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GEnieLamp A2Pro - Vol.4, Issue 26
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|| |||||| || || |||||| RoundTable
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~ WELCOME TO GENIELAMP A2Pro! ~
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""
~ Information Overload ~ ADB Questions ~
~ Aztec C For ProDOS? ~ ORCA/Debugger in GNO/ME ~
~ A Quicker Cosine ~ Shell Utilities ~
~ New Toolbox Reference Manuals? ~
~ HOT NEWS, HOT FILES, HOT MESSAGES ~
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////////////////////
GEnieLamp A2Pro ~ A T/TalkNET Publication ~ Vol.4, Issue 26
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Publisher................................................John F. Peters
Editor...................................................Tim Buchheim
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////////////////////
~ GEnieLamp IBM ~ GEnieLamp ST ~ GEnieLamp PowerPC ~
~ GEnieLamp A2Pro ~ GEnieLamp Macintosh ~ GEnieLamp TX2 ~
~ GEnieLamp Windows ~ GEnieLamp A2 ~ LiveWire (ASCII) ~
~ Member Of The Digital Publishing Association ~
GE Mail: GENIELAMP Internet: genielamp@genie.com
////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>>> WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE APPLE A2Pro ROUNDTABLE? <<<
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
~ May 1, 1995 ~
FROM MY DESKTOP ......... [FRM] HEY MISTER POSTMAN ...... [HEY]
Notes From The Editor. Is That A Letter For Me?
A2PRO ROUNDTABLE STAFF .. [DIR] DEVELOPERS CORNER ....... [DEV]
Directory of A2Pro Staff. News From Online Developers.
LIBRARY BIT BONANZA ..... [LIB] RTC WATCH ............... [RTC]
HOT Files You Can Download. Real Time Information.
LOG OFF ................. [PUB]
GEnieLamp information.
[IDX]"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
READING GEnieLamp GEnieLamp has incorporated a unique indexing
""""""""""""""""" system to help make reading the magazine easier.
To utilize this system, load GEnieLamp into any ASCII word processor
or text editor. In the index you will find the following example:
HUMOR ONLINE ............ [HUM]
[*]GEnie Fun & Games.
To read this article, set your find or search command to [HUM]. If
you want to scan all of the articles, search for [EOA]. [EOF] will take
you to the last page, whereas [IDX] will bring you back to the index.
MESSAGE INFO To make it easy for you to respond to messages re-printed
"""""""""""" here in GEnieLamp, you will find all the information you
need immediately following the message. For example:
(SMITH, CAT6, TOP1, MSG:58/M530)
_____________| _____|__ _|___ |____ |_____________
|Name of sender CATegory TOPic Msg. Page number|
In this example, to respond to Smith's message, log on to page
530 enter the bulletin board and set CAT 6. Enter your REPly in TOPic 1.
A message number that is surrounded by brackets indicates that this
message is a "target" message and is referring to a "chain" of two
or more messages that are following the same topic. For example: {58}.
ABOUT GEnie GEnie's monthly fee is $8.95 which gives you up to four hours
""""""""""" of non-prime time access to most GEnie services, such as
software downloads, bulletin boards, GE Mail, an Internet gateway,
multi-player games and chat lines. GEnie's non-prime time connect rate is
$3.00 an hour. To sign up for GEnie, just follow these simple steps.
1. Set your communications software to half duplex (local echo) 8 bits, no
parity and 1 stop bit, at 300, 1200 or 2400 baud.
2. Call (with modem) 1-800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH.
3. Wait for the U#= prompt. Type: JOINGENIE and hit RETURN. When you
get the prompt asking for the signup/offer code, type: DSD524 and hit
RETURN.
4. Have a major credit card ready, as the system will prompt you for your
information. If you need more information, call GEnie's Customer Service
department at 1-800-638-9636.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
[EOA]
[FRM]//////////////////////////////
FROM MY DESKTOP /
/////////////////////////////////
Notes From My Desktop
"""""""""""""""""""""
by Tim Buchheim
[A2PRO.GELAMP]
o TOP OF THE PAGE
>>> TOP OF THE PAGE <<<
"""""""""""""""""""""""
INFORMATION OVERLOAD For the past few months, I've been suffering
"""""""""""""""""""" information overload. The bad part is that it has
made me slow to complete important things like homework, chores, and most importantly, GEnieLamp. :( On the other hand, I have hopefully been
absorbing some of this information thrown at me, and maybe I'll be able to
use it. For example, GEnie's new Internet access will allow us GEnie users (including myself) to keep up with newsgroups, such as the programming-
oriented "comp.sys.apple2.programmers", or download the newest programs
from FTP sites like "grind.isca.uiowa.edu"!
Wait! Internet access? From GEnie?
