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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 136
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 136
Friday, January 26th 1990
Today's Topics:
face
Skeptomania is cool
Replies
Cow mutilations
Re: Mars Face
Re the face on Mars discussion...
STONE REJECTED
Re: Lazar/Area51
The Nullabor
face
Skeptomania is cool
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: davidsen@crdos1.crd.ge.com
Subject: face
Date: 25 Jan 90 20:30:55 GMT
What many people don't realize is that the "face" is only visible with
some heavy image processing, and that to the unaided eye (were there one
on Mars) it would look like a rockpile.
If you take an high altitude photo of the Rockies (even out of the
window of a commercial plane) and digitize it, and play with it, you can
find all sorts of things. It's like looking a clouds and seeing what
they look like. I can show you a part of the Rockies which, if you
expand contrast so that anything darker than N is black, and lighter
than M is white, and spread 128 grey scales unevenly across the N..M
scale which both look like dark grey to the eye... under those
conditions you can clearly see a giant hand with the middle finger
upright.
I have also seen demos of doing image processing on data from the
voltage variations on a wall socket, and getting a good picture of a
Dalmation. You can over process raw noise and think you see things.
I *am not* claiming that this disproves the Mars face as an artifact.
Just that we have the processing power to make a silk purse of a sow's
ear, and we shouldn't start thinking "coverup" when scientists saw
"unproven and unlikely." When people go to Mars and find tool marks (or
grafitti) I'll believe. Until then I will suggest more investigation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: keith@raptor.cray.com (Keith A. Fredericks)
Subject: Skeptomania is cool
Date: 25 Jan 90 20:31:51 GMT
Many of the skeptics are just trying to protect us all from the
evils THEY see... sort of like a team of rabid consumer advocates...sort of
like the Spanish Inquisition.
A basic tenet with skeptics and others is that skepticism is healthy.
I have to take issue with this type of logic. This, I believe
stems from the (paranoid) belief that everyone is out to get you. Theories
become guilty until proven innocent. And you assume that everyone is lying
to you. You make up a list of ideas that are GOOD and a list of ideas that
are BAD. So, if you march lock-step with the skeptic party line, then
everything will be okay for you. If you speak out with ideas from the BAD
list, you will be raked over the coals, but good.
It might actually be more accurate to characterize skepticism as a disease.
And it certainly is more aligned with elitism and totalitarianism than it
is with the ideas of freedom and democracy.
Scientists should be free (and indeed encouraged) to investigate whatever
strikes their fancy. Didn't we learn this lesson already with
Galileo and the church? Nope. They actually burned Reich's books in the
late fifties and sentenced him to prison where he died...in America!
We have had our collective creativity stifled long enough by this
brutal abomination masquerading as healthful in the name of good science.
My vote is for information to flow freely, and for theories and
experimental data to be evaluated impartially, without applying any mandatory
skeptic-sanctioned filters. Let's stop wasting time and get some real
work done!
--
Keith Fredericks, Cray Research Inc., 1440 Northland Dr. Mendota Hgts., MN 55120
keith@cray.com (612)681-3258
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.)
Subject: Replies
Date: 25 Jan 90 23:55:51 GMT
If anybody has a biblography of ooparts, I'd appreciate a copy.
The alleged ooparts I've seen at the Institute for Creation
Research were all embedded in sand/lime concretions such as
"beach rock," which is known to form quickly (years to decades).
The fact that such secondary "rock" can form in the cracks and
voids in exposed rock of eearlier geologic eras in no implies
that they were contemporaneous. The famous "batteries" of
Hellenistic or early Roman age that were found in the Near
East are very interesting, but certainly mundane. The Pillar
of Iron and the other wonders of Von Daniken and other
popular sources don't seem to be very oop to me.
Bryon: Can you send me references to large human skeletons? I'm
very dubious that humans of normal proportions can grow as tall
as 10 feet without severe mobility problems and probably pituitary
tumors as well. Because of the "square-cube law," a 5 foot high
human weighing 100 lbs would become a 10 footer weighing 800 lbs
if all the dimensions were doubled to keep the proportions the
same. Frankly, 7 foot East Africans would appear gigantic to ancient
mediterraneans as even under the later Roman empire, the average
soldier was about 5'6" based on skeletal remains. Much of the
difference in stature is nutritional; postwar Japanese average
several inches taller than their parents because of dietary changes,
chiefly more protein.
