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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 206
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 206
Tuesday, April 17th 1990
Today's Topics:
Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Re: Windshield Guy
Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Re: True..
Interesting Materials / Missing BBS
Tesla
Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
UFO Video
Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Re: True..
Klass vs Clark
More info on a film
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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Date: 14 Apr 90 05:37:00 GMT
Not sure I buy your economic theory, Jim. If all the utilities workers were
thrown out of work, it would take a helluva long adjustment period to retrain
them for other jobs which just might not exist. As labor is a fixed quantity,
so is the number of jobs available. The economic impact of the overnight
destruction of an entire industry would be devastating. No, they couldn't just
pick up jobs manufacturing modems and computers, because with the decrease in
real personal income would come a corresponding decrease in demand for such
costly durable goods.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Ray.Griffin
Subject: Re: Windshield Guy
Date: 14 Apr 90 15:42:00 GMT
Yes, I do have his lawyer's name and Number. I will send it to you. If
you have any information pertaining to me let me know. RG
--
Ray Griffin - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Ray.Griffin@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Date: 14 Apr 90 22:33:00 GMT
You are makeing what I beleive is an unwarranted and unrealistic
assumption, i.e., that the changes would take place quickly. Unless
you are going to assume that the aliens are going to bring gigantic
cargo ships here full of all the mini-power generators and hand deliver
them and hook them up at everyones house, and that they are going to
somehow create vast "food-factories" or whatever that will put farmers
out of business overnight, I don't think you'll see the upheaval you
are visualizing. As long as we are just guessing anyways, doesn't it
seem much more likely that, at best, the aliens will tell us HOW to get
"free" power and "free" food, but that in order to actually get the
"free" stuff we will have to create whole new industries to build all
the mini-power generators and food-factories. Is it really any
different then the suggestion that if the transistor had been invented
AND perfected AND the complete plans for the needed factories had been
all accomplished in a couple of years instead of the almost decade it
really took that things would actually changed immediately? Seems
unlikely to me, even if all those things had happened with the
transistor, it STILL would have taken a number of years to mobilize the
men and material needed to get into production and redesign everything
to take advantage of the transistor. We see massive shifts in the
economic structure taking place over brief time spans now and we manage
to accommodate to it. Look what is happening in Europe -- in the space
of a few months East German has ceased to exist, the monetary system
has quite quickly shifted, travel has god-knows-how-many-upled, yet man
and his economic system marches on. In AZ we have seen the economy go
from darn good to pretty bad in quite a few sectors in only a year or
two, yet people are adjusting quite quickly. The construction workers
have zipped right over to CA where the market is hot still. We have
seen 200 billion in assets go up in smoke in the S & L fiasco but even
that really isn't affecting people in the sense that they feel their
whole life has been turned upside down. Maybe I'm just too optimistic,
but I think the economy and populace could easily accomodate a sudden
change to free power and food given the time it would take to actually
implement such a thing and also because it is a positive change. I
would not say the same if the premise was that something was going to
make food and power 10 times more expensive. I think that would be
far more disruptive because we are ALL users whereas in the first
instance, only a small portion of us are PROVIDERS.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: True..
Date: 14 Apr 90 22:37:00 GMT
If one were to hypothesize one might suggest that any group advanced
enough to come here to visit would be able to rig their ships so that
if anything went wrong the ship would simple selfdestruct in such a way
as to leave no meaningful residue for us to study. One might also
posit that an advance race would also be unlikely to suffer mechanical
breakdowns due to their superior abilities.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: <RBMURDOC@colospgs.bitnet>
Subject: Interesting Materials / Missing BBS
Date: 15 Apr 90 17:17:46 GMT
The 3* interview has me curious, & I have some questions. Frequently, I see
references made to Cooper, Lear, et al. Also, I am aware of some older
articles (past year, or so):
- Operation Majority by M.W. Cooper
- Origin & meaning of KRLL, etc. by M.W. Cooper
- Human Mutilation Factor by D. Ecker
- A Strange Harvest Continues by L.M. Howe
- Project Grudge / Aquarius by MAJI (Cooper?)
