Jack Tramiel interview for Data Welt (English)
This article is the english translation of the german article from yesterday.
What JACK Tramiel has to say concerns everyone!
No other person has had such a lasting influence on the world of computers as Jack Tramiel. In 1977, he introduced the COMMODORE PET 2001 Personal Electronic Translator, the first personal computer. In 1980, he made computer power affordable for everyone with the VC 20 People's Computer. This was followed in 1982 by the COMMODORE 64, by far the best-selling computer in the world. Tramiel remained true to his motto: "For the masses, not for the classes" and always wanted to offer the latest technology at the lowest prices. This is no different with ATARI, his latest venture, as the ST clearly proves.
Who actually is this Jack Tramiel? What is his philosophy? What can we expect from him in the future? DATA WELT editor-in-chief Dr. Achim Becker, himself a long-time Tramiel fan, was now able to get him to give a detailed interview. The "scene of the crime" was Tramiel's weekend home at Lake Tahoe in Nevada a few days after CES Las Vegas on January 14. With unusual openness, Tramiel answered all questions, giving a deep insight into the life and philosophy of one of the most fascinating, successful men of our time:
DATA WORLD: Who is Jack Tramiel? Who runs the Atari company? Where does Tramiel come from?
Jack Tramiel: Do you want everything from the beginning? I was born in Poland, September 1928 in Lodz. I had to spend the war years in Germany. In 1947 I emigrated to USA and joined the army: mainly to learn the English language and to get professional training. Along the way I attended an IBM school for office technology. There I learned to repair electric typewriters. When I left the army after three years and seven months, I used these skills to get a job as a mechanic. I already had a family - my son was one year old - but the money I earned, 50 dollars a week, was not enough. So I had to drive a cab at night in addition.
After a few years, my wife and I decided that she should also go to work, so that I had a chance to start my own business. With a friend I knew from the army, I started a company that also sold and repaired electric typewriters. So we chewed up 200 used IBM machines from the United States. We repaired them and had at least something to sell. With the profits, we bought a tiny company called Singer Typewriters for $10,000, which was located in New York in the Bronx. Only the fact that we had both served in the army made it possible for the banks to lend us 25,000 dollars each at extremely favorable conditions - that's how we got our start-up capital.
It quickly became clear to us that there was no business in repairing alone - trading in imported machines from Olympia, Adier or Everest seemed much more lucrative. In any case, our customers had nothing against the cheap, foreign typewriters from the little store in the Bronx.
Even as a small boy, I was interested in geography; collected stamps and cigarette pictures with flags. I had no preference for a particular country, a particular city, the whole world was interesting to me.
So it wasn't a big step for me to move my activities to Toronto in Canada. I thought I'd have a better chance in a slightly smaller country than the USA. Besides: there were so many smart guys hanging around in the Bronx - I didn't find that so comfortable. I suggested to my partner that he either come with me to Canada or buy the store in the Bronx. That was in 1955, and a year later he came along.
There we did exactly the same thing: repaired and rebuilt used typewriters for department stores, which then sold them. Along the way, we took over an agency for Everest Italian machines, which is how I met the English agent for that company, Erik Markus - a native of Berlin. He was the son-in-law of Willi Feiler, who had previously produced adding machines in Berlin, but had to leave Germany in 1936 because he was Jewish. We hit it off right away and he became my role model. He taught me how to be a real businessman; he helped me tremendously in every respect.
He put me in touch with companies in Czechoslovakia. I wanted to manufacture typewriters under license in Canada in order to get public contracts - at that time, people in Canada were also very nationally minded and wanted only Canadian products for government institutions. Well, I was young and naive and simply asked American manufacturers, but they laughed at me. My friend in England said that it would be no problem to get a license to copy the Czech machines. They would also support me technically and show me how to build such machines.
I got the license and built the machines in Canada for the Canadian branch of the large department store chain Sears & Robuck. We bought the parts in Europe and assembled them in Canada, so our typewriters were true Canadian products. The only thing we were missing was a name. One day I was in Berlin with Erik and while we were in a cab we discussed all possible name suggestions - suddenly I saw a car with the nameplate Commodore; well, and because our preferred names General and Admiral were already taken, we called the typewriters Commodore. And that's how this famous company name came about in 1958.
