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Electric Dreams Volume 09 Issue 02
E.l.e.c.t.r.i.c D.r.e.a.m.s
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E.l.e.c.t.r.i.c D.r.e.a.m.s
Volume #9 Issue #2
February 2002
ISSN# 1089 4284
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http://www.dreamgate.com/electric-dreams
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C O N T E N T S
++ Editor's Notes
++ The Global Dreaming News
Events - Updates - Reviews - More
From Peggy Coats - www.DreamTree.com
++ Column: An Excerpt From the Lucid Dream Exchange
By Lucy Gillis
++ Article: Maslow's Map
A New System of Dream Classification
By Linda Lane Magallón
++ Article: Bin Laden Sees Precognitive Dreams as a Security Risk
By Janice Baylis, Ph.D.
++ Article: The Founding of the alt.dreams Usenet Newsgroup:
Initial Proposals and Configuration
By Richard Wilkerson
D R E A M S S E C T I O N :
This issue includes volume # 361 - 378
D E A D L I N E :
February 20th deadline for MARCH 2002 submissions
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Send Dreams and Comments on Dreams to:
Richard Wilkerson <rcwilk@dreamgate.com>
Send Dreaming News and Calendar Events to:
Peggy Coats <web@dreamtree.com>
Send Articles and Subscription concerns to:
Richard Wilkerson: <rcwilk@dreamgate.com>
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Editor's Notes
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Welcome to the February 2002 issue of Electric Dreams, your portal to dreams and dreaming online.
Our news directory, Peggy Coats, from dreamtree.com, has gathered dreaming news from around the world, events, conferences, and seminars. You will find these below in the Global Dreaming News. If you have news items about dreams and dreaming for Peggy, send them to her at web@dreamtree.com
Lucy Gillis explores Kundalini energy and dreams this month in her column through an account by Katie called "The Un-Birthing." Get a spiritual handle on all the buzzing or roaring noises, vibrating, and other sensations around sleep and dreams in the excerpt from the Lucid Dream Exchange.
Linda Lane Magallón, author of _Mutual Dreaming_ and long time dream researcher of outer reaches of human potential, began last month an investigation of a neglected area of dreams in the work of Humanistic psychologist, Abraham Maslow. This month Magallón continues with _Maslow's Map
A New System of Dream Classification_ with a selection titled "A Map of Healthy Growth."
Janice Baylis, Ph.D., author of _Sex, Symbols and Dreams_ critiques the comments that experts have made about the bin Ladin dream video and shows how precognitive dreams can work to our advantage in everyday life. Be sure to read "Bin Laden Sees Precognitive Dreams as a Security Risk"
For those of you interested in the history of dream sharing online, I have a bit of research I am sharing this month with you. If you are familiar with Usenet Newsgroups, you may have wondered when alt.dreams or alt.dreams.lucid or one of the many other Usenet Newsgroups started. Well, I have found the first suggestions by Jack Campin to start the newsgroup and some of the comments that followed. Read all about this in the The Founding of alt.dreams
Our dream-flow Dreams this month come from all around the Net and have been organized by the software developed by Harry Bosma. Be sure to look through the dreams and see what on the mind and soul of dreamers in Cyberspace.
Thanks to all who sent in information for the Dream Resources pages. There is still time to get your site updated. You can look through our collected website links at: http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/resources/
NEXT MONTH: All about dreams and dreaming online, a guide for the year 2002 and an update on the computer and digital dreams coming in. Hey, didn't I promise that last month? OK, you caught me. We just had too much material to get out to you this month. Perhaps we'll get to that next month. In the meantime, if you are curious about dreaming online, stop by our many resources:
http://www.dreamtree.com
http://www.dreamgate.com/electric-dreams
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/library
-Richard Wilkerson
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G L O B A L D R E A M I N G N E W S
February 2002
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If you have news you'd like to share, contact Peggy Coats, pcoats@dreamtree.com. Visit Global Dreaming News online at http://www.dreamtree.com/News/global.htm.
This Month's Features:
NEWS
- Dream Time with Children
- ASD Lucid Dreaming E-Study Group
- Movie Review - "Waking Life"
- Teledream Group
- Lucid Dreaming and Tibetan Dream Yoga with LaBerge & Friends
- ASD Conference Deadlines - Art Entries, March 31
- ASD Dream Time Live Chat - Jungian Jill Mellick, Ph.D.
WEBSITE & ONLINE UPDATES
- Cyberdreams has New Host
DREAM CALENDAR for February 2002
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N E W S
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>>>> Dream Time with Children, A New Book By Brenda Mallon
'I dreamt that a man with only half a face climbed up my drainpipe and in through my bedroom window. He picked up my sister's tights and strangled my sister and me'
Emma (9)
Our children are living in an increasingly stressful environment. Easy access to movies now ensures that the average 19 year old will have seen 22,000 violent deaths on screen. Media images introduce the youngest children to the problems that beset our planet, and achievement is tested at the earliest level in schools. Children's dreams reveal these anxieties.
Addressing these issues, Dream Time with Children reflects an upsurge of interest in dreams. The author gives a step-by-step account of how to understand and interpret children's dreams, to help them to cope with life's stresses, and gives first hand accounts of children's dreams as told to her in classrooms, in therapy and in workshops. Illustrated with practical exercises it also contains fascinating facts about the cultural and spiritual significance of dreams and even includes an analysis of the dreams of Harry Potter.
Brenda Mallon is available for interview, telephone 0161 448 8780
Brenda Mallon has been prominent in the field of dream research for more than twenty years and is an established therapist working with both adults and children. She is on the Board of Directors of the Association for the Study of Dreams, and is their UK and Ireland International Dreamtime Project representative. She is the author of numerous books on dreams and dreaming and her film 'Children Dreaming', made for BBC TV, brought new insights into the way children understand their dream world.
Dream Time with Children by Brenda Mallon (published in original paperback at £13.95 by Jessica Kingsley Publishers on 15/12/01, 200 pages, ISBN 1 84310 014 22)
For more information or to request a review copy of Dream Time with Children, please contact Sally Ashworth, Jessica Kingsley Publishers, 116 Pentonville Road, London, N1 9JB. Telephone: 020 7833 2307. Fax: 020 7837 2917. email: sashworth@jkp.com.
>>>>> The Association for the Study of Dreams presents:
ASD E-Study Group Focus : Lucid Dreaming
To subscribe, simple send an e-mail to:
asd-lucidity-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
The Lucid Dreaming E-Study group, hosted by Craig Webb, will have a mini online conference in late January to discuss current issues on lucid dreaming and update resources. The discussions will also include reviews of books on lucid dreaming, techniques, groups, and technological aids. As an ASD member there is NO FEE for you to join. Simply subscribe to the address above by sending in an e-mail and the rest is automatic! Send in an e-mail and tell us who you are if you want to participate and let others know you have subscribed, or simply watch quietly as others discuss issues and enjoy the show! There are twelve other ASD E-Study groups and you can join as many as you like. See the full list at
http://www.asdreams.org/study
>>>>> A Movie Review of WAKING LIFE
by Nora Archambeau, M.A.
WAKING LIFE by director Richard Linklater is an ideal movie for any dreamworker. Created with an updated filmmaking technique called interpolation, all of the characters are actors who have been animated. Interpolation, animation software developed by art director Bob Sabiston, is taking a video frame of a face, tracing a nose, let's say, then moving ahead a few frames, and tracing the nose again. At times, the viewer doesn't know if s/he is looking at an animated form or a real person, kind of like the characters that show up in our dreams. The fluidity of the
movie takes us from one situation to the next with a likeness to everyday waking life situations. Then, as the movie progresses, the scenes change in a more abrupt fashion and become more and more like non-waking or dreaming situations.
The movie begins with a boy and a girl playing a paper puzzle game. The game ends with the "answer" the boy receives, which is "dream is destiny".This main animated actor (or dream character, if you like) turns into a young man in college who has a thirst to know and understand answers to life's most sublime and complex questions. He's a somewhat average, laid-back, yet fairly deep thinking dude. So, while the scenes are set in the external world, filmed primarily in the director's native Austin, Texas
with excursions to San Antonio and New York, one feels that s/he is traversing the landscapes of the mind and internal realms of existence.
There is an expansive range of eclectic characters. The movie viewer starts with a college professor speaking about Jean-Paul Sartre's theory of existentalism, proceeds to a discussion with a woman on the importance of language, progresses to perhaps a real physicist-scientist who discusses the evolution of a human to a neo-human, inserts a jailed prisoner's intense hate toward his accusers, and meandors to a bedroom talk between actors Julie Delpy and Ethan Hawke on how we telepathically share our
experiences with everyone all the time. What makes this movie especially attractive for dreamworkers are the insertions of characters who speak specifically on the topic of dreams. Solid research has been applied in this movie to the authenticity of a few dream states we experience. There is much said on lucid dreaming. There is also a well-articulated monologue
on the difference between dream and waking realities, and lastly, how we should merge waking reality with our dreams. The best line from this movie just might be "[we are often] sleep walking through the waking state and wake walking through dreaming".
No movie review is complete unless there includes some critique. There are actually only two critiques, however, to make of the movie. One is the fact that your eyes may go cross-eyed due to the constant change of visuals found in interpolation animation. The second is the sometimes annoying verbage that only serves to create a sense of intellectual superiority. And being someone who bristles when another foretells a movie's ending,this movie reviewer will refrain from giving away the most
exquisite part that occurs with a turn of dream events towards the closing.
WAKING LIFE is thoroughly enjoyable if you are drawn to absorb some highly mental discourses on the dilemma of human existence and, of course, to the reality that dreams, waking and non-waking, interface more than some want to admit with our everyday lives. You are invited to view, ponder, and delight in an incredible endeavor from an indie movie artist.
Nora can be contacted at (510) 893-3137 or at narchambeau@hotmail.com.
>>>>> The Teledream Group
THE TELEDREAM GROUP is a Telephone Dream Group. We meet weekly to interpret dreams in a live, group discussion by telephone. Every Monday evening (8-10 pm EST), dream missionaries--Dr Ron Masa, Billie Ortiz and their 'U of You' dreamstaff--lead a supportive, inspiring journey into depth-oriented, dream wisdom with insights applied to all. You bring the dream, we provide the group. Neo-Jungian, Jeremy Taylor-friendly. For all Electric Dream readers: your first visit to TeleDream is currently half price ($15) More info is available at: www.UniversityofYourself.com/Teledream.html Schedule a first visit at (303) 786-9537 or email: Ron@UniversityofYourself.com
The TELEDAYDREAM GROUP meets each week by telephone (Friday 1-2:30 EST) as an ongoing dream group. Limited size and continuous membership in this group offer continuity for ongoing dreamwork ($125/mo). Schedule a first visit at (303) 786-9537 or email: Ron@UniversityofYourself.com
>>>>>Lucid Dreaming and Tibetan Dream Yoga with LaBerge & Friends
"DREAMING AND AWAKENING IN PARADISE"
A 10-day Residential Training Program in Lucid Dreaming and Tibetan Dream Yoga with Stephen LaBerge and Friends Kalani, Hawaii, February 26 - March 7, 2002
Rejuvenate body and mind. Awaken to your inner life. Stop sleeping through your dreams. Join us in exploring the boundless frontiers of the dream world in a setting of glorious natural beauty. Nurtured by the paradisical, dream-like environment on the sunny secluded Puna Coast of the island of Hawaii, we will cast off our blinders, drop the shackles of our ordinary routines, and take a fresh look at what is real and what is dream.
Becoming adept at lucid dreaming requires focused attention and
practice that is difficult to maintain during our busy lives. This retreat provides an ideal opportunity to devote time to cultivating your lucid dreaming ability and enhancing your mindfulness in everyday life, using the most effective techniques and technology, derived from Tibetan dream yoga and Western science. Although we cannot guarantee that everyone will have (and remember) a lucid dream during the program, in past years, most participants have done so, and all have experienced enhanced awareness of the dreamlike nature of "reality."
Join us in this unique opportunity! The retreat includes: Ten days and nine nights of balanced fun and focus on consciousness, dreaming and awakening at the beautiful, dream-inspiring Kalani Oceanside Retreat Center on the Big Island of Hawaii; Daily group and individual exercises in developing lucid dreaming skills and enhancing consciousness, dreaming and waking; Valuable insight into the application of lucidity and mindfulness to all aspects of life; A sleep schedule (including naps) optimized for the promotion of lucid dreams; Use of lucid dream induction technology; Discussion sessions and personal guidance by Dr. Stephen LaBerge, world-renowned expert on lucid dreaming; and dreams, dreams, and more dreams!
Kalani Oceanside Retreat is located on 113 spacious acres of botanical forest along the sunny and secluded Puna Coast on "the Big Island" of Hawaii. Bordered by tropical forest and rugged lava coastline and near Kilauea, the most active volcano in the world, Kalani is the only coastal lodging facility within Hawaii's largest conservation area. Twenty acres are dedicated to landscaped lawns and retreat facilities. On-site amenities include an Olympic-size swimming pool, two jacuzzis, and a sauna. Among nearby attractions are a black-sand beach, tidepools, thermal springs, natural steam vents, Volcanoes National Park, botanical gardens, and hiking to waterfalls. The sea cliffs of the Kalani coastal area provide for close-up views of turtles, dolphins, and migrating whales.
The retreat will focus on methods of developing the mental skills that foster lucid dreaming and on directing your consciousness in the dream state towards fulfillment of your personal goals. We will reflect on the nature and value of consciousness in waking as well as dreaming, exploring the nature of "reality" and how our perceptions and assumptions influence our experience of life. We will also explore the practical and theoretical differences and common ground between the modern scientific approach to lucid dreaming and the ancient Tibetan approach to dream yoga. The stunning environment of Kalani will be naturally conducive to lifting our minds out of limiting habits of thought and action.
We will have group outings to sites we find particularly inspiring, including an evening seance in a hot-spring under the full moon, a hike through the Kilauea caldera, and a close-up look at the fiery lava entering the sea. The three meals daily are wholesome vegetarian (with fresh fish and chicken options), featuring local Hawaiian fruits and organic produce. Meals are served on the open-air dining lanai. The accommodations are lovely, in natural wood with plenty of light, a clean, modern, yet rustic feel.
Hawaiian weather is delightfully mild throughout the year. The
temperature at Kalani will range from the mid-60's to the mid-80's. Brief rain-showers are common, especially at night, but there is plenty of sunshine as well, mainly in the day, unless you are dreaming. To enhance your nocturnal vision, a full moon is scheduled during the retreat.
Participants in our past retreats have found it a wonderful combination of work and play, with 95% evaluating it as "very" or "extremely satisfying." They also enjoyed phenomenal success at lucid dreaming, with most having at least one during the program. Join us this Spring and be assured that, in addition to having lots of fun and making new friends, you will experience reality in a new light, and the principles of lucid dreaming you will learn will serve you well in discovering what is important for you in your life, day and night.
ABOUT THE PRESENTER
Stephen LaBerge, Ph.D. is a world renowned authority on lucid dreaming. His pioneering studies at Stanford University have brought scientific attention to this potentially illuminating state of consciousness, and his best-selling books Lucid Dreaming and Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, have introduced many to the experience. For the past 20 years, Dr. LaBerge has researched methods for teaching people to become lucid dreamers, developing techniques and lucid dreaming induction devices.
SCHEDULE
Tuesday evening, February 26 - Thursday morning, March 7, 2002
FEES
Standard rate, US$2000, includes room and board. Space is extremely limited; a non-refundable deposit of US$200 will reserve you a place in the program until February 6, when the balance is due.
SCHOLARSHIPS
Contingent upon space availability, we plan to offer several scholarships providing reduced fees, as determined by demonstrated financial need and merit. If you would like to attend this program, but feel the cost is beyond your means, fill out the form at http://www.lucidity.com/DAAK02/scholarship.html We'll do our best to work out a way for you to join us.
Residents of Hawaii, inquire about kama'aina discounts and greatly reduced fees for those attending the sessions only while lodging elsewhere.
