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Electric Dreams Volume 08 Issue 11
Special Issue: Online Dream Sharing
E.l.e.c.t.r.i.c D.r.e.a.m.s
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E.l.e.c.t.r.i.c D.r.e.a.m.s
Volume #8 Issue #11
November 2001
ISSN# 1089 4284
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http://www.dreamgate.com/electric-dreams
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Download a Cover for this Issue!
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-covers
by Elizabeth Diaz
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C O N T E N T S
++ Editor's Notes
++ Notes to the Editor/Dream Airing
++ Column: An Excerpt From the Lucid Dream Exchange
Lucid Dreaming and the Deceased
by Robert Waggoner
++ Article: Reflections on Online Dream Groups
John W. Herbert, Ph. D.
++ Article: Three Asynchronous Dream Sharing Communities:
Contrasts and Comparisons
By Richard Wilkerson
++ Transcript: Online Dream Group Transcript: "Black Hole"
By Phyllis Howing and Richard Wilkerson
++ Article: Developing Your Own Dreamwork Ethics
By Richard Wilkerson (+Ed Kellogg)
++ Article: The DreamGate Course on the History of Dreams
By Richard Wilkerson
G L O B A L * D R E A M I N G * N E W S - Peggy Coats
NEWS * RESEARCH & REQUESTS * WEBSITE & ONLINE UPDATES *
* DREAM CALENDAR for October and November 2001 * ASD News
Update!
D R E A M S S E C T I O N :
This issue includes volume # 285 - #309
D E A D L I N E :
November 14, deadline for DECEMBER submissions
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Send Dreams and Comments on Dreams to:
Richard Wilkerson <rcwilk@dreamgate.com>
Send Dreaming News and Calendar Events to:
Peggy Coats <pcoats@dreamtree.com>
Send Articles and Subscription concerns to:
Richard Wilkerson: <rcwilk@dreamgate.com>
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Editor's Notes
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Welcome to the November issue of Electric Dreams, your
portal to dreams and dreaming online.
This month we are focusing on dream sharing online. The core
of this issue will be a transcript from a real dream group.
Usually these groups are closed and the information shared
very confidential. But once each year we ask the group's
permission to anonymously re-print the transcripts. The
moderator's instructions, the dream, the questions,
comments, and the replies are all included. This will allow
others to better understand the process and perhaps join the
group or start their own.
Phillis Howing has provided this transcript "Black Hole"
from a recent Electric Dreams/DreamGate DreamWheel and we
are in debt to her and the group for opening up this special
session.
We recognize that there are many different ways to share
dreams online besides the venues we offer, and the Electric
Dreams e-zine has done its utmost to promote a wide variety
of dream sharing online. From annual dream swarms, to local
meetings to websites, to conferences and other events, the
EDreams e-zine has provided almost a decade of support and
networking for the online dream movement. There isn't
enough room to compare all these styles of dream sharing,
but in this issue I did want to compare a couple of groups
similar to the DreamWheel. I have included a comparison of
three dream sharing groups online, the DreamWheel,
DreamChatters and DreamShare. Please see "Three
Asynchronous Dream Sharing Communities: Contrasts and
Comparisons"
Also, the first great pioneer of online dreamwork, John W.
Herbert, Ph. D., offers us an article this month originally
published in a special issue of the ASD Dream Time magazine
on the variety of venues that can be used for dream sharing
in his talk "Reflections on Online Dream Groups."
How members and moderators conduct themselves in a group is
always an issue as dream material can be very personal and
sensitive. If you are planning to run a dreamgroup, we
highly recommend reading about the issue of ethics in
sharing dreams in "Developing Your Own Dreamwork Ethics."
I have included in this article the ethics template
developed for ASD by Ed Kellogg that you can use to quickly
develop your own ethics statement.
Dreamwork can be deepened and supported by theoretical,
conceptual and historical study. I originally developed the
DreamGate History of Dreams course as a support for the
DreamWheel, but the general breadth of the course works well
with individual work as well. In the article "The DreamGate
Course on the History of Dreams" I explore how this all
works and more about using courses to support the practice
of dreamwork.
Our news directory, Peggy Coats, from dreamtree.com, has
gathered dreaming news from around the world, events,
conferences, and seminars. If you have news items about
dreams and dreaming for Peggy, send them to her at
pcoats@dreamtree.com
Our dream-flow Dreams this month come from all around the
Net and have been organized by the software developed by
Harry Bosma. Be sure to look through the dreams and see what
on the mind and soul of dreamers in Cyberspace.
The Annual Dream Swarm will be rather informal this year.
Usually we get together and swarm around the Net, visiting
old dream friends and sites, and making new connections and
dream friends. I hope to see you all online and we can meet
for the swarm at the ASD Bulletin Board. However, the focus
this year will be in updating the Electric Dreams Resource
Page on dreams and dreaming. Stop by, see what's missing and
send that in to me!
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/resources/
If you would like a cover for your Electric Dreams, the
cover is at http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-covers
Many thanks to Elizabeth Diaz for this cover!
|Read more about Liz in the Dream Airing
Hey, the Call for Papers Deadline for the 2002 ASD
Conference in Boston is December 31, 2001, so be sure to
stop by, download and fill out the form to get your
presentation in on time. Hope to see you there!
http://www.asdreams.org/2002
NEXT MONTH: Robert Moss and Dream Pilots, Jeremy Taylor on
Terror in Dreams, Stan Kulikowski ii on temporal features of
a dream log, and more dreams related to the S11 tragedy.
-Richard Wilkerson
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Dream Airing:
News, Notes and Events
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Cover Art for Electric Dreams, November 2001
http://dreamgate.hypermart.net/ed-covers/ed8-11cov.jpg
"The inspiration for the cover graphic came from a dream
fragment. In the dream I added a butterfly image to a
website I was working on in real life at the time. I had
placed it on a black background and at the angel you see on
the cover. The colors of the butterfly are virtually the
same as in the dream." EDiaz
Elizabeth Diaz is a member of the Association for the Study
of Dreams and a web designer. She can be reached at
EDreamDesigns@aol.com for graphic design work or at
http://www.e-dreamdesigns.com/
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Survey online: Digital Objects
Are you having dreams about computers?
There is a collision that is taking place between technology
and humanity. This survey is interested in how the analog
human dreams about digital objects, about robots, cyborgs,
androids and other beings and scenarios that look at the
human-machine interface. Be sure to drop off your computer
dreams and fill out the survey at:
http://www.dreamgate.com/computers/
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Mutual Dream Healing Circle
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Dreamshare members ( a moderated, egalitarian on-line group
for exploring the life and meanings of the dream-world) have
initiated a dream-healing concentration, to be held in the
consciousness of participants on the night of the 21st. of
each month. Before going to sleep at night, please hold the
thought, prayer, or concentration in your consciousness of
bringing healing energy to those who have so requested. you
may use whatever practices are important or helpful to you
in effecting this healing state.
There will be a list of names or circumstances of those who
have specifically requested to be included in our thoughts
and prayers. Please observe the general decorum of distance
healing work in many traditions and do not add anyone to the
list without his or her express approval...you may wish to
hold in your consciousness someone else you know who is in
need of healing energy and send them that energy, but please
do respect everyone's rights to self-determination and
privacy. my feeling is that someone who has asked you for
thoughts and prayers can be included here as well.
Feel free to contact Judith, c/o
<dreamshare-owner@yahoogroups.com> if you would like to be
included in the list or for more information.
On awakening, you may wish to pay special attention to
recalling your dreams and, if you wish, you may submit them
to <Dreamshare-owner@yahoogroups.com> for inclusion on our
list.
Anyway, that's about it for now. Take care, Judith
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An Excerpt From the Lucid Dream Exchange
By Lucy Gillis
The following is adapted from a presentation given by Robert
Waggoner at the Association for the Study of Dreams
conference held in July 2001.
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Lucid Dreaming and the Deceased
by Robert Waggoner
Over the years I have noticed that when experienced lucid
dreamers are asked, "How has lucid dreaming changed you or
your view of the world?", many of them respond by saying
that lucid dreaming has completely reduced their fear of
death. In fact, some lucid dreamers respond that they have
virtually no fear of death.
At first glance, the connection between lucid dreaming and
losing the fear of death seems to be a very tenuous one at
best. But it is a connection that comes via deep experience,
as lucid dreamers discover that their conscious awareness,
curiosity, personal focus and intent can exist in a
wonderfully alive and active mental form and a fascinating
mental environment of deep sensation and meaning.
As lucid dreamers uncover deeper and broader lucid
experiences, they often question that "IF" one can exist in
a mental form in a mental environment, then upon Death (the
physical event) when one obviously loses any physical
function, is it possible that they would adopt something
like this mental form which exists in the mental
environment? And would their identity continue in this
afterdeath state, similar to its existence as a mental form
existing in a mental environment of lucid dreaming?
Tibetan Buddhists have asserted a clear connection between
lucid dreaming and the afterdeath experience. In his book,
The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep,Tenzin Wangyal
Rinpoche states repeatedly that "All the dream and sleep
practices are, on one level, preparations for death."
(p.181). Similarly, a close reading of The Tibetan Book of
Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche in Chapter 18 "The Bardo
of Becoming" with a subsection entitled "The Mental Body"
shows significant parallels between the state of lucid
dreaming and a lucid dreamer's abilities and that of a
deceased person in the state of the bardo.
But even if one concurs that there are striking similarities
between lucid dreaming and the bardo of becoming, how could
one investigate the possible linkage between lucid dreaming
and the after death experience further and see if there is a
deeper basis than historical anecdotes, religious
traditions, and correlation of experience? The answer is,
when lucid, set up an experiment and try to obtain
information from the deceased. This is what I did in lucid
dream about 18 months after my father's passing.
April 20-21, 1999 "Talking To My Dead Father" -- Lucid
Dream.
"The dream scene is basically like a dark stage. Suddenly I
see a golden wood ladder right in front of me, hanging in
the air. I can see the polished wood gleaming and the thin
grain lines on the wood. Suddenly I see a foot and then
another and look up -- I recognize my dad is coming down the
gold ladder. I realize, "Hey, Dad is dead" and think, "well,
then this is a dream". In my lucidity, I am a bit surprised
by his bad haircut, and grin at the absurdity of not getting
a good haircut in the afterdeath state! He looks about 60
years old and very healthy, even though he passed on at 82.
I think that since he's dead, I'll ask him some questions
about death. He tells me that he is doing fine. Then I ask,
"Dad. Tell me, when do you think Mrs. X will die?" He looks
at me and says "Oh, she will probably die in 2 to 6 years."
(In my dream journal, I have written 'heart' but I can't
recall if he said she'd have heart problems. To the best of
my knowledge she has never been bothered by heart problems.)
I ask him some other questions. He says something like the
coming months may be challenging for our family, but that we
can make it. I get the feeling that August will be the most
difficult. He also tells me firmly that I need to be more
compassionate and understanding of one family member (as if
to say that I know better). He has some other advice but
upon awakening, this is all I recall. I felt very pleased to
see him."