Truly giant humanoids would have to have quite different
proportions from normal humans. Whether such races would still be
human is another question. Interbreeding might be a problem mechanically
if the fetal size were proportionally larger.
Martian Ventifacts: The shape of a wind-sculpted object will depend
both on the direction and speed of the local winds and the resistance
of the material to wind erosion. Roughly five side-objects could be
formed naturally, and pyramids with pentagonal bases would exhibit
relations involving the "Golden Ratio," and the square root of 5 by
mathematical necessity. How good are the approximations to e and
pi? Both are near 3 (e=2.71828, pi=3.14159).
The height and therefore the slope of the sides is related to
the strength of the material. Depending upon the strength of the rocks,
the slope and height might have some surprising mathematical relation
to the base and other dimensions of the "pyramid".
Eqyptian pyramids provide a fairly accurate approximation to
both pi and the Golden Ratio (phi or tau) (the roughness of
the Great Pyramid makes it impossible to tell which if either
was meant as the slope angle is near 52 in both cases).
However, there is evidence from a collapsed and a "bent" pyramid
that the slopes were derived empirically and that the
surprising mathematical relations may be quite accidental.
The later Eqyptians were aware of the pi relation as
Herodotus reports that the pyramids were constructed to exhibit
it, but Herotodus was a greek writing about 2000 years after the
Great Pyramid was built and both Egytptian and Greek mathematics
had developed greatly in the interim.
My skepticism about earlier civilized human races is partly
because of a lack of archeological traces of ancient industries,
mining, oil drilling etc. A civilization which could build UFOs
time machines, etc. would have had a to have a fairly large population
and to have had some industrial infrstructure and some history.
Where's the evidence?
Most anthropologists believe that preliterate cultures
remember events for only a few centuries at most before they
become lost or unrecognziable. There is evidence that the African
geneologies in Arthur Haley's "Roots" were mostly made up to please him.
There is an account of a a great black bird with white wings from which
strange humanoid creatures emerged in the legends of the Amerinds of the Pacific
Northwest, whose material culture was very sophisticated. This
event has been identified as a visit by a Drake in a sailing ship a
generation or so back, but it had already become mythologized.
I suppose aliens could have taught a a few thousand savages
all the skills they need, helped them mine just the ore required,
etc, but that's begging the question about prior human civilizations.
Sagan and Skhlovskii have speculated in "The Cosmic Connection,"
that the Sumerian myth of Oannes, the fish-like "animal with reason"
who emerged from the Persian Gulf and taught the Sumerians to write
is the best historical account of an ET contact and cultural exchange.
Sumerian iconography is full of strange creatures, constellations, etc.
--John
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: s30735p@taltta.hut.fi (Jyrki Jouko Juhani Kasvi)
Subject: Cow mutilations
Date: 26 Jan 90 10:26:09 GMT
These incidents remind me of old Finnish folklore
concerning 'trulls', the evil witches who came to
cut pieces of your cows (pieces of skin and the
milking apparatus). The witches used these pieces
to make their own cattle milk better.
These trulls were especially active around Easter
and for example my parents have witnessed cows
mutilated this way when they were young. In some
areas it was customary to guard your cattle through
Easter nights.
Do any other people have similar folklore?
Yours, JJJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross)
Subject: Re: Mars Face
Date: 26 Jan 90 16:20:08 GMT
>From: mailrus!wuarchive!texbell!swarren@convex (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re the face on Mars discussion...
Date: 23 Jan 90 15:53:34 GMT
-+
-+ Don't be too quick to assume that geometric forms and mathematical ratios
-+ are evidence of intelligent intervention. There are a myriad of mathematical
-+ relationships built into the structure and physical laws of the universe.
-+ Often the normal interplay of natural forces and matter can give rise to
-+ fairly complex structures. Specifically, lava flows can sometimes
-+ crystalize into a series of huge hexagonal columns that at first glance
-+ might appear to be the work of some prehistoric architect. There are
-+ many other examples.