That's right! As of April 11, GEnie users now have expanded Internet
access. For several years, GEnie has provided Internet email at no extra
cost, but now we have access to Telnet, FTP, Gopher, Lynx, as well as a
few lesser-known utilities, such as Finger. The only two things missing
are Usenet newsgroups (which for now can be read in lynx, but GEnie is
currently working on an interface for offline readers as well as an online
interface) and SLIP/PPP access (for graphical web browsers, such as
Netscape and Mosaic). Of course, SLIP/PPP access is not useful for Apple
II users until someone out there writes the software to use it -- so start coding!! :)
Back on GEnie, in the A2Pro Bulletin Board, there has been quite a bit of
activity recently. Much of it has been in Category 8, Topic 5, entitled
"Using the GS Device Drivers", where a discussion is taking place
concerning the possibility of writing a driver to mount virtual disks from
disk images stored on hard disk.
Several people asked me why I left this out of last month's issue. Well,
there are two answers, both of which have to do with the fact that these
messages, when loaded into WordWorks Pro, are over 150 kilobytes in size.
First of all, it would take days just to edit all these messages to put
them into the clean, logical, uncluttered [*] format used in GEnieLamp.
Second, GEnieLamp A2Pro averages about 60 kilobytes in length. If I
had included this particular discussion, it would be about 200 kilobytes.
I'm sure many of you out there wouldn't want to take the time to download
such a huge file (especially if you're using a 2400 baud modem!) So
instead of repeating ALL of it here, I'll just direct you towards
Category 8, Topic 5 of A2Pro's BB. It's worth reading, and hopefully at
least one of the people working on this project will come up with a
usable program. One or two of them already have disk image mounters
working.. let's hope that one of them is finished and released to the
public so we can all have such a cool program :)
Enjoy this issue, and I hope to see you around.. on GEnie, or out there
on the 'net!
Tim Buchheim
GEnieLamp A2Pro
[*] Well, at least I hope you find it clean, logical, and
uncluttered. :) If you don't, please tell me... I'd
like GEnieLamp A2Pro to be as easy to read as possible.
[*][*][*]
Do you have something to say about GEnieLamp A2Pro? Please
post any questions or comments you may have in Category 1,
Topic 15 in A2Pro's BB (m530;1). Or, feel free to talk to me
(A2PRO.GELAMP) anytime you see me in a Real Time Conference.
Readers out there on the Internet: feel free to email me at
a2pro.gelamp@genie.com When writing, please tell me where
you got your copy of GEnieLamp, if it wasn't on GEnie. I'm
always interested to see how many places GEnieLamp ends up :)
[*][*][*]
[EOA]
[DIR]//////////////////////////////
A2PRO ROUNDTABLE STAFF /
/////////////////////////////////
______________________________________________
APPLE II PROGRAMMERS & DEVELOPERS ROUNDTABLE
_____ ______ ______________________________________________
/_____|/______\
/__/|__| ___|__| Head Sysop: Hangtime (HANGTIME)
/__/_|__| /_____/ Your Sysops: Greg Da Costa (A2PRO.GREG)
/________|/__/ __ __ __ Todd P. Whitesel (A2PRO.TODDPW)
/__/ |__|__/______ /_//_// / Nathaniel Sloan (A2PRO.HELP)
/__/ |__|________// / \/_/ Tim Buchheim (A2PRO.GELAMP)
[*][*][*]
[EOA]
[HEY]//////////////////////////////
HEY MISTER POSTMAN /
/////////////////////////////////
Is That A Letter For Me?
""""""""""""""""""""""""
By Tim Buchheim
[A2PRO.GELAMP]
o BULLETIN BOARD HOT SPOTS
o WHAT'S NEW
o PROGRAMMER'S TIPS
o MESSAGE SPOTLIGHT
>>> BULLETIN BOARD HOT SPOTS <<<
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
[*] CAT1, TOP16, MSG{59}..........A2Pro Contests!
[*] CAT4, TOP12, MSG{31}..........C and/or C++ for the Apple //e
[*] CAT8, TOP5, MSG{119}.........Using the GS Device Drivers
[*] CAT11, TOP8, MSG{64}..........Programming Algorithms and Structures
[*] CAT15, TOP9, MSG{49}..........ADB Tool Set
>>> WHAT'S NEW <<<
""""""""""""""""""
A NEW CONTEST! Dear Apple IIgs User,
""""""""""""""
Recently, while working on the new Apple IIgs front end for GEnie, our
Front End Project Manager had a disturbing thought. "Wait a second! We
don't yet have a name for my masterpiece of Apple IIgs programming, this
GEnie front end!" Immediately, he stopped eating his Doritos and drinking
his Genny to think of a clever name for his project.
Naturally, this disturbed us to no end; after all, if our PM isn't
eating Doritos nor drinking Genny, chances are that he's not programming
either. And, with our projected release date barely a month away, we knew
we had to do something.
Then, A2Pro Assistant SysOp Tim Buchheim (A2PRO.GELAMP) had an idea.
"I know!" he virtually shouted. "Let's have a contest! We can let GEnie
members suggest names for the program, and then everyone will get a vote.
