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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 302
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 302
Sunday, September 16th 1990
Today's Topics:
Newspaper article
MJ-12 controversy in Usenet sci.skeptic
UFO's In Belgium
Re: Mystery Teletype
Ufo Crash In Russia
Re: UFO'S; BERMUDA TRIANGLE
Re: Betz comment
Re: Mystery Teletype
Re: Playing tag on radar
Bermuda Triangle
Me
Bermuda Triangle,Etc
Creating digitized GIF pictures
"extortion" letter
OUT THERE by Blum
Re: Mystery Teletype
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <doug@endor.cs.psu.edu> Douglas H Hughes
Subject: Newspaper article
Date: 14 Sep 90 21:16:36 GMT
I found this article in the newspaper the other day and I thought
you all might be interested to read it too. So here it is.
---------------------------------------------------------------
A new book written in part by a University alumnus suggests
that former University president Eric A. Walker may have attended
top secret meetings during which gorvernment officials talked about
UFO investigations.
UFO researcher and former Penn Stater T. Scott Crain, Jr.,
co-authored the book, due to be released in September. It contains
transcripts of alleged caonversation in which Walker talked to
officials about UFO sightings.
Crain alleges that Walker attended these meetings during
his stint as Executive Secretary of Research and Development
for the federal government in the 1950s.
Walker, who still lives in Centre County, denied any knowledge
or involvement in government UFO investigations.
However, Crain said his book contains evidence of Walker's
involvement, adding that the former University president still has
security clearances which could be jeopardized by his public
admission of having attended these meetings.
'Walker is the first scientist to admit knowledge of Operation
Majestic Twelve, a Top secret federal research and development/
intelligence project allegedly approved by President Truman in 1947,'
Crain said.
The alleged project, nicknamed MJ-12, consisted of 12 distinguished
scientists, military, and intelligence officials appointed to oversee
recovery operations of UFO crashes.
The activities of this group and government efforts to keep the
public uninformed on the subject of UFOs are topics covered in Crain's
book.
'We feel the U.S. government has developed teams to recover unknown
aerial objects, that they analyze UFO hardware and that there is an
ongoing operation to duplicate (alien) technology,' said Crain.
The general manager of Crain Lumber Company, 201 North Street, in
Port Matilda, Crain has been studying UFOs as a hobby for 22 years.
The book, `UFOs, MJ-12 and the Government', also described in detail
a supposed 1965 UFO crash near Pittsburgh.
On December 9, 1965, people in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, and the tip
of Ontario observed a bright orange object streaking across the sky,
according to Greebsburg's `Tribune-Review'. The object, described
by witnesses as a gold, acorn-shaped metal craft, was reported to have
landed in the middle of a densely wooded area in Kecksburg, Pa.
The military sealed off the wooded area and set up a command post
in a nearby firehouse to investigate the matter.
The incident, dismissed by many as a meteor's collision with earth,
will be the subject of an episode of NBC's 'Unsolved Mysteries' this
fall.
A film crew from the program spent six weeks in Westmoreland County
in July to investiage the 25-year old case and recreate it using a full
cast of actors.
The episode is scheduled to air as the program's season premiere on
Sept. 19, segment producer Shannon McGinn said.
____ ________________\ doug@psusun0[1 or 3].psu.edu
( / ) _ _, ______\ doug@ecl.psu.edu
_\__/ <_>_/_/_<_> _____ / dhh102@psuvm.psu.edu
<_> / doug@vivaldi.psu.edu
'What the world really needs is fewer quotes like these'
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: James Roger Black <jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Subject: MJ-12 controversy in Usenet sci.skeptic
Date: 14 Sep 90 04:51:32 GMT
Here is my latest shot in the Klass/MJ-12 debate on Usenet's sci.skeptic.
So far there has been no response from either Phil Klass or Ted Powell.
********************************************************************
-From: rblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu (Roger Black)
-Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
-Subject: Re: Bluebook Coverup
-Keywords: Klass, Friedman, Hillenkoetter
-Date: 4 Sep 90 05:59:34 GMT
And now for the next chapter in the endless MJ-12 debate ...
