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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 141
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 141
Thursday, February 1st 1990
Today's Topics:
Yup, balanced.
Where Are They Now?
Cold Fusion/antigravity
OZTRAIN
Dr. Dan Overlade
Mysterious fireballs
Mysterious fireballs
Face, yet again
Re: Where Are They Now?
Robert Lazar's Alien Element 115
Re: Skeptomania is cool
Re: Mars Face
Re: Skeptics
Dr. Dan Overlade
Mysterious fireballs
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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Yup, balanced.
Date: 30 Jan 90 07:27:00 GMT
> Jim, are you complacent with the current situation?
By and large, yes. Its only in the field of UFOs that I see things
bogging down unnecessarily. OK, Loch Ness seems to be another area that
is getting very short shrift. But other than that, I think skepticism
vs. believerism is as natural as Democrat vs. Republican.
> Hard-line
> skepticism
> continues to damage the human race by making it increasingly
> difficult
> to investigate and report on ANY new and unusual research. And,
> like I
> was trying to imply in my last posting, the CSICOP type of
> skepticism is
> FASHIONABLE.
Well, yes and no. Yes in the sense that CSICOP is gaining a whole bunch
of followers, but no in the sense that I don't think there is one
"CSICOP" type of skepticism. Within that organization, despite the
unified face it shows us, there is a wide range of disagreement on
policy, investigative modes, and even what is and is not "established."
However, some of the newer converts to CSICOP do seem to be very
"rah-rah" hero-worshippers who don't seem to realize that skepticism can
and should be applied to itself.
>
> This skepticism cannot even stand up to its own scrutiny.
> The debunkers are often WRONG, serving only to slow down the
> advancement
> of science. I am against the idea of SPEED LIMITS on the hiway of
> science.
First, I disagree that the debunkers are often wrong. I find it
singularly frustrating how often they are right. I LIKE a good mystery,
but they all too often SUCCEED in taking the mystery out of a lot of
these things. One or two of the skeptics in particular have unimpressive
track records, but on the whole, they're just a damn smart bunch of
dudes. Irritating, smug, cocky, self-satisfied...but damn smart.
Second, I HATE the idea of a speed limit on science. I want everything
solved in my lifetime. And people in hell want ice water. Too
bad. Science, whether we like it or not, is slow, plodding,
methodical...and eventually gets the job done. The cold fusion fiasco is
a perfect example of what happens when science is rushed.
To misquote Winston Churchill, science is probably the WORST method of
obtaining knowledge of the universe...except for all the others.
> -+A true skeptic does NOT assume you are lying. He is simply
> satisfied
> -+that the universe possesses a logical order, that that order
> manifests
> -+itself in the form of empirical evidence, and that he is under
> no
> -+obligation to commit himself to believing anything unless
> empirical
> -+evidence exists in its favor.
> This is the propaganda they want you to believe.
Really? Well, they've succeeded <grin>. Seriously, I said a "true"
skeptic, not the kind that pays lip service to these lofty ideals, then
turns around and has a good chuckle with his buddy about all the
mush-headed UFO believers.
> Skeptics (both
> men and
> women:-), want you to think of skepticism as the scientific
> method. It is
> not. The scientific method is the scientific method and it stands
> on its
> own without any amendments.
Oh contraire. The scientific method and skepticism go hand in hand. One
is an expression of the other.
Keith, again, I'm on your side in a lot of ways. Remember, I'm the guy
that founded ParaNet in order to build a bridge between the two camps.
I see a lot of what you see - the pomposity, the smugness, etc., but in
its purest form, viewed as a philosophy or an approach and not as a
dogma or political movement, skepticism is a very useful tool.
>
> On a different note, I just saw the Billy Meier video this
> weekend.
> This is very interesting. What is he doing now?
Enjoying a hefty income from the tape you viewed.
> Is he still
> alive?
Very. Unfortunately, so is his case. Apparently, its one of those that
will probably never die. Now if you want a good example of where
skepticism can be of great use...
> What about this program on TV about the strange circles in the
> grass
> in Britain?
I understand there will be something on Unsolved Mysteries this
Wednesday night. That one's a real corker to me, too, although something
tells me it does have a prosaic explanation. "UFOs" would just be too
easy...
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Where Are They Now?
Date: 30 Jan 90 07:34:00 GMT
> Does anyone have the current address and phone number of NICAP? A
> friend
> asked me to check on this as it would be a local call for me, but
> when I
> phone, I get a law firm. The address she gave me was 5012 Del Ray
> Avenue,
> Washington, DC, 301-654-8091. The phone number is wrong in any
> case
> because the DC area code is 202. Maryland is 301.
