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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume 1 Number 051
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 51
Friday, September 29th 1989
Today's Topics:
Re: Bill Moore As 'savior' Of The Ufological Community
Re: Why Disinformation?
MJ
Article on Soviets
Bill Moore
Re: And what of Socorro?
Re: Bill Moore as 'Savior' of the UFOlogical Community
Re: Bill Moore as 'Savior' of the UFOlogical Community
Scientology and ufos
NAV
Re: Bill Moore As 'savior' Of The Ufological Community
In Reply
Re: Physics
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From: paranet!mcorbin
Subject: Re: Bill Moore As 'savior' Of The Ufological Community
Date: 28 Sep 89 01:06:00 GMT
Jim,
> I somehow can't help thinking that Moore's role in the
> "betrayal" of Paul
> Bennewitz is being overplayed. Yes, in the end, it was
Perhaps so. However, we have to start somewhere with this mess. Moore is
only a speck in the overall picture. I suspect that this disinformation
thing goes much deeper than any of us would care to admit at this point,
however we must become aware of the symptoms. I noted in a previous message
from Keenan Anderson in which he states that it all sounds 'paranoid'. This
seems to be as common a word nowadays as 'disinformation'. But good 'ol
common sense and cautious apprehension is *not* paranoia. The symptoms of
disninformation are very clear: the introduction of sensationalistic and
beyond believable claims that completely defy all fact and truth. In
today's ufology, people have replaced hard core truth and evidence with
belief systems that support nothing, only wild speculation based upon so
called 'enlightenment', among other things. This is not to say that some of
this outrageous stuff could not have an explanation in ufology, but I don't
think that this can be proven, nor can it be proven that ufonauts like
Tibetan music and strawberry ice cream and, of course, human body parts at
the Dulce Hilton.
There is a clear attempt at undermining society's ability to understand this
problem in human terms. This is where the problem lies. Although this
phenomenon could prove to be extraterrestrial or ultra-dimensional, it does
not supercede our science's ability to understand it, for it clearly
interacts with our realm of reality. This would be grounded in truth and
fact.
So, with that in mind, where do we go from here?
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!mcorbin
Subject: Re: Why Disinformation?
Date: 28 Sep 89 01:19:00 GMT
Hi, Michael! Glad to see you here.
> From: infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
> From: MacLeod <ames!amdahl!drivax!macleod>
> Moore's recent note, quoted here, still dances around the
> nagging question:
> if the horrible parts ofthe Lear-Cooper-Bennewitz story are
> government
> disinformation, why were they issued? What purposes does
> the release of
> such grisly stuff serve? Unfortunately, I think most of
> the possible
> answers to this are unpleasant, so I'm not surprised that
> this question is
> not asked more often.
I think that it has become quite clear why. First, we must look at the
incredible damage that this revelation has done to ufology. In and of
itself, these claims had the appearance of urgency and concern. It created
such a stir that it is still being discussed and talked about. Linda Howe
devoted a large part of her book, Alien Harvest' to it. It tied in so
nicely with the MJ-12 material, too. As we have seen, several credible
ufologists 'jumped on the bandwagon' and rode with this. It became like a
small pebble rolling down a snowy hill, collecting snow upon itself until it
was a giant boulder. I can see that it has served at least two purposes:
1) If and when it is declared to be a wild hoax, all the credible people
that have subscribed to it will find their credibility damaged almost beyond
repair. Stanton Friedman is a good example of this. He has appeared as an
overwhelming total die hard believer in MJ-12. What will happen to him?
The same thing that happened to Keyhoe: He will be made to look like a
total fool.
2) The 'powers that be' that want this subject completely out of the hands
of the civilian sector have found that fear and oppression are the best and
most effective tools. Thus, enter underground soup vats and ETs creating
Christ and on and on. Psychologically, this has been the most devastating
blow to the overall society in that it has undermined major belief
foundations and rendered them without value. Secondly, it has instilled
such a fear in the public that a lot of them cannot deal with it and lose
their cookies, so to speak. This move has been effective at making people
afraid of the phenomenon, and a lot of them want no part of it.
Bottom line is that the UFO community has been fragmented more by this and
continues to spiral out of control downward, all the while making this whole
thing look as stupid as possible before the other parts of society that
might have the clout to do something about it. Can you imagine any
Congressman backing figures such as John Lear or Bill Cooper? Absolutely
not! What does this do for us serious folk? I think that it is time that
we take the reins here and stop letting people such as Bill Moore, Bill
Cooper, John Lear and the others represent and speak for us. We are hanging
by a very thin thread of credibility here and if we don't make our move, it
will most certainly be too late to recover and regroup.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Bill.English
Subject: MJ
Date: 28 Sep 89 16:49:00 GMT
MIKE, I just spoke with Bill Knell.....All information is being
transmitted to us and will be here within the week. we will upload
everything in article form for you so that you will be able to put it
directly on the system should you decide to.....this stuff is wild...