In article <1990Aug26.221648.29077@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca>,
ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell) writes:
+>So apparently Burke (or somebody) got the Truman letter confused with the
+>Cutler memo.
+
+ Could be. After all, there is independent evidence that the Cutler
+ letter is bogus, so the $1000 story wouldn't carry much weight if
+ (correctly) associated with this letter.
The validity of that 'evidence' is still disputed. In Klass' own words
the evidence is as follows:
(1) 'It could not have been written by Cutler because he was out of the
country at the time.' This is a bit naive. It is not uncommon for
routine memos to be written by an assistant in the boss's name, and
the Cutler memo--which deals with rescheduling a briefing--is about as
routine as it gets.
(2) 'Furthermore, examination of Twining's official log for July 16,
1954, shows he did not attend any such meeting.' So Twining didn't
show up; that doesn't prove that there wasn't a meeting, or that he
wasn't *supposed* to be there. People do miss meetings sometimes, even
important ones. Anyway, does Klass really suppose that 'official logs'
are unerringly complete and accurate? I certainly wouldn't--especially
when government secrets are involved.
(3) 'A year earlier, on July 13, 1953, Cutler did send a memo to Gen.
Twining, instructing him to attend a very secret White House meeting of
the National Security Council on July 16, 1953. ,,, Undoubtedly the
counterfeit 7/14/54 memo was inspired by this authentic 7/13/53 memo
because it 'borrows' some of the same terminology." Or, perhaps, both
memos use a standard format for informing officials of changes in
meeting times. The government does have handbooks for such things.
+>The main thrust, of course, remains--at least one of Klass's
+>assertions about MJ-12 has been disproven.
+
+ Not really. As noted in Klass' statement, he finds financial challenges
+ to Friedman to be a cost-effective means of investigation. The fact that
+ this particular one did not pay off for Klass hardly disproves his
+ assertion that the Cutler memo is a fake.
I never said that it did. As I understand it, Klass declared that the Pica
typeface on the Cutler-Twining memo was not in use prior to the date of the
memo, thereby proving the memo to be a fake. Thereafter, to use Klass' own
words, 'Friedman did supply evidence to show that the Pica typeface used in
this Cutler-Twining memo can be found in other Cutler letters.' Obviously
this does not prove the memo genuine; it does prove that Klass was mistaken
about the typeface. That was the 'assertion' I referred to. I'm sorry if I
didn't express myself clearly enough.
+>Which only demonstrates that he
+>is fallible, as he himself admits later; but it's nice to have the proof!
+
+ Unfair. The phrasing implies that Klass has somehow shifted ground on
+ this point.
You lost me on that one.
+ What he _actually_ said was: 'In closing, I have never
+ claimed to be infallible.
Just like I said.
+ When I err, I promptly admit same. Friedman
+ prefers to sweep his errors under the rug.'
Friedman makes the same claim about Klass. In the March/April 1990 issue of
the International UFO Reporter, p. 13, he states:
Sadly, it is standard practice on the part of debunkers to ignore the
evidence. Klass, for example, made more than 20 factual misstatements
in his three-page treatment of Roswell in 'UFOs: The Public Deceived'
(1983).
See how easy it is? I'd feel a lot better if Klass (and Friedman) would be
more specific about just what these 'errors' are, so we can judge for
ourselves.
+ Therefore,
+ Friedman would have had an incentive to spend some time checking into
+ the question of how often Hillenkoetter's letters had dates in the
+ unsual style of William L. Moore (original publiciser of the MJ-12
+ papers) ...
A cheap shot. This implies (without actually saying so) that Moore forged the
documents. Klass plays the same game in his posting. If you and Klass really
believe the documents are forged, and that Moore is the one who did it, why
not come right out with it? Of course, if you're wrong, and Moore could prove
it, you might get sued ...
+ Friedman's remarks about stupidity and inappropriateness
+ notwithstanding, I'm inclined to believe that if he had found that more
+ than 17% of the applicable Hillenkoetter letters exhibited the
+ anomalies, he would have chosen to collect from Klass in as public a
+ fashion as possible.
And I'm inclined to believe that if President Bush called up Phil Klass and
confirmed the MJ-12 documents for him, he'd still refuse to accept it. Your
beliefs about Friedman's character or probable behavior (and mine about
Klass') are not evidence, and prove nothing.
