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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 381
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 381
Sunday, March 24th 1991
Today's Topics:
Goof
Hatonn And The Pleiades
New Echo
CONTINUUM Continues
Call for Submissions
Linguist Appointed
New ParaNet Affiliate
Gravitational magnetism
Gravitational Magnetism
Hatonn And The Pleiades
Re: Statements of accepta
File Disclaimers
Re: File disclaimers
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Moderator's Note: Our Domain address is broken so until it is fixed use these
internet type addresses (Of course UUCP site don't have to do this):
infopara%scicom@boulder.colorado.edu or infopara%scicom@ncar.ucar.edu
We hope to have the domain mx record corrected this week.
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Goof
Date: 19 Mar 91 14:42:00 GMT
> "The Missing Link" is a magazine edited by Aileen Bringleand is
> published by UFO Contact Center International. The subscription is
> $19.00 a year. The address is 3001 South 288th St. #304, Federal Way,
> Washington 98003. I met Aileen over the xmas holidays when she visited
> Orlando. She is also Co-Host for the First UFO Congress that will be
> held in Tucson, Arizona 3 May through 7 May 1991. I hope that will help.
> 73's ---Jim---
Is she the former Aileen Edwards of Seattle?
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@f4.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Hatonn And The Pleiades
Date: 18 Mar 91 21:43:00 GMT
> Yeah, I have been an attendee at a few 'Full-Trance' and 'Semi-Trance'
> sittings in years gone by. Just surface observations though. The
> 'medium' and helpers generally frown at any official examinations. Such
> measurement type apparatus seems to scare them easily. As the old
> saying goes:
> "Mediums do their best work in the dark!" :-)
What were your observations?
> Most probably. But I bet if ParaNet members were to form a 'seek out
> and observe' travel group for various claimants of this phenomenon, as I
> assume they have done for UFO sightings...I believe there would be a lot
> less Phoenix Journal 'Hatonn' facade types floating about.
More input. Suggestions?
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f4.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@f4.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: New Echo
Date: 18 Mar 91 21:45:00 GMT
> Sigh...I knew this day would come. I know the traffic on that echo will
> no doubt be quite 'noisy' when the word gets out over Fight-O-Net. I
> hope the moderator of that conference is up tp the task required of
> him/her. :-)
It won't be that bad. Just think of all those people out there reading those
other echoes getting seriously deluded over biased information. Now, they
have a friend in the UFO business <grin>.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f4.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: CONTINUUM Continues
Date: 19 Mar 91 13:47:00 GMT
*** P a r a N e t C O N T I N U U M ***
Continues ...
CONTINUUM is back!
ParaNet's newsletter of UFOlogy, online communications, paranormal
studies and research is resuming publication. CONTINUUM will appear
quarterly, with the first issue scheduled for July of this year.
Planned articles in the coming issue include:
The Fatima Enigma
Online listening post -- best of the ParaNet echoes
The Philadelphia Experiment: Build It in Your Basement?!
ParaNet -- 5 years and counting...
UFO History
UFO current events
Handy UFO classifieds
And more ...
An exciting forum for an array of interests -- and a handy resource for
finding:
Current UFO events and symposia
Computer bulletin boards
Study groups
Contact groups
Researchers and research organizations
Authors and publishers
A limited number of complimentary copies of CONTINUUM's premiere issue
will be made available to ParaNet participants and other interested
parties. Thereafter, CONTINUUM will be available by subscription
only.
For further information, or to request a complimentary copy, send
electronic mail to:
* Clark Matthews, Editorial Director
ParaNet Pi 1-201-451-3063 (BBS)
9:1012/4 (ParaNet)
1:107/816 (FidoNet)
P.O. Box 3934, Jersey City, NJ 07303-3934 (U.S. Mail)
* Michael Corbin, ParaNet Administrator
ParaNet Alpha 1-303-431-8797 (BBS)
9:9/0 (ParaNet)
1:104/422 (FidoNet)
mcorbin@scicom.alphacdc.com (Internet)
* James Roger Black, Contributing Editor
jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu (Internet)
(CONTINUUM is a production of the ParaNet Information Service, which is
solely responsible for its content. No endorsement by any other
organization or communication service is intended or should be implied.)
