Sagan
->and Asimov say, but do you seriously believe that these two
->respected men glean their data from the tabloids?
In the case of Sagan, no. In the case of Asimov....never was I so
disappointed as when I learned that the opinion of one of my childhood
heroes on the subject of UFOs was borne of nothing but gross ignorance.
Asimov probably does not READ the tabloids, but what I think Dr. Vallee may
have been correctly implying was that he sees the headlines, shakes his
head, and laments the sorry state of True Believerism rampant in the world.
In that True Believerism he has probably lumped all UFOlogy without so much
as a cursory study.
I once heard Asimov on Larry King's radio show. When asked about UFOs, he
said they were ridiculous. "But so many people see them" said King. "Of
course they see things in the sky they can't identify. *I'VE SEEN THINGS IN
THE SKY I COULDN'T IDENTIFY*. That doesn't make me believe in little green
men." [emphasis mine]. Now here we have a man that doesn't believe, even
after seeing. THAT'S skepticism.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: PETIT.REB
Date: 7 Jun 91 01:32:00 GMT
Linda:
The other night at dinner your husband and I had a conversation about the
present technological feasibility of defeating sonic booms. He assured me
that there is no way under present technology that it can be done, and that
he frankly can't foresee it. The problem is that its not the object that
creates the boom, per se, but the rapid separation of the air particles as
the object approaches.
I'd like you to do me a favor and try to download a file for him called
PETIT.REB. It's J. Roger Black's rebuttal to Jean-Pierre Petit, a French
scientist, who claims that work is proceeding right now on defeating sonic
booms. I'd like to know what your husband's thoughts on it are.
The file can be had by going to the <F>ile transfer section off the Top
menu, proceed to section A-3, and do a filename or keyword search on the
word PETIT. Up-arrow to the filename then press the space bar, then press N,
D, select a protocol and hit your PgDn.
Let me know what he thinks.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: HARD COPY BOOBOO!
Date: 8 Jun 91 05:12:00 GMT
Yo John,
You said: That photo Marina held up was an explosion of a secret
rocket/missle.
I'm assuming it was a Soviet rocket explosion? Boy, that sure
breaks down her credibility, don't you thing??
Yuk! How unprofessional!
Gives me a bad taste in my mouth. :-(
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Miscellaneous
Date: 8 Jun 91 05:25:00 GMT
Mike,
I don;t think I going to get around to reading that Dr. Brandenburg
article on the Rainbow Declaration, so I will just snail/mail it to
you. Meanwhile, I'll TRY to read it....
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Deane.Ward@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Deane Ward)
Subject: Re--Robertson Panel
Date: 8 Jun 91 00:51:54 GMT
Hi Jim,
Saw your post but haven't had time to read it yet. I have gone through some of
my books and came up with another name as a possible member of the panel. Lloyd
Berkner. He went to the Anarctic with Adm. Byrd in 1937. There is another
Operation, I think that is involved with the Panel. Do you remember the Great
Northeast Blackout** on Nov.9, 1965.*???
It has been rumored that the saucer flap around that time was one of the
reasons that caused Project Blue Book (along with the Condon Report) to be
terminated as promptly as it was. Thanks for your assistance, you triggered my
memory and made it much easier for me to track a few more references. Why
don"t you do the Research and load me uup with books and/or reports to read. If
there is any way I could take any of the pressure off you, I will be most
willing to help.
Thanks loads,
Deane Ward
--
Deane Ward - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Gurzynski@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Gurzynski)
Subject: Re: the wrong planes
Date: 7 Jun 91 05:01:00 GMT
If it wasn't flight 19, then who was it? I had heard that they even
had identified some of the markings on the planes and serial numbers, by
robot as being from that group.
--
David Gurzynski - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Shaffer@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Shaffer)
Subject: Re: the wrong planes
Date: 7 Jun 91 07:23:00 GMT
Who was it? I wish I knew. The article didn't say. It was a very small
article compared to the very large articles that announced the find.
Apparently a few numbers matched but when they got down there for a closer
look the rest of the numbers didn't.
Anybody have a more informative copy of the story?
