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Abduction Digest Number 65
Abduction Digest, Number 65
Thursday, June 11th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Re: Abduction Theory?
Missing Abductees
Re: Missing abductees
CROP CIRCLES
Abduction Theory?
MUFON Conference
Abd. Conference
Abduction Theory?
Abduction Theory?
Re: Missing Abductees
Biopsy
Re: Abduction Theory?
Re: MUFON Conference
Re: Abduction Theory?
Intruders
Sleep research 1
Sleep research 2
Non-missing abductees
Re: Intruders
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From: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Marc Michalik)
Subject: Re: Abduction Theory?
Date: 2 Jun 92 21:19:00 GMT
Why not? The state of mind an abductee is in facilitates control of
the subject that is apparently physicaly stronger. If they are the
scientists of their race then this would be a logical method. Just
like our scientists tranquilize tigers and other dangerous (to us)
animals. To take it even farther, if a mouse were a scientist he
would surely "neutrilize" a cat before attempting any close
examination.
--
Marc Michalik - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Missing Abductees
Date: 3 Jun 92 07:23:00 GMT
In response to a message from John Powell, David Jacobs writes:
> John, to follow up on the discussion about abductees
> being missing during an abduction event. To the best of
> my knowledge we do not have a single case anywhere,
> anytime, of an abductee being physically in a normal place
> while an abduction event is ongoing. Keith Basterfield has
> said that he has two cases of this happening, but my
> discussion with him about this and my research into one of
> his cases suggests that he is in error on both accounts.
> Therefore I can say with a certain degree of confidence
> that the percentage of abductees who are missing is 100%.
> Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
Please explain the basis for your conclusion that your research into
one of Keith's cases suggests that "he is in error on both
accounts".
Thankyou in advance ...
-- John
--
John Burke - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu!jrblack
Subject: Re: Missing abductees
Date: 4 Jun 92 21:51:25 GMT
From: James Roger Black <jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu>
If memory serves, Ray Fowler's 'Betty Andreasson' case had at least one
instance where the abductee was observed by a family member to be still
in bed during the time when the abduction was taking place. This was
'explained' as an imposture by one of the aliens to allay suspicion.
There was also a case reported years ago in IUR in which a man went
into a full-blown abduction experience while riding in a car with two
friends. The abductee was screaming hysterically about being followed
by a 'flying saucer' which looked to his two friends like an ordinary
bus. The abductee became so agitated that he jumped out of the car in
traffic and injured himself, after which his friends took him to a
local medical facility to be patched up. The abductee interpreted this
as a typical 'examining room' experience, and the human medical
personnel as aliens.
I think we're going to have to make a place for 'non-missing' abductees
in any comprehensive treatment of the phenomenon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Black jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: CROP CIRCLES
Date: 1 Jun 92 04:47:00 GMT
I've forwarded the following to you here, since I believe you're in the
Philadelphia area, in the hope that you'd be able to pass it along to someone
who could investigate. I don't know any other details, but I've asked the
poster to not post the exact location but to send it to either me or Chris
Rutkowski via netmail. If he does that, and it doesn't turn out that the entire
world has trampled all over the site already, I'll netmail you the location to
pass along too. The poster lives in the Philadelphia area.
Thanks.
* Forwarded from "UFO"
* Originally by Steve Bernheisel
* Originally to All
* Originally dated 28 May 1992, 20:56
For any interested UFO researchers that use this forum, about a day ago
several crop circles were discovered near my house, following a night of about
a dozen UFO sightings. Does anybody have a theory on how crop circles may be
connected to UFO's? Are they, in fact, landing sites? Please get back to me
on this if interested. Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
--
John Hicks - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction Theory?
Date: 2 Jun 92 06:31:00 GMT
> Rather thay are more likely technicians or, even,
> androids - either mechanical or organic.
> Just a thought.
"Greys" have been said to walk in lockstep, pivot as if in formation, or just
plain stop if confronted with a situation which requires a quick decision...as
if they were "robots."
I don't have any references...just bits and pieces of trivia.
jbh
--
John Hicks - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: MUFON Conference
Date: 2 Jun 92 06:56:39 GMT
Linda, I'm not sure yet whether I'll attend. Budd has been urging me to
go, but I haven't made up my mind yet. Incidentally, I think that Walt Andrus
and I are two of the last remaining people who attended the first one in
Peoria in 1970 (?). I wonder if there is anybody out there who might have
attended who is still involved with the subject of UFOs. It would be nice to
hear from him or her. Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: afglsc.span.nasa.gov!WEBB
Subject: Abd. Conference
Date: 5 Jun 92 15:15:37 GMT
From: WEBB@afglsc.span.nasa.gov
To: Kieth Basterfield
Kieth, I understand you are coming all the way to Boston for the Abd.
