Interview with Robert Lazar
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(C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service
All Rights Reserved unless copyrighted by Author.
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Robert Lazar/Billy Goodman, KVEG-AM Radio 840
Based on its original three-hour, 11/21/89 broadcast, the following is KVEG's one-hour version, played at midnight 12/31/89 and at midnight 12/7/90:
Goodman: You came on the CBS affiliate here in Las Vegas, Channel 8, saying there are flying saucers not too far from here. I don't want to say Area 51, right?
Lazar: Right. It's Area S-4. A lot of people get that confused. It's about 10 miles south of Area 51, of Groom Lake, which is Area 51.
Goodman: When people try to get down that dirt road, they get stopped by cars and everything. What are they protecting there?
Lazar: Oh, Groom Lake -- that's Area 51.
A lot of projects are going on at Groom Lake -- Area 51: Aurora -- a high-altitude, reconnaissance aircraft designed to replace the SR-71, some Star Wars research --
But there aren't and never has been any flying saucers at Area 51 at Groom Lake.
Goodman: You have been at Area 51, so you can say that unequivocally, right?
Lazar: Oh yeah.
Goodman: Did you spend most of your time at S-4?
Lazar: Groom Lake/Area 51 has a runway there, so if you want to go out to that part of the Test Site, you fly in and land at Groom Lake and then you take a bus south to Area S-4.
Goodman: Have you actually landed on that airstrip at Groom Lake?
Lazar: Yeah, every time I went out there I HAD to land there.
Goodman: How often would you go out there?
Lazar: It wasn't on a regular basis. They called me up and said, well, Thursday by 4:45, be at such and such a place and get on this plane, and, you know, you'll be out there. I hadn't worked into a regular schedule yet.
Goodman: You're sitting at home and they say, you will be at a certain place at a certain time, or you will arrive there? How do you make sure you can make connections to get there at 4:45? Do they take care of all that for you too?
Lazar: No, I just have to show up there. If I can't make it, I just have to tell them or call them with sufficient notice.
Goodman: But they want you there for a specific reason because --
Lazar: -- well, to get on a specific flight.
Goodman: And they want you there at Groom Lake so you can get to S-4.
Lazar: Right.
Goodman: When you get there, what are they usually looking for you to do?
Lazar: That varied. Mainly educating me, catching me up to where everyone else was.
Goodman: Grooming you.
Lazar: Yeah.
Goodman: And what were they grooming you for, Bob?
Lazar: I dealt with mainly the propulsion of the extraterrestrial craft. There was a lot of material to read, a lot of briefings, a lot of research that had been done for quite some time that I had to catch up on before I could really get into it myself. So most of the time I spent reading and going over some things.
There was some hands-on experience with some of the equipment from the discs and things of that sort.
Goodman: Let's bring you back to the beginning. You're a young man, let's face it, you're a young man. What was your first reaction the first time you knew for a fact that we had flying saucers in our possession? You saw them with your own eyes. What was your first reaction to this?
Lazar: Oh, it was exciting! What else can you say? It was really neat. The first time I saw it and I walked in and actually saw the disc, of course I couldn't say whether or not it was an alien device or just an interesting craft that we've been developing. So it was a little while before I had ascertained that it was an extraterrestrial craft.
Goodman: Did they ever explain to you how it got there?
Lazar: No, that I was never told. But they just took things very slowly. First I was exposed to the craft, and then I began to read the briefings. And they were monitoring me through the whole time, so they let me take things one step at a time, as they do for everyone that works there.
Goodman: You got to be honest with me. Here you are a young man. You left there and you went home to the wife, to your neighborhood, sitting around having a cup of coffee. Did you ever say, hey man, you won't believe this, there are flying saucers!
Lazar: Oh, I stuck with "the program" for a little while.
Goodman: Well, what was "the program": Don't tell anybody?
Lazar: Oh, most certainly.
Goodman: Being inquisitive, I'm sure, as a young man, did you ever say, why is it that we can't tell anybody?
