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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 142
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 142
Friday, February 2nd 1990
Today's Topics:
Re: Mysterious fireballs
face
Re: Skeptics
Re: Mysterious Fireballs
QM
Re: Mars Face
New Affiliate
Skeptics
Re: Thoughts for Bryon
Re: Mj-12,Lazar,Disinformation
Re: Replies
Re: Lazar and the Planet of the Sols
Current Affair Upcoming Expose (?)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!f20.n3607.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jerry.Woody
Subject: Re: Mysterious fireballs
Date: 1 Feb 90 02:00:00 GMT
->In followup to the Fireballs article, I wanted to relate an
Hello Michael;
Back in August of 1989 I filed a MUFON report of a fireball similar if not
identical to the fireball in your previous article. It was travelling at an
app. 95-100 degree angle and very low to the ground. It was white and green.
It was moving very slow [for a meteorite, if that is what it was] and upon
disinigration(?) red material was observed falling from it.. some of which
were "structured" (right angle pieces, straight pieces, etc.) and not
random. The object was also reported to a Birmingham radio station by
numerous people in that city. I don't know if any follow up was done or if
it was dismissed as a meteor.
Jerry.
--
Jerry Woody - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jerry.Woody@f20.n3607.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mailrus!uunet!crdos1.crd.ge.com!davidsen
Subject: face
Date: 1 Feb 90 17:34:00 GMT
When I start getting personal attacks I know I'm getting close to
finding that something is fishy. Several people claim to have seen
"unretouched photos" of the face. There is no such thing. The photos are
made by using a computer to convert the binary pixel values to grey
scales. The table lookup which does this controls what you can and can't
see in the "unretouched photo."
Many pictures have a translation bar on the side, which shows the
conversion used. In a linear conversion the bar is white on one end,
black on the other, and *linearly* increasing shades of grey from white
end to black end. The photo I saw did not have this bar.
When the pictures first became well known, someone had the actual
digitized data available for ftp. Unfortunately I didn't keep a copy
after I looked at it. If anyone has a copy of the data for either or
both pictures please let me know. The viewer only took me a few hours to
write, and I can do that again. When the translation table was adjusted
to have some values I saw a face (more or less). When the table was set
for linear translation I saw a pile of rock, or butte, or mesa, or
whatever.
If, by any chance, the translation bar does not go from light on one
end to dark at the other, but has a light-dark-light or vice-versa
sequence, then some of the light features are being made to look darker
than other features which reflect less light. This is not proof that
anyone is trying to fake something, but usually indicates that the photo
is not the same thing you would see with the naked eye in the same
place.
If I get a source for the raw data I'll say more, and I am writing to
the Mars Project to see if they can supply it, otherwise I've said what
I intended, and I must be right, since I am getting mail from some
people which says "we are not cooking the data" and others which says
"JPL is not doing a coverup." That must mean I'm in the middle.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!p0.f102.n268.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Paul.Faeder
Subject: Re: Skeptics
Date: 1 Feb 90 05:14:31 GMT
In an article of <28 Jan 90 18:18:29 GMT>, chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) writes:
>I'd like to hear how you respond to the leatest findings in the quantum
>theory area.
>
>In short, the experiment proved that one of the following is true:
>
>a. Either objective reality does not exist and it is meaningless for us
>to speak of things or objects as having any reality above and beyond the
>mind of the observer;
>
>b. or, faster-than-light communication with the future and the past is
>possible.
Can you elaborate on this? I have never heard of this, but then again I'm not a scientist.
--
Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@p0.f102.n268.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
Subject: Re: Mysterious Fireballs
Date: 1 Feb 90 17:37:00 GMT
In a message to Michael Corbin <01-31-90 19:00> Jerry Woody wrote:
> Back in August of 1989 I filed a MUFON report of a fireball
> similar if not identical to the fireball in your previous
> article. It was travelling at an app. 95-100 degree angle
> and very low to the ground. It was white and green.
