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Abduction Digest Number 67
Abduction Digest, Number 67
Monday, July 13th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Silent Invasion
What's happening
Intruders
Silent Invasion
Workshops
MIT Conference
Omega Project
Who is an abductee?
Ambiguities
Workshops
Omega Project
Ambiguities
Who is an abductee?
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Silent Invasion
Date: 4 Jul 92 07:04:15 GMT
I would like to think you for your kind words about my book, it is always
nice to hear positive feedback. I am afraid that I have to agree with you
about the possibility of invasion on a more overt level. One of the things that
historians learn very quickly is that you cannot predict the future. While it
is certainly true that if invasion is on the aliens minds, they could have
accomplished it a long time ago. It is also true that the end-product of the
abduction scenario could be a full-scale invasion in the future. It is also
true that a more sinister, covert, invasion could also be in the works.
Anything is possible. Right now we have to stick to what is known. They
could have invaded if they wanted to and they didn't. I think that is a
positive note in our favor.
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: What's happening
Date: 4 Jul 92 03:24:00 GMT
> conducting a series of workshops around the country for psychiatrists
> and psychologists who are interested in learning more about the
> subject.
Please post a schedule for the workshops when you're ready to hold them. I
know a local psychologist who'd be very interested, plus I know a psychiatric
staff chief whose curiosity might just get the better of him.
jbh
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From: David.Brune@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Brune)
Subject: Intruders
Date: 6 Jul 92 04:37:00 GMT
Keith,
Please do! It will be interesting to see if 'Intruders' does anything for the
UFO phenomena in your neck of the woods.
I would be especially interested in any sighting or abduction data that may
come up.
David
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From: Alan.Decker@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Alan Decker)
Subject: Silent Invasion
Date: 7 Jul 92 06:51:00 GMT
One of the things that your work brings to the surface is the
"bonding" process. I have wondered for some time at what point the
abductee's terror and fear suddenly change to "love and compassion"
for their abductors. I mean, It seems perfectly natural to feel
abject horror over what you are being subjected to, but
once you are on the "table", suddenly all is forgiven, everything is
fine, and you feel just peachy- keen! I imagined it to be either
drugs or technology or a combination. I suspect the "bonding"
procedure to be the main culprit in molding the hostage's feelings
towards the "visitor's" favor.
Alan
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Workshops
Date: 7 Jul 92 05:44:20 GMT
John, the workshops are being given to interested psychiatrists, psychologists,
and psychiatric social workers who mailed in a special card that was included
in the Roper Poll booklet. The first one will be in New York City in mid-July.
After that they will be held around the country, we hope. It means a lot of
work for Budd and I but we feel that this is worth it.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: MIT Conference
Date: 7 Jul 92 05:50:40 GMT
The MIT conference was set up by Dave Pritchard and John Mack. It had
several goals. The first, I guess, was to bring together the major researchers
in the abduction area and have them share data to see what everyone has been
able to come up with. The second goal, I think, was to produce the proceedings
which will, it was hoped, act as a scientific guide to the abduction phenomenon
that scientists and professionals could refer to for solid information. My
guess is that the third goal was to allow the abduction research community to
find out where the state of art is these days. I am not sure that all these
goals were met, but at least it was a good, and valuable, attempt that can
only be seen as another step in the important goal of professionalization.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Omega Project
Date: 7 Jul 92 05:55:01 GMT
Doug, I wrote a detailed critique of Kenneth Ring's article on the Omega
Project in the current issue of the JOURNAL OF UFO STUDIES. I am afraid that
I was not very impressed with the article or his findings. I thought that the
study was ill-conceived and told us very little about anything. The only point
that was interesting is that he could not find any evidence that the Fantasy
Prone Personality theory was a major player in abductions or Near Death
Experiences. However, the study was so poor, that I am not even sure that he
established that.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Who is an abductee?