FOR INFORMATION OR TO REGISTER
See the website for more details and pictures: http://www.lucidity.com/DAAK02 CALL: +1 650 321-9969 or 1 800 GO LUCID (1 800 465-8243) EMAIL: daak02f@lucidity.com
>>>>> ASD 2002 Dream Art Exhibition - Call for Entries
http://www.asdreams.org/2002/idx_artshow.htm
CALL FOR ENTRIES
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2002 Dream Art Exhibition
Association for the Study of Dreams
Eligibility: Original work in any medium about or inspired by dreams.
Presentation: This year's exhibition will be a web-based show that will premiere on the ASD web site to coincide with the 19th Annual Conference of the Association for the Study of Dreams at Tufts University, Medford, MA, June 15 - 19, 2002.
This will be a web show only; there will be no gallery exhibition at the conference. Slides of selected works may be shown at the conference as part of a talk about the 2002 art exhibition.
Selection: Each artist may submit up to 10 slides (multiple views or details of the same piece are acceptable where appropriate). Artist's name, title, medium and size of work must appear on each slide. All slides must be 35mm in a 2"x2" cardboard or plastic mount, clearly labeled "front" and "top" and submitted in a plastic slide sheet, accompanied by a stamped, self-addressed return envelope. Entries lacking a SASE will not be returned.
Each entry must include a completed and signed entry form. In addition, each entry must include a brief biographical statement, and a brief artist's statement explaining how the work is dream-related. These documents must be printed or typed on 8 1/2 x 11" paper. Any additional comments or personal communications should go in a separate document or cover letter.
Since this is a web show only, the slide is, in effect, the work that will be shown. Artists are advised to submit only slides that hold up well and are visually interesting, apart from the work they picture. Although work in any media may be submitted, two-dimensional works (e.g. painting, drawing, photography, prints) will probably work better than three-dimensional (sculpture, book arts, etc.) in this format. The quality of your slides will be a factor in reviewing submissions; out of focus, poorly composed or difficult to see images will be rejected.
Fee: There is a non-refundable $10 entry fee for non-ASD members. Checks or money orders (in U.S. funds) should be made payable to ASD. Fees are waved for current ASD members. For membership information, check our web site (www.ASDreams.org) or call the ASD Information Office (1-925-258-1822).
Liability & Return of Slides: All slides will be returned after the conference, in July 2002. Artists must enclose return packing and sufficient postage. All slides will be handled by experienced personnel and the utmost care taken to protect them. However, ASD will not be responsible for any loss or damage to slides during shipping.
Deadline: All slides and paperwork must be received by Saturday, March 31, 2002.
Mail entries to: Richard Russo, 2002 ASD Art Exhibition, 835 Peralta Ave., Berkeley, CA 94707. Russo may be reached by email at: RR@well.com
>>>>> ASD Dream Time Live Chat : Jill Mellick, Ph.D.
The Association for the Study of Dreams presents Jungian Jill Mellick, Ph.D. online for a free chat to the whole dream community. Just stop by http://mirror.at/mindrec
on Wednesday, Feb 13, (Pacific Time) for "The Art of Dreaming"
If you have an older computer or a mac, please see the details on how to connect. Send an e-mail to chat@asdreams.org for an automated reply with details.
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19:00:00 Wed Feb 13 2002 in America/Pacific Time converts to
03:00:00 Thu Feb 142002 in GMT
What time is that for me?
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=7&month=11&year=2001&hour=19&min=0&sec=0&p1=224&sort=1
** times are estimate only and may be off by an hour.
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Jill Mellick, Ph.D., will present on THE ART OF DREAMING:
50 SIMPLE MULTIMEDIA, CROSSCULTURAL APPROACHES TO DREAMS & NIGHTMARES FOR INDIVIDUALS, DREAMWORKERS, & DREAM GROUPS
Jill has a unique approach to dreams, an approach which other dream experts such as Marion Woodman, Robert Johnson, Angeles Arrien, Arnie Mindell, and June Singer find unique and remarkable. Jill believes dreams prove us to be natural artists, painters, poets, storytellers, dancers, sculptors and dramatists. Each dream finds the artistic medium in which to best express its wisdom. If we begin to express the dream through that medium in waking life, we come close to re-experiencing our original night journey into the dream culture. We'll talk about how to work with over fifty cross-cultural approaches to dreams and nightmares--approaches that nourish and expand rather than pin down the potential meaning and wisdom of each dream.
BIO
Dr. Jill Mellick is a Jungian oriented psychologist and consultant who has been in private practice in Palo Alto for 18 years. She is also a registered expressive arts therapist.
She is the author of many books including THE ART OF DREAMING, a completely new version of her earlier book, THE NATURAL ARTISTRY OF DREAMS. She is also co-author of COMING HOME TO MYSELF, which she wrote with MARION WOODMAN and THE WORLDS OF POTSUNU, a biography of a Native American woman elder and artist, which she co-wrote with Jeanne Shutes
She is the Founder & Director of the Creative Expression Doctoral Program at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology & a Full Professor.
She has worked with and researched cross-cultural and creative arts approaches to dreams for over 30 years, has spent 25 years working with the Native American peoples of New Mexico and has travelled the world learning about the use of the arts for psychospiritual development
An Australian by birth, she leads workshops internationally. She has been a popular invited workshop leader at the Association for the Study of Dreams, Association for Transpersonal Psychology, the Dreamwork Institute, and Friends of Jung Society.
In addition to being a therapist, dream specialist, teacher & writer, she is an exhibiting painter. (See www.soarts.com. Her paintings from Coming Home to Myself are available at LJMellick@aol.com)
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THE ASSOCIATION FOR THE STUDY OF DREAMS
ASD Information Office
P.O. Box 1166, Orinda, CA 94563
Phone: 925-258-1822
Fax: 925-258-1821
E-mail: ASDreams@aol.com
Website: http://www.ASDreams.org
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W E B S I T E & O N L I N E U P D A T E S
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Do you know of interesting new websites you'd like to share with others? Or do you have updates to existing pages? Help spread the word by using the Electric Dreams DREAM-LINK page
www.dreamgate.com/dream/resources/online97.htm. This is really a public projects board and requires that everyone keep up his or her own link URLs and information. Make a point to send changes to the links page to us.
>>>> Cyberdreams has new Hosts
Cyberdreams was originally sponsored by DreamGate and the Intuition Network. However, the hosts have moved to a private list and Cyberdreams is pretty much an open list now. Just a warning that the hosts are not sponsored by DreamGate or the Intuition Network. URL for Cyberdreams Homepage: http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/cyberdreams
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D R E A M C A L E N D A R
February 2002
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Feb 13, 2002 Online http://mirror.at/mindrec
Jill Mellick, The ART OF DREAMING - ASD Dream Time Live Chat
7pm Pacific Time
Feb 14 & 18 in San Francisco, CA
Strephon Kaplan-Williams will be in California from January 30 to February 20, and will be offering two evening workshops in San Francisco on Thinking fallacies, the subject of his new manuscript. The workshops will be on February 14 and 18 from 7:30-9:30. There will also be a seminar on Saturday, Feb. 16 from 9:30-5:00. Strephon has a masters in Literature and a masters in Counseling psychology. He is an honored founder of the Association for the Study of Dreams with many published books. He has taught professional dreamwork training and Jungian psychology for more than thirty years. For more information on these events contact Sue Renfrew at 415-221-7472 or email her at: leora4@prodigy.net
Feb 20, 2002
Dealine for Electric Dreams. Send all articles and dreams and comments to Richard Wilkerson at rcwilk@dreamgate.com
Send all news and event items to Peggy Coats at web@dreamtree.com
Feb 23 in Indianapolis, IN
A Biblical and Scientific Glance at Dreams, Second Presbyterian Church, 7700 N. Meridian St., Indianapolis, IN, This program will begin with a biblical history of dreams and move into a brief over of two of the basic questions about dreams. What function do they serve? How can they be interpreted? To register or for more information call 253-6461 ext. 365
Feb 22-23, 2002
INTRODUCTION TO LUCID DREAMING, LOS ANGELES,
Stephen LaBerge presents a Friday evening introductory lecture
followed by an all-day Saturday workshop at THE YOGA HOUSE
Feb 26 - Mar 7, 2002
DREAMING AND AWAKENING, KALANI, HAWAII,
There are still a few spaces available
Awareness enhancement and fun at the beautiful Kalani Retreat Center on the Big Island of Hawaii, with Stephen LaBerge and friends. See website for pictures and details: http://www.lucidity.com/DAAK02
Mar 31, 2002
Dead-line for Art Entries - Association for the Study of Dreams 2002 Conference in Boston.
http://www.asdreams.org/2002/idx_artshow.htm
APRIL 6-13, 2002
TUCSON 2002: TOWARD A SCIENCE OF CONSCIOUSNESS,
The Lucidity Institute rates this "The best multidisciplinary conference." Of special interest to lucid dreamers: EXPLORING CONSCIOUSNESS WITH LUCID DREAMING a half-day workshop with Stephen LaBerge on Sunday afternoon, April 7.
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An Excerpt From the Lucid Dream Exchange
By Lucy Gillis
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Buzzing or roaring noises, vibrating, and other sensations often precede out-of-body experiences. But there is another type of dream sensation that seems to be associated with kundalini energy; the energy that is said to reside at the base of the spine and rise up through the top of the head during spiritual awakening.
These energetic rising sensations are sometimes experienced during the dream, or at the onset of waking. The dreams themselves tend to be of a spiritual nature and are accompanied by feelings of oneness and bliss. In the last issue of LDE, Katie describes a dream that ended with kundalini-like sensations:
Katie
November 22 2001
The Un-Birthing
An amazing dream last night. I'm having a normal dream. I've got a new-ish job. I haven't been there very long but already I'm being introduced to a new boss, I've had something like five so far. I've met him before, he's been around for a couple of days at a training, but I can't remember his name. (It's Anthony Chan or something like that.) There's a couple of other odds and ends in the dream, but essentially the feeling of it is very flat; it's a good job, I make a decent amount of money, the people are nice enough, but I don't really enjoy it, it doesn't engage me. So the dream has this depressed, gray feeling to it.
Then I'm looking at my mother through a round opening in a quilt, like I'm cocooned in one. She's lying down and looks exhausted. I say, "You look really tired, what's wrong?" I think her lips move, but if she says anything I can't hear it. I seem to realize I'm dreaming at this point and think, hm, it's weird to dream of looking at my mother through a round aperature; that could be interpreted as a birthing image. Suddenly I realize that's exactly what's going on, and I'm being un-born. I'm being pulled backwards, the aperature closes and I'm drawn backwards (feet first as I lie on my face) through this tight tunnel which is still a quilt, the one on my bed, I think. I'm then drawn back into the womb (still a quilt) and squeezed smaller and smaller (painlessly). At first I'm fighting it, thinking, no, I don't want to disappear! But then it occurs to me that "disappearing" will actually be like dying, a re-connection with the spirit. As I disappear as an "embryo", I suddenly start going down another tunnel (still the quilt), but more slowly this time, head first. I'm very excited now, repeating the mantra "home", meaning enlightenment, at-one-ness, spiritual nirvana. I expect that when I emerge from this tunnel I'll have the experience I sometimes have in dreams of spiritual ecstasy, a feeling of rising and dissolving and pulsing, absolute wellbeing. I have also had tunnel dreams like this before that were very intense and significant. So I'm very anxious to finish my journey. But when the portal finally opens, I find myself simply awake in my bed in the frame dream again. The depressive gray atmosphere of that dream is still there despite the lucidity and rising spiritual anticipation. And that frame dream continues non-lucidly from that point without reference to the tunnel experience.
The other weird thing is that while this was going on, I had a buzzing kind of feeling at the nape of my neck that went up my spine, along the back of my skull and out the top of my head. So I assume it was some kind of kundalini experience. But how weird for it to end that way!
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Maslow's Map
A New System of Dream Classification
(c)1999 Linda Lane Magallón
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Maslow's Map
A New System of Dream Classification
(c)1999 Linda Lane Magallón
(Psychologist Abraham Maslow created a scale of needs to describe the human condition, from basic existence to optimum potential. The scale can be used to take the temperature of your dreams.)
Chapter 2: A Map of Healthy Growth
He loved his dreams and cultivated them.
Colette
The secret to unlocking a dream, I've found, is to seek the core for its fruitful energy. What is it that sticks to your attention? Find that sap, follow the rising flow and you'll come to the heart of the blossom. When you understand the center, the rest of your dream opens out like a flower.
Certain fruits and flowers in the field of dreams hold energy better than most. Some are sweet, some are sour, some are just plain strange. These dreams can especially interest, intrigue, stimulate, frighten or involve you. They are bigger, juicier, smellier, more colorful, more titanic, more dramatic. They vibrate to be appreciated and understood. They throb at the heart of our search for meaning.
Dream trees grow tall and strong or short and weak. Many are so entwined by the activities of the day that they are barely noticeable. The most robust fruit of the dream tree provide glimpses of a heritage hidden to us, a fuller harvest of dreams that may elude us as we eke out a living at the survival level, as we struggle with the energy of fear and anxiety. The denial, frustration or twisting of our essential nature results in many varieties of psychopathology.
Yes, dreamworkers know all about the crop of conflicted dreams. They are very aware of energy that erupts in leaves, twigs and gnarled branches. They find such dreams perfect fodder for psychotherapy.
Some Views Of The Dream
At the beginning of the current era of dreamwork, Sigmund Freud brought about a revolution in psychology. By grasping the role of the unconscious mind in our mental health, he focused attention on our inner worlds. Dreams became a "royal road" or doorway to the unconscious. To understand dreams was to gain clues about the human psyche.
Because some of the roots of ill health have been found in the unconscious through the medium of dream interpretation, it has been a Western tendency to think of the unconscious as bad, evil, crazy, dirty, dangerous or even distorting the truth. We have Freud to thank for that trend. His picture of the psyche was a sort of house with a subconscious cellar of rats and decaying refuse-a "day residue" dumping ground that is displayed in dreams.
On the other hand, there is an even longer tradition of the dream as the source of religious insight, healing, and omens. From that source we get the idea of the unconscious as good, spiritual, wise, pristine and truthful. In this view, the emphasis is on the upstairs or attic of the house, the superconscious mind. For some, like Carl Jung, the dream attic had a mystical nature. Frederic W. H. Myers also supported such a notion, but his primary interest was in psychical research. Traditional theorists ignore him while repressing the psychic aspects of dreams.
At the mid-point dreams can be seen as boring and mundane or confusing and nonsensical. Realistic laboratory researchers live on the conscious level of the house's main living area.
Depending on which level of the dream house we see, we will avoid, pursue or ignore our dreams, and for different reasons. But how do we choose our view of dreams? I'd say that usually, our motivation comes directly from first hand dream experience. We look first to the fruits and flowers of our own dreams. If we always have confusing dreams, we might select "the dream is something I ate" or "we dream in order to forget" theory. If our dreams are full of conflicted emotions, we'll favor the psychoanalytic viewpoint to resolve our problems. The idea that dreams are expressive, creative and metaphysical also emerges from dreams and dreamwork that evince those qualities. Extraordinary dreams tend to grow on the outskirts of the established dream house.
There have been many studies about the norm, the product of the typical dream tree. I'm not at all convinced that the norm is a healthy dream or a dream indicative of a healthy dreamer. After 15 years of research, I just don't see a lot of sweet, juicy dream fruit among normative dream samples. There have been even more studies that link dreams and ill health. With all the research on dreams and psychopathology, you'd think there'd be equal effort to produce a base line of health, a control group of healthy dreamers, for comparison. Yet, the dream literature is strangely silent on this matter. What would the dream life of a healthy psyche look like?
Maslow's Needs Scale
Abraham Maslow put himself into a rare position to speculate on the answer. This American psychologist spent 20 years studying the human optimum. Maslow was reacting to Freud's basement approach to dreams. "We must find out what psychology might be if it could free itself from the stultifying effects of limited, pessimistic and stingy preoccupations with human nature," he said.(1)
Maslow believed that human beings have a natural drive to healthiness, or "self-actualization." A self-actualizing person is one who can bring all his energy together in an integrated, joyful and efficient way, moving toward what he may potentially become. He becomes more truly human, and more truly himself at the same time.
Self-actualization involves a flow of creative energy. It brings about self-satisfaction, but also mental (and probably physical) health. The self-actualized people who Maslow studied had the full use of talents, capacities, potentialities. They might have been at the top of their profession, avocation or calling. Or they may simply have lived a full, rich life. At times they had peak experiences, when they felt at their very best.