As a postscript, the information provided about Mrs. X was
very interesting. Almost two years later, Mrs. X went to the
hospital in March 2001, complaining of shortness of breath.
It took the doctors a few weeks to diagnose the problem, and
they told her she had a rare, heart problem, in which the
muscles of the heart begin to thicken and can't keep up with
the supply of blood, so the blood backs up into the lungs
and creates a shortness of breath. They said her veins and
arteries were very healthy, and prescribed medication to
help her heart. Prior to this, she had never evidenced heart
problems.
Similarly, within a month or two of this dream, my sister's
house in Kansas was barely missed by a tornado that
destroyed nearby houses and severely damaged her roof. And I
took seriously his admonition to be more compassionate and
understanding to a family member, resulting in a much
healthier relationship.
My point in writing this is to express the solace and warmth
that I felt from my dreams, as they prepared me for my
father's death, and then helped me afterwards in the
realization that some part of his spirit carries on and
continues to care for our family. For me, lucidity is a
wonderful platform from which to experiment on the deep
questions of life. Lucidity has the ability to show us that
we can happily exist in a mental form in a mental
environment and find meaning, joy and wonder in the lucid
state. If upon our physical death and the loss of our
physical functions, we adopt this mental form of our lucid
dreams, then what? Though I may grieve that the deceased and
I are no longer sharing the same environment, I can not
grieve that one's consciousness has been forever
extinguished. The light of that consciousness lingers on,
and I feel that we can meet it in the beautiful and awesome
world of dreams.
************************************************************
The Lucid Dream Exchange is a quarterly issue featuring
lucid dreams and lucid dream related articles, poetry, and
book reviews submitted by readers. To subscribe to The Lucid
Dream Exchange, send a blank email to:
TheLucidDreamExchange-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Or join through the Yahoo Groups website at
http://groups.yahoo.com/
The LDE can be found under Sciences>Social
Sciences>Psychology>Sleep and Dreams.
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Reflections on Online Dream Groups
John W. Herbert, Ph. D.
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The advent of global communication via the Internet has
brought many changes to the extent to which information can
be shared, and it has also changed our sense of community.
We are no longer bound by geographical constraints but are
linked by communal interests. Electronic communication
provides us with many ways with which to share these various
interests, and dreamwork has been one area that has proven
to be very suitable for this emerging medium.
I would like to share my personal experiences in conducting
online dream groups. I was a student at Saybrook Graduate
School in San Francisco, in a program leading to a Ph.D. in
Psychology. My interest has been focused on studying the
viability of conducting "Group Dreamwork Utilizing Computer
Mediated Communication." The dreamwork was based on the "If
it were my dream" approach.
Initially, a face-to-face group's sharing was recorded at a
Saybrook conference, where a breakfast group met for
dreamwork. Posting an inquiry to the alt.dreams news group,
I recruited members who were willing to join in a pilot
study. I sent them the dreamer's dream and asked them to
pretend it were their own and share thoughts and feelings.
I tallied the group members' responses to the dreamer and
the dreamer's comments back to the group, subjecting them to
a chi-square analysis. The results confirmed that the
communication of the e-mail computer mediated group produced
more meaningful comments useful to the dreamer than did the
face-to-face group.
None of the computer group were experienced dreamworkers. To
me, this was especially significant, because in many cases,
both groups used similar language, but the volume of
responses for the computer group was much larger. The
results have to be viewed with caution, because I think one
major advantage of the electronic communication is time. A
face-to-face group is always limited by time, but
communication by e-mail allows members a much longer period
to reflect before responding.
Assured that dreamwork was possible by e-mail, I designed
ways of working with dreams online, and studied electronic
group dreamwork using bulletin boards, e-mail, public
forums, and chat rooms, both public and private.
Categories Of Electronic Dreamwork
There are four broad categories for electronic group
dreamwork:
<POSTINGS> PUBLIC --------- PRIVATE
DELAYED :: Bulletin Board E-Mail/Dream Wheel
REAL TIME :: Auditorium/Chat Chat Room
Postings
After the protocol for online group dreamwork was developed,
all postings followed the general pattern of a call for the
formation of a dream group, a call for a dream to be shared,
and the establishment of an agreed-upon schedule for the
various segments of the dreamwork: posting the dream,
questions and answers needed to clarify dream content, group
members' sharing their "if it were my dream" comments, the
dreamer's feedback (voluntary) to the group, and additional
discussion if the dreamer wished to have it.
Bulletin Board Format: Delayed Public
The first groups that were formed were in response to
postings on commercial services such as GEnie, Delphi,
Prodigy, the WELL, and Compuserve. The majority of the
dreamwork, however, was conducted on America Online, and
particularly on Seniornet, a subset of AOL.
A major advantage of bulletin boards is that they can
provide an educational function. One can set up sub-
classifications for different interests, the topics usually
remain visible for a some period of time, and those new to
group dreamwork can read sequential postings and get an idea
of how the process works. Lurkers can learn about the
protocol.
Disadvantages of a bulletin board are that there is no
privacy, and one has little control over what is posted.
Periodic reminders were necessary about NOT using "I think
your dream means" attitudes. In addition, the postings are
subject to the software whims of the host. On several
occasions the AOL software swept away postings on the
bulletin board, and special efforts were required to
reestablish the topics.
All the dreamwork followed an "If it were my dream"
approach, and it always took a little more work to guide
newcomers through the steps. The initial groups took a few
sessions to become comfortable with the process. The task of
a moderator was similar in both groups, except that it was
always a delicate task to get new participants to be aware
of the importance of using the "If it were my dream"
approach.
It was necessary to provide anonymity and to establish
timetables. Organizational effort was required. The groups
needed about 12 days for the whole process, generally
allowing 2 - 3 days for most segments. Although all the
dreamers were comfortable with the provided anonymity,
occasionally sensitive issues required special handling. At
such times, I acted as a go-between for the dreamer and re-
posting his or her remarks under a pseudonym.
Anonymity did not matter for most members, but was of
concern to members who frequently posted to other AOL topic
areas. Apparently their personal situations were
occasionally known to members in the other topic areas
(where they posted under their regular logon names), and
they therefore preferred anonymity for the dreamwork. AOL's
members could choose up to 5 screen names, and if a name was
"unprofiled," there was no published information associated
with it.
Within the groups, however, group members shared their real
or "regular logon" names by private e-mail communication.
Group members were therefore known to each other. Dreamer
feedback information was also often shared by e-mail.
E-Mail Format: Delayed Private
It was a natural transition to move from bulletin boards to
e-mail. Most members preferred providing feedback by e-mail,
so groups were run using e-mail only. With e-mail,
participation was expanded to more than just AOL's
membership. It was at this stage that many ASD members
joined the process.
There are two methods for a moderator to process e-mail
communications. Individual group members can send posts
directly to the moderator, who then assembles them and makes
one collected post to all group members. A lot of work is
required to act as the clearing house for e-mail postings,
but the advantage is that a moderator can make suggestions
to newcomers concerning revisions to phrasing before their
final posting is made. This method is very supportive of new
members. The usual method is for each member to send
multiple copies to all other group members
E-Mail offers privacy. Anonymity was never a problem with e-
mail. And obviously, anyone with an e-mail address can
participate in a group.
Dream Wheels: Delayed Private
Dream Wheels are suitable for group dreamwork and utilize a
Majordomo or Listserv type program where any posting to the
listserv address is seen by all members. Usually a request
to join a group is sent to a moderator who subscribes the
member. Currently Richard Wilkerson's website at
dreamgate.com hosts Dream Wheels.
Jeremy Taylor's Dream Show
America Online contracted with Jeremy Taylor to host a Dream
Show. His Dream Show area contained open bulletin boards,
topics of general information and a link to the hour-long
live dream show, which, for the majority of the show's life
(over a year and 3/4), was held in an auditorium, but it was
later shifted to chat rooms. The real time dreamwork was
entirely different. Jeremy, as the host, was always very
busy.
Auditoriums: Real Time Public
As members joined the auditorium, they were placed in
multiple electronic rows of approximately 10 members per
row, and they could chat amongst themselves, that is,
individual row postings were seen by all members in that
particular row. Occasionally rows could discuss dreams
submitted to the row by one of the row members.
Postings from the stage were seen by all members of all
rows. Any member of the audience could communicate with the
host by sending a question or comment to that host. The host
had to decide which questions or comments were to be made
visible to all the audience, and those were relayed for all
to see.
The number of auditorium visitors varied substantially
depending upon whether AOL had proper signposts directing
members to the location. Initially, daily participation
varied between 100 to 120, but when the signposts were
missing, membership would drop. The location of the
auditorium was changed and later the format was moved to a
chat room.
Chat Room: Real Time Public
A chat room is different than an auditorium. Any posting by
any member is seen by all, and the communication in a chat
room depends upon the agreed upon protocol of that room. A
formal protocol provides an orderly environment but requires
that permission be obtained before posting a question or
comment.
Formal protocol, however, would have undoubtedly restrained
the spontaneity of questions and comments, so a "semi-
formal" protocol was chosen. At first, participants were so
busy greeting each other that it was difficult to get down
to work. Once the members became familiar with the protocol,
it was easier, but it still took a lot of work for both the
host and co-hosts to maintain order.
The second chat room was a very difficult location to work
with, because it was scheduled for a specific hour between
two other topics. One therefore had to contend with left-
over members from the first show, and early arrivals for the
second show. In spite of the administrative difficulties,
excellent dream sharing still took place.
Chat Room: Real Time Private
A wonderful example of successful continuing online group
dreamwork sprang from Jeremy Taylor's Dream Show.
Immediately after the show was terminated, 16 participants
decided to continue dreamwork and created a private room on
AOL where real-time meetings were held once a week. That
group is still in existence now, although the numbers have
dropped, core members still meet twice a week, on Wednesday
mornings for one hour and Sunday evenings for two hours. As
one might expect, they are all remarkably good dreamworkers.
Websites
There are also many dream related websites available for
inspection and/or participation using a browser such as
Netscape's Navigator or Microsoft's Explorer. There is a
wide variety in the quality of postgings on different
websites. Links to many of these sites can be found at
Richard Wilkerson's <www.Dreamgate.com>.
THE FUTURE: ISP COMMUNITIES
I believe that the emerging ISP communities such as Yahoo's
Clubs, Geocities' Neighborhoods, or Sixdegrees Channels will
be able to provide excellent operating locations for group
dreamwork. Accessible to anyone with a browser, communities
can be set up to provide either delayed public areas for
posting general information, or private delayed BB areas or
real-time meeting areas, similar to AOL's private chat
rooms.
One can conduct or join in remarkable dreamwork online. It
takes work, but I'd encourage all to support, participate
in, or create areas for responsible dreamwork.
John W. Herbert, Ph. D.
jherbert@alum.mit.edu
Reprinted with permission from ASD Dream Time 17(3) (2000).
Reflections on Online Dream Groups. John W. Herbert, Ph. D.