I went back and re-read that article just posted on the fireball over the
Eastern coast and find that it appears to be strange, however I cannot find
where it might not indicate a meteorite. I must admit that what I saw that
December evening was unusual, however I am not an expert on meteorites. I
was hoping that someone here would be able to give us information as to why
meteorites and their colors might indicate something more unusual than just
a meteorite.
I noticed Jim Speiser's message about green fireballs, however as I recall
from the Project Twinkle material, LaPaz felt that green fireballs was just
not normal for a meteor.
Also, if these are meteorites, why are they becoming so prominent all of a
sudden? There have been literally scores of reports of these lately.s
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.)
Subject: QM
Date: 1 Feb 90 19:55:02 GMT
Gene: Thanks for the kind words. I would agree with virtually
everything you said in your message. However, I would like to
qualify your statement about the unknowability of ultimate
reality or reality separate from the observer. This is, of
course, a very controversial point among physicists, but the
consensus is that while reality may have a subjective and
indeterminate component, it is not wholly arbitrary. There
is really is "something" out there, even if different
observers perceive it differently. We don't create it in any
strong sense.
On the question of higher dimensions of space, most
modern theoretical work descends from Klein and Kaluza's
pre-war attempts to unify EM and gravity by assuming a warped
space in 5 or 6 dimensions to geometricize EM, in analogy to
Einstein's geometrization of Gravity in General Relativity.
More recent work with superstrings (distinct from Cosmic
strings) employs spaces of 10 or even 26 dimensions to
accomodate the Strong Nuclear force. some of these dimensions
are physical, but some appear to be merely mathematical
formalisms as I understand it. All but four of the physical
dimensions "compactified" while the four of our space-time
continuum expanded right after the Big Bang. Thus we live
in a space with 4 dimensions, either flat or curved slightly
negatively, and 6 or more curved strongly positively with a
radius of 10-33 cms (more or less). Hence the extra
dimensions are nearly unobservable and space appears
to have just the usual 4 dimensions (3 spatial and 1 temporal).
I know of one experiment to detect the side effects of
such extra dimensions that was negative.
I enjoyed "Gravitation" by Kip Thorne, A. A. Wheeler,
and Meisner. The heavy math is in boxes, so the text is readable.
I found "The Tao of Physics" rather unsatisifying--it seemed to
oversimplify both the physics and the philosophy and
trivialize both.
I find speculations like Sheldrake's Morphogenetic fields, and
Lyall Watson's Hundredth Monkey effect interesting SF, except that
similar ideas were described in the 40's and 50's. They are essentially
pseudoscience. Sheldrake's theories are weakly testable,
but have not been confirmed.
I have his book, but just can't seem to get into it;
in this respect it's rather like Jeremy Rifkin's "Algeny."
Neither the physical nor biological world seems to work his way,
though I suppose on could conceive of a universe where
Lamackian theories would hold (they do culturally).
The language learning tests ignore the fact that there
are lexical universals. It's been known for a long time that people
can guess new vocabularies better than chance. Turkish is just possibly
very distantly related to English by descent from a proto-language
called Nostratic. Silicon doesn't crystallize any faster despite the
ton quantities made in the semiconductor industry.
As for Watson, ther never was any effect to begin with.
Not only were the monkey colonies in contact, but no sudden behavioral
change was noted by the original Japanese investigators.
--john
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross)
Subject: Re: Mars Face
Date: 2 Feb 90 00:03:37 GMT
-+From: paranet!p0.f2.n1030.z9.FIDONET.ORG!John.Daly
-+Subject: Re: Mars Face
-+
-+ The Face on Mars.
-+ I saw the photos and read the book `The Face on Mars'.
-+ The author admitted that non-standard imaging techniques were used in
-+ the computer enhancement. This leads me to suspect that either the
-+ photos are forged, or that the imaging techniques were changed
-+ frequently until the feature looked as human as possible. A case of
-+ auto-suggestion in other words. Since NASA's standard techniques gave
-+ us such sharp pictures of tHe Martian surface, I cannot see why this
-+ standard technique was deviated from in this instance, if not to make
-+ the face more `face-like' and the pyramids more `pyramid-like'.
