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Amiga Update (1996-08-11)
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960811
N E W S F R O M M O N T R E A L
U P D A T E O N A M I G A T E C H N O L G I E S
U P C O M I N G A M I G A C O N V E N T I O N S
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From the Editor:
We begin this issue with a long but very informative report from the
recent Montreal Amiga Convention. We're not sure everything contained in
this report is good news. It seems to us it indicates a lack of a real
vision for the Amiga's future. However, there's nothing that's out and out
bad news either. Read through it yourself and make up your own mind.
Some Amigans may wonder if there's anything at all going on at Amiga
Technologies since the bankruptcy of Escom and the buyout by VIScorp. We
investigated the AT web site and discovered there is activity there.
Finally, we have information on two upcoming Amiga conventions. Both sound
like fun, but one involves a lot more travel than the other for people from
around our area of the world.
We hope you enjoy this issue. Your feedback is always welcome - please
make note of the e-mail addresses at the end of the newsletter and please
pass this newsletter on to anyone you feel might read it.
Brad
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R E P O R T F R O M M O N T R E A L A M I G A C O N
VIScorp Information from the ACMontreal Convention
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 11:04:18 -0400
From: Paper Tiger <slntpaw@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Silent Paw Productions, Inc.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
To: Carl Eric Codere <codc01@gel.usherb.ca>
Subject: AC 96 Notes and Discussions
I thought I would post this. It is a summary of AC96 discussions with Mr.
Rosen, Jason Compton and others. The following is a paraphrased transcript
by Paul Sadlik of a speech and follow up questions with David Rosen (the
Vice President for Business Development of VIScorp) at the ACMontreal
convention on August 3rd, 1996. There are some additional comments in the
text by Jason Compton (JC), who is now working with VIScorp.
==========================
To begin with, Commodore and Escom put everything they had into killing the
platform. We want to make the Amiga live and we will be successful.
Background
VIScorp was started by Roger Remillard in 1990. Don Gilbreath was brought
in and developed a proprietary OS for the ED Box. Eventually we ended up
licensing technology from the Amiga.
It became quickly clear that Escom had no money and that they had no idea
what to do with the Amiga. As our relationship with Escom developed, it
became clear that we should make an effort to get control of the Amiga. As
licensees, we weren't close enough to controlling the development of the
Amiga.
We believe in the Amiga OS. Our goal is to have two lines of business,
including moving forward the Amiga OS. We also have the UITI with Emerson
and the ED Box. This is or can be a large, wide open set top business.
There is no Bill Gates standing in the way. Hopefully in the next month,
we hope to get more licensing deals that can be used to finance the
computer side of the business.
The dominance of the Microsoft/WinTel monopoly can leave a good niche for
high end and low end machines. The set top box side can support the Amiga
computer side financially and the development on the Amiga side can support
the Set top box side.
For the Amiga, our goal in the short term is to come out with an 060
accelerator board. We are also putting together an architectural design
group. We want the best people to work in this open group to design the
future Amiga. We will hopefully have some announcements next week of what
they will do. There will be more people/engineers brought on board next
week too.
This weekend, we came to thank you for supporting the platform and to show
our support of the platform.
QUESTIONS:
Q: Tell us more about your set top boxes?
Basically the UITI is an 1200/020. It provides access to the Internet and
the WWW. It has also got a built in speaker phone, callerID, and telephone
functions. With it you can send and receive faxes and Email. It is
actually a stripped down version of the ED device.
The ED box will be out next February (?). It has a tuner (for cable) and a
card swipe device. It has a modular communications port designed for a
28.8 modem, ISDN adapter, Ethernet, Cable modems, etc - whatever is needed.
-----
Q: Have you made any pitches to TCI - and how do you compare with other
set top boxes?
We are going after the smaller cable guys, since the large companies want
more commitments than we could make. With the UITI box, we are talking
with cable companies about leasing it to them and then they will rent them
to their customers. We recently set up a test system for Booth Cable in
Michigan called "BoothNet" with UITI boxes and a telephone connections to a
Internet server. The test customers loved having this simple Internet
connection, the callerID, the speaker phone.
With such systems we are providing the cable companies with a new
additional form of revenue. Right now the cable system sucks (that's a
technical term) - the systems are one way. So we bypass those systems with
phone lines for going up stream. The users used our systems, liked them
and that gives the cable company an edge in the increasing competition.