Also, see John Herbert's Dissertation on this subject:
http://www.dreamgate.com/herbert
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Three Asynchronous Dream Sharing Communities
Contrasts and Comparisons
Richard Wilkerson
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In this article I would like to give newcomers to dreaming
online a quick comparison of three great e-mail listserv
dreamgroups online, the Electric Dreams DreamWheel,
DreamShare, and DreamChatters.
DreamChatters
dreamchatters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dreamchatters
DreamChatters, hosted by Victoria Quinton, offers a list
that is probably the most recognizable to those who
participate in discussion groups online. There is an open
format where any topic on dreams and dreaming can be
discussed, from how to obtain lucidity in dreaming to
questions about the specific meaning of a personal dream.
Victoria is a great host as she is connected with many of
the dream organizations online, including the Association
for the Study of Dreams, Electric Dreams, DreamGate,
DreamTree and others. Victoria brings in the big dreamers,
famous dream personages from around the world. Its not
unusual to hear from Robert Van de Castle, Henry Reed, Rita
Dwyer, Alan Siegel, and many others. Victoria also brings in
topics for discussion from the most current issues in the
dream field. There is also a feeling of welcome and
friendliness for people that are new to dreams and dreaming.
Dreamwork Notes: One can work on a dream at several levels
on this list. Some people send in dreams and simply ask
others to comment. Sometimes people ask how to interpret a
dream and get advice from the group. Other times there is a
focus on a particular symbol or image. The list uses the
"Village Elders" approach to ethics. There isn't any direct
moderation on the list, but when someone is being
inappropriate the older members of the list will chime in
with their opinions and suggestions. What I really like is
that I can talk about things that other dreamer's recognize
and understand in the world of dreams, like flying in
dreams, or special terrors, or lucidity or psi dreaming.
That is, like the BADG (2) group offline, DreamChatters
online is like a Dream Club where people who know a lot
about dreaming mingle with those who don't, but they all
talks dreams.
Since the group ethos allows for just about any process,
one may feel a bit lonely at time when no one responds to a
dream, or overwhelmed with participants come out of the
woodwork and say pretty bizarre things about your dream.
Still, the over-all effect creates social bonding among the
participants and the list is a major contribution to the
global dreamwork movement.
--------
The DreamWheel
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dreamwheel
dreamwheel-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
dreamwheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
The DreamWheel is a highly moderated dream group that
follows a very specific process. (See a full transcript of a
group in this issue of Electric Dreams) The group members
are asked to send dreams into the moderator who picks one
and has the group focus on this one dream(randomly at times,
in order after the initial group has started). Members must
all read the ethics statement before joining.
The process consists of a question phase and a comment
phase. During the question phase, the group may ask
clarifying questions (what color was the jacket, where were
you during the rainstorm?) but not questions that call for
interpretation on the part of the dreamer (What does the
color of the jacket mean? Why did it rain?). The dreamer may
or may not reply as he/she wishes. The moderator watches for
the question period to fall off and then starts the comment
phase.
During the comment phase, the participants are asked to take
the dream as their own and reply in the " if this were my
dream" or " in my dream" style. Again, the dreamer may or
may not wish to reply, but are invited to do so. The
moderator makes closing statements, sometimes summaries, and
then moves on to the next dream. Sometimes a questionnaire
is sent out to the group to offset the balance of power held
by the moderator.
DreamWork Notes: This process is very good for teaching and
deepening one's interpretive skills, and research (1) has
shown that for the dreamer, this method yields more
satisfying intuitive understanding than face-to-face groups.
On the other hand, the process does not leave a lot of room
for general chit chat, which often forms the basis of wider
discussions leading to social bonds. That is, it's a little
hard to make friends in this process, even though you can
deeply effect and change another person's life. I have
found this is also very time consuming and takes a lot of
work. Even if you are commenting on someone else's dream,
since the style is to take the dream as your own, you will
be doing a lot of your own psychological work. We have
found that encouraging students to become moderators and/or
start their own groups often off-sets the burn-out that can
occur. We also use DreamWheel as a teaching group for the
DreamGate History of Dreaming classes and find that this
supplemental hands-on group for students an excellent
teaching group.
--------
DreamShare
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dreamshare
dreamshare-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
dreamshare-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
This group began at Jeremy Taylor's website and is still
highly influenced by his work and dreamwork ethos. This
means that they follow the "If this were my dream " style of
dreamwork and see the dream and its interpretations as
always serving healing and/or wholeness.
The feeling and process of this group is somewhat between
the DreamWheel and DreamChatters. A small, dedicated group
oversee the process and guide the discussion of dreams
along. Several dreams may be discussed at the same time and
side topics of symbol exploration, healing rituals and
mutual dream events often occur. This creates a very tightly
knit community which means emotions can sometimes flare as
values collide. Older members of the group often discuss the
problems that arise and they will often draw on other
dreamworkers outside the group and other resources to
resolve the problems.
Dreamwork Notes: DreamShare is a good list for applying and
practicing dreamwork in the real world. The DreamWheel
tends to focus on technique, and is highly recommended as a
teaching group and for very serious dreamworkers.
DreamChatters is a place to occasionally share a dream or
help someone else with a dream, but geared more to
discussing dreaming in general. People who come to
DreamShare have some very real-world issues and often spend
some serious time discussing them. They offer the focus of a
small community and the benefits (and struggles) this can
bring.
--------
Just as a final note on all these communities, I want to say
that the above characterizations are just that,
characterizations. The DreamWheel often gets very loose and
personal and develops a group feeling and DreamChatters
develops very intimate groups and DreamShare can be fun and
playful. Further, the asynchronous nature of these groups
liberates you from having to pick just ONE. You can JOIN
THEM ALL. Many people *are* on all of these groups!
REFERENCES & CITATIONS
(1) Herbert, John W. (2000). Group Dreamwork Utilizing
Computer Mediated Communication: A Dissertation Submitted to
the Faculty of Saybrook Graduate School in Partial
Fulfillment of the Requirements for the Degree of Doctor of
Philosophy in Psychology. Saybrook Graduate School.
Copyright 2000 John W. Herbert. All rights reserved.
(2) BADG Bay Area Dreamworkers Group. This is an informal,
non-hierarchical group in the San Francisco - Bay Area
(California) which I have found one can chat about what its
like to be in the dream world. That is, someone may say "Hey
do you ever have problems with wires during dream flights?"
and someone else will say "Yes, and they always seem to be
powerlines." That is, the open chit-chat allows discussion
of shared experience at a level not offered by strict
procedural groups.
Sample Session - Herbert
http://users.aol.com/john0417/dmgp/dg16.html
Sample Session - Electric Dreams Dream Wheel (Wilkerson &
Hicks)
http://www.asdreams.org/asd-13/2lb12.htm
Sample Session - Electric Dreams Dream Wheel (Wilkerson -
Coins of Life)
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-backissues/ed5-9.txt
Sample Session - Electric Dreams DreamWheel (Wilkerson -
Dreaming with Serbia)
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/serbia
To read John Herbert's research work comparing face to face
groups with online groups, go to
http://www.dreamgate.com/herbert/
For a quick history and summary of this work, see:
Wilkerson, R. & Herbert, J. (1995). John Herbert and the
Internet Group Dreamwork . Electric Dreams 2(6)
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/articles_rcw/ed2-6jh.htm
For a longer history of the DreamWheel
Wilkerson, Richard Catlett (Winter, 1997). A History of
Dream Sharing in Cyberspace - Part I The Association for the
Study of Dreams Newsletter 14(1).
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/cyberphile/rcwasd05.htm
Jeremy Taylor's Website and Dreamwork Ethics
http://www.jeremytaylor.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Online Dream Group Transcript: "Black Hole"
Phyllis Howing and Richard Wilkerson
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Great things are happening on the DreamWheel, so we thought
we'd reprint the full transcript of a recent memorable
session. In the DreamWheel online dream sharing group,
members take turns presenting dreams for the group to work
with, and the dream that came up just after the September 11
terrorist attacks happened to be particularly intense and
timely. The dreamer, "Savannah," and all who participated
in the session showed a remarkable willingness to enter the
"Black Hole" and share their thoughts and feelings. We
thank them for agreeing to have their contributions
reprinted here under pen names, so that others may see how
the process works.
>>>>>> For more information on the ethics statement used
and how to start a dream groups online, please see the
related articles. Also, this article is available online at
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/library/blackhole.htm
The session ( September 18 - September 25, 2001) began, as
always, with a post opening the question phase...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Transcript: "Black Hole" <<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: Moderator (Phyllis)
...We'll move on now to Savannah's dream, "Black Hole."
This is what is known as a hypnogogic event, or a waking
dream that occurs just as a person is falling asleep. It's
also, as the title suggests, a nightmare.
Please glance over the instructions, scroll down to the
dream, and then send your questions to the DreamWheel:
dreamwheel@yahoogroups.com
......
Instructions:
Asking questions of the dreamer:
In this phase of the process you may ask the dreamer
questions about the dream that may clarify the images of the
dream. Do not ask questions that call for interpretations or
that ask for material outside of the dream itself. The aim
is to get to know the dream well AND also to allow for the
maximum number of possible meanings being generated.
Clarifying Questions:
>Example: If this were the DREAM: "He turned around and
grabbed Bill's jacket away from me."You can ask:
1. Questions about the details of any aspect of the dream AS
they appeared IN the dream, for example:
a. (feeling details) How did you feel (in the dream)
when he grabbed Bill's jacket?
b. (action details) Can you describe exactly how he
grabbed Bill's jacket (eg where was he in relation to you;
what movement did he make; what movement did you make)?
c. (content details) What kind of jacket was it? How
were you holding the jacket? Where were you when he grabbed
the jacket?
2. Questions about how any "real" people or places in the
dream differed from their "real" presentation in daytime
life, for example:
a. (who/what was recognisable) Who is the "he" that
grabbed the jacket? Do you know him? Is the place where this
happened to you recognisable?
b. (how does the "familiar" differ) Was Bill's jacket
the same in the dream as in your daytime life? If not, how
was it different in the dream?
3. Questions about what a person/object/action etc means for
the dream ego. You can ask something like: "What would the
dream (plus name) have thought of the person/object/action
etc". This makes sure that the emphasis remains on the dream
and the dream ego rather than switching it to the daytime
ego (who may have very different views upon the matter!).
Dreamers in reply:
If and when you reply to the questions, do so only to
clarify the dream. Try to avoid interpretations at this
point. If it is not clear from the dream how to answer a
question, simply say it was not clear.
[Moderator's note: While we instruct participants to
restrict their questions to the format outlined above, which
asks for clarification questions only, the moderator can
allow other types of questions to be introduced into the
process. The key here, we feel, is that the dreamer remain
in full control of the process. As long as the dreamer
understands that he/she can just as easily *not* answer a
question, then variation on the guidelines seems to fit
within our ethical framework (see Ethics Statement at:
http://www.asdreams.org/idxaboutus.htm). Other times the
moderator may "bring to everyone's attention" that a
particular question has slipped from a question into an
agenda or advice to the dreamer. Again, the key is whether
the advice limits and imposes values on the dreamer, or, as
is the case here, simply offers some alternatives the
dreamer may or may not take. Obviously, too much of this
would distract from the process.]