I still didn't have much money, I could really only rely on my personal skills. So I went to my customers and said, "If you want me to build the machines for you, you have to pre-finance me. The first loan I got was from Sears & Robuck, $170,000. The business was very successful, so I needed more money. So Sears put me in touch with one of their finance brokers. Through him, I got a financing company that lent me money and charged enormous interest on it. That's how I really got into the business. In 1960/61, my friend Erik started selling adding machines that his father-in-law produced in Berlin. He had previously manufactured parts for mechanical accounting machines there. As electronics became ubiquitous, it became clear to Mr. Feiler that he had better produce something else. So he switched to adding machines. To make a long story short, I took over the representation for USA and Canada. In 1962, I bought the whole company and suddenly I owned a German company that employed 2000 people - mainly in Berlin.
All this time I was literally working twenty-four hours a day; my family wasn't very happy about that because I was almost never home. One day my oldest son, who was just thirteen at the time, said to me, "Dad, when I grow up, I don't want to be like you; I always want to have time for my family. I tried to give him an explanation: look, normal people have a family like a tree with its branches; they just cut down my tree. So I have to build a new one - and you are a branch on it. Please understand, I have to rebuild everything - so I don't have time. To make him fully understand, I took him with me to work, on my travels and business negotiations during his summer vacation. Of course, I was often in Berlin at that time and he accompanied me. I knew that I had to take more care of my children, but I could only do it in such a way that business was not neglected. This time helped us a lot to understand each other better again within the family.
That was really a turning point in my life. The family became very, very important to me from then on. I believe very much in life; you have to help each other, you have to develop trust among each other, and you have to have continuity in everything you do. All of life is continuous, after all. My dream was that - just as I tried to be the best in my field - my sons would continue in the same field and also try to be the best - but without forcing them to work in the same industry. Instead, I've always made an effort to show them what I'm doing, get them involved, and discuss the successes and failures with them.
I think this method worked - all three sons are now with the company. By the way, without any planning, all three have specialized in different aspects. Sam has an economics education from York University in Canada and is now president of the company, Leonard studied physics at Columbia University and works on the software, and Gary, the youngest, attended Manlow Park College, where you are systematically prepared for management positions, and now takes care of the finances. They all work in different areas, but always very closely together.
DATA WELT: Atari was the only major computer manufacturer represented at CES. What's going on? Are you the last of a dying tribe or is a new period beginning in the computer business?
Jack Tramiel: It seems to me that a lot of computer companies want to make a very strict distinction between the prvate and the professional. I mean, the two go together. Some call their machines home computers, for me there are no home computers at all, for me that term didn't exist from the beginning. We call all our machines personal computers.
At the moment, all manufacturers are aiming for the upscale market and are virtually fleeing the low-price sector. So they leave this market to me - I can only thank the competition wholeheartedly for that. In my estimation, this is the biggest market. I don't usually give my competitors free advice, but here's one I give them for the benefit of computer buyers. Competitors make critical mistakes: first, they are too greedy; second, they are unwilling to work hard and acknowledge that buyers are smart and will stop buying if we don't keep releasing new, better products.
Because while a businessman buys a computer to solve certain problems, not caring whether the device is old or new, good or bad, the private user rightly wants the best for his money - and that's where the difference between professional and personal computer applications lies. So when it comes to personal computers, much greater efforts have to be made to make the products good - and many manufacturers are not prepared to do that.
DATA WELT: So one of the reasons for the collapse of the so-called home computer market is simply a lack of innovation?
Jack Tramiel: Exactly
DATA WORLD: Why are the Atari computers so cheap?
Jack Tramiel: Atari computers are not cheap, the other computers are just more expensive.
DATA WORLD: So why are they less expensive?
Jack Tramiel: Because I'm satisfied if I can make a reasonable profit on my products. I'm not greedy, I'm not out to get what I can get. My philosophy of making a reasonable profit has proven to be the right concept, especially in the computer industry. The company I used to run always made very high profits at low prices; the same company today takes much more for its products and at the same time makes enormous losses! So I think that low prices ultimately promise more profit than high ones.
DATA WELT: How did you actually come to launch the Commodore PET, a microcomputer, nine years ago?
Jack Tramiel: There's a very simple answer to that. I was making calculators at the time, and Texas Instruments at the time - it was around 1975 - was trying to beat all the competition out of the field. So they lowered the price of the chips from twelve dollars to one dollar and created absolute chaos in that market. My survival instincts told me it was pointless to play dead and let things take their course. That's why I fight TI; one of the things I did in that fight was to chew up a semiconductor factory that was doing very badly - as was the whole industry; after all, the investors had put $23 million into that company, but I was able to buy it for $800,000. And so I had the opportunity to make the chips myself and give TI real competition.
