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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 089
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 89
Tuesday, November 28th 1989
Today's Topics:
It's happening again
Re: Bill Cooper's lecture in L.A.
Re: Bill Cooper's Lecture In L.a.
Re: Pu/wolf 424
Re: Bill Cooper
Re: Oz Effect
Re: Hoagland Predictions
Re: A Current Affair 11/17/89
Re: Cooper, Cooper, Cooper
Re: A Current Affair 11/17/89
Re: Project Blue Book - Aka A Govt Coverup
Re: Info-paranet Newsletter
Re: Info-paranet Newsletter
Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos
Re: The Secret Govt..
Re: Don Sudduth - The non-physical reality of UFOs
Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos
Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos
Reply to Mike Corbin
Hmmm...
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From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Torson
Subject: It's happening again
Date: 26 Nov 89 21:05:00 GMT
Some time ago, Bill Cooper appeared on the scene. He started by saying
some fascinating things that sounded like they just might be true.
However, most of his statements were (and still are) unsubstantiated.
Before long, his claims became more and more absurd. Also, he started
making personal attacks on people rather than discussing the subject at
hand. The net result was a large disruption in the exchange of
information and ideas. A similar thing happened with John Lear.
Now, it seems to be happening all over again, this time with T.S.
Bennett. Some of his early messages seemed to make some sense and to
be based on a reasonable understanding of science and technology.
Bennett has made the valid criticism that some of the files and
messages merely repeat and embellish unsubstantiated information.
However, he is now doing exactly the same thing! Some of his recent
statements are clearly false. Others are dubious at best. When asked
to provide substantiation, Bennett has often failed to give an adequate
response. His statements continue to become more and more absurd.
And, he has recently begun making personal attacks on people. Does all
this sound familiar?
I have noticed that Bennett has been relatively quite the ParaNet
echo. He has been more active (and more absurd) on the UFONET echo.
And, he has been the most absurd and abrasive on the Fido echo.
Perhaps he is tailoring his comments according to the level of
absurdity that he expects will be tolerated on the different echoes.
Why is this happening? I don't know. However, I would suggest that we
stop wasting time and effort trying to respond to Bennett when he
makes ridiculous statements.
--
Jim Torson - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Torson@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio
Subject: Re: Bill Cooper's lecture in L.A.
Date: 27 Nov 89 17:54:00 GMT
Ha ha..... oh sorry about that, I was just thinking about how we set up
the soviets in power....
Poor Cooper. Bill has taken a turn for the worse I fear. My biggest
gripe with that guy is NOT that he is taking extreme points of view.
In many ways that is healthy. My gripe is that he is attempting
personal gain and always promising "more later" and later never seems
to come as doesn't "more".
Marc
--
Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio
Subject: Re: Bill Cooper's Lecture In L.a.
Date: 27 Nov 89 17:56:00 GMT
Tell me about it. How anyone with such "credentials
" can distort a basic tenet of astrophysics is sinful.
Why plutonium anyway? There are many more powerful methods for doing a
similar thing!
--
Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio
Subject: Re: Pu/wolf 424
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:04:00 GMT
Bryon
Note that the "fan" image was an artifact of the method used in
sweeping the sky. Many other galaxies are still to be found. Also,
lacking in the 3-d image is a GOOD 3d scale to illustrate that actual
depth to which each point is mapped. One thing though: the image DOES
illustrate a very important feature of galactic cluster structure:
clumping/stringing. Note that many of the galactic features appear
clumped together (features as in individual galaxies) and that they
also appear as if they are arranged in strings. (NOT the same thing as
comsic strings etc...thats another story). I found the map quite
intriguing for these reasons. Many people also find that this image
causes them to feel very small like you felt upon seeing it. To know
that we were just one small insignificant dot in the array....
Not to worry though, we can still get lost in our own solar system!
Nevermind the galaxy!
Marc
--
Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio
Subject: Re: Bill Cooper
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:17:00 GMT
Jim
Interesting thoughts on Cooper. I think Cooper is a self seeking
individual to the extent that he has come to BELIEVE those things that
are part fiction and part reality. The fictional items are those that
he (and only he knows) has added to the facts as WE already know them.
He has always seemed obsessed with being "the contact", "the one in the
know", "the martyr". Such a complex is self destructive but the martyr
HAS to believe what he/she is saying. I think Bill believes it and thus
his sincerity was GENUINE. I think many of his facts, especially those
that many here at Paranet have shown to be obvious fabrications, are
inexorably tied up with the realities of what he knows to be of any use
at all. However, being the eternal optimist, I await more
evidence.....!
