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Abduction Digest Number 55
Abduction Digest, Number 55
Monday, April 6th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Re: Abduction Detection
abductions
Book
Re: Abduction detection
Re: Abduction detection
Abduction Detection
Abduction Detection
Abduction Detection
Rocky Mountain UFO Conference
Dave Jacobs New Book
Research
Overweight?
abduction research
_Secret Life_ reviewed
Re: Research
Re: Overweight?
Re: Overweight?
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From: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Davis)
Subject: Re: Abduction Detection
Date: 30 Mar 92 06:44:00 GMT
The problem with such a device is that short of integrating it into a
vital organ wherein removal would be fatal to the host, how would you
make it non-detachable? Indeed, how would you integrate it without
killing the host? I suspect that a race capable of inter stellar
travel, the abduction of humans, and all the rest we sometimes
attribute to the yet-unproven invaders, would have no difficulty in
detecting a removing anything we could implant ourselves.
--
Tom Davis - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: abductions
Date: 2 Apr 92 03:00:02 GMT
Hello Keith,
I think there is another significant dilemma with hypnotic
regression that has not been addressed since David Jacobs returned
as moderator of this echo. Specifically, if an individual comes to
a hypnotherapist for the purpose of learning more about their
"abduction", has not the seed of potential fantasy already been
sown in their minds? They are not seeking to find out *if* they
were actually abducted - of that they are already convinced. They
are seeking details of the event(s).
A related question that comes to mind, is how many abductees have
pursued therapy simply because they feel out of sorts, or that
something "unconventional" may have occurred to them. There is no
musing that anything as bizarre as an abduction might have
occurred. The Hill case is of course a classic example of this
genre. Neither Dr. Simon, nor the Hill's had any inkling of what
was going to be revealed. Nowadays, both the patient *and*
therapist *anticipate* an abduction to be disclosed. This element
of expectation would seem to decisively prejudice the outcome,
don't you think?
I still am having a great deal of difficulty with David Jacobs
conviction that virtually none of the abductees he has written
about in his book _Secret Life_ are perchance suffering from some
form of psychological irregularity. Jacobs recently stated on an
American television show that he conducts a 1 1/2 hour long
preliminary interview with his subjects prior to accepting them.
If anything psychologically anomalous is apparent, he refers them
to proper counseling. I am certainly not qualified in this area,
but I do not comprehend how an individual's psyche can be
accurately assessed in an hour and one half. It could take *years*
to unsheathe well camouflaged aberrant behavior.
Changing the subject, will you be attending the conference that
David Pritchard is organizing this June at MIT? It sounds most
intriguing. I would love to attend, but unfortunately admission is
by invitation only, and I am not on the list. Hopefully, the
conference proceedings will be available to us. Jenny Randles has
written that she will be at MIT, and will also speak at a
conference at the University of Nebraska in May. She will be
stopping in Chicago for a day or two at which time we shall try to
meet.
I enjoyed reading your article, _Implants_ in the recent issue of
_IUR_. Very well done... but how do you ever find the time for all
that writing? You must be one of those lucky individuals that can
get by on 4 hrs of sleep. Anyway, keep up the superb work.
Take care,
Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Book
Date: 2 Apr 92 17:11:00 GMT
Dave:
You say the 40% overweight figure "probably" shows up in the abductee
population as well; are you aware of whether or not a study has been done on
this? Ray Maurer and I were discussing this aspect just last night. We spoke
with the girl he called you about, and she is slightly overweight as well.
This makes three of the four people I've dealt with (the fourth is almost
painfully skinny). An admittedly very small sample, but it got me wondering.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Abduction detection
Date: 2 Apr 92 17:13:00 GMT
Dave (and all):
Anybody have any suggestions as to how to hook up a motion detector to
trigger a VCR? We have access to motion detectors, all we need now is a
schematic.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Abduction detection
Date: 2 Apr 92 17:21:00 GMT
John:
Ray Maurer and I have been discussing implementing this very concept. If we
gave you some info on our motion detector and our camcorder or camera-VCR
setup, do you think you could shoot us a schematic of how it should be
hooked together?
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 1 Apr 92 20:48:00 GMT
JP> if the monitor registers the telemetry device at 60,000
JP> ft., well... <grin>
Couldn't argue with that very much.
JP> And, at least
JP> for me, it would be more important than a photograph any
JP> day...
Yes.....somewhat more difficult to fake.