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Call for Submissions
Date: 19 Mar 91 13:48:00 GMT
*** P a r a N e t C O N T I N U U M ***
C A L L F O R S U B M I S S I O N S
CONTINUUM is back!
ParaNet's newsletter of UFOlogy, research, online communications, and
paranormal studies is resuming publication -- and calling for
submissions.
We are seeking articles of 500 to 3000 words for the premiere issue,
which is scheduled for publication in July 1991.
Publication will be quarterly. Payment will be in copies.
*** S U B M I S S I O N D E A D L I N E ***
May 15, 1991
Send submissions to:
Clark Matthews
The Wrong Number BBS
P.O. Box 3934
Jersey City, NJ 07303-3934
*** E D I T O R I A L S U B M I S S I O N S ***
SUBMIT ANYTHING!
We don't PROMISE to publish it, but if your topic interests you as a
UFO buff, we think it's a safe bet that others in our "circle" will
share your interest.
Science fiction. Science fact. UFO/paranormal history. Scaly-eyed
skepticism. A book review. A television critique. An interview. The
results of your last physics experiment. You name it: If it interests
you, it will probably interest us and your compeers here. And it's
welcome in CONTINUUM.
Registered copyrighted material will be protected but we do assume a
grant of non-exclusive serial rights from you, the author, upon
submission and before delivery of complimentary copies. You must
inform us of other, pending rights sales upon submission. Likewise, if
you submit work-in-progress, your unpublished copyright will be
respected but a grant of non-exclusive serial rights is expected in
exchange for editorial and development work and before the delivery of
complimentary copies. (Heck, we might even improve it!)
*** P L A N N E D T O P I C S ***
Planned articles in the coming issue include:
The Fatima Enigma
Online listening post -- best of the ParaNet echoes
The Philadelphia Experiment: Build It in Your Basement?!
ParaNet -- 5 years and counting...
UFO History
UFO current events
Handy UFO classifieds
And more ...
*** M A G A Z I N E H I G H L I G H T S ***
Free classified public notices of:
UFO events and symposia
Computer bulletin boards
Study groups
Contact groups
Researchers and research organizations
Authors and publishers
Maximum ad length is 40 words, including address and zip code. Dues-
based membership organizations and sponsors of symposia may advertise,
but free classified ads cannot offer anything for sale.
Space for free classifieds is limited, and the offer does not apply to
display advertising. The management reserves the right to refuse ads.
It's definitely "un-commercial", but we're committed to keeping the
"bulletin board" concept alive in the UFOlogical community. So we want
CONTINUUM to be a helpful resource for its readers -- just like ParaNet
is for its users. What goes around, comes around, in other words.
For further information, send electronic mail to:
* Clark Matthews, Editorial Director
ParaNet Pi 1-201-451-3063 (BBS)
9:1012/4 (ParaNet)
1:107/816 (FidoNet)
P.O. Box 3934, Jersey City, NJ 07303-3934 (U.S. Mail)
* Michael Corbin, ParaNet Administrator
ParaNet Alpha 1-303-431-8797 (BBS)
9:9/0 (ParaNet)
1:104/422 (FidoNet)
mcorbin@scicom.alphacdc.com (Internet)
* James Roger Black, Contributing Editor
jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu (Internet)
(CONTINUUM is a production of the ParaNet Information Service, which is
solely responsible for its content. No endorsement by any other
organization or communication service is intended or should be implied.)
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@f4.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Linguist Appointed
Date: 21 Mar 91 02:06:00 GMT
This is to announce that John Chalmers has volunteered to be of service to
ParaNet as a linguist. We are very pleased to have John aboard.
John is a subscriber on the Internet and brings the ability to translate French
and Italian. Anyone with articles in these languages for transcription are
encouraged to netmail them to me.
Thank you.
Michael Corbin
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f4.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@f4.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: New ParaNet Affiliate
Date: 21 Mar 91 06:15:00 GMT
This is to welcome Jerry Driscoll and Liz Anderson to the ParaNet family.
They have been assigned the designation of:
ParaNet ALPHA-ETA(sm)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
403-273-5697 2400 Baud
Please take a moment to introduce yourselves to the group.
Again, WELCOME!
Michael Corbin
Director
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f4.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Kurt.Lochner@f22.n14766.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Kurt Lochner)
Subject: Gravitational magnetism
Date: 20 Mar 91 07:16:43 GMT
In a previous tirade against the laws of physics (grin)
>
> From:chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H.Chalmers Jr.)