Marc
--
Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio
Subject: Re: Oz Effect
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:19:00 GMT
Bob
Very nice insights into temporal lobe epilepsy! I am glad you mentioned
what you did. I was concerned that Whitely Streiber might have such an
affliction although he tries to counter this publicly. I have not
judged him at all, just remained cautiously open...
Marc
--
Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio
Subject: Re: Hoagland Predictions
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:21:00 GMT
Jim
I told him before the Neptune encounter that what he was saying was
nothing we didnt know already! I have gone over that document and I
cant in good faith argue with him because so much is being withheld as
an ace in the hole by him! Agree?
--
Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio
Subject: Re: A Current Affair 11/17/89
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:22:00 GMT
I would be interested in how one goes about and gets an "enhancement"
done of tapes/photos?
--
Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio
Subject: Re: Cooper, Cooper, Cooper
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:24:00 GMT
Bryon
That "force" that you mention Cooper is driven by seems to be MONEY. I
live too far away to dive into his personal life, but you may wish to
to settle the matter once and for all. Get someone to pry. [hideous
laugh]
--
Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio
Subject: Re: A Current Affair 11/17/89
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:26:00 GMT
Note that the position of the light in the background is very important
since this does much to distort the effect in the window. We used to
call this in magic, a shadowbox illusion. Much can be done with this
effect and by tipping one's head closer to the light source, the head
grows dis-proportionally larger than the body. Someone has GOT to get a
layout of the that room.
--
Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio
Subject: Re: Project Blue Book - Aka A Govt Coverup
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:31:00 GMT
James
Unfortunately you fall into this GRAY area category (no pun intended).
If you cannot talk, then dont even bother to say "ive got a secret, ive
got a secret...." It does NOTHING to assist investigations and all it
does is antagonize people. I sympathize with you of course, but wonder
how much you could give to the science. I expect you wish you could
give a LOT more but know that you cannot. To that end I suppose it is
rather frustrating to you to have to remain somewhat silent, but to
say you know more than you can tell sounds Bill Cooperish (sorry, I
know that is a BAD analogy!). Anyway, Im glad you share what you do,
but hope you will share more someday.
See you
Marc
--
Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio
Subject: Re: Info-paranet Newsletter
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:32:00 GMT
Interesting note Jim: How many prime time news programs have featured
UFO related topics lately? Does this compare with any other time in
recent history (last 10 years) when UFO's dominated the press for a
time? Just curious...
--
Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!Clark.Matthews
Subject: Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos
Date: 28 Nov 89 00:44:00 GMT
> In his book "Dimensions", Dr. Vallee strongly emphasizes
> the
> psychological nature of UFO encounters. His research has
> shown that
> historically, UFO encounters have been perceived to be the
> common
> myths of the time period such as the miracle at Fatima,
> Portugal in
> 1917. "The events at Fatima involve luminous spheres,
> lights with
> strange colors, a feeling of 'heat waves'--all physical
> characteristics commonly associated with UFOs...They also
> encompass
> prophecy and a loss of ordinary consciousness on the part
> of
> witnesses--what we have called the psychic component of UFO
> sightings" (p 174). Dr. Vallee even implies that much of
> human
> history may have been shaped by the psychological effects
> of UFO
> encounters and that the shape may have a purpose.
Don, interesting that you should comment on "Dimensions" -- I've been
reading it myself and it has given me pause, too.
But it is worth noting that Valee draws striking parallels between UFO
abductions and CEIIIs and the literature and folklore of creatures like
sylphs, nymphs, trolls, dwarves, leprechauns, etc. Let me pause here so
readers can consider this. UFOs = leprechauns, trolls, sylphs, etc. ...
OK, now that the laughter has subsided, let me (in fairness to Dr. Vallee)
write that he makes his case admirably and persuasively. By quoting
contemporary accounts from Paracelsus, Rev. Kirk of Scotland, and others,
Vallee DOES point out striking parallels for modern researchers to ponder.
But where does this leave us? How the heck do we approach the public (at
least the public that doesn't read the National Enquirer) with news like
this? Vallee admits the problem and says, rightly or wrongly, it has been
ignored by every major modern researcher.
But so what!? What if there is a parallel reality and these things stem
from it? They seem to be made of material -- propelled and guided somehow
-- and, yes, they do seem to be somewhat vulnerable to the elements and to
weapons. In other words, whether they come from Zeta II Reticuli, Tau Ceti,
Atlantis, Alfenheim -- and whether they're full of aliens, Atlanteans or
Niebelungs -- there is still a physical reality that should be foremost in
our minds.