- CUFON Freedom of Information Act Document Files
- etc., etc.
I would be interested in reading these, & similar, related articles, checking
them out for myself, & making my own conclusions. Unfortunantly, these
documents are difficult to find.
So, does there exist a way to access these materials? Presumbably they've
been archived somewhere; is there a LISTSERV address, or an FTP node available?
Or, I would have no problem dialing into a BBS to download such material; but
such sites are rather difficult to find, which brings up my last question(s).
In the March/April (Volume 5, Number 2) issue of "UFO", there is in the back
a reference to 2 BBSs:
- ParaNet Information Service: 303/232-6115 (9600-8-N-1)
(this number has been disconnected, or is no longer in service)
- UFONET Computer Information Service: 602/526-8025
(this number has been disconnected, or is no longer in service)
Neither of these boards exist. Why? Can someone share with me the number of
a board that does exist? If all else fails, could someone just Email me a
copy? Thanks ahead of time, -Robert
Robert B. Murdock
University of Colorado at Colorado Springs
*------------------------------------------*
| BITnet: rbmurdock@colospgs |
| INTERnet: rbmurdoc@colospgs.bitnet |
| ARPAnet: rbmurdock@colospgs.EDU |
| UUnet: uunet!colospgs.bitnet!RBMURDOC |
| GEnie: R.MURDOCK |
| FIDOnet: 1:128/16.0 Robert Murdock |
*------------------------------------------*
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From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.)
Subject: Tesla
Date: 15 Apr 90 22:40:44 GMT
Clarke: There is a sympathetic article on Tesla in the June 1986
issue of the Smithsonian magazine , with quite a few old pix.
Whether Tesla also deserves credit for the Star Wars (SDI) concept,
I can't say.
I have heard of Project OZMA, but frankly I can't
imagine Carl Sagan not announcing it if anything intelligible
had been received. The official story is that Frank Drake
bootlegged time on a radiotelescope for the the search. The book
SETI has a good history of the search for ET radio waves, as
do other publications of Sagan and the Planetary Society.
Tesla was never mentioned in any of the SETI books and
articles I've seen.
Im not sure I understand what a scalar wave
would be. Is it something like a sound wave which requires only
one number to characterize its instantaneous value (pressure)?
Some theorists have compared the QM vacuum
with its fields and virtual particles to the ether --- John
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen
Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Date: 15 Apr 90 06:54:00 GMT
JD>the water we drink, and when it comes right down to it, you can eat pretty
JD>cheaply if you like beans and bread.
I used to live in Ajo,Arizona a longgggg time ago..As I recall,
water wasn't exactly free or cheap (Ajo is in the thick of the
desert). It was "free" if you were willing to drill deep enough
but then,you'd be paying for the electricity to run the pumps
to pull it up. Now,I live in the Central Florida area and guess
what? I still have to pay for water,so it ain't "free".
I don't agree that there's many merchants that would sit still
for long if (since we're speaking in the hypothetical sense)
the "space brothers" came down to our dimension and released
the info on building an apparatus that would provide truly
free electricity (remember..Nikola Tesla and the Schumann
cavity?) OR gave us a truly safe method of generating and
distributing nuclear energy without all the mess that we presently
have (nuclear waste,et al).
As for food production and distribution..that's something we're
already working on but at a slow rate (hydroponics) but wait!
..what if (oh god..there he goes again!) the "space brothers"
had a means to plant a seed and make it grow into a plant before
your very eyes?! That sounds like an impossibility to our known
physics,but I believe the knowledge of something like this already
exists.
Let's talk about your basic transportation...a car for example.
What do you think the big US carmakers and the Japanese would
react if the technology was released in a vehicle that burned
NO hydocarbons or fossil fuels..NO built-in obsolescence. That
could put LOTS of people out of work. As I recall from reading
the books on Atlantis there was mention of a vehicle called
a VALIX that operated in much a manner that the UFO's do,and
could seat from 2 people to a bus-like conveyance. It operated
on the "night-side" principle (whatever that is).
