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Abduction Digest Number 37
Abduction Digest, Number 37
Wednesday, January 1st 1992
Today's Topics:
Re: abductions
Parallel research
Strieber
Abduction Research
Re: Non-Terrestrials as Gods
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Abduction Research
Re: Non-Terrestrials as Gods
Abduction research
Abduction research
reply to your message
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Abduction Research
Abduction research
Abduction Research
Strieber
Re: abductions
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From: Bob.Martin@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Martin)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 20 Dec 91 23:27:00 GMT
Carl, about fifteen years ago, I engaged a roommate service, and wound
up sharing an apt. with the president of the NY Theosophical Society!
So I am somewhat familiar with Mdme. Blavatsky & her followers. My
impression is that most of the validity in Theosophical thought is
drawn from Eastern sources. I later worked for Samuel Weiser Books, a
firm that publishes and distributes occult works, and as a result
became aquainted with, and to some extent involved in, such varied
philosophies as Gurdjieffism, Crowleyism, Sufism (the
intellectual/philosophical strain, not the ecstatics), Buddhism (left
hand path) (that's a joke - I'm not certain people who use that term
know what it means), and have some knowledge of quite a few other
off-center philosophies. What I saiin my earlier message is only
something that I arrived at by logic, after hearing too much of this:
"I don't believe in God, but I do believe in some kind of force," or "I
don't believe in God because I think everything can be explained by the
laws of nature."
It bothers me that such people are to intellectually timid to use the
word "God" to refer to that force, or to those rules. The problem, I
think, is that today's religions were formulated at a time when science
as such did not exist, and the social purposes that we now give to
science were the province of religion; dogma's interplay with mystery
has since been replaced by fact and theory...to my mind, these are the
same.
Thanks for the note...despite my one-time proximity to the NYTS pres, I
doubt if I could have come close to such a succinct summation of their
principles.
--
Bob Martin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Parallel research
Date: 20 Dec 91 04:52:00 GMT
The other day I came across a book by R A Gardner (1991) titled "Sex
Abuse Hysteria:Salam Witch Trials Revisited." Published by Creative
Therapeutics, Cresskill. Gardner is listed as a Clinical Professor of
Child Psychiatry at Columbia University. Two portions of it on pages
99-100 caught my eye, being relevant to abduction research.
"A recent development in the field of psychotherapeutic psychitry is
the "uncovering" of early sex abuse that the patient never realized
took place. This has been very much in vogue during the last few
years. Sometimes the process starts with the psychiatrist "suspecting"
sex abuse on the basis of allegedly derivative statements and symptoms
that are "suggestive" of early childhood sex abuse. When the patient
expresses puzzlement and even disbelief, he (she) is encouraged to
enter into a more meaningful and deeper (sometimes on the couch)
therapy in order to "uncover" these lost memories. Human beings,
suggestible and gullible animals that we are, are likely to comply
with the psychitrist's prediction and provide the psychiatrist with
the "lost" material." Later on page 100:-
"Interestingly, an even more recent development is the suspicion by
patients-arising within themselves-that they may have been sexually
abused and were not aware of it."
Interestingly, these developments have occurred in abduction research
in recent times. Have you had an unexplained nosebleed, dreams of
aliens? Then perhaps you should consider regression to determnine if
you have been abducted!
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Strieber
Date: 20 Dec 91 05:16:00 GMT
Thanks for the reply. Farewell Strieber. Who will come along next?
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 22 Dec 91 03:33:01 GMT
In a message to Keith Basterfield <19-Dec-91 08:34>
Jim Speiser wrote:
JS> My opinion of abductions, based on what I've read and now what
JS> I've experienced first hand (through my subjects), is that we
JS> seem to have something here, but we still have a long way to go
JS> before we eliminate psychological causes.
Very well put Jim, with "seem" being the keyword. What's
interesting to note is the fact that so many of us appear to be
unequivocally convinced of the corporeal reality of abductions,
even though we do not yet possess equally convincing
confirmation of this actuality.