-+
-+ This is an interesting subject. But make sure you eliminate the mundane
-+ explanations before resorting to the bizarre ;^).
Steve:
I grant you that mathematical ratios and geometrical forms are not
evidence of intelligent intervention. The mathematical relationships
found in naturally occurring structures are also granted (subatomic
world notwithstanding). The information I posted was not of my own
doing. It came from a conference held sometime back for NASA scientists
and engineers. They were evidently impressed by it, since there seems
to be bit more cooperation from NASA.
I would not be adamant in stating that the objects found are of
artificial origin. Nor would I be adamant in stating that they aren't.
However, I must point out that the Face appears in two of the
photos--one taken close to sunset (the first photo of the Face to be
seen) and the second taken with the sun higher in the Martian sky. With
a little computer wizardry, it wasn't hard to combine the two photos to
produce a computer generated 3-D series of photos. The object is
clearly bisymmetrical. The "hairline" appears on both sides of the Face
equally. The eyes appear to be quite detailed showing the ball and
pupil of each eye in detail. If you haven't obtained photos of the
Face, I highly recommend that you contact the Mars Project and order
copies. You can contact them at:
Society for the Study of Native Arts and Sciences
The Mars Project
2319 Grant Street, #2
Berkeley, CA 94703
Again, if these are objects, especially the Face, are the results of
some geologic activity, it is something that we have not seen before.
Now I wouldn't be at all surprised if this were indeed the case
considering how little we really do know about the universe. But if
these objects are the result of intelligent design and construction,
then we are all going to have to rethink our sciences and
philosophies--religions included. Shoot, this will be the case if we
can ever prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that UFOs are of
extraterrestrial origin and have been visiting this planet for ages.
But as I recently noted in a post, I will endeavor to keep my personal
thoughts out of any future posts on the Face and related objects. I
would rather the discussion be about them and not my particular
viewpoint. Just to be sure that my bias is well noted, I'm tending to
lean toward the artificial origin for most of these objects simply
because the current evidence seems to lean in that direction.
Let me close with a quote that seems to apply to the research in these
fields (UFOs and the Martian objects):
"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever
remains, however improbable, must be...the truth."
Sherlock Holmes (a.k.a. Conan Doyle)
Maybe the researchers will soon eliminate many of the impossibles so we
can get down to the improbables. ;-)
Gene
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ZAK@cu.nih.gov
Subject: STONE REJECTED
Date: 26 Jan 90 18:20:46 GMT
>From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith
-+ ... When talking about Christ the bible makes mention of several
-+ things that related to a structure of some kind, that structue had a "Chief
-+ Corner Stone" and they said the stone that had been rejected by the builders
-+ had become the "Chief of the Corner," if this is true then they are talking
-+ about a pyramid type structure and the "top" stone that was said to have
-+ shone like the sun...
For another interpretation of this "stone rejected by the builders," see
*Holy Blood, Holy Grail,* by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!p0.f0.n1032.z9.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Chapman
Subject: Re: Lazar/Area51
Date: 24 Jan 90 02:40:00 GMT
Byron,
This message was initiated by a script gone wild in Telix 3.12, the Sysop
was notified and I had asked for it's deletion as I realised it might be
sent halfway around the world causing hassles - so it appears it was!!
Anyhow I am an extremely enthusiastic follower of the ParaNet UFO & ET
echoes and I wait with bated breath for all new info coming forth on the
Lazar / Lear topics. As an Amatuer Astronomer (and a Laboratory Scientist)
I find staring at the night skies thru a 'scope an absolutely stimulating
experience full of incredible majesty, wonder and exitement.
I've followed the abduction subject closely thru the paperbacks - eg: The
Andreasson Affair, Missing Time, Intruders, Communion etc, etc.
Furthermore books such as Above Top Secret and several others including
works of Jenny Randles have convinced me of the PHYSICAL reality of the UFO
(as well as having one experience myself with sighting of two objects in the
night sky which were obviosly not from around here!).
By the way "ASTRONOMY" mag 12/1974 contains an excellent analysis of the
Betty Hill, Zeta Reticuli Star Map from the scientific point of view and
it's cetainly not an anti Fish interpretation, in my opinion!