Lazar: No, because being involved with many other classified projects at the other labs that I worked with, you don't ask that. You just assume that they know what they're doing. You're privileged to be in that project, so --
Goodman: So you just felt honored being there.
Lazar: Exactly.
Goodman: And you'd get home and sit there with the wife at the dinner table and not even talk about it?
Lazar: Well, that didn't last for too long.
Goodman: I can imagine, I mean: "How was your day today, dear? Anything exciting happen?" What would you say?
Lazar: Not a whole lot. It caused a lot of friction, a tremendous amount.
Goodman: Because you couldn't speak up -- you couldn't talk about what was going on.
Lazar: Right.
Goodman: Is your title "scientist"?
Lazar: Physicist, but scientist is a good all-around description.
Goodman: As far as you're concerned, there is no extraterrestrial activity up at Area 51 or Groom Lake. Has that always been the case? Because I heard, and I also read government papers -- maybe they lied -- but they said that Area 51 was the area where the U-2 came out of.
Lazar: That's where the U-2 came out of, where the SR-71 came out of. Lots of things came out of there.
Maybe a disk went THROUGH there. But they're just not stored and developed/worked on there. Sure, one may have rolled by there and someone may have -- There have been lots of reports of people at Area 51 who have said, at one time I saw a disk in a hangar. That may have happened, but it wasn't there permanently.
Goodman: We took a group of people up there, about 200. And I was up there with them. I sat in the desert and I watched.
And here's how I could describe it. Picture the 29-1/2-mile Marker, and we're leaking out at these peaks. All of a sudden over the peak something comes up. It appears over the peak. It's just a light. And you watch this light and you see it doing ZIGZAGS!
Something's happened out there! Planes that we have that do those kind of maneuvers?
Lazar: Well, without seeing it, I can't say. But I know when the tests are.
Zelly: I watched you on the Channel 8 program, and my dog was barking when you were explaining the gravity theory.
These craft don't use any type of gasoline, is that right?
Lazar: Any type of GASOLINE?
Zelly: Yeah.
Lazar: No, they don't.
Zelly: Okay, how do they get from A to B?
Lazar: They bend space and time, using gravity.
Zelly: Can you explain that to a layman like me in as simple terms as possible?
Lazar: I can give a fairly accurate description. I haven't given this before, but I think this is the best one.
The crafts have three gravity amplifiers on the bottom of them. What they do, assuming that they're in space; it's just easier to get this across that way:
They will focus the three gravity amplifiers on the point they want to go to.
Now to give an analogy, take a thin rubber sheet, lay it on a table, and put thumbtacks in each corner. Take a big stone, set it on one end of the rubber sheet, and say that's your UFO or spacecraft.
Pick out a point you want to go to -- which could be anywhere on the rubber sheet -- pinch that point with your fingers, and pull that all the way up to the craft. That's how it focuses and pulls that point actually TO it.
When you then shut off the gravity generators, the stone or your spacecraft follows that stretched rubber back to its point. There's no linear travel through space; it actually bends space and time and follows space as it retracts.
Zelly: Is there a box on the craft that does this gravity focusing?
Lazar: It's a complete system; it's not a single little box.
Zelly: That's so hard to understand. Did you understand this easily? Did you comprehend this over months or years?
Lazar: No, it didn't really take very long. The concept is difficult to grasp.
Jeff from Canyon Lake, CA: Last Saturday night my cousin and I were out at Groom Lake, and we saw from the peak that I think you were describing, Billy, a very similar experience. We saw the lights originally over the top of the mountains and streak out to about a half a mile away from us and then just vanished. It lasted for seven to ten seconds. Then my cousin saw another sighting off to the south where your guest described the site.
What was weird -- I got out the camera and was just about ready to take a picture and it vanished from the center out! It became transparent and all of a sudden it was gone. It was like nothing that I've ever seen before. What could it have been?
Lazar: Without seeing it, I really can't say.
Goodman: There is a theory that they can dematerialize or all of a sudden be so quick to get away from you that you lose sight of it instantly. Is that true?