After all, the people we're trying to persuade probably won't believe it at
this point until one of the things dents their BMW. (Or they find it in
their lunch at the 21 Club.)
So, with due respect to Dr. Vallee -- and God knows he deserves respect -- I
must say "this way lies madness". Even if we suspect that it *might* not...
Best,
Clark
PS -- Know where I could find a copy of Messengers of Deception?
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: The Secret Govt..
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:45:00 GMT
True, the beast is *possible* now but it would take tremendous
resources and a whole lot of people to actually implement. If you
follow any of the stories about the large scale systems that the US gvt
has tried to implement for DOD, IRS, Treasury, etc, etc, you get a feel
for how difficult it is to do. Some have had millions and millions
invested and still don't work and that is with everyone "on board" and
trying to make it work. Can you imagine how hard it would be to do it
surreptitiously? Sure, NSA can do the intercepts and compile the
collected data but that is far different then having online access AND
the ability to go back in and change the data to wipe someone out.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Don Sudduth - The non-physical reality of UFOs
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:50:00 GMT
Actually, this is in reference to Don Sudduth's file where he says
"to ignore these reports (abduction) is to ignore the vast amount of
evidence".
What evidnece is he refering to???????? The only 'evidence' is the
reports. There is virtually nothing in the way of evidence.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Don.Sudduth
Subject: Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos
Date: 28 Nov 89 04:07:00 GMT
Sorry Jim, you're correct! What I meant to say is 'To ignore these
reports is to ignore the vast amount of testimony' not 'evidence'.
--
Don Sudduth - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Don.Sudduth@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Don.Sudduth
Subject: Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos
Date: 28 Nov 89 04:15:00 GMT
Thanks for the reply, Clark. Its good you brought up Vallee's research
on the connection between UFOs and nymphs, elves, etc. You argue for
the reality behind the myth. I just wanted to suggest (thru Dr.
Vallee) that, perhaps, the reality IS the myth; i.e., we are only
seeing (hearing, feeling) what someone else wants us to see and that
what we think is reality (such as flying saucers) is really illusion.
Do you think this may be possible??
Sincerely,
Don Sudduth
--
Don Sudduth - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Don.Sudduth@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: taos!uucp
Subject: Reply to Mike Corbin
Date: 28 Nov 89 02:47:24 GMT
Mike: Based on what I have read on ParaNet, I can't take Lazar's physics very
seriously. I suspect that a professional physicist would feel that I am
understating the situation. I'm a biologist, not a quantum mechanic so most of
what I know is from secondary sources like textbooks, Scientific American, New
Scientist, The Sciences, or Stephen Hawking's recent best seller. Physics isn't
my specialty, but I'll try to answer your questions.
Now if somebody were to offer me a piece of purported alien tissue or a culture
of an ET microbe, I think I'd know how to authenticate it or how to find people
who could.
Elements decay by three principal routes, alpha emission, spontaneous fission
and beta decay. The three controlling forces, the Electromagnetic,the Strong
Nuclear and the Weak Nuclear, are well understood with theory agreeing with
experiment to nine or ten decimal places in many cases. The computational
magnitude of systems as complex as heavy elements precludes exact calculations
even on supercomputers, but the best approximations suggest that elements of
atomic number around 114 are more stable than any nearby because the nucleons
(protons and neutrons) form closed or nearly closed shells. This phenomenon is
analogous to the chemical inertness of helium, neon and argon because their
electrons form closed shells (outside the nucleus) and there is little tendency
to arrange them in other configurations so that they could form bonds to other
atoms and make compounds.
However, this stability is not absolute and atoms decay spontaneously with
half-lives (the time for 50% to change) ranging from more than 10 to the 33
years for Hydrogen to about 10-23 seconds for some extremely short lived
isotopes decaying by the Strong Force. Elements with half lives of weeks or
months can be isolated in weighable amounts though doing so is difficult and
dangerous, but isotopes with shorter half-lives can only be identified by their
radioactive decay products. Only a few atoms of Element 109 have been made so
far, but the energies of the alpha particles emitted along its decay chain made
identification unambiguous. It's half-life is somewhere between a millisecond
and a microsecond.
Elements 110 and 111 are expected to be even less stable, so experimenters hope
to jump into the Stability region where half-lives are calculated to be longer.
Longer might mean 10-6 seconds or it might mean minutes or seconds. I don't
know what the latest predictions are.