It is my perception, through the admittedly modest number of
individuals I have worked with, that the etiology of the
abduction experience can, in a statistically significant number
of cases, be traced to varying degrees of psychopathological
affliction and fantasy proneness. Although I am certainly not
qualified professionally, I vehemently disagree with clinicians
such as Dr. Rima Laibow, who asserts she has found very few
deviations from the accepted psychological "norm" in her
subjects. By no means am I stating that all abduction cases are
the result of externalized metaphor, but I do believe that
many, if not most, can be resolved through psychological
mechanisms.
JS> The only thing pointing to objective reality is the correlation
JS> between accounts.
The situation gets complicated here too Jim. It depends on what
you mean by "correlation between accounts". I know there's no
such thing as a ufological virgin today, so correlations such as
ashen gray bug-eyed beings, blue beams, and multicolored lights
just don't make it for me. If we were to begin seeing multiple
subjects world-wide drawing complex glyphs that matched exactly,
that would be a great deal more persuading evidence. I know that
a few researchers such as Hopkins, Jacobs, and Rhodeghier claim
to be privy to such data, but until I can make my own
confirmation, I can only regard this as hearsay
JS> I might use this message to ask any and all, what IS the
JS> current state of abduction research, as far as is known?
Obviously, not enough work is being done, primarily due to a
lack of funding. Many abductees go without treatment simply
because they can not afford it. Others choose to forego therapy
due to the social stigma often associated with psychological
counseling. Research organization and structure is deficient,
although improving markedly. The secretive nature of the
abduction researcher has got to change. If I hear one more
time..."Sheldon, I'm working with a bona-fide abductee - but I
can't reveal any of the details to you yet"...I'm going to put
my head through my CRT! <g>
Yes Jim, we've got a long way to go, but we're getting there. I
hope Keith Basterfield, Mark Rhodeghier, Dave Jacobs <and the
rest of you listeners out there> will jump in here and keep this
thread alive. Thanks Jim, and Thanks Keith for taking the
initiative.
Take care,
Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Non-Terrestrials as Gods
Date: 22 Dec 91 03:17:00 GMT
Hi Morgan,
If you'd like to see some good theories on non-terrestrials as gods for
ancient people, look into any one of the 5 books written by Zecharia
Sitchin. I'm currently reading Book One of "The Earth Chronicles" and
it is excellent.
Let me know if you want a brief paragraph on these books.
Regards,
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 22 Dec 91 03:28:00 GMT
Hi Clark,
You said something like this regarding aliens: We have little proof
that they are non-terrestrial, but they might be inter-dimensional.
Sorry, have never gotten the hang of quoting on this BBS...
But my SERIOUS question is: What if they are from another dimension?
Are there planets in other dimensions? Can anyone tell? Does anyone
know? Does that complicate things more if Aliens are from another
dimension, rather than another solar system? How does one get to
another dimension and back?
Take your time to answer... <:-)
More Merry Eggnogs to you,
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Morgan.David@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Morgan David)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 20 Dec 91 02:12:00 GMT
Whose to say whether or not extraterrestrial and extradimensional can
be equated.
M
--
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From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 23 Dec 91 04:24:33 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <21 Dec 91 20:33> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:
SW> It is my perception, through the admittedly modest number of
SW> individuals I have worked with, that the etiology of the
SW> abduction experience can, in a statistically significant number
SW> of cases, be traced to varying degrees of psychopathological
SW> affliction and fantasy proneness. Although I am certainly not
SW> qualified professionally, I vehemently disagree with clinicians
SW> such as Dr. Rima Laibow, who asserts she has found very few
SW> deviations from the accepted psychological "norm" in her
SW> subjects. By no means am I stating that all abduction cases are
SW> the result of externalized metaphor, but I do believe that
SW> many, if not most, can be resolved through psychological
SW> mechanisms.
Sheldon: Do you have any clinical analysis to back you up on this, or are you
going on your own perceptions? Not arguing with you, mind you. I will reserve
further comment for now, but I think we'd better take this up in RESEARCH.
>JS> The only thing pointing to objective reality is the correlation
>JS> between accounts.
SW> The situation gets complicated here too Jim. It depends on what
SW> you mean by "correlation between accounts". I know there's no
SW> such thing as a ufological virgin today, so correlations such as
SW> ashen gray bug-eyed beings, blue beams, and multicolored lights
SW> just don't make it for me.
While I tend to agree, there IS more to it than that, as I'm sure you're aware.