That way, -everyone- gets a chance to name the front end, and our PM can go
back to what he does best; that is, finish the software!"
Tim's suggestion has been soundly applauded... and it is in this spirit
that A2Pro presents...
The "Name the Apple IIgs Front End" Contest!
That's right! From now until May 15th, A2Pro will be accepting
applications for the front end's name. Submit your ideas in EMail to
A2PRO.HELP. On May 15th, a complete list will be posted in alphabetical
order. Voting will ensue, and will last until May 31st. The winners will
be announced along with the front end on June 1st (or thereabouts).
The winner shall be the name which wins.
OK, well, seriously. Whoever gets the most votes (one vote per person
or account only, please!) wins eternal fame, as their front end name
suggestion will be used on the product. In addition, they will receive a
US$9.00 GEnie usage credit. Also, two runners-up will be awarded credits
of US$6.00 each. These three users will be listed in the front end's "Read
Me" file as well.
So, get those entries sent to A2PRO.HELP as soon as possible! Also,
watch the A2 and A2Pro bulletin boards on May 15th to learn what choices
are available!
(A2PRO.HELP, CAT1, TOP16, MSG:59/M530)
>>> PROGRAMMER'S TIPS <<<
"""""""""""""""""""""""""
A QUICKER COSINE A person with whom I've had some e-mail discussions has
"""""""""""""""" come up with a fast integer cosine function in Pascal.
If you have an inclination for numbers, this is quite a boon! I'll let him
describe what he's doing, why he's doing it, and put the code with some of
the output at the end. You can reach this amazing II person, Ross A.
Falconer, at ROSSNE@aol.com.
Michael
--------------
I came up with the idea for the fast integer cosine function after getting
excited about doing a 3D CAD program for the GS.....
I was originally going to approximate the transcendentals with
fast forier series, but after I tried it I only got a 300% speed increase,
being forced to use real numbers. I started up Modulae from FTA and stared
at the screen for about an hour. I was wishing I knew what they knew about
fast table using routines, but then I decided I could do the Forier series
with integers, and about 40 hours later I had the function! It was very
hard to keep the accuracy over the entire range of the function because of
being forced to use integer division (the div operator). However, the 25
fold speed increase was promising, so I kept at it. Now that I understand
what is involved, I think all of the transcendentals could be approximated
using integer forier series. Also, another 4 or 5 digits of accuracy should
only carry about a 50% speed penalty-not too bad.
It's accurate to less than 1/50 degree in the first quadrant (actually
between 0 & pi/4) and is better than 25 times as fast as a vanilla
Cos(real) function. I think this is the best trade-off between the accuracy
of real numbers and the speed of integers. I use longints for my coordinate
system so it is relatively easy to implement this formula. Fixed math would
make it very simple and requires less memory?. I am interested in how this
compares to the speed of a lookup table. I am sure this will be easier to
implement than a lookup table accurate to 1/50 of a degree? Comparing
integer addition on a 7 Mhz TWGS in ORCA Pascal 2.1 to integer addition in
Visual Basic on a DX4/75, the IIGS is about 150% faster. Comparing integer
cosines on the IIGS to real cosines on the 486DX4/75, the 486 is about 100
times as fast.
I am interested in how fast this method is compared to using tables, all
other things being equal. How many times the current 1000 cosines per
second on TWGS @ 7 Mhz do you think is possible in assembly, etc? If you
could use a suite of integer transcendentals and the technique throws you,
I could be persuaded to finish them. Feel free to post my source on genie,
I hope to put to use the experience of others myself before long. :)
{ORCA/Pascal 2.1 }
{Copyright 1987,1988,1991,1993,1994, Byte Works, Inc. }
{Integer cosine formula by Ross A. Falconer April 12, 1995 }
{Advanced Design Services }
{800-859-7568 }
{This formula increases the speed of cosine calculation by 25 times. }
{Calculates 1000 cosines per second instead of 40 on a 7 mhz TWGS! }
{Accurate within 1/50 of 1 degree between 0 < c < pi/4. }
{Time it yourself! }
program SpeedCos(output);
const
pi = 3.1415927;
var
counter : integer;
rad : real;
degrees : real;
d : real;
c : longint;
e : longint;
k : longint;
delta : real;
degree : real;
maxdeg : real;
begin
writeln('Start.');
maxdeg := 0.0;
for counter := 1 to 79 do begin
rad := counter / 100;
degrees := rad * 180 / 3.1415927;
d := cos(rad);
c := counter * 10;
k := (c * c) div 20;
e := 100000 - k + k div 200 * k div 3000;
delta := (e/100000 - d);
degree := delta * 180 / pi;
if abs(degree) > maxdeg then
maxdeg := abs(degree);
writeln(' radians: ',rad:7:5);
writeln(' degrees: ',degrees:5:3);
writeln(' cos(real): ',d:7:5);
writeln('cos(integer): ',e:7);
writeln(' delta: ',delta:6:5);
writeln(' degree: ',degree:6:5);
writeln;
end;
writeln;
writeln('maximum error in degrees: ', maxdeg:6:5);
writeln('Done!');
writeln;
writeln;
end.