Maslow developed a theory of needs and a schema that describes the human condition, whether it be optimal or not. Then he wrote about the practical applications in education, business and the general course of life. According to Maslow's theory, our lives respond to needs at different levels of maturity. These levels range from basic needs to growth needs and towards self-actualization. Maslow believed that people were motivated to satisfy all their needs, but some folks are further along the path than others.
Maslow's Scale Of Needs
Self-Actualization
(Including the "Peak Experience")
Growth Needs
(Such as Goodness, Truth, Beauty, Playfulness)
Basic Needs
Self Esteem
Love and Belongingness
Safety and Security
Physiological
Maslow's scale is read from the ground up. Basic needs include the physiological needs (air, water, food, shelter, sleep and sex), safety and security, love and belongingness, and respect and self-esteem. When these basic needs are not gratified, the result can be illnesses and deficiency diseases (neuroses and psychoses). But stunting, crippling and other sorts of inhibitions and threats to life and health can come from depletion factors like poverty, exploitation, mal-education, enslavement, drug addiction, authoritarianism and criminality.
Even if basic needs are satisfied, we can still suffer deprivation, but it is of another sort, a diminution of human virtues and ideals. Maslow thought that growing and self-fulfilling humans are those whose inner natures are freely expressed, rather than being warped, repressed or denied. Their growth needs include truth, justice, richness, goodness, beauty, order, unity, completion, uniqueness, effortlessness, playfulness, sagacity, emotional spontaneity and creativity. When they are present, life is worthwhile. When they are not, we may suffer loss of meaning, doubts about the goals in life, grief and anger over a lost love, loss of courage or hope, recognition that one's life is being wasted or that there is no possibility of joy, alienation, boredom, apathy, ineffectuality, futility and despair. These are losses of human potential, what might have been and could perhaps yet be.
Maslow believed that needs were part of a motivational hierarchy and, as a general rule, the gratification of basic needs preceded that of the growth needs. However, he did find certain individuals in whom a special talent or unique sensitivity would make growth needs more important and more pressing than some basic needs. The need for truth or beauty, for example, could outpace the need for love or shelter.
At the lowest level of the scale, gratification of basic needs can be described by needing, striving, desperately craving or being driven. Further up the scale, satisfaction of needs involves desiring, wishing, preferring, choosing, wanting. At the highest levels, the more accurate words are loving, admiring, adoring, aspiring, to, being devoted to, fascinated by or yearning for. Or simply, felt appropriateness and being.
People live at various levels in the motivational scale. They can live a high life of individual fulfillment or a low life, barely at the survival level. Maslow believed that what a person is craving, wanting or wishing for tends to be just ahead of him in the scale.
Grumbling Dreams
Then Maslow noticed that there was a relationship between a person's needs level and the kinds of dreams he had. "Unconscious needs commonly express themselves in dreams..." he said.(2) Maslow came to believe that a person's position on the scale could be judged from dreams and dream analysis. "...insecure people tend strongly to have manifestly insecure dreams," he noted. "These seem to be obvious expression of attitude towards the world."(3)
Although he had been trained as a behaviorist, Maslow appreciated some of Sigmund Freud's psychoanalytical ideas and techniques. "Free associations, dream interpretation, interpretation of the meaning behind everyday behavior, are the major paths by which therapists help the patient to gain conscious insight into himself."(4) he said. However, he also disagreed with some of Freud's ideas: whereas he agreed that dreams could express a need or wish, he didn't see the dream necessarily as a wish fulfillment.
Instead, Maslow conceived of the "Grumble Theory." He believed that the level of complaints-that is, the level of what one needs and craves and wishes for, expressed aloud-can indicate the motivational level at which the person is living.
Dreams do grumble. Dreams brought for psychotherapy are concerned with unfinished emotional business or areas of unresolved conflict. The "level of complaints," the expression of ungratified needs, is determined by the theme of conflict found in the dreams. The triggering element for the conflict is what Freud called "day residue."
Most dream theory addresses the basic needs level of cause and complaint. Freud's emphasis on sexuality and instinctual reactions places him towards the bottom of Maslow's scale. Field psychologists like Eugene Gendlin and lab physiologists like J. Allan Hobson theorize that dreams are stimulated by the condition of our body and brain (psychology). Fritz Perl's Gestalt theory works particularly well on conflict resolution between "top dog" (the conscience, at the self-esteem level) and "underdog" (the anxious and threatened, at the safety and security level). Alfred Alder and Montague Ullman agreed with Maslow that dreams have a social aspect (belongingness and love).
"Conflict itself is, of course, a sign of relative health as you would know if you ever met really apathetic people, really hopeless people, people who have given up hoping, striving and coping," said Maslow. "Neurosis is by contrast a very hopeful kind of thing."(5)
A Perspective For Healthy Dreams
Now, here's a conundrum. How can you come up with a healthy theory of dreams if you don't include the healthy dreamers? And, further, how can you select an adequate bevy of dreamwork techniques to unlock the secret of dreams if you don't know the optimum behavior of the dreaming psyche?
My hypothesis is this: an optimum theory of dreams doesn't stand a chance unless it's silhouetted against a wide understanding of many kinds of dreams. A complete theory of dreams supports a complete bevy of dreamwork techniques. One that sweeps the entire panorama of possibilities and then selects the best match from among them to fit the particular dream. Unfortunately, we are a long ways from any one person, group or theory that promotes the Wide Band View.
I am a unique dreamer. I'm not built like you. I don't have the same life experiences that you do. I don't dream like you do. So, there's no guarantee that the approach that best unlocks the secrets of my varied dreams will work as well for you. But some dreamworkers would have you believe that there is a "one size fits all" technique or theory.
Show loyalty for one approach, and some seem to think that you engender disloyalty to the next. It's an either-or, divide and conquer. You're a Jungian or a Caycean or a Hobsonian. But not all three together. The loyalties to a certain approach are set before the rest of the options have a chance to present themselves.
I'm not going to close down the options to make it easy for you. If you want a kindergarten approach to dreams, go read a dream dictionary. If you really want to launch yourself on a voyage of self-discovery, prepare to stretch yourself. Think Wide Band, before your think narrow.
I believe that the goal of dreamwork isn't just to fix the flaw to diagnose the fear or pinpoint the meaning of any particular dream. It's not to pluck fruits and flowers from our dream trees and puzzle over each separate one. Rather, it's to lift our psyche to an optimum level of health. It's to nurture the whole dream tree. Then the fruits of our labors become evident. The bits and pieces of the puzzle link and combine. No single leaf, flower or branch can be studied in isolation to find the how the entire dream tree functions. The meaning of our dreams is in the whole picture, not just in the parts.
Dreams Reflect Feelings And Emotions
Abraham Maslow observed that healthy people can dip into the unconscious, use and value it, instead of fearing it. In other words, they are creative. It has been determined that the unconscious can be the source of creativeness, art, love, humor and play. To treat the dream as a source and aid to those sorts of activities certainly requires that we consider dreams to be more than pathological thinking.
Maslow stated that "....psychologically healthy people are more able to enjoy, to love, to laugh, to have fun, to be humorous, to be silly, to be whimsical and fantastic, to be pleasantly "crazy," and...to permit and value and enjoy emotional experiences in general and peak experience in particular and to have them more often."(6) Dreams are certainly packed with emotional experiences. Dreams range from the peak experience to the titanic nightmare. Healthy people enjoy their dreams because the dreams they have present something to enjoy. Not all the time, but at least some of the time. When was the last time you had a whimsical dream?
That dreams are connected with the range of our feelings and emotions is not a new idea, but it's one that has been gaining ground since Sigmund Freud's ideas and methods set the tone for the current age of dreamwork. Corrier and Hart and Ernest Hartmann support the idea. Carl Jung, Medard Boss and Fritz Perls are a few of the theorists who strongly endorse using our dreams to gain self-awareness and emotional maturity.
Here, in the later days of the Age of Pisces, we Piscean fish still swim in the shadows, below the Tree of Life that grows on the riverbank. The fruit of the average dream tree is not in robust health. While dreamers have been seeking the meaning of dreams in the lower branches of the dream tree, the higher treasures go unrecognized and unclaimed. Nightmares and anxiety dreams fall to the ground and roll into the pool of unconsciousness. Mundane dreams droop beneath branches of lowered expectations. The midnight garden survives, but barely.
Missing is emotional maturity, insight, creative feelings and clear-eyed intuition. Lacking is development of latent potentials, the fruit and flowers of growth level dreaming. Is there an extraordinary dream in the treetops?
I favor Maslow's scale, not as an end, but as a place to begin to look at the whole picture of our dreaming lives. In addition to feelings and emotions, Maslow believed that dreams reflect bodily needs, psychopathologies and social maledictions. The scale incorporates those dream elements that other traditional dream theorists also acknowledge. But I've found that it's also open to some that they tend to ignore, like Karmic aspects and psychic influence.
Every day, it seems, a host of factors impact our psyches: physiological, psychological, parapsychological and cultural. Every night, we handle them well. Or poorly. Our dreams tell us so.
We can use Maslow's scale to take the temperature of last night's dream. Then, as we gather more dreams over time, we have a means to track the course of movement up and down and around the scale. The scale becomes a thermometer of our night life. It's a map of movement and rest, expansion and depletion, of the peaks and valleys in our voyage of self-discovery.
Each individual dream is a signpost on the royal road to personal fulfillment. Are we deep in the vale of despair or up on the mount of elation? Are we stuck in a muddy rut, stumbling along a dusty desert track or streaming down a highway?
We can see where and how dreams reflect the transformation of self. Said Maslow, "In the intrapsychic realm, the first great task is to search for one's identity. Each person must find his or her true, active self..."(7) When we value our dreams, we value our self.
Dream Exercise
Close your eyes and picture your last dream. Where are you? What are you doing? How are you feeling? Now compare your images, activities and feelings with Maslow's scale. What's the temperature of your dream?
Self-Actualization
Growth Needs
Self Esteem
Love and Belongingness
Safety and Security
Physiological
Footnotes to Chapter 2: A Map of Healthy Growth
(1) Maslow, A. H. Motivation and Personality. (New York: Harper & Row, 1970), p. 354.
(2) Ibid., p. 141.
(3) Ibid., p. 239.
(4) Ibid., p. 259.
(5) Maslow, A. H. The Farther Reaches of Human Nature. (New York: Penguin, 1971). p. 33.
(6) Maslow, A. H. Towards a Psychology of Being. (New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold, 1968), p. 209.
(7) Maslow, A. H. (E. Hoffman, ed.) Future Visions: The Unpublished Papers of Abraham Maslow. (Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications, 1996), p. 176.
Dream Flights Site:
http://members.aol.com/caseyflyer/flying/dreams.html
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Bin Laden Sees Precognitive Dreams as a Security Risk
By Janice Baylis, Ph.D. (c) 2001
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In May 1995 our clan is gathered to celebrate brother Dean's 75th and sister Audrey's 70th birthdays. The oldest generation begins to reminisce singing cowboy and railroad songs. Son, sibling, uncle, nephew, Bob, video enthusiast brings out his camera and records the conversations.
Just about every family has one video camera "nut". This is what makes the Bin Laden tape released on Dec. 14th seem very authentic to me.
Precognitive dreams became the topic of the Arab group's conversation. With their Eastern mind attitude they seem to accept precognitive dreams as natural. Which I believe there are. The first dream mentioned in the video was one reported to Bin Laden a year before the twin tower attack.
Bin Laden said that an al Queda member, Abu-Al-Hasan Al-(Masri) "Told me a year ago, 'I saw in a dream, we were playing a soccer game against the Americans. When our team showed up on the field, they were pilots!' He said, 'So I wondered if that was a soccer game or a pilot game? Our players were pilots' He said that the game went on and we defeated them. That was a good omen for us.
"He (Abu-Al-Hasan) didn't know anything about the operation until he heard it on the radio. He did not know about the operation. Not everyone knew." [Abu-Al-Hasan may have "picked up" the pilot aspect via telepathy, since he was a main member of Bin Laden's group.]
The visiting Skaykh replied, "Another person told me that last year he saw, but I told him 'I don't understand.' He said, 'I saw people who left for jihad...and they found themselves in New York...in Washington and New York.' I said, 'What is this?' He told me a plane hit the building. That was last year...when the incident happened he came to me and said, 'Did you see...this is strange.'"
Bin Laden, "The brothers who conducted the operation, all they knew was that they had a martyrdom operation and we asked them to go to America...we did not reveal the operation to them until just before they boarded the planes."
Someone in the group asks Bin Laden to tell the Shaykh about the dream of Abu-Da'ud.
Bin Laden, "We were at a camp of one of the brother's guards in Kandahar. This brother belonged to the majority of the group. He came close and told me that he saw, in a dream, a tall building in America and in the same dream he saw Mukhar teaching them how to play karate. At that point, I was worried that maybe the secret would be revealed if everyone starts seeing it in their dreams. So, I closed the subject. I told him if he sees another dream not to tell anybody, because people will be upset with him."
This caution and shutting down the group's pre operation discussion of their dreams is most interesting. It reveals Bin Laden's appreciation of the power of dream-mind to dream precognitivly. He was wise to consider these dreams a security risk.
This brings up the Los Angeles Times, Dec. 14th article title, "Bin Laden Uses Dreams and Visions as All-Powerful Tools". The authors, Tim Rutten and William Lobdell interviewed a number of "Islamic specialists" and "scholars" about the tape. Richard Hrair Dekmejian, a USC professor of Islamic fundamentalism said, "much of the dream talk by Bin Laden's associates seemed fictional."
"According to Sulayman Nyang, professor of Islamic and African Studies at Howard University, 'For (Bin Laden) the dream is a tool to control and seduce....In his hands the dream becomes a ruse intended to elevate him spiritually in the eyes of those outside his conspiracy...By inventing a dream predicting the very act he is conspiring to commit, he has not only constructed a self-fulfilling prophecy but one that is calculated to make him appear as the favorite of God." Did that professor see the same tape I did?
We don't know how dream-mind accomplishes precognition, but if you monitor your dreams carefully I feel sure you'll find it. You must remember though that dream pictures/images may not be literal. Take the soccer game image. That attack was not a soccer game! But, team games, such as soccer, are similar to war battles in that both are entered into to win or lose.
Here is my all time favorite personal precognitive dream of many I've had. It is my favorite because of the great amount of detail portrayed in similarity images depicting events I had no way of knowing at the time of the dream. Luckily I recognized enough to tell two fellow teachers about it seven months before the waking life events began.
At the time of the dream, March 1974, I was working as a reading specialist teacher in a "disadvantaged" elementary school. Being "disadvantaged", our school was selected by the district and the federal government to receive many thousands of dollars in Federal Aid to Education Funds. A committee of teachers made plans for allocating the monies. One of the programs planned was a half-day teacher for the Mentally Gifted Minors (MGM) students.
As soon as I heard about the plan I went to the principal and told him that if possible I wanted the assignment. He said that I was the first to ask, I was well qualified and if it came into being I could have the position. This was in March planning for the next school year in September. That night I had this dream:
I am teaching a small group of students, about 15. My oldest son, Brad is one of the students. Another student is a black girl currently one of my reading students from Mrs. E's homeroom.
We are working on Weekly Readers a newspaper by Scholastic Press. I had the children put them in clear plastic folders we called "magic slates". This way they could mark the answers and later rub the marks off so another student could use the same set of papers. The little black girl had taken hers out of the slate and made a mark directly on the paper. I went over to her and had her erase the mark and put the newspaper back in the slate.
Then I was preparing to take the class on a field trip. There was one of the very large green school trash barrels in the classroom. It was lined with a fishnet. The boys and girls put their lunch bags into the fishnet to take on the field trip.
When I wrote the dream in my journal I got this much of the meaning. The son in dream had been given a special IQ test. Parts of his score were very high, in the mentally gifted range. He also had some neurological damage which caused some learning disabilities. So, he represented a disadvantaged gifted student. The black girl from Mrs. E's room, I took as a minority. These were mentally gifted minors (MGM) students. The news was that this class was slated for me. I was elated. I told the dream to Jackie Barker and Cara Lou Landes.