I could ramble on and on,but you get the idea.
I think it's entirely possible,though some may argue whether
it's plausible that a scenario of "too-soon" released info
of higher tech from the UFOs COULD precipitate a war. Think
of all the OIL interests that would LOSE OUT if such info
were forthcoming and commonplace.And the UTILITY companies
as well.
I believe alot would be impacted..electrical distribution,
food production and distribution,transportation,electronics
and computers, the list is endless. It WOULD alter our civilization.
--
Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Don.Allen@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Ray.Griffin
Subject: UFO Video
Date: 15 Apr 90 12:15:00 GMT
Last night, I returned a call which I had received from Cathy Ware,
Publicity Chairwoman for the July Mufon Symposium, she told me that
several people were going to a certain spot to watch for UFOs. Afew
nights earlier, at another location, an object was seen, but Cathy is
near-sighted and could not see it clearly. Because of this, some of the
video team were frustrated with her, as they wanted complete agreement
on what was seen. I told Cathy I would join them. Shortly, after the
people arrived, a large ball of red light came bouncing and yo-yoing in
directly towards them, hesitated for (pictures) and then zoomed off
into the NorthEastern sky, changing to a white sphere as it leftthe
scene. This video as well as several other 35mm shots could prove
interesting to those who attend the Mufon Symposium, as it will surly
be featured. There were many witnesses across the city. As to an
investigation. It isn't necessary, nothing could move the way it did,
and there isn't any need to confirm to the witnesses that they saw what
they saw. In the famous words of Fyffe " I seen what I seen ".
--
Ray Griffin - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Ray.Griffin@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Novak
Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Date: 16 Apr 90 04:02:00 GMT
Not to mention the fact that the real people who hold the power in this
country would lose control if suddenly fossil fuels were no longer
used, food supplies were plentiful, medicine was advanced to put major
Pharmaceutical companies out of business...all the areas of heavy
investments by International financiers and the power elite. This would
be unacceptable, since I feel the goal of these people is to be at the
top of a "World Economy" and therefore firmly in control. Loook at what
has already been done over the years to put down alternative energy
sources, alternative medical practices not sanctified by the A.M.A, the
dependence on fossil fuels even though there's absolute proofthat we're
destroying the ozone layer and our ecological balance. There's the
increase of freedoms in the Eastern Block while freedoms are gradually
being taken away from us in the West...is it paving the way for a world
economy? Who knows for sure...but it's a cinch the people in control
aren't going to let any of these apple carts be overturned at least
until there's an acceptable alternative plan. And if our "Gov." still
is unsure of what's going on concerning the E.T. presence and can't
assure the public that they can do anything about it, there will be no
way to retain control. (Especially once it's realized that they have
allowed many questionable things to go on for many years while covering
it up). Yes...I think there are plenty of reasons why a cover-up must
continue until info. can be released on the Gov's. terms and timetable.
--
John Novak - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Novak@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Novak
Subject: Re: True..
Date: 16 Apr 90 04:10:00 GMT
I think your point is well taken. Could this mean that perhaps they
want their presence known and have some sort of plan or method for
doing this? Just thinking out loud. I think landings on the White House
lawn are products of Hollywood and not advanced thinking. Not very
subtle...and obviously if UFO's do exist they've been pretty subtle so
far for some reason.
--
John Novak - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Novak@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: logajan@ns.network.com (John Logajan)
Subject: Klass vs Clark
Date: 16 Apr 90 17:16:39 GMT
John H. Chalmers, Jr. -- a couple of quibbles with things mentioned in one
of your paranet posts:
1.) You take Jerome Clark to task for saying that Klass had not disproved
the authenticity of the MJ-12 papers. I suspect Clark said that
because Klass was claiming at the time that he had in fact disproved the
authenticity. Whether Klass has since cast further doubt on MJ-12 hardly
reflects poorly on Clark, contrary to what you suggest.