Taken directly from the shell:
Start.
radians: 0.01000
degrees: 0.573
cos(real): 0.99995
cos(integer): 99995
delta: 0.00000
degree: 0.00000
radians: 0.02000
degrees: 1.146
cos(real): 0.99980
cos(integer): 99980
delta: -0.00000
degree: -0.00000
radians: 0.03000
degrees: 1.719
cos(real): 0.99955
cos(integer): 99955
delta: -0.00000
degree: -0.00000
.
.
.
radians: 0.77000
degrees: 44.118
cos(real): 0.71791
cos(integer): 71817
delta: 0.00026
degree: 0.01486
radians: 0.78000
degrees: 44.691
cos(real): 0.71091
cos(integer): 71121
delta: 0.00030
degree: 0.01699
radians: 0.79000
degrees: 45.264
cos(real): 0.70385
cos(integer): 70417
delta: 0.00032
degree: 0.01860
maximum error in degrees: 0.01860
Done!
(ANIMASIA, CAT11, TOP8, MSG:64/M530)
>>>>> One thing you can do to speed it up without going to assembly is to
""""" replace the standard ORCA library functions for things like
division with faster versions of the same algorithm (these are usually
larger, you don't get things for free...), either by linking them in
explicitly so the libraries are not searched for the function, or by
patching the system libraries (I don't really recommend this latter option,
I prefer my libs to be unspoiled).
Todd Whitesel
(A2PRO.TODDPW, CAT11, TOP8, MSG:65/M530)
>>>>> I'm impressed that he came up with this COS function on his own,
""""" but hitting the books would have saved him a lot of time and given
better results. A Forrier series expansion does not give the smallest
error over a fixed range of the function for a fixed number of terms.
Instead, polynomials with cooefficeints that differ very slightly from
Forrier series coefficients are used. Also, it's generally best to use a
ratio of polynomials for very accurate results. (You can get the accuracy
without using a ratio, but you get the same accuracy with fewer
calculations using the ratio.)
For details, see:
Computer Approximations
Hart, et. al.
Robert E. Krieger Publishing Co.
1978
This one gives precomputed tables. You pick an accuracy, and then look up
the appropriate coeffiecients and formulas.
Software Manual for the Elementary Functions
Cody & Waite
Prentice-Hall
1980
This one is more readable, but doesn't give you the tables.
Mike Westerfield
(BYTEWORKS, CAT11, TOP8, MSG:66/M530)
<<<<< I'm impressed that he came up with this COS function on his own, but
""""" hitting the books would have saved him a lot of time and given
better results.
Probably. What I think he's trying to do is go for speed with moderate
accuracy. (Fixed-point math with 16 bits limits you to only 4 decimal
places of accuracy.) Still, I'm going to forward your reply. I may even
check out your sources myself :)
Michael
(ANIMASIA, CAT11, TOP8, MSG:67/M530)
>>>>> > What I think he's trying to do is go for speed with moderate
""""" > accuracy.
Right. And those tables I mentioned recognize that possibility. For the
COS function alone, the tables list 38 different polinomials and algorithm
alternatives, ranging from 1st order polynomials to 10th order, and from an
accuracy of 2.39 digits to 23.06 digits. They even discuss the relative
merrits of the various algorithms for standard binary floating point
implementations (like SANE or the 68882), fixed point machines (like the
case we're discussing) and decimal machines (think Cobol or a BCD math
machine). About the only problem I've had with them is I once needed more
accuracy than the tables deliver. :)
FWIW, these books are the ones I used to develop the floating point package
in the 8 bit ORCA/M. They are at least twice as fast as SANE, and with the
exception of a few cases more or less in league with the Pentium chip's
problems, they are as accurate as SANE. (Many of the subroutines are far
more than twice as fast as SANE, too. That's the smallest difference I've
seen.) I'd highly recommend the pair of books to anyone who's interested
in the implementation of floating-point or fixed point functions.
One more interesting aside: Very few languages deal with the issue of
functions other than the standard trig and log functions and their
relatives. A few might deal with hyperbolic trig functions, but that's
about it. These books go further, showing how to create fast, accurate
functions for the likes of Bessel functions and eliptic integrals. Now who
could live without those?
Mike Westerfield
(BYTEWORKS, CAT11, TOP8, MSG:68/M530)
>>>>> Hey, Mike... cool sounding books. I printed out your note and will
""""" dialup the St. Louis library after I get done with GEnie stuff
tonight.
