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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 309
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 309
Saturday, September 29th 1990
Today's Topics:
Re: CROP CIRCLES
Crop Circles
Re: CROP CIRCLES
Re: designs
Crop Circles
Re: Betz Comment
Re: GB model
Re: Oprah Winfrey
Re: BERMUDA TRIANGLE,ETC
CAMERAS
FLIGHT 19
Re: BERMUDA TRIANGLE
Re: MJ-12 CONTROVERSY I
Bouncing mail to fidonet addresses
Re: Bouncing mail to fidonet addresses
Re: Mystery Teletype
Re: Gulf Breeze Six
Re: Crop Circles
Re: Circles
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From: Brian.Clark@f11.n289.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Brian Clark)
Subject: Re: CROP CIRCLES
Date: 27 Sep 90 15:49:00 GMT
> to what he said. Also, he said that they were able to tell
> a hoax from
> the real thing (whatever *that* may be).
>
They said they could tell which ones where hoaxes by the damage
to crops caused by the hoaxers. That amount of plant damage does
not occur in "the real thing".
Brian
--
Brian Clark - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Brian.Clark@f11.n289.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Brian.Clark@f11.n289.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Brian Clark)
Subject: Crop Circles
Date: 27 Sep 90 15:51:00 GMT
> Frank !
> In regard to the circles, Do you think it could be possible
> there are
> basic cell micro organisms in groups that are systematicaly
> devouring
> the lower stems and replacing the cells with an enzyme from
> thier
> excrement causing a modified cell structure in a left or
> right bias
> thus causing the circle formations ? And also as the eat,
> the stems
> may tip in one direction as they get off and go to the next
> stem ?
> Then they may burrow back into the ground and are long gone
> by the time
> the circles are investigated.--- ZMailQ 1.10 @1:207/109.0 *
Wow! Interesting theory, but there has got to be a simpler
explanation. When the scientific causes start to get as
complicated and strange as the non-scientific, you have to start
to wonder...
--
Brian Clark - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Brian.Clark@f11.n289.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Brian.Clark@f11.n289.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Brian Clark)
Subject: Re: CROP CIRCLES
Date: 27 Sep 90 15:57:00 GMT
> It would be helpful if the investigators had aerial photo's
> taken before anyone entered the area or at least identified
> the presence or absence of such trails upon initial
> discovery.
I'm sure that they did the later - most newspapers would rather
print a picture without lots of little grease-pencil circles and
labels. As to the former, it seems logical that the first person
to discover these circles is probably the property owner, and
they are going to make marks. Hey, how about a government funded
fly-over of every field every morning to see if there is anything
wierd...
Brian
--
Brian Clark - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Brian.Clark@f11.n289.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: designs
Date: 26 Sep 90 05:37:00 GMT
> I saw the CNN news report about the enormous design found in the
> desert, too.
Wai-wai-wai-WAIT a second, the desert? What desert? What kind of design?
What'd I miss?
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Crop Circles
Date: 26 Sep 90 05:51:00 GMT
> My belief on the crop circles is that they are the result of Star Wars
> testing.
I dunno, Mikey. Scientists have a warped sense of humor, but military types
generally do not. I can't see them testing such a thing in such a public
fashion. Furthermore, I actually see a bit of superstition in between your
attempts at being "down-to-earth". At first, anything we couldn't explain had
to be God at work. Then it was UFOs at work. Is it now to be that any
unexplained phenomenon has to be SDI at work?
> The argument connecting them with UFOs is very weak and does
> not even hint at a connection -- aside from some of the reports that you
> hear from the "Adamski-types" about strange craft in the area, etc.
That I'll go along with 100%.
> Since the crop circles are a relatively new aspect, I feel that they
> will be found to be a result of an earthly cause. I liken this to the
> Marfa lights of Texas. Although that phenomena has escaped explanation,
> it has been thoroughly demonstrated that it is not the result of UFOs.