There were many correlations before Communion, before The Andreasson Affair,
and before Close Encounters. Also, the correlations are not just in description
of the aliens, but as Bullard has pointed out, in the order of events, which is
still not widely known. And there are the "hidden" elements, which Hopkins et
al are sitting on, and they are not just limited to exoglyphs. I was made aware
of one of these elements before taking on a case, and damned if it didn't crop
up as predicted. So while there is perhaps not enough here to go to the
National Academy of Sciences with, there is enough to justify serious inquiry.
SW> subjects world-wide drawing complex glyphs that matched exactly,
SW> that would be a great deal more persuading evidence. I know that
SW> a few researchers such as Hopkins, Jacobs, and Rhodeghier claim
SW> to be privy to such data, but until I can make my own
SW> confirmation, I can only regard this as hearsay
Dave should be joining us shortly; he may even be reading this. If so, you
might consider contacting him or Mark Rodeghier to be brought into the loop. I
myself have not seen more than a small sample of exoglyphs, not enough to make
up my mind either, but I have been assured that they will be made public in the
(near?) future.
>JS> I might use this message to ask any and all, what IS the
>JS> current state of abduction research, as far as is known?
SW> Obviously, not enough work is being done, primarily due to a
SW> lack of funding. Many abductees go without treatment simply
SW> because they can not afford it. Others choose to forego therapy
SW> due to the social stigma often associated with psychological
SW> counseling. Research organization and structure is deficient,
SW> although improving markedly. The secretive nature of the
SW> abduction researcher has got to change. If I hear one more
SW> time..."Sheldon, I'm working with a bona-fide abductee - but I
SW> can't reveal any of the details to you yet"...I'm going to put
SW> my head through my CRT! <g>
There is every reason to keep identities a secret, but no reason that I can see
to keep mere account details under wraps, as long as there is nothing to
identify the percipient.
SW> Yes Jim, we've got a long way to go, but we're getting there. I
SW> hope Keith Basterfield, Mark Rhodeghier, Dave Jacobs <and the
SW> rest of you listeners out there> will jump in here and keep this
SW> thread alive. Thanks Jim, and Thanks Keith for taking the
SW> initiative.
Ditto.
Like I say, some of the issues raised are going to have to be taken up in
RESEARCH.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Morgan.David@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Morgan David)
Subject: Re: Non-Terrestrials as Gods
Date: 24 Dec 91 00:46:00 GMT
I believe I know the book you are referring too. I will check the
series out when I get back to Toronto
--
Morgan David - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 24 Dec 91 03:44:00 GMT
Thanks for your case study Sheldon. Where to start? It is interesting
that we are now discovering that abductions are not "simple." Many of
them are lifelong interactions between a person and entities. In this
case, numerous episodes of "missing time" and visiting entities are
given. After digging into fantasy-prone personality research and
noting the correlation with childhood abuse, this lady's abuse history
is horrific.
So, could we argue a psychological explanation? Her mind splits to
cope with the traumas of sexual abuse-along the lines of multiple
personality victims? Or do we argue reality level event? It all did
really happen? I guess firstly I'd like to see a person recounting
this story be willing to undergo a full psychological analysis,
including FPP test protocols to see how she fares.
Were there any paranormal events in her life, and if so to what
degree? It seems that many abductees have above average interaction
with the paranormal, e.g poltergeists.
Anyway, thanks for the data Sheldon. I'm going away to ponder it some
more.
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 24 Dec 91 03:57:00 GMT
Thanks for your thoughts Jim. It is good to see qualified health
professionals getting involved in the field, it can only benefit
research as a whole. One of the reasons Bob Bartholomew and I wanted
to get a piece on abductions into a peer reviewed Psych journal was
to stimulate some minds into staryting to look into it. So we were
glad to see our piece "UFO abductees and Contactees: Psychopathology
or Fantasy Proneness" appear in the July edition (1991 Vol 22 No 3 pp
215-222) of the US Journal "Professional Psychology: Research and
Practice." Some 3 years ago Budd Hopkins in reply to an article by
Sociologist Bartholomew and I, suggested we get out of our armchairs
and interview some abductees. Easier said than done in Australia.