Lazar: You can lose sight of it without it even moving because -- just in view of the way things work -- when they warp time and space around the craft, they can actually --
This is the exact reason you can see stars behind the sun, because the sun has an intense gravitational field and it pulls space AROUND where you can begin to see the star behind it. It's just like in a disk: You can be looking straight up at it, and if the gravity generators are in the proper configuration, you'll just see the sky above it; you won't see the craft there. That's how there can be a group of people, and some people can be right under it and see it, and there can be people 100 feet off to the left and not see it. It just depends how the field is bent.
It's also the reason why the crafts APPEAR as if they're making ninety-degree turns at some incredible speed; it's just the time and space distortion you're seeing; you're not seeing the actual event happening.
Roger Number Two: Have you seen any aliens there?
Lazar: You know, I really don't want to talk about aliens at S-4. It's just a weird topic.
Roger: Three days ago on the Billy Goodman Happening, a worker at Mercury came on. Did you hear that show?
Lazar: No.
Roger: He went 3,000 feet underground, and when the elevator opened it was a stainless steel atmosphere. He's a worker laying electric wiring and lighting for this vast complex at Mercury. And he's been working there quite awhile.
He told of the Marines down there with fixed bayonets that herded them into certain areas, took them out of other areas. And one day, he saw some doctors there with white coats -- smocks -- and they were wheeling along on gurneys some aliens with big heads, small bodies, arms, and so forth.
Lazar: This is in Mercury?
Roger: Yes.
Lazar: That's a strange place for that to occur, though I have heard but do not have first-hand experience of any tunnels and things down there. Certainly, they have very deep tunnels and rooms under there for the nuclear tests. I don't know if they go down to 3,000 feet, though I think someone was just recently killed at 1,500 feet underground -- that was in the paper, so everyone knows they at least go down THAT deep.
Roger: The information I have is that most of the underground areas are about 1,000 meters.
Lazar: I really don't know how far they go down THERE. The thing that strikes me as unusual is you said there is a stainless steel atmosphere?
Roger: Yes. That's the way he described it. They were putting up sheets of stainless steel because apparently they drilled with some kind of machine in this vast complex underground in the tunnels, and they had to put something to COVER that.
Lazar: I understand what you're talking about now. In fact, I happen to know of somebody that drills those tunnels down there.
Roger: Are they the type that go through and push the top off the earth to the SIDE and have square corners to compact it, leaving no residue?
Lazar: I really don't remember how the person described it to me. I think it's a 24-foot-diameter drill that is driven, and it's hydraulically operated, and they just DRIVE the thing.
Roger: But it must not leave any residue then.
Lazar: Probably not. Either that or it channels it out backwards and is somehow relayed out of the hole.
Guardian Angel: Does Bob feel secure after he's left this out. I pray no one has made any attempt on you at all?
Lazar: Well, they made attempts on me before, but not since. And as far as feeling secure, no, I don't. I'm really waiting for the repercussions.
Guardian: I wish you would really stay close to the show with Billy. I think we would enjoy talking and asking questions of you. And you'd better believe that they would have to answer to us if all of a sudden you would come up [wrong.]
You said Wednesday nights are normally when these saucers are seen.
Lazar: Right.
Guardian: Can I ask you what your clearance was out there at S-4?
Lazar: I'd rather not say because the name is -- It's 38 levels above Q-Clearance, which is the highest civilian clearance; it is SUPPOSED to be the highest civilian clearance.
Goodman: It starts at Q and goes from there -- one, two, three? Is that how it works?
Lazar: I don't know what the intermediate levels are.
Goodman: You don't know if there are 37 others; it's just the number they gave you; is that correct?
Lazar: No, there ARE 37 others.
Kevin: I was interested in the condition and shape of the disk that he claims he saw up at Area S-4 on the Range.
Lazar: The condition and shape? The condition seemed new, as I said on the TV program. It seemed almost brand new, like I said, if I know what a new flying saucer looks like. As far as the shape, have you ever seen any of the Billy Meiers photographs?
Kevin: I've seen a couple, yes.