> A perfectly natural explanation will be discovered, thus adding to the
> ever-increasing catalog of explainables.
Predictions go in the prediction registry! Seriously, though, UFOs will
all some day be added to the explainables catalog as well. Its just that the
explanation might shock some people, is all. I think the same potentiality
still exists for ghost lights, as well as crop circles. Mind you, I agree
that its probably natural, but ain't a scientist been born that's HAPPY with
"probablys".
>
> Good point you bring up about the cellular structures of the plants.
> This might even reinforce the Star Wars aspect in that they are testing
> a new sort of weapon similar to the neutron bomb.
A weapon that bends wheatstalks at a few inches above the ground? <Shudder>
The mind boggles at the possibilities... <grin>
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Betz Comment
Date: 26 Sep 90 05:54:00 GMT
> > I think as far as the Coynes are concerned, your wish came
> > true. I believe they videotaped a copter buzzing them, in
> > front of witnesses.
>
> As much dough as they have made from their hotel room regressions and
> other "fanfare," they could have rented a helicopter for their segment
> of "Solved Mysteries." <grin>
>
Hahaha! I love it...ask Ted Markley some time about his "hotel-room
regression." One gets the impression that there are room service waiters
walking around with glazed eyes....
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: GB model
Date: 26 Sep 90 06:07:00 GMT
> I discount the model as a debunking attempt, but I only discount that
> particular model. If anyone found a model that was an exact match that
> could have been made during the time period of the incidents, I'd
> consider it more seriously.
John, could you point out the major differences between the model and the
object in the photos for me? All I've heard is that the model is shorter and
squatter than the Ed object, which to me is not apparent. Also, you must know
by now that the plans Ed claimed were done after the model was made, were
actually found in the City Hall records and dated to a time BEFORE the first
photo encounters. Unless there has been some kind of response to that charge?
> When thinking about the model, though, remember that it would be
> incredibly difficult to make the video tape using a model. One would
> also have to presume that the neighbors never peeked out their windows.
No, one would only have to presume that the neighbors didn't think enough of
the goings on to report it to anyone.
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Oprah Winfrey
Date: 26 Sep 90 06:12:00 GMT
> The thing about Blum is that he publicly states, in his book, that the
> whole thing may be truth, intentional disinformation or whatever.
> Have you *ever* seen a ufo researcher write such a statement? ;-)
Well, as a matter of fact, its just what Bill English states about his own
experiences. But my contention is that it shouldn't be THAT hard to detect if
one is being bullsh*tted or not by the govt. I can think of several ways of
turning the tables on the MIBs.
> Anyway, it's worth a read. Most of it is old hat to us, since it's
> written for the general public, but there are some entirely new items.
> I think what happens with Blum is that interviewers try to pin him
> down on whether or not ufos exist, and whether or not the government is
> really covering up what it knows. Since Blum doesn't have any solid,
> unequivocal proof, he wisely declines to answer those questions.
Yeah, but it would have been nice if he'd gotten his more mundane facts
straight. Would have made for a better showing against Klass, who for all his
faults, ALWAYS has his ducks in a row. They may be in the wrong pond, but
they're in a row.
>
> jbh
>
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: BERMUDA TRIANGLE,ETC
Date: 27 Sep 90 15:49:41 GMT
I'll take credit for being one of the people that does not believe in the
Bermuda Triangle as anything more than creative editing of facts. Just so you
understand me from the start, I won't ridicule you for differing in opinion.
If you can read the past messages I won't have to be redundent and post it al
again. One of the biggest problems is that each author defines the area
according to whatever storys they choose to use to include to support their
point. This means that the area covers a smaller area for some and up to Nova
Scotia for others.
The second point why I discount most is that some use newspaper storys that
state no remains were found, but neglect to mention that months later debris
or remains were found. It's deceptive editing.