Since then I have been involved with perhaps 20 Australian cases-used
regression in some and not in others. The two cases I have studied in
details are incredibly complex, lifelong accounts of interactions
with aliens. Both ladies, were sexually abused as children and carry
those scars with them today. The case I have done most research on I
wrote up in IUR Mar/Apr 91. The data indicates a mixed
subjective/objective explanation-not simply one way. I have worked
with people as both counsellor and researcher, as you say,
particularly when there is no one else to turn to. On the subject of
implants I've just conducted a literature review for an article I've
submitted to the IUR. Lots of hearsay, damm little evidence. However,
the Richard proce case is intriguing. Has anyone gotten a report from
David Pritchard at MIT who analysed the implant? Would make a good
interview article for UFO Magazine, Omni or IUR.
UFORA published a short catalogue of abduction and misisng time
abstracts last April. If you'd like me to mail you a copy, please give
an address. Same for anyone else who reads this.
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: reply to your message
Date: 28 Dec 91 21:48:00 GMT
You wrote to me:
"Did I say that? No, I didn't. And I think it is shameful of you to use
such a cheap shot in replying to me. (and it WAS a VERY CHEAP shot). This
is the same as asking me "When did you stop beating your wife?"
I didn't mean to make a 'cheap shot'. I guess I was looking for a good
rebuttal from you.
>What I'd REALLY like for you to state is what your REAL AGENDA
>in posting here is. If it is to contribute factual information
>or rational analysis, then please join us and do so. If you are
>here to bible thump, allow me to recommend any of a dozen fine
>Christian echos that would love to have your posts.
>
>I'm still waiting to hear something from you other than unfounded
>assertions based on your religious beliefs. I'm tired of wasting
>bandwidth on this business. Religious discussions ALWAYS end in
>a flamefest of the
>"my God and beat up your God" variety, and have no place in a serious
>discussion such as the one we are attempting to carry on.
I understand your concerns (think I have responded to a few people who
were merely interested in changing my point of view in a similar
manner) but I was truly looking for information and asking the type of
questions I am asking is often a good way of smoking out _if_ there
_is_ any information to be found.
UFO's in general have fascinated me since the age of nine. I have read
a lot of books - most I could get my hands on.. And the abduction seems
a rather interesting occurance within the general UFO category. The
Barney and Betty Hill book seems the flagship of the fleet as far as
documented information although later information seemed to
indicate that some facts had been left out which would have, if
included, shed some doubt on the creditability of this incident.
It's just that in all my reading, I have not come across any
information which leads me to believe that aliens have truly visited
our planet. I do believe, as taught in our astronomy class, that there
could be as many as 1400 planets in our solar system alone which would
have the ability to support carbon based life (life as we know it).
By the way, I have, in the 29 years I have been a Catholic, questioned
the Catholic church much worse than you have seen me question things
here... and have always received excellent answers which is why I am
still a Catholic today (converted at the age of 18).
And I would not be welcome on the Bible echos (some of which I am
accessing already). My brand of Christianity, Catholicism, is not
popular among fundamentalists and much Catholic bashing goes on there..
probably much more Catholic bashing than UFO bashing!
Sorry if I offended you... I am just searching for information.
{sue} {Cheese Whiz BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400 baud}
--
Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 28 Dec 91 21:55:00 GMT
>SW> It has been observed by psychologists that people who have a
>SW> religious orientation tend to deal with disability and age better
>SW> than those who don't. Also, Bill W., the founder of AA makes a
>SW> rather impressive case that atheistic beliefs caused alot of his
>SW> problems. People who join AA and embrace the Deistic orientation
>SW> tend to deal with their lives better than they did before joining.
>
>But, of course! They are so well hypnotized. The same can be said
>of people on Thorazine! AA gives STRUCTURE, as does religion. Nothing
>really wrong with that, particularly since the average IQ is 100
>(a tautology, I know!
>:-) All you got to do is joing this neat family of people who will
>listen to you, nurture you, and understand your terrible problems
>with reality. Besides, if you believe it's a disease, then it really
>isn't your responsibility anyway. Only problem is when these folks
>demand everyone else pop these Thorazine pills, too. Frankly, I';d
>ratehr be kidnapped by a grey.