+ The fact that he has declined to do so is, to me, a
+ clear indication that the proportion of anomalous letters is less than
+ 17%.
Or that he simply doesn't know what the proportion is, and doesn't want to
wager on a crap shoot. A large proportion of classified documents from the
relevant years are still unreleased. In fact, according to Friedman, not a
single Hillenkoetter document from the year 1952 (other than, allegedly, MJ-12
itself) is available. Would *you* bet the farm on something both unknown and
(at least for now) unknowable?
+ The accomplishment of Klass'
+ challenge, it seems to me, is that he has given Friedman a monetary
+ incentive (which, demonstrably, he is not immune to) to conduct such a
+ search and publicize any positive results.
As if money is the only conceivable incentive for conducting research. Is it
even remotely possible that Friedman is more interested in learning the truth
about MJ-12 than he is in lining his pockets, and that he has better things to
do with his time than to play duelling checkbooks with Phil Klass?
+ Whether Friedman actually conducted a search, I have no idea.
According to Howard Blum in 'Out There: The Government's Secret Quest for
Extraterrestrials' (Simon & Schuster, 1990), Friedman has not only conducted
the search, he has been successful. He now possesses, says Blum,
not only a small stack of government and military documents with
'unnecessary commas' and zero-prefix dates, but also a letter written
by none other than Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter himself which was
dated, for all the world to see, with a resplendent 'unnecessary comma.'
+ if Hillenkoetter
+ used the funny format once then it's likely he used it more than once,
Not necessarily. The MJ-12 briefing paper, if genuine, isn't exactly your
run-of-the-mill government document. It's supposed to be 'Top Secret, Eyes
Only, Copy One of One'. We have no idea whether the date format was dictated
by the author (whoever it actually was) or chosen by the typist; if the author
was Hillenkoetter, we have no idea who the typist was or whether it was the
same person who typed his more routine correspondence. There's just not
enough data to draw any conclusions yet.
+ ... possibly even enough times to earn a bundle of Klass' money.
Ah, yes, this is how we advance the cause of true science--by placing bets
with our opponents in hopes of bankrupting them them into silence.
+ Clearly
+ Friedman is not averse to such a thing, as shown by the Cutler-Twining
+ case.
Maybe he just wanted to see whether Klass would pay up or not. Maybe now that
he knows, he's not interested any more and would rather spend his time doing
research. The implicit assumption in Klass' challenge (and your defense of
it) is that Friedman is a money-grubbing fraud instead of an honest scientist,
an assumption for which I see no evidence whatever.
+>This means that even if Friedman is able to find a legitimate example
+>of its use (and all he needs is ONE to prove his case, if I understand the
+>argument correctly), he most likely won't find very many.
+
+ Ooops. I thought the position was that Friedman already _has_ 'a
+ legitimate example of its use', namely the briefing document, and wants
+ to have TWO. Assuming that's what the writer really meant to say ...
... would be assuming wrong. I chose my words very carefully. If you will go
back and read my previous postings, you will see that I have never taken *any*
position as to the legitimacy of the MJ-12 documents. As a matter of fact, I
don't even *have* a position on the subject; I do not have either the time or
the credentials to investigate it on my own, which leaves me at the mercy of
Klass, Nickell, Friedman, Moore, and others to ferret out the facts for me.
So far each side has struck some good blows, but as far as I'm concerned the
issue remains in doubt.
+ In any case, now that Klass can be reasonably confident that the
+ proportion of 'anomalous' documents is fairly small, he can up the ante
+ knowing that there's a ceiling on his potential expense. (I've no idea
+ whether he intends to do so.)
I have neither met Friedman and Moore nor have I corresponded with them; I
certainly do not speak for them. If Klass is 'reasonably confident' of
*anything* regarding MJ-12 based on what I say, he'll probably be very sorry.
+ I believe that the challenge was a reasonable first step. If the
+ Hillenkoetter document (and of course I'm using 'Hillenkoetter' in the
+ sense of identification, rather than authorship) were really authored by
+ Hillenkoetter, there would likely be a whole lot more with the same
+ anomalous usages. Considering this possiblilty, it would hardly be
+ prudent to weigh the scales more heavily in Friedman's favor than was
+ actually done.