Lazar: There's one that it bears a striking resemblance to. It's one -- I coined the term the Sport Model. It doesn't have any weird protrusions; it's a slim, thin disk with ridges in it, and it bears an incredible resemblance to that; and I tend to think that it IS that disk.
Kevin: Approximate dimensions?
Lazar: Approximately 30-35 feet by 15 feet tall.
Kevin: How close were you allowed to be?
Lazar: I stood inside the doorway.
Kevin: Were you able to determine what the metallic makeup was?
Lazar: No.
Goodman: Did you touch it at any time?
Lazar: Oh yeah.
Goodman: What does it feel like?
Lazar: It feels like ordinary metal.
Goodman: Like aluminum?
Lazar: Can you feel the difference between steel and aluminum?
Goodman: Steel is colder than aluminum, I understand, to the feel.
Lazar: I'm not a metallurgist.
Goodman: Reports say there's a very thin feel to it.
Lazar: I didn't feel the thickness of it; I felt the outside. It could be a micron thick or a foot thick; I wouldn't know.
Goodman: You say you never saw the metal itself off to the side.
Lazar: Not pieces of it, just the disk itself.
Goodman: What was the disk doing?
Lazar: Sitting there.
Goodman: How was it sitting there? On the bottom?
Lazar: Yeah, it was on tripod legs; they were actually resting on the bottom of the disk.
Goodman: Were there people milling around it?
Lazar: Not at the time I walked up to it, no. There were people in the area, yeah.
Goodman: Is that the only one you ever saw?
Lazar: No, I saw the other ones but at a great distance.
Goodman: What were THEY doing?
Lazar: They were just parked in the hangars.
Goodman: Like an airplane.
Lazar: Essentially.
Goodman: You never saw them land or take off?
Lazar: No, never. I don't even know if they were operational.
Deadhead Dean: I took a class in quantum physics.
Lazar: That's a fun class, wasn't it?
Dean: Yeah, it was for me. But we studied a lot about gravity. We studied about gravitons.
Lazar: The theory of gravitons is wrong. But physics has always done that: Where there's a question, they create a particle. You must know what I'm talking about -- photons and things like that.
Dean: Have you found anything that confirms the existence of gravitons?
Lazar: No. Everything denied the existence of gravitons. Gravity is a WAVE, and there are actually two waves that are misconstrued as one force. And they're called Gravity A and B.
Dean: What's you general attitude about quantum physics and the quantum theory?
Lazar: That can last all night. If you want to talk to me privately about that, I'd be happy to talk to you.
Dean: I'm interested in how it connects with the Grand Unified Field Theory. We were told that if we could confirm the existence of some of these quantum particles, we could fit in --
Lazar: Right. I don't want to say my number over the air; that would be a disaster. You could write in care of the station, and Billy could get it to me and I could write back to you. The Unified Field Theory is a lot more simple; they say the BEAUTIFUL theory will be the Unified Field Theory; it is a lot simpler than physics is after right now.
Dean: On the KLAS show you said the extraterrestrial crafts you saw were from another solar system completely. Do you believe that because you know where they are from or because you just ruled out any of the other planets in the solar system as habitable?
Lazar: No, that's because I know where they're from.
Goodman: Where are you actually working right now, Bob?
Lazar: I have my own company; I work for myself.
Goodman: Are you inventing things? What do you do?
Lazar: I'd rather not say.
Goodman: That's your privilege, sir. I just thought I'd give you a plug, if it's a business.
Lazar: I still conduct business with the Government in a technical aspect.
Goodman: A consultant-type thing maybe?
Lazar: You could say that.
ETC: Does "M42" mean anything to you?
Lazar: Not of the top of my head.
ETC: Okay, very good. How do you rate Hawkings?
Lazar: Stephen Hawkings? There's a lot I could say about him. A lot of the basic theory is incorrect. But he's a very thorough guy. Have you read his book?
ETC: Yes I have. I'm an experimental researcher.
You're a physicist. Now, how far back do you go as far as traveling backwards through time? Can you go to the Big Bang theory and then subscribe to it?