The only way we have to make such heavy nuclei is accelerate atoms of medium
weight elements such as calcium, carbon, etc. and smash them into heavy atoms
such as uranium. It takes a lot of energy to overcome the electromagnetic
repulsion to get the nuclei close enough so that the very short range (10-13 cm)
Strong Force can bind the compound nucleus together. If the atoms have too
little energy, they won't fuse, but if they have too much, they won't stay
together. The new nucleus is only marginally stable at best and will fission
if it has too much energy. Another problem is that the new nucleus may not have
enough neutrons to be stable. If so, it will undergo beta decay as well.
If any elements around 114 or higher can be made they will be important
confirmation of the standard model. They will also have interesting chemistry
since they will have more electrons than any know elements and some of these
electrons will be in g orbitals with somewhat different properties from those in
d and f orbitals.
Tachyons are hypothetical particles with negative or imaginary rest mass and
always travel faster than light. They have never been observed and no one knows
how to search for them. Since they travel faster than light, their interactions
with normal matter would conflict with relativity. Gregory Benford, a physicist
and award winning SF author, has written a serious paper about a "Tachyonic
Anti-Telephone" which would allow one to place a call to the past. Needless to
say, this would violate causality as we understand it.
Invoking tachyons to explain some unknown effect is committing the fallacy
known as "Ignotus per ignotum," using one unknown to explain another. If and
when tachyons are discovered, and assuming they have the requisite properties,
then they may be used to explain unusual events.
Now to antimatter: I didn't mean to imply that particle accelerators bombard
anti-protons with positrons. High energy electrons collide with positrons and
protons with antiprotons to produce exotic particles such as the W and Z mesons
(the field quanta of the weak force).
if anti-Hydrogen and normal Hydrogen come into contact, the positrons and the
electrons will mutually annihilate to generate two gamma rays of .51 Mev. The
antiprotons and protons of the nuclei will also annihilate, but they do so in a
more complex fashion which produces a lot of intermediate particles. The end
result is the conversion of the mass of both the normal and the anti-matter to
energy according to Einstein's equation, E= mc2 (E=energy, m=totalmass, c=speed
of light).
The resulting gamma rays could be reflected off a heavy shield and used for
propulsion as a high energy photonic drive. Such as system seems to be the only
feasible energy source for interstellar flight according to the articles I've
seen.
Small amounts of antimatter could be made if anybody wanted to. For powering
interstellar spacecraft travelling at relativistic velocities, thousands or
millions of tons will be required, alas.
The energy released in ordinary fusion or fission reactions is only a small
fraction of this energy and comes from the binding energies of the nuclei:
fission and fusion are the nuclear analogs of fermentation, while
matter-antimatter annihilation is analogous to terminal oxidation. The nuclear
energies are about a million times larger than the chemical energies, however,
and this is why terrestrial organisms don't/can't use nuclear power in their
metabolism.
The yet undiscovered field particle of the gravitational force, the fourth of
the known forces, is the graviton. It would travel at the speed of light. I
don't know of any justification for the notion that gravitational effects
propagate at 2*c.
Although gravitational radiation has not been observed directly, certain binary
star systems are losing energy at the rate calculated for gravitational
radiation, so physicists are reasonable confident about the standard model.
Gravitational radiation antennas with sufficient sensitivity are being
constructed, so direct observation could occur soon.
Wave guides are conductive tubes which direct electromagnetic waves (radio
waves, light, etc). I have no idea if a gravitational wave guide or amplifier is
even theoretically possible. The people to ask are gravitational theorists such
as Kip Thorne, John Archibald Wheeler or Robert Forward (who also writes SF).
Forward has designed some hypothetical anti-gravity devices based on standard
physics. One involves passing the mass of a neutron star though a toroidal coil
the size of a football field in a millisecond to neutralize the earth's gravity
field in the center by generating the gravitational analog of the magnetic
field. The other methods are even less practical.
The problem is that gravity is 10 +43 times weaker than the Strong Force and
thus hard to study in the laboratory. One wishes to manipulate masses of at
least planetary size. Also, the gravitational field is always attractive and a
function of the geometry of space-time
i hope all of this wordage answers your questions. These are fascinating areas
and one can go on and on.
--John
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: taos!uucp
Subject: Hmmm...
Date: 28 Nov 89 12:47:02 GMT
I just had an interesting thought...if you had been sitting on the secret
of S-4 and dreamland for a long while, and had instructions to release the
information to the public only if it would not cause a crisis, what better
time to stage-leak the real story, as most of Eastern Europe and the Soviet
Union call off the cold war? Perhaps what Reagan was telling Gorbachev
in their summit conferences is that we'll all hang separately if we don't
hang together.
More paranoia from,
Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod)
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