You're evading the issue. As I see it, the only real question about the date
is whether or not the 'MJ-12' date format is "an error ... that a government
typist would never have made' [Blum, p. 252, paraphrasing Klass]. If so,
then Klass has struck a telling blow against MJ-12. If not, then it is
irrelevant how common or uncommon it is. Consequently, all Friedman has to do
is find *one* genuine Hillenkoetter document bearing the offending comma, and
he has won his point--even if Klass can fire back a thousand documents without
it. The format of Klass' challenge, even with its '5:1 bias in favor of
Friedman', therefore misses the point. If Klass truly believes the
'unnnecessary comma' format to be an impossible error, then he should issue
the same challenge he made on the typeface--$1000 if Friedman can prove him
wrong.
+ Unquoted material above is my own commentary, and has not yet been seen
+ by Phil Klass. I'll be sending hard copy of the previous posting and
+ this response to him, however.
Good. Please pass this one on to him, too.
********************************************************************
End of Usenet sci.skeptic article.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Eric Lybeck <lybeck@plains.nodak.edu>
Subject: UFO's In Belgium
Date: 16 Sep 90 03:17:55 GMT
I would like to see the original pages of 'Paris-Match'. I believe the
Foreign Language department of my school does recieve Paris-Match, but
could you please give me a date (Just look at it, aout 1990 is not a hard
thing to know). Merci.
Eric Lybeck
lybeck@plains.nodak.edu !uunet!plains!lybeck lybeck@plains
Internet UUCP bitnet
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Clark.Matthews@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: Mystery Teletype
Date: 14 Sep 90 04:19:00 GMT
> I don't know where the newswire rumor got started, but
> it's completely unfounded. We're talking US Mail.
Ah-hah! That's different, and less interesting. Still, one wonders where
it all came from. There is no evidence of similar mailings & photos being
received by the wire services, networks, or the US military, I suppose? So
this was just a one-shot anonymous mailing to the local Gulf Breeze paper.
Hmmmm.
Thanks for the info!
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Ufo Crash In Russia
Date: 10 Sep 90 16:27:00 GMT
> Could anyone see if there is any followup to this article?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
> * Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo"
> * Originally from David Stager
> * Originally dated 09-06-90 21:11
>
> SOVIET SCIENTISTS CLAIM FLYING SAUCER FOUND IN ESTONIA
>
Will contact Antonio Huneeus for follow-up. He told me about this case last
night (but I thought he said Azerbaijan).
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: UFO'S; BERMUDA TRIANGLE
Date: 11 Sep 90 04:39:00 GMT
You are right on the money!! Recent story suggests that even the
famous "lost squadron" may have been located at the bottom of the
ocean. Probably will be too expensive to ever salvage though.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: Betz comment
Date: 11 Sep 90 04:50:00 GMT
If I had to guess, (and I am) I'd guess they were seen either in the
early evening or at night since most of the sighting have been after
dusk and the planes have been theorized to have been a diversionary
tactic. The original post suggested that one of the things that made
the planes suspicious was that they WERE O-2's, supposedly a well-known
CIA plane. I was under the impression that the O-2 was simply a
commonly used training craft. Trying to determine the motives of the
military is always dicey at best. I'm not sure the military even knows
why they do things.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: Mystery Teletype
Date: 11 Sep 90 04:53:00 GMT
If the teletype was mailed is there ANY evidence that it was "real"?
While 20 years ago virtually no one had a "computer type printer" and
faking such a TTY message was somewhat difficult for the weekend hoaxer
nowadays there are so many computer systems around that just about
anyone could work up a fake TTY message and print it out in appropriate
computer looking form.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: Playing tag on radar
Date: 11 Sep 90 04:59:00 GMT
That whole story sounds strange. I thought most small aircraft radar
was essentially weather radar and that it didn't have much capablilty
for being aimed other then in the direction the plane was going. But
even if it could be aimed and could pickup that stuff I can't imagine
that anyone would be in trouble for asking about it. The Air Traffic
Controll system is a bunch of gvt employees and I doubt any of them
would care one way or the other what someone is seeing on thier weather
radar as long as they follow the ATC route control assignments.