Okay, once more. John, the original photos are seen by the people at
JPL do not need enhancement to see the Face nor the pyramids. The
photos I have are taken from the Viking digital tape. The only computer
processing done was to convert the digital data into a photograph. The
hits acquired during transmission aren't even corrected for. I have
shown those photos around to a wide variety of people of all walks of
life and educational levels. Their responses are interesting because
they can't believe what they are seeing--a Face on Mars.
The "sharp pictures" bit is a bit of a red-herring. The camera system
used by Viking to photograph Mars was not one of the spy-quality high
resolution models. The photos are of a good quality. Even so, they
need some massaging and enhancement to bring out details. The people at
JPL and NASA (and other places that study the photos from space) use a
variety of computer enhancement techniques to bring out details. For
example, they use "false color imaging" to bring out details on some
planets. Does this mean that we can't trust the information obtained in
those images?
The standard technique that you refer to is not "standard" in the sense
that you seem to imply. The fact is that all of the photos that come
back from the various unmanned space missions must be processed and the
images enhanced by computer to clear them up. So to say non-standard as
if the Mars Project researchers were doing something to create these
images is both wrong and extremely misleading. And I can assure you
that if such was the case, Sagan, et al, would have publicized this a
long time ago, which would have ended the Mars Project.
Yet no charge has ever been raised by Sagan and others who resist the
Mars objects. Their arguments against the objects are founded more on
the grounds of the objects being the result of erosion and other
geological factors. But even these arguments are getting a bit thin and
thread bare.
The facts are, John, that until we get better data from Mars, we won't
have a real resolution to this matter. Such data may be forthcoming in
this decade. Time will tell.
-+ Later in the book, the author drifted into pure pseudo-science with
-+ references to absurdities like `harmonics of the speed of light' etc.
-+ I think we've been had on this one.
I grant you that this "harmonics of the speed of light" sounds a bit
odd, but I haven't read this book. But I will try to obtain a copy and
examine the context of this statement.
However, to judge the objects based on one man's book is a bit like
basing a judgement about elephants on the findings of six blind men.
The same holds true for anything that we research, study, or examine.
Enough for now, have a g'day, Mate,
Gene
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
Subject: New Affiliate
Date: 1 Feb 90 22:54:00 GMT
Please welcome a new ParaNet affiliate:
ParaNet ALPHA-ETA(sm)
Jerry Seward
Rochester, New York
716-436-2759
Jerry is involved with a group called The Rochester UFO Study
Group.
On behalf of the ParaNet family, welcome aboard! Please take a
moment and introduce yourself.
Michael Corbin
Administrator
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross)
Subject: Skeptics
Date: 2 Feb 90 02:18:45 GMT
-+From: paranet!f2.n1030.z9.FIDONET.ORG!John.Daly
-+Subject: Skeptomania is cool
-+
-+
-+ I am one of your skeptics, as I have frequently posted messages
-+ refuting the current Greenhouse and Ozone scares. In doing so, I am
-+ not removing your right to free speech, but simply asserting my own.
-+ I feel your approach is the totalitarian one where any fringe theory
-+ should be given full airing, but any skeptical responses should be
-+ suppressed. Free speech cuts both ways, freedom for you to
-+ pronounce any theory you like, and freedom fOr me to express
-+ skepticism about it. That's democracy - at least that's how we
-+ practice democracy here.
Let's see. This message comes from a person calling himself John Daly
and claims to come from Tasmania. Well, how do we know this. Maybe
this person isn't really named John Daly. Maybe this person doesn't
even exist. That's it, he's a figment of imagination. The byproduct of
marsh gas. ;-) 8-) 8-)
John, I don't disagree with maintaining a certain amount of skepticism.
But as I've already said, skepticism for skepticism's sake is garbage.
I doesn't take any great mental effort to treat new ideas, concepts,
hypotheses, etc., as if they are completely wrong and originated either
from the abuse of drugs or alcohol--or maybe sleep deprivation.
Why not, instead, look for the germ of truth? This in no way inhibits
your rights to free speech, does it? But it might make the environment
warmer for the cultivation of solutions.