JABouchard "Poindexter"
Delivered by: CoPilot v2.55
(J.BOUCHARD3, CAT11, TOP8, MSG:69/M530)
>>> MESSAGE SPOTLIGHT <<<
"""""""""""""""""""""""""
AZTEC C FOR ProDOS? I recently acquired Manx's Aztec C v1.05C. Talk about
""""""""""""""""""" getting back to basics! It seems to be a fine K&R
implementation for the 8-bit // (I love being able to mix p-code and native
code), but it's, yes, DOS 3.3.... Can anyone confirm if the ProDOS version
ever made it out? And if anyone would have copies that they could upgrade
me?
Michael
(ANIMASIA, CAT4, TOP12, MSG:31/M530)
>>>>> Yes, there was a ProDOS version - I've used it. Unfortunately, it
""""" doesn't seem to work reliably on a IIgs, although the compiled
programs it generates _seem_ to work OK. I wasn't able to completely track
down the incompatibility, but something would crash while making ProDOS
calls.
I can't help you with the upgrade, though -- it was just a loaner.
Mike
(M.HACKETT, CAT4, TOP12, MSG:32/M530)
>>>>> There was a Manx Aztec C for ProDOS. It was advertised in an old
""""" Nibble magazine from Oct 88. I couldn't figure out why it wasn't
already in my software library, until noticing the $299 price tag. That is
the dos 3.3 and ProDOS version. The DOS 3.3 version listed for $199. Never
actually seen either, but it looks like an ad for a real product. No
version numbers were listed. Your quest has a destination.
- James - [IMAGE]
(J.GRAY38, CAT4, TOP12, MSG:33/M530)
>>>>> No one is going to be able to upgrade you--legally anyway--except
""""" the copyright owner. See if you can contact them. The last time
someone tried, which was admitedly a while ago, they were still able to get
tech support, and the compiler was still for sale. If you do try, let us
know what you find out.
Mike Westerfield
(BYTEWORKS, CAT4, TOP12, MSG:34/M530)
<<<<< >>>M.HACKETT [Michael]
"""""
> Yes, there was a ProDOS version - I've used it. Unfortunately, it
> doesn't seem to work reliably on a IIgs, although the compiled programs
> it generates _seem_ to work OK. I wasn't able to completely track down
> the incompatibility, but something would crash while making ProDOS calls.
Not work reliably on a GS? :( Can you elaborate? For my purposes, it would
have to. I couldn't see using ved for anything other than cruel and unusual
punishment.
>>>J.GRAY38 [ James ]
> I couldn't figure out why it wasn't already in my
> software library, until noticing the $299 price tag.
Yeah, go figure :)
>>>BYTEWORKS
> No one is going to be able to upgeade you--legally anyway--except the
> copyright owner.
Reality check! Thanks, Mike.
> See if you can contact them. The last time someone tried,
> which was admitedly a while ago, they were still able to get tech
> support, and the compiler was still for sale. If you do try, let us know
> what you find out.
Sure will. This ought to be interesting :)
Michael
(ANIMASIA, CAT4, TOP12, MSG:35/M530)
>>>>> >Not work reliably on a GS? :( Can you elaborate? For my purposes,
""""" >it would have to. I couldn't see using ved for anything other
>than cruel and unusual punishment.
OK, it crashes! That's about all I can say. I believe it was either the
compiler or assembler (the compiler generates assembly source) that was the
main culprit, but I can't remember for sure. As I said, I tried once to
track down the compiler crashing problem, and found that it was dying
inside of ProDOS on a Write call, I believe. I gave up at that point
figuring it was less work to just fire up the old IIe.
Mike
(M.HACKETT, CAT4, TOP12, MSG:36/M530)
>>>>> Sounds suspiciously like the problem I was having that caused me to
""""" never release GenericTerm 3.4... it was dying inside ProDOS during
a Read call... never did find out why... I gave up on that program a few
years ago because of it.
Dave
(JUST.DAVE, CAT4, TOP12, MSG:37/M530)
ADB QUESTIONS three questions: (I know people can answer these, they're
""""""""""""" not too difficult:)
1) How can I determine whether the keyboard at a certain address is
an extended keyboard or not? (I'll be calling this after moving
keyboards to different addresses.. I'm experimenting with some weird
stuff :)
2) How do I set the caps/num/scroll lock lights on an extended keyboard?
3) Do the partially documented commands in TBR1 actually do anything,
or are they still "For future use"? :) (Note: there is nothing
in TBR3, system 6 refs, or tech notes about this.. none of these
are anything I'd want to use (I'm just dealing with keyboards in the
program I'm writing, and other than the two questions above dealing
with extended keyboards, I know how to do everything I want to do:)
But I would like to know if these do anything.. just out of
curiosity :)
(A2PRO.GELAMP, CAT15, TOP9, MSG:49/M530)
[*][*][*]
While on GEnie, do you spend most of your time downloading files?
If so, you may be missing out some excellent information in the Bulletin
Board area. The messages listed above only scratch the surface of
what's available and waiting for you in the bulletin board area.
If you are serious about your Apple II, the GEnieLamp staff strongly
urge you to give the bulletin board area a try. There are literally
thousands of messages posted from people like you from all over the world.