Your address is correct, its just a little out of date. NICAP kicked
the bucket about 15 years ago. Its files were absorbed by CUFOS, its
membership disbanded.
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Cold Fusion/antigravity
Date: 30 Jan 90 07:38:00 GMT
> I think that these are two examples of anomalistic and
> non-traditional physics being published in reputable, reviewed
> journals and being taken seriously by the physics community which
> seems not to be as hidebound or close-minded as often thought.
> Only time and more work will tell if this work or its
> predecessors hold up. ---John
But John, what will this say about the public whipping P&F took from the
scientific community after the first wave of publicity? Or is it that,
no matter what the outcome, P&F were naughty for holding a press
conference so quickly.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: OZTRAIN
Date: 31 Jan 90 01:42:00 GMT
>
> This is an excellent example of how ParaNet can serve to pass on
> information that would not otherwise become available.
It sure is, and we're lovin' every minute of it here in the states. See
that, gang? THIS is what we're about - NETWORKING!!
Bob, Vlad, David, Keith, please keep us updated on the OZTRAIN incident.
If you guys are familiar with our rating system (S vs. P), I'd like to
know what kind of preliminary rating you assign this case.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: paranet!f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
Subject: Dr. Dan Overlade
Date: 31 Jan 90 07:00:00 GMT
Recently, I received word that Dr. Dan Overlade had passed away.
For those that are not aware of this name, Dr. Overlade was
involved in abduction research in Gulf Breeze, Florida. He was
the psychologist that worked with Ed Walters on his now infamous
Gulf Breeze UFO incidents. Dr. Overlade became very heavily
involved in this research following Ed's experiences.
The reason for this posting is to clear up a few things. I have
heard from several people that Dr. Overlade's death was under
mysterious circumstances. He apparently died suddenly over the
Christmas last after what was relayed to me a "mysterious
illness." As an interested reporter I made inquiries into this
and found quite the opposite.
Dr. Overlade was in poor health following a severe heart attack a
few years back. A couple of bypass surgeries were performed on
him, however the damage done to his heart was too advanced.
During last Thanksgiving, he apparently suffered a heart attack
and was immediately hospitalized. Shortly thereafter, he
developed pneumonia. After a good battle with this complication,
he died. As was told to me, he died under quite natural
circumstances and there was nothing mysterious about his death.
This information was told to me by reliable sources.
With that in mind, I would like to also say that the UFO
community will miss him. I had an opportunity to meet him
personally at a workshop in Aspen, Colorado in October, however
because of circumstances beyond my control, I did not make it.
Although I had never had the opportunity to talk with him by
telephone, I understand that he was performing important work
with other abductees.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
Subject: Mysterious fireballs
Date: 31 Jan 90 08:42:00 GMT
Recently there has been a flood of reports about fireballs in the night
sky. They have been seen in Denver and other parts of the United States.
While I am inclined to believe that they are meteorites, I am concerned
about the reported colors and movements of some of them. In the early 50s,
green fireballs were reported in large numbers in the sky in New Mexico.
Dr. Lincoln LaPaz gave this subject a great deal of study and was very
perplexed by the same things that raise my interest now -- the color and the
movements.
Below is an article provided by Paul Faeder regarding the lights over the
East Coast the other day. This is an AP story. I would like to hear from
our scientific members about this and some idea of what this could be
attributed to.
==========================================================
STRANGE LIGHT LIGHTS UP EAST COAST SWITCHBOARDS
"We are quite confident it was not a manmade
object re-entering. We have no idea what it was."
-Major Dick Adam NORAD PR officer.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Thousands of people in the Eastern United States
reported seeing a strange bluish-green light in the sky Saturday
night which some experts said could have been an unusually large
meteorite.
"We are quite confident it was not a manmade object re-entering,"
said Maj. Dick Adam, public affairs officer for the North American
Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) in Colorado Springs, Colorado. "We
have no idea what it was."
Robert Gribble of the National UFO reporting Center in Seattle, a
private group, reported receiving dozens of calls.
"Based on descriptions that have been given, I'd say we're dealing
with a very large solid, a very large meteor," said Gribble.
"Description run from a blue-green to a bright gereen coming down
in an angular descent leaving a short tail behind it," said Gribble.
He said everyone who had telephoned the center described the object,
"as coming down and hitting the ground in their area, which is very
common in something like this."
Among the people who reported seeing the object was David Arnold,
an area air traffic control supervisor at Dulles Airport, where the
sighting occurred at 7:10 pm EST.