JP> and the medical/psychiatric community
JP> should be embarassed and ashamed that a professor of
JP> history had to go out to the fringes to codify something
JP> that _they_ should have already been focused on and
JP> addressing...
The medical community, in general, suffers from their group mindset even
when they disagree; plus, I think the "gatekeepers" keep the fringe stuff
out of professional journals.
A while back I talked with a very prominent local psychiatrist about the
abduction phenomenon; he said he'd heard of it and wondered what was going
on, but that he'd *never* seen any substantial information on the phenomenon
upon which to begin serious consideration. And this guy is practically the
"dean" of psychiatry in this area.
He's open-minded, but oddball stories from space alien magazines are
pretty useless to him.
I think Dr. Jacobs used his abilities as a historian to great benefit in
his abduction investigations; it's a much different viewpoint than the usual
doctor-patient relationship.
jbh
--
John Hicks - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 2 Apr 92 18:39:00 GMT
> The problem with such a device is that short of integrating it into a
> vital organ wherein removal would be fatal to the host, how would you
> make it non-detachable?
Yes, that's the difficult part.
> would have no difficulty in detecting a removing anything we could implant
> ourselves.
That's a key right there. If an abductee has a telemetry bracelet or whatever,
which the person couldn't feasibly remove, if it vanishes, to some extent that
would be "proof."
jbh
--
John Hicks - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 4 Apr 92 02:03:00 GMT
> JP> and the medical/psychiatric community
> JP> should be embarassed and ashamed that a professor of
> JP> history had to go out to the fringes to codify something
> JP> that _they_ should have already been focused on and
> JP> addressing...
>
> The medical community, in general, suffers from their group mindset
> even when they disagree; plus, I think the "gatekeepers" keep the fringe
> stuff out of professional journals.
> A while back I talked with a very prominent local psychiatrist about
> the abduction phenomenon; he said he'd heard of it and wondered what was
> going on, but that he'd *never* seen any substantial information on the
> phenomenon upon which to begin serious consideration. And this guy is
> practically the "dean" of psychiatry in this area.
> He's open-minded, but oddball stories from space alien magazines are
> pretty useless to him.
> I think Dr. Jacobs used his abilities as a historian to great benefit
> in his abduction investigations; it's a much different viewpoint than
> the usual doctor-patient relationship.
We recently had a psychiatrist join our ranks in MICAP. We met with him for
lunch and asked him various questions about the abduction phenomenon. We were
surprised with the answers. This person has been practicing a number of
years. He deals with the general community as well as two mental hospitals in
the Denver area. He stated that in all of his years of working with patients,
he has never heard one claim of abduction.
Sheldon brings up a very good point regarding the pre-disposition of the
alleged abductee seeking out a hypnotherapist or doctor in psychology for the
exploration of a possible abduction experience. If the alleged abductee has
already suspected an abduction, it requires further study to determine alleged
abduction experiences among a random sampling of the general population to
determine the numbers reporting such an event. According to recent findings
released by Hopkins, after conducting a Roper poll, it is believed that as
many as 17% of the population could be an abductee. This translates into an
incredible number of potential abductees among the general population. I find
it quite unusual that a psychiatrist would not have at least one person in his
client base telling him this story. Although one psychiatrist's testimony
does not invalidate Hopkins' findings, it is worthy of study to make some
determination based upon random sampling.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble
Subject: Rocky Mountain UFO Conference
Date: 4 Apr 92 20:11:52 GMT
From: sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
I attended this last year and was suprised to find that a large
proportion of the attendees were contactees/abductees.
I hope to attend again this year. Are any of the other Abductions
contributors planning to go? It is in Laramie last week of June.
Steve.
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From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble
Subject: Dave Jacobs New Book
Date: 4 Apr 92 20:12:06 GMT
From: sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Hi David,
Your book seems to have been very well received in the US.
Are there any plans to release it in the UK? If so, do you
have any details like dates, publisher?
Regards
Steve Gamble
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Research
Date: 3 Apr 92 02:33:00 GMT
My apologies for not posting for a while-I am still waiting for my
copy of David Jacob's book so cannot comment on this yet. Also, I have
been busy on other aspects of UFOlogy.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Overweight?
Date: 5 Apr 92 04:04:01 GMT
In a message to David Jacobs <02-March-92 10:11>
Jim Speiser wrote:
JS> You say the 40% overweight figure "probably" shows up in the
JS> abductee population as well; are you aware of whether or not a
JS> study has been done on this?