---
Q: Will there be a difference between the set top boxes and the Amiga?
The Amiga is an open system, allowing the user to plug things into it.
While the new ED box is a set top box, users can still use ports for floppy
drives, keyboards, etc. We have also designed a new remote control that
provides a small built in QWERTY keyboard to let people interact.
---
Q: What about a cable adapter for the Amiga?
There probably will be an Amiga ED card later. The browser we are working
on will work on the Amiga, The RISC things probably will not run on the set
top boxes, its too expensive. The set top box will probably have four
megabytes or RAM, it will have room for a CD-Rom drive, it will run with
Amiga OS, it will run Amiga applications.
We are trying to get a 300 dollar box out there and there are zillions of
people out there that don't care what the box is. The browser will be
designed to allow users to go directly to our server and buy more Amiga
stuff and turn their boxes into computers.
-----
Q: Will the ED software run on Amigas?
Of course.
We are also working with a group for developers to support the Amiga. We
will have a password protected Amiga Internet site for developers. We hope
to bring back the core Amiga developers and game guys, etc.
----
Q: What about all the proprietary software (Real Audio, Shockwave, etc) on
the net?
We've talked with Sun about Java. Initially, we were thinking of trying to
include in the set top boxes, but decided that would be too much at one
time. We didn't feel it was appropriate to contact everyone yet.
------
Q: What about big companies and what about the hardware OS?
We have had discussions with everyone that was relevant. We've talked with
Motorola, DEC, etc. Once everything happens legally, then we will do
something concrete. Give us another month.
----
Q: Where will the old German Amiga Technologies (AT) fit in all this?
We are very aware that AT did an awful job. They never talked with folks
in the UK, Italy, France, etc. Petro will probably stay in a selling
capacity in Germany, since he knows the retail system/channels.
But Petro gave away the United Kingdom. We want to change that.
---
Q: What are the possibilities of new markets? China? India?
YES THERE ARE! There was a company in China, called New Star that bought
the Chinese distribution rights for the 020, 030, 040 Amigas from Escom.
We have been meeting with them and discussed future possibilities. We are
very optimistic about what can happen there.
----
Q: Where is the company's focus going to be?
VIScorp has focused on the set top box, we are still trying to figure out
what to do with the Amiga computer. That's the idea of the Architectural
Design group. They will work on it and figure out where we can go with the
platform, the OS, the processor question, etc.
JC: We are here to find out what has to go and what has to stay in the
future machines. What do you want to buy in new Amigas?
---
Q: What about the Walker computer shown by Amiga Technologies?
The Walker was nothing. There was never anything there. It was barely
running and still needed a lot of work. The idea is that we will move
forward. We will give out licenses as long as there are standards (from
the Architectural Design group) followed and the sensitivity to the
historic issues that the users might want.
----
Q: What about platform/CPU independence?
JC: There is only one company successfully shrink wrap OS's . They can
run their OS on 8 processors at once. Maybe the Architectural Design group
can lay it out and someone else can implement the OS on other platforms.
DR: I'm not an engineer, but I've heard Carl and Don talk about this.
When they have put the OS on any RISC chip, they will be able easily be to
port it from machine to machine.
----
Q: What about the Motorola PowerPC (PPC) RISC chips and the PowerPC
platform standard? The standards group will look into it. They don't know
if they want to get that involved in something that Apple has had there
hands on. They want something they want to make the Amiga desktop systems
unique.
----
Q: Do you want Amiga software to work on your set top boxes, etc.
Our goal is not to sell software, but Amiga software should run on the set
top boxes.
---
Q: Your buying the Amiga makes commercial sense for your set top box
business, but sinking millions of dollars into a niche computer platform
isn't bound to have a short or certain return. Why are you doing this?
There are two reasons we are buying the Amiga and going to build Amiga
computers - defensive and offensive. Defensively, we wanted to protect the
OS and chipset to save our set top boxes. Escom was doing little with it
and falling apart. In the Escom bankruptcy, the Chinese were bidding for
Amiga Technologies too and they had few clues what they were buying or what
to do with it.
Offensively, we believe there are enough people interested to provide a
successful niche for the Amiga computers. It just needs to be done right.
