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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 274
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 274
Monday, July 23rd 1990
Today's Topics:
Deserters
Re: Mag-> UFO UNIVERSE
Re: ILL BREEZE
INFORMANT
New UFOesque Vehicle
Re: more stuff..
6 AWOLS found in GB
Re: tidbits
Re: tidbits
New UFOesque Vehicle
6 AWOLS
6 AWOL
Sealed Camera
Re: More GB
Re: GB evidence chain
Re: Mag-> UFO UNIVERSE
Re: Mag-> UFO UNIVERSE
Re: GB Video
Re: INFORMANT
Soviet UFO Shootdown
Depressed....
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From: Bill.English@f14.n9010.z86.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English)
Subject: Deserters
Date: 22 Jul 90 04:30:00 GMT
Well folks don't let it be said that you didn't hear it first here...
Recently I have been in contact with a gentleman by the name of Clifford
Stone. Clifford, for those of you who aren't up on recent UFOlogical
investigative history, is a former Sergeant in the United States Army, and
who has been encountering all kinds of difficulties with regards to
obtaining document through the FOIA. Because of his efforts he has been
subjected to all kinds of problems and dirty tricks, the least of which was
the army trying to get his wife, a former Vietnamees national, deported from
the country. As a result of this last effort Clifford retired from the Army
this past Feburary, and currently is still fighting the Army for some of the
things that they tried to pull on him.
Just prior to his retirement Clifford was sent on a hardship tour to...you
guessed it...the 103rd Intelligence Battalion of the 701st Intelligence
Brigade, in Augsburg, Germany. During his tour over there he became
intimately aquainted with three of the deserters recently arrested in Gulf
Breeze, Florida. Clifford told me that on more than one occassion the three
would come to his quarters after duty hours and discuss with him the subject
of UFOs and occassionally they would call him over to the tunnels at brigade
headquarters and show him bits and pieces of information that they had
gathered during the course of their duties that dealt specifically with
UFOs.
Clifford knew these people intimately for over a year. It is his contention
that the story that is being publicised about them being a cult group who
went AWOL to come to Gulf Breeze and meet the Anti-Christ on August the 6th
and kill him, is a bunch of crap. He has further stated that the three
people were professionals in every sense of the word. Another point that he
brought out that I find interesting is that they (the deserters) are being
held at Fort Benning, Georgia. He as well as I find this extremely
interesting since there are other military installations much closer and
just as suited to incarcerate them.
As it has been pointed out by various other people, it would seem that
something is afoot and the army is trying to cover it up. Either the
individuals in question came accross something that made them take the
action that they did, or the government sent them there and are covering the
reason why.
Another interesting point to consider is that civilian lawyers were refused
access to the 6, being told that they do not need civilian legal counsel as
the military will provide counsel to them. It's been my experience that if
the defendant, even in a military trial, wants to hire a lawyer outside of
the military, feeling that the military counsel will not provide an adequate
defence, then it is allowed. Even when it involves classified information.
It is my feeling that it is going to get extremely sticky. Perhaps an
investigator from Paranet, UFINET, MUFON, or even CUFOS should be in Gulf
Breeze on August the 6th, just in case.
Bill English
--
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From: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English)
Subject: Re: Mag-> UFO UNIVERSE
Date: 22 Jul 90 14:34:00 GMT
In a message to Bill English <07-20-90 22:57> Jim Delton wrote:
JD>ALthough I don't particularly want to get into
JD>discussion/dissection of someones personality/motives/etc
JD>why would you "respect" Tim when the Magazine and projects
JD>he promotes are amongst the most egregious examples of why
JD>people don't take the subject of UFO's seriously.
Why would I not respect Tim? In my own personal dealings with him I have
found him to be a fairly nice guy. Just because I respect him does not
necessarily mean that I agree with what he does nor his philosophies. I
respect you and your right to say what you wish as well. Even if I don't
necessarily agree with what you have to say...
kind regards,
Bill English
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: ILL BREEZE
Date: 21 Jul 90 19:06:00 GMT
> I have a copy of a recent letter that Bruce Maccabee wrote to
> the editor of the Gulf Breeze Sentinel concerning the Mayor of
> Gulf Breeze.
Now *that* was a great letter. Wish I could flame like that. ;-)
jbh
--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: INFORMANT
Date: 21 Jul 90 19:14:01 GMT
> Care to comment on the fact that PARANET is a gov't controlled
> computer network and you're a paid dis information agent? Many
> people are beginning to feel this way, and I'm pretty curious.