.......
Savannah's dream: "Black Hole"
I became real sleepy, so I went to bed. I have a sleep
disorder, so whenever the sleep come down on me, I go for
it. I closed my eyes, and I felt like I was asleep, but I
can't say that I was asleep or awake. Almost immediately, I
felt myself being pulled real fast into a black tunnel,
which seems to have a few small white dots, like sand,
scattered around, but not white enough to illuminate the
darkness. The darkness is very scary. I am moving so fast,
in spiraling motions. However, I am not going up or down,
just moving across in a horizontal position. In hindsight,
the darkness seems to be in space.
When I tried to stop myself and turn around, I felt
something getting into my bed behind me. It presses against
my back real hard, and moves on top of me. I was lying on my
left side facing the door, towards the north side. I tried
to move the cover back so I could get my legs out of the
bed, but I felt it pressing down on me with more force. I
tried very hard, but was unable to get up. The harder I
fought it, the harder it pressed against me. It seems to be
trying to get into my body, and some of it managed to get
inside my face and moved around like it was a huge lump. I
tried hard to force it out of me by waking up. When I
couldn't wake up, I begin talking to this nameless force on
top of me, and partly in side of me. I asked it to let me
up. I didn't speak with my vocal voice, but I heard myself
talking to this force. It did not answer, just kept trying
to get inside me and force me through the tunnel.
I admit I was curious to find out what was on the other side
of the black hole. However, my fear of it stopped me.
In summary, I was caught between the realities of being
asleep and awake at the same time. I was very much aware of
what was happening. But I was unable to pass from one to the
other on my own. I don't know how much time passes, but it
seem to be happening real fast. The only way I was able to
come out of it was because, the telephone rings, then I got
up immediately.
This dream like thing has happened twice this week, and over
the years. The only way I get out of it, is, if someone
wakes me or I hear a noise from the outside of my dream.
This has caused me to have a lot of insomnia problems over
the years. Because it's the only dream that I have a vivid
memory of and can recant it in details.
I must add, that the dream has evolved. When I was younger,
the entity, or whatever you call that force, use to come
through the door and get on top of me & and proceeds to ride
me. Now, it's right near my bed and always enter me from
behind, and I am always lying on my side to the north.
Now there is more I don't mind sharing if someone can
enlighten me about this things. I promise you, you won't be
bored by my forthcoming.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Antonius
Hi
How long have you had this dream?
Is there any special periods when this dream is more
frequent?
Are there any other feelings than being scared of the
darkness when you move through the darkness?
How does it feel when the force tries to get into you and
how do you fight it, mentally or physically?
What is the feeling when some of it enters your head and how
does your voice sounds when you speak to it?
A really scary dream, i really hope we will be able to help
you understand it better.
Antonius
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah
Hi Antonius&
How long have you had this dream?
I have had this dream or some form of it since I was eleven
years old. I am fifty-two now.
Is there any special periods when this dream is more
frequent?
The first time I had some parts of this dream was when my
mother died. I was eleven. After she was buried, I saw a
ball of light in the corner of the ceiling, facing north,
and that same night I had the dream for the first time. I
can recall that it started coming more frequently when I
would feel lost and alone, or forced to attend a relative
deathwatch, which was seem to be something I have always
done. I thought this might be the problem, but the dream
does not come after every deathwatch. Sometimes when I have
these dreams over a three or four day period, I write for
days, things that I had no way of knowing or understanding.
I would be afraid to read it at first because I can t
believe I could write such things. Now as I have aged, I am
much better at understanding what I write, and grow less and
less afraid of the words.
Are there any other feelings than being scared of the
darkness when you move through the darkness?
I feel a sense of lost at times, thinking that I have
already been pulled into the darkness. I feel that there is
something waiting for me in the darkness, but I can t tell
what it is. Mostly it fears of what lies beyond, even
though I am tempted to allow myself to be pulled in. Of
late, during each dream I am pulled further into the hole,
and the dream is changing and this make me more afraid.
How does it feel when the force tries to get into you and
how do you fight it, mentally or physically?
I feel violated at first, like something is under my skin
moving around without my permission. Then I feel removed
from myself for a minute or two, or what I think is a minute
or two. I feel like I am not me. I feel myself crying out
loud, but make no sound, thinking within my mind that I must
be possessed by a demon. I fight to wake up, but I am frozen
in place. I know I am asleep, but it seem I am awake. Then I
panic and try to mentally tear this force from within me. I
mentally speak to whatever it is that is messing with me,
pleading with it to leave. I talk to it calmly at first, and
then I become angrier because it won t leave me. Then I beg
to be awakened.
Physically I stay awake; therefore, I suffer with a bad
sleep disorder. I am also a workaholic. There are times when
I am awake for three or four days in a row. There have been
times when I go a year or two without having this dream.
What is the feeling when some of it enters your head and how
does your voice sounds when you speak to it?
I think in a language other then English, and it s as if I
am communicating with someone or something, which I think is
me. I hear the language in my head, and get the feeling that
what or whoever is communicating understands it. There are
times, after I have had these dreams, my right hand write
something like shorthand, that is not shorthand because I
don t know how to write it. I can t even understand what it
means. I write pages and pages of it.
My voice is always pleading, first calmly, then in Angier
tones. It seem that at times I hear my voice like an echo.
Then I panic. The last time I did noticed that even when I
was thinking in anger, my silent voice sounded calm.
Thank you for helping me.
Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: R.C.
Savannah,
What is it that you are afraid of happening? What do you
think would happen if you went into the black hole? What
about if you embraced the energy force? Does the vortex (or
the energy force) have a masculine or a feminine feel?
R.C.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah
Greetings RC,
What is it that you are afraid of happening?
I don t really know all the answer to that RC. Sometime I am
afraid it might be death, then at other times it seem worst
then death. I don t see death as a bad thing, just another
womb to be born from, but still I am afraid of this dearm.
What do you think would happen if you went into the black
hole?
Something inside me tells me I will awaken, but to what I do
not know. I think there is something waiting for me, but I
can t discern what it is, and this makes me more afraid then
anything to enter the vortex.
What about if you embraced the energy force?
I desire to embrace it, but only if I can understand what it
is before I do it. I guess, like in most of us, the unknown
factor in anything seem to scare me silly within this dream
that is so real when it s happening. What scares me even
more is that I can only awaken from it, if someone or thing
outside of my dream make a noise or shake me.
Does the vortex (or the energy force) have a masculine or a
feminine feel?
Now I have never given this any thought. Now that I think on
it, the vortex just seem like a powerful force pulling me
down into it, I don't see it as anything but that. The
voices that speak and listens, on the other hand, when I am
silently pleading to be released, have no gender at all.
More like a hermaphrodite.
Thank you for responding RC.
Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Pixie
Dear Savannah,
You said you would go further in explanation...Please take
no offence to the questions I pose.
This entity; is it forcing you to submit in a sexual way?
(you mentioned that it entered you from behind...).
Are you adverse to the idea that spiritual entities can
attach themselves to the living, when they are lost, and
cannot find their way to the next realm? If you are not, I
encourage you to meditate, with intent, on removing these
entities from your physical and spiritual bodies, so that
you will be drained of your sleep no longer.
How do you feel in the dream, are you confused as to
whether you are dreaming? If so, you may be having a waking
dream, which is different from a dream that occurs in
R>E>M>. The process is usually very fast, and the entire
dream can take place in a matter of seconds, or a few
minutes, and is usually the stage where, with directed
intent, one can manipulate the dreamscape, and provoke an
Out of the Body Experience.
I've had similar experiences to the one you've discribed.
I was also isomniatic, and hadn't slept in over 48 hours,
when the experience occured.
I know exactly what you are describing, with the spiral
tunel experience, but not the entity...this I feel in my
gut, is real, and you should really try to eliminate this
entity from your aura. Just sit quietly, and imagine
yourself as a tower of lights. There are many colours of
lights, through your seven chakras, and beyond your crown
chakra, there are five more. These five lights connect you
with the universe. Ask the entity to leave you; visualize it
leaving through all 12 chakras, (your seven body chakras,
and your upper 5). Explain to the spirit that you will no
longer tolerate it feeding on your energy.
Then, try to get a good long sleep.
Sincerely,
Pixie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah
Greetings Pixie.
You said you would go further in explanation...Please take
no offence to the questions I pose.
No offense taken. For indeed I desire some insight into this
thing that has been on my back since I was eleven.
This entity; is it forcing you to submit in a sexual way?
(You mentioned that it entered you from behind...).
Pixie, when this entity first appeared in my dreams, I felt
it come to my bedroom door, and then I felt it walking
towards my bed. Then it would enter me from the top if I
were on my back, or sometimes from my side, through my arm.
Now it is coming from behind me. When I used to feel the
entity coming in the door I try to wake up, scream, or move
and I am unable to. When I am sleeping with my husband, I
try to get his attention, but can t. I can feel my breathing
getting heavy and fast, it is almost like I am watching this
and a part of it too. I think within my mind that my husband
must hear me, but he doesn t. There were times that I would
escape in the nix of time when he would moved in his sleep
and his arm would land on my head or across my chest. Now
the dreams come mostly when I am alone.
Although I have been sexually, physically, and spiritually
abused during my childhood, and some part of my adult life,
I know the different. I do not feel that the entity is
trying to have sex with me. It crawls under my skin, and
although I can feel it enter my whole body, it appears to
only move under the skin of my face.
Are you adverse to the idea that spiritual entities can
attach themselves to the living, when they are lost, and
cannot find their way to the next realm? If you are not, I
encourage you to meditate, with intent, on removing these
entities from your physical and spiritual bodies, so that
you will be drained of your sleep no longer.
The old folk, where I was born believes that what I am
experiencing is a haunt or witch riding me. They have never
told me what to do to get rid of it because, as a child, I
was never allowed to speak in adult company, just listen.
Once when I became older I told someone about these dreams,
they said I was possessed by a demon and just needed to
pray. I did pray, but to no avail. Of late, I have been
having trouble staying grounded to who I am. I am writing in
five voices now, speaking in three. Some I understand, some
I don t. The older I get the worse it is becoming. My built
up fear of it has caused me to lock myself away from society
90% of the time.
How do you feel in the dream, are you confused as to whether
you are dreaming? If so, you may be having a waking dream,
which is different from a dream that occurs in REM. The
process is usually very fast, and the entire dream can take
place in a matter of seconds, or a few minutes, and is
usually the stage where,with directed intent, one can
manipulate the dreamscape, and provoke an Out of the Body
Experience.
I feel I am asleep; actually, I am sure of it. Still, I am
very much aware of what is happening. In fact, my body
freezes up and I am aware that I cannot move, but inside me
I am thrashing somewhat. The dream seems to last a long
time, but once something or someone awaken me, I look over
at the clock and only minutes have passed. I notice that
whenever I come out of this dream I am breathing real hard,
and my face is wet, I am also tired and agitated. I can
always recall almost every detail of the dream, because it
very seldom changes. I work real hard on programming myself
to stop thinking about it. When I was much younger; the
dream came in the daytime, when I would grab a nap, and at
night. Now it appears only at night, or late in the evening.
