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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 289
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 289
Wednesday, August 15th 1990
Today's Topics:
Re: Gulf Breeze Six
Re: Deserters
Re: Jfk Assassination Makes News Again
Re: ILL BREEZE
The Missing Witness
Re: Deserters
Re: Gulf Breeze Six
Re: Jfk Assassination Makes News Again
Re: INFORMANT
A Fax from Phil Klass
Re: Bluebook Coverup (was Re: UFO's, Bodies and (YEP) the military)
Re: Gulf Breeze Six
Marcel interviews
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English)
Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six
Date: 8 Aug 90 20:20:00 GMT
In a message to Bill English <08-02-90 21:56> Jim Speiser wrote:
JS>his friends, and they came to the US to meet with this
JS>great mountaintop guru who was going to blow the lid off it
JS>all.
JS>
JS>I can see how it all happened, and how it can be connected
JS>with Gulf Breeze, without it being a significant
JS>development.
Just goes to show you how a putz like Cooper can distroy someone's life
without really trying. Christ!
Bill..
--
Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English)
Subject: Re: Deserters
Date: 11 Aug 90 00:26:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Delton <08-05-90 20:06> Tyson Mitchiner wrote:
TM>Well.. Let's see what happens tomorrow (August 6th)..
TM>Personally I don't think anything special will happen, but
TM>I'll keep my eyes open anyway.
Looks like you were right....now there are a bunch of us out there who are
sitting back looking at ourselves and saying that it was an interesting
exercise in jerking off...
Bill English
--
Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Rogers)
Subject: Re: Jfk Assassination Makes News Again
Date: 13 Aug 90 08:01:02 GMT
Could we move this thread to the General area? It's quite interesting,
but off topic here.
Doug Rogers
Echo Moderator
--
Doug Rogers - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: ILL BREEZE
Date: 13 Aug 90 18:44:00 GMT
+ In a message of <02 Aug 90 21:49:00>, Jim Speiser (1:114/37) writes:
+
+ >> Just saying that most people, if they felt they were going to be
+ >> ridiculed and investigated as much as Ed has been, would never reveal
+ >> any evidence they had.
+ >> FJ
+ >
+ >Not even for $800,000?
+
+ If you don't reveal it, who is going to offer you that?
+
If you saw what Ed saw, and you saw Ed make $800,000 on it, wouldn't that be
quite an impetus to reveal it?
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: The Missing Witness
Date: 14 Aug 90 06:53:00 GMT
On December 26th, 1980, several airmen stationed at Bentwaters AFB in England
witnessed a highly unusual aerial object. A detachment of air police was sent
into the surrounding Rendlesham Forest to investigate. The story of what those
men saw on that night and on two subsequent nights has formed the nucleus of
one of the most challenging and intriguing UFO stories of all time, the
Bentwaters Incident.
Several witnesses stepped forward right away. One signed his name to a
controversial incident report that is seen as documentary evidence of the case.
Another made claims that were so wild as to cause people to look askance at the
rest of the evidence. Several were seen in shadows on a CNN report. But one
man, connected with the case from the beginning, has remained only a name, a
missing witness who, despite repeated efforts by investigators, has refused to
step forward publicly.
Until now.
On Saturday, August 18th, 1990, Shining Star Productions will present John
Burroughs, the Missing Witness, at a live debate at the Quality Inn West in
Phoenix. Challenging him will be USAF Maj. James McGaha, director of the Tucson
Skeptics and member of the CSICOP UFO Subcommittee (Maj. McGaha will appear as
a private citizen, and does not represent the Air Force at these functions).
Burroughs is mentioned in both "Sky Crash" and "Above Top Secret." It is
possible that he holds the key to this entire affair. There is no doubt that he
has a strange story to tell, and it was he who insisted on the debate format,
thus indicating unusual confidence in his own veracity.
Shining Star will offer the videotape of the debate, which will run at least
one hour, to ParaNet members who send $19.95 + $3 shipping/handling to:
Shining Star Productions
7820 E. Evans
Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Arizona residents please add applicable sales tax. Please indicate "Burroughs
Debate", and your tape format (VHS, Beta, or PAL). Dealer inquiries invited.
Sorry, no credit cards.
This tape will be a ParaNet Gold Selection, indicating that ParaNet believes
the contents of this production to be of vital interest to serious anomaly
researchers.