Kind regards, Bill English
--
Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bill.English@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!mcorbin
Subject: Article on Soviets
Date: 28 Sep 89 23:00:00 GMT
To All:
I am looking for a news clipping that appeared a few months ago
on either AP or UPI dealing with the Soviets and the space
station whereby they went to the space station and found a piece
of material stuck to the exterior hatch door which had writing on
it. Anyone with this article is asked to please upload it.
Thanks,
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rcw
Subject: Bill Moore
Date: 29 Sep 89 04:39:34 GMT
After reading through 1,000 lines of the magazine article, I have
one question: who cares what Bill Moore has to say? I couldn't
find a single thing (except a few things in exhibit 'A') that could
be independently verified. Why is so much attention focused on
this guy? All of the people involved sound rather shady, and even
the magazine article was a bit heavy on hyperbole.
Forgive me if I am too much on the outside looking in.
Robert White
rcw@scicom.alphacdc.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rcw
Subject: Re: And what of Socorro?
Date: 29 Sep 89 03:55:24 GMT
In article <7510.251F262B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Jim.Speiser@f20.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) writes:
>Robert...
>
>The date is in question, but is alternately given as July 2nd or July 7th,
>1947. The location of the Brazel wreckage is near the town of Corona, NM;
>the location of the Barnett crash is somewhere in the Plains of San
>Agustin.
>
>Jim
Corona, NM - Population 236, 31 Miles SW Vaughn, NM, 100 Miles N-NE of
Socorro. It stands to reason that 50-60 people in this town
were alive in July, 1947 who are still living there. Probably
more. Why don't we drive down and ask them their impressions?
Vaughn, NM - Weather records should be available for the dates in question.
I should be able to pin down any unusual activity. Keep in
mind that severe weather is common and localized in the area
this time of year, and that there is a certain probability that
I will fail. I will reproduce the records verbatim on the
info.paranet as soon as I can access them.
Plains of San Agustin -
An extremely large area, about 160 square miles. Coordinates
given are too vague to be of much help. I would start by
inquiring into the records at the Socorro County Court house
to locate the Barnett? ranch, then see if any old air photos
of the area exist. (A long shot, but perhaps they do).
Just curious, but when was the VLA Radio Telescope installation
built?
This may seem stupid to some people, but a lot of mysteries don't stand up
to even a cursory examination of the facts. So I'll plod along and verify
what is in my power to verify. You guys got me hooked ;-).
Robert White
rcw@scicom.alphacdc.com
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From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Bill Moore as 'Savior' of the UFOlogical Community
Date: 28 Sep 89 17:27:22 GMT
I don't think the questions posed by Sheridan can be answered properly
due to the ambiguity of the original premise. Are the questions couched
in the context of an investigators who is convinced beyond a reasonable
doubt that he KNOWS the true story or is it in the context of an
investigator who isn't sure what the true story is but he IS sure that
there is a true story out there and he needs to find it. Also, a lot
would depend on just what the true story is, if in fact the investigator
does know the truth. While some might be comfortable in answering NO to
the questions under any circumstances, I would not. For example, if the
story was not about UFO's but was about espionage of Atomic secrets
during WWII, I would not hesitate to betray a stranger or acquaintance.
Things are simply not black and white in EVERY situation.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton
Subject: Re: Bill Moore as 'Savior' of the UFOlogical Community
Date: 28 Sep 89 17:37:44 GMT
In regard to Moores assertion that he was doing in Paul B. at the behest
of Uncle Sam -- Why do you claim the real culprit is Uncle Sam, not
Moore? What evidence is there that what Moore has said about Uncles
invlvovement is true? Maybe Moore is making that up too? Aside from us
knowing that both Moore and Doty are actual people, what evidence is
there that anything that either of them say or do is "for real"?
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!Sky.Diver
Subject: Scientology and ufos
Date: 29 Sep 89 00:06:29 GMT
I have just recently discovered this echo and read your comments on LRH
and Scn. I am interested in more info on this subject. Some questions.
1. What is OTO?
2. >LRH is known to have been involved with the OTO in Los Angeles.
Known by who? What is your reference on this.
3. >Interestingly, when you confront the Church of Scientology with such
stories,
Who in the church was confronted or WHICH church of Scn. was
contacted? Was this the "official" church response to such inquiries?
4. What is "Nevada Aerial Research"
5. Why should we give more weight to what NAV says about LRH's theories
than to what the man on the street says about LRH's theories?
6. (comment) I have read several of LRH's books and the only one I recall
having anything to do with e.t.'s is "Scientology: A History of Man".
Since I read it a new printing has come out with 2 added previously
unreleased chapters. It is not an ordinary book.
7. Who is M. Cannon? I must have missed his/her comments. Would enjoy
reading them though.
8. >"wake up" humans before a series of destabilizing actions and events
occurred which would throw human civilization into a tailspin.