Oh, btw, thanks for posting this, interesting read this..
>
> Robert Forward, a physicist specializing
> in gravitational theory and 'hard SF' writer (Dragon's
> Egg and sequel), has described an antigravity device
> consisting of a toroidal coil with an ID of about
> 100 meters.
>
Kinda big, I'm sure prototyping it will be sensational.
How many miles of what gauge wire? I'm sure it was
mentioned in the article....
>
> If the mass of a neutron star were to flow through the
> windings of the coil every millisecond, the magnetic
Not possible. The constraints of even a superconductor
to handle that many electrons per millisec dictate a
conductor wider than the toroid itself. That's my
hip-pocket assessment without knowing the mass of the
neutron star involved.
> analog of the gravitational field ('protational' or
> gravitational magnetic field) would neutralize
> gravity in the center of the coil. The reason for the
It would also wreak destruction of unimaginable proportions
> enormous masses and velocities required is the low
> value of the gravitational coupling constant
> (about 40 orders of magnitude less than the strong
> nuclear or EM)
Wrong! 40 orders of magnitude places this "reaction"
above Planck energy values, an unexplored region if not
virgin territory by human instrumentation(s) that one
might consider possible billionths of a second after the
creation of the (now reckoned) universe.
10^19 to 10^28 is more likely the region that we could
measure "gravitons" at, if superstring theory is valid.
> and the low permeability of space to the field.
> Physicists at Stanford and elsewhere are
> planning experiments on a satellite in the next decade
> to test for the existence of the protational field.
I'll have to look this term up, never heard it before.
> Given what is known about electrodynamics and the
> above, I'm rather skeptical about low power toroidal
> magnetic fields' causing warps in space-time.
Indeed, I'm real concerned that stuff like this is getting
published, which you didn't mention where/what. But that's
ok man...thanks for typing it out to us for review.
It was a nice attempt at "science fiction" but it doesn't
stand up to observable phenomena, plausible deniability
and my meager peer review as a physics major.
> However, a working model would go a long way toward
> convincing me.
> ---- John
Me too, John....me too...
Best wishes to you and yours, and thanks for bringing this
to our attentions in ParaNet......go well!
--
Kurt Lochner - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Kurt.Lochner@f22.n14766.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Kurt.Lochner@f22.n14766.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Kurt Lochner)
Subject: Gravitational Magnetism
Date: 20 Mar 91 07:26:36 GMT
In a reply to John at
violet.berkeley.edu!chalmers@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM
>
>
> It might be interesting to consider gravity as the
> resultant of mass and time.
>
Nope, not a chance, not even a small probability.
--
Kurt Lochner - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Kurt.Lochner@f22.n14766.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose)
Subject: Hatonn And The Pleiades
Date: 21 Mar 91 05:24:18 GMT
In a message to Steve Rose <18 Mar 91 14:43> Michael Corbin wrote:
>> Most probably. But I bet if ParaNet members were to form a 'seek out
>> and observe' travel group for various claimants of this phenomenon, as I
>> assume they have done for UFO sightings...I believe there would be a lot
>> less Phoenix Journal 'Hatonn' facade types floating about.
MC> More input. Suggestions?
Perhaps a travel / observation group...similar to whatever group may go out to
interview witnesses to UFO sightings. Difference here is the ability to 'plan'
travel in advance, hence being a direct observer-participant, as opposed to
just collecting data after the event(s) take place. Promote the team as
strictly an observing body, and not one to declare or pass judgement on the
proceedings. Many camps and 'spiritualist churches' do welcome such a group...
as long as the publicity is not adverse to their normal operations.
What I am *not* advocating is a clandestine operation, in which falsehood
identities or purpose is created to 'infiltrate' any established organization.
This should be strictly open and above-board from beginning to end. I am sure
any such undertaking will be conducted in this proper manner, and only wish to
state this for the record. There are organizations that have done this in the
past and have documented their findings. I find, though, that they are more
inclined to 'make a name for themselves' with the expense of sensationalizing
their exploits. THIS SHOULD BE AVOIDED!