This event is subject to postponement in case of increased military action in
the Mideast. All monies sent will be returned in this eventuality.
For further details on the event, please call Shining Star Productions at
602-948-6856.
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Don.Allen@f17.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: Deserters
Date: 14 Aug 90 04:45:00 GMT
MC>Actually, this also proves that anyone sympathetic to Bill Cooper and
Company are fishing in the wrong pond.
I *just* read Don Ecker's article in UFO on Bill Cooper...
(I may be late..but I eventually get there :^)
Sheeshh......I *definately* want to read the followup to this.
Why do the "heathen" rage and Cooper imagine a vain thing?
I thought Cooper was merely a paranoid schizo before I read the
article and *after* reading it..I'm convinced this guy needs
some _serious_ psychiatric help..
Who knows..maybe HE was abducted and he doesn't know it!
What is the guy trying to prove?
uhmmmmmmmmm.....
--
Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Don.Allen@f17.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve.Peterson@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Peterson)
Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six
Date: 14 Aug 90 04:18:00 GMT
Upon reading this message, my first reaction was, 'It's TOO easy,
all that is needed to debunk something, is to mention Cooper.'
and that even as silly as the whole thing sounds, I think the
facts need to be looked at first, then we can sit back and laugh
at the thing. I respect both of you guys, so now I am thinking
that either I'am being too cautious, or you've seen more of the
facts of the case. Can you add some enlightment?
...............Thanks, Steve
--
Steve Peterson - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Steve.Peterson@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve.Peterson@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Peterson)
Subject: Re: Jfk Assassination Makes News Again
Date: 14 Aug 90 04:30:00 GMT
Frank, Yes I've heard of White's story in Dallas and have
loosed the hounds on the boy. It will take a while, he did a
good job. If it's a hoax, he read all the right books, but
he's 'offering' physical evidence (beyond photographs) that isn't
real common in a hoax. It is interesting and perhaps telling the
way it was covered in the media. If he was planning on news
coverage, he sure picked a bad time with Kuwait dominating the
airwaves. I wonder if Bill English heard anything from his
inside sources at AP and UPI?? (Bill, are you listening?) I
doubt if anything will come of it, even if he handed the
smoking gun to Dan Rather et al.
..............................Steve
--
Steve Peterson - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Steve.Peterson@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Rogers)
Subject: Re: INFORMANT
Date: 13 Aug 90 07:46:00 GMT
+
+ Don Ecker is employed by Army Intelligene.
+
+
+ Note to Doug Rogers: I believe this qualifies under Paragraph
+ 3 of the ParaNet Echo Policies, does it not?
+
+ Jim
My sincere appologies to the network...
I have been on vacation for 10 days, and have not seen this fire raging.
Effective immediately, I ask that this entire thread be dropped.
Don Ecker is known to us, and is a valued member of this network.
His standing and credentials are beyond question. Until someone shows
me hard evidence that Don is not who and what he seems, I suggest
that such loose talk be restricted to private mail. I can understand
Don's responses to Zack's posts. Zack was inflamatory to say the least.
However, I would have hoped that Don would have let it drop after
round one. I am VERY VERY sorry that I was not here to step in when
I was needed. My appology is to you, as well, Don.
As to Zack...
Zack, I suggest that you withdraw your complaint to Mike Corbin. It's
not his job. It's *MY* job to police these issues. Allow me to answer
your complaint as follows:
We, on Paranet, take a dim view of ANYONE making unsupported claims
about ANYONE OR ANYTHING at ANYTIME. If you felt you had a case that
Don was a government agent, then the appropriate thing for you to
do would be to post that, point but point, and ask Don to answer the
charges. Don would be, by our operational standards, expected to give
you courteous replies. However, when you make wild claims, without
evidence, you will get just about what you got... flames. I don't
LIKE them, but I certainly agreed with where Don was coming from.
I appologize to YOU that I was not here to put a lid on this sooner.
I suggest, Zack, that in the future, you adopt a more adult attitude,
and you will be in a position to expect more adult responses.
Unless any participants have other comments, let's put this one aside,
or take it to the sysop echo.
Doug Rogers
Echo Moderator
--
Doug Rogers - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: James Roger Black <jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Subject: A Fax from Phil Klass
Date: 14 Aug 90 17:24:00 GMT
During a discussion of MJ-12 in the sci.skeptic newsgroup of the Usenet News,
I posted a quote from ParaNet Newsletter #266. It provoked the following
very interesting response:
From: ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell)
Subject: Re: Bluebook Coverup (was Re: UFO's, Bodies and (YEP) the military)
Summary: Response from Klass: $1000 did not relate to Truman letter.
