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Abduction Digest Number 36
Abduction Digest, Number 36
Friday, December 20th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Bible
Re: Strieber
abductions
Strieber
abductions
abductions
Re: abductions
Research
Research
Abduction Research
Research
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From: Bob.Martin@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Martin)
Subject: Re: Bible
Date: 14 Dec 91 16:57:00 GMT
Actually, primitives don't mistake more "advanced" societies for gods
in most instances; they simply consider them mortals with bigger magic.
An accurate perseption, in my view, since science is just another
religion (just as religion, before science, -was- science - and
-remains- science for some).
--
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From: Bob.Martin@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Martin)
Subject: Re: Strieber
Date: 17 Dec 91 03:01:00 GMT
Thanks for the info, though I was more interested in pointing out the
hazy line between fact and fantasy for Streiber, than I was in further
exploring it. The fact is, I don't car for his fiction much, and I'm
not sure that he's ever written any non-fiction <g>!
I'm not a complete skeptic, but Streiber strikes me as less plausible
than, say, Uri Geller.
--
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: abductions
Date: 17 Dec 91 05:10:00 GMT
> DH> I would say, the probability that UFO's really exist is higher...
>
>
> I would say they are both improbable...but UFOs are easier
> to look for. :)
>
Sure -- the Belgian Air Force has some interesting tracking
tapes, for starters...
Best,
Clark
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Strieber
Date: 17 Dec 91 05:17:00 GMT
> Bob, Hi, you asked about Striber's fiction writings. I read
> his book "Cat Magic" which was published in 1987 by
> Grafton, of London England. There are some parallels to
> "Communion" and "Transformation." Examples are:-
Interesting stuff -- I read his novels as an acquisitions editor
about 10 years ago (met him briefly at a couple of publishing
drink 'em ups) and I share your opinion.
A lot of the form-changing, manitou-like stuff he ascribes to
his "aliens" can also be found in The Wolfen, among other books.
A less-known fact is the unsavory reputation that attached itself
to Mr. Strieber and his wife in the 3 years prior to Communion.
They formed a literary consulting service for budding writers,
the principal was Mrs. Strieber, and several unsatisfied
customers left with complaints of a squeezed-out bestselling
author stealing ideas from unpublished folks.
Apropos you last comment...
> Bob, also worth looking out for is Strieber's latest novel:
> "The Wild",1991 Futura books, London. It's about a man who
> turns into a wolf. Some interesting comments in it about
> Earth and co-existing entities-wolves.
Yes, all present in his pre-UFO iconography.
So's the sinister secret government/private security firm stuff.
I think the Streiber story is 100% whole cloth. (Holed cloth?)
Best,
Clark
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: abductions
Date: 17 Dec 91 05:32:00 GMT
> AHH But what if one does not believe in a Supreme Being
> separate from oneself...
In other words, you're God? Which god? Jehovah? Satan? Lucifer?
Do you have to choose, or can you mix 'n match? (I've always
though that belief systems should be like The Gap, yasee)
> What if they believe and therefore
> have proof to themselves that GODDESS exists!
Who dat?? More to the point, whut dat doin' in the UFO abductions echo???
> And what if
> they also have proof to themselves that UFO's exist and
> abductions occur.
Wait, this is important!!! If you have such proofs, please send
them immediately to Mr. Phillip J. Klass, c/o Aviation Week
Magazine, Washington, DC
Tell him Walt sent ya.
> Whether or not anyone else believes them
> is inconsequential, because you need prove nothing to no
> one.
Three cheers for solipsism! Hip Hip... huh?!?!?!
Thank You for Sharing That With Us! And a very festive Sawain
to you and Mr. Goddess, and all the little smurfs, too.
Cheerio! -- And Very *Best* wishes to all the other folks at St.
Catherines!
Clark
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: abductions
Date: 17 Dec 91 05:40:00 GMT
> Thanks for your post! I have a question for you.... Is it
> not possible that the Gods of the Ancient peoples were
> perhaps Non-terrestrial beings who were here at that
> time....we really have no proof one way or the other, but
> it is theoretically possible, isn't it?
We have very little proof today that they're non-terrestrial.
They could be extradimensional.
Best,
Clark
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From: Carl.Aztec@f70.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Carl Aztec)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 17 Dec 91 06:38:16 GMT
> I dn't believe in hassling atheists or agnostics;
> however, everyone agrees that there are at the very
> least "principles" of some sort that allow existence.