If anyone has any expertise in this area I hope they will chime in.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mike.Keithly@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Keithly)
Subject: Bermuda Triangle
Date: 12 Sep 90 16:32:00 GMT
When did all of these discoveries occur i have heard nothing on finding
the Lost Flight! It seems you never here what is going on in that part
of the world..
Mike Keithly
--
Mike Keithly - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Mike.Keithly@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Me
Date: 13 Sep 90 14:17:00 GMT
> Please remove my name and login on your board. It has been interesting
> but I have found that the conversations have been one sided. I also feel
> that most of the users are out to get the believers and flame there
> tails....
> Im sorry that people have to knock what they cannot imagine or
> experence......
> Sincerly Greg B.--- ZMailQ 1.10 @9:9/0.0 *
Is that any reason to leave? To me, that would be a challenge to stay and
argue. Flaming is NOT allowed on ParaNet. If you feel you have personally been
flamed, leave a message to Doug Rogers, the Echo Moderator. But generally, I
don't see what you're talking about. I see many sides of the argument
represented here.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mike.Keithly@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Keithly)
Subject: Bermuda Triangle,Etc
Date: 14 Sep 90 04:54:00 GMT
Hell just want to let you know that i am interested in the Bermuda
Triangle,hopefully you are I would rather discuss this Privately bu ti
(but i) am having trouble finding out where you are.Are Youa a member
of Paranet? If not Join I know the Coordinator Personally.Anyways what
do you think of the whole situation on the Berm.Triangle,i find it
rather compelling. Let me know.
MIke Keithly
--
Mike Keithly - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Mike.Keithly@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Faeder)
Subject: Creating digitized GIF pictures
Date: 15 Sep 90 02:45:13 GMT
In an article of <12 Sep 90 11:12:10 GMT>, <MTG@csi.compuserve.com> writes:
To: <MTG@csi.compuserve.com>
>could do a few -- my only problem would be transmitting the final
>product,
>as I'm only hooked up to ParaNet via Internet gateway... would these
>pictures be available by anonymous FTP or is there another way?
Mark;
I call CIS about once a week. If there is a way to attach a MS/PC-DOS file
to CIS E-mail, you can do that and I'll circulate it through the ParaNet file
distribution system. My CIS user ID is 73257,244.
--
Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Faeder)
Subject: "extortion" letter
Date: 15 Sep 90 03:20:00 GMT
The recent issue of UFO Magazine mentions that an "extortion letter" was sent
to the gov't demanding release of the Gulf Breeze 6 (army deserters) or else
classified files and other sensitive information would be released. Copies of
this letter were sent to the media.
Is this letter the "mystery teletype" letter or is there another one around?
UFO magazine says this letter was accompanied by 2 UFO photos. Has anyone seen
these photos? What do they show?
--
Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Faeder)
Subject: OUT THERE by Blum
Date: 15 Sep 90 03:21:31 GMT
In an article of <14 Sep 90 03:17:26 GMT>, 'MAJ ROBERT FLURY' <fluryr@gw1.hanscom.af.mil> writes:
To: 'MAJ ROBERT FLURY' <fluryr@gw1.hanscom.af.mil>
>I have read 'OUT THERE' by Blum. Clearly three areas deserve more
>investigation:
>The 'remote viewings.' Didn't they try to "view" the interiors?
Good question. I saw Blum on the Oprah Winfrey show last week and read an
interview of him in UFO magazine. In both cases the focus of the interview is
on UFO's. What I find intriguing and pretty much glossed over, is the gov't's
involvement in ESP (I consider remote viewing to fall into the ESP category).
Methinks we have a can of worms here; or is it Pandora's box? :-)
BTW, I appreciate the "signal strength" from you and the others who reside in
the "alien" world of UNIX. Keep it up!
--
Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: Mystery Teletype
Date: 15 Sep 90 07:18:00 GMT
JD> If the teletype was mailed is there ANY evidence that it
The GB Sentinel article said it was simply typewritten.
jbh
--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
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INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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