Now, I have had lucid dreams. In the last two years, I have
had three. I know the different. Nevertheless, I do see your
point of view.
I've had similar experiences to the one you've described. I
was also isomniatic, and hadn't slept in over 48 hours, when
the experience occurred. I know exactly what you are
describing, with the spiral tunnel experience, but not the
entity...this I feel in my gut, is real, and you should
really try to eliminate this entity from your aura. Just
sit quietly, and imagine yourself as a tower of lights.There
are many colours of lights, through your seven chakras, and
beyond your crown chakra, there are five more. These five
lights connect you with the universe. Ask the entity to
leave you; visualize it leaving through all 12 chakras,
(your seven body chakras, and your upper 5). Explain to the
spirit that you will no longer tolerate it feeding on your
energy. Then, try to get a good long sleep.
Thank you for your input and indeed I shall look into your
suggestions. You see, the dream is why I can t sleep. Before
I begin having it, I had no problem sleeping. I can recall,
that before my twenty-fifth birthday, I could just about
tell when the dream would come. Now I can't. The longest I
have went without having one of these dreams is three years.
Peace
Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Deena
Hello, Savannah,
First let me say, I'm not sure how I will be able to help
you with this dream, it is so frightening to me, I don't
know if I will be able to step into it fully. But I will do
my best to get a sense of it and comment.
A few questions:
The force that enters you, you said in a reply to Antonius
that lately you are being pulled further into the hole. Yet
you describe at other points the force that is pushing you,
pushing into you. Does this force, once attached within you
then try to pull you into the vortex, or is the vortex a
separate force?
Do you sense that the force entering you wants to take over
you for some specific purpose, or does it simply want to get
you into the vortex?
When, after the dream, you find yourself writing, channeling
words and information you don't understand, do you feel this
force within you at that time during the waking moment? Or
is this something you do to get the energy out of you?
Have you ever tried not writing after? Refusing to pick up a
pen for several days until the impulse passes?
Do you feel even the slightest attraction to this channeling
of information that comes after? Or, if not now, did you at
one time get something positive out of it or feel curious to
know what it was all about? Say when you were younger, it
might easily have seemed odd but fascinating, something that
althought it frightened you, still attracted you on some
level.
Which fear is greater, that the force will push/pull you
into the vortex, or that it will take over you completely
and you will lose sight of yourself?
Have you ever thought of showing your writings to someone
who is expert in languages and different types of
alphabets/writing to see if it is a real language rather
than a kind of shorthand?
Whew, sorry, didn't mean to get carried away. I am trying so
hard to understand to be able to help.
Deena
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Q.T. Grrrl
Savannah - One thing really popped into my mind: When you
are pleading for the entity to leave you, how does it react?
It continues on, but is it menacing? Is it lonely? How does
it "treat" you, in respect to not leaving?
Also, if I may follow along Pixie's path a little...I truly
believe in spirits, both good and evil, walking among us.
You mentioned that you have prayed, but to no avail - is
there a clergy member or someone you could talk to about
this? Does the entity
seem familiar to you? In several of my
dreams, I have met people and seen an unfamiliar face, but
felt the presence of someone loved or known from my past,
and even at times, felt the presence of someone or something
that I don't know in waking life, but still feels familiar.
This is, of course, a far cry from what you feel in your
dreams, but I wonder if there is similarity?
Hope these questions will help - I'm looking forward to your
response!!
Cheers,
Q.T. Grrrl :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah
Hi Deena.
The force that enters you, you said in a reply to Antonius
that lately you are being pulled further into the hole. Yet,
you describe at other points the force that is pushing you,
pushing into you. Does this force, once attached within you
then try to pull you into the vortex, or is the vortex a
separate force?
Yes. Actually, I do feel the sensation of first being
pushed, then being pulled. I never gave much thought to it
before, but I noticed it in the last dream. I thought this
was new, and had meant to make notes of it. While I was
being pushed, I felt the crawling under the skin of my face.
Then as I was trying to plead with it to leave me, I felt
like something started to pull me. I didn t get the sense
that it was two different entities, but it was slightly
different energies. The energy pulling had more power then
what was pushing me.
Do you sense that the force entering you wants to take over
you for some specific purpose, or does it simply want to get
you into the vortex?
I never allow myself to think that, but yes I do sometimes.
When such thoughts come to mind, I block them with my
pleading. Fear consumes me during these dreams and I fight
any way I can, especially closing my thoughts of to what my
mind is trying to think, to wake up. I feel that if I listen
I will lose the battle and go into the vortex.
When, after the dream, you find yourself writing, channeling
words and information you don't understand, do you feel this
force within you at that time during the waking moment? Or
is this something you do to get the energy out of you?
I don t feel the force in me at the waking hour, but I feel
the result or the effects of my fight with it. I am highly
active even though I am tired from the dream, and very
creative. Sometimes I have no control over writing and I sat
at the computer for hours writing. A lot of it the writing
is metaphysical to me in nature and the more I write the
more I am beginning to understand what it is I am writing.
But a lot of it is also about things I try not to remember
about my life. Most of the things about my life or other
folks life around me is written in prose or poetry.
The hand scribbling is different. It comes in spells, long
after the dream, sometimes days, sometimes months. Usually I
begin to scribble without noticing it. I become aware of it
after I have done two or three pages of it. The scribbling
comes about when I am under stress about simple things that
I don t think should cause me stress. Yes, all the writing
calms me down, even though I feel tired when I awaken from
the dream, I feel refresh when I write something, anything.
Have you ever tried not writing after? Refusing to pick up a
pen for several days until the impulse passes?
Yes, I have. But when I do go to sleep the dream comes back,
then I am up for two or three days at a time afraid that it
will come back again.
These days, I am writing something that scares me and
fascinated me at the same time. I can t explain it and was
going to put it on the Internet, with all the graphics that
I ve created, and ask for help. The strange thing about this
is, one of the graphic I created, when folded makes a
perfect pyramid. It s wild and it has something to do with
something called the 5th Element. It begun with the 4th
Element, back in November, then when I mastered a slight
understanding of what I was writing, remember I said slight,
it quickly started me to writing about the 5th Element.
Whenever I write something about it, it sucks my energy and
I sleep for a couple of days.
Do you feel even the slightest attraction to this channeling
of information that comes after? Or, if not now, did you at
one time get something positive out of it or feel curious to
know what it was all about? Say when you were younger, it
might easily have seemed odd but fascinating, something that
although it frightened you, still attracted you on some
level.
I felt no attractions at first, but in 1992 a lot of that
changed when I wrote something called In Search of the
Master Dreamer. After reading what I had written, a few
years later, I ran back home to ________ and all sort of
things begin to happen.
You see I am a high school drop out. I had five children by
the time I was twenty-two. I had no skills other then
picking cotton, cleaning house and taking care of children,
the basic. I tell you this so you will understand. When I
was younger, I feared the dreams but not as much as I do
now. Back then, after these dreams I would learn skills so
fast that it amazed me. When the home computer became
popular back in the early eighties, I got one, and don t ask
me how, and mastered it without reading a book. Believe me
when I say, I was just never that smart.
I am a shy person, still, there were times when I would
watch myself speaking out on television, fighting for
children and senior citizens, even had a small community
newspaper. I knew this person doing all of this was not I.
The longer the dream stayed away the more I return to my old
shy self. No matter what project I took on from the
influence of the dream, as the feelings from the dream died
away, I would give up the projects, business, etc. and run
away. These days I am hiding behind this computer hoping,
that someone out there will help me understand, because I
would like to begin to live, which is something I have never
done.
So to sum it up, I think I used the dreams at first, when I
saw the effect it had on me in my waking hours, to take care
of my family and put my husband through college. In 1997, I
gave up everything: money, house, etc. I have no material
things that amount to anything. I did this in hopes that the
dream would go away if it saw that I gave up what I had
gained from it. Instead, the dreams are getting stronger and
the writing is getting more complex. I am tired, I am
scared, and as luck would have it, I have no more money to
run away.
Which fear is greater, that the force will push/pull you
into the vortex, or that it will take over you completely
and you will lose sight of yourself?
That it will take me over and I will lose sight of myself or
who I am. Even though I really have problem with this me,
she is all I know.
Have you ever thought of showing your writings to someone
who is expert in languages and different types of
alphabets/writing to see if it is a real language rather
than a kind of shorthand?
No. No way! I have only shown it to my husband and children,
and they couldn t help but see it because it s been a way of
life for us for a long time now. To me it s all scribbles,
even though some of it is repetitive. But what are the
chances of a nobody like me writing a language. No way. I
would be called crazy and locked away!
Whew, sorry, didn't mean to get carried away. I am trying so
hard to understand to be able to help.
Don t be sorry. I will be forthcoming because I desire some
answers. I will hold nothing back that I can recall to
receive this help. So, don t be sorry. I appreciate being
able to comfortably talk about it. If I can understand the
dream, maybe I can have a life for a change.
Peace,
Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah
Hi Q.T. Grrrl.
Savannah - One thing really popped into my mind: When you
are pleading for the entity to leave you,how does it react?
It continues on, but is it menacing? Is it lonely? How does
it "treat" you, in respect to not leaving?
The crawling under my skin is somewhat menacing to me, cause
it reminds me of a snake crawling under some leaves, with a
hump. But as I think about it, the only thing it does is get
inside of me and try to push/pull me into the vortex. I don
t get the feeling that it s lonely, because I know that
feeling. The entity never respond to me; it just has one
purpose it seems to me and that is to get inside of me and
make me fall down into what is pulling me. Yet there is no
up or down in the vortex. The only way I escape is if the
telephone ring or I hear a loud noise, or if someone come in
and awaken me. I cannot escape it unless I hear something
from outside of the dream, back in my reality. As for how it
treats me, well with the exception of what it is trying to
get me to do, I don t feel anything else. I won t even allow
my mind to think on it. I am so consumed with fear that all
I think about is waking up.
Also, if I may follow along Pixie's path a little...I truly
believe in spirits, both good and evil, walking among us.
You mentioned that you have prayed, but to no avail - is
there a clergy member or someone you could talk to about
this?
I used to go to church seven days a week and twice on
Sundays. I saw a lot of evil in churches and I have attended
most of them. I married a catholic. I have believed in god
as I was taught, but as I grew older, I begin to asked
questions that had no answers. Since then I have came to my
own understanding about god/goddess or whatever one call the
unknown entity. When I was young, I used to try to talk to
clergies about this; even in my thirties, I tried. They
would tell me a demon was inside of me, and I had to stop
sinning. Sinning? What did my dreams have to do with sin?
Since then, I have tried to work it out myself to no avail.
I have even tried to speak with counselors about it, but
they would seem to fear what I would tell them and soon,
their case-load would be too full to keep me on. On the
Internet, I have had better success in talking about it in
bit and pieces.
Does the entity seem familiar to you?