When I took over MOS-Technology, as the company was called, they already had the 6502, which the engineers used, among other things, for the KIM single-board computer, the first real low-cost microcomputer.
But to keep the company busy and to recoup the money invested in the development of the 6502, it was not enough to get Atari and Apple to buy this chip, but to use it ourselves. Chuck Peddle was one of the MOS Technology engineers and assured me that the KIM could be built into a real computer with a keyboard and so on. He accepted the challenge to produce a prototype within six months. If he didn't make it, his job with me would be over, if it worked out, he could stay. That's how the PET was born. It was actually born out of the need to put a personal computer on desktops and keep the factory busy, using the 6502 chips that had been produced.
DATA WELT: Then came the VC 20, with which you created the new market of inexpensive personal computers in which you were very successful. After that came the 64. But you never took care of the more upscale personal computer market. You actually left this area entirely to companies like IBM. Were there reasons for that?
Jack Tramiel: I disagree with you when you say that I left the market to others.
When I saw that Atari had become a two-billion-dollar company with game consoles, I thought that users would appreciate it if I offered them a machine that was not only good for playing games, but also for real computing, for the same price. After all, I always assumed that my customers were intelligent enough to recognize such advantages. And I was right. The VC 20 became very successful and Atari's sales suffered. Since we always thought that you should be your own biggest competitor and that the VC 20 didn't have enough power, we brought out the Commodore 64. When IBM introduced their Micro, they called it a personal computer, but the PC is mainly used in offices. I would not consider it a personal computer, even if they call it that. Hardly any normal person can afford to buy a 5000 dollar computer for fun. You know my saying: I manufacture computers for the masses, not for the classes! I'm happy to leave the 'classes' to IBM.
DATA WELT: Well, that was the case. Now you are building the ST, which can do more than a PC and is aimed directly at the market that IBM is also targeting. The ST is suitable for the office as well as for the home ...
Jack Tramiel: My philosophy is still the same. I've proven that I'm building a Ferrari, while IBM, in my opinion, is offering the 1930 Model T Ford. But I offer the ST for personal applications, not for the office. If the user is intelligent enough to go to the office, or my handlers are good enough to know the difference between IBM and Atari, and they want to advise their customers well - with the better machine at the better price - then that's their business.
DATA WELT: The ST is now on the market, but the standard is more than ever IBM, the MS-DOS computers, especially at the time when a veritable flood of IBM-compatible ones is rushing in from the Far East. There is also Apple with the Macintosh and the IIe, plus now Commodore's Amiga, which is to be established in the market. Is there enough room for all these computers on the market and, if not, how do you plan to make room for the Atari ST?
Jack Tramiel: I believe that I am in a highly competitive high-tech industry. So I have to encourage innovation. If we maintain the standard, we kill innovation. I have no intention whatsoever of stifling innovation; I'm there to encourage innovation! So if there's something new in sight - I'll do it! And let's see if the best doesn't win in the end ...
DATA WELT: ... and the best is you ...
Jack Tramiel: That's for the users to decide!
DATA WELT: And you will help the users to do so.
Jack Tramiel: and I will work my ass off to win!
DATA WELT: Do you think that the ST will take over the role of the C 64?
Jack Tramiel: It's getting even stronger! It is the better computer at a better price. Even the 64 users will quickly realize that. I've already gotten a lot of calls and letters from 64-series owners telling me that they are diligently feeding their piggy banks so that they can soon buy an ST.
DATA WORLD: So the ST can take the place of the C 64 and become the personal computer of the next few years!
Jack Tramiel: Yes, it looks like it.
DATA WELT: Do you actually still have vertrans to 8-bit computers or do you only offer them as a cheap offer for beginners?
Jack Tramiel: No, no, there's still a lot going on in the 8-bit area! Strangely enough, such computers are being used more and more in the commercial sector. In this area, no new technologies are needed, only solutions. Those who need a text program for professional use are not interested in innovations, but only in the proper functioning of their computer with the program. So we are developing our 8-bit computers further, giving them more memory and, for example, an 80-character display. There will be a mouse for the 130XE and GEM as user interface - in short: it will become the computer for people with less money; cheap, but with a lot of solutions.