"We don't know exactly what it was, a meteor or a satellite," said
Arnold, who has been an air traffic controller for 25 years. "It
lasted 25 to 30 seconds and went from brilliant white to an orange as
it broke up.
"We've seen things like this before, but much higher. This was
quite brilliant. It appeared to have dissipated completely."
However, not all witnesses saw the object change color and appear to
disappear.
A television reporter in Oak Hill, W. Va,. one of the places where
there was a flurry of initial sightings was at the home of one of the
first witnesses nearly three hours after the initial sighting and
reported the light was still hovering in the sky.
Kitty Harrison, assignment editor for WOAY-TV in Oak Hill, W.Va.,
said what she saw was "absolutely not" a meteorite.
"I've seen meteorites before and this doesn't resemble the type of
meteorite I've seen," she told The Associated Press in a telephone
interview from the home of Elizabeth Gray and her son, Chris, in
Stanford, West Va.
"What we are seeing is a very bright bluish white object that appears
to be moving downward toward the horizon in an erratic spiraling
motion," Harrison told the AP. "It is very slow. You have to keep your
eye fixed to something stationary in order to see it's progress."
Chris Gray, 13, was carrying firewood to the house when he saw the
object.
"I saw the sky light up for the meteorite and then about half an
hour later I saw what I'll call a UFO, and then when the television
called me back they told me to tape it on my cam corder and while we
were taping it was changing colors and it started seperating and going
back together again," said Chris Gray.
Among the witnesses in the Washington area was Andrew Guthrie, a
news editor at the Voice of America since 1983.
"It was a dramatic thing to see," said Guthrie. "I almost drove off
the road." He said the object appeared to be "three-or-four times
treetop level" and about the size of a grapefruit with an
"incandescent bright light at the center like a magnesium flare."
An AP reporter walking along Pennsylvania Avenue in the Foggy Bottom
section of Washington recalled thinking initially that it was some
type manmade firework similar to flares shot in the sky on the Fourth
of July because it was very bright and distinct, appeared to be moving
across the sky at about the same speed typical of such displays,
seemed to have a tail and appeared to be low enough to have been shot
from the balcony of one of the multistory apartment buildings in the
area.
However, the light remained on a flat trajectory, moving rapidly
across the sky without fading.
Sightings were reported from an area ranging from West Virginia and,
along the Eastern Seaboard, from Virgina to New York.
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
Subject: Mysterious fireballs
Date: 31 Jan 90 08:47:00 GMT
In followup to the Fireballs article, I wanted to relate an experience that
I had a few weeks back. Actually, it was before Christmas by about three
weeks.
While driving home from the coffee shop I noticed a bright burst of white
light over the downtown area of Denver. The burst was like a firework
display going off. At first, I thought that it was a firework, however
there was absolutely no color to it. I did not see it come in -- only
explode. It appeared to be very low to the ground, however this judgment
could be flawed due to the lack of time involved with focusing on it -- it
was gone almost instantly.
I have attributed this to a meteor, however I am interested in knowing if
this type of behavior is normal for a meteor entering the atmosphere and
making it relatively close to the ground. Would there be no color? Would
there not be a sound associated with this? Also, I realize that we are in a
period of meteorite activity, however, there seems to be a lot of the large
ones being seen. Is this normal?
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: mailrus!uunet!crdos1.crd.ge.com!davidsen
Subject: Face, yet again
Date: 31 Jan 90 12:16:30 GMT
A few comments on some of the comments in this history
-+
-+ A VERY BRIEF CHRONOLOGY OF THE INDEPENDENT MARS INVESTIGATION
1. On Cairo. First a ref. to the Pharohs,
-+ Hoagland observes that the stripes on the "helmet" of the face
-+ bear an uncanny resemblance to those of the Egyptian Pharaohs;
-+ dialogue among the team reveals that "Cairo" is a western
-+ transliteration of "El Kahira," which, in Arabic, mean "Mars."
and then a ref. to 500,000 BC as a date when things would line up to
show the sunrise directly over the face.
-+ He then discovers what appears to be a "marker" at the City's exact
-+ lateral center that looks like a target or cross-hairs. He dubs this
-+ the "City Square" and notices that a hypothetical observer standing
-+ at this point would see: a) the best possible profile view of the
-+ Face, and b) the Summer solstice sunrise, beyond the Face. Since
-+ Mars' axis wobbles over a million-year cycle, the solstice sunrise
-+ would have been seen directly over the eyes of the Face about 1/2
-+ million BC.