Date: 7 Jul 92 06:23:43 GMT
Pony, Thank you very much for your message. I certainly agree that strange
events happen to people that are not apparently related to the abduction
phenomenon. When a person contacts me to find out the origin of these strange
events, I usually talk with him or her for quite a long time on the phone at
first. I want to ascertain whether that person is suffering from mental
illness, delusions, or some other form of psychological generation of
paranormal events. I do this by asking a series of about twenty-five questions
designed to elicity most of the unusual experiences that a person can remember
having occurred to him or her. The people who, in my judgement, are not
abductees I do not work with. I tell them that the origin of their experiences
lies outside of my expertize and I try to refer them to someone else. If they
are seriously psychologically disturbed, I refer them to a therapist and tell
them that I am not equipped to work with them.
One person told me that he had had an out of body experience once. He was
hooked up to umpteen IV's and medical equipment. He was in the hospital for a
life-threatening illness. His mother was next to him. He floated up to the
ceiling and saw his body in the bed and his mother looking up at him. I
judged that this, obviously, had nothing to do with the abduction phenomenon.
I have also had occassion to do hypnosis with several individuals who thought
that they might be abductees. After the sessions, I judged that these
individuals were not, in fact, abductees even though they were very suspicious
that they were.
I think that the publication of my book makes it easier for a person to
fake an abduction, and it also makes it easier for a person to absorb abduction
material and then repeat it back to the researcher as if it happened to him or
her. It must be said, however, that in my experience, and in Budd Hopkins',
the latter problem is not nearly as big or widespread as is thought. It is
extremely important to screen each and every potential abductee so that the
researcher knows what he or she is actually researching.
It is also important to be very careful about how one does the screening.
One must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Inexperienced
researchers have said that good abduction cases were a hoax because various
aspects of the case were found to be contradictory or the witness was not as
helpful as the investigator desired. What is even more important, is that the
abduction phenomenon is extremely widespread and its hints and clues can be
easily overlooked by even the most experienced UFO investigators. My best guess
is that thousands of abduction events are couched behind UFO sightings and
have been filed away in the cabinets of hundreds of UFO researchers over the
years.
Pony, I cannot comment on what has happened to you personally. It is most
probable that your explanation of the events is absolutely correct and I am
going to leave it at that.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Ambiguities
Date: 7 Jul 92 07:10:59 GMT
Vladmir, I hope that we are finally moving to concensus. To clear up your
puzzlement, I had assumed that if you adhered to the Rodeghier definition of
abductees, then it would automatically mean that you agreed with propostion
that anybody who claims to be an abductee is therefore an abductee. That is
what the Rodgehier definition allows. If you do not feel that this is the
case, then you and I are in agreement that the Rodeghier definition should be
amended. I hope this clears it up for you.
I could not help but notice that you appear to be rather centered on the
idea that there would be such a thing as leading UFO researchers. You have made
the leap into the idea that this is a self-serving statement on my part. To the
best of my knowledge when the definition of abductions was conceived it was not
done in consultation with Dick Haines, John Carpenter, John E. Mack, Budd
Hopkins, or Dave Jacobs. I understand that Rodeghier had a perfect right to
say anything that he wanted to in print. I also think that he could have
avoided quite a lot of imprecision and problems if he had consulted with those
individuals, and others.
I certainly agree with your sentiments about sharing data and publishing
in refereed journals. In the United States there are only two refereed
journals that publish pro-abduction material, THE JOURNAL OF UFO STUDIES and
THE JOURNAL OF SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION. Every once in a while a psychological
journal will publish an article showing how UFOs or abductions are related to
some other phenomenon, but for the main the normal channels of scientific
information sharing are closed off to UFO reseachers. The same is true in the
book publishing world. You might be aware of the fact that my first book, THE
UFO CONTROVERSY IN AMERICA, remains the only authored book on UFOs that takes
a pro-UFO stance ever to be published by a refereed press--and that was in
1975! I originally gave my manuscript for SECRET LIFE to Temple University
Press--a very good press. They had it for three months and never even bothered
to look at it. So the situation for abduction and UFO articles in refereed
journals and presses remains fairly dismal. But, I am sure that you will join
with me in hoping that the quality of our work will increase and that the
arbitrary decisions of the refereed journals and presses will become more
liberal so that we can meet in the middle and have a wider spread of scientific
information.