Date: 14 Aug 90 00:14:30 GMT
Reply-To: ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell)
In article <2078@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> rblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu (Roger Black)
writes:
+ [...quote from Mike McGraw omitted...]
+
+Not only has Klass been proven wrong on some of his claims about MJ-12, but
+eating crow has apparently cost him $1000.
+
+John Burke, writing in ParaNet Newsletter #266 (dated 7/15/90) described the
+incident as follows:
+
+ Klass claimed that the 'Truman
+ letter' had to be a forgery because the type style exhibited in the
+ letter didn't come into use until quite a few years later. Friedman
+ bet Klass $1000 (or - more likely Klass said he would pay $1000 to
+ anyone who could prove him wrong). Friedman searched thru the Truman
+ library and found a number of letters written *before* the 'Truman
+ letter' in the same type style. Klass then paid him the $1000.
+
+According to other sources, Klass confirmed payment of the $1000 to Friedman
+during an appearance at the 1989 MUFON International Symposium at Las Vegas,
+proof of which can be had by reference to the videotapes of the Symposium.
I faxed this article to Philip Klass this morning (Mon Aug 13) for his
comments, and received the reply below by fax. I've been fairly careful
in typing it in, but any typos are probably mine. I'd appreciate it if
any queries that are probably due to slips on my part were emailed to
me.
[Quoted fax begins. First paragraph thanking me for my assistance
omitted.]
If Roger Black correctly quotes John Burke in ParaNet Newsletter #266,
then Burke is in error in stating that my claim the MJ-12 'Truman
letter' of 9/24/47 is a forgery has been successfully rebutted by
Stanton Friedman and that he won $1,000 in the process.
As reported in my article in the Winter 1990 issue of The Skeptical
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Inquirer, the MJ-12 'Truman letter,' is counterfeit for at least two
^^^^^^^^
reasons. First because it was written on a Smith Corona typewriter that
was not introduced until the early 1960s--more than a decade after the
^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Truman letter allegedly was typed. Moore and Friedman were informed of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
this fact by a professional New York Document Examiner with whom they
had been working, but they chose to withhold his findings from the
public.
Secondly, the Harry S. Truman signature on the MJ-12 letter is
'suspiciously like' one on an authentic letter which Truman wrote to
^^^^^^^^^
Dr. Vannevar Bush on Oct. 7, 1947--even including accidental
scratch-marks near the right-hand leg of the letter 'H'. This was
confirmed by the same NY Document Examiner, as reported in my article.
The $1,000 that I did pay Friedman was in connection with the
typeface of another MJ-12 letter, allegedly written by Robert Cutler
to Gen. Nathan Twining on July 14, 1954, which Friedman's MJ-12
partners--William L. Moore and Jaime Shandera--claim they found in the
National Archives. Friedman did supply evidence to show that the Pica
typeface used in this Cutler-Twining memo can be found in other Cutler
letters.
This memo seemingly instructed AF Chief of Staff Twining to attend
an (alleged) National Security Council/MJ-12 meeting in the White House
on July 16, 1954. It could not have been written by Cutler because he
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
was out of the country at the time. Furthermore, examination of
Twining's official log for July 16, 1954, shows he did not attend any
such meeting.
A year earlier, on July 13, 1953, Cutler did send a memo to Gen.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Twining, instructing him to attend a very secret White House meeting of
the National Security Council on July 16, 1953. Examination of Twining's
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
official log shows he did attend that meeting. Undoubtedly the
counterfeit 7/14/54 memo was inspired by this authentic 7/13/53 memo
because it 'borrows' some of the same terminology.
I have found my financial challenges to Friedman to be a
cost-effective means of discovering the vulnerabilities of his pro-MJ-12
defense. When he refuses to accept one of my financial challenges--which
could 'win' him thousands of dollars--I know I'm on solid ground. Let me
cite one of several such examples.
The person who typed the MJ-12 Hillenkoetter briefing document used
^^^^^
a very unusual style/format for writing the date. Civil style for
writing today's date is: August 13, 1990. The military format is:
13 August 1990. The person who typed the MJ-12 Hillenkoetter document
consistently used the military format with a superfluous comma. For
^^^^^^^^^^^^
example: 18 November, 1952. Another example: 24 June, 1947.