Sorry but your 'average IQ' of a religionist is off. For one thing,
over 60% of MENSA, a high IQ society, claims a belief in God! And in
reading some of the literature within the Catholic church, you find
that many many highly intelligent people have chosen to be deists and
even Christians.
Thorazine is not a good comparison either... it dulls your mentality
while people who have converted to Christianity report sharpened
senses. And Christians who feel that God will forgive them, _can_
really take responsibility for their actions unlike others who must
hide from the reality of many of their actions due to the pain
involved.
I am not saying anyone should run right out and convert but to post a
message such as yours, is not 'the look' either... I felt compelled to
correct your rather superficial and unknowledgible view of
Christianity!
{sue} {Cheese Whiz BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400 baud}
--
Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 28 Dec 91 21:57:00 GMT
>What you have stated are your unsubstantiated opinions. How am I
>to refute them? Your response still lacks specific evidence. I
>would suggest that any
>"evidence" based on an unprovable "belief system" is going to be
>called suspect by any scientifically based researcher, myself
included.
>
>It is not my place to "refute" a charge which has had no evidence
>presented.
> Your citation to the AA founder is an interesting account of another
>single person's experiences. It does NOT show basis in fact.
This seems evasive which leads me to believe there _is_ no good
argument for 'your side' other than unproven anecdoctal evidence from
highly impressionable, emotional witnesses. OK.. that tells me some
information also. Thanks...
--
Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 28 Dec 91 22:04:00 GMT
>There is currently more observational evidence to support the existence
>of UFos as a phenomenon worthy of study than there is observational
>evidence to support the existence of an alleged being, a supreme
>being...
'observational evidence' is considered to be scientific observation,
using the scientific method and double blind studies etc. If you are
talking 'observers' then there are actually far more observers who
reported seeing God in various ways over a period of 5000 years. And
many documented their visions with doing amazing things etc. etc.
The two are really not comparible although I have noticed that UFOLOGY
seems to replace religion in some of its devotees... the modern
mythology of a technological age which in actuality, is a return to
'old fashioned' paganism with a different covering....
What I am looking for is the SCIENTIFIC evidence. IF you have any to
offer, I would be interested in seeing it.. or seeing a reference...
thanks...
--
Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 29 Dec 91 06:00:01 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <23-Dec-91>
Keith Basterfield wrote:
KB> After digging into fantasy-prone personality research and
KB> noting the correlation with childhood abuse, this lady's abuse
KB> history is horrific.
I absolutely concur on that point Keith. There's more, but I'm
told we'll have to take up further details in RESEARCH.
KB> So, could we argue a psychological explanation? Her mind splits
KB> to cope with the traumas of sexual abuse-along the lines of
KB> multiple personality victims? Or do we argue reality level
KB> event? It all did really happen?
Being consistent with correct scientific method, I think we're
obliged to first consider the more temporal psychological
interpretations, before moving on to the exotic. In the cases
where the mundane (although that term may be understatement, even
for psychological causation) can be ruled out, we might be on to
something of greater implication.
KB> Were there any paranormal events in her life, and if so to what
KB> degree?
She and her parents were/are involved in metaphysics and
theosophy. She has described a number of "ghost" visitations, and
a multitude of psychic "coincidences".
The following is an extract she had written describing an event at
12 years of age. "...My mother and I were in Memphis with my baby
sister who was dying of cancer (she was receiving care at St
Jude's). It was, naturally, a very stressful time for the entire
family -- I was probably _too_ close and prematurely mourning my
sister (who also saw many 'Angels' through her years - some with
strange black suits). But I did find a great solace playing with
a girl my age in the country, on occasion. One weekend, we were
playing in an old, abandoned share-cropper's cottage. For some
reason, it took us a while to notice that the shack was situated
in the middle of an immense field of bright yellow daffodils and
Jonquils. When we finally noticed, we were filled with rapture -
running, laughing, picking flowers -- filled with the beauty of
the moment. To this day when I'm blue, I think of that field and
I am filled with warmth and feelings of security...."
Any thoughts on this excerpt Keith?