--
Jim Shaffer - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ncar!cwns2.INS.CWRU.Edu!aa245
Subject: file for paranet news letter Men In Black Countermeasures
Date: 9 Jun 91 03:36:21 GMT
From: aa245@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Parish)
Counter Measures for Men In Black Encounters
After reading various reports of people who have had
encounters with Men In Black after a UFO related siting or
happening, It has brought to my attention that common,
average people without any previous military tactical or
planing training are defenseless to the tactics that have
been reported to frighten and intimidate these people to be
silent or change their minds about reporting or turning over
any information or evidence to UFO Investigators. I have
decided that this would be a good application of some of my
U.S. Army (Over Training) that I have acquired in my younger
days. This should not deal with weapons or combat, but more
of a counter physiological warfare approach. Although weapons
training and hand to hand combat training greatly enhance
confidence of an individuals ability to cope with an
abnormal encounter situation. It gives you a power platform
to relate from. The so called (EDGE). But knowledge and
reasoning is a greater power and can and should be used first
to avoid any physical conflict.
The key to winning any conflict either mental or physical
is to turn the enemies forces exerted against himself or to
use it for your advantage and to exploit his weaknesses.
Remembering and working from some of the Men In Black
document files I have read, I will try to recreate some
reported situations of Men In Black encounters and give the
reader my responses to repel, stop or eliminate the Men In
Black threat.
First, we will start off with the hypothesis that you have
witnessed an unusual aerial craft and you have reported what
you have seen to the press or radio or television reporters.
That your story was printed or told on radio or television by
reporters. And then a big new black car arrives at your
address with two men dressed in black show up on your front
porch or doorstep. They knock, ring your door bell and you go
to the door and there they are! The Men In Black! You spot
the big knew black car!
1. They announce that they are from such and such and flash
I.D. at you and quickly put it away.
a. State, you to wish to verify their credentials. Tell
them that you want each of them one at a time to remove
the Badge or I.D. Card plus a drivers licence and one
major credit card for your examination for proof of
identification.
b. State, that otherwise you will refuse to speak to them
and report them to the police for trying to impersonate
an official.
2. This is a common security procedure. Ever try to cash a
check or use a credit card at store?
a. They are trying to cash a check with you using a badge
or I.D. Card. The payment is to gain information.
b. The payment also may include intimating you to keep
silent by the power of their office.
c. Know who you are dealing with.
3. You want to provoke a response from them to judge their
reaction. Remember that you are judging them in the same
manner as store clerk would to decide to cash a strangers
check or approve credit card use.
a. If they are truly who they say they are, they wont have
a problem with complying.
b. If they refuse, State that, 'this conversation has
ended'. This is a standard verbal stiff arm. Ask them
to leave and state that you are calling the police if
they don't and that they can explain who they are to
the police.
c. Retreat and lock your door. Call the police anyway,
whether or not you see them leaving and file a report
of the incident.
4. If they comply with presenting identification, remember
anything can be replicated. Apparent age the item in
relation to it's printed date of issue, use and ware are
harder to fake.
a. Check for the same names used on all items from the
same individual.
b. Check for use of a middle initial or the lack of it.
4.b.1. If the printed name has a middle initial then
the signed name in hand writing should have it.
4.b.2 If the printed name doesn't then the signed
name should not have it.
c. Check for the individuals date of birth compared to his
physical appearance.
d. Ask each for his/her social security card number. Use
the palm of your hand it write it down on if you don't
have paper but have a ball point pin or ask them to
wait OUTSIDE while you get it. Never invite them in
while you locate paper and pin!
4.d.1. All current police computers can I.D. Make
anyone by running a social security number
check.
4.d.2. Military types will know and remember their
military serial number but have a problem with
recalling their social security number.
4.d.3. A social security number is this BEST thing to
use to run a computer tracer on an individual
to see if him/her is who they say they are,
date of birth, where the live and who they work
for, valid drivers license and so forth.
4.c.4. As per the above, a social security number is
better to have in hand from a suspect
individual than his/her badge or I.D. card
number!
5. While looking down at the indentification look at their
shoes.
a. Most military types were only certain types of dress
shoes.
b. Most federal employee types were only certain styles
and types of shoes.
c. Undercover Police will copy each other and wind up
waring the same styles of shoes. Foot care is just as
important to policemen as it is to the military or
postmen.
d. Civilians, non military, non federal and non police
will were anything that strikes their fancy. This means
with no thought as to even the proper style for the
clothes they are waring or (uniformity, ease of care,
durability or comfort) when walking long distances or
standing around for hours.
e. Check to see if the shoes fit the clothes, the right
shoe on the right foot and matched socks. Someone not
familiar with earth dress may have got it wrong.
6. Don't let them lead you into any conversation and let them
do all of talking. Do not elaborate on anything.
a. Uh-haw, Yes, to respond true answers
b. Un-haw, No, to respond to false or no answers
c. Ever try to hold a conversation or get any useful
information with someone that only says uh-haw and un-
hah?