----
Q: What can you tell us about the Amiga's presence at the Olympics?
There was a guy named Keith Cagle that brought in his 2500 Toaster system
to the media center since there were so many people Europe and Latin
America that couldn't deal with the Panasonic and Sony editing systems
there. So he made some calls and got a number of Amiga developers to loan
6 complete Toaster/Flyer systems for he journalists to use.
---
Q: What is the status with Phase5, PIOS and the Chinese?
Phase 5 has been talking with Jason Compton and they are cooperating. In
private communications they have been much more cooperative than on the
Internet.
When Escom went bankrupt, PIOS, the Chinese and VIScorp were the bidders
for the Amiga.
DR: As they say in marketing, we want Amiga technology to "have legs". We
want it to have a number of lines of expansion - to keep moving and
advancing. The Amiga as a computer is one those avenues.
----
Q: What is your marketing strategy for America?
We take final possession of Amiga technology and rights on September 19th.
We are here now to develop our strategies and find out what the users want.
Check our web site for more developments.
This will be our Phoenix strategy.
----
What plans have you got for incorporating 3D technologies into the Amiga?
The Cybergraphics 3D standard? We want to see the Cybergraphics effort.
Then look into possible chip sets, boards and software. After all that we
will be able to say more.
============================================
The following is a paraphrased transcript of a questions and answers panel
held with David Rosen (DR) and Jason Compton (JC) of VIScorp, and Dale
Larson (DL) of Intangible Assets Manufacturing and formerly of Commodore.
This panel was held on August 4th at the ACMontreal convention.
---
Q: Will there be a stop gap machines released before the RISC Amigas?
JC: We have a current inventory to machines to clear out. Also we don't
want to "Obourne" ourselves. The distribution channels needs to be more
streamlined. No one knew who to buy from. In the U.S., we will use
QuikPak, in Germany we will use the former Amiga Technologies.
Distribution will be much better. DL: Getting a new product out the door
(even if already designed) would cost time and already limited resources
from the RISC machines.
DR: This pushes the end point out for development of the RISC machines.
I'd rather see the time for the Power Amigas, so we could get them out in
the least possible time (12 months?).
---
Q: What about just cost reducing the existing Amigas and getting their
prices to PC comparable levels?
JC: If we sell you a cheap amiga now, will you buy another one (the RISC
Amiga) in a few months? This would cripple later RISC Amiga sales to the
community. Just doing cheap machines wont do it.
DR: Any cheap machine will be compared with the performance (RAM, CPU
power, etc) of the WinTel group. How well would these old Amigas sell?
---
Q: What about the Walker shown by Escom in the Spring?
JC: Don Gilbraith said that the Walker would take longer to finish than
doing a similar, new machine from the ground up. It was not designed by
Amiga people and it would hard to finish and make compatible.
----
Q: What can be done to give the Amiga momentum again?
DR: Initially, our attempt at VIScorp was to bring the Amiga back to life
with set top boxes and let the network (Internet) be our channel to
reaching the users for software, etc. But with the Amiga computer, it is
dependent on the retail channel. We originally wanted to only do the set
top boxes and then do the computer in 2 years. Since getting involved with
the purchase and the Amiga community, we have decided to work on Amiga
computers, without trying to hinder our long term goals for the set top
boxes.
JC: We are hoping to convince developers to wait a year for the new
Amigas.
DL: Frankly, No - Developers cannot wait for the future (without sales
unless VIScorp decides to hand out welfare checks.
{This particular Q and A set strikes me as very scary. Do they talk to each
other? Exactly what was JC getting at and why did DL say no? Brad}
----
Q: Will you use the Internet to support existing Amiga users?
DR: We are way ahead of you. We are going to use a California networking
company to run our server and have an area to support developers with
complete on-line docs. We want to see the Internet hold the community
together. We build the necessary system in a piecemeal process.
DL: That used to be taken care of by CATS. Lately the Olaf Barthell's
CD-Rom came out full of development materials for the support of
developers. Everything that was secret under Commodore should be made
public, all the development notes, newsletters, etc.
---
Q: What's going to happen with the assembly lines?
JC: There weren't any owned by Amiga Technologies. Everything was
produced under contract on a shipment by shipment basis, so the lines
weren't running full time anyway. They will do more 1200s and 4000s as
needed.