Conference! I am now planning to be there and to give a paper, I think soon
after yours on Tues. I wasn't sure until recently that I could attend; I
have been to 3 scientific meetings in the last 5 weeks! I will be talking
at the AC about hypnosis and abductions. It will be good to see you again.
Dave Pritchard has done a great job in getting money for the meeting and
listening to advice and inviting an excellent cross-section of researchers
(and abductees), including you, Jenny Randles, etc., to balance the ETH,
nuts-and-bolts attitude that is so popular in the US. Your comments to Dave
ala FPP and physically missing abductees hit the nail on the head. The
community must be careful to look at all and carefully catalog all of the
data, and not ignore that which does not fit a favored theory. See you
soon, Dave Webb.
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From: Pony.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Pony Godic)
Subject: Abduction Theory?
Date: 7 Jun 92 00:21:00 GMT
> I believe us to be a biological gene pool that they may need to
> probably revitalize themselves. That may be only one purpose
> but racial survival is a pretty powerful motive that would impel
> them to travel as far as necessary, to be able to improve their
> stock, if they have the means to make the trip.
> Also . . . .
Hi Richard,
The idea of a gene pool begs a very much bigger question. If we are a
gene pool for the aliens then we must have a common ancestor. If we
do indeed have a common ancestor, then we must have been seeded on
this planet, or maybe this is a former colony, penal or otherwise, (not
that such an idea is new in itself). I'm no biologist, but it would
seem that genetically we may have a sought after vigour due to the mixing of
races etc. On the other hand, we may be a crop providing genetic
material for other races on behalf of which the current aliens are
acting. Then again they may be looking for something specific. This
is all very interesting, but a little voice keeps telling me that with
our disease plagued lives, short life spans due to the ultimate
disease, old age, that there's very little we could possibly offer to
a race sophisticated enough to cross space and get here. Of course,
all we can do is guess. It's possible that the aliens are suffering
physical decline due to the very nature of their technological
sophistication. None of the above really rings true to me though, I
think whatever is going on, is extremely sophisticated.
> where a psychologist was taken on board a 'craft' and the
> occupants in this case were much more communicative and than are
> most other abduction cases we hear about and 'told' and showed
> this psychologist a lot of things about themselves and their
> purpose here. Hopkins, however, related only the barest
> outlines of this case as, in the chapter, he refused to publish
> everything so as to give other confirming evidence a chance to
> surface.
The above illustrates the adaptability of the alien interaction
thereby revealing the sophistication of their psychological approach.
Contrary to popular believe, I feel that the aliens have an ultra
sophisticated understanding of our psychological makeups re background
and current culture. I know this must sound like a phenomenal and
impossible idea, nevertheless, I feel that the evidence bears it out.
> Now here come the UFO's. Are they alien spaceships? Some
> evidence might strongly point in that direction, depending on
> who is asked that question. The fact remains that, if some of
> these 'unknowns' ARE such things, then for the FIRST time,
> perhaps in history, the balance of power on this world will be
> turned upside down and the English-European descended
> superpowers will suddenly find themselves in the same place as
> they found the New World 'Indians 500 years ago. We will then
> be the primitives confronting the Interstellar Superpower!
> Considering what we have done to each other here on Planet
> Earth, a contact like this, where, this time, WE are at a stark
> DISadvantage is not at all a pleasant event to contemplate.
> That is assuming that THEY conduct THEMSELVES toward us as we
> did toward the Indians back those many centuries . . . .
For me there is sufficient hard evidence in the tiny percentage of
paydirt cases to convince me that UFOs are intersellar machines capable of
phenomenal speed invisibility etc. I think they've been here
throughout recorded history and have constantly adapated themselves to
what we could assimilate at any given point in history. In this
century they've shown us hardware and themselves. We are currently on
the threshhold, re abductions, of something much bigger. Whatever it
is, I believe it will be geared towards minimal damage in us. I
believe the aliens are neither new nor limited in their understanding
of us. In the main we have misidentified, been caught up in mass
hysteria type waves of belief, not to mention hoaxed, all of which has
created a very thick, ultra convenient smoke screen behind which the
aliens continue to operate at a slow and steady pace.
> What THEY DO NOT DO can, in an indirect way become part of a
> possible answer. THEY may respect cultures other than THEIR own
> that are not as technically advanced as THEY are but THEY
> recognize have a right of their own to exist free from the kind
> of consequences that such contact can bring. (Hmmmm, I hope you
> can understand that paragraph. It's kind of clumsy but the best
In all honesty, I doubt anyone from an advanced and civilised society
would be able to actually respect us. Surely the ugliness of our
intolerance, the ferocity of our violence, the bloody-minded greed that
is overpopulating and devestating this planet are not worthy of
respect. Scientifically, the aliens may be clinically and
dispassionately documenting us, but why? Is there some seat of
universal government that is forced to take an interest in all
intelligent beings, no matter what stage of their development?