[*][*][*]
[EOA]
[DEV]//////////////////////////////
DEVELOPER'S CORNER /
/////////////////////////////////
News From The A2Pro Online Developers
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
By Tim Buchheim
[A2PRO.GELAMP]
o ONLINE SUPPORT IN A2PRO
o USING ORCA/DEBUGGER IN GNO/ME
o MAKING HEADS OR TAILS OF SHELL UTILITIES
o NEW EDITION OF THE TOOLBOX REFERENCE MANUALS?
>>> ONLINE SUPPORT IN A2PRO <<<
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
CAT TOP COMPANY
=== === =======
29 INDEPENDENT DEVELOPERS ONLINE
2 DYA/DigiSoft Innovations Online
8 Simplexity Software Online
14 Quality Computers Q-LABS Online
20 DreamWorld Software Online
26 METAL/FV Software Online
32 Kitchen Sink Software Online
38 EdIt-16 (Bill Tudor)
30 PROCYON, INC.
31 SOFTDISK PUBLISHING
33 GS+ MAGAZINE
34 JEM SOFTWARE
35 PRODEV, INC.
36 THE BYTE WORKS
Each month this column feature highlights and news from various
developers who provide support via A2Pro.
>>> USING ORCA/DEBUGGER IN GNO/ME <<<
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
DEBUGGER BLUES Does the ORCA Debugger work with GNO/ME? Whenever I set
"""""""""""""" breaks and then compile in order to use the Debugger, GNO
locks up or crashes into the monitor when I launch the compiled exe. I am
using Prizm to set the hard breaks in ORCA-C 2.0.3 source, if that matters.
The program does work with the Debugger when run from the ORCA text shell.
If ORCA Debugger doesn't work with GNO, is there a source level debugger
that does? (I'm having enough trouble with C using a debugger and
would hate to have to go without one! :)
Eric Heim
(E.HEIM3, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:163/M530)
>>>>> Eric,
"""""
> Does the ORCA Debugger work with GNO/ME?
No.
> If ORCA Debugger doesn't work with GNO, is there a source level debugger
> that does?
Yes -- Splat! (shameless plug :-) ) GS+ sells it now.
Mike
(M.HACKETT, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:164/M530)
>>>>> >> Does the ORCA Debugger work with GNO/ME?
"""""
> No.
What's the problem? When are you:
a. Going to fix GNO/ME, or
b. Bother to let me know that there is a bug in ORCA/Debugger?
Mike Westerfield
(BYTEWORKS, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:165/M530)
>>>>> Eric,
"""""
It is possible to use ORCA/Debugger under GNO. The trick is to install
ORCA/Debugger _after_ entering GNO by using IR. However, ORCA/Debugger's I/O
competes with GNO's so its hard to use. Splat! works much better with GNO.
(But Splat! doesn't like the exit() or fork() functions. Isn't it about time
for an update, Mike? :)
(S.REEVES2, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:166/M530)
>>>>> > ORCA/Debugger's I/O competes with GNO's so its hard to use...
""""" >Isn't it about time for an update, Mike?
Yes. ORCA/Debugger does need some changes, but I/O is _not_ one of them. If
I change the I/O, it would severely limit the kinds of programs it could
debug. Currently, ORCA/Debugger can debug _anything_ but an interrupt
handler.
Maybe it's time for an update to GNO, so you can turn off the non-standard
tricks it has to use to make multi-tasking work. Those tricks can get in the
way of some perfectly legal, and otherwise impossible to write, programs like
ORCA/Debugger.
Mike Westerfield
(BYTEWORKS, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:167/M530)
>>>>> This may just be one of those things where neither program can
""""" perform well and accomodate the other--that's certainly the case
from the ORCA/Debugger side. Incidentally, does GS/Bug have the same
problem? I expect it would. If not, it would be interesting to know why.
Maybe I missed a trick.
Mike Westerfield
(BYTEWORKS, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:168/M530)
<<<<< Thanx, Guys. Will try the IR trick first, if it proves too
""""" difficult, will try Splat!
Eric Heim
(E.HEIM3, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:169/M530)
>>>>> > (But Splat! doesn't like the exit() or fork() functions. Isn't it
""""" > about time for an update, Mike? :)
I think that was actually directed at me, Mike. (I guess we all need
nicknames or something -- there are too many Mikes here!)
Yes, Splat! too could use some fixing up (though I wasn't aware of any
problems with exit(); fork() yes), and I have plans to do so, but I need to
get some other things done first, to try and make a bit of money. The
market for Splat! is pretty small, and an update would basically be a
labour of love. :-) But keep bugging
And Mike W., obviously it is possible to write a debugger that works with
GNO (well almost) and all other environments equally well -- I've done it.
It wasn't _easy_, which is why it took over 2 years to write. Yes, some
consideration of GNO's special features had to be made, but I considered
GNO such an important and valuable product that I felt it worth supporting.