It is a pyramid of information (if you turn the point down) balanced on
misinformation and conjecture. Then the next writer uses the previous as
fact. Just because it's in print, doesn't make it fact.
The last interesting point is the challenge that anyone can prove The BT
does not exist can get a big reward. The obligation for proof is to the
claims that are made, not the disproof. Extreme claims demand extremely good
evidence, I have not found good scientific evidence or even reliable
information in regards to the Bermuda Triangle actually existing.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: CAMERAS
Date: 27 Sep 90 15:54:08 GMT
I always try to have some sort of camera loaded and near me when I travel. I
agree with you that if people claim it's the Government flying in and then
leaving, it would be fairly easy to sit and get a photo/video/or something.
As for being buzzed by helicopters I might snap a shot over my shoulder as I
headed away. 8*)
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: FLIGHT 19
Date: 27 Sep 90 16:04:58 GMT
Rats! I got the message a day after the show. Besides it's my bowling night
(Hello Milwaukee!) and I have to set the recorder so I can watch it some
future day. I still have not seen last weeks show yet.
Well how was it?
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: BERMUDA TRIANGLE
Date: 27 Sep 90 16:24:53 GMT
You mean the evidence that it was a training mission, weather was hazy, they
were probably lost in the keys and heading away from the base, and they most
likely doubted their instruments and flew out to sea and out of fuel? If
that's just a start I would like to find the book you mentioned.
Yes I read both sides of issues and attempt to make sense out of the
information, ad then make a decision. I have Klass's book in the back of my
car, I suppose I'll have to read it and then read clear intent right
afterwards. Scanned the Condon report yesterday. Interesting they mentioned
that trained astronomy observers had seen things, but it was not in the area
they were scanning, so they did no/ could not swing over and look at it. He
suggested that minimal units be stationed so it would be available when
unusual things happened outside of the designated project at hand. It mean if
a scientist studying the moon saw a UFO they would continue studying the moon
and maybe make a note that they noticed something...
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: MJ-12 CONTROVERSY I
Date: 27 Sep 90 16:44:28 GMT
I think that whoever created the MJ-12 documents (make that collected) may
have labled them in a manner which is causing conflicts in FIOA requests. Yes
MAGIC and MAJIC are to similar for good protocol. The MJ divisions are still
secret except for a few that were known to have been blown by Philby or other
double agents. In other words, there are still many secrets unknown from
WWII, and unless someone puts the parts together, they will not be released.
If there is knowledge documented from the other side, then some of it leaks
out, otherwise most of it is going to the grave with the people who did such
a fine job of saving the world from being taken over by the war crazys in the
30's and 40's.
Just in case I may be confusing, I have doubts about Majestic, MJ-12, and
MAJIC information. It could be a very well researched hoax, or a compilation
which was glued together by giving it a name. I would believe most of the
information came from factual sources, as to the structure of that
information, I believe it was created to paint a picture, and then named with
a likely secret name from the 40's. The name is my main doubt not the
information.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: valley!stan@rand.org (Stanley L. Kameny)
Subject: Bouncing mail to fidonet addresses
Date: 29 Sep 90 00:54:05 GMT
I have tried several times to send messages to people on paranet using
FidoNet based internet addresses, but they always bounce. I attempted
to send a message back to the site from which the messages are bouncing,
(it was also on FidoNet), and even *that* message bounced.
One message was to
Clark.Matthews@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG
the messages bounce from
ico.isc.com!ddodell@stjhmc.fidonet.org (David Dodell)
but a message from here to that site directly bounces from is0.isc.com
Can anyone send me a message telling me how to route messages correctly
to FidoNet sites?