As for the Greenhouse effect, I probably tend to share your view. The
current meterological models are not very good because our understanding
of weather and climate isn't very good. There can't be much doubt that
the so-called Greenhouse gases are increasing, but what that actually
means is still anybody's guess. Personally, I'd rather err, if I'm
going to err, on the side of caution and conservatism as reagards the
Greenhouse effect. Yet, I don't think we need Draconian measures, at
least not yet.
As for the ozone layer depletion, I think the case is a bit better here.
The data that I've seen seem to point to the fact that we have damaged
our ozone layer. The questions for me are how bad is the damage and for
how long will we have a problem? The amount of CFCs that have been
pumped out seems to be a staggering amount. And I also understand that
the CFC molecules aren't finished doing their nefarious job of mangling
the ozone layer. However, if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd
certainly be willing to look at it.
BTW, are you really John Daly? ;-) Real skeptics want to know. 8-)
The following is from a post by John Chalmers.
-+ The first paper also reported finding protons
-+ tritium or helium 3, helium 4, and probably Li in the gas.
-+
John, what does this suggest to you?
Regards,
Gene
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith
Subject: Re: Thoughts for Bryon
Date: 1 Feb 90 17:32:00 GMT
Good to hear from you again Gene, it's hard for me to get my messages on
time sometimes because they come through addressed for "ALL" and I must go
searching for them. Anytime a message comes in from one of the other
FidoNet nodes it usually has my own name on it and I am able to get it as
soon as I log onto the system. I wanted you to know that I had not gotten
your message until just now, but am very interested in what you have to say.
in> From: Gene Gross <gross@dg-rtp.dg.com-+
in> What information would you like on Melchizedek, Bryon?
in> Maybe I can give
in> you some information that you don't already have.
I am trying to gather any information that might help indicate that we have
had alien visitors even thousands of years ago, and I believe them to be
here yet today.
Any information you can get me that might help my research would be
greatly appreciated.
Melchizedek came out of "no where" and vanished back into "no where." Is
this just because no one was able to keep track of him and make records of
it, or is it because he didn't come from the Earth in the first place ?
What information can we come up with that might help us better understand
this situation.
I would expect you would enjoy some of the messages now going through the ET
echo as several others have joined in and are helping me find information
that I am needing.
If I addressed this message to you at the header would it come though ok to
you on your end ? Or am I better off to do it this way ?
in> Bryon, have you looked into ooparts? (ooparts==out of
in> place artifacts)
in> There are a rather large number of these ooparts that I
in> would think that
in> you could begin to draw some tentative conclusions. Also,
in> what about
in> the legends concerning ancient flying machines powered by
in> mercury?
Bill Clendenon of Biloxi, MS has done a massive amount of research into the
design of the mercury saucer. He has a foot locker full of plans and
information and has spent his entire life trying to find the answers to just
that question. He believes he has a working plan but does not have anyone
who can put it together for him. I have his address and phone number if you
would like it. He says it will work, and that the symbols of the "snakes"
and the "wings" that are used today as a medical symbol were actually the
symbol of flight. Snakes meaning that coils of mercury (which is poison)
were used in the design of the craft that flew (as such the wings are on the
symbol to indicate flight).
in> There are a number of legends that seem to speak of a very
in> advanced
in> earth race in the distant past. Could this be the start of
in> a search for
in> alien activity on earth, or evidence that this isn't the
I was sent some information concerning this by Don Allen.
It appears to me there is a great deal of history that was lost
along those lines, but there is more there that needs to be dug
up and looked into.
...Bryon
--
Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith
Subject: Re: Mj-12,Lazar,Disinformation
Date: 1 Feb 90 17:46:00 GMT
In a message to All <01-24-90 23:05> David Blaker wrote:
DB> Is all of the information from the above mentioned people a
DB> GREAT disinformation project? A lot of questions and no definite
DB> answers.
DB> It would really be a shame if we accepted or ignored to
DB> willingly somthing that might or might not be of great inportance to
DB> the UFO research community.
DB> Maybe this is what the government wants,
DB> diversion,distraction,and confusion taking the attention off the truth.