No. It doesn t seem like no one I know. But when I first had
the dream, at age eleven, after I saw the light when my
mother died, I thought it was her, but I haven t had that
feeling since.
In several of my dreams, I have met people and seen an
unfamiliar face, but felt the presence of someone loved or
known from my past, and even at times, felt the presence of
someone or something that I don't know in waking life, but
still feels familiar. This is, of course, a far cry from
what you feel in your dreams, but I wonder if there is
similarity? Hope these questions will help - I'm looking
forward to your response!!
Thank you Q.T. Grrrl. I will be open and honest because it
is my desire to understand what is happening. I have never
tried as hard before to understand this. This might be a
sign of growth on my part, maybe.
Peace,
Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Moderator
If you have any other questions that will help Savannah
*describe* her "Black Hole" experience without asking her to
interpret the experience, send them now. We'll be moving on
to the comment phase for this dream tomorrow.
~Phyllis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Rod
Hi Savannah,
I couldn't help remembering some of my own experience while
I was reading your dream... I have a lot to say about it but
for now I will restrict myself for questions (since it is
the question phase).
I think others have made the most important question and now
I will like to ask you about some of your answers....
"I mentally speak to whatever it is that is messing with me,
pleading with it to leave. I talk to it calmly at first, and
then I become angrier because it won t leave me. Then I beg
to be awakened."
Do you feel/think this entity ignores you? Is this entity
pleased when you get angry?
"It seem that at times I hear my voice like an echo. Then I
panic. The last time I did noticed that even when I was
thinking in anger, my silent voice sounded calm."
Do you panic because of the echo? Does the echo sound in
panic too? What does it say?
"I felt it come to my bedroom door, and then I felt it
walking towards my bed. Then it would enter me from the top
if I were on my back, or sometimes from my side, through my
arm. Now it is coming from behind me."
It is interesting that the last part is a present tense. It
looks like you re-live your dream when you talk about it.
"I didn't get the sense that it was two different entities,
but it was slightly different energies. The energy pulling
had more power then what was pushing me."
Other than power and direction, is there a qualitative
difference in the energies?
"Fear consumes me during these dreams and I fight any way I
can, especially closing my thoughts
of to what my mind is trying to think, to wake up. I feel
that if I listen I will lose the battle and go into the
vortex."
Is your mind a different entity than you? Does it play
tricks to you?
"These days, I am writing something that scares me and
fascinated me at the same time."
Are these feelings opossing like the energies that push/pull
you?
"The crawling under my skin is somewhat menacing to me,
cause it reminds me of a snake crawling under some leaves,
with a hump. But as I think about it, the only thing it does
is get inside of me and try to push/pull me into the
vortex."
What's the color of the snake?
Sincerelly
rod
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah
Greetings Rod:
"I mentally speak to whatever it is that is messing with me,
pleading with it to leave. I talk to it calmly at first, and
then I become angrier because it won t leave me. Then I beg
to be awakened."
Do you feel/think this entity ignores you? Is this entity
pleased when you get angry?
I would have to say yes, because no matter how I plead, it
does not respond any different from what it always do. No
matter how angry I get the entity s action does not change,
in that, all it does is try to get me into the vortex.
"It seem that at times I hear my voice like an echo. Then I
panic. The last time I did noticed that even when I was
thinking in anger, my silent voice sounded calm."
Do you panic because of the echo? Does the echo sound in
panic too? What does it say?
I panic because the echo is the same as my voice and it s
going on even as I plead, it pleads. The echo sounds calm
like my voice, but the pitch is higher and it sound like it
s coming from the outside of me. This causes me to panic
even more and fight harder to wake up.
"I felt it come to my bedroom door, and then I felt it
walking towards my bed. Then it would enter me from the top
if I were on my back, or sometimes from my side, through my
arm. Now it is coming from behind me."
It is interesting that the last part is a present tense. It
looks like you re-live your dream when you talk about it.
That could be grammatical, but you are right. The dream has
been such a part of my life that I have to make real efforts
to program myself not to think about. Talking like this to
others about it does put me there in my waking hours. It s
one of the reasons I am so candid with you about it. When I
say the entity is coming behind me, I meant that it is now
entering me from my backside.
"I didn t get the sense that it was two different entities,
but it was slightly different energies. The energy pulling
had more power then what was pushing me."
Other than power and direction, is there a qualitative
difference in the energies?
I have never given this any thought, but in my younger days,
I don t recall being pushed and pulled, just pushed. I begin
to experience the push/pull sensations after my twenty-fifth
birthday. The only other different is that the entity is
already in the room with me, when it used to come to the
door and walk up to my bed.
"Fear consumes me during these dreams and I fight any way I
can, especially closing my thoughts of to what my mind
istrying to think, to wake up. I feel that if I listen I
will lose the battle and go into the vortex."
Is your mind a different entity than you? Does it play
tricks to you?
When I am in this dream, my mind does seem to be different,
because it tries to influence me to go into the vortex. I
don t get the feeling it s playing tricks, because since day
one, all the entity have ever done is consistently attempt
to get me into the vortex. It has never spoken to me
verbally or otherwise, unless you count the writing I am
doing.
"These days, I am writing something that scares me and
fascinated me at the same time."
Are these feelings opposing like the energies that push/pull
you?
Yes.
"The crawling under my skin is somewhat menacing to me,
cause it reminds me of a snake crawling under some leaves,
with a hump. But as I think about it, the only thing it does
is get inside of me and try to push/pull me into the
vortex."
What's the color of the snake?
There is no snake, per say. However, when the entity is
crawling under my face, it looks and feels like a snake is
crawling. The only different is that I feel a lump rising
up in my face every once and a while as it crawl around it.
I must mention here that it has only crawled on the left
side of my face. When it attempts to go to the right,
something or someone wakes me up. I do, however, feel the
entity throughout my whole body, but it only moves under the
skin in my face.
I don't think I mention this, and no one asked, so let me
say that within this dream I see everything that is
happening to me. I see it and yet it is happening to me at
the same time.
Peace
Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Moderator (opening comment phase)
Savannah's dream, "Black Hole," is intense and frightening.
I'm sure all of us would like to help her understand and
resolve the issues underlying her experience. However, by
sticking with the "If this were my dream..." approach and
not giving advice about what SHE ought to do, we both
release the dreamer from a defensive position, allowing her
intuition to work from its own source, AND we really do our
OWN work regarding the entities and hobgoblins of our OWN
souls. So please keep the DreamWheel instructions in mind
as you make this dream your own.
Please glance over the instructions then scroll down to the
dream, read it and send your comments to the DreamWheel at:
dreamwheel@yahoogroups.com.
......
Comment Instructions:
In this part of the process, you may comment on the dream.
While you are welcome to make any comments you wish, what we
are teaching in this group is a non-defensive style
developed by John Herbert (Montague Ullman stage II
Variation) modified for email. This segment is the one in
which each group member takes the dream as if it were his or
her own and shares feelings and thoughts about the dream and
what it might mean in each member's life situation.
1. You can comment on what ANY aspect of the dream means FOR
YOU:
a. The feelings YOU have about any aspect of the dream or
about the whole dream.
b. The metaphorical or symbolic meanings FOR YOU of any
actions or images in the dream.
c. The relationship between any dream images and events
and what that relationship means FOR YOU.
d. The relationship between all dream images and events as
YOU see them (you can change the order of events and images
and present them in the way you feel makes most sense to
YOU).
2. In your comments make the dream your own:
a. At the beginning of all comments use something like:
"If this were my dream..." This sets up the general
subjective attitude and works as a reminder to the
commentators that they are not telling the dreamer what they
think the dream means for the dreamer, but rather what the
dream might mean for themselves if they had had that dream.
b. To further this relationship to the dream write the
commentary as if you were talking about your OWN dream
happening NOW (use the first person singular and also
present tense in your commentary):
>EXAMPLE: Dream: "I'm looking at my mother walking down a
long hall towards an open window."
I might comment "In MY dream the nurturing mother has found
a new way to escape ME." In my comment, it is "my mother",
"my hallway" and"my dream". This may or may not provide
insight to the initial dreamer, but it's surprising how
often this non-defensive approach does lead to new insights
for both the dreamer and the commentator.
Dreamer's Response:
At the end of the comment phase the dream is returned to its
source and the dreamer can reply. The type of reply is
entirely up to the dreamer - but some response helps both
the commentators and the dreamer. It provides closure for
the commentators and helps the dreamer to make what was
learned in the process more firmly his/her own.
....
[Note: the dream is repeated here.]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Deena
Well, Savannah,
This is certainly a complex dream situation, especially with
it being repeated many times. I will admit I took Phyllis's
warning to keep the dream as my own with some trepitude. I
had started out that way, but soon found myself
dissassociating from the dream, trying to not make it my
own.
But I joined this group understanding the rules, so, I will
give it a second run and see what I come up with. Here goes,
off the top of my head. (Or maybe I should say, off the tips
of my fingers!)
If this were my dream I would be, first of all, concerned
with the fear it instills in me. I do not ever believe
dreams are meant to harm us, but rather to help us. So, if I
am feeling this great fear and resistence of this dream,
perhaps I should go deeper into that resistence.
What is happening here? Something is trying to get into me,
but what? I am being pushed and pulled into a vortex, I am
afraid of what is on the other side.
Some have told me it is evil, a demon. But if that were so,
would it not have harmed me in some way? But the results of
this dream are not harmful, but rather positive in many
ways. The dreams seem to trigger two types of events, one, a
surge of writing and creativity, two, a period of increased
activity in which I not only function but have many
accomplishments. These accomplishments feel alien to me, as
if they do not belong to me. Just as the writings seem to
come from outside of me. But is that the case?
These triggered events are positive things! They are not
evil, they are creative and positive in many ways. The
writing... some of it makes no sense to me, and that
frightens me. I have heard of channeling, I wonder if I may
be somehow sensitive to and picking up on a kind of
universal consciousness in some of the writing. This too
frightens me, because it seems so weird, I am afraid of what
others might say.
But not all of the writing is like this. Other writing is
more personal, poems and prose about me, yet it doesn't seem
to come from me either. But I know that many creative people
often go into this kind of "zone" where the writing or the
art seems to take over. What is it about fiction writers who
say that their characters took over the story and told them
where to go? Perhaps this is just a very creative side of me
taking over at these times.
A creative side that is triggered somehow by the dream.
I have to ask myself if I may be in fact a very creative
person, if these writings and other accomplishments do
indeed come from me. Perhaps these were things that were
supressed in me as I grew up. Aspects of my own self that I
was unable to express when I was young. But the dream,
somehow it awakens this in me. Why?
Something, a force, coming into me. Is that force none other
than my Self? Pushing and pulling me to the vortex. Pushing
into me, trying to integrate this creative self with the shy
self I know. Pushing and pulling. The images make me think
of a birth tunnel. A baby being born, how difficult it must
be, how frightening, the trip through the birth canal, the
pushing and pulling sensations of labor. This is what the
dream feels like to me.