DATA WELT: And what's next for the ST? You said it yourself: smart customers, smart dealers will also use the ST in other areas, for office automation, for production control and whatever. Will there be improved, more powerful versions of the ST from Atari to penetrate such professional areas?
Jack Tramiel: Yes. Because the personal user also wants ever more powerful, ever more capable, ever more exciting machines. And I always have the personal user and his needs in mind.
DATA WORLD: So in a few months or a year, will there be an Extended ST with a hard disk and several megabytes for a price that everyone can afford, whether they are private or commercial users?
Jack Tramiel: Exactly.
DATA WORLD: Will you ever offer a $10,000 machine?
Jack Tramiel: Never say never. I don't know how inflation will develop. But seriously: in one point I have changed my attitude since I run ATARI. In the past I thought that the improvements always had to result in a new machine. For example, I didn't want the VC 20 to be upgraded to the 64.
My current plan is to make the ST the standard product. But then there should be expansion cards to add all the new features we are developing. So if you bought an ST and need more power after some time, you should not have to buy a new computer, but just an expansion unit - no matter if it's better graphics, better sound capabilities or 32-bit CPU, you should have the possibility to upgrade the computer as needed.
DATA WORLD: In contrast to the different generations of Commodore computers, software investments should be safe investments, because programs that were purchased for the ST also run on upgraded computers.
Jack Tramiel: Sure, and even when upgrading with a 32-bit CPU. Because if it's built in as an upgrade you still have the 16-bit processor that can handle the existing software. And then there are the programs that are developed for the 32-bit chip.
DATA WELT: Should there also be the option of being able to install different operating systems such as UNIX or MS-DOS?
Jack Tramiel: That, too. I'm trying to make the machine as international as possible in the world of programming languages and operating systems. There are already three operating systems: TOS or GEM DOS, CP/M and BOS. There will be a few more. For example, we have made a contract with AT&T for the use of UNIX. We have definitely decided to release 32-bit expansion modules with UNIX as the operating system.
DATA WORLD: Will AT&T sell your computer with UNIX as an AT&T computer or will you sell your ST with the AT&T UNIX!
Jack Tramiel: We will offer our computer with the AT&T UNIX.
DATA WELT: Digital Research had to change parts of GEM. You did not adopt the changes. Aren't you afraid of Apple?
Jack Tramiel: Apple didn't invent that kind of user interface, it actually came from the Xerox Star, and Xerox doesn't have any patents whatsoever on that kind of user interface. But Apple has a habit of scaring little people. Whenever someone tries to scare me, you can always wait to see who ends up scaring whom. That may be why Apple never told us to change anything about GEM - they just approached Digital Research. Well, DR decided to change certain details about GEM and told us about it. No one told us that we should change anything. If DR comes up with improvements to GEM that we like, we'll certainly adopt those.
DATA WELT: You advertise with the slogan 'Power without the price', when will there be printer power at reasonable prices from Atari? For example with laser printers?
Jack Tramiel: There will be an Atari laser printer before the end of 1986. I personally like the laser printers a lot, so I'm going to offer one. Although I don't know how many of my customers can afford a printer of this type for two, three thousand dollars, I want to have something like this in the program to show the strengths of our computer, which just shows what it can do when used with a laser printer. We also need the laser printer if the ST is going to be used in the office. And it will be quite an excellent laser printer!
DATA WELT: You spoke of two to three thousand dollars for this printer: that is a normal price and not a Tramiel-typical one ...
Jack Tramiel: You bet; my direct competitor Apple offers a laser printer for five thousand dollars, so $2,500 would be a good price.
DATA WELT: There is another new technology that could use your help in terms of large volumes at low prices. You already announced it: the CD-ROM. How about that at Atari?
Jack Tramiel: Our developments in this direction are completely finished - the device is ready for production. But while CD players for music are being offered for under $300 in some cases, CD-ROMS, the same technology from the same companies, are said to cost many times that - around $1,000. This simply doesn't fit with our philosophy of offering the device to customers for that amount of money when we know full well that it can be offered in six months for less than half that. That's why I'm waiting for the price of the necessary hardware to come down - and it will this year. In the meantime, companies like Activenture already offer CD-ROMs; that's fine with me, because they then only supply those customers who absolutely need a CD-ROM now and are willing to spend more. As I said, I'd rather wait until the fall of this year; then I can probably offer CD-ROMs for under 500 dollars.