Jeez, how asinine can you get!
If you'd been looking long enough, you'd know that Mike doesn't put
out much information personally, but that it comes from others, such
as me. And I'm certainly not government controlled.
If you think anyone could control a bunch of sysops, think harder.
jbh
--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: New UFOesque Vehicle
Date: 22 Jul 90 08:23:00 GMT
> rotors (one above the other) and *no* tail rotor. If we
There's another type of chopper that uses a ducted fan rather than a
tail rotor. Looks normal otherwise. I've seen film of it hovering
backed into a treetop!
jbh
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: more stuff..
Date: 22 Jul 90 08:26:01 GMT
> Since I don't think anyone can track an object that
> perfectly for such a lengthy shutter opening
Unlikely but not impossible. Figure a shutter speed of around 1/2
second. Wouldn't have to be perfect since the image wouldn't be
enlarged, as in printed from a neg. It'd be interesting to see how
well the sharpness of the object holds up in magnification.
jbh
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: 6 AWOLS found in GB
Date: 22 Jul 90 08:29:02 GMT
> God I love this business.
Sure beats soap operas! ;-)
jbh
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: tidbits
Date: 22 Jul 90 08:31:03 GMT
> The Gulf Breeze case is a lot more divisive than people realize.
> Hoax or not, its an absolute travesty, and will make a shambles
> of several careers and at least one organization.
I do agree with much of what Bob Boyd's written in relation to the
GB case. Quite a few people were and are determined that it's a TRUFO
without really looking very hard.
I can confirm what Bob said about Don Ware simply not hearing
opposing arguments. He tuned me out a few times.
jbh
--
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From: John.Burke@f876.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Re: tidbits
Date: 21 Jul 90 04:32:00 GMT
John -- No problem! I give "wrong impressions" all the time. That's
why I'm still single! :-) -- John
--
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From: John.Burke@f876.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: New UFOesque Vehicle
Date: 21 Jul 90 05:41:00 GMT
Just when you thought that the air was starting to seep out of Tony
Gonsalves' tires, and that there *is* a documented difference between
the Hudson Valley UFO and the B2, earthbound aircraft designers
continue to add to the confusion between what we fly and what "they"
fly. Check out the latest (Aug.) issue of _Plane & Pilot_ and take a
good look at the new helicopter on pg 50. (I forgot what it's called.)
It has two counter-rotating rotors (one above the other) and *no* tail
rotor.
If we keep coming up with things like this, the coming years will
bring us a staggering number of explainable sightings! Phil Klass will
by then be equipped with a list of "explanations" that could fill a
100-meg hard drive. <g> -- John
--
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From: Richard.Peek@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Richard Peek)
Subject: 6 AWOLS
Date: 20 Jul 90 16:41:00 GMT
Read the "End of the World Group" thread. It contains some more
details of what I saw on t.v.
--
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From: Richard.Peek@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Richard Peek)
Subject: 6 AWOL
Date: 20 Jul 90 16:53:00 GMT
1 woman 5 men. Arrested in Gulf Breeze. AWOL from Germany. Access
to classified information (unknown type). Admitted to being members
of end of the world group. It's all I know. From the local news in
Orlando Fl. Out of time for this call.
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Sealed Camera
Date: 20 Jul 90 19:48:02 GMT
> Was'nt Ed given a 3d camera that was sealed by the mufon
> investigators???
Yep.
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: More GB
Date: 20 Jul 90 19:51:03 GMT
> Allow me to point out that some time back the Billy Mier Case
> ran into something similar in that a model was found in Billy's
> barn.
Just recently I saw a series of ufo stories on TNN, one of which was
on the Meier case. You just reminded me that the segment depicted the
investigators (forgot names) dangling a *model* on a line from a stick
in order to provide control pictures for later analysis. This was at
the appropriate location and in Meier's presence.
jbh
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: GB evidence chain
Date: 20 Jul 90 19:53:04 GMT
> I just saw a copy of Ed's new Book
New book? Have I missed something?
I've seen a drawing that matches the model somewhere, but if it
wasn't in The Gulf Breeze Sightings, I can't think of where.
jbh
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: Mag-> UFO UNIVERSE
Date: 20 Jul 90 19:54:05 GMT
> was pretty hoaky..