My true self, not a monster, just the me that was meant to
be, the creative authoritive, talented person that the shy
me has denied all these years. She, no, I am trying to merge
with myself, trying to become whole, taking myself through
the vortex to be born anew, whole and alive.
Whew!
Okay, Savannah. I don't know if this helps you, but perhaps
something there will ring true for you. I think many of us
have multiple aspects of who we are that find expression in
different parts of our life. But sometimes life and
circumstance can cause us, for whatever reason, to supress
some of the more sensitive (and often more creative) aspects
of our personality. I have seen this in myself and in
others. But eventually we learn to accept all parts of our
self. We learn to become whole.
For some it may happen suddenly, for others it is a life
long voyage. But it's never too late to awaken.
Blessings,
Deena
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Kayla
Hi Savannah,
If this were my dream, I would ask myself how this very
scary dream has come to me in the service of my healing and
wholeness. I remember that a nightmare is the way my psyche
tries to get my attention. A part of my psyche is hurting
and screaming for my attention and wants me to look at
something in my life that I am simply too afraid to face.
I see the whirling dark vortex as a powerful wind of the
spirit drawing me in, forcing me to look inward, deeper and
deeper within myself, to look at the darkness that sucks
away my energy. In waking life, dark vortexes are tornadoes
that force me underground, to the basement. As a metaphor,
I see the dark vortex forcing me to the basement of my
psyche in order to put a face on what lurks there. I am too
afraid to find out.
The faceless darkness paralyzes me and keeps me from moving,
from living, from connecting with those I love. It sneaks
up on me. I try to get rid of it, to fight it off. But its
there. Just underneath my skin. I feel powerless. This
darkness wants me to go deeper, to jump into the black hole
that sucks away all my energy, to face the paralyzing
darkness. It wants me to feel it so it makes my skin crawl.
But I am too afraid to feel it. I don't want to feel it. I
am too afraid to face it.
Only an outside distraction such as a phone ringing, or
noise, releases me from the power of this force. What is
this darkness I am so afraid to look at? Perhaps it is my
memories of childhood abuse and emotional neglect, or other
wounds that I have experienced in life, things I would
rather not look at very closely because it feels too
painful. Or perhaps it is a part of myself that I really
don't like, such as my rage and natural aggression, I don't
like to feel angry. Or maybe it is the call of my deeply
wounded inner child who is lost in the darkness of her pain
and wants me to find her in the black hole in which she is
buried. I don't want to feel her grief. While I am too
afraid to look at this darkness, to put a face on it, to
feel it, I know that only by looking directly into the face
of my darkness will I ultimately experience healing and
light. It holds the key to my wholeness. Without the shadows
my life would be flat, without form, and without contour.
The shadows are as important as the light.
Thank you for your willingness to share this scary and
powerful dream!
Kayla
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Jell
Dear Savannah,
As my dream, I am afraid to sleep anyway. but when I do,
just as I am about to really drift off, I feel the DREAD
come upon me. I have felt it since I was a girl. I know I
cannot control it, that it will have its way with me.
It is so horrible, this dark thing in the night, who is it?
Who would attack me in this way? It enters my face, and
crawls under my skin. I feel intense disgust. And fear,
almost panic. I beg it to leave me, but it will not. there
is nothing i can do. I am like a small child being sexually
abused, and I can do nothing but go to another place in my
mind. But there is no other place.
Another place opens up, it is a vortex of whirling darkness.
I don't want to go THERE! It is so frightening and horrible
to be dragged, and there is no control. But there is a part
of me that does want to go there. It's not just curiosity,
its the realization that anyplace, absolutely ANYPLACE might
be better than enduring this attack on me. I'm just a
little girl, I can try to be strong, but I'm not that
strong, and I've just lost my mother. I am pushed and
pulled, both within and without, but no matter what I think,
or plead, or pray, or scream, no one comes to my aid, and
there is no help for me! WHY DOESN'T SOMEONE COME TO HELP
ME?! I remember that when I was a child, my mother
protected me. She is gone now. No one will ever protect me
like she did. Instead, I am attacked, over and over again,
in the night, and there is no help coming.
Whoever is doing this to me opens my mouth wide and violates
me inside my mouth, my face, my being. I feel it like a
snake under my skin and I can't do anything; I try to scream
but I cannot. I know I am awake, but wish I were not; I
know I am asleep but wish I were not. There is NOTHING I
can do to prevent this, and it happens again, and again, and
again. Even if my mind can forget this, my body never can,
and this evil, evil attacker does not listen to any of my
screams, prayers, or begging. I feel so alone, I think, if
my mother were here she would protect me, but I know that's
not going to happen, this time at least, so I fight the
vortex. This is the dark hole, the point of no return, and
thank goodness, I can at least keep myself from being sucked
into its nothingness. Because that is, to me, what it is:
nothingness, the refuge from painful existence.
I am so angry, so outraged, I keep scribbling and scribbling
and scribbling but there are no words for this kind of
violation to a little girl. My poor little girl, inside me
all the time, does not know how to write good english, or
even write in cursive. She only knows how to scribble her
outrage, and pour it out and out and out.
Sorry, Savannah, I went a bit further into this than I meant
to. It has helped me too to explore this on your behalf,
but I must stop now. Thank you so much for your honesty,
and I hope that if I have said things that are not true for
you you will remember I was feeling it as "my dream." May
many blessings shower you, brave soul. Jell
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Antonius
If this were my dream i would try to really analyze the fear
feeling. Of course thats easier said than done, especially
when its the kind of crippling fear that totally freezes you
but fear can never been overcome by turning away from it.
And i know that no fear that im aware of can ever cripple me
because my mind can always overcome it even if it may be a
lifelong battle. Maybe i cant see what this tunnel is
because of the fear that clouds my mind?
The moving through the black tunnel makes me think of moving
to something completly new in a spiritual way, some sort of
awareness, the feeling of being reborn. And of course its
scary because i dont know what awaits me on the other side
or do i? Maybe some part of me does know whats on the other
side because i get the feeling that i will awaken but im
really afraid of the changes that may come if i complete the
journey.
Then there is this strange force trying to get into me and
take me over. I dont really think its evil or some sort of
spirit even if i do believe in spirits, i think its a part
of myself. Maybe some part of myself that i have totally
shut out from me and now it try to force itself on me. Not a
very tactfull way i have to admit but maybe its the only way
it can make me aware of its existance.
Then it try to force me through this tunnel and i am a
little curious but mostly frightened. Of course it scares
me, it feels like i have no control over where i am heading.
And it doesn't help to talk to it or beg it or even be angry
at it because the last thing it wants is to leave me.
Then there is these strange writings that comes from some
part thats not me. What scares me most is not where they
come from, it is that others will think im crazy. That i
pick up this information from some other source, whenever it
is some sort of universal consciousness or some other part
of myself, doesn't really scares me. Maybe this tunnel is a
connection with that thing? Maybe that force somehow wants
to force me though this tunnel and into contact with the
same source that gives the information that appears in the
writings? Maybe that source is some higher part of myself?
Antonius
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: RC
Savannah, If this were my dream, and I had been having it
on and off since I was a child, and it's still scaring me, I
would approach it this way...
Two things that I remember very clearly from studying Jeremy
Taylor's writings... One, is that "dreams come to us in the
service of health and wholeness." There is nothing "bad"
about dreams; they are just trying to get my attention so
that they may teach me and help me become whole and healthy.
Two, Even if a dream is bringing up information that is
scary to me, I need to trust that I am indeed ready to learn
what it has to teach me. If I was not ready to learn, I
simply would not remember the dream. So the fact that I am
now sharing it in a community, is a signal that I am ready
to deal with it and learn from it.
That said, this is what I think the dream is about (were it
my dream)...
There is something that happened to me when I was a child
one time (or many times), just about when I was ready to
fall asleep. It was a terrible, scary thing that happened,
and it violated me. Ever since then, I have associated
falling asleep with being violated.
As long as I am fighting and afraid in this dream, I will be
fighting and afraid in waking life too. As scary as it may
seem, I think that it is time to let go of the resistance,
and let the darkness overcome me. I have been fighting it
all of my life.
If it were my dream, I would consciously decide, before
attempting to sleep, that I am willing to go into the dream,
and take it to the next scene... to go into the vortex; to
allow the force to enter me, and see what it has to teach
me. Scary? Definitely. But what is worse? Being scared
at night? Or being scared all my life?
To take care of myself, though, I would do one of two
things: Either, make sure that I do this on a weekend when
I have time to recover and to write after awakening (and set
an alarm to make sure that I do); Or, arrange to have a
loving/supportive friend call and awaken me and listen to me
as I tell her/him what I have learned.
Good luck Savannah, I hope that you will keep in touch and
let us know what learning you find - even if it is many
months from now. (And if you would like, I would be willing
to be the person/witness on the other end of the telephone
for you).
RC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Susan
Hi Savannah,
Thanks for presenting your dream. I hope you will be able
to gain some resolution or transformation of it.
When I first read your dream, I thought about it from a
scientific point of view. When people fall asleep, they
usually lose consciousness, then their body becomes
paralyzed. When they dream, they usually can not move their
body. Before they awake, they regain control over their
movements. But sometimes people gain consciousness before
they are able to move their body again. This has only
happened to me once or twice, and I found that to be very
scary. I just let it go and I was able to get my movement
back again. Anyway, I think I'd like to read more about
this subject in the sleep disorders literature to see how it
is explained and treated.
When I process the dream, I think about several things:
Ambivalence about death. Wanting to be with relatives
who have passed over verses fear of death/unknown. Letting
go (i.e. all the pain, fear, anger, etc. of my life) verses
safety/survival instincts that protect me from others and
myself.
There's a whole psychology based upon attachment, about how
we make and break bonds. How we spend our entire lives
dealing with loss (i.e. loss of parents, loss of youth, loss
of innocence, loss of opportunities, loss of health, etc.,
and ultimately the loss of our lives).
Some individuals have discussed spirits and demons. I don't
have any experience with that. But I think more about the
shadow, parts of ourselves that we disown or fail to
recognize. I think there are strong emotions that are
repressed, negative emotions like anger (for me) about
situations where my needs for were not met and where it was
not permissible to express my emotions.
I have not done much exploring via my dreams (because of
fear?). I'm lucky if I remember them. But in real life, I am
a bit of a sensation seeker. I've been to a water slide
park where you get sucked through a waterfall into a black
hole (a covered flume) on a single or double inner tube.
Anyway, it was a thrill. A thrill I thought was relatively
safe. So I did it again and again... And I thought about
being reborn.... But if I was REALLY afraid, I would take
someone else along with me.
Thanks again for your dream. I'm fascinated by the
creativity that arises out of adversity. I think about the
untapped potential in each of us.
Susan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Pixie
Dear Savannah,
I'm sorry my comments are so late, I've had a busy week.
In my dream, I am travelling through space, rapidly
through a tunnel, in which I move horizontally. Because I am
in my sleep body, I feel vulnerable, and I feel as though I
have relinquished control to God, the universal powers, to
something larger than me.