June came and school closed with no final decision. The principal would call me in August when it was decided. In August he phoned; the program was approved. However, the black woman who had been a student teacher in Mrs. E's room last spring also wanted the job. Her husband had been in an industrial accident and she wanted half-day work. He left it up to me and I said she could have it. Still, I wondered about that dream.
When school started in September, the Reading Department (that was me) and the English as a Second Language Department were having a big difference of opinion about which reading series to use for teaching beginning reading. I was very instrumental in settling the issue in favor of the series preferred by the Reading Department. I took that as the reason I didn't get the MGM position.
Meanwhile the black woman formerly Mrs. E's student teacher was now a beginning teacher in the district. She turned up pregnant and due to a technicality the district terminated her since she was not tenured. By November I got the MGM class after all. Her mark on it was erased. It was indeed slated for me.
Now I was faced with planning a program to challenge these special kids. The librarian had used some of the federal money to purchase a video camera, pretty advanced in 1974. We decided on a news report project doing interviews with the video camera. The students would video key personnel - principal, custodians, nurse, teachers, students and parents. We would record their thoughts and reactions to the Big Event of the school's history.
This Big Event had taken place the previous year shortly after we moved into our new building, a modern underground school with the playground at street level on top of the underground classrooms. The Big Event had been a serious flood on Dec. 6th. Three fourths of the students had been sent back to our old campus for several weeks. Those who stayed in the new underground building were frequently sick from the nauseating smell of wet carpet padding. I connected this news reporting project to the Weekly Readers in the dream.
There was one problem with the idea - I didn't know how to operate the video camera. I asked the librarian for help. It was brand new equipment and none of the teachers had had time to learn how to use it. She suggested I check with Charlie, the night custodian. It seemed he'd been investigating that video camera on his midnight lunch breaks. He volunteered to stay after his shift in the morning and actively work with the class on the project.
Charlie was pictured in the dream by what I call people reversal. Instead of a dream character referring to something associated with them, such as name, job, character trait. etc.; a person is represented by something associated with them. Trash barrel - custodian - Charlie.
This was a fourth and fifth grade project. The first, second and third grade group voted to study whales. In February they took their field trip, a whale watching boat out of Newport Beach harbor. We saw nine whales migrating from Alaska to Mexico to have their babies. Seems there was something fishy
about how the dream-mind had netted so much precognitive detail. All of these facts are a matter of record.
I kept that half-day teaching job for two years and had time to write my first dream book, Sleep On It! The Practical Side of Dreaming.
If you haven't before, now is a good time to monitor your dreams for precognition. Keep a dream journal, and title your dreams. Reread sections of your journal occasionally and annually. Make notes of precognitions when you recognize them. Look for dream images with some type of similarity to their waking life referent, i.e. items, events or people. For much more information on the way dream-mind chooses the images it uses, that is association on the basis of similarity, see Sex, Symbols and Dreams by Janice Baylis.
The main limbs of this associative thinking system are: life experiences, qualities, words, figures-of-speech, people, family and psychological. Sex, Symbols and Dreams is available at
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0917738-55.
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The Founding of the alt.dreams Usenet Newsgroup: Initial Proposals and Configuration
By Richard Wilkerson
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Included below are the initial posts by Jack Campin on May 9th, 1990 suggesting the initialization of a new Usenet Newsgroups to study dreams and replies. This suggestion would eventually become the well-known alt.dreams, which has also spawned a half dozen other dream related newsgroups.
I also located a post by Kyle Jones, which appears to be person who went ahead and initialized the dream group from a technical standpoint.
If you are not familiar with Usenet newsgroups, I have also included a brief description and history. The Electric Dreams community was started by individuals who found one another on Usenet in 1994, and so continues as part of the heritage of that newsgroup.
Unlike e-mail, which is usually one-to-one, or Mail Lists which are one-to-many, Usenet is many-to-many. This is *not* live or real time chat, but posts and response to posts (creating "threads") left over hours, days and weeks. Before the WWW they were the bulletin boards of Cyberspace. They aren't called bulletin boards because that was the name used for call up by modem/phone boards on single computers "bulletin boards" which were popular for years before the general public could access the Net (usually abbreviated BBs). Though connected and integrated with the Net, Usenet is not technically part of Internet. There are thousands of bulletin boards, each with different topics of discussion. In the beginning, each newsgroup tried to maintain a FAQ file, or a Frequently Asked Questions file, which I suggest you read before posting questions. The FAQ, when available, gives you an idea of the most asked questions and the flow of the newsgroup.
The service is usually delivered through whomever you use to connect to the Internet, such as AOL or your local dial-up, DSL or Cable modem company. They may not always carry all of the newsgroups as some are notorious and questionable. To connect, ask your ISP for the newsgroups address and connection information, and use this information in a Newsgroup Reader program, such as Free Agent. Also, most web browsers now also have a News capability. After you add your connection information, you will need to download the full list of newsgroups your ISP is making available. Then you can "subscribe" to the ones that you want to read or to post messages.
Usenet History
In 1979, two graduate students at Duke University in North Carolina, Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis, came up with the idea of using a Unix system developed to exchange information over phone line. Along with Steve Bellovin, a graduate student at the University of North Carolina and Steve Daniel, they wrote conferencing software and linked together computers at Duke and UNC (Fraase, 1994, The Guide to the Information Highway).
The original program was meant to handle only a few articles each day, but by 1981, a graduate student at Berkeley, Mark Horton and a nearby high school student, Matt Glickman, had released a new version that added more features and was able to handle larger volumes of postings.
Today, Usenet connects tens of thousands of sites around the world with more than 3,000 Newsgroups and tens of thousands of readers.
Dreams and Newsgroups
The messages, if unattended, will only stay up a few days or weeks. The level of discussion fluctuates quite a bit. Most dream concerned individuals I've talked with on the Net find the newsgroup discussions flat and disappointing and have left them to go on and start other forms of Net interaction.
The Newsgroups are very useful for dream sharing in two ways. The first is the traditional use as a bulletin board. Dreamers can post requests for a dream group to start and those interested can contact the person who will be moderating the group. Also, moderated groups can take place directly on these boards, especially when the participants are careful to join with a pen name so the group is anonymous.
Now that there are privately owned bulletin boards available on many sites on the World Wide Web, the Newsgroups are not the only way post dreams. However, the Usenet continues to be a major spot to visit for college students and people with special interests.
The Usenet Newsgroups that focus on dreams are
alt.dream
alt.dreams.lucid
alt.dream.castaneda
alt.dreams.lucid.entities
alt.dreams.mythic
alt.dreams.prophetic
alt.dreams.recurring
alt.dreams.sexual
alt.dreams.edgar-cayce
alt.dreams.tolec
alt.dreams.impero.nascosto
alt.newage.dreamwork
But don't stop here! There are many related boards that can facilitate creative dreamwork, such as alt.mythology, alt.psychology.jung, alt.paranormal and more.
In 1991, while doing graduate research on Internet Dream Sharing, John Campbell located Jack Campin and asked him why he started alt.dreams. Here is Jack's Reply:
=============================================================
From: Jack Campin <uunet!cs.glasgow.ac.uk!jack>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 91 12:00:11 GMT
To: cdp!jherbert
Subject: Re: Need info about alt.dreams
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie, No Mean City
I suggested it. The idea came from surrealism: to provide a window onto what we all really feel about the present age by revealing thought processes that can't be censored as easily as conscious ones. It hasn't done that as well as I hoped (too much paranormal crap) but I'm reasonably happy with the result.
I don't know who actually posted the newgroup message; I'd like to know if you find out.
best wishes - jack
Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland
041 339 8855 x6854 work
041 556 1878 home
JANET: jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk
BANG!net: via mcsun and ukc
FAX: 041 330 4913
INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
BITNET: via UKACRL
UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
=========================================================================
But what was Jack's initial proposal? I did a little research on the new Google Usenet research engine (they acquired all the archives from Deja news.com ) and found the initial post and replies:
1 Jack Campin 09 May 1990
|-2 John S. Price 09 May 1990
| \-3 Michael Richardson 15 May 1990
| \-4 Cornell Kinderknecht 17 May 1990
|-5 Peter M. Ullman 10 May 1990
|-6 Mary Hartman Ichael 11 May 1990
|-7 a.e.mossberg 11 May 1990
| |-8 Christopher Pettus 11 May 1990
| \-9 Jack Campin 12 May 1990
| \-10 Chris Allen 14 May 1990
\-11 Guven Guzeldere 11 May 1990
\-12 John M. Blasik 18 May 1990
13 crsp_bonnie@gsbacd.uchicago.edu 14 May 1990
========================================================================
From: Jack Campin (jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk)
Subject: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config, alt.activism, sci.psychology, alt.sex, rec.arts.misc, news.groups, soc.culture.misc
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-09 16:25:21 PST
Anyone else interested in a group for people to post dreams to? By which I mean what goes on in your head at night, and not the "I have a dream..." variety or literary imitations. No analysis, either; maybe an alt.dreams.d group would be the place for that.
(Being a suggestion from me, there is of course a political hidden agenda. My interest in this is the surrealist one; that they say something about the repressed fears and desires of our time that you can't find out from opinion polls and other pseudo-rational approaches. Even wet dreams can say something about the capitalist world system. But don't feel you'd have to agree with me to post to it.)
I doubt if I could create an alt group from the UK even if I knew how, so someone else will have to pick this one up. Alt seems the only option, though; the thought of spending months arguing about the appropriate place for it in [sci|rec|soc|talk] doesn't appeal very much.
[ followups have been directed to alt.config ]
--
-- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland 041 339 8855 x6044 work 041 556 1878 home JANET: jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk BANG!net: via mcvax and ukc FAX: 041 330 4913 INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Message 2 in thread
From: John S. Price (john@stat.tamu.edu)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-09 23:44:27 PST
In article <5157@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes: >Anyone else interested in a group for people to post dreams to? By which I >mean what goes on in your head at night, and not the "I have a dream..." >variety or literary imitations. No analysis, either; maybe an alt.dreams.d >group would be the place for that.
>
>--
>-- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank
I also would like to see this group created. I could care less where, and the alt group seems to be the easiest place to get one created.
The group could be a place where people could post their dreams. It would also probably digress into a discussion of the dreams, too, but that wouldn't be too bad. Dreams and their meanings has been an interest to me.
I support the creation of alt.dreams.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Price | It infuriates me to be wrong
john@stat.tamu.edu | when I know I'm right....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message 3 in thread
From: Michael Richardson (michael@fts1.uucp)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-15 11:58:26 PST
In article <5283@helios.TAMU.EDU> john@stat.tamu.edu (John S. Price) writes:
>In article <5157@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>>variety or literary imitations. No analysis, either; maybe an alt.dreams.d
>would also probably digress into a discussion of the dreams, too,
Has the group and group.d thing ever actually been tried? (Do any mailers support automatically setting the Followup-To: line to another group based on active file contents or something? I suppose hacking inews (the shell script) to treat posting to group with a References: line as posting to group.d)
I too, would like to see alt.dreams and alt.dreams.d
--
:!mcr!: | Tellement de lettres, si peu de temps. Michael Richardson | If Meech passes, no one will understand that. Play: mcr@julie.UUCP Work: michael@fts1.UUCP Fido: 1:163/109.10 1:163/138 Amiga----^ - Pay attention only to _MY_ opinions. - ^--Amiga--^
Message 4 in thread
From: Cornell Kinderknecht (cornell1@matt.ksu.ksu.edu)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-17 11:10:08 PST
I'd like to see alt.dreams also.
Message 5 in thread
From: Peter M. Ullman (pmullman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-10 00:45:56 PST
In article <5157@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
I like the idea of alt.dreams. I've had some good ones that I've even written up as short stories, and I think I'd enjoy doing this very much.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Peter M. Ullman INTERNET: pmullman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU |
| Princeton University UUCP: ...!rutgers!princeton!phoenix!pmullman |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message 6 in thread
From: Mary Hartman Ichael (michael@csseq.tamu.edu)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-11 05:17:00 PST
Just to get another opinion in, I am also
highly interested in an alt.dreams... perhaps
the best idea I've heard since alt.pee.wee.herman ... :-)
;-)
Hope this vote counts twice...
/* - michael
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mary Hartman Ichael, michael@csseq.tamu.edu
Always, remember love. Lucifer Donovan, michael@stat.tamu.edu
(c) Michael D. Denison, mdd4783@tamvenus.BITNET
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
*/
Message 7 in thread
From: a.e.mossberg (aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-11 05:44:48 PST
In <5157@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>Anyone else interested in a group for people to post dreams to? By which I >mean what goes on in your head at night, and not the "I have a dream..." >variety or literary imitations. No analysis, either; maybe an alt.dreams.d >group would be the place for that.
>I doubt if I could create an alt group from the UK even if I knew how, so >someone else will have to pick this one up. Alt seems the only option, >though; the thought of spending months arguing about the appropriate place >for it in [sci|rec|soc|talk] doesn't appeal very much.
I think it would be a good idea, but would european usenetters get alt.dreams if it were created here? Other possible names would be:
sci.psychology.dreams
rec.dreaming
soc.transculture.dreams
talk.dreams
et cetera, ad nauseum
But alt.dreams would be the best choice, as Jack mentions above.
aem
--
a.e.mossberg / aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem@umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion
America is a stronger nation for the ACLU's uncompromising effort. Jack Kennedy
Message 8 in thread
From: Christopher Pettus (cep@Apple.COM)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-11 05:50:35 PST
In article <1990May10.154319.5795@mthvax.cs.miami.edu> aem@Mthvax.CS.Miami.Edu writes:
>I think it would be a good idea, but would european usenetters get
>alt.dreams if it were created here? Other possible names would be:
>
>sci.psychology.dreams
>rec.dreaming
>soc.transculture.dreams
>talk.dreams
>et cetera, ad nauseum
Let's not reopen the old, tired, "xxx.* makes sense but has terrible distribution, so let's put it in yyy.* instead" debate. My ears are still ringing from the last one of those. In any event, I just resubscribed to news.groups after a protracted vacation, and found it worse than alt.flame for signal-to-noise ratio ...
I think a consensus has been reached about alt.dreams; who volunteers to do the newgroup?
--
Christopher Pettus, Network Connectivity Development, Apple Computer, Inc.
MS 35-K -- 408/974-0004 -- cep@apple.com -- sun!apple!cep -- link PETTUS.C
Message 9 in thread
From: Jack Campin (jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-12 22:26:44 PST
aem@Mthvax.CS.Miami.Edu wrote:
> I think it would be a good idea, but would european usenetters get
> alt.dreams if it were created here?
Yes - we get all the alt groups except the sex and drugs ones, which are blocked by the management at ukc.ac.uk.
--
-- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank
Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland 041 339 8855 x6044 work 041 556 1878 home
JANET: jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk BANG!net: via mcvax and ukc FAX: 041 330 4913
INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Message 10 in thread
From: Chris Allen (chris@tharr.UUCP)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-14 07:18:32 PST
In article <5184@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>
>Yes - we get all the alt groups except the sex and drugs ones, which are
>blocked by the management at ukc.ac.uk.
This is not true - ukc would only do this if requested by a site they were feeding. I have always had a full set of newsgroups from them.
chris.
-- chris@tharr.uucp ..!ukc!axion!tharr!chris
Disclaimer: The views expressed above are those of my employer..
<-- tharr public access to Usenet in the UK 0234 261804 -->
From: Guven Guzeldere (guven@portia.Stanford.EDU)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-11 23:41:02 PST
I would like to second your suggestion on the creation of a newsgroup on dreams. Although my interest in dreams is centered around dream physiology and dreaming as a cognitive process rather than dream content per se, and hence different from your primary interest, I think there would be enough room in such a newsgroup for discussing dreams in many aspects.
-GG
PS I had originally thought of a possible sci.psychology.dreams newsgroup, but have no objections to alt.dreams, either.
Message 12 in thread
From: John M. Blasik (john@mintaka.mlb.semi.harris.com)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-18 08:48:47 PST
I'd like to see this.
Can we also have alt.dreams.wet too?
Message 13 in thread
From: crsp_bonnie@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (crsp_bonnie@gsbacd.uchicago.edu)
Subject: RE: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-14 09:28:02 PST
I wish to cast a vote in support of alt.dreams. I remember dreams every night and often have some good ones. However, I don't know how to get a group started, either.