(comment) This alligns with what I have read, however in my
experience the "actions and events" were always clearly indicated to be
man's self distruction through nuclear war and nothing else. (LRH was a
nuclear physicist among other things.)
Would enjoy hearing from you (or anyone else) regarding these
points. Also thanks to all who are responsible for making this service
available. Good day all... John Ryder
--
Sky Diver - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Sky.Diver@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paranet!Sky.Diver
Subject: NAV
Date: 29 Sep 89 00:35:36 GMT
Almost forgot, how can I get a copy of the information that NAV recently
published?
Thanks, J.R.
--
Sky Diver - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Sky.Diver@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!mcorbin
Subject: Re: Bill Moore As 'savior' Of The Ufological Community
Date: 29 Sep 89 17:05:00 GMT
Jim,
> I don't think the questions posed by Sheridan can be
> answered properly due to the ambiguity of the original
> premise. Are the questions couched in the context of an
> While some might be comfortable in answering NO to the
> questions under any circumstances, I would not. For
> example, if the story was not about UFO's but was about
> espionage of Atomic secrets during WWII, I would not
> hesitate to betray a stranger or acquaintance. Things are
> simply not black and white in EVERY situation.
I agree with this to an extent. In any case there are circumstances.
However, with the evidence that has been amassed in this instance, it
appears that there may be evidence to indicate a motive 'couched' in ego and
greed. In this instance, I would say that what has taken place was well
below the ethics quotient. As I said before, I could be off a bit in my
assessment of this situation and will be reviewing a copy of Moore's speech
as soon as it arrives to see for myself.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!f401.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bob.Fletcher
Subject: In Reply
Date: 30 Sep 89 03:57:00 GMT
->Well Bob ive been a user of the NSW node for some time and am a firm
believer
->in UFO's and EBE's.
Frank:
I am afraid that I never seem to take much notice of the origin
lines. Anyway its nice to have you in Melbourne.
->Im mainly interested in amateur radio/radio astronomy, whilst in perth i
had a
->rather large uhf/shf array and a 4.5m dish, unfortunately they went with
the
->house..(sad).
It seems that you like me have traveled around a bit. I too have
spent some time in Perth. In fact it was there years ago that I was
sitting in a friends car at North Beach looking out over the ocean at
night, when we sighted a most splendid sight of a "ball of fire" with
pieces of fire falling of making a splendid "fireworks" display in the
night sky. That was a satellite burning up and after seeing this I
can see how some people report the unusual.
I remember several years ago listening to Sam Voron VK2BVS, talking to
someone on 11 metres, (Yes pre CB), about a group within WIA that was
studying UFO's etc. Do you know if that group still exists?
I have had a daytime sighting of a UFO when I was a kid but thats
another story.
->Ihave a couple of rather good star chart packages that may be of interest
to
->users with pc or cpm based machines.
These sound to be of interest, I have one called "THE_SKY" I guess I
should start a file area for such things. Please upload them and
drop me a message in "General" if they are Australian I will send them
straight over to the USA. Otherwise Mike will have to ask. The
CP/M one should be of particular interest to all those CP/M users who
seem to have been forgotten these days.
->Im also a professional television/film director, im currently researching a
->documentary on the use of the Dept. of Defence facility at Cabarlah QLD.
There
->has been some discussion that it is being used for activities connected
with
->ufo/et research.
->More on that later.
Definitely, I hope ParaNet will not be forgotten, this is most
interesting.
Regards,
Bob......
PS. Transferred reply to UFO area. Also have written to you
privately.
--
Bob Fletcher - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bob.Fletcher@f401.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: paranet!f401.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Luigi.Martin
Subject: Re: Physics
Date: 30 Sep 89 05:03:00 GMT
Hi Marc,
Now that I am thinking about it, it seems that nuclear propulsion is
not a good idea. The weight of the fuel would rule out the possibility
of any of the "actobatics" which can bee seen in ufo's ( even if no
sheilding was used). This applies to both fission & fusion. I seem to
remember reading that nuclear reactions convert a very small percentage
of the fuel mass into energy; so that you are left with a most of your
original fuel mass, and one hell of a radiation problem. Even fusion
produces some radiation. It's similar to the problem with rocket
propulsion: you need tonnes of rocket fuel just to move a few kilos
into orbit.
Antimatter, on the other hand, is a much better propositi. In theory,
100% of the fuel is converted into energy, so less fuel is needed to
achieve the same results as fission/fusion. However, matter-antimatter
anhiliation produces some degree of radiation ( I don't know how much,
of how dangerous ).
At this point, this theory has a few problems: the anhiliation process
produces very high energy photons ( probably somewhere in the gamma-ray
or in the cosmic-ray region) ,
I don't know how useable thrust can be obtained from these photons.
Another problem would be obtaining & storing sufficient quantities of
antimatter ( manufacturing it is not worth the expenditure ).
>>> Luigi Martin <<<
--
Luigi Martin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Luigi.Martin@f401.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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