> I call the "principles" God. Sure, it smacks of
> semantics, but give it some thought...you may reply
> that these principles are not sentient nor self-aware,
> as most folks require of a supreme being; but what is
> sentience? All of existence is the "sentience" of the
> "principles"...maybe...
Theosophy - well that's what it sounds like. The
Theosophical Society was started in 1875 by Mme. H.P.
Blavatsky.
One of the "fundamental propositions" is:
1. An Omnipresent, Eternal, Boundless and immutable PRINCIPLE, on which all
speculation is impossible ... beyond the range and reach of
thought.
(You're probably wondering about the other 2 propositions -
OK - here they are:)
2. The Eternity of the Universe in toto is a boundless
plane, periodically the 'playground of numberless Universes
incessantly manifesting and disappearing'...
(shades of alternate dimensions! but an interesting concept
especially coming from an 1875 woman)
3. The fundamental identity of all Souls with the Universal
Oversoul ... and the obligatory pilgrimate for every Soul
... through the cycle of Incarnation (or 'Necessity') in
accordance with cyclic and karmic law.
That Bob, is the sum total of my knowledge of Theosophy
however, there are many books available on the subject if
you wanted to persue it.
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Research
Date: 15 Dec 91 17:03:00 GMT
Is anyone in this folder actually conducting research into abductions?
There seems almost no discussion for which the folder was created. I'm
happy to chat to anyone who can swop abduction material.
--
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Research
Date: 18 Dec 91 15:14:00 GMT
> Is anyone in this folder actually conducting research into abductions?
> There seems almost no discussion for which the folder was created. I'm
> happy to chat to anyone who can swop abduction material.
We will be joined soon by Dave Jacobs. In the meantime, please start a
discussion about your research in Oz.
Mike
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 20 Dec 91 03:21:01 GMT
Hi Keith,
The following is a brief biographical profile of a possible
abduction case I have been investigating. It was composed by the
percipient. Please let me know what you think of this material. (sw)
_________________________________________________________________
*** NOTE *** Personal names have been deleted
_________________________________________________________________
FAMILY HISTORY:
Percipient: Female, age 35, (Name Deleted) born 2/9/56 in Newport Beach,
CA - during a sizable earthquake.
Mother: (Name Deleted) Born 7/29/28 (deceased 11/14/82). Of English
and Creek Indian (Muskogee Nation) ancestry (though not verifiable;
suspect mother's father bought ancestry papers to cover Indian
roots). History of diabetes, heart disease, cancer in family. Died
from complications of diabetes. Was an educator, painter, and
numerologist.
Father: (Name Deleted) Born 12/9/09. Still living - residing in
nursing home, suffering from advanced Parkinson's disease. Of
Norwegian ancestry, first person in his family to marry out of his
nationality in 1000 years. History of diabetes, and neurological
diseases in family. Was a painter, educator and theosophist.
Siblings: Half sister from father's previous marriage - born
1/18/46
Half brother from father's previous marriage - born 6/6/47
Brother - born 11/14/58
Sister - born 2/10/60
Sister - born 8/21/64; deceased - died from neuroblastoma (Wilm's
Tumor)
_________________________________________________________________
MEDICAL HISTORY:
1) Complications from chicken pox at 6 months, went to lungs;
caused weak lungs - later developing into respiratory condition.
Hospitalized several times as a child with bronchial pneumonia.
2) Menses at age 10
3) Scarlet fever at age 12
4) Hospitalized with mysterious abdominal distension and pain at
age 16
5) Mysterious bleeding (bled for a month) at age 18
6) "Hysterical" episode at age 19. Found outside at night. Thought
a man was trying to cut out my baby (wasn't pregnant).
Hospitalized, given elavil and tranxene.
7) Pelvic inflammatory disease at age 20
8) Persistent allergies at all ages
9) Chronic nose bleeds and bleeding from ears (hemorrhaged both
eardrums at age 16).
10) Broken back at age 23
11) Unexplained tumors at age 23
12) Hospitalizes for mysterious tumors, abdominal distension and
pain, unusual blood count - doctors thought I had cancer twice that
year - age 24
13) Malaria at age 25
14) Recurring tumors at age 26
15) Pelvic inflammatory disease twice at age 27. Miscarriage.
16) Diagnosed with Candida albicans and Hypothyroidism at age 29.
17) Miscarriage at age 32
18) Diagnosed with diabetes at age 33
19) Complete hysterectomy at age 34
_________________________________________________________________
SEXUAL ABUSE:
1) Age 5: Molested by a neighbor boy.