Participation should also be conducted without the pretense of any use of
'scientific apparatus' above and beyond the accepted use of any possible video
or audio tapings as well as personal recorded observations. What turns off a
sitting more than the 'absent-minded professors' with lab-coats...fumbling with
their *PK-Energy meters* and *PSI-Astral scopes*. Please...most of that
hardware crap is as much of a scam scientifically, than the biggest fakker in
the spirit business could ever hope to be. I *do* recommend however, the use
of 'low-light enhancing' lens attachments for the recording camera(s) of a
materialization sitting. Such gear is more commonly referred to as
"Nite-Scopes". UFO investigators should know full-well their value. :-)
Again...I am just a laymen and do not proport holding any valid credentials in
the 'spirit' observation field. My own feelings and personal findings
prejudice me against being even an amateur observer any longer. I enjoyed the
experiences I had, but do not wish to go into what soured me from continuing
on. I only hope that fresh new minds will speak out in a willing capacity to
'take up the ball' so to speak. I certainly hope that an organization such as
ParaNet will help add to our knowledge and findings for everyone to share.
--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: John.Tender@f112.n129.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Tender)
Subject: Re: Statements of accepta
Date: 19 Mar 91 05:53:04 GMT
JT>> Oh. I thought that since _you_ made the claim that Klass,
JT>> Sheaffer and Oberg _actually had made_ definitive statements,
JT>> that you also had some _evidence or ready information_ on
JT>> which to base that claim. Sorry, _my mistake_. (I will,
JT>> however, bear this in mind in evaluating your other claims.)
RM> Your mistaken assumption is that I posted the reference (to Jim
RM> Speiser, not to you) with the aim of convincing you. People who
RM> have a long history of going around posing insinuative
RM> rhetorical questions, replete with highly selective and
RM> distortive exceprts from my postings elsewhere just aren't high
RM> up on my to-be-persuaded list. Jim, on the other hand, very
RM> likely has already seen the aforementioned statements -- he's a
RM> broad and active reader -- and my intent was just to remind him.
As I wade through this tangled web of lame rationalization, I must
yet remember that when I asked for the references to the material with
which you (and you say Jim also) are all too familiar, you were unable
to supply them. (Jim, if you're there, can you help out here?)
If you really had no intention of convincing me, or thought that I
was unworthy of convincing, you wouldn't have responded to my inquiry.
It seems my "long history of going around posing insinuative rhetorical
questions, replete with highly selective and distortive exceprts" began
with my last reply, in which I resorted the the despicable and widely
discredited practice of pointing up the truth about your inability to
document a claim.
I find nothing "distortive" in my "selection" of the issue that
Oberg, Klass, and Sheaffer have made clear and definitive statements
about their criteria for valid evidence of "UFOs". It's an important
topic and is not common knowledge. Your unreasonable irritation stems
from other causes.
JT>> I will indeed try to contact the three above individuals.
RM>
RM> I doubt you'll find that there's much percentage in it. Not
RM> many facile opportunities for cheap shots are likely to result,
RM> and you might have to expend a little effort along the way.
I see; asking for information to support a claim is a cheap shot. I
supposes I'se jus to iggnerant to know that. Oh well, perhaps a few
years of training in "skeptical thinking" would set me aright.
Further, I ask you for documentary references of a claim ~you~
make, your answer is "Good question; I don't got none; ask them!", and
then you express a fear that I might not want to "expend a little effort
along the way." Good reasoning there, Rick. Firmly grounded. Skeptic
_par excellence_.
... from the purlieus of Pittsburgh
--
John Tender - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Tender@f112.n129.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Tender@f112.n129.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Tender)
Subject: File Disclaimers
Date: 19 Mar 91 05:29:55 GMT
(Continued from Previous message)
RM>> I fully disagree. Sysops have no obligation to justify or
RM>> explain their placement of download files on their own systems.
RM>> If I were moved to post such an explanation, it would be as
RM>> follows: "Because I damned well felt like it." That should
RM>> more than cover it.
JT>> I suppose that this depends on what the sysop decides to
JT>> be his "obligation". If one's desire is to present a rational,
JT>> objective, and comprehensive overview of a subject, then it is
JT>> imperative that rational, objective, and comprehensive
JT>> criteria for data presented be made available. If, on the
JT>> other hand, one chooses to ignore this obligation and run the
JT>> risk (or at least arouse the suspicion) of presenting
JT>> half-truths, faulty lines of reasoning, and
JT>> conclusions-by-decree, then "because I damned well felt like
JT>> it" will indeed suffice.