If you don't, that's fine, but be prepared to hear complaints from those of
us who love GNO.
Mike (the other one)
(M.HACKETT, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:170/M530)
>>>>> > (I guess we all need nicknames or something -- there are too many
""""" > Mikes here!)
Orca/Mike, Splat/Mike...
A3D/Michael :)
(ANIMASIA, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:171/M530)
>>>>> Mike, I looked at doing shell calls from ORCA/Debugger, and ended
""""" up rejecting it because of potential problems it might cause in
oddball programs if the shell wasn't there--or more likely, if the shell
_was_ there and both the debugger and program wanted to use it. :) It's
differences like this that have always convinced me that debuggers are one
of the few developmen tools that you can't have enough of. Each has its
peculiar uses and foibles. I regularly use 3 on the GS, plus some custom
debug code I frequently insert into programs. I should probably use Splat!,
too. :)
And I know what you mean about the small debugger market. Boy do I know.
Mike Westerfield
(BYTEWORKS, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:172/M530)
>>>>> > And I know what you mean about the small debugger market. Boy do
""""" > I know.
FWIW, I've bought both and haven't regretted either purchase.
Michael
(ANIMASIA, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:173/M530)
>>>>> > Yes, Splat! too could use some fixing up (though I wasn't aware
""""" > of any problems with exit(); fork() yes),
I think I mentioned this in the Splat! topic a while back. Basically,
executing an exit() in Splat! hangs GNO but a return from main() doesn't.
(S.REEVES2, CAT30, TOP2, MSG:173/M530)
>>> MAKING HEADS OR TAILS OF SHELL UTILITIES <<<
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
FLIP A COIN Head works fine but tail does not output the last ten lines.
""""""""""" It only outputs a truncated and garbled copy of the last
line. Is there a newer version ? I can get what I need without using tail
but if tail work properly *it* would be a much better solution for me.
Thanks.
> File Blocks Type Modified Created Length Auxtype
>
> head______________________ 23 EXE 24-Feb-92 24-Feb-92 $2B96 $0100
> tail______________________ 34 EXE 18-Jan-93 16-Jan-93 $4020 $0000
Nez
(L.JIMINEZ, CAT30, TOP3, MSG:161/M530)
>>>>> Nez,
"""""
I used tail from ORCA Shell and it gives the last 10 lines of a text file.
My version has the same date and size as the one you list.
tail -V (gives version number)
Version: Tail v1.1 18-Jan-93
Running the same command from gno, it is garbled. I outputted the result to
a text file and everything looked fine. 'tail file >editme' There are the
lines with $0Ds. Tail is printing all of the lines, but all on the same
screen line, and then gno is putting it's command prompt on the same line.
Here is a work around.
tail numbers >n ; cat n
The last 10 lines are outputted to file n and then the cat n command prints
the file to the screen. I had cat in my init file as a catalog command and
that was overriding the unix cat command.
- James - [IMAGE]
(J.GRAY38, CAT30, TOP3, MSG:162/M530)
<<<<< Hmmm,
"""""
> 'tail file >editme'....
not as nice as a working 'tail filename' would be but still a tremendous
improvement over my alternative. I'll take it and run. Thanks James.
Nez
(L.JIMINEZ, CAT30, TOP3, MSG:163/M530)
>>>>> > Head works fine but tail does not output the last ten lines.
"""""
I have the same version of tail and it works fine for me. What kind of
files are you using?
(S.REEVES2, CAT30, TOP3, MSG:164/M530)
>>> NEW EDITION OF THE TOOLBOX REFERENCE MANUALS? <<<
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
POSSIBLE NEW PRODUCT I've mentioned a few times that we are looking into
"""""""""""""""""""" reprinting the Apple IIgs Toolbox Reference series.
This is moving along at a glacial pace, but it is moving. I'd like to ask
a couple of questions.
On the product side, the major consideration is creating a concise,
accurate, easy-to-use replacement for the original TBR series, which
currently spans 5 books from 2 publishers. The product we envision will
replace:
Apple IIGS Toolbox Ref. Volumes 1-3
Programmer's Ref. for System 6.0 and 6.0.1
The new product would look something like this:
1. 8.5x7" pages
2. Spiral bindings (like the recent ORCA and Quick Click books)
3. 2-4 volumes (we're just not sure)
4. All information from all sources will be integrated, with a single
index. One location will list all information about a tool call! All
tools & calls will be alphabetized! You'll be able to _find_ things!
5. Header and prototype information will be included for:
ORCA/M macros
ORCA/Pascal
ORCA/C
ORCA/Modula-2 These will basically be copies of the tool declarations
from the respecive interface files, except for ORCA/M, which will be
the macro model lines.
6. A companion disk version may be available, either as a separate product
or bundled.
The major thing I'd like to change is the format for the tool calls. In all
of the Mac toolbox documentation, Apple includes just the Pascal headers,
and uses records, not stack diagrams, for data images. What I propose to do
is something similar, except I'd also support languages other than Pascal.