DB> Or maybe what the human mind won't accept the POSSIBLE TRUTH.
DB> Hopefully time will procure the truth.
DB> ALL COMMENTS WELCOMED!!!!!
Sorry for taking so long to get around to reading in this message base, I am
way behind.
Perhaps you have come across something that is good to have pointed out.
You state things which I recoginze as facts, it is a fact that we have more
questions than answers, and are staying busy following false leads for the
most part.
The fact these things are taking place indicates there is something the
government is trying to cover up. The fact they regard it as above top
secret indicates they have something to "hot to handle" what ever that might
be. Perhaps they aren't really sure what they got their hands on, but have
just enough to know it's dangerous and beyond their ability to control.
Who is to say what might happen if they should open up the files on these
beings and tell the world what they know ? What would the aliens do ?
...Bryon
--
Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith
Subject: Re: Replies
Date: 1 Feb 90 18:10:00 GMT
In a message to All <01-25-90 19:18> infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com wrote:
Again, late in getting the mail...
in> From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.)
in> Bryon: Can you send me references to large human skeletons?
I can try John. Our library here in Fort Smith is not what I would need to
track down all the references.
In (I believe) Ungers Bible Dict. page 419 it states that "Skeletons
recovered in Palestine attest the fact that men as tall as Goliath once
lived in that general reagon." Their conservative hight for Goliath was
"over nine feet tall." Their references listed at the bottom of that
section are as follows.
Edward Young, Introduction to the O.T., 1949
S.R. Driver, Notes on the Hebrew text of the Books of Samuel, Oxford 1913
International Critical Commentary in.loc.
Of course our conversation on this subject has been moved to the ET echo
which I am not sure if you get it or not.
Also, the messages do not get to me from here as well because they
are not addressed to me via the system mailer. Sorry for being so
long in getting around to these messages, I am certainly interested
in your findings and information.
If you find anything in regards to their references please let me know.
Thank you.
...Bryon
--
Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith
Subject: Re: Lazar and the Planet of the Sols
Date: 2 Feb 90 01:21:00 GMT
In a message to All <01-27-90 23:17> George Lucas wrote:
GL> There are at least two places on Earth where there are
GL> Sols.
GL>
GL> Greeting a visitor entering the semi-circular driveway of
GL> John Lear's Las Vegas house is a frontispiece ornately
GL> embedded with "Palacio del Sol."
GL>
George, I am a little bit surprised that someone did not leave you a reply
before now concerning your message.
GL> And, from Robert Lazar's mouth comes "Sol 3," a term he
GL> says he read in briefing papers at S-4, the alleged UFO
GL> section of the Nevada Test Site. "Sol 3" is supposed to
GL> refer to Earth since Earth is the third planet from the
GL> Sun, just as the alien's home planet is called Reticulum 4
GL> because it is the fourth planet from the Binary-star
GL> system, Zeta Reticuli II.
It appears you have done some research in the field of UFOs & ET.s.
Please forgive me, but your name, along with the "Close Encounter" scenario
brings a few questions to my mind.
Could you tell us a little bit about yourself and what has brought you into
this field of research ?
Thank you.
...Bryon
--
Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jeff.Ballard
Subject: Current Affair Upcoming Expose (?)
Date: 2 Feb 90 01:22:00 GMT
Well, we will soon all have the answer to the UFO
phenomenon. PARANET can close up shop and all the
investigators can find new hobbies. Why? Maury Pauvich is
TIRED of UFO stories, and he will be getting to the bottom
of it all next Tuesday (February 6th) on his program Current
Affair. I am holding my breath in expectation!
One good point, on tonight's (2-1) coverage of sightings in
West Virginia and the possible connection to the Braxton
County monster of long ago, at least the CA team used clips
from more current Sci-Fi movies (in color) to illustrate the
UFO portion of the story. The monster part was still
represented by Lon Chaney, Jr.'s werewolf (black & white,
but of course that is an old legend).BJB ;)
Perhaps someone in the UFO community could offer Maury some assistance
with his story...Mike, Don, Jim??
--
Jeff Ballard - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jeff.Ballard@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************