Take care,
Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 29 Dec 91 16:58:35 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <23 Dec 91 20:57> Keith Basterfield wrote:
KB> Thanks for your thoughts Jim. It is good to see qualified health
KB> professionals getting involved in the field, it can only benefit
KB> research as a whole. One of the reasons Bob Bartholomew and I
KB> wanted to get a piece on abductions into a peer reviewed Psych
KB> journal was to stimulate some minds into staryting to look into
KB> it. So we were glad to see our piece "UFO abductees and
KB> Contactees: Psychopathology or Fantasy Proneness" appear in the
KB> July edition (1991 Vol 22 No 3 pp 215-222) of the US Journal
KB> "Professional Psychology: Research and Practice." Some 3 years
Great...we need more exposure in the "pro" rags.
KB> ago Budd Hopkins in reply to an article by Sociologist
KB> Bartholomew and I, suggested we get out of our armchairs and
KB> interview some abductees. Easier said than done in Australia.
KB> Since then I have been involved with perhaps 20 Australian
KB> cases-used regression in some and not in others. The two cases I
KB> have studied in details are incredibly complex, lifelong accounts
KB> of interactions with aliens. Both ladies, were sexually abused as
KB> children and carry those scars with them today. The case I have
Do you think there is a connection? I've not seen one in my research, but I may
be taking things too much at face value. There may be some "hidden" abuse in
some of the cases I've looked at.
KB> done most research on I wrote up in IUR Mar/Apr 91. The data
KB> indicates a mixed subjective/objective explanation-not simply one
Do you mean that the final answer will be a mixture of both, or for right now,
the data points both ways? Every objective event has subjective components,
remember...
KB> way. I have worked with people as both counsellor and researcher,
KB> as you say, particularly when there is no one else to turn to. On
KB> the subject of implants I've just conducted a literature review
KB> for an article I've submitted to the IUR. Lots of hearsay, damm
KB> little evidence. However, the Richard proce case is intriguing.
KB> Has anyone gotten a report from David Pritchard at MIT who
KB> analysed the implant? Would make a good interview article for UFO
KB> Magazine, Omni or IUR.
or Continuum...
KB> UFORA published a short catalogue of abduction and misisng time
KB> abstracts last April. If you'd like me to mail you a copy, please
KB> give an address. Same for anyone else who reads this. --- FD 1.99c
Jim Speiser
8390 E. Cheryl Dr.
Scottsdale, AZ 85258
USA
Thanks!
Jim
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 31 Dec 91 05:21:01 GMT
In a message to Keith Basterfield <29-Dec-91 09:58>
Jim Speiser wrote:
KB> The two cases I have studied in detail are incredibly complex,
KB> lifelong accounts of interactions with aliens. Both ladies,
KB> were sexually abused as children and carry those scars with
KB> them today....
JS> Do you think there is a connection? I've not seen one in my
JS> research, but I may be taking things too much at face value.
JS> There may be some "hidden" abuse in some of the cases I've
JS> looked at.
Jim (and Keith), evidence certainly seems to be pointing
towards a correlation between sexual/physical abuse and the
abduction experience. Determining whether this link portends a
shared psychological affliction, a possible prerequisite for
"alien" visitation, or both, should be paramount in our research
efforts.
I do feel that there is great likelihood of "hidden" abuse,
since it is without question a difficult issue to introduce into
the therapist/percipient alliance. For example, in the case I am
involved with, nothing surfaced for close to two years, but when it
finally did, all hell broke loose.
I imagine we should continue this discussion in RESEARCH, right
Jim? But exactly where is RESEARCH anyway???
Take care,
Sheldon
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From: John.Powell@p5.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Strieber
Date: 25 Dec 91 00:18:33 GMT
In a message to Bob Martin <12 Dec 91 21:50> Keith Basterfield wrote:
KB> Bob, also worth looking out for is Strieber's latest novel: "The
KB> Wild",1991 Futura books, London. It's about a man who turns into
KB> a wolf. Some interesting comments in it about Earth and
KB> co-existing entities-wolves.
I was recently posted with excerpts from a magazine interview Strieber gave
prior to Communion (etc.) where he said he'd finished The Wild (or Wolfen,
don't remember which) prior to starting Communion...
Thanks, take care.
John.