Stan Kameny valley!stan@rand.org randvax!valley!stan
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From: cyrill@scicom.alphacdc.com (Cyro Lord)
Subject: Re: Bouncing mail to fidonet addresses
Date: 29 Sep 90 03:37:33 GMT
Yes, first, the address for 'paranet' is wrong,
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG
you can see the difference between the 'via' kine and tthe INTERNET address
line. The top line is correct for 'paranet and should be 'f109.n207.z1
fidonet.org' and be first routed through 'scicom'. The address now becomes:
scicom!f109.n207.z1.fidonet.org!fristname_lastname
The INTERNET address line will be changed soon as Mike get a chance to do so.
See, 'paranet' new maps is not in the uucpmap project yet but should be out
soon. We are the gateway between 'paranet' and UUCP/INTERNET sites. The problem
you had with your message to:
+ico.isc.com!ddodell@stjhmc.fidonet.org (David Dodell)
is that the address should only have been:
ddodell@stjhmc.fidonet.org or stjhmc.fidonet.org!ddodell
The 'ico.isc.com' is misplaced on the address and not correct as stjhmc is in
AZ and ico.isc.com is in Colorado. The address is a mixed bag (uucp/internet
formats), but because the fullname is behind one can believe the the correct
address is ddodell@stjhmc.fidonet.org. This will all be fixed soon at paranet
also and the articles will have the correct fido address on them.
-Cyro
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From: Clark.Matthews@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: Mystery Teletype
Date: 29 Sep 90 02:58:00 GMT
> I discount the model as a debunking attempt, but I only
> discount that particular model. If anyone found a model
I'm starting to discount it as well, but that raises SOOOO many questions,
don't you think? WHO is capable & methodical enough to go through Ed
Walters' garbage or otherwise access scrap paper with Walter's handwriting
on it, then assemble a model that IS NOT a perfect match for the GB
pictures, then plant it in an out-of-the-way place in the attic of a house
that Walters no longer inhabits??! Then arrange for it to be discovered?
It's either exactly what it seems to be -- a hoax -- or a disturbing put-up
job that raises more questions than it answers.
What do you think of the parallels to Billy Meier? He, too, was finally
discredited when models were found in his barn -- even though the models are
not a precise match for his photos/videos/movies. And he, too, insists that
most of his work was not hoaxed, even though no one is listening now.
Strikes me that S.O.P. may be at work in both cases. Meier's barn was
searched many, many times before the models turned up, right out in the
open, with photo equipment.
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Steve.Peterson@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Peterson)
Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six
Date: 29 Sep 90 04:39:00 GMT
Bill, sorry it's taken so long to reply. I was just trying to make
a point about being too quick to dismiss something if we hear the
correct buzz words, i.e. Cooper, model, etc. I just don't want to
make it that easy for the 'debunkers', if all that has to be mentioned
is one on 'those' words, and the thing is self-debunking. You know what
I mean. I decided the position of Cooper some time ago, before the
WhistleBlower articles (which I thourghly enjoyed) hit the stands.
Right
about the time I saw a clear copy of the Zepruder film, and have been
trying to debunk 'the driver did it' garbage ever since.
BTW does your inside sources at AP or UPI have anything on Joe West
as far as not putting info out over the wire? If I get too explicent
I'll get chastised for deviating from the subject of UFO's (again).
Thanks for the reply and stay on it..................Steve
--
Steve Peterson - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Steve.Peterson@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Matt.Story@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Matt Story)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Date: 29 Sep 90 05:09:00 GMT
Question;
If the circles are created by something more advanced than a micro-
organism, why are the patterns so primative ? and if it is some kind
of electronic or magnetic field or some kind of invisible light, why
the patterns ? and what's the meaning ?
I think there is an explanation to the circles simpler than we all
think , (or want to believe)
--
Matt Story - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Matt.Story@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Matt.Story@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Matt Story)
Subject: Re: Circles
Date: 29 Sep 90 05:14:00 GMT
Ditto on the cell pix from the Unsolved Mysteries show.
I thought they looked a little unusual too !
Has anyone done any magnetic or radioactive testing at the circle sites
?
--
Matt Story - via FidoNet node 1:207/109
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Matt.Story@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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