2) Age 9: Molested by an elderly man who was a neighbor.
3) Age 11: Molested by a son of friends of the family.
4) Age 14: Forced seduction by a psychologist - was able to escape.
5) Age 22: Raped, drugged and held captive for 3 days by a
psychiatrist. Was not his patient. Didn't report it.
_________________________________________________________________
EXPERIENCES:
1) Night terror dreams since infancy
2) Age 3: Began playing with "light beings". Said that they were
"Jesus and his friends". Beings that emanated great amounts of
light (as a child, equated them with Italian holy pictures). My
parents let me roam on our property, unsupervised for hours.
3) Age 3: Became extremely afraid in the evening hours. Would
refuse to go to bed because I felt that there were people outside
my window waiting to take me away. I began bringing large cardboard
boxes into my room, so that I could hide from them. Sometimes the
fear would extend into the daylight hours. One day, I became lost
because I crawled into the crawlspace of our large two story
farmhouse, to escape "them". My parents were frantic! My father
finally rescued me from the bowels of the house, after a great
amount of the day had passed.
4) Age 4: Began awaking at night expecting to find spiders in my
bed. I became transfixed by them - to the point that my father
found me playing in a black widow's nest.
5) Age 6: Declared to an entire family gathering of 300, that I
would never have children. The same night, I saw a large ball of
light streak across the sky. My parents also saw it. They said:
"Never mind, it must be Santa Claus".
6) Age 8: Saw a large "angel" floating at eye level with me (I
slept on the top bunk of a bunk-bed) in the early morning hours.
I bound out of bed to tell my mother that St. Michael had just
visited me. She humored me...
7) Age 11: I was playing in a deserted farmhouse in Tennessee, with
a girlfriend - when we both suddenly realized we were in the middle
of a huge field of yellow flowers. It was strange. We hadn't
noticed it before (we had been playing for quite some time - and
the farmhouse had no doors or windows, so visually, it would be
difficult to miss). We became almost "drugged" with the discovery
and I said: "Every time I'm sad, I'll remember this field, for as
long as I live".
8) From 1976 to 1980, I did a lot of travelling throughout Northern
New Mexico. Every time I passed through Abique, Chama, or Questa
areas, I would feel extremely uncomfortable. I was strangely shaken
by these places, and every time I returned home I would turn on the
radio and hear reports of cattle mutilations in those same places,
at the same times...
9) Middle of October, 1980: I returned home late, after spending an
evening with friends (I had one drink and a puff on a joint, much
earlier, with little or no effect). I put my key in the lock and
was stunned by a powerful light. I looked to my right and saw an
immense ship, that covered my entire field of vision. I got a
sudden, but profound look at it! The next thing I remember is being
crouched in the corner of my portal, completely naked (but oddly
warm). I looked up to see all my clothes neatly folded and stacked
by the door, and the key still in the lock. I quickly gathered my
things, went inside, and noticed the clock. I was shocked to
discover 6 missing hours. I slipped into bed. The next thing I
remember was a deep voice in my head saying: "We are all ONE". The
next morning I told a couple of friends. They didn't believe me,
but begged me not to report it. We turned on the radio, just as the
disc jockey was announcing that there were 8 sightings of a UFO the
night before. I remained silent.
10) June 1986: My husband and I were caught in a large fog bank in
Arkansas. Upon emerging from it (we were driving a pick-up truck
and hauling a utility trailer), we saw a large day-glow green ball
fly across the sky, landing in a clump of trees to our right. The
next thing we remember is a coyote staring at us from the road,
with day-glow green eyes - the exact color of the flying ball. We
were not wearing watches and the truck did not have a clock. We
were very shaken, and ended up driving all night, to get the hell
out of Arkansas!
11) Santa Fe, NM, September 1988: Watching television one evening
when out of the corner of my eye, I saw a large, bright, purple
ball streak across the sky. Curious, I stood to catch a better look
at it. I saw it land beside the prison (a few miles away as the
crow flies). When it landed, it illuminated the entire sky for
about 2 seconds. Later that night, I bolted to a sitting position,
in bed. I felt that something was wrong with the house - I jumped
out of bed to discover that the front door was wide open. When I
awoke, my pillow case had blood on it. Both my husband and I were
having a lot of nosebleeds at that time. My ears were also bleeding
and I had strange marks on my body that I went to the doctor about.