Can someone else help?
Bonnie J. Black
==============================================================
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&frame=right&th=36cd15c713f1d7bf&seekm=5157%40vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk#link1
================================================================
Finally this appears to be the technical post from the alt.config newsgroup, May 18, 1990 to turn on the lights for alt.dreams :
========================================================
From: Kyle Jones (kjones@talos.pm.com)
Subject: alt.dreams is coming shortly
Newsgroups: alt.config
View: (This is the only article in this thread) | Original Format
Date: 1990-05-18 09:03:04 PST
OK, since no one has voiced any objection to alt.dreams, and I'm interested in the group myself, I'll be sending out a newgroup message for alt.dreams later today.
Past experience strongly indicates that .d groups do not work unless the parent group is moderated, so I will not create alt.dreams.d. Discussion is inevitable; readers can use their own discretion when deciding how to deal with it.
------------------------------------------------------------------
============================
REFERENCES
Fraase, 1994, Guide to the Internet.
Herbert, John (1996 October). The Founding of alt.dreams: Some Historical Cyber-dreaming Notes. Electric Dreams 3(9). Retrieved January 16 2002 from Electric Dreams on the World Wide Web: http://members.telocity.com/rcw666/ed-articles/john_herbert_1996_founding_of_alt-dreams.htm
Google Search Engine for Usenet:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=1990May10.154319.5795%40mthvax.cs.miami.edu&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dalt.dreams%2Bgroup:alt.config%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D12%26as_minm%3D5%26as_miny%3D1989%26as_maxd%3D20%26as_maxm%3D12%26as_maxy%3D1990
o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
Where is the Global Dreaming News?
Now at the beginning of Electric Dreams!
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
New Series begins with dream-flow@egroup.com Digest #1 09/29/2000
This issue includes volume # 361 - # 378
Hello and welcome to the DREAM SECTION of Electric Dreams.
This section is edited by Richard Wilkerson and the DreamEditor, a software creation of Harry Bosma, author of the Dream interpretation and journaling software "Alchera".
(homepage: http://mythwell.com)
Please note that we print these dreams as they come to us and that means we do not correct the spelling. Some dreamworkers find these spelling mistakes a great window on the dream and dreamer.
The Electric Dreams DREAM SECTION includes dreams and comments from the DREAM FLOW, a project to circulate dreams in Cyberspace.
Many mail lists participate, including
dream-flow@lists.best.com
dreamstream@topical.com
DreamsRus@onelist.com
The Dream Sack http//www.deeplistening.org/ione
Usenet groups (too many to name, search DREAM)
If you would like to send in single dreams for the flow, you can leave them at
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/temple
If you have a mail list or would like to contribute dreams and comments on a regular basis, you can subscribe to the dream-flow by sending an E-mail to
TO:
dream-flow-subscribe@egroups.com
You may get a note back to verify the subscription. Simply hit the return or reply key and send the note back.
An Archive of dream-flow is available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/dream-flow@egroups.com/
Pre-November 2000:
http://www.mail-archive.com/dream-flow@lists.best.com/
Pre-November 1998
http://www.mail-archive.com/ed-core@lists.best.com/
Pre-April 1990
Use Electric Dreams Backissues
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-backissues
------------------------- BEGIN ---------------------------
___________________________________________________________
361-378
[dream-flow] Digest Number 361
____________________________________________________________
There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Ghost House
From: fallenstar0314
2. question phase for past away brother
From: fallenstar0314
3. supernatural invasion
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 14:03:37 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: Ghost House
Richard,
I feel that you may be dreaming of a past life you had. Since it is reoccurring it maybe it is from a past life and it is trying to tell u something.
Lori
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 14:07:51 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: question phase for past away brother
Mr.7575,
Did you feel scared when you saw him? When you were thinking about it when he told you to come with him, do you think you may have been so sad about him leaving that a part of your subconscious actually wanted to go with him? Or no? Are you afraid of death?
Lori
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 11:25:36 -0800
From: stan kulikowski ii <stankuli@etherways.com>
(Stan requests his name, dream and address be kept together - Editor)
Subject: dream: supernatural invasion
X-Loop-Detect: 1
Status:
DATE : 28 dec 2001 10:34
DREAM : supernatural invasion
=( last night i got to bed around 01:00, and read _characteristicks of men, manners_ until 03:30. the first volume has gotten better after the introductory sections of lengthy eighteenth century apologies and posturings. earlier in the evening i had gone out to the monthly board meeting of the macintosh user club to explain their web site to the new club officers. it has gotten cold and i got in a new smaller load of firewood. )=
the white sands and sea oats of the beach shore community would normally be peaceful at dawn, but in these cold mornings the people arise before the sun to comb their beaches. twice a month, in the nights of a crescent moon, the small boxes wash ashore, sent by an implacable enemy these containers are irregular in shape, usually rectangular. some small enough to easily be carried in the palm of your hand, others requiring two men to lift them onto a pickup truck. constructed of wood and brass, the sides are covered in ornate arabic calligraphy of barbarous words of hate and confusion.
most of the boxes are empty, but i am getting a sense of which ones are truly charged with malevolence. a priest hurries down to the roadside to help me get this crate onto consecrated ground which will insulate its contents before it can spread. this box is small but tremendously heavy.
we hoist the box, a cube maybe forty centimeters wide, onto a stone alter which has been set up near the rectory for these impromptu ceremonies. while the priest chants a prayer to charge the cabalistic circles inscribed in the alter top, i begin to hack off the corners of the container with a small coping saw. nine out of ten times this process results in nothing. but as i said, i am developing a sense of which are loaded and which are duds.
sure enough, after i cut a chunk off the third corner, the box fizzes and hisses out of its seams. with a thunk it splits apart and out leaps a creature of venom and hate. i am certain to pull my hands out of the containment circles before it can snap off any of my fingers.
"horrens sis imprimature" the thing on the alter top sqawks in a voice like a crow or raven. it looks something like a mix between a bird and a cat, perhaps about forty or fifty centimeters long and about half as tall. but the extraordinary perspective is that it is only one centimeter wide, like it was cut out by a cookie cutter. basicly, a two dimensional object superimposed in 3D world and struggling to maintain its grip on reality.
most of them do not talk, but this one continues to spew curses. if it is speaking latin, my grasp of the language is insufficient to understand or recall what it is trying to say. i can tell by the tone of its screeches that it is not happy with its condition on hatching out.
slowly the little creature's speech turns from its initial hatred to a sound of despair as it realizes that it has been released from its magical shell too early. gravity is more its enemy than our containment spells. with whimpering cries of pain, it slowly dissolves back into the ether which spawned it.
i suffer with it. these pathetic beings do not deserve this miserable fate, but they have been constructed with but the one purpose of spreading chaos and death. this morning the search crews found twelve such boxes brought in on the tides. this was the only one which hatched.
the morning sun is now well up and soon it will be time for the beach combers to gather at the breakfast bar after hours and miles of cold wet shoreline. the priest looks at me with sympathy, but he refuses to give any comfort to the unholy creature whose dying wails are now just echoes in the new day.
=( originally i woke with this dream near 07:30 but fell back to sleep and continued with more of it, but the remainder has been lost to my recall by now. my latin dictionary tells me that 'horrens sis imprimature' means something like 'the horror of being pressed out' which would fit its narrow and confined existence. i am surprised that the words, however ungrammatical, have any meaning. i can usually just decode written latin and have no fluency in its speech. in the dream there was a much longer sequence of words that sounded to me like latin, but the first few syllables are all that i can retain in my short term memory based purely upon their sounds. )=
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 362
____________________________________________________________
There are 2 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Premonition of September 11, 2001 tragedy
From: Anonymous
2. Re: Premonition of September 11, 2001 tragedy
From: Alice E <egoyandreaming
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 18:54:45 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Premonition of September 11, 2001 tragedy
dream_title: Premonition of September 11, 2001 tragedy
dream_date: August 2001
dreamer_name: Dreamweaver
dream_text: I was sleeping and I started having one of my out-of-body experiences. I was inside a woman looking out through her eye's. She was looking out of a window high up in the air. The sun started turning red from smoke and then there was something silver coming down from out of the sky. All of the sudden her feet started burning. Then all of the sudden I was in a man's body and he was in a big house, like a mansion, and it had beautiful furniture in it with alote of gold things in it. I believe it to be in Egypt. He must of past in front of a mirror because, I remember what he looks like. He is tall, slender, dark hair, dark brown eyes, dark completion and is clean shaven. He has on a white or light yellow shirt. Some men come running in and tell him he has to leave with then immediately. They get into a dark colored car and precede down a road very fast. They are all scared. Missiles start hitting the ground and one of them hits this car he is in. He is burning and then I wake up in a sweat. My feet are still burning. This is strange because, I usually don't carry people's pain over when I wake up. I immediately called my mother as I always do when I have these o.b.e.'s or premonitions. I told her I was really scared this time and I was afraid something bad was fixing to happen in the United States. When I was watching t.v. as they were showing live what was happening in New York I was devastated. I started crying because, I felt I knew that women in that building. I had shared her pain with her. I would like anyone that has these premonitions to come forward and maybe we can all help each other to stop these tragedies from happening. Thank you for your time and may God Bless you all. Sincerely, Sherri Curtis
dream_comments: I hope you don't cut any of this out. I would really like everyone to read this. Thank you for letting me have an opportunity to share this with other people. I hope in some way it will help us to get together to help one another to achieve a better more peaceful place to live. Sincerely, Sherri Curtis Round Rock, Texas I don't mind if you feel the need to share my identity with others. If I can help in any way I would be happy to.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:04:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Alice E <egoyandreaming
Subject: Re: Premonition of September 11, 2001 tragedy
This is an amazing dream! I know the feeling. I have OOBE's all the time.
Okay, I am going to share two here. The first is one from July 23rd. I have attached a drawing. I scribbled it really early in the morning half awake guys, so don't laugh. : )
July 23rd In the distance there is a large devil looming large above the city. Then he is standing in between towers and laughing. I am flying and all around me are angels hanging from stars-being carried by the stars as though they are their vehicles. And the stars are so beautiful, and I'm up there soaring with them. And there are hundreds, or thousands probably of these stars all around. And the devil in the city becomes more distant, but he throws his head back and laughs. But I am flying with the others and am safe. The angels and bright stars were everywhere!
And then the night before Sept. 11-(A friend said this made sense symbolically, what do you think?) There are people on a boat, or ship. They are dark-skinned. They've put black cans with ropes attached and tossed them overboard and some floated on the surface of the water. And it was night and they went out to bring back these parachuting cans and there were lights in the cans, they were protection. They had to release them out into the ocean and then follow them but only some would return with their lantern and the others would perish at sea and this renewed the people.
I know it doesn't exactly made sense, but I was literally writing with my eyes closed. It seemed important, you know how some dreams just seem that way? Oddly enough, I woke with a start to the sound of a very large jet overhead, apparently one that had been diverted and instructed to land immediately at our local airport. It set of car alarms and everything.
Anyhow, that is my bit. Is the list always this slow or is it the holiday season? Just curious. : )
-Alice
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There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Was this just a dream?
From: Anonymous
2. Burning bodies
From: Anonymous
3. Grandma telephoned
From: Anonymous
4. Beethoven
From: Anonymous
5. Breaking objective
From: Anonymous
6. death
From: Anonymous
7. Re: burried by potatos
From: fallenstar0314
8. Re: Cranes, Children, Sisters, and a Fatal Earthquake
From: fallenstar0314
9. Question phase for: Death
From: fallenstar0314
10. Re: Grandma telephoned
From: fallenstar0314
11. Re: Was this just a dream?
From: fallenstar0314
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:29:04 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Was this just a dream?
dream_title: (NONE)
dream_date: 12-28-01
dreamer_name: whininsimon
dream_text: NOTE: My uncle (we shall call him Barry) took his life in 1979 at the age of 29 when I was three years old.
DREAM-The scenery around me was simple, perhaps I was walking down a street when Barry appears. He has grown older, sporting a bit more of a conservative look. He greets me warmly and invites me to take a walk with him. He begins to show me things-it's like the scenes are painted on the sky, the people do not notice us. He shows various scenes of our family in turmoil as well as scenes of his life. He hints that I am a lot like he was and that he did not plan his fate. I am gathering that he is worried/concerned about me. He expresses that we share the same sort of emotional disposition. The next scenes are grim. They are continuing scenes of our family in crisis, only this time, I am among them. (I could see myself in the scenes where before I only watched.) He explains the emotional state he lived in and how it was going to swallow me. I wouldn't see it coming. It would be a mass of emotions and feelings that I could not comprehend. He stressed that I would follow his fate if I did not change.
dream_comments: Was this just a dream? Please understand that my rendition of this dream is in no way suggesting that I am inclined to take my life. However, I took it as a warning-as someone who loves me watching out and someone telling me to change my ways of thinking and of life. There is no way I can reproduce that dream, it may seem boring to some. The simple fact is....you had to be there. Thank You-Whininsimon
Please Use My Real Email address: whininsimon@hotmail.com
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:29:33 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Burning bodies
dream_title: Burning bodies
dream_date: October, 2001
dreamer_name: Suzanne
dream_text: 1. I saw a helicopter about 500 yards from me. It was hovering over the Hudson River while bodies engulfed in flames fell out of it.
2. I was sitting mid bus behind the driver while riding south on the Lexington Avenue bus. I looked out of my window and stopped in traffic next to my bus was a flatbed truck with severely burned people who had already been medically treated. They were sitting on straight-backed chairs staring off into space. The chairs reminded me of the ones in the Oklahoma memorial to the victims of the bombing there.
dream_comments: This is one of several dreams I had which I am sure are connected with 9/11. I live in Manhattan and knew 1 person who died and another who was severely injured. My feelings about this event seem to be that this is not the only terrorist activity that will happen to us, and in time there will be other horrible things done to America by these despicable fanatics. I suspect my dreams are reflective of my fear of the future.
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:29:57 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Grandma telephoned
dream_title: Grandma telephoned
dream_date: 1990
dreamer_name: Suzanne
dream_text: My beloved Grandmother had recently died at age 100. We had been close. In my dream I answered the telephone. It was Grandma! I said:"Grandma, where are you?" (I knew she was dead). "In Grand Central Station" she answered. I asked her what year it was and she said "1941". "Grandma, I want to see you but I don't know the topography of the city in 1941". That was a year before I was born! She told me to meet her on 76th street and Madison Avenue, near the Carlysle hotel. The scene reopened at that location and I was standing there with her, but she looked like a grey puff of smoke, roughly grandma sized.
dream_comments: When I awoke I was so happy. I felt I had just spent a few minutes with her. It was wonderful. Think of all the dimentions here - she called me from beyond the grave, from a year before I was born, into the present day and then appeared to me as a puff of smoke or a grey cloud in her shape. This dream was fantastic!
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:30:18 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Beethoven
dream_title: Beethoven
dream_date: 6/2001
dreamer_name: Suzanne
dream_text: I walked into a long, narrow room. The walls were a dark cream color and the other colors were dark woods, and faded old papers. The whole thing was browns and beiges. At the end of the room facing me was a large, paned, doublehung window. The right wall was blank, but the left wall held bookshelves from floor to ceiling filled with papers, old books, etc. and was very messy. In the center of these shelves was an upright piano, and playing furiously away was Beethoven! He was standing, wearing a dark vest, white shirt, knickers to the knees with tights and dark shoes with buckles. He knew I was there but did not acknowledge me in any way, just kept playing. I was thrilled to be there.
dream_comments: Obviously I am a Beethoven fan. I have romanticized this dream to think that in some way perhaps he knows and let me hear him play in person!
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:30:53 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Breaking objective
ream_title: Breaking objective
dream_date: 27.22.01
dreamer_name: anonymous
dream_text: i'm cameraman(really).on the shooting i break objective my camera.i'm in stress.
