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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 205
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 205
Monday, April 16th 1990
Today's Topics:
Re: 3 Star Interview
Re: Black Helicopters
Re: Fyffe Sighting
Klass
Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Re: Black Helicopters
Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Re: Important Info.
Re: Black Helicopters
Re: Moore Of The Same!
Re: Black Helicopters
Re: 3 Star Interview
Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Re: Black Helicopters
Re: Black Helicopters
Re: 3 Star Interview
True..
Re: Spies, Lies & ET's
Re: Black Helicopters
Science
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: 3 Star Interview
Date: 13 Apr 90 04:40:00 GMT
Yes, I suspect it would be hard to find a firm that was disconnected
enough from gvt to be truely private that would also be considered
suitable for such use BY the gvt. Theyl would need enough tentacles
into the firm to maintain a reasonable degree of control.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Schwartz
Subject: Re: Black Helicopters
Date: 13 Apr 90 06:01:00 GMT
I asked about filing an official complaint, and was told that without a
tail number on the craft, or clear military markings, there was no
way to verify the craft. I didn't push it farther than that, since I
assumed it would lead down a dead end.
--
Michael Schwartz - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!Jerry.Woody
Subject: Re: Fyffe Sighting
Date: 14 Apr 90 00:19:00 GMT
Hi Gene;
Sorry I missed this message for so long. My Paranet feed went down for
a few days and things got lost in the shuffle. I'll try to keep you up
to date.
Jerry
--
Jerry Woody - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Klass
Date: 13 Apr 90 21:47:00 GMT
Thank you for your clarifications, John. Now, for some of my own.
-+ > On the the Univ. of Nebraska conference case, nobody has
-+ > presented any confirming evidence and my question on
-+ > what grounds Klass could threaten UN with legal action
-+ > has not been answered.
-+ > Since a later MUFON conference
-+ > was held at UN, the story is suspect.
I have a letter in to Dan Wright, Deputy Director of MUFON, who has an entire
file on this incident. You should be hearing from me further on this issue in
great detail in a few weeks. Klass, incidentally, does not deny the incident;
he and I have actually spoken about it.
-+ > Clark in "Fringes of Reason," JC speaks of the MJ-12
-+ > documents as not having been refuted by Klass despite
-+ > "frantic" efforts.
At the time JC wrote, the documents were still under strong scrutiny by
several groups independently. They had not been refuted. Klass had damned the
documents from day one by means of loud protest, using unqualified statements
such as "outrageous hoax," but failed to produce any convincing evidence until
the recent Truman signature. Most of the best debunking of the documents was
done by Barry Greenwood and Christopher Allen, as I have mentioned. The point
is that, right out of the chute, while the rest of us were saying, "there is
sufficient reason to be highly suspicious of these documents," Klass was
yelling "fraud," belying his anti-UFO bias. Again, John, I do not question
Klass' integrity, only his objectivity, and therefore his methods, and
therefore his suitability at representing CSICOP and Establishment Science.
-+ > Klass has challenged alleged abductees to
-+ > report their kidnapping to the FBI as the government
-+ > can impose fairly heavy penalties for false crime
-+ > reports.($10,000 fine + prison?)
The challenge was met almost the very day Klass issued it. When he appeared
with Budd Hopkins on Oprah Winfrey and dared abductees to go to the FBI,
Hopkins produced a packet containing copies of cases which had been
transmitted to the Bureau with the full cooperation of his abductees -
including name and address. Pointless? Of course... you and I both know what
the FBI's reaction would be, and so did Hopkins....AND so did Klass. There
would be no reaction, either for against the alleged abductees. So why did
Klass issue the challenge? I really don't know, do you have any ideas?
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen
Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Date: 14 Apr 90 01:50:00 GMT
JD>And at least one of them, I think it was Carter, essentially said that he
JD> would make the gvt open its books on UFO's if he was elected.
Yes,I remember hearing the same thing as well. Nothing much was
ever spoken about this publicly thereafter. It may have been that
Carter was told not to say anything from ssome of the intelligence
agencies,I don't know.
JD>I am not persuaded by any of their arguments that they have actually
JD>figured out the truth, but I am convinced that there is something that the
JD>gvt knows that relates to UFO's that they are, in fact, not telling us. It
JD>may be as simple as "We don't know what the heck is up their and until
JD>we do we are going to continue to deny ANYTHING is up their."
Well,like you I'm not so sure either that the Govt knows the "whole"
truth.....or it it does,the Govt ain't saying.
Considering our race's propensity towards violence and confusion given
certain circumstances (ie. the looting in the wake of Hurricane
Hugo,etc) and other natural "disasters"...certainly the Govt might
feel that it's unwise to come forth and go on record publicly about
otherwordly visitors on this world..there was something about this
mentioned in Don Ecker's recent postings that touched briefly on
this very issue..to wit,that if UFO's WERE public knowledge,how
would the public react..how would the Religions of the world react
to this..the ramifications of all of this is staggering if you stop
and consider it..