I am not aware of any substantiating inquiries into this aspect,
but from my limited experience, it certainly seems greater than
40%. I'll carry this thread a step further to state that it also
appears as though a disproportionate number of overweight women
"see" UFO's. I base this observation on the many photographs and
videotapes I have examined. This overweight state appears to hold
true for female abductees only. What do you think?
JS> This makes three of the four people I've dealt with (the fourth
JS> is almost painfully skinny). An admittedly very small sample,
JS> but it got me wondering.
Me too, Jim...
-- Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: abduction research
Date: 5 Apr 92 04:06:02 GMT
In a message to John Hicks <03-March-92 19:03>
Michael Corbin wrote:
MC> I find it quite unusual that a psychiatrist would not have at
MC> least one person in his client base telling him this
MC> (abduction) story. Although one psychiatrist's testimony does
MC> not invalidate Hopkins' findings, it is worthy of study to make
MC> some determination based upon random sampling.
Actually Mike, this evidence does seem to be the rule rather than
the exception. I was just speaking with Mark Rodeghier about this
the other night, and he agreed that we just don't see abduction
experiences being exposed spontaneously during the course of
psychotherapy. It is virtually unheard of, except for a mere
handful of cases. If this circumstance is in fact true, the
implications are obvious.
-- Sheldon
--
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: _Secret Life_ reviewed
Date: 6 Apr 92 04:35:02 GMT
Hello David,
The following review of your book _Secret Life_, was published in
The Chicago Tribune newspaper, 30-March-92, and was written by Lynn
Van Matre, staff writer. I thought it might interest you.
.................................................................
ALIENS FROM SPACE 'ARE NOT HERE TO HELP US'
Abducted by aliens! It's the stuff of tabloid headlines and comedy
routines, conjuring up images of science-fiction films and big-eyed
beings. But for the more than 60 people whose experiences figure in
David Jacobs' engrossing _Secret Life_, it's no joke. It's
nightmarish reality.
Jacobs, a history professor at Pennsylvania's Temple University and
a UFO researcher for the last 25 years, acknowledges that the
concept is "inherently unbelievable". Still, he contends, the
similarities of scores of firsthand accounts, most obtained by
Jacobs from subjects under hypnosis, men, women and children
describe being taken forcibly from their homes and cars (generally
at night), transported aboard spacecraft and subjected to a variety
of medical examinations. Descriptions of the abductors are often
strikingly similar; so are the procedures, which generally involve
reproductive organs and leave physical traces such as scars. Some
abductees later discover small metallic balls in their nasal or
sinus cavities.
Are these people victims of mass hysteria? Attention-craving
charlatans out to make a buck? Obviously, the possibility of mental
illness or fraud is present in all reported UFO encounters. But
these abductees report no problems with mental instability; many
holding demanding jobs in law, medicine, education, and the media.
(Names have been changed in the interests of privacy, but correct
ages and occupations are given). What's more, according to Jacobs,
who addresses the possibilities of fraud and psychological problems
at length, most of these abductees are not familiar with UFO
literature. They make no attempt to capitalize on their experience
in terms of money or fame; instead, they devoutly wish it had never
happened.
Why are these abductions happening? Jacobs speculates that aliens
may need humans to help them produce other beings via the
harvesting of eggs and sperm. While the aliens are not necessarily
malevolent, "They are not here to help us," Jacobs concludes.
.................................................................
Van Marte also critiqued Ellen Crystall's new book _Silent
Invasion: The Shocking Discoveries of a UFO researcher_, far less
favorably than your work I might add.
Take care, -- Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Research
Date: 6 Apr 92 05:44:00 GMT
Hi Keith,
Your article came,and I thank you very much. I have the Mufon material
ready that I think you want, and will send it to you this week.
Thanks again,
Linda
--
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Overweight?
Date: 6 Apr 92 05:48:00 GMT
Hi Sheldon,
It is interesting that you bring up the overweight factor in regards to
female abductees. I was able to meet Debbie Tomey of Budd Hopkins'
book INTRUDERS and she is on the plump side.
Regards,
Linda
--
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Overweight?
Date: 6 Apr 92 06:13:00 GMT
My only experiences thus far have been with female abductees (and one male
whom we agreed is probably not one). So I'm not in a position to judge at
this point.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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