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:31:20 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: death
dream_title: death
dream_date: 12/29/01
dreamer_name: anonymous
dream_text: i was arguing with my sister then suddenly i backed away from her and then i fell down the window, while i was falling down i was with the people who were watching me falling down and i didnot realize that it was me who was falling down. n'ways i then said "ohh look the girl who is falling down have really great hair" then i just realized that it was me who was falling down . well then i die. and my spirit goes back in to the house and then i first accused my sister of pushing me out the window then i just remembered that i backed away from her that is why i fell. then my spirit goes to my mom and my mom is not really paying any attention to methen i tell her oh see mom i used to say god pick me up and he did and my mom sort of starts yelling at me. n'ways i feel sort of good being dead . it was really like reality then i wake up.
dream_comments: it is strange,wierd
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:47:30 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: burried by potatos
Beatrice,
Look up potatoes in a dream dictionary. Also, how did you feel when he was putting on the potatoes? Do u have any Ideas what it could mean?
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:06:01 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: Cranes, Children, Sisters, and a Fatal Earthquake
FR dog,
What did these girls look like? It sounds like a spiritual dream. It seems like you might be feeling like you and your sister for some reason have very little time together or you feel shes moving away from you ( The hill and getting older could be when you two where kids, even though they were different girls) The birds probably represent some kind of spiritual meaning to your life and maybe your sisters life too. This is what I can make of it.
Lori
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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:20:54 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Question phase for: Death
Dear anonoymus:
Well, Death usually means a change in ones life. But this dream, you seem like you are just getting back at everyone who ever betrayed you. Are you stressed or fighting with your sister and your Mom? Do you want revenge on them? '
Lori
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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:24:17 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: Grandma telephoned
Suzanne,
It sounds like You actually had a little visit with your grandmother. I don't know what 1941 means...But you saw her and you fely great. The gray like figure most likely means she is a ghost, not just that but when she called you new she wasn't alive.
Lori
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:28:29 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: Was this just a dream?
Dear Withinsimon,
WOW! Thats one dream! It's so deeep! No, I do not persoanlly think that was just a dream! I think that your uncle was really trying to warn u!!! Try to prevent what happened to him with fixing your own life. Look closely at things. I also feel that family memeber always come back to visit, even if they are not trying to warn us.
Lori
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[dream-flow] Digest Number 364
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There is 1 message in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. dreams are merely thoughs
From: Anonymous
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:25:02 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: dreams are merely thoughs
dream_title: dreams are merely thoughs
dream_date: January 1, 2002
dreamer_name: anonymous
dream_text: I dreamt that I finally figured out what dreams are: Merely our thoughts when we are at our most restful "posture" i.e. sleep!!
Now, I have read that dreams are mostly prospective and pictorial and often with sound, feeling, and sometimes tasting, but, I can "dream" while I am "awake" and so can almost everyone else.
So, you people that are all worked up about what you dream...STOP WORRYING (WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS WHAT WE DO WHEN WE HAVE WHAT ARE CALLED N I G H T M A R E S--JUST FEED THE NIGHTMARES SOME HAY AND THEY'LL GO AWAY)
dream_comments: SEE NOTES OF "DREAM". I'm sorry to disappoint all you dream buffs, but we are just hurting a lot of anxious mentally disturbed people. Let's get into the 21st Century, stop the "bubba misas" {you can ask your Jewish friends what this means} and start concentrating on important things. Let's leave psychoanalytical procedures to experts...i.e. stop playing with fire. {for further information about this you will have to read my forthcoming book: You Gotta Be Dreaming" (copywrite). Berel Scheib {PLEASE USE MY REAL NAME.}
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[dream-flow] Digest Number 365
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: dreams are merely thoughs
From: Lauren Swartzmiller <lauren
2. Meeting my baby
From: Anonymous
3. reccuring december
From: Anonymous
4. Harry Potter, etc...
From: Anonymous
5. Future?
From: Anonymous
6. Falling
From: Anonymous
7. osama school shooting
From: Anonymous
8. letme know what a dream means
From: Anonymous
9. glass,sandwich,teeth
From: Anonymous
10. brother inlaw
From: Anonymous
11. gonna bomb the house
From: Anonymous
12. dead deer
From: Anonymous
13. Oak Tree
From: Anonymous
14. Nightly Adventures
From: Anonymous
15. Reply to : dreams are merely thoughs
From: Anonymous
16. Re: Future?
From: LOSTKRAFT
17. Re: letme know what a dream means
From: LOSTKRAFT
18. Re: glass,sandwich,teeth
From: LOSTKRAFT
19. Re: brother inlaw
From: LOSTKRAFT
20. Re: Reply to : dreams are merely thoughs
From: "Lorraine Gerretsen" <lgerretsen
21. Explain this to me
From: "Lorraine Gerretsen" <lgerretsen
22. Re: brother inlaw ' morgana'
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
23. DEATH OF A FRIEND
From: Aprilnite
24. Re: Nightly Adventures susan
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
25. Re: DEATH OF A FRIEND
From: LOSTKRAFT
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 08:41:29 -0500
From: Lauren Swartzmiller <lauren
Subject: Re: dreams are merely thoughs
Hello, Berel,
Your philosophy of "It happens, get over over it" as far as dreaming goes is simple, and it would be nice to simply accept that dreams are just our brain's way of dealing with what's going on in our lives and don't worry about it. While there has always been some question that this is 100% true - stepping briefly into the concept of precognitive dreaming and other parapsychological considerations - for the most part, dreams are indeed just abstracts, occasionally strange, that our brains use to deal with our day to day existences.
Thing is, in order to understand ourselves beyond what we see in the mirror, and deal with how we feel about a given subject in our lives, we occasionally need to sit and ponder - and sit in wonder of - this little REM sleep activity. Now, some prefer not to know themselves beyond what they learn in the waking world, and that is their right. But, other folks want to know more, want to understand more. It is an area of our lives which is exclusively ours, plays which we produce ourselves based in both fact and fiction, and for some, it's not enough to merely let them run their course and wait for the next surreal show to begin.
The majority of people who post dreams are not in need of expert help. They're not all emotionally crippled or anxious, mentally disturbed individuals. They don't all need to see a psychological counselor to deal with issues which are playing out in their heads during sleep. Certainly, it is possible that there are a few, and I would highly recommend asking a professional counselor (psychiatrist, psychologist, MSW, etc) about recurrent dreams or consistently disturbing dreams. But for the occasional, "Okay, what was that all about?" dream, and even for the regular dreams that someone might want to glean more from, it doesn't hurt to relate the dream. Sometimes, just writing it down can help us to understand it better. Some people, having no clue as to what a particular dream means to them, may ask others for their opinion. It's a normal reaction. We reach out to others sometimes in order to understand and help ourselves.
There are no clear cut dream analysis parameters, and one person's approach to a dream's meaning may be totally different from the next. Even among dream experts - ones with degrees and years of experience - there are differences in opinion. Let's face it, even in the dream world, one size does not fit all. The approach in this group is to treat another dreamer's dream as if it were their own. This may result in a myriad of interpretations. You may call that confusing for the dreamer, but it could simply help the dreamer to look more carefully at the dream from different perspectives, look at their waking lives, and then try to correlate the two for the answer(s) they seek. Ultimately, the interpretation is always the dreamer's. They can accept or reject what is offered from any source.
Relax and breathe, my friend, and good luck with your upcoming book.
Lauren
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:50:46 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Meeting my baby
dream_title: Meeting my baby
dream_date: oct 2001 -- jan 2002
dreamer_name: Jesseesgirl
dream_text: I am 26 weeks pregnant and have a reacurring dream. In this dream I am able to pull my unborn child from my womb and some times we talk and sometimes it is just so I can see how much she has grown and what she looks like. I allways put her back because she is not finished developing. The last time I had this dream I discovered she had my husbands eyes.
dream_comments: I believe the reason I have these dreams is obvious. I am anxious to see her and want be with her. These drams are to help me prepare for or console me til she arrives. I do wonder about her alot.
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:51:20 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: reccuring december
dream_title: meteor rain
dream_date: reccuring december
dreamer_name: dufus
dream_text: walk outside to see the beautiful sight of multicoloured shooting stars, except they fall softly[more like a fireworks]in the thousands. I feel drawn into them and as part of the light and warmth
dream_comments: i first dreamt this the night of the meteor shower in december.2[?]weeks later similar dream with the addition of watching 2 planets [venus & jupiter?]alligning.energy!!!feel free to add my email address,it would be great to chat to others with like exp.johnstonnic@hotmail.com
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:51:41 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Harry Potter, etc...
dream_title: Harry Potter, etc...
dream_date: i can't remember
dreamer_name: someone confused
dream_text: Tih is kind of like a question and a dream. Ok, I had just read my Harry Potter book before going to sleep. I had a dream about the book. Then the next night, right before bed I watched my fave show and had a dream about it. Do you dream about things like current events or novels after, before, or both they happen?
dream_comments: This is more of a question.
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:52:03 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Future?
dream_title: Future?
dream_date: dunno
dreamer_name: anonymous
dream_text: A lot of times i have dreams. Once I had a dream where this guy was chasing me. He was trying to kill me or something. I remember running into a building in hiding. A week or two later, my family was driving to Meijer and I saw what looked like the exact same building from my dream. We stopped there and I felt like I had been there before, like this was quite familiar. I have had several of these phenomenons, but don't really understand. Can dreams predict the near future? Or are these merely misunderstood emotions?
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:52:35 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Falling
dream_title: Falling
dream_date: Repeatly
dreamer_name: po-po-40
dream_text: I fall off a high landing twice. The first time I fall off and can't get up nor walk. The second time I am push off and can't walk.
Then the dream changes place and my leg feels heavy and I'm holding a knife which breaks into a hundred pieces (almost like needles) and puncture my hands.
dream_comments: I have had these dreams repeatly for several weeks. This is concerning to me. Please use my Dreamer's Pen name, only. Thanks for your help.
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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:53:01 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: osama school shooting
dream_title: osama school shooting
dream_date: 12-28-01
dreamer_name: Kara
dream_text: I was in my school's cafeteria, and all of a sudden armies against the US came barging into my school. They formed to lines on two stages, and then Osama said to fire. Machine guns were shooting bullets everywhere, I warned my brother, then I turned away and I was shot, but not hurt.
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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:53:27 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: letme know what a dream means
dream_date: 010102
dreamer_name: anonymous
dream_text: Please letme know what a dream means with a basement,river,horse,foulin it
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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:53:54 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: glass,sandwich,teeth
dream_title: glass,sandwich,teeth
dream_date: 12/01
dreamer_name: bunkie
dream_text: I woke up and remembered my dream. It went like this; I was eating a sandwich and in front of me was a door and a wall. A lady came through the doorway (I don't know who she was) and I was eating a sandwich. I looked at the sandwich and it had a square piece of glass in it and I could feel myself bitting through the glass in the sandwich. The lady looked at me and all of my teeth started to fall out and I could see them and blood. That was all the dream was.
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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:54:13 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: brother inlaw
dream_title: brother inlaw
dream_date: 12/29/01
dreamer_name: morgana
dream_text: i never met my brother inlaw he died right after we were married.but i dream about him the phone was ringing in my dream and my husband said it is only harvey don't answer later he was talking to me and i remenber he said to me see you in three days.
dream_comments: first time i dreamed of him he told me he had been waiting for me because i was the only one who could bring him back from a very desolate place where he was at.
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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:54:49 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: gonna bomb the house
dream_date: 9-13-01
dreamer_name: ~*~Michelle~*~
dream_text: Well two days after the attack I had a very weird dream about it I had a dream that they were all coming back and I was at my good friend Amber's house and her mom told us to get out because they were gonna bomb the house So we went outside and slept outside and I was panicing then the bomb hit the house and i started crying and then i woke up. That was a very strange dream
dream_comments: This was a very strange dream i really dont understand it I mean why would they wanna bomb a house?
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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:55:11 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: dead deer
dream_title: dead deer
dream_date: 01/04/02
dreamer_name: gelfie
dream_text: I was walking in what was supposed to be some land we own in the country. But I had never seen this place. I was walking along the road and next to it was a shallow river bed that was dry. It was filled with hundreds of dead deer-of all sizes and shapes.I walked up the hill to were the care takers lived (?) (there are no caretakers on this land)But they were not at home but some relative was there watching the place. I questioned them about the deer but they did not answer. I continued walking the road until I got to were we normally set up camp, and some people I know were there, along with campers who are strangers to me. Instead of the land being very wooded it was large and cleared out, with buildings on it. I talked with them, and the other campers were very hostile feeling even though I did not talk with them. The 3 people that were on my campsite 2 of them I know very well, and I got the impression that they were seeing each other...as in dating. I remember asking them about the deer but I never got a response.
dream_comments: Everything I read about this dream really lent itself to seeing bad luck in my future. I am trying very hard not to make this a reality.
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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:55:27 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Oak Tree
dream_title: Oak Tree
dream_date: 1-7-02
dreamer_name: sadie
dream_text: My fiance decided to cheat on me with an old girlfriend, and I was so angry that I tried to make him crash his car. Just as the car was about to crash into an Oak tree I saw an old Indian man with long, black hair, an elaborate blue and white swirled buck skin garment, and a sad expression. As the car hit the tree, the tree turned into a beautiful Indian princess, equally dressed. Then I woke up.
dream_comments: In my dream my husband was still just my fiance. And the ex-girlfriend he was seeing was someone he has never even met. Once I saw the Indian, the anger ceased to exist.
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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:55:56 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Nightly Adventures
dream_title: Nightly Adventures
dream_date: Almost Regularly
dreamer_name: Susan
dream_text: I have the same dream regularly for the last few years. The details may differ but basically the content remains the same. There are three basic components - 1)I am running/being chased/hiding/scared/in trouble with/ usually an authority figure or someone I love who is upset with me. 2)There is an impending doom- usually some type of natural disaster or invasion- I have to get everyone on the move. & 3)I am constantly moving (residences)& worried about it- Is there enough room, where do I put the furniture, which room to take, etc.
dream_comments: What the?????????? I am tired of these dreams- any ideas??
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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 11:59:56 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Reply to : dreams are merely thoughs
Hi Berel,
I have a few comments about your theory.
>>>>>dream_text: I dreamt that I finally figured out what dreams are: Merely our thoughts when we are at our most restful "posture" i.e. sleep!!<<<<<<<
You might be interested in reading Freud's "Interpretation of Dreams" where he comes to a similar conclusion about dream-thoughts. The dynamics of what happens to the thoughts are elaborate and continually debated, but the dream-as-thought idea is well developed. He wasn't the first to explore this. 19th Century associationalists were big on this. Basically there was some kind of stimulus and the mind spins associational thoughts from one another. Freud picked up on this and his dream interpretation method is based on the
notion that through free association, one could follow the train of association back to their source. This is still hotly debated, but the technique remains useful regardless of whether it really recovers the origin of the associations or not.
>>>>>>>>Now, I have read that dreams are mostly prospective and pictorial and often with sound, feeling, and sometimes tasting, but, I can "dream" while I am "awake" and so can almost everyone else. <<<<<<<<<<
This needs a little unfolding and further definition to be clear to me. Are you trying to say that we create autonomous thought during waking life? How are you distinguishing this from imagination, daydreaming, hallucination, willed fantasy, and spontaneous imagination?
I would agree that people have continual spontaneous thinking. That is, inner narratives that are being spun with little or no conscious efforting and willing. Or at least, little or no ego-conscious awareness.
I also feel there is a continual generation of visuals, audios, kinesthetics or haptics, emotions and other sensations that are being generated spontaneously during waking life. Generally we aren't aware of these because re-direction of attention (willfull acts that change focus) tend to disrupt our awareness of subtle processes, amplifying stimuli from the "outer" world. During sleep, especially REM sleep, there is a stimulus barrier which makes it more difficult for stimulus to have an impact on these subtle processes. Alarms, bangs, and people doing things like calling our name out will often get over this stimulus barrier during sleep and thereby impact our dreams. The research I like on this most is DHervery De Saint Denys, and 19th Century aristocrat who studied dreams. He would have ladies at the ball all wear different types of perfume and then dance with them. That night, his servant would put these different scents on his pillow, and then wake him up. He would record if that woman was in his dream. He had much success with this associational technique. Now-a-days the research is more along the lines of showing people movies before sleep, spraying water on them during sleep and that kind of stuff.
Lucid dreaming:
Anyway, since people can have lucid dreams (dreams where one is fully aware one is dreaming, yet remains in the dream state) the notion of dreams being simply spontaneous thoughts becomes a major theoretical problem. If one can be dreaming and fully willing within a particular dream-world, or even change to another dream-world, and this is fundamentally a different experience than day-dreaming while awake, how can we say that dreams are "just" thoughts or that dreams are just spontaneous?