I don't believe at all that it would be accepted calmly by all the
world's different societies. Personally,I think that there WOULD be
mass confusion in some areas.
Especially would the commercial powers-that-be would be threatened
if a craft WERE to land and provide info on the FREE distribution
of electricity,or how to grow food cheaper and easier,etc.
It's a matter of when it happens and I believe that it's quite
possible that we ARE being "prepared" in stages to accept what
we now call (UFO's) as being a reality.
My wife has the distinction of being a real skeptic about all of
this,which I see as a necessary thing as being a point of BALANCE.
Her point is not unlike a lot of viewpoints I have seen,which
is chiefly, "I'll believe it when I see a UFO land on the White
House lawn or on National (ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN) TV.
Unlike her,I HAVE seen a UFO up-close and for me,that is a good deal
of the proof that I've required. I don't need reams of documentation
to believe in what my own eyes proved,nor do I need to undergo
hypnosis. But that's just me,and most people WILL require the
documentation to express an opinion one way or the other,and I
think that's a muchly needed factor here,until we can arrive
at a SOLID consensus. I think we just need more time to gather
information and sort it all out as to what we can do (if anything).
--
Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Black Helicopters
Date: 14 Apr 90 03:35:00 GMT
Although it may not have had markings I got the impression from you
discription that it could not have been anything other then military,
no one else would be flying an armed copter.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Date: 14 Apr 90 03:41:00 GMT
The only thing I would disagree with is the idea that business want's
it covered up due to the loss of profits from "free food" , "free
electricity" etc. It's true that there would be a slight economic
impact for a short period of time but it would be very slight and the
transition would cover a good many years. The reason I say that is
that we already have many free things, like the air we breath, and for
all practical purposes, the water we drink, and when it comes right
down to it, you can eat pretty cheaply if you like beans and bread.
All that the new "free" things would mean is that we would ALL ahve a
higher standard of living. Given that the amount of available labor is
a fixed quantity, if some people were freed from haveing to labor to
produce food, they could shift their labors to produceing more and/or
cheaper computers, and more people would be able to afford them (and
modems too) and the various UFO echos could grow.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Important Info.
Date: 14 Apr 90 04:47:00 GMT
Isn't leaving public messages regarding things that can't be discussed
openly one of the marks of a professional investigator?
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Re: Black Helicopters
Date: 12 Apr 90 06:36:00 GMT
-+ > features a cover story on the NSA entitled "Eyes Only". The article
-+ > points out that the NRO (Natn'l. Recon.) really exists. So the alleged
-+ > home of the Black Copters isn't just a Cooperfiction after all!
John,
I think Cooper got that from me. I rattled off a list of spook agencies at him
once, just to test his knowledge. He feigned familiarity with the NRO, I
think. At least he had never mentioned it before, and then a couple of days
later, out he comes with another "OK, this is REALLY it" file, in which he
mentions the NRO. But yes, the NRO is one agency I've been very interested in
for a long time. While everyone was whispering "NSA" with an air of reverent
mystery, I was picking up dribs and drabs about the National Recon Office.
Apparently its run by the Navy, its budget is more highly classified than the
Puzzle Palace, and I cannot for the life of me find out where its
headquartered. Did the article shed any light on this?
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Re: Moore Of The Same!
Date: 12 Apr 90 06:38:00 GMT
-+ > Jim: There's going to be at least one more excavation expedition at the
-+ > crash site. Anyone who wants to help out with the "grunt work" is
-+ > invited to go along & should contact CUFOS.
When???
-+ > kiddie koffins (sorry!). Mark said that the CUFOS investigation
-+ > revealed no such info & that it sounded like BS. -- John
OK. I thought it CAME from CUFOS, but guess I was wrong.
Jim
--
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Schwartz
Subject: Re: Black Helicopters
Date: 12 Apr 90 16:07:00 GMT
John, we nearly were! We had to go into a slight skid to keep from
hitting the damn thing. You mention "Cooperfiction". I am new to these
parts, are you referring to John Cooper? If you could give me more info
on what books, and where to find them. This experience has piqued my
curiousity to say the least. Also the NSA/NRO bit does not surprise me.
Again, this had no markings of any type, was armed to the teeth, and
the crew was not wearing a typical military flight suit. We really
were that close to it. I know that Marana has been a CIA air station
for quite some time (in addition to other duties), and I really
wondered if that is where this craft came from, or where else it could
have been based. I really do not think it will be very easy to discover
where it came from. I contacted the FAA and did not get anywhere. They
knew nothing of this kind of craft, where it would be based, or why it
would be operating the way it did with total disregard for public
safety. That is why I asumed it was a military or intelligence agency
operating it.