---
Q: What is the strategy for enlarging the amiga market?
JC: That's why we are here. We are committed to selling the Amiga. We
want to find the best method by which to do this.
DR: We want to work with anyone. Lets say you are a reseller. For
example, there are people in Australia selling Amigas to the government for
schools. We do all we can to help him, but he needs to do all he can do
to. We provide the turnkey stuff that we can (adjust our prices, etc), but
we have limited resources. Still, we will help any serious projects to the
limits of our abilities.
With bigger deals we can do more. For example, we are going in a couple of
days to one of the Canadian phone companies and making a set top box
demonstration. A local Amiga guy put us together with them and we are
going to see them.
With smaller companies that can support local buyers, we will support them
and hope they can handle pushing the Amiga.
---
Q: Plans on licensing to other manufacturers?
JC: Wherever it makes sense, we will do it. We will make deals with any
machines - even provide our designs. Show us the marketing plans, etc - if
its good, sure.
DR: We are setting up the architectural design group to create the
standards and protocols of the future operating systems and platforms.
This will determine what people must do to build Amiga computers. J C: We
will lead this Architecture group and keep control of the shape of the
operating system. We saw what PIOS and phase5 were doing and I was the
first one to say this wouldn't be good. In such a small market and
platform, we couldn't afford to have things split up between rivals Amiga
versions.
DR: We are buying intellectual rights and we will go to court to protect
them. Keeping people from making unsanctioned Amiga variants is part of
that.
----
Q: from Greg Scott of National Amiga (Canadian Mail Order Co.):
I'm scared that the price on these machines will not come down. I can't
sell them at those prices.
DR: I don't know what the pricing thing is. We are aware of this and know
we will have to do something with it and are looking into our options.
----
Q: What about the RISC chip for the Amiga?
DR: No work has been done. There's been lots of talk, with Motorola and
others. No decisions have been made. No one wants to make any deals with
anyone until the ownership of the Amiga is finally settled.
JC: The engineers have taken some flexibility in this decision of RISC
chips. Things have changed in the last year affecting the prior Motorola
PowerPC decision and the engineers want to make sure they choose the best
solution.
DL: Keep in mind, things have changed in the computer world - IBM was
saying that OS/2 was going to come out on the PowerPC's and they didn't.
Apple is going down faster than the Amiga.
JC: We know something has to be decided fast.
DR: We have been in discussions with people including Motorola. We know
we are going to RISC, the rest is a technical discussion for the engineers.
What kind of support will the chip company provide? How much help will
they provide?
DL: There's a lot of work to be done. There has to be a lot of software
work done. It is more than porting the Exec and emulation doesn't work (as
Apple found). There has to be a lot of work done to the operating system
to bring it closer to other platforms.
---
Q: We have to keep the same software, is it possible?
DL: The operating system is showing a lot of age. Developers need to get
the kind of support from the OS that other OS's provide. There is a lot of
work, a lot of architectural issues, a lot of API changes that have to be
made. It is not easy, it can't be done by the third parties, etc.
BF (Bob Fisher of Nova Design - in the audience): When all the graphics
cards came and we were faced with having to rewrite everything we did for
every card. THANK YOU Cybergraphics - they saved us a lot of time and
money, by letting us write for one standard. This is what we need.
VIScorp has to communicate with developers. They have to give the
developers info on what's going on in time to get things done. Let us work
with everything as soon as possible.
JC: Whatever we do. We will let everyone know what we do and there will
be no surprises - like with the Walker demo at CeBit.
---
Q: "Don't make a war with Phase5. Take 2 years, do it right. In the
meantime, give us 060's cheap."
DR: We are putting out 060 boards for 4000's (maybe 3000's) in the Fall.
I don't know how much they will cost. I think it will be a bit more than
our cost.
Phase 5 cannot re-engineer the Amiga without violating the patents and
licenses that we are buying. We will protect our rights. They also don't
have Motorola's support for their project yet.
----
Q: "Work on the RISC machines and add an 060 and 10 MBs of RAM for 1200s
at low prices. Everyone will buy and average users will be very happy."
DR: It's something to think about. I'm curious, do we really need an
interim box? Would an 060 box do it?
---
Q: Any plans for a super computer?