Lazar: I'll go with the Big Bang theory, but there are so many other variables, so many other things really could have happened, that's more of a cosmology viewpoint. I'm concerned mainly with particle physics, high-energy physics, and that sort of thing.
ETC: Isn't that where it all began?
Lazar: Yeah it is. But when you're talking on a macro scale like that, you're sliding out of my field of expertise. I do subscribe to the Big Bang theory; there WAS a big bang. Where the initial particle came from -- there's a great debate about that.
ETC: Could you give me an estimate where they're getting creation versus evolution? Was the big bang a part of evolution or was it a part of creation? And was there a creation or an evolution before that?
Lazar: Well, that's a chicken or the egg question, to me. I would say that the big bang was followed by a natural evolution, though I don't think things just evolved to where everything is now without interaction.
ETC: Very good. I guess I'm going back too far. You seem to be a real logical scientist; you don't want to go out on a limb with theories; you want to stick to facts.
Lazar: I'd really rather do that.
ETC: And that's very good. And what IS the fact? How far can you really trace us back, to absolutes, where you drop off from absolutes into your theories?
Lazar: Probably from the instant of detonation of the big bang.
ETC: That's microseconds, right?
Lazar: I'd say even before that.
ETC: Okay, very good.
Lazar: It might go into --
ETC: Do you feel the new telescopes coming up into space will help solve that mystery?
Lazar: Oh yeah. It will certainly pose a lot more questions though.
Goodman: What is this Big Bang theory?
Lazar: How the universe was initiated. I think the way that was detected was, someone looked and just happened to notice that all the galaxies were moving AWAY from a certain point at certain speeds. And they did a computer analysis and, I'm not really sure how this progressed, but they were able to reverse the directions and everything came to a single point. And they assumed that there was at one time an unbelievable massive particle that exploded.
Goodman: Like a meteorite-type thing? Bigger than that?
Lazar: Actually smaller than that. It gets really crazy.
Goodman: But this thing that did explode . . .
Lazar: Right, there was a tremendous explosion. It threw EVERYTHING out; gases and things condensed into matter and essentially formed the universe: that's the Big Bang theory.
Goodman: How many flying saucers have you seen?
Lazar: Nine.
Goodman: And you know for a fact they did not come from here, right? Or where do you think they came from originally?
Lazar: I didn't see them delivered. My best guesstimation is that they came from another, well, another world.
Goodman: And when they are flown in this S-4 area, are they flown by aliens or by military pilots?
Lazar: They're either flown by remote control or flown by military pilots. I say either remote control or people because I did not actually see who got into the disk.
Goodman: Did it look like there was a lot of room in the disk? How large were these things?
Lazar: No, there's not that much room inside.
Goodman: You'd have to be small, I would imagine.
Lazar: Right.
Space Case: I heard John Lear talking about drugs and hypnosis being used on individuals that are working with the ET project. Do you confirm that?
Also, when the guys were at the Red Rock area or wherever the vortex is at Blue Point, someone said they had a scar on their shoulder or arm after the encounter. John mentioned that anyone who was involved or abducted, drugs and hypnosis were used on him. Do you know anything about that? Is it possible that group could have been abducted by people involved with the project, why they lost time, and why some of them had scars, like maybe there was a hyper- or gravity or something like that?
Lazar: I have no information on abductions.
The drugs and hypnosis: Now, I found out about this -- though supposedly this happened to me -- I found out about this through regressive hynosis. I had vivid memory of everything, but there were a couple of days that I only remembered going out on a plane and coming back on a plane, and I thought it was really strange.
I decided to try a clinical hypnotist. His name is Layne Keck at Serenus Clinic here in Las Vegas. He had no idea what we were talking about -- anything to do with UFOs. I wanted to go with someone that was completely unbiased.
And I just stepped back under hypnosis ENTIRE DAYS so I could read -- re-read the reports and things and get things a little clearer.