So what does that mean? I'd ditch stack diagrams.
The disadvantage is they look cool. I'll also get a lot of complaints.
The advantages are: I stand a chance of actually finishing the darn thing;
it's easy to supply the information in a computer-based form; and the books
will be shorter, so they will cost you less and take fewer volumes, making
it easier to find a particular tool call.
Don't underestimate that last point. It means you will be using about half
the number of voumes to find a tool call! Instead of thmbing through 6
volumes, you can use just 3 (or therabouts).
The thing I'd like your comments on is the plan as a whole, but especially
on ditching stack diagrams in favor of language-specific header files.
NOTE: None of this is certain. We still have a few hurdles to jump
copyright-wise, but so far those issues have gone well--albeit slowly.
Mike Westerfield
(BYTEWORKS, CAT36, TOP3, MSG:276/M530)
[*][*][*]
[LIB]//////////////////////////////
LIBRARY BIT BONANZA /
/////////////////////////////////
HOT Files You Can Download
""""""""""""""""""""""""""
By Tim Buchheim
[T.BUCHHEIM]
>>> SPECTRUM SCRIPTING A2U COURSE <<<
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
File # 4711 SP.WK10.RTC.BXY (GS)
Uploaded on 4/25/95 by A2U.PROF1
About 10K (d/l time approx. 1 minute @ 2400 baud)
RTC transcript for week 10 of Spectrum Scripting A2U - this one contains
the basic rough-out of the BBS system, and some design specifications that
the BBS team will be following.
File # 4707 SP.A2U.WK9.BXY (GS)
Uploaded on 4/21/95 by A2U.PROF1
About 9K (d/l time approx. 1 minute @ 2400 baud)
Week 9's lesson for Spectrum A2U Scripting course.
File # 4706 SP.WK8.RTC.BXY (GS)
Uploaded on 4/21/95 by A2U.PROF1
About 12K (d/l time approx. 1 minute @ 2400 baud)
Transcript of Spectrum A2U Scripting course RTC for week 8, with guests
Dave Hecker of SevenHills and Bill Tudor if immesurable fame <g>. They
discussed various aspects of using and programming Spectrum XCMDs.
File # 4676 SP.A2U.WK8.BXY (GS)
Uploaded on 4/10/95 by K.LUCKE
About 7K (d/l time approx. 40 seconds @ 2400 baud)
Lesson #8 for Spectrum scripting A2U
File # 4675 SP.RTC.WK7.BXY (GS)
Uploaded on 4/10/95 by K.LUCKE
About 6K (d/l time approx. 35 seconds @ 2400 baud)
Week 7's transcript for Spectrum Scripting A2U
[*][*][*]
[EOA]
[RTC]//////////////////////////
RTC WATCH /
/////////////////////////////
Bits and Pieces from A2Pro Real Time Conferences
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
By Tim Buchheim
[A2PRO.GELAMP]
>>> A2Pro WEEKLY RTC SCHEDULE <<<
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
_______ __________ _________
/_______| /_________/ /________/ SEVEN days a week!!
/__/__/__/ /__/ /__/
/________/ EAL /__/ IME /__/ ONFERENCES in A2Pro!!
/__/ /__| /__/ /__/_____
/__/ /__/ /__/ |________/ WEEKLY SCHEDULE
Stop in and say "Hi!" at one of these conferences. We've been giving
away quite a few GEnie usage credits (free time) at these conferences,
and you may just win the next one! :)
Day Time Event Host
--- --------------- ----------------------------------- -----------
Sun 8:30pm-11:00pm Weekly Programmers' RTC Sloanie
Mon 9:30pm-11:00pm GS/OS and Toolbox Calls Dave Miller
Tue 9:30pm-11:00pm 8-bit Programming Russ Nielson
Wed 9:30pm-11:00pm HangTime's HyperBar & Grill HangTime
Thu 9:30pm-??:?? Informal - Q&A, chat, whatever A2Pro Staff
Fri 9:30pm-11:00pm Getting Started with Programming Tim Buchheim
Sat 8:30pm-10:00pm Assembly Language Programming Brian Wells
NOTE: All times are in Eastern Daylight Time.
[*][*][*]
Join us any night of the week for quick and friendly
programming help! The staff of A2Pro is always available to
answer your questions, or to sit and chat about whatever is
on your mind! In addition to our regular conferences listed
above, join Ken Lucke, the Spectrum 2.0 scripting expert, for
the Apple II University (A2U) Spectrum 2.0 scripting course!
The class is currently writing a complete BBS system in the
Spectrum scripting language! Sign up for the class in the
A2Pro Bulletin Board, or feel free to drop in on Sunday night
and listen in. See you there!!
[*][*][*]
[EOA]
[LOG]//////////////////////////////
LOG OFF /
/////////////////////////////////
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"""""""""""""""""""""
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[*][*][*]
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