She's ruled out fungus - she didn't know what it was. It was a
triangle, in the middle of a circle.
12) Grand Junction, CO, August 1989: I awoke in my motel room (we
were on holiday) to find two beings on top of the table, directly
in front of me. I pinched myself to make sure that I was awake.
Indeed I was! I walked over to them. I reached up to touch one of
them. The next thing I remember I was lying in bed, in the morning.
13) Newport, OR, Sunday, 12:30 A.M. - 3:24 A.M., 11/18/90: I was
watching Saturday Night Live. Paul Simon was on, I noticed the
time. I was alert and very much awake, but all of a sudden I was in
a dream with a friend and two men in black suits, escorting us to
a large silver disc. The next thing I remember was sitting back on
my couch, watching a show on UFOs.
14) Newport, OR, Saturday, 2 A.M. - 2:51 A.M., 12/1/90: I was just
getting into bed, when I noticed a strange, bright green line,
glowing above the curtains in the bedroom. I stood up and walked
over to it to investigate. I felt a "presence" in back of me. I
turned around and saw in the hallway mirror, a shadow about 3 feet
tall and whitish. I made a bolt, trying to catch it. The next thing
I know, I'm sitting up in bed looking at the clock.
_________________________________________________________________
COMMENTS:
After all these years of strange occurrences, my curiosity is
keener than ever, I've gone through stages of denial and complete
doubt. I've mentally investigated many possibilities that might be
causing such happenings - but, I am constantly haunted by dreams,
curious feelings (on all levels) and strange marks on my body - not
to mention chronic ailments of unknown origin. I'm not only
concerned about my experiences and their ramifications, but my
husbands role and safety through all this. I have been drug and
alcohol free for almost 8 years, and don't partake in caffeine or
tobacco either. My husband is equally strict with himself.
<EOF>
<I am most interested in your comments and questions on this case. You
may respond via this echo or netmail me at 1:11/50.>
Regards,
Sheldon Wernikoff---
--
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From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Research
Date: 19 Dec 91 15:34:46 GMT
In a message to All <15 Dec 91 10:03> Keith Basterfield wrote:
KB> Is anyone in this folder actually conducting research into
KB> abductions? There seems almost no discussion for which the folder
KB> was created. I'm happy to chat to anyone who can swop abduction material.
Keith:
I wouldn't call it "research," so much as data-gathering at this point, but I
am somewhat reluctantly involved in talking with abductees and obtaining
hypnosis where I think it necessary. I say "reluctantly"; I am enjoying the
feeling of helping people who feel they have nowhere else to turn, but I am not
a trained researcher, psychologist, hypnotist or scientist, and cannot help
feeling that I may be in over my head. I am getting advice from others, and so
far I don't think I've done too much damage.
My opinion of abductions, based on what I've read and now what I've experienced
first hand (through my subjects), is that we seem to have something here, but
we still have a long way to go before we eliminate psychological causes. Much
of what I've heard sounds very much like dream-state material. Feelings of
bilocation, "floating", etc., puts me in mind of the OOBE material; bedroom
abductions bear marked similarity to "hagging" and other hypnogogic/hypnopompic
experiences. The only thing pointing to objective reality is the correlation
between accounts. The "anomalous scars" and "scoop marks" are not by any means
an indicator, since there is very little one-to-one correlation between any two
such incidents. One person will have one on the arm, one on the leg, another
under the armpit, one will have six pinpoints arranged in a circle, another
will have 4 arranged in a rough square. I would expect to see something along
the lines of the tell-tale tuberculosis test scar that some people have on
their upper arms. And the implants situation is a minefield of misinformation.
Every day I hear some rumor that "Dave's got one" or "Budd's got two" or
"Whitley sneezed and short-circuited a radio station" or something. If
thousands of people have been abducted, as we are led to believe, and a good
percentage have been implanted, we should have seen something solid by now.
I am very heartened, however, by what almost seems like a surreptitious mass-
exodus of psychologists into the abduction fray. Every month it seems I hear a
new name with capital letters after it coming into the field. John Mack, for
example, and Georgetown psychiatry professor James Gordon.
I might use this message to ask any and all, what IS the current state of
abduction research, as far as is known? Is my perception of growing interest by
the mental health community correct? Is Robert Baker the only recognized
psychology authority to pooh-pooh the whole field? Are the TREAT conferences
anything worth crowing about?
Thanks for your message, Keith.
Jim
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