These people in lucid dreams are not faking being asleep. They are in fact in R.E.M. dream state and this has been thoroughly studied at Stanford and replicated in labs around the world.
People in lucid dreams can think and imagine. (its hard to calculate, but some have done this). So it appears as if there is a dream-state, and thinking can INFLUENCE and CONTROL and RELATE to the content and flow during this state, but can't really be said to constitute it, to make it up.
(I guess one could posit that we can think while thinking, or think inside of thinking. This seems rather confusing)
>>>>So, you people that are all worked up about what you dream...STOP WORRYING (WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS WHAT WE DO WHEN WE HAVE WHAT ARE CALLED N I G H T M A R E S--JUST FEED THE NIGHTMARES SOME HAY AND THEY'LL GO AWAY)<<<<<<<<<<
This would require we dump all we have learned in psychology. People get possessed by various states of mind and emotion. Simply telling it to go away doesn't work for those having anxiety attack or hysteric reaction. Talking about the situation is very useful, but not the full story. For more on nightmares and nightmare control, see http://www.asdreams.org/nightmares.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>dream_comments: SEE NOTES OF "DREAM". I'm sorry to disappoint all you dream buffs, but we are just hurting a lot of anxious mentally disturbed people. Let's get into the 21st Century, stop the "bubba misas" {you can ask your Jewish friends what this means} and start concentrating on important things. Let's leave psychoanalytical procedures to experts...i.e. stop playing with fire. {for further information about this you will have to read my forthcoming book: You Gotta Be Dreaming" (copywrite). Berel Scheib {PLEASE USE MY REAL NAME.}<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>but we are just hurting a lot of anxious mentally disturbed people
Could you elaborate on that a bit? Do you feel that a natural part of your being should only be handled by "experts" ? Let's free dreams from the couch where they have been hidden for too many centuries and return them to the culture were they can be shared as they were for millions of years.
- Richard
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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:47:17 EST
From: LOSTKRAFT
Subject: Re: Future?
Maybe it was a premonition to a lesser degree, of a place u may be going. I have had a few of these dreams. They have been dreams that seemed insignificant, and it turned out that the "place" I dreamed about, is where I ended up!
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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:48:45 EST
From: LOSTKRAFT
Subject: Re: letme know what a dream means
What was the condition of the house? A house in a dream may represent you.
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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:50:10 EST
From: LOSTKRAFT
Subject: Re: glass,sandwich,teeth
Teeth in dreams are VERY significant. First and foremost, they could mean dental problems. Teeth falling out may represent a loss of decisiveness.
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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:51:54 EST
From: LOSTKRAFT
Subject: Re: brother inlaw
Maybe he was actually communicating with u? And y u? maybe you are the only one who is open and receptive to it.
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Message: 20
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:26:26 +0000
From: "Lorraine Gerretsen" <lgerretsen
Subject: Re: Reply to : dreams are merely thoughs
[This message is not in displayable format]
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Message: 21
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:35:03 +0000
From: "Lorraine Gerretsen" <lgerretsen
Subject: Explain this to me
[This message is not in displayable format]
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There are 4 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: dead deer gelfie
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
2. Re: DEATH OF A FRIEND
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
3. Re: Explain this to me
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
4. Lie Abode
From: Anonymous
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 09:29:14 +1100
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
Subject: Re: dead deer gelfie
>From: "Wilkerson, Richard" <rcwilk@dreamgate.com> >Reply-To: dream-flow@yahoogroups.com >To: dream-flow@yahoogroups.com,dreamstream@topica.com,DreamsRus@onelist.com >Subject: [dream-flow] dead deer >Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:55:11 -0800 > > >dream_title: dead deer > >dream_date: 01/04/02 > >dreamer_name: gelfie > >dream_comments: Everything I read about this dream really lent itself to >seeing bad luck in my future. I am trying very hard not to make this a >reality. >gday gelfie [cool dream name]!don't sweat!if u have "bad luck" you"ll learn >something powerful from the exp,so after a while u might see it as good >luck.besides what others tell u is a meaning is just an interpretation,only >u can decide what u r trying 2 tell yourself.best wishes & happy alltimes 2 >u ! > >
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There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. unsuscribe
From: RUMMENS1 <RUMMENS1
2. Re: Explain this to me
From: "Lorraine Gerretsen" <lgerretsen
3. Re: Explain this to me
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 13:28:43 +1100
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
Subject: Re: Explain this to me
gday lorraine,could be-could be an unknown spirit searching for help or whatever,could be an aspect of your self.everyone has a shadow or 'dark side' to their personality after all.there may be a more scientific explanation as well.you'll know what the answer is,whatever 'feels' right inside you.just believe in your own strength.then again these are just my opinions/beliefs so none of these may be right for u.hows that 4 a useless answer eh! have fun & write me anytime. >
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There are 9 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. LOOSE TOOTH
From: Anonymous
2. Teddy Bears
From: Anonymous
3. Re: dreams are merely thoughs
From: fallenstar0314
4. Re: Meeting my baby
From: fallenstar0314
5. Re: Nightly Adventures
From: fallenstar0314
6. Re: Future?
From: fallenstar0314
7. Re: Harry Potter, etc...
From: fallenstar0314
8. Re: osama school shooting
From: fallenstar0314
9. Re: Falling
From: fallenstar0314
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 09:03:36 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: LOOSE TOOTH
dream_title: LOOSE TOOTH
dream_date: 1-5-02
dreamer_name: anonymous
dream_text: I see that my cousin and sister got this real short haircut and I wanted the same haircut so I go to the hairdresser (although the setting was not a hairshop it was like a restaurant) but instead of doing my hair he checks my teeth and one of my back teeth was very loose and he just pulls it out and I can feel the pain; then my uncle goes to see him to see why he did this and he says he should not have and i don't remember now but is was something like he gives my uncle money to buy me a house or gives me a house for pullingmyh tooth out instead of cutting my hair -
what does this all mean? maggie miller
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 09:59:03 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Teddy Bears
dream_title: Teddy Bears
dream_date: 12/20/01
dreamer_name: anonymous
dream_text: I dreamt that I was the master of a city full of stuffed teddy bears. There were 2 classes; worker bears and police bears. The workers lived underground and worked in mines, and the police guarded the workers, carrying M16s and making sure the workers were doing their job. The guards would kill the workers that gave them trouble, and I would just watch.
dream_comments: I don't recall having any thoughts regarding stuffed animals or seeing any before having this dream, as a result I find this particular dream fascinating.
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 16:52:56 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: dreams are merely thoughs
anonymous,
Dreams are thoughts for people and are not for certain people. For a lot of people, dreams tell them information that they need to reflect on in life.
Lori
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:02:18 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: Meeting my baby
jesseesgirl,
I have a dream like that a lot. I am basically metting my unborn child, really. Since she is grown up and can talk, I have a reason to believe that she was reincarnated and was meant to come to you.
Lori
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:05:31 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: Nightly Adventures
Susan,
I have questions for you: What has your life been like for the last couple of years? Is it like your dream describes? Is your mental mind actually thinkinmg and going fast? These dreams with running and hiding usually mean that you feel insecure about something. Otherwise, these may be dreams of a past life.
Lori
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:08:19 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: Future?
Anonymous,
I think these could actually be past, not future. B/c if you JUST noticed the building, then somewhere in some other life time, you have been there OR it could be that somehow you picked up a bad vibe and maybe your dream says stay away from this place, then u see it the next day......That could be the future part.
Lori
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:10:05 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: Harry Potter, etc...
Someone confused,
Yes, you can dream about current events. Also, if you are the type of person who thinks alot, that can provoke reenactments of your day.
Lori
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:11:29 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: osama school shooting
Kara,
I don't think this means it will actually happen. I think its a common anxiety of "What if this happens to me?"
Lori
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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:15:47 EST
From: fallenstar0314
Subject: Re: Falling
po-po-40,
Whenever I have adream I am falling, it is usually because I feel like I have to be doing something other than sleeping and something feels not right and I am insecure about how my day was or something thats in my life. Before you go to bed at night, write down how you are feeling and a summary of your day and anything that could trigger a dream of falling that occured in your day.
Lori
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[dream-flow] Digest Number 370
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There are 14 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. (no subject)
From: Aprilnite
2. Airplanes Crashing
From: Anonymous
3. terror
From: Anonymous
4. FROM THE PAST
From: Anonymous
5. Death of a Friend
From: Anonymous
6. Snakes
From: Anonymous
7. Heroic effort
From: Anonymous
8. melissa
From: Anonymous
9. Paralysed
From: Anonymous
10. Re: Snakes
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
11. Re: melissa
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
12. Re: terror
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
13. Re: Paralysed
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
14. Re: IF THIS DOESN'T GET MY POINT ACROSS, i'M SLITTING MY WRISTS ...
From: eddie0787
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:21:16 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Airplanes Crashing
dream_title: Airplanes Crashing
dream_date: recurring since 9-11
dreamer_name: Velouria
dream_text: Ever since September 11, I've been having dreams where I am standing on the ground, looking into the sky. There are other people around me, but only I see the airplane in the air about to crash. Of course when it does crash, everyone becomes aware. The debris from the crashed plane always comes within inches of landing on me or hitting me.
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:21:43 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: terror
dream_title: terror
dream_date: 1/7/02
dreamer_name: anonymous
dream_text: I dreamt of elderly people running as if they are track racing in the Olympics but they appeared to be quiet fit for their age. However,their faces is what frightened me. They all have this agonizing horrible faces that certainly does not match with their body physique. The expression of their faces as if they have been tortured and are in a lot of pain, certainly not like athelts who are determined to win. I was not sure why they were doing that. These people were all white male and female. I woke up because of horrific sight of their faces and I don't know what that means.
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:22:05 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: FROM THE PAST
dream_title: FROM THE PAST
dream_date: 06 December 2000
dreamer_name: SWAYDE
dream_text: This dream was set in the past, it was during the Cowboy and Indian era. I was a little girl and also an orphan. I was staying with two other orphans a little girl and boy. We were looked after by an old man who had a cold heart. The place we lived was like a village setting, made up of five different crimson houses, which were situated next to a river. Each of us orphans were given a treasure chest by our late parents. We had never seen inside them as this was the old mans way. The old man was going out and he had promised me I could go through my treasure chest on his return. My box was a brown one with a green cowboy on a horse made out of some sort of stone that rocked back and forth in a slot on the lid of my chest. I never did get to look in my box.
dream_comments: Usually I have a understanding of a dream or I can relate it to things happening in my life. This dream I have no understanding of at all. I have been having past dreams lately definately in the Cowboy and Indian era. What does this mean.
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:22:54 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Death of a Friend
dream_title: Death of a Friend
dream_date: 1/7/02
dreamer_name: Katie T.
dream_text: I've had many dreams lately that seem to be premonitions of things that are going to happen, in which one of them did...last week.
Well, last night I had one that I have wondered about since I had it. So here it is: My friend Brian died in a head on collision about 3 months ago, we had met in driving classes and since he went to another school we would, for hours at a time, talk on the internet and sometimes the phone. I have to say that I didn't know him as well as I felt I did, but everyone knew I felt close to him because from the first time I met him I had talked about him to my friends and even my mom. We had plans to see each other when our football teams played each other and we did see each other and talked for a little while anyway. I got my license the week after that and we always told each other we would visit each other when we got our license, I wasn't allowed to drive much that first week so I never got the chance, He died that next Friday night. Well, in the end I regretted never getting to know him better and being able to hang out with him...Last night I had a dream that he was at my house with me, smiling with that smile he always had on his face, as we sat talking; It was a very short dream but it meant a lot to me. I could see his face, body and everything. My friend said this dream might mean that he is thinking about me, as I am of him and maybe that he is at my side in the spirit sence trying to tell me something. What do you think?
dream_comments: Please use my real name.
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:22:24 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Snakes
dream_title: Snakes
dream_date: January 7, 2002
dreamer_name: Ginger
dream_text: I have had this dream many times not alway exactly the same, but with the same outcome, I wake up screaming, really screaming. Last night it happened twice. Someone in my family usually my husband or son have a tarantula (sometimes more than one) and they know that I am afraid of them yet they keep at me to look or touch it. They chase me and then I cant get away and thats when I wake up screaming.
dream_comments: With it happening last night twice and I also wake up and scare my husband (he says I am trying to give him a heart attack)It happens a lot and is very upsetting.
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:23:28 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Heroic effort
dream_title: Heroic effort
dream_date: 001/09/02
dreamer_name: concretebrat
dream_text: My dream stars on a commercial construction site, I was working a a job somewhere, and towards the end of the day, a female assistant with the company, stoped in to ask for volunteers for a special assignment that day. I, and many others went on to this very large site, where the assignment was a cleanup, storage of materials type job. I saw myself, with blue jeans, work boots, and no shirt, in very good condition. In the progress of this job, the other men and i were carying long pieces of metal studs, sometimes going uphill, and sometimes going over many obsticals. Later, it started raining, and the conditions worstend, and it got muddy, we had a choice to move on or quit, and we chose to move on and at that time we all cheered with our fist raised in the air maching and chanting, or singing, I was marching with and working with a man of a differant race, and we became good friends. We were in a hurry, and the storage part of the job began to get taller, and unsafe, I made a comment about it, and then grabed a piece of stable wood, and said, I am getting off of this elavator, ut , I left my friend behind, and the pile came crashing down, and he ended up in the rubble, I could here him screaming, in agony and pain, and I remember looking down into a large hole at a pile of brken concrete. I felt terrible, because I should have helped him. Then a Blonde haired female appeared, and started talkining to me, and was very sweet on me, and She noticed a ring I had on with a cross on it, i also noticed that she had a religious symbol around her neck. She gave me an off colored pink glass ring, and told me it would give me strength to go on, and not quit. The dream gets a little blurry, but i remember this place we were going to, after the rain had quit, was still uphill, and bodies of water, almost heavanly were arround us. At the end of the dream, we finished the job, and I realized that a lot of people knew who i was, especially woman, i was dirty and sweaty, and I was leaving to go home, skipping , jumping, and very happy. I even jump into a public pond with inches of water, and rolled around with happiness. At the end I remember going to My harley Davidson, which had a bicycle strapped to the back, and waving goodbye to a pick up truck load full of workers.
dream_comments: I wish this dream had really happend, It made me sad that it was only a dream. I do want my dream and e-mail published. my e-mail is, concretebrat59@aol.com
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:23:52 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: melissa
dream_title: demon
dream_date: 01/07/02
dreamer_name: melissa
dream_text: I dream of my mom being on top of me and she was a demon and my other sister dream of my mom falling thru the living room floor and rose up from the floor as a demon
dream_comments: we would like to know the meaning of both of us dreaming of our mother being a demon
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:40:46 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Paralysed
dream_title: Paralysed
dream_date: off & on
dreamer_name: Abby
dream_text: Always having nightmares in which something bad is happening to me and I cannot do a thing about this as I am always paralysed,this seems so real that I actually think I am awake, I even try to scream or make some sort of sound but nothing comes out. When I do come out of my paralysed state I am exhausted and crying as I seem to have been paralysed for hours.
dream_comments: This has been going on since an early age I am now 41 years old.