7. Do not invite them into you home, house or apartment! Do
all the talking at the door or porch and in the open were
others may see you, them or both you and them.
a. You don't really know who they are and they are no
friends of yours.
b. You don't know what action they may take when they are
sure that no one else could witness it.
8. Offer them a cigarette if you smoke. If they accept a
cigarette, offer them your lighter. Hand it to them before
they can get their own.
a. Try to wipe the sides of the front and back clean on
the inside of your pocket and remove it from your
pocket holding the side or edges only.
b. When they return the lighter to you let them drop it in
your palm and then let it slide it back into your
pocket.
c. You now have a sample of their finger prints if they
had any so use a soft cloth to remove it later and
grasp it with at the top and bottom only and place it
in a plastic zip lock bag.
9. If they don't accept a cigarette, light up one yourself.
a. If you smoke this will calm your nerves and put you at
ease and possibly offend them at the subliminal level.
This makes none smokers uneasy when placed in close
proximity to a smoker. This gives you another small
piece of the advantage.
b. If the air currents are right for it you can slyly blow
a little smoke their way to judge their reaction to the
cigarette gases in the smoke.
c. You can observe their reaction to consumed cigarette
gases.
10. If they don't accept a cigarette, offer them a beer or
any liquid refreshment you have on hand. Even a glass of
water. But ask them to wait while you go and get it! The
object is to get a finger print sample if possible, not
to let them into your home!
11. If they really bug you and you get a strange feeling of
uneasiness buy their presents at your home, standing
their looking weird, trust your feelings! Excuse yourself
for a moment, get your car keys and walk out right past
them to your car, get in, lock the doors and drive
straight to the nearest police station and park in the
open right in front of it and ask the first policeman you
see to help you to file a report of following and
harassment and file a complaint report!
Written by: Robert Parish
aa245 Free Net
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Re--Robertson Panel
Date: 8 Jun 91 22:45:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <06-07-91 17:51> Deane Ward wrote:
->as a possible member of the panel. Lloyd Berkner. He went
->to the Anarctic with Adm. Byrd in 1937. There is another
->Operation, I think that is involved with the Panel. Do you
Interesting...Berkner was of course allegedly on the MJ-12 panel. Why do you
think he may have been on the Robertson panel?
->remember the Great Northeast Blackout** on Nov.9, 1965.*???
->It has been rumored that the saucer flap around that time
->was one of the reasons that caused Project Blue Book (along
->with the Condon Report) to be terminated as promptly as it
The Condon committee was not even formed until 1966, after a Congressional
hearing. Don Keyhoe has some interesting things to say about the Blackout in
Aliens from Space...if his information is correct, it would appear that the
Blackout might be credibly linked to the saucer flap.
->references. Why don"t you do the Research and load me uup
->with books and/or reports to read. If there is any way I
->could take any of the pressure off you, I will be most
->willing to help.
OK, can you loan me $15,000?? :-)
Seriously, just keep doing what you're doing, and don't be afraid to post
your thoughts and correlations....some may be shot down, but some may stick!
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Re: Valle Interview
Date: 9 Jun 91 13:07:00 GMT
Jim,
Conceivably Dr. Valle was using a bit of hyperbole in his reference
to Sagan, Asimov, and the National Enquirer, but I still feel we
should all learn to be a tad more tolerant of the skeptical mind.
Asimov has written some science primers for young people which are
quite well done, so even he is being of service to society.
As far as the Larry King interview you referred to, I would have to
ask what SPECIFICALLY Asimov has seen in the sky that he couldn't
identify. From your excerpt taken out of context, it is difficult
to discern if it was UFOs, cloud formations, astronomical bodies,
weather phenomena, etc. ( Of course I realize that the latter could
all be mistaken for true UFOs. ) Additionally, when Larry asked
Asimov about UFOs, and he responded that "they were ridiculous",
what exactly did he mean? UFO's themselves are ridiculous, the
possibility of their being a reality is ridiculous, or the
sightings and/or the individuals reporting them are ridiculous.
Clarification is required.
I must say that I even find myself becoming increasingly skeptical,
not because I don't believe in the reality of UFOs ( I do !! ), but
because it seems that virtually every "breakthrough" case that's
touted as "proof positive" seems to fall apart with time. That's
even occurring as we speak with a personal investigation of my own
with a possible abductee on the west coast. (By the way, I am
following with interest your postings on Lydia, and look forward to
an update soon.)
In any event, I'm certain you'll agree that this whole business
(and it is BIG BUSINESS), gets very frustrating at times. However,
with perseverance, dedication, and sincerity, we shall succeed in
making some sense of this quandary someday.
Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************