RM> If you want to go around and sermonise to some flock of sysops
RM> concerning their download areas, be my guest, but please forgive
RM> my absenting myself from your denomination. I get tired of
RM> cranls trying to tell sysops what to do with their own property,
RM> and have low tolerance.
So that's what it is, a flock of sysops? I've heard worse
appellations for the group.
I will accept you declination of my interpretation of the
"obligation" of sysops. But I won't stop expressing my opinions on the
subject, just as I hope scientists won't stop trying to convince people
that there should be standards of evidence, freedom of information, and
the right to question all and everything, even though many may also
absent themselves from such "sermons".
RM> In point of fact, in any event, I was trying to suggest (to the RM>
other fellow) some less drastic alternatives to his proposal to RM>
delete the Cooper files. By contrast, on my own board, I don't RM>
post disclaimers, nor do I delete text files, nor have I ever RM>
considered doing so. I maintain this wide-open policy on RM> my BBS
for what I regard as an eminently good reason: Yep, RM> because I
damned well feel like it.
That's not a ~reason~ at all, even though I don't necessarily
object to the policy.
I still don't see what that has got to do with the Cooper files
being representative "of their kind", nor can I see why you made my
omission of this irrelevant material the focus of your reply. It's just
an exercise in obscurantism.
... from the purlieus of Pittsburgh
--
John Tender - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Tender@f112.n129.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Tender@f112.n129.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Tender)
Subject: Re: File disclaimers
Date: 19 Mar 91 05:38:26 GMT
JT>> Maybe I wasn't sufficiently clear. I asked what _you_
JT>> meant by "of their kind", information which, at least
JT>> according to my way of thinking, cannot be found in the
JT>> original source material.
RM> I referred to the "kind" to which the original poster, to whom I
RM> was responding in ASK_UFO, had for his own reasons consigned
RM> them. Had you included a modicum of the context of the
RM> discussion, that would have been clear. The point of my
First, I moved the message from ASK_UFO since that area recently
restricted its message focus (UFO magazine only), and I wasn't sure this
topic was still sufficiently in-line.
Second, I quoted only part of the message since I disagreed only
with that part, and I was hoping that you could clarify the point. Here
then is the original post:
***********************************************************************
FROM: Rick Moen Area # 76 ( Para-UFO )
TO: Ralph Putman MSG # 35, Jan-10-91 8:47am
SUBJECT: Re: An earlier message...
Ralph Putnam to Mike Corbin:
RP> Anyway, the question is, why do the ParaNet nodes (at least the
RP> ones I have dialed into) continue to carry the Bill Cooper
RP> files? Is there some valid info. in there? From your (and
RP> Don's and Vicky's) messsages, Mr. Cooper is a fraud
RP> and a plagiarist. Why not dump his files, and extract your
RP> messages into files, and be done with it?
Dear Ralph --
I find myself in the quite delicious position of speaking up for
Coop. That is, I favour carrying his files, space permitting.
Why? Well, just stocking these rambling bits of text (or any
other pieces) does not equate to endorsement of their accuracy or
of the author's reputation. I don't think I've seen the
particular files you mention (waiting for a disk or two from
Mike), but even if they're _really bad_, they can -- at a minimum
-- be valuable as an example of their kind.
If I were really worried about the impression these things might
make on callers, I might have two UFO file areas: General and
Sysop's Picks. General would be "caveat lector" stuff (Wild Bill
and others), in the sysop's humble opinion, while Sysop's Picks
would be those the sysop considers less improbable (modify this
according to your degree of skepticism :-) ). If I were yet
more concerned, I might put a sysop's disclaimer at the top of
each file.
In more than two years of running my BBS, I have intentionally
deleted only three text files. Both were solicitation letters
for criminal pyramid schemes. I do not take kindly to this sort
of upload. One of these was a repeat offender, after a warning,
and I may be persuing prosecution.
On the whole, I really don't see the harm in stocking Bill Cooper's
files. Who knows -- they may become rare curios some day. <grin>
Best Regards,
Rick Moen
Member, CSICOP Electronic Communications Subcommittee
Secretary, Bay Area Skeptics
Hosts of the May 1991 Berkeley CSICOP Conference
... from the purlieus of Pittsburgh
--
John Tender - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Tender@f112.n129.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************