DR: Yeah, that's our coke machine
---
Q: What did the management say was the reason Sun dropped the deal with
Commodore or Amiga based workstations?
DL: They said they didn't want to do it?
---
Q: What can you tell us about the BeBox?
JC: They flew me out to see it. They got a lot of press and recognition,
proof that someone thought a third computer was a real possibility. The Be
opened a door that the Amiga rebirth could walk through. Half their
company says "we should be selling computers" and the other half is saying
"we should be selling software and OS's". They have a lot of infighting.
DR: We talked with Jean-Louis Gasse and they are in a mess. They don't
know what they want to do. They thought we were going to let the Amiga die
and they wanted to "cream skim the Amiga users and developer base". Since
we bought the Amiga and talked with them, their hopes have dimmed.
The multi-processing play is not far from what our engineering team has
been thinking about. Carl has thought about it and has a board supporting
this in mind. Please wait for more on this.
----
Closing Comments
DR: We know you have gone through great adversity. With your strength,
you saved he Amiga. We came to indicate that we are going to bring the
Amiga back to the North American market.
We also want to make it so Amiga users can just press a button on their
Amigas and reach the community, get hundreds of answers to questions and
access to developers and so. Shawn
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A M I G A T E C H N O L O G I E S S T I L L A C T I V E
{The following is an AT version of anouncement made recently by VIScorp
(and carried in the previous issue of the Update). This version notes the
current arrangements for shipping to dealers. Brad}
AMIGA relocates Order processing to Braunschweig
Ladies and Gentlemen, dear AMIGA dealers !
You certainly learned it from the media, last week the events almost
overtook themselves:
Bensheim 22/07/96
On Thursday, the 18th of July, 1996 the final contract of purchase was
signed between the bankruptcy trustee solicitor Bernhard Hembach and the
president and CEO of VISCorp, William Buck, with approval of the 'pool of
banks' for the entire remaining inventory and intellectual property. Until
18th of August 1996 VISCorp has time now to establish the necessary
companies to carry on with its current businesses.
In the meantime, the business will be run with the approval of the
bankruptcy trustee Hembach under the name AMIGA Technologies GmbH i.K.
From the 19th of August, 1996 the business will finally be run under the
name, control and ownership of VISCorp.
What changes now ?
Order processing, distribution and dealer support are now being handled in
Braunschweig. Mr. Axel Krämer is now responsible for the operations there
and the contact persons are Axel Krämer, Margret Wiedemann and Andreas
Steep.
Support, hotline, accounting and company management are still located in
Bensheim.
Just as a reminder the Braunschweig-address:
AMIGA Technologies GmbH i.K.
Hansestraße 15
D-38112 Braunschweig
Tel: 0531-31089-0
Fax: 0531-31089-77
Thank you very much for continued cooperation, we wish you and us all the
best !
Kind regards,
Petro Tyschtschenko
{Also, the Amiga Technologies WWW site has added a new area for support.
The most recent update we spotted was dated August 8th. There is now an
FTP from which files can be downloaded over the Internet, noted on the
support page. Brad.}
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M I D W E S T A M I G A E X P O
The Amiga Central Ohio Network Presents
THE MIDWEST AMIGA EXPOSITION
October 19th and 20th
Columbus, Ohio
The Midwest Amiga Exposition is a gathering of vendors, distributors, and
user groups from across the nation and Canada, who share a common thread:
"The Amiga". The Expo will run two days in Columbus, Ohio and feature many
distinguished Amiga personalities and companies. Among those attending,
demonstrating, and selling products, will be: VIScorp who will graciously
give a formal demonstration of their set-top box technology and update the
Amiga community on their plans for the Amiga.
Nova Designs
They'll be showing off Image FX and maybe (maybe) the new Alladin 4D! At
this time they are slated to give a formal demonstration.
Compuquick MediaCenter
Columbus Ohio's resident Amiga dealer. A large stock of great
Amiga-related products, magazines and peripherials
Weingarten Gallery
Dayton Ohio's ONLY authorized Amiga dealer! Ron Schwartz is the proprietor
of this fine establishment and will have plenty of Amiga items, including
products from his son, Eric Schwartz. {One of the Amiga's best cartoonists
and animators. Brad}
AmiTech
A Dayton, Ohio Amiga user group. They have pledged their undying, loyal
support to us for this event!