These facts don't seem to correlate very well. If you assume that (a)
the face is an artifact, and (b) that a race which could build something
of that size would still find the solstice important enough for an
undertaking of that size, then you have to disregard the Pharoh
connection or the solstice connection. They are just too far apart. I
suppose if you can postulate all this you can believe in a time machine
which looked forward to the days of the pharohs.
2. All the math...
-+ Hoagland and Torun announce that they have begun to decode the
-+ "mathematical message of Cydonia" which hinges on the redundancy of
-+ e/pi and e/sqrt 5 observed in the D&M Pyramid and elsewhere.
It's easy to find pi relationships in any regular polygon, or anything
which approximates one. People wondered for years about the pi relations
in the pyramids until they found more info on the construction and
realized that measurements of distance had been made by rolling a roller
of a fixed diameter.
I find it hard to believe that if some entity wanted to leave a
message that they would not just leave a message. If you take almost
anything you can find some relationships after you look hard enough. If
you studied all the other Mars pictures with the same intensity I
suspect you could find other relationships in other frames. Perhaps
large rocks in a straight line with the distance increasing by .305,
which is Mickey Mantle's lifetime batting average (I think).
3. More math...
-+ Merton Davies, planetary geographer at the RAND corporation
-+ confirms that the D&M Pyramid sits astride north latitude 40.87
-+ degrees, whose tangent equals e/pi, a value discovered repeatedly by
-+ Torun in the angles of the object itself.
So what? There is no evidence of anything but happenstance here.
4. Statistics...
-+ Hoagland and Torun calculate that if the chance of a given
-+ "coincidence" at Cydonia is multiplied by the chance of the *next*
-+ coincidence, and so on, the net chance of a completely natural
-+ origin for this complex is less than one in several trillion.
This is totally bogus. The chance of any single lottery number coming
up is (depending on the state) about 8 million to one, but they pick one
every week. If you look at the area photographed and the variety of
things found, then you can calculate the probabilty of finding such a
thing. The odds of several trillion may be correct, but how many
trillion areas of that size are there on Mars? Without that info this is
just half a fact.
5. The meaning of the five sided figure
-+ He also obtains low-contrast reproductions of the "pyramid" and
-+ determines that it has not four sides but five, mimicking the form
-+ of a human figure with outstretched arms.
Why yes, any pentagon can be interpreted that way. Lots of them occur
in nature. Maybe the fact that some crystals have five sides is a
message from somewhere? Hogwash. The pyramid looks most like a Chrysler
emblem, perhaps the face is Lee Iococca.
6. A good summary at last
-+ After more than six months of research and dialogue the team
-+ presents its findings at the "Case for Mars" conference at the
-+ University of Colorado at Boulder.
-+
-+ Their paper echoes D&M's conclusions: "Provocative and deserves
-+ further investigation."
Now that's a reasonable approach. To conclude that it would be
interesting to study is exactly right. It will undoubtedly provide a
great deal of information, *but so would any other area of Mars*.
I find most of the conclusions in this matter to be based on looking
until something is found. What does pi/sqrt(5) prove? If the ratios had
been e/sqrt(7) would that show that it was a natural formation? Or would
people have switched to that as an obvious sign of unnatural origin? If
the tangent of e/pi or whatever didn't fit, would the hyperbolic
arcosecant of e/sqrt(21) been touted as significant?
7. and my conclusions
This stuff stands on its own as being interesting and a possible
target for more investigation. To analyze the photo and look for
relationships and messages is bad science. We don't know what signs of
alien artifice are, so looking for them is not very productive, although
you can take whatever you find, convince yourself that it means
something, and then write a book about it. That doesn't mean you're
wrong... just that you are guessing rather than deducing.
I am fairly sure that I know what's really happening about a coverup,
and if I'm right this will be back in the headlines in no less than two
nor mor than five years. Time will tell.
--
bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen)
"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
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From: paranet!p0.f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Komar
Subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Date: 31 Jan 90 07:02:00 GMT
In a message to All <01-29-90 18:55> infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com wrote:
in=>Also, does anyone have current address/phone information on
in=>CUFO and MUFON?
Walt Andrus, International Director of MUFON can be reached at 512-379-9216,
103 Oldtowne Road, Seguin, Texas 78155.
Regards, John
--
John Komar - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Robert.Klinn
Subject: Robert Lazar's Alien Element 115
Date: 31 Jan 90 23:06:00 GMT
>According to an article in the May 1989, Scientific American, by the
>scientists who have synthesized 106, 107, 108, and 109, the atomic
>weight of the isotope of 115 expected to be most stable is 291,
>but their graph suggests it could be as high as 299.