I'm enjoying this echo tremendously. Talk later....
Michael
--
Michael Chapman - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Chapman@p0.f0.n1032.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!f0.n1030.z9.FIDONET.ORG!Bob.Fletcher
Subject: The Nullabor
Date: 27 Jan 90 06:31:00 GMT
Hi Vlad:
Nice to be chatting to you at last through ParaNet. I would
like to bring your attention to the file OZTRAIN.AUS uploaded to my
system by David Galea. You will see that it refers to a sighting
near Zanthus in WA. There is a comment that three trains many
kilometres apart reported the same thing at the same time that beong
21:00 hrs WST.
I now refer to UFORA89055 where the Hennessy's reported a UFO at 22:30
hrs CST. I note that in September the nation is on standard time and
that CST it 1 1/2 hrs ahead of WST. That makes the Hennesey's report
occur at the same time as the Train Drivers. It would also put the
distance very much greater over 100s of kilometres. As the railway
official said,"Whats going on".
Have you any update on these reports.
Bob.....
--
Bob Fletcher - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bob.Fletcher@f0.n1030.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: face
Date: 26 Jan 90 06:43:00 GMT
> What many people don't realize is that the "face" is only
> visible with
> some heavy image processing, and that to the unaided eye (were
> there one
> on Mars) it would look like a rockpile.
Are you saying that the image we see in the original Viking frames is
not just computer-enhanced, but computer-modified somehow? That if I
myself were in orbit around Mars at that altitude, that I would not see
the "face" except as a rockpile? Somehow, I don't think you've got that
quite right. I've read tons of skeptical, and some quite cynical,
arguments against the Face, but no one has ever mentioned that. If that
were true, I'd be ready to abandon all defense of the Face as an
anomaly.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Skeptomania is cool
Date: 26 Jan 90 07:08:00 GMT
>
> Many of the skeptics are just trying to protect us all from the
> evils THEY see... sort of like a team of rabid consumer
> advocates...sort of
> like the Spanish Inquisition.
Ah, Keith, Keith, Keith. So much of what you say contains kernels of
truth, and is obviously inspired by a real thirst for knowledge. But you
are painting with a very broad brush. Skepticism, in its purest form, is
very desirable, even for those of us interested in exploring the fringes
of science. It should not be a hindrance to that exploration, but rather
a very useful tool. We NEED skepticism, to keep ourselves in balance.
And yes, we need SKEPTICS. Without them, how could we judge how well we
are doing? Without skepticism, how are we to judge the veracity of our
own arguments?
SOME skeptics, not many, but some, take things too far. They exhibit a
very complacent, self-satisfied smugness that irks the HELL out of me.
When I engage these types in conversation about UFOs, it usually turns
out that their smugness is largely due to an almost incredible ignorance
of the main issues. These I have learned to ignore (and pity).
A true skeptic does NOT assume you are lying. He is simply satisfied
that the universe possesses a logical order, that that order manifests
itself in the form of empirical evidence, and that he is under no
obligation to commit himself to believing anything unless empirical
evidence exists in its favor. This is not DISbelief (negative belief, as
in the belief that you are lying), it is simply NONbelief, or a
withholding of belief until further notice. Sometimes, as in my own
case, this neutrality is accompanied by overwhelming curiosity, which
impels one to join in the fray and search for clues. Often,
however, it is a frustratingly dispassionate neutrality, exemplified by
those who say, "Alright, its unidentified. So what?" or, "I'm a
scientist. I deal in demonstrable, established truths." (This last can
actually be seen in a thread on the Infinity BBS in Atlanta. Couldn't
believe my eyes when I read it.)
In closing, let me tell you what led to my advocacy of UFO research. It
wasn't a personal sighting, I've seen absolutely nothing. It wasn't
Keyhoe, or Hynek, or Hopkins, or Strieber. It wasn't the MJ-12
documents, or Aquarius, or this Lazar situation. It wasn't any speech at
any UFO conference, it wasn't a photograph, it wasn't even the Hudson
Valley case.
It was a book by Phil Klass - the world's foremost UFO debunker.
See why we need skeptics?
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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