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:34:21 +1100
From: "NIC JOHNSTON" <johnstonnic
Subject: Re: Snakes
>From: "Wilkerson, Richard" <rcwilk@dreamgate.com> >Reply-To: dream-flow@yahoogroups.com >To: dream-flow@yahoogroups.com,dreamstream@topica.com,DreamsRus@onelist.com >Subject: [dream-flow] Snakes >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:22:24 -080 gday >ginger! some think that spiders represent your mother,& snakes represent >fertility! OR it might be an inner fear you're suppressing, or it could >just be you hate spiders/snakes.then again it could be your husband's doing >something that freaks u out.if u tell yourself before drifting off,that if >u have these dreams,you'll stand ground & be brave ,it might give an >opportunity to figure it out.[easier said than done eh].good luck-& buy >your husband some ear muffs. > >
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"Wilkerson, Richard" <rcwilk@dreamgate.com> wrote: dream_title: Paralysed
dream_date: off & on
dreamer_name: Abby
dream_text: Always having nightmares in which something bad is happening to me and I cannot do a thing about this as I am always paralysed,this seems so real that I actually think I am awake, I even try to scream or make some sort of sound but nothing comes out. When I do come out of my paralysed state I am exhausted and crying as I seem to have been paralysed for hours.
dream_comments: This has been going on since an early age I am now 41 years old.
with love and light
Sudha Madhuri Devi
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There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Keep Smiling........ ;)
From: LOSTKRAFT
From: julie laroche <julie_prevost_2000
3. in the church
From: Anonymous
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:10:48 EST
From: LOSTKRAFT
Subject: Keep Smiling........ ;)
> SMILING is infectious, You catch it like the flu > When someone SMILED at me today, I started SMILING too > I passed around the corner and someone saw my grin > When he SMILED, I realized I'd passed it on to him. > I thought about that smile, then realized its worth, > A single SMILE just like mine could travel 'round the earth. > So if you feel a SMILE begin, don't leave it undetected. > > LET'S START AN EPIDEMIC QUICK AND GET THE WORLD INFECTED! > > KEEP THE SMILE GOING BY SENDING THIS > ON TO A FRIEND > Everyone needs a smile !!
[This message contained attachments]
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There are 2 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
2. Necessary Evil
From: Anonymous
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:28:19 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Necessary Evil
dream_title: Necessary Evil
dream_date: 10-31-01
dreamer_name: freefall
dream_text: I'm walking down Valmont going towards home, decide to run, and as I turn onto Airport Rd, it is extremely dark, I can barely see anything. Trusting my feet, I continue to run right along the curb with a weak light not too far ahead. Suddenly, someone on a bicycle rides by in the opposite direction and almost hits me. It is a man who starts to laugh and then taunt me, saying sarcastically 'hope I didn't scare you too much, what are you so afraid of'. I continue on not wanting a confrontation altho angry to a degree. As I pass the first entrance into Vista, the streetlights are on and I can see again. The man on the bike is following me and continues to taunt me. I stop and turn around, he is a young black man dressed in a marine uniform. I ask why he's harrassing me as he circles me on the bike and he says that he loves to pick on sissies. He starts riding back and forth with something like a baseball bat that he is swinging at me. He hits me a couple of times and I grow very angry. I will myself to rise into the air to be out of his reach and he continues with the verbal taunting. With uncanny strength, I reach down and lift up the bike with him still on it and ascend about twenty five feet up. I swing the bike around and around, end over end until he is thrown to the ground. Then I descend and start to use the bike like a weapon, thrashing him with it over and over, until he is beat unconscious. Next to the road, the ditch is full of clear, cold water and I push his still body into the water thinking it will at least revive him. But he sinks to the bottom and lays there face up. I stand there for awhile uncertain what to do, conflicted. Then I wade into the water and pick up his body, he is still alive but very weak and has transformed into a woman, her face swollen and bruised. I consider taking her up to the county jail and leaving her in the entry but know there will be sheriffs/cops everywhere, so I start to carry her in my arms towards home, uncertain as to what I will do when I get there.
dream_comments: classic encounter with Shadow
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[dream-flow] Digest Number 374
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There is 1 message in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Necessary Evil
From: Heratheta
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:48:14 EST
From: Heratheta
Subject: Re: Necessary Evil
see www.dreamgate.com./dream/dubetz/
[This message contained attachments]
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[dream-flow] Digest Number 375
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There are 7 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Necessary Evil
From: julie laroche <julie_prevost_2000
2. dreams of finn
From: Anonymous
3. Lion Watching
From: Anonymous
4. Neverending rooms
From: Anonymous
5. kachina
From: Anonymous
6. Explosion
From: Anonymous
7. sexyjay
From: Anonymous
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:01:29 +0100 (CET)
From: julie laroche <julie_prevost_2000
Subject: Re: Necessary Evil
--- "RE: a écrit : > dream_title: Necessary Evil > > dream_date: 10-31-01 > > dreamer_name: freefall > > dream_text: I'm walking down Valmont going towards home, decide to run, and ..../ rest cut , see original post/
Dear Richard, (I think Julie is referring to the dreamer, "freefall" and should read "Dear freefall")
first question: can you say you're a guy who's open to his feminine side? What are you afraid of? Are you aware of your great strength? That man had to get you angry for you to use it..right? what is your feeling about the marines...or any army for that matter.... This dream carried clear symbols....bicycle, darkness, road to aurport....the man turned into a woman....how is the woman inside you doing? Have you been taking care of her? I'm very curious to hear your interpretation of your dream and if you have time, please answer my questions. Looking forward to hearing from you...
Julie xx
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There is 1 message in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. experimental methods
From: stan kulikowski ii <stankuli@etherways.com>
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:34:45 -0800
From: stan kulikowski ii <stankuli@etherways.com>
Subject: experimental methods
Subject: dream: experimental methods
DATE : 21 jan 2002 10:33 DREAM : experimental methods
=(yesterday was sunday and mother and i watched _dr who_ and ate ice cream as is our custom. my sleep has settled back down into its usual pattern finally, so i sat up working late night. i have started typing in the pages of what my mother called 'her book'. it is more like a diary of her thoughts during the three years after the death of my father in 1994. i still have not consumed any caffeine or alcohol for the last three weeks, but i saw no direct change or improvement in my sleep disturbance due to any chemical dependence. i have decided to continue this abstinence for another week just to show myself that it is not that hard for me to have drug free holidays once in a while, but it is just makes life a little flat avoiding these simple pleasures. i get few enough natural pleasures, so i see no reason to make life any duller than necessary. i got to sleep around 04:00. )=
this student biology lab at wright state university is pretty much as i expected it to be, cluttered with equipment and tanks of various specimens scattered about like a child's playroom. i am holding the pages of the examination that i have requested. i wanted to see if my skills at biological reasoning have decayed over the years, so i am here to attempt this test.
thinking about the last question on nutritional value of various sausages, i am cutting slices off of five different salami brands and carefully trimming each slice until they all weigh the same. on a hot plate i have several crusts of bread onto which i carefully place each salami slice in a groove i have cut at one end of the crust. as the salami heats up, i expect its grease to melt and the bread to serve as a matrix for its oil to disperse. by this method i should be able to assess the relative fat content in the different brands of salami.
while i am waiting for the experiment to heat up, i hear someone enter the room. it is my former biology teacher, ira fritz. he looks much older than i remember from thirty years ago, but i am glad to see him. "what's this?" he asks, pointing to the apparatus which is starting to sizzle.
"i am trying to use bread as a medium for an oil chromatography separation." i explain. "you would probably recommend a starch gel electrophoresis, i suppose."
he nods, of course he would. i am in no real hurry to complete this test which is expected to take weeks of preparation, but it just seemed to me that i could make do with all the things available in this room right off.
"this won't work." he smiles at me, pointing to another apparatus i have put together. inside there is a fat toad sitting on a bed of dark dry moss. in front of the amphibian is a row of dead, plump gray larvae. i was thinking i could assay its prey preferences from observing which larvae it ate first. "that toad needs space enough to hunt live prey. it won't eat confined dead food." i nod in acceptance. it was not a very natural choice environment, but really large tanks were not available here.
ira is called out of the room and a younger faculty steps in. i recognize him as the current provost of the university but he is someone i do not know. "you know, doctor fritz is retired now." he tell me. "he is emeritus. we have younger faculty to supervise your test results."
i shake my head and say "i would prefer doctor fritz. he was my main coordinator when i took my degree here, and i believe i have a right to choose the same faculty that knew my training curriculum." he nods in agreement, of course i am right here.
i hear some students talking down the hall and go over to the next room where two of them are gathered around a lab bench. they have dozens of little paper cups, each containing a white creamy liquid to which they are doing an acidity test with strips of litmus papers. their results are not pleasing them. i ask what they are doing.
"we are measuring the pH of these semen samples, but they are way too alkaline." they seem puzzled, so i look over their collection process.
it seems that an XXX theatrical group has set up a performance on the porch just outside this lab. there is a young man wearing a khaki uniform like a fascist soldier. he is bound and blindfolded and hung up by one of his feet with a rope. beside where he is hanging there is a small hole in the floor. another young man passing by sees the situation, and comes over smiling. he unzips the fly on his pants, pulls out his dick and flops down on his belly so he sticks his dick in the hole. he jerks around for maybe five seconds, then gets up. apparently someone unseen under the porch has given him a blow job. at least that is what is supposed to be going on for collecting the semen samples which the students inside are analyzing.
i go back into lab room and the students look at expectantly. i shake my head. "i do not trust hollywood style theater producers to give you the real thing when a simulation is possible." i pick up one of the paper cup samples. it looks like mayonnaise. "the extraction process is too quick for this many samples. have you examined this under a microscope to see if there are sperm in the samples?" one of the students pulls a microscope out of one of the drawers of a nearby bench and gets a glass slide.
remembering my own bread salami preparation in the other lab, i hurry back but find i am too late. the hot plate was too hot and the grease has completely saturated the bread. i needed to catch process before all the slices completed their oil flows to compare their relative grease loads. i turn off the hot plate, disappointed that my first attempt failed because i got distracted next door.
an older lady enters the lab and gestures for me to follow her. i recognize her as doctor fritz's wife, even though i do not think i ever met her. "come with me." she says.
"what do you do?" i ask her as we go down the hall.
"i work in early childhood development." she tells me without much embellishment.
"oh, i did my doctoral work in a related area." i say, trying to make friendly conversation. "i studied first language acquisition. did collections of an infant speaking in two word combinations. i was mostly interested in the mathematics it took to analyze those syntactic combinations." she does not seem to be interested.
we go down some stairs into a wine cellar. she takes out two small shot glasses and hands me one with a large wet ice cube. obviously the ice cube is too large to fit in the shot glass, so i set it on the rim. apparently we are just chilling the glass while she gets some exotic liquor.
=( it about 10:15 when i awake. ira fritz was my biology teacher for my undergraduate degree at wright state, but everyone else in this dream is unknown to me in waking life. my doctoral thesis was just as described, and i did starch gel electrophoresis in doctor fritz's lab but all the other procedures described in this dream are novel. i now notice that the young man hanging in the XXX staged performance is an archetype image of the tarot trump, the hanged man, but that did not occur to me at the time. all of these various procedures concern biologic processes, but they are so gerryrigged as to be ineffective. a few days ago i did describe to a biologist friend a kitchen experiment i did last year with a mosquito control agent for my frog pond. i concluded that the agent acted like a chemical toxin rather than a bacterial vector like the label suggests. malcolm seemed impressed and said i was right. the control agent is indeed a protein extracted from the bacterial spore, not the actual bacteria itself. he said i should have been a biologist and i reminded him that my undergraduate degree was in that field. i know that undergrads in biology are suited only for cleaning glassware. )=
stankuli@etherways.com
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[dream-flow] Digest Number 377
____________________________________________________________
There is 1 message in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: experimental methods
From: Heratheta
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:57:22 EST
From: Heratheta
Subject: Re: experimental methods
see www.dreamgate.com./dream/dubetz/
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[dream-flow] Digest Number 378
____________________________________________________________
There are 7 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. october 22nd
From: Anonymous
2. Flying Suicide
From: Anonymous
3. Mr. Right
From: Anonymous
4. motorways, Arabia, peace, missiles and basketball.
From: Anonymous
5. JAY-GO
From: Anonymous
6. am i gay
From: Anonymous
7. Hi I am a new member
From: South Wind's <southwindsarabians
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:57:36 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: october 22nd
dream_title: september 11th
dream_date: october 22nd
dreamer_name: tigger
dream_text: I was in a local swimming pool doing swimming lessons and than I looked up in the air and a plane was crashing down (not at me) but somewhere else. Than I heard this big crash and saw a lot of smoke and when I woke up I had this scary feeling not that I was going to die in a plane crash but I was weary all the whole week.
dream_comments: I felt strange and wanted to talk with someone quick and fast andone I could tell I told.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:58:45 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Flying Suicide
dream_title: Flying Suicide
dream_date: 1.19.02
dreamer_name: Chili
dream_text: I was in Chicago by the Lake on Navy Peir with an older lady whom I don't know. We were talking to a pilot of an overhead plane on the phone when all of a sudden he said "I can't take it anymore. I have to end it all!" Then he nosedives into the lake. The next day we bring the plane up and noone-not even the pilot- is in there. Just a little boy. Then I wake up.
dream_comments: Do you think you can tell me what this means? I've had dreams like this that later ocme true. I need to know if it means anything because I'm supposed to be flying soon.
____________________________________________________________
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:59:12 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: Mr. Right
dream_title: Mr. Right
dream_date: 1/22/02
dreamer_name: anonymous
dream_text: I had a dream that I was with this one guy. He was so sweet, he treated like a lady, he was there for me.We were in his house packing and he told me that he really care about me and that he really wanted to be with me. When I woke up I felt as if I was going to meet this guy someday. It felt so real I wonder what do this mean...........
dream_comments: It wasn weird because the only person I see in my future is my ex.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:59:52 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: motorways, Arabia, peace, missiles and basketball.
dream_title: motorways, Arabia, peace, missiles and basketball.
dream_date: 22.1.02
dreamer_name: erasmus
dream_text: i found myself running along an extremely busy road with about four lanes, i had a sensation of not knowing where i was, traffic was coming up behind me, and passing me on my right hand side.i remember feeling vulnerable to the cars and that i shouldnt be there, running down a freeway, I looked to the right, and saw a peculiar wagon unloading a missile onto a detonator and the missile shot into the sky, the missile had arabic style writing on it. for some reason, in my dream i saw this as a normality and wasnt scared or suprised, i carried on jogging along this freeway when i saw a junction off it to my left and a stone wall, like the ones used by trditional english farmers, and behind the wall was an idyllic (although not beautiful in a postcard sort of way, everyone seemed to be very happy, and it seemed to eminate with positivity). i felt almost an epiphany, ie what am i doing on this motorway when there is that beautiful beach, so i lept over the wall. on the sand i saw a mother and young child, i said hello, even though they were strangers and they replied warmly, only in a middle eastern language - i remember the little girl said 'salom' or something. i was then met by a real life friend/acquaintance, who told me he was so glad i could make it, and had wanted me to come. i continued down the beach and was met by an assortment of my old school friends who met me very warmly, and seemed extremely happy to see me and eachother. my real best friend seemed over the moon that everyone was back together but for some reason was being rather evasive towards me. he then suggested we play basketball, to which everyone seemed delighted, including myself, who has no interest in basketball at all, neither do my friends. my last memory of the dream was looking up at a basketball pole and net which seemed rather large and over facing, but when i woke up i felt a great feeling of peace and togetherness with all my friends, a lot of whom i no longer speak to because of different universities etc.
dream_comments: i decided to share this dream, because it conjured up very intense feelings, both whilst i was asleep and in the 5 minute bleary eyed waking up period. i have a feeling that it has something to do with the notion of wanting to be somewhere else, and feeling that life is rushing past me- im working somewhere i hate for the cash so i can go travelling in the summer before uni.
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:00:31 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: JAY-GO
dream_title: freedom
dream_date: 17:01:02
dreamer_name: JAY-GO
dream_text: dreamt of a community in which I was a stranger - a community in which everyone was free and equal. . .only when wishing to leave - felt trapped.
dream_comments: The dream suggests the liberation that can only come about through independant choice making and believing in your own processes. . and equally so the repression that can be laid upon us by society, repressing our unconcious desires and creating normality out of many wierd and wonderful experiences. I escaped the dream and only then did I feel truly free...
____________________________________________________________
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:02:45 -0800
From: Anonymous
Subject: am i gay
dream_title: am i gay, I meant to put it on the other one but i put I'm a gay
dream_date: 1/14/02
dreamer_name: Goku
dream_text: i'm sitting in someones living room in a chair. then 2 naked men walk in and sit on the couch opposite of me. Then they start to have sex on the couch. Then when my alarm went off i woke up but they has sex for like and 1 of my dream. please help, i have a girl friend.
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:58:53 -0800 (PST)
From: South Wind's <southwindsarabians
Subject: Hi I am a new member
Hi My name is Rhonda I am a new member of this goup . I am wanting information on what this group is about I have been having some really bizzarr deams & they are not nightmares cause I am not afraid But I would like to know what they mean am I in the right group???
May you ride a Happy Arabian Rhonda
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