> We, perhaps may not be the only beings who develop
> inconsistently, that is, overdeveloping in certain areas while
> being behind in others. We know next to nothing about these
> beings' culture but I'm not of the opinion that because THEY can
> do something we at present cannot do -- cross interstellar space
> -- THEY are superbeings at everything else, also. Perhaps THEY
> have this inetrstellar technology but they may have worn
> themselves out by inbreeding. That's just a guess and there are
> biological difficulties with this concept, but that's for
> another message.
I agree that being able to cross space, perform impressive aerobatics,
abduct, experiment and generally behave inscrutably doesn't qualifies the
aliens as superbeings. We should always bear this in mind. Just
because we know nothing of their background, does not mean that the
assumption of superiority is correct. The development of mysical
assumptions just serves to further muddy up the waters. Like I said
earlier, the aliens don't have to make a smoke screen, we're doing
that for them.
Anyway, I'll close here, but I'd like to conclude by saying that all
the above is in the spirit of discussion, I have certain views, but
recognise that I can not validate any of them with evidence, so they
remain ideas that make sense to me, but which I recognise maybe
entirely wrong. I've never seen a UFO, let alone been abducted,
unfortunately!
Cheers, Pony.
--
Pony Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pony.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Marc Michalik)
Subject: Abduction Theory?
Date: 7 Jun 92 00:25:00 GMT
I agree with almost everything you said. I too think that they have,
as far as we are capable of comprehending, always been here. The
moderator would probably stop us but I'd bet we could have a darn
interesting conversation about religion, couldn't we?
--
Marc Michalik - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Missing Abductees
Date: 7 Jun 92 02:25:00 GMT
> If memory serves, Ray Fowler's 'Betty Andreasson' case had at least one
> instance where the abductee was observed by a family member to be still
> in bed during the time when the abduction was taking place. This was
> 'explained' as an imposture by one of the aliens to allay suspicion.
>
> I think we're going to have to make a place for 'non-missing' abductees
> in any comprehensive treatment of the phenomenon.
I also believe that Linda Howe is working with a couple of cases of this sort
as well.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jake,.Smith@p0.f26.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jake, Smith)
Subject: Biopsy
Date: 8 Jun 92 01:37:00 GMT
I have read that Aleins take biopys of your calf because it heels
very fast. Is this true or is it a figment of someones mind.
--
Jake, Smith - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jake,.Smith@p0.f26.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Davis)
Subject: Re: Abduction Theory?
Date: 5 Jun 92 20:05:00 GMT
Your thought is well stated. Certainly I have no basis for
disagreement. The main thing is for researchers to remember that we
may not be seeing that with which we are dealing. The obvious parallel
would be our own mechanical space probes. Were we Martians and ran
across a robot lander from Earth, we might be impressed by its actions.
Perhaps amused or perhaps afraid, but, after it clearly did not attack
us, we would probably allow it to decay at its leisure.
While we tend to feel intervention is occuring, the majority of
people feel that abduction cases are at best of passing interest and,
like the prescribed decaying robot, should be left to their own design.
Additionally, we do not know what reality is for our assumed aliens.
That which we call dreams, intuition, etc., may be their reality.
That, of course, opens an entirely new can of worms - in which,
hopefully, we will not find our aliens.
--
Tom Davis - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: MUFON Conference
Date: 8 Jun 92 00:23:00 GMT
Hi David,
Here's hoping you can make it to Albuquerque!
You mentioned attending the first MUFON conf. in 1970. Funny, I didn't
know anything about UFO's then, although I was aware of the Betty and
Barney Hill Story because their story created a big sensation when it
came out.
Best regards,
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Abduction Theory?
Date: 9 Jun 92 06:12:00 GMT
Hi Marc,
In light of some of your recent discussions with Pony, do you think
it's possible (if the aliens have always been around) that they could
have been responsible for the decline of the Roman Empire and the
sudden, incredible power of Christianity?
Thanks,
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Intruders
Date: 6 Jun 92 16:43:00 GMT
Thanks for your comments on the min series. No doubt it will make its
way down to Australia in several months time. It will be interesting
to see what effect it has here. I've just been preparing a conference
paper on the Australian experience and have reviewed our "missing
time", "abduction-like" and "abduction" cases. On the strict
definition used by CUFOS for an abduction we rate 20 cases from over
the years. The UFORA network covers the country fairly well, and I
compile our bi-monthly "Reearch Digest" covering incoming reports.
Abduction reports have all but dried up of late-no new ones and no one
reporting older abductions. So we will have a clear measure of how
Intruders affects the population in terms of reports coming up.