And there was just an INTENSE drilling period of rhythmic yells in a room with some guys continuously threatening me. I said -- under hypnosis -- I was drinking something that smelled like pine, which even sounds strange to me, but I heard myself on tape, and as I describe this -- I'm not that familiar with hypnosis -- but Layne said it's similar to something the military uses called "The Orion Method," some sort of regimented hypnosis.
Space Case: John said that's why most of this stuff there is kept secret, because the people that work there -- when they first go up there -- are indoctrinated with the drugs and the hypnosis.
And then when they leave the site or wherever they're working on this stuff, they go back to their normal way of living and have no memory of it.
Then when they come back into the security, they walk through a room or something triggers them into a trance or regimen again. And then they work under hypnosis having no memory.
Then when they come back into the real world, they forget again.
And that's why these people can go on these missions and go down to Africa and pick up these saucers, nobody having any record or memory of it at all. Does that make sense to you at all?
Lazar: That sounds cool, but I don't know. I can't confirm or deny that.
Obviously, something is done, something WAS done in the area of hynosis to me, and I'm sure, other people that work there. But whether they can turn you on or off, I really don't know. Maybe they can do that. It sounds even far-fetched to me, but I really don't know.
Goodman: You don't think it's possible that as you arrive in the morning, the effects have worn off, and you get in there and you do your job.
Lazar: I can't say anything is impossible anymore because I keep finding out different. Sure that's possible. But I'm a nuts-and-bolts guy and I can't say, as a matter of fact that is true and that's false. I don't know.
Goodman: But there must be some power that they have over everybody, Bob, that they leave there everyday, go back to their families; something has to occur.
Lazar: Yeah, but how come I had total memory of most of the stuff I was involved in then?
Goodman: I'm not saying you, per se. I'm saying other people up there. There must be something where they have a way of controlling them, so that when they leave there they forget or they just go into something else.
Lazar: Right. I have a hard time believing everyone can adhere to "the program." I mean, how strong can you possibly be? Yeah, there must be a way. It can't be just threats.
Tim: Are you familiar with the latest scientific evidence: Right in the center of our Milky Way galaxy there's a black hole --
Lazar: Black hole, yeah. That's not very late; they theorized that awhile ago. As a matter of fact, it's now thought that in the center of EVERY galaxy there's a black hole.
Tim: How sure are they that they have one in ours?
Lazar: I really don't know.
Tim: You said you stepped in the doorway of the spaceship. Did you actually step onto the spaceship?
Lazar: Yes.
Tim: Did it make a sound when you stepped on it?
Lazar: No.
Tim: What color was the inside interior?
Lazar: It was all the same color as the outside -- just a dull aluminum finish, is the best way I can describe it.
Tim: When you worked for this agency, what method did they use to pay you? Did they send you a check every two weeks, or what?
Lazar: Checks, yeah.
Tim: Do you have the check stubs?
Lazar: I don't want to talk about that right now.
Tim: But you got paid by check?
Lazar: Right.
Tim: You said the way the aliens travel in the spaceships they generate the gravity, and it pulls one side of the universe towards it --
Lazar: Yeah, I wouldn't go as far as the universe, but a great distance toward it, yeah. They can't exert a gravitational field throughout the universe -- just some limited distance -- I don't know what it is.
Tim: But do they do it toward the Earth?
Lazar: No, toward the craft, wherever the craft is.
Tim: When they want to go to Earth, they aim it toward the Earth?
Lazar: Right.
Tim: Do you think this is the reason why I occasionally feel dizzy?
Lazar: I doubt it.
Tim: If you built a spaceship that travels at the speed of light and you turn on the headlights, what would happen?
Lazar: Exactly what would happen if you had a spacecraft, for instance, traveling at the speed of light and you were sitting on the front of it and you fired a bullet that also moved at the speed of light. People ask, how fast does that bullet move in relation to a stationary object? And the layman would say, twice the speed of light. But no, nothing ever exceeds the speed of light because mass increases and so on and so forth.
But if you're a spacecraft, of course it can travel AT the speed of light, but if it APPROACHES it, can you turn your headlights on? They don't do very much good.