All prices below are in U.S. funds
Tickets:
$6.00 in advance
$8.00 at the door
Ticket prices include two-day admission. Parking is available for free at
the facility, Westerville South High School.
For more information please contact:
Dave Pearce via e-mail at: dpearce@freenet.columbus.oh.us or (614) 967-1510
Ronn Black via e-mail at ronn@btsoft.cmhnet.org or (614) 891-3721
You may also direct inquires by mail to:
AmiCON
P.O. Box 18311
Columbus, Ohio 43216
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A M I G A W O R K S H O P I N C Z E C H R E P U B L I C
{Following is text of the WWW page promoting the upcoming September Amiga
Workshop in the Czeck Republic. A bit more travel involved for most readers
than the one in Ohio, but if anyone's attending, perhaps they'd send us a
report from the site? Brad}
Dear sellers and users of Amiga computers, graphicians, artists,
advertisement designers and businessmen, computer game players,
in short words all of you who care of graphics, video and digital
image processing, animations - all the things based on the Amiga computer!
On this WWW page you may learn more about the Amiga WorkShop96,
a selling exhibition prepared by editors of the Chip - MY Amiga.
AWS96 contents:
As you may guess all the meaningful sellers of Amiga will visit the
exhibition. You will be able to buy a new hardware and software for your
computer here, you may catch the new pieces of information about the
presence and the future development of the Amiga. The goal is not exactly
to allow you to buy whatever you may want for sure, but to enhance the
popularity of Amiga by showing you the professional utilization of the
technics. You will be given the chance to observe the work of many
professional Amiga users, video studios, cabel TV stations etc. We have
learned a lot since the last AWS that took place a year ago, the visitors
will find more interesting things to watch and to explore. Some special
seminars will take place with a great help of the exhibitors. We will take
care of the right announcements, not as the last AWS - our fault. For 1 Kc
you will be able to buy a seat-reservation ticket by the cash-desk, we hope
this will enhance the show and people will not be disappointed.
WHAT WILL BE NEW?
To come with something special we have decided to join the users in the
show. You will find the following actions:
AWS Bazaar
There are many users of old Amigas, that would like to sell their equipment
(diskettes, harddisks, printers, joypads...). People will have the chance
to try to sell and buy whatever they find useful.
AWS Show
Other parties and shows usually present some examples of the hard work by
famous graphicians and other artists. We can not guarantee you will find
some at AWS, but we hope so. Good luck!
AWS Scene party
The scene party of more and less famous people will take place on Saturday
from 2 p.m. till 6 (or more) p.m. Do not forget to visit the party, to
meet the people, to watch the demos and to listen to the wonderful songs in
the show! WHEN WILL THE AWS96 TAKE PLACE?
Amiga WorkShop starts on Saturday 14th September (10:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.)
and finishes on Sunday 15th September (10:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.). The
exhibitors will arrive on Friday 13th September from 3:00 p.m.
WHERE WILL THE AWS96 TAKE PLACE?
Gymnazium Elgartova
Elgartova 3
BRNO
614 00
Czech Republic
Contact address:
Phone:
Vaclav Kovarik (WAX )
(0042) 504 85 447 - (Sa - Su) and hollydays
(0042) 5 43 12 92 78 (Mo - Fr; 8.00 - 22.00)
Igor Cerny (IRo)
(0042) 5 45 21 57 07 (08)
Faximile:
+42 5 45 21 57 07
E-mail:
wax@fi.muni.cz
S-Mail address:
MY Amiga
Zahumni 4
Brno
Czech Republic
A table reservation for the AWS Show and the AWS Bazaar:
Phone:
(0042) 5 58 24 31 - Josef Marianek
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Amiga Update on the net: recent issues available in html format at:
http://www.sharbor.com
All back issues available (ASCII text only) at:
http://www.globaldialog.com/AdventureCentral/AU.html
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Copyright 1996 by Brad Webb. Freely distributable, if not modified.
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_ __ _ <>_ __ _ || Brad Webb/AmigaUpdate
/\\ |\ /|| || / ` /\\ || webb@malamute.med.ge.com
/__\\ | \ / || || || ___ /__\\ || bandr@globaldialog.com
/ \\_ | \/ ||_ _||_ \__// / \\_ || Portal -- XJumpdisk
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