--
Michael Schwartz - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: 3 Star Interview
Date: 12 Apr 90 23:10:00 GMT
I think there is more reason to not believe MJ-12 then to beleive it.
Doesn't mean their isn't a high level group charged with keeping an eye
on UFO's but it stains my credulity to think that in an effort to turn
peoples attentino away from finding out about a high level group they
would start a disinformatino campaign about a high level group. What
would make infinately more sense, from a disinfo standpoint would be
this -- If there was a Private Group, like a small group within RAND
corp or some other think tank THEN the idea of a disinfo campaign like
MJ-12 would make sense maybe since it would draw people away from
PRIVATE groups, as a focal point, toward GVT groups. And vice versa.
If you really believe MJ-12 is disinfo, then the place to really be
looking is in the PRIVATE consulting area - the various companies that
do lots of hush hush gvt work but who AREN"T gvt.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter
Date: 12 Apr 90 23:15:00 GMT
I think you are correct, the gvt is not likely to try and shut down any
of these UFO nets. It would be a little too obvious. What is much
more likely is that they would have a few agents join the net and
constantly enter messages that are of the "New age - New Physics" ilk,
to keep anyone from being able to maintain a discussion on a level
dealing with the world as it exists. As long as people like ts bennett
are around to drive everyone up a wall with his innane theories and
totally unsupported allegations and ravings, the net will remain pretty
innocuous and is unlikely to make any real progress.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Black Helicopters
Date: 12 Apr 90 23:17:00 GMT
The NRO (Nat recon Office) existance has been common knowledge for
quite a few years now. A recent article about it in no way provides
any support for Coopers material.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Black Helicopters
Date: 12 Apr 90 23:22:00 GMT
When you called the FAA did you just make inquiry or did you tell them
you wanted to file smoething inthe way of an offical complaint. I'm
sure they would rather not get involved but I'd like to see you push it
as a complaint and demand an investigation. (Course, that's easy for
me to say :-) )
o
______/
/() \
-MM<MMMMMMMM>MM-
\______/
\\
\\
\\
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Re: 3 Star Interview
Date: 13 Apr 90 00:15:00 GMT
-+ > PRIVATE groups, as a focal point, toward GVT groups. And vice versa.
-+ > If you really believe MJ-12 is disinfo, then the place to really be
-+ > looking is in the PRIVATE consulting area - the various companies that
-+ > do lots of hush hush gvt work but who AREN"T gvt.
Jim, correct me if I'm wrong, but RAND corporation is at least
semi-government, yes? I think you might have an idea there, though.
Jim
--
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From: paranet!f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Forseti
Subject: True..
Date: 13 Apr 90 10:59:00 GMT
True, there may be nothing to detect.....
I believe there is a good possibility UFO's exist, but what puzzles me is
that there are (I think) government sponsored projects to contact alien
life.. such as those radio waves beamed to the nearest star system and some
groups monitoring, waiting for a transmission, etc.. Theyre trying so HARD
to find them, and yet if aliens are coming here, how come theres not one
single slipup and they detect alien life?
--
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From: paranet!f725.n209.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Karen.Henderson
Subject: Re: Spies, Lies & ET's
Date: 14 Apr 90 17:23:40 GMT
I agree that there isn't a lot of information with which to make a
decision out there concerning UFO's. If you ever have someone who you
trust (relative) who has seen them, then you're more inclined to
believe. You can't prove it to others, but who cares about them,
anyhow? Not everyone will believe everything that can be proven,
anyway.
--
Karen Henderson - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: paranet!f725.n209.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Karen.Henderson
Subject: Re: Black Helicopters
Date: 14 Apr 90 17:28:43 GMT
Try Groom Lake, NV.
--
Karen Henderson - via FidoNet node 1:209/722
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From: isis!well!ddrasin (Dan Drasin)
Subject: Science
Date: 15 Apr 90 05:11:26 GMT
Science
-+ From: koreth@ebay.sun.com (Steven Grimm)
-+ What you call chronocentricity, I call science. Isn't that what
-+ science is all about? Forming a theory to explain a phenomenon
-+ based on the best currently available data?
Better read that posting again, Steven. "Chronocentricity" wasn't
defined as forming reasonable theories based on current knowledge, but
as holding the belief that current knowledge is complete.
Science is based on process. It's founded on the belief that knowledge
is always incomplete and open-ended. If it weren't, it would have
called it quits in the 17th Century. Isn't that fairly obvious?
Science came into being precisely to *challenge* the notion that any
body of knowledge was "final." At least that's the way I learned it.
-+ What sort of world do you have when people just assume that
-+ everything is beyond explanation?
You must have read a different posting than the one I did, Steve. I
don't remember anything about "everything being beyond explanation."
That sounds like quite an extreme -- and erroneous --interpretation of
what was said. What's your point?
=d=
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