Finally, although I agree that a certain amount of information can be
derived from conscious recollections of abduction material, I feel that being
deprived of the very powerful weapon of hypnosis which is so uniquely suited
for this type of work, places you are at a distinct disadvantage. Until
Australian researchers learn to work around this problem, and there are ways
to do this, or until medical professionals not only get interested in the
situation but also learn enough about doing research in it to be competent at
it, abduction research will be enormously more difficult in an area that is
already extremely difficult.
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Workshops
Date: 8 Jul 92 17:06:00 GMT
DJ> John, the workshops arfe being given to interested
DJ> psychiatrists, psychologists, and psychiatric social
DJ> workers who mailed in a special card that was included in
DJ> the Roper Poll booklet.
Sounds _very_ worthwhile. I hope those docs are curious enough to set
aside their preconceived notions and pay attention.
jbh
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From: Doug.Morrow@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Morrow)
Subject: Omega Project
Date: 10 Jul 92 22:16:00 GMT
David,
I have finished his book, and I am surprised that you feel it was
ill concieved. From my understanding, he was trying to demonstrate
that individuals who have UFO encounters and others that have NDEs
share a number of common traits. It seemed that his statistical
study did support that conclusion.
Do you fault his basic hypothsis, his methods or his analysis? It
seemed to me that all have some measure of value, and that it may be
to early to dismiss his ideas and findings outright.
Also, you said that he did not find any evidence of Fantasy Prone
Personalities in his studies, which is true, but he did find what he
called "Encounter" Prone Personalities. Do you accept that there may
be something to that, or are you convinced that few abductees share
any similar, pre-existing psychological traits?
Thanks, Doug
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Ambiguities
Date: 11 Jul 92 05:57:01 GMT
+ I certainly agree with your sentiments about sharing data and
+ publishing in refereed journals. In the United States there are only
+ two refereed journals that publish pro-abduction material, THE JOURNAL
+ OF UFO STUDIES and THE JOURNAL OF SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION. Every once
+ in a while a psychological journal will publish an article showing how
+ UFOs or abductions are related to some other phenomenon, but for the
+ main the normal channels of scientific information sharing are closed
+ off to UFO reseachers. The same is true in the book publishing world.
+ You might be aware of the fact that my first book, THE UFO CONTROVERSY
+ IN AMERICA, remains the only authored book on UFOs that takes a pro-UFO
+ stance ever to be published by a refereed press--and that was in 1975!
+ I originally gave my manuscript for SECRET LIFE to Temple University
+ Press--a very good press. They had it for three months and never even
+ bothered to look at it. So the situation for abduuction and UFO
+ articles in refereed journals and presses remains fairly dismal. But,
+ I am sure that you will join with me in hoping that the quality of our
+ work will increase and
+ that the arbitrary decisions of the refereed journals and presses will
+ become more liberal so that we can meet in the middle and have a wider
+ spread of scientific information.
David. I am wondering what should be done by the legit UFO researchers to
bring this problem to bear in the right arenas? I agree: Temple University
is a fine press. Given your status there, what could they possibly say to
justify their inaction for publishing your material?
Mike
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From: Bill.Skiles@p7.f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Skiles)
Subject: Who is an abductee?
Date: 10 Jul 92 03:38:00 GMT
+ The people who, in my judgement, are not abductees I do not work with.
+ It is extremely important to screen each and every potential abductee so that
+ the researcher knows what he or she is actually researching.
+ It is also important to be very careful about how one does the screening.
David, is there any way a person can screen themselves,
so that they don't have to bother researchers unless and/or
until they can acertain that they are an abductee?
Bill
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