Where else can you find ads for X-Ray Spex? ;-)
jbh
--
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From: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: Mag-> UFO UNIVERSE
Date: 21 Jul 90 02:27:00 GMT
BE>For a time I even believed Knell until I discovered that he was selling tapes
BE>of mine and Don Ecker's speeches at the 89 MUFON conference in Vegas without
BE>our permission. When I confronted Knell with this he denied it. When I called
BE>Bob Girard of Arcturus Book Service I discovered otherwise. Poor Bob was so
BE>upset by the whole thing he has informed me that for now he isn't going to
BE>carry any video tapes at all. To add insult to injury there were several
BE>other people to include "Bunte Magazine" in Munich Germany who got a royal
BE>enema from Knell. So don't hold the South African thing against Antonio.
BE>Knell stuck a lot of people...including me...
God that's awful..why doesn't someone take this fellow out
behind the "woodshed" and straighten him out? You could betcha
that if it was me and he had done those things *without* my
permission and _on top of that_ LIED about it...
Well,suffice it to say..we would GO TO COURT. I'm sure there are
some _legal_ things that could be done.
What is Knell's problem?
Besides being an a..hole (ahem).
Thanks for letting me know about this..It puts a whole different
perspective on Antonio's involvement with the South African story
he wrote..I'm sure that he probably feels the _royal fool_ for
allowing himself to be duped by Knell and he has *my* support
for understanding in all of this.
And he's done some mighty fine work in the past in investigations
and I'm sure that he'll get over this.
Maybe we should introduce Bill Moore and Bill Cooper to Knell.
They'd make a GREAT "Liars Club".
-Don Allen-
--
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From: Jym.Fox@f30.n1011.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jym Fox)
Subject: Re: GB Video
Date: 21 Jul 90 14:41:00 GMT
I was looking at the name on here and was hoping I was wrong <grin>.
Hi Francis...and welcome. Haven't seen you on here but have elsewhere.
Jym Fox
--
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From: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: INFORMANT
Date: 23 Jul 90 02:02:00 GMT
You've hit on the truth!! How did you find out? You must have
tremendous resources at your disposal to have ferreted out this highly
classified secret of who really controls and runs Paranet. Perhaps you
can post your evidence, I'm sure it would be interesting to read all
the "facts" you must have to back up your claim.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
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From: James Roger Black <jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Soviet UFO Shootdown
Date: 23 Jul 90 20:40:42 GMT
This report was conveyed to me by a Soviet national currently residing in the
U.S. He obtained his information from a relative still in the Soviet Union,
who in turn got it from Soviet newspapers about six months ago.
According to the report, a UFO was shot down by a Soviet surface-to-air
missile near Vladivostok after being tracked on radar. It crashed in some
nearby mountains and was destroyed. Soviet military authorities who
recovered debris from the crash site stated that it contained metal alloys
that could not have been manufactured by any known technology.
My source also stated that:
(1) A large scientific center devoted to analysis of the UFO phenomenon is
located in one of the 'new cities' in central Siberia;
(2) Many Soviet cities have UFO clubs, some of which pursue the subject with
almost religious fervor;
(3) UFO books are popular and widely available in the Soviet Union;
(4) At least one Soviet UFO encounter has included the 'time dilation'
phenomenon reported in a famous Australian case a few years ago;
It should be noted that my source stated that he and a group of friends in the
Soviet Union had once seen a UFO. He also shows a marked interest in 'New
Age' philosophy and occult phenomena; I have no way of knowing whether this
began before or after his own UFO sighting.
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From: Greg.Booras@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Greg Booras)
Subject: Depressed....
Date: 23 Jul 90 16:07:00 GMT
I have believed in UFo's since childhood. And started to read books on
the subject around 15-20 years ago. I can say that I have no missing
time that I can remember but I have very vivid dreams of encounters.
Also I have been in the location of at least on ufo landing and was
missing in the woods at the time. What depresses me in the general
conversation in the UFo community. Everyone is out to get everyone. I
do belive that we should be careful in what we believe and our beliefs
of today will change tomorrow. But what kind of proof is needed so some
to believe? If Christ came on tv and told you the world was coming to
the end there are a lot of people that would have him locked up. Face
it we live in a high tech world and everything can be faked......
It seems to me that the only proof is in what you believe. I beleive
that ufo's are real, I do not have pictures of a encounter and Im glad.
For i would not want to be locked up for making phoney pictures......
First Whitley strieber writes a book the Mr. Ed Walters. I feel that
there is some good information in both accounts but there also may be
trickery.
I guess untill the big mother ship lands in Washington we will just
have to wait and see what happens. But remeber keep and open mind and
use your imagination.. Its the closest thing you have to the truth.....
--
Greg Booras - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
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