UFORA conducted a nationa wide search for abduction accounts using the
mass media some while ago-and almost nothing came to light. We are
very fortunate at the moment to be able to research without mass media
interest, e.g. we have no abductee appearing on nation wide TV chat
shows, no best selling authors talking about the subject etc. On the
opposit side, this means we are unable to attract the interest of
health professionals. But in balance, we can research quietly at our
own pace. I wonder if Intruders will bring in a rush of cases? If so,
we do not have the health/therapist professionals to handle it.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Sleep research 1
Date: 6 Jun 92 16:55:00 GMT
Over the last few years I have been researching various aspects of
sleep and the relationships some sleep phenomenon may have on
abduction and UFO research, particularly the bedroom invaders type
material-noting that many abductions/close encounters happen in the
bedroom often on the sleep/awake interface.
So, the following comments are intended to get you thinking, and
diving for your nearest reference materials on sleep.
1. Sleep paralysis: Most people I have asked about their sleep habits
can recall at least one instance of sleep paralysis. Here they
find themselves paralysed when either falling asleep, or wake during
the night to find themselves paralysed. Nothing to do with abductions,
except...some people when awaken paralysed, feel a sense of a
"presence" in the room. Some may even see something present.
Current medical knowledge, availaible in the medical literature, is
that sleep paralysis where your muscles appear not to be unbder your
control, is due to the appearance of REM(rapid eye movement-dream
sleep) intruding into you when you are in fact awake. Weird! The
reason you don't jump out of bed and act out the motions occurring in
your dreams is because your brain reduces the toning of your muscles
during dreaming (REM sleep) so you are immobile. Sleep paralaysis is
this same action but you are actually awake. Go back and read some of
Whitley Striber's recolelctions in Communion in light of this
knowledge.
US medical surveys suggest sleep paralysis runs in families over
several generations-if you've got it,m chances are good your mother
and father, grandparents etc experienced sleep paralysis. The rported
incidence in the literature is about 3-6% of the US population. My own
surveys would suggest almost everyone has experienced it at least once
in a lifetime.
More next message.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Sleep research 2
Date: 6 Jun 92 17:05:00 GMT
2. Sleep narcolepsy: Symptoms are attacks of sleep, even during the
day when you are wide awake, feling weak, sleep paralysis and
hypnagogic imagery of various types. Hypnagogic imagery, can take
various forms including patches of light rhough to complex "real as
real"scenes played out before your eyes. Here a peson actually,
instead of falling asleep through sleep stages 1-4 goes straight from
being awake to REM-dream sleep. Research has shown a cause associated
with the brains neurtransmitting chemicals.
3. Sleep walking: Abductees talk of drifting out to a UFO. Sleep
walking ovccurs to normal, healthy people with a degree of anxiety.
The individual is by definiton and brain wave analysis "asleep."
However, they walk around with eyes open (while "asleep") ,
manouevering around objects in their path, can make coffee whiulst in
this state, hang curtains (from my own surveys) etc. How can they be
both "awake" and "asleep" simultaneously? Relevance to abductions:
indicating unusual states of consciousness we accept as genuine, and
very importantly most sleepwalkers when told of their exploits by
anyone who sees them usually has no memory of them the next day!
4. Night terrors: Imagine waking up in the night screaming, with your
pulse racing 160 beats a minute, drenched in sweat and terrifying
anyone sleeping with you. This happens to some people. It occurs
mainly during the early parts of the night, and these terrifyiong
epiosdes are almsot never remembered the next day!
I'm not suggesting that the above are explanations for abductions,
only that there are numerous examples of alteredt states of
consciousness which can involve little or no memory recall on the part
of the indviduals who experience them. Some aspects of abductions
certainly do bear on these sleep phenomenon and therefore should be
researched, published in UFO literature, and discussed. Very few
researchers seem to know about such phenomenon, and that is why I
bring them to your attention.
As I have mentioned before, I believe we, UFOlogists need to openly
research such things, and we should be the ones, eciding if they bear
on abduction research. If we do not, then the sceptics certainly will
do so.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Non-missing abductees
Date: 7 Jun 92 17:44:00 GMT
Thank you to those who commented about the importance of also looking
at abduction events where people were physically present when an
abduction occurred. Naturally, this does not automatically invoke a
psychological explanation for the abduction-perhaps their mind was
taken somewhere. However, it does give us food for thought.
I would like to ask anyone else who has come across such cases to post
detials here, and particularly a source for the information, so that
we can all read the original data.
Does anyone have a more detailed source for the cases Roger Black
recalled?
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Intruders
Date: 11 Jun 92 06:17:00 GMT
Hi Keith,
I wonder myself if INTRUDERS had any effect on the general population
here. Probably most people don't believe it, and faithful readers of
Paranet thought some parts were hokey.
Keep up the good work!
Linda Bird
--
Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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