Clark is an investigator in the true sense of the word. He did not start
out assuming that MJ-12 was true or false. He did not say that MJ-12 was
to be assumed true until proven false. He merely took the situation as it
arose and attempted to investigate it. He never said that MJ-12 was
authentic, but neither was he side-tracked by pre-mature pronouncements
of its inauthenticity.
2.) I think your quotation of Klass's abductee challenge demonstrates
the silliness that Klass has engaged in. You said he challenged
abductees to report their abduction to the FBI, and you claim he said
that their failure to do so further demonstrates the inauthenticity
of their claims. You also mention that he said that it is a serious
punishable crime to report "false" kidnappings.
But wouldn't any report of a kidnapping by paranormal beings be considered
prima facie evidence of a false kidnapping report. Even assuming such an
abduction actually occurred, wouldn't the government punish anyone
officially reporting such a thing because of the official stand that
UFO's do not exist (as alien manifestations.)
So what did Klass prove by this challenge? What is proved in either case
(abductees do report as challenged, or abductees refuse to report)?
Klass, in my book, makes a serious logical mistake in assuming that
alternate explanations are PROOF. In fact, there are an infinite number
of alternate explanations for any given observed phenomena. Some fit the
known evidence better than others, but not all the evidence is always
conclusive, so assuming PROOF in these cases is not a LOGICAL option.
I consider myself a skeptic, but I consider Klass a debunker. He has
taken a certain advocacy position -- and as such he is ALSO required to
adduce sufficient supportive evidence. He cannot merely make counter
assertions to support his position.
As a skeptic, I expect that both Clark and Klass must prove their cases.
I also know that both Clark and Klass are skeptics also (as any true
scientific investigator must be.) But it is vital that one recognize when
one has crossed the border of valid skepticism and entered into an
advocacy position (i.e. defending the current orthodoxy.)
I know, too, that both Clark and Klass (and myself) have their own biases.
Clark investigates UFO's because he thinks there must be something behind
it all (beyond mere hoax) while Klass assumes the opposite. Obviously I
myself have my own bias. But all three of us (and the world in general)
can work beyond our biases and act as true skeptics. In my opinion
Klass has failed to do this more egregiously than Clark. Clark behaves
more in the model of the true skeptic, and I admire him for that.
- John Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428
- logajan@ns.network.com, john@logajan.mn.org, 612-424-4888, Fax 424-2853
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From: Gene Gross <gross@dg-rtp.dg.com>
Subject: More info on a film
Date: 16 Apr 90 19:53:54 GMT
Hi all,
Some time back, say about a month or two ago, I saw a documentary called
"The Force Beyond." Toward the very end of the film was part of a BW
film shot from an airplane window. Instead of some fuzzy object, there
in all its glory was the cigar-shaped craft.
I reviewed the film again Sunday night in the hopes that Donn Davison,
who produced, co-wrote, and sometimes narrated the film, might explain
the origins of the piece of BW film. He never does. But I watched it
several times. The most errie piece of film I've watched yet.
In addition, here is some more information I got from the film. Two of
the many people interviewed were Professor Donald Elkins, physicist, and
Michael C. Heleus, mathematician. They were talking about the bands of
light seen when studying a UFO. Their basic conclusions were that to
create the bands of light required at least "200,000 gauss." The
Earth's magnetic field measures only 1/2-gauss. (That is what they
said--I'm just reporting it. ;-))
Among some of the others interviewed were William Pitts, Jim and Coral
Lorenzen, and Mr. Friend. They also ran some interviews conducted at a
convention in Fort Smith, AR, several years ago.
The film starts off rather melodramatically, with all kinds of warnings
and disclaimers about not being responsible for any problems that the
information in the film might cause. Once you get past that, there are
some good film pieces from a variety of sources. Several of the NASA
pics caused me to sit up and take notice--I hadn't seen them before.
Has anyone else seen this film? If so, what did you think about the
film as a whole and about the cigar-shaped craft shown at the end of the
film?
Gene
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