DATA WELT: So you see a good chance that we will be able to put a cheap one under the tree for Christmas '86?
Jack Tramiel: a cost-effective one, not a cheap one! Probably already in autumn of this year.
DATA WELT: Germany plays an important role for Atari. At the moment Atari Germany is one of the biggest, if not the biggest representation outside the USA. Will there be an Atari production facility in Germany?
Jack Tramiel: Yes, as I already announced a year ago, we want to build our computers at two locations in the world: Once in the USA and also in Europe.
Germany has a good chance of getting an Atari production facility. At the moment, the sales figures are not yet high enough for such an expansion. Such a factory is only worthwhile if we can produce in a highly automated way, but the numbers are not yet large enough for that. We will make a decision for 1987 this year.
DATA WELT: Does the German market present a particular challenge for you?
Jack Tramiel: Yes, definitely. German customers are very quality-conscious, they always want the best. This critical attitude is a challenge; in countries where buyers are not so critical, I don't get the reaction to my products as quickly as I do in Germany. That's why I always support a country from which criticism of my products comes quickly.
DATA WELT: When you bought Atari, you got a company that was deep in the red. Where is Atari today?
Jack Tramiel: Atari is now a healthy, profitable company. We are recognized worldwide as a high technology company, Atari is no longer seen as a loss-making company, as a company that doesn't build serious computers, but only game machines - I have totally reversed the image of the company and also changed the economic basis so that Atari is profitable today. I am very happy that this worked out.
DATA WELT: So you are fully in the black?
Jack Tramiel: Yes, we are fully in the black.
DATA WELT: Will the many ST users who are satisfied with their computer have the opportunity to participate in Atari's success? Perhaps by being able to buy Atari stock starting in the fall of '86?
Jack Tramiel: One thing I have to say at the outset is that, because of our corporate philosophy, we do not have employees in the traditional sense, only partners. In fact, we plan to go public in the fall of '86. Our banks have made some proposals, but either way, if we issue shares, our customers will also have the opportunity to acquire shares.
DATA WORLD: When you left Commodore two years ago, you actually left right at the height of success. You left as a rich man, or at least as someone who didn't have to worry about making a living, who could spend the rest of his life doing anything. But after only six months, you bought Atari. Why?
Jack Tramiel: Actually, the goal for the previous twenty-eight years was to be able to retire at some point. Then, when I tried this life out - traveling with my wife to all the places I'd been before but never had time to get to know - I realized on day 78 that I was starting to get very bored. I realized that retirement was not for me. Especially after I visited some countries and saw what was happening in the computer industry. I saw that the whole computer business was going to stop, there would be no more innovation, because the Japanese quickly figured it out, we the American manufacturers were only planning new products, but not bringing them to market. I noticed that prices were slowly starting to go up. My business philosophy was disappearing. Especially at Commodore, the company I had built and hoped would continue my philosophy, no one was serving the customers who had made me rich. My friends, with whom I had worked for many years, encouraged me and said: Jack, we want to continue in your spirit, what are you going to do? And after not even six months, as you just said, but after only four months, we opened Tramiel Technology.
And two months later the Atari house banks called me and asked me if I wanted to buy Atari. By the way, the development of the ST didn't start at Atari, but was already in full swing at Tramiel Technology when I took over Atari.
DATA WELT: So if you hadn't bought Atari, you would have brought the ST onto the market in a different way?
Jack Tramiel: We would certainly have continued with Tramiel Technology.
DATA WELT: So Atari was not simply an investment for you, but a means to support the development of the ...
Jack Tramiel: ... Accelerate. Also, it was a big challenge to clean up the mess and see if we could do it or not. It was fun, it was also hard work, but that's life. ... However, if I had known beforehand exactly what kind of mess I would find at Atari, I might have preferred to continue running Tramiel Technology.
But, as you know, the greater the challenge, the greater the satisfaction when the task is accomplished.
It was a pleasure to start all over again, I just feel twenty years younger.
DATA WELT: Your three sons are all in important positions in the company. Do you think they will continue your work when you step down one day or God calls you away?
Jack Tramiel: Actually, my sons are already running the company. I'm actually primarily their advisor, which is exactly more important than if I were actually running the company. Sam is unquestionably the real president of Atari, and he's lucky to have someone like me. Just as I was glad to have a man like Irving Gould at Commodore to discuss decisions with. Sam benefits from the experience I've had over the past thirty years; it's like asking a great lexicore for advice.