A couple of nights ago, talk show host Billy Goodman, KVEG-AM 840 Radio
in Las Vegas, said Robert Lazar recently told him that the atomic
weight of the alien Element 115 is "271."
--
Robert Klinn - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Skeptomania is cool
Date: 31 Jan 90 17:10:00 GMT
>>Free speech cuts both ways.
Thanks for your well thought out post on that subject. I have lost
count of the number of times I have been beaten upon for having the
audacity to offer a counter-viewpoint to someones cherished beliefs.
For some reason a Believer in Astrology is perfectly free to ramble on
and on about how wonderful it is but someone who offers the opposite
opinion is considered to be committing some sort of social and moral
sin by "offending" the beleivers belief. It seems like the more
irrational the belief, the stronger the "taboo" toward criticism is.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Mars Face
Date: 31 Jan 90 17:41:00 GMT
I'm afraid that you are confusing revising history with revising
science or adding to our knowledge. The face on mars is not going to
suddenly cause us to realize that water doesn't freeze at 32 degrees,
or that like magnets really don't repeal, or that gasoline really
doesn't catch fire. Some scientists may be forced to change their
opinions but, in and of itself, proof positive of the face being
artifical, will not have much effect at all on what we "know" aside
from that one fact and the implications and new ideas that will spring
from it. There are already a fair number of people who seem to be
convinced that the face is of artifical origin but I haven't seen it
having all that much effect on thier lives. Lets say we do get proof
tomarrow. It is front page news. Will that mean you quit you job?
Why? Will that mean people stream into the churches? WHy would they
when so many had no problem dealing with "Chariots of the Gods" and its
"proof" of long ago alien visits right here on earth. Why would the
sort of conditional proof we may someday get about the face be all that
much different. With the scenerio *may* someday play out in terms of
the proof of the artifical origin of the face, I just can't see it as
having that much immediate impact. That is, we are not dealing with
an instance of, say, waking up one morning and reading that scientists
have found a massive structure on the surface of the moon that clearly
is new and artifical and visible thru hobbiest telescopes. We are
dealing with something that has already been on the publics mind for a
few years and that the proof, if there ever is any, will be at best,
slightly ambiguous, at least initially, since it will be based on flyby
photos with on-site sampleing many decades away. In my *opinion*
people are mucbetter at accepting such things then you are giving them
credit for; a million year old artifact isn't going to affect the shine
on their BMW so they aren't going to get too worked up about it.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Skeptics
Date: 31 Jan 90 17:48:00 GMT
You say the establishment stands clear of UFO's and martian objects.
While I think there is some basis for the part about UFO's, just what
would you like the establishment to do in regard to the martian
objects?? Aside from a trip back to mars, which is a little outside th
budget of most researchers, just what research should the local
university be engaged in with regard to the face, that would add
anything to what has already been done? I think you are condeming the
establishment for failing to do something that is clearly impossible.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Dr. Dan Overlade
Date: 1 Feb 90 00:11:00 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up, Mike. We need to "clear the air" as much as
possible and take the mystery-mongering out of this field. By the way,
Saucer Smear also reported Overlade's death as "mysterious." As usual,
we're two steps ahead of the competition....
Jim
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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Mysterious fireballs
Date: 1 Feb 90 00:23:00 GMT
Mike:
Based on the observations of the air traffic controller, who said the
thing lasted for 25-30 seconds, I'd say what we have is a very bright
and long-lived meteor. The people who reported seeing it hover for three
hours and slowly "spiral" towards the horizon were no doubt looking at a
bright star, probably Capella. The lady who said it was "absolutely not
a meteor" could be absolutely wrong. I'd never seen a bright meteor or
bolide until I lived here in Arizona, and now I've seen about six of
them. God only knows how many different types of natural objects stand in the
path of our orbiting planet, and God only knows how strange some of them
might occasionally appear.
As to the color green, I was never able to see what is so strange about
green fireballs, and why meteors that appear green ever deserved so much
attention, LaPaz's work notwithstanding. I've seen a green fireball
myself. It shone through the east-facing window of my old house in
Fountain Hills, arced vertically towards the ground, and fizzled out.
Except for the color, which was a highly incandescent green, it looked
like every other meteor I've ever seen.
I hate to be a spoil-sport, but this one's an S1 in my book. Maybe some
of the more scientific types here can straighten me out on why meteors
shouldn't be green?
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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