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From: Michael.Schuyler@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 31 Dec 91 02:49:00 GMT
In a message to Michael Schuyler <12-28-91 14:55> Sue Widemark wrote:
SW> >SW> It has been observed by psychologists that people who have a
SW> >SW> religious orientation tend to deal with disability and age
SW> Sorry but your 'average IQ' of a religionist is off. For one thing,
SW> over 60% of MENSA, a high IQ society, claims a belief in God! And in
SW> reading some of the literature within the Catholic church, you find
SW> that many many highly intelligent people have chosen to be deists and
SW> even Christians.
The average IQ is, by definition, 100, religious or not. My point, which you
have neatly skirted, is that structured religion has appeal particularly to
the uneducated or those of 'average intelligence.' I think the Mensa claim
is rather overblown for several reasons. Belief in the existence of a
supreme being does not equate to Christianity. And, for that matter,
membership in Mensa means you have passed a test and feel compelled to join
a so-called high-IQ organization, an interesting phenomenon in itsel4f. I do
believe there are many intelligent people who are religious and who have
well-considered views on the role of religion in our culture. I know some of
these people and respect them. I also know too many people of little thought
who are rabidly religious, and it is my observation that these people appear
to be hypnotized and seek in their religion the answer to all questions
great and small. I don't think it is an accident that the Bible Belt in this
country also just happens to be an area of the lowest educational
attainment.
SW>
SW> Thorazine is not a good comparison either... it dulls your mentality
SW> while people who have converted to Christianity report sharpened
SW> senses. And Christians who feel that God will forgive them, _can_
SW> really take responsibility for their actions unlike others who must
I think you are perhaps correct. Thorazine is too modern. Opium would have
been a better term to use, as in "opiate of the masses." People who smoke
pot and people who indulge in cocaine also report "heightened senses," which
turn out by objective measure to be rather less creative than the indulgers
might claim.
SW> message such as yours, is not 'the look' either... I felt compelled
SW> to correct your rather superficial and unknowledgible view of
SW> Christianity!
SW>
That is laughable at best, unless you remove the words between superficial
and Christianity. I think Christianity is not alone in its appeal to
narrow-mindedness and superficiality. Witness Islam, another large cult. But
there is no fundamental difference save size between Christianity and
Scientology, Hare Krishnas, or any other organization that purports to take
care of you if only you will accept the "path" laid out before you.
My interest in this is not to debate Christianity. If you're interested in
that, I might suggest Steve Winter's Holy_Bible echo or some others. But the
cultish aspects of the religion have relevance to the UFO question quite
often, as several cults have come out of what were originally UFO
encounters. Jacques Vallee's account of the UMMO cult is the most recent
case in point, a cult that he says was specifically engineered to gauge
public and police reaction, that has grown into a group of serious
believers. We also have the recent case of Donna Butts, as reported in the
last issue of UFO Magazine, a person who melds together fundamentalist
Christian teachings with UFOs. Up here we have a group called UFO Contactees
International, a group of people who claim just as zealously as any
Christian that they are in contact with higher powers from other dimensions
who manifest themselves through UFOs. To go back a little further, the
Mormon religion owes its genesis to an encounter with an Angel, Moroni
(might have spelling wrong on the name) who gave Joseph some tablets in an
undeciperable language. But fortunately, this angel also had some magic
glasses which, when worn, provided an automatic translation. The account of
this encounter is classic-UFO. And the result is a thriving religion of true
believers.
The UFO literature is just full of this stuff. Eduard "Billy" Meier is
publishing a new book: "The Talmud of Jmmanuel" (Wildflower Press, 1992)
which is Meier's authorized translation of the origin of the ancient gospels
of Matthew and Mark. Go to any New Age convention and you can see a dozen
more of these cults, all so absolutely determined that salvation is through
their interpretation of reality. It is amazing the gullibility of people to
swallow this stuff. And when I hear so-called "saved" religious apologists
condemn these people, well, it's the pot calling the kettle black, one cult
to another.If they'd keep that to themselves, it wouldn't be so bad.
Unfortunately, these absolutist interpretations spill over to the rest of
us, destroying entire cultures and our freedoms in the process.
I certainly don't know of another field of endeavor that strives so hard to
be "scientific," yet attracts so much of the religious mumbo-jumbo as
explanation for the phenomenon. When the facts are few and far between,
that's where religion thrives.
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