DATA WELT: Is there a key to your success?
Jack Tramiel: To offer a good machine at a fair price. I think the biggest enemy of people in this world is greed. If you're honest, if you give your customers a clean product, if you give your partners and employees a fair share of the business, if you deal with your suppliers honestly and straightforwardly, you'll be successful.
You can't become a billionaire in the blink of an eye; it took me twenty-five years to achieve what I wanted to achieve with Commodore - it wasn't a matter of two and a half weeks, no, it took twenty-five years! There are people who say I can't plan - what do you call it when someone has worked twenty-five years towards a goal?
Long-term planning is extremely important. Sometimes we pack so much performance into a product that people don't believe us and think we are giving our product away just to get market share. That's never true: because our success is honesty.
DATA WELT: What advice would you give today to a young entrepreneur who wants to become self-employed - whether in the computer industry or not? What must he pay attention to, what must he avoid, in order to be successful like Jack Tramiel?
Jack Tramiel: All he has to do is copy me. I am an extremely good role model for young people. I am a person almost without education because of the circumstances in the war. In everything I did, I had to prove myself. I couldn't go anywhere and present a diploma and say: here's my diploma, so lend me a bunch of money. So I got the attitude that if I go to a banker, I have to prove to him that I can do what I'm going to do.
To an entrepreneur I would advise: be sure that your family supports you, they know you and can share your risk. Only then go to a stranger and ask for help. If you go to a dealer, give him your product, show that you can do it and only then set conditions. Prove yourself first; that's why it will take longer. But if you do it this way, you will be successful. And one last advice: if you are poor, work with the rich - if you are rich, work with the poor.
DATA WELT: There is a parallel with your career. I think of Iacocca, who is a manager but with a very entrepreneurial spirit - he came to Chrysler from Ford and saved the company. And just as you have since repaid Atari's debt, he has made Chrysler debt-free and profitable. Iacocca, much like you, is a symbol here in the United States. They say Iacocca wants to be president of the United States, at least that's what people have asked him to do. Does Jack Tramiel have any ambitions beyond Atari? Do you have any political plans? What can you do for the people, what can you offer them?
Jack Tramiel: No, I will never become a politician. Just because of my personal history, I can't become a nationalist, and I think a politician - at least in the U.S. - always has to be a bit of a nationalist, and that would be against my principles. On the last question, I can certainly help young people learn how to achieve, how to make money. What I would like to do is one day go into universities and colleges and tell my story to the students. I would like to see a way of doing business come back where the family, the individual is important - and not just how can we expand, how can we protect ourselves. I would like to share my experience: but not through political office.
DATA WELT: Thank you very much for the interview!
DATA WELT: A very important question moves us: Why did you leave Commodore? Is there a simple answer to this question?
Jack Tramiel: If you ask the people who have worked with me, they will tell you that I have changed virtually nothing in the last 25 years. I've always been one of them. Just because we were a billion-dollar company, we didn't have to throw money out the window like a billion-dollar company. Because, if you spend more, you have to raise prices. The man I worked for disagreed. When business was better, he wanted to spend more. That's one of the points where we disagreed. We also disagreed on the issue of financing. I felt that the moment our stock was trading high, we should have issued new stock; especially since we had never had an increase since we went public in 1962. With the $120 million we would have earned from 2 million new shares, we could have paid all our debts to the banks and strengthened the company's position. It would have allowed us to weather any storm without relying on the banks. The man I worked for thought this would dilute his share in the company and lose influence in the process - that was absolutely wrong. Those were the main reasons. In short, our philosophies were different. It got to the point where I said to him: Either I can run the company the way I think it should be run or I have to leave. I was told very kindly: If you don't want to do it the way I do, then leave. And I left.
DATA WELT: That was certainly not an easy step, after all, you founded the company.
Jack Tramiel: But of course it was very, very hard for me. But if I can't run the company the way I think it should be run, then it's no longer my company at all.
DATA WELT: Your fiercest competitors were probably always the Japanese. If Japanese investors came here and wanted to buy up Commodore in order to really get into the computer business with this name, would you reconsider and perhaps buy Commodore back?
Jack Tramiel: No, not because of the Japanese. Because the Japanese can only be successful in the computer business if people like me are no longer around. The Japanese only ever think long-term, they need a three-year plan or something. They are not innovative, so the only way they can be successful is if innovative people disappear from the industry.