^ ^
Furthermore, whenever there was a reference to a single-digit date,
a 'preposed zero' was used. For example: 07 July, 1947. Another example:
^
06 December, 1950. This preposed zero format was not used in the early
^ ^^^
1950s when this MJ-12 Hillenkoetter document allegedly was typed.
Certainly it was not used by Hillenkoetter when he was CIA director
^^^
(1947-50) so far as I could determine from his letters obtained from the
Truman library.
Two other suspicious details were that the MJ-12 document referred
to the briefing officer as 'Adm. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter.' Yet in
letters I obtained from the Truman Library, Hillenkoetter always used
his initials 'R.H.' rather than "Roscoe H." Furthermore, he correctly
^^^^^^^^^
showed his rank as 'Rear Admiral'--not as "Adm." which implies that he
was a full (four-star) flag officer.
One person who consistently uses this unusual MJ-12 date-format in
his personal letters to me and others is William L. Moore--who first
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
made public the MJ-12 papers.
On Nov. 10, 1987, I made the following financial challenge to
Friedman, which could have brought him many thousands of dollars if I
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
was wrong:
I agreed to pay Friedman:
(A) $500 for a photocopy of each (different) authentic (as defined
below) 'official-business' letter written by Adm. R.H. Hillenkoetter
prior to Nov. 18, 1952 [date of the MJ-12 document] which uses the
'Moore/MJ-12' format for writing a date with an "unnecessary comma,"
i.e. '24 January, 1947.'
(B) $1,000 if this Hillenkoetter letter is written on a day of the
month which has only a single digit and if the letter uses a zero before
the digit, i.e. '01 January, 1947.'
(C) $2,000 if, in addition to (A) or (B), said Hillenkoetter letter
carries a typed name-of-sender that reads: 'Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter' as
^^^^^^
differentiated from 'R.H. Hillenkoetter.'
The above offer is conditional on Friedman agreeing to pay Klass
according to the following schedule:
(A) $100 for a photocopy of each and every different authentic (as
defined below) 'official business' letter written by Adm. R.H.
Hillenkoetter prior to Nov. 18, 1952, which uses the traditional civil
or military date format, i.e. 'January 24, 1947,' or "24 January 1947"
with NO 'unnecessary comma.'
(B) $200 if said Hillenkoetter letter is written on a day of the month
which has only a single digit and IF the letter does NOT use a zero
before the digit, i.e. '1 January 1947.'
(C) $400 if, in addition, said Hillenkoetter letter bears a typed
name-of-sender 'R.H. Hillenkoetter' and NOT "Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter."
FRIEDMAN FLATLY REFUSED TO ACCEPT MY GENEROUS OFFER, CALLING IT
'STUPID, TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE.'
In closing, I have never claimed to be infallible. When I err, I
promptly admit same. Friedman prefers to sweep his errors under the rug.
Philip J. Klass (signature)
[End of quoted fax.]
Although there are a couple of mentions of 'authentic (as defined
below)', I take these as referring to a definition appearing in the
letter to Friedman, since it was not in the fax. Since the same
definition would have applied to both parties, I decided not to take
the time to follow this up unless somebody considered it especially
important.
--
ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca ...!ubc-cs!van-bc!eslvcr!ted (Ted Powell)
***********************
The bottom line, according to Klass: It was the Cutler letter, not the
Truman letter. But he did pay Friedman the $1000. [jrb]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Brian.Redman@f2.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Brian Redman)
Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six
Date: 9 Aug 90 00:54:40 GMT
To partially quote you, you wrote: "The point I'm trying to make
is that after you do some reading you'll discover that 1) The UFO
phenomena is real, 2) No one really knows what these UFO's are..."
(etc.)
I am more or less unknowledgeable in this area. What books do you
recommend?
--
Brian Redman - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Brian.Redman@f2.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 'JIM GRAHAM' <graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu>
Subject: Marcel interviews
Date: 15 Aug 90 01:23:23 GMT
Please excuse the mention of what I'm sure is an old subject on Paranet.
I am trying to get hold of a video and/or typewritten transcripts of the
so-called videotaped Marcel interviews about the Roswell, NM incident.
Can any of you point me in the right direction?
Thanks.
Jim
------------------------------
graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
graham@IUCF.BITNET
------------------------------
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