Chris: I theorized that gravity transcends conventional space-time, and that a massive object at one end of the universe is attracting instantaneously objects at other parts of the universe -- extremely subtle effect, obviously, how many angels on the head of a needle.
And I have one question about Fleischman and Pons.
Lazar: That's an interesting group.
Gravity propagates instantly, by the way.
Chris: I've been interested in theoretical physics for the last 20 years; I've driven myself crazy. And I disagree with Steven Hawkings too.
Lazar: I don't want to shoot down Steven Hawkings; he's a brilliant man. There are some basic physics that are wrong.
Chris: Could you comment on Fleischman and Pons? I maintain that they are correct and that this hass been covered up by the oil companies.
Lazar: I don't agree with that.
Chris: In the fusion method that they're using, obviously we don't have a football-sized-field machine creating their fusion, so electro- chemical-reaction fusion seems to me very plausible, rather than inertial magnetic confinement.
Lazar: Inertial magnetic confinement is garbage, and so is laser fusion. It's ridiculous.
Laser fusion is totally stupid. The concept is there, but the materials aren't, and to start a laser reaction the lasers have to fire MANY times a minute. We can initiate a reaction -- I think our best laser is Shiva [sp] down at Livermore. I think that has to cool down for several hours. It's a tremendous waste of money.
Dennis in L.A.: I'm a member of the Operating Engineers, Local 12. I work in the Los Angeles area. Is Reynolds Electric part of that base out there?
Lazar: No, Reynolds is not out there, and neither is any other subcontractor -- Reynolds, EG&G --
Dennis: Are they up in Tonopah?
Lazar: Reynolds is at the Test Site proper, the nuclear test site. I'm not that familiar. The highest clearance they can attain is Q, through REECO and EG&G and those guys. So the closest they get is down to Area 51 and roam around there.
Gary: You said you came public with this information to protect yourself.
Lazar: Yeah.
Gary: How serious is this? What length will the Government go to conceal this?
Lazar: Oh man, you must be kidding! Everything possible! I can't even describe it. Any length at all. I don't even know what to say to answer that.
Gary: What's on your horizon now, as far as the Government's concerned? Aren't they gonna want to talk to you?
Lazar: I think that would be a really strange thing for them to do. Any action on their part right now would guarantee what I'm saying is true. So I think now it's going to be a hands-off policy, which is just absolutely fine with me. That's the only thing I wanted.
It's only been a week since anything has gone on. In fact, someone said, if they're following me now, it's to make sure nothing happens to me.
Gary: I heard you speak of Blue Diamond before. What's going on there?
Lazar: I love this subject! That's where the "vortex" is. There is no vortex. Blue Diamond is a place where people gather to look at supposedly an entry-way for flying saucers. They don't enter through that. If you want to see a vortex, I suggest you flush your toilet and look inside.
There's a gravity anomaly there -- a slight difference in gravity, the gravitational wave there -- but those are all over the place. It has nothing with anything.
Goodman: Is it because you know the past record of the Government, how they react to situations? If someone becomes more public, they tend not to do something that would cause them problems?
Lazar: No, I don't know that for a fact. I'm just HOPING that.
Gene Huff (in studio with Lazar): Billy, I think there's a minor misunderstanding here. I think people have gotten the impression that he was in "the program," actively in there and for some reason he decided he was in trouble and just decided to get out.
All of this stems from them beginning not -- Again, he just went out there on a periodic basis -- more or less on call. And after he got caught out there showing John Lear, myself, and the other people the flying saucer tests, after that they debriefed him, and after that they continued to monitor his phone. His phone was tapped. And what they wanted to stop -- and why he thinks they might do something -- is, they THREATENED him. And they called him on the phone and threatened him because they were monitoring basically his plan for the exposure of this.
And that's what they wanted to stop. In fact, we've got the word through the grapevine that they're amazed; they don't know what to do because they've never had someone that used drugs, used hypnosis, drilled in their head not to come forward with this, and they can't believe that a guy actually went on television. And they're really at a loss for what to do.