My Mother died, and I wonder where she is now. My
religious education would lead me to believe that she was
exhalted as one of heaven's finest. But there is an empty
space in my life, and try as I might, through my
husband, my brothers and sister, and my own children, no one
has given me that type of warmth and nurturing again. I've
wished for some kind of psychic commuication with her, but
when I've looked to the sky and called out her name; only
the wind answers me.
I have given alot of thought to mortality. My mother's,
other family members, and my own. I hear the stories people
tell about the tunnel of death...but on the other side of
this is the light of perfect love.
Why I don't reach the other side of the tunnel becomes
real. It is not yet my time.
In my dream I feel the tunel represents two things. The
void in my life where important people have been, and Death,
asking me to accept and be aware of "him". If I imagine
Death as being a person, like the "angel of death", and I
try to make this in my mind's eye, a beautiful strong,
handsome, loving black angel, with deep purple wings, and a
dark blue flowing robe, I can reconcile somewhat, my fear of
the unknown, and of dying. Death is just doing his job,
coming to get us when it is time to leave this earthly
plane.
The entity I feel in my room is possibly something I have
created from the unanswered questions I have had everytime
someone has passed away. It is a big "?". I have been told
what to beleieve but I have always questioned, and felt
myself guilty for my lack of fait in the Almighty. I also
feel that it is entirely possible that when I travel down
the tunnel, I could be bringing something back, something
which is attatching itself to me. It is borrowing my energy,
and I must reclaim this.
The key to solving this riddle-like dream for me is to
"Take back" my control. To put things in perspective. I
chose to be born, I one day will chose to die. But now, I
choose to live, to my fullest, and I will not give away my
precious energy, anymore.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Molly
Hello Savannah. Thank you for trusting us with your
frightening dream and giving us the opportunity to work with
our own "demons." I hope you find something helpful in our
comments.
In my dreams I don't know if I'm asleep or awake, so I must
be on the boundary between my conscious and unconscious, and
it seems something unconscious is trying to get through to
me. It pulls and pushes at me; I feel both drawn in and
repelled. It's a dark tunnel, a great Unknown, and I want
to know and am afraid to know. When I try to stop myself I
feel pressured and find I cannot move, cannot awaken. The
tunnel feels like a birth canal - is this a rebirth I am not
yet ready to undergo? Am I not yet ready to awaken to my
full potential? Yet I sense something is waiting for me. I
feel the energy moving within me, trying to break through,
and I hear myself speaking, hear my echo pleading, as if
there is a great emptiness all around me. It feels like
this energy is trying to trick me. I don't trust it, and
certainly don't understand it.
Though I can see that some good has come out of these dreams
- energy for life choices, creative inspiration and
expression - I know that I must not surrender to this force
that assaults me. And yet, I don't want to kill it. What
I want is to understand it and have some control. I know
that it is not evil, because it comes from within me and I
am not evil. So if this were my dream I would want to
confront this force and dialogue with it to find ways we
might work together. I would think this through while
awake, practicing what I might say and imagining how the
energy might respond and how I would respond to that - and
then, as I am falling asleep, I would focus on trying to
bring this into the dream. I might want to ask the force
how it might help me. I might thank it for the good that
has come out of it. I might ask its name. I might imagine
a different outcome. I also might read about lucid dreaming
to help me bridge the gap between conscious and unconscious.
Most of all, if this were my dream, I would relax and
remember that a dream cannot harm me.
Molly
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah
Beloved Dream Wheelers:
When I read your comments, over and again, my hands trembled
and I cried tears of joy. Something deep inside of me was
moved by each word, as you made my dream your own. For a
moment, I felt like I was being pushed in and pulled out of
the dark hole & in my waking hour. I felt like I was being
reborn in each series of comments.
Here I am, surrounded by strangers, behind glass screens,
telling them of my most intimate moment with self. You, with
seemingly, no race, creed, or idea of who I am; except
through the dark hole I am in, that also served as a key to
the color of my skin, as well as, the place of my torment.
Strangers, willing to walk in my shoes, to help me heal the
inside me, that has fought for fifty-two years, to be free.
My goodness, reliving, each of you, reliving my dream,
making it your own, Wow! I have never in my life seen
anything like this before. I once was blind, but now I see.
I know now these words have a meaning for me &
I used to think I knew about slavery, until I encounter the
enslavement of myself. I used to think I would never have a
life, doomed to live in a world filled with strife. Afraid
of succeeding, pursuing failure like it was a badge of
honor. Judging all, except this me that I am and cursing
myself for betraying myself, proclaiming myself as one of
the walking dead.
How can I say thanks to you, beloved dream wheelers? How can
you know what you have done for me, unless I open myself,
and allow you to see that now I understand, without fear,
what everyone is talking about, in these troubled times &
this unity. No brothers, no sisters, just souls helping
souls to awaken &
There are all sorts of heroes/heroine and my heart goes out
to the innocence folks that died on September 11, 2001.
Nevertheless, I dare say, you are my heroes/heroines today.
For during this crisis, where it was hard for me to see that
being united was a good thing to be, even if I felt that, my
country had betrayed and discriminated against me. That
forgiveness and unity is good, for a new beginning & like a
baby being born, a clean slate, and an empty tape to be
filled with life.
I don t know where this awakening will take me, but I do
know, from here on, I will be traveling with my eyes open.
Forever aware of my dark hole and the road to my soul,
enjoying this me that I am and hope to be; free, to live for
the first time, risking myself to be myself, to enjoy life
boldly.
May god/goddess, or whatever name you give to your
higherself, grant to each of you, individually and
collectively, a happy boon that rises each day to bring you
joy. Including the knowing that each of you, unseen with
flesh eyes, rest within this heart; that you have had mercy
on, this day.
You are my heroes/heroines, the invisible faces that I see
in the face of hope, a new dawn for me.
I used to think I knew who god/goddess was until I
encountered each of you. Where I will begin is not as
important as were I am, right now. Where I am right now, is
not as important at where I will begin.
I feel good, yes, I do, yes I do! I feel good! Upon my word,
I dare say & my soul rejoices this day, which is the first
day of the rest of my life. For once, a clich that feels
just right. Alas, a baby is born becoming a child, becoming
a girl, becoming a young lady, becoming a woman, each born
at the same time, in an instance & right before your eyes.
Moreover, I marveled, beloved, at your unity, and pleasantly
surprise at your willingness to bypass self and help me. For
each of you have joined as one to become the midwife of my
deliverance.
Know this within your soul, that some parts of my truth, of
who I am, you all have spoken to, and like a puzzle, I have
connected the pieces. Whereas I understand the lost of the
metaphorical biblical Lot, who lost his wife because she
looked back, the divine dichotomy of it all is that I love
salt. Salt, like the human element, is the seasons of life,
without which, living would be so bland. I am sad for Lot s
wife, but even in death she served a unique purpose, she put
spice into his life. So it will be with my dark hole.
Bowing my head, in meditation & in prayer & I give thanks,
and bless the day each of you was born, honored to be in
your path, right now.
If you desire, each of you may communicate with me
individually or collectively, or call on me if I can be of
service to you. For each of you, are apart of me now,
acknowledged.
I have a surprise for you, which I am testing out even as I
write this. Something inside me is and has changed and is
acting on the outside .. something wonderful. I am headed
to the place of my birth, ________. There are things that I
must put in motion so that all of this will not be in vain.
I must wave goodbye to the past, taking the good from it,
like the salt, and leaving the other behind, so that change
can come about and thus my life will begin. I will email all
changes and happening to each of you that commented as it
happen. For I feel you should, because of your kindness,
know what you have given birth to.
I shall keep in touch and let you know how it goes. Damn, I
feel good! Thank you Lady Phyliss and feel free to post this
to the Dreamwheeler board if you do desire, or to anyone I
might have missed. If you didn't get a personal copy of this
it mean your email address is incorrect. Thank you, thank
you all and peace and blessings!
Also I welcome any more comments .. but I had to respond
now.
I am all things and no name. I am Savannah.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: L.D.P
Dear Savannah,
I was very moved by your dream, your answers to other
people's questions, and your response to the first group of
comments you received. Thank you for sharing yourself so
openly with us.
If this were my dream, I would keep in mind what Jeremy
Taylor says about the purpose of nightmares: that they come
to warn us that there's a "survival issue" at stake--but the
survival is not about our body, but about our authentic
self. When I'm not being true to myself, or when I'm about
to do something that would violate who I really am, then
I'll have a nightmare to warn me to get back on track.
Usually when I'm not being true to myself, it's because I'm
being pressured by someone--or by society as a whole--to be
different from who I really am. Also, there may be a part of
me that I'm not in touch with, so I may not even know who
that part of me really is. (This is usually the result of
messages I got from my parents and/or society when they
didn't like who I was, so I suppressed my authentic self in
order to be accepted and loved. Now the nightmare is coming
to tell me that I need to reclaim the rejected parts of
myself.)
In my dream, the black tunnel is both a birth canal and
the tunnel that people pass through when they have a Near
Death Experience. In either case, if I go through the
tunnel, I will find light at the end. I will die to my old
life, and I will be birthed into a new life.
The harder I fight against the force that wants to push
me into the tunnel, the harder it presses me. This force
really knows what is good for me, and it isn't going to give
up! Of course I resist going through the tunnel, because
it's terrifying to "die." I'm very attached to the way I am,
even though my life is painful in many ways. At least I know
what my life is like know, and that gives me some security.
It's terrifying to give up being the way I am, without
knowing who I'll be next. But this is the only way I can
change and grow. The old me has to die before the new me can
be born. (Someone gave me an example that helps me with this
concept: The "girl who didn't know how to tie her shoes" has
to die so that "the girl who knows how to tie her shoes" can
be born. Children have many dreams of death because they go
through so many changes in such a short time.) I'm afraid
that I will "lose sight of myself or who I am." But if I
grow, I will be able to see the new me as well as the old
me--so I'll actually see more of who I am.
I am scared that I can only awaken from this dream if
someone or something outside me makes a noise or shakes me.
For me, this is because the dream isn't finished yet. If I
go through the tunnel and see what happens on the other
side, the dream will unfold naturally and I will wake up
naturally. It's only because I don't allow the dream to
continue that it doesn't stop on its own. (By the way, I
believe what others have said--that dreams come to us for
the purpose of our health and wholeness. I don't believe we
can be harmed by dreams. I may be scared or physically hurt
inside the dream, but when I wake up no damage had been done
by the dream itself--although I may be hurt by my response
to the dream if I misinterpret it and act according to my
misunderstanding.)
If it were my dream, it would be directly related to my
sleep disorder. I think that if I can allow the dream to
unfold naturally, I will start sleeping naturally too. And
if I get the "message" of the dream, then it will stop!
Dreams don't come to tell us what we already know, so once I
understand it, there will be no reason for me to have it--at
least not until the next time in my life when I'm doing
something that isn't true to who I am. But by then I'll know
what to do--and if I go into the tunnel again, I'll be fine.
It's significant to me that when the entity enters me,
it only moves under the skin of my face. Our skin and face
are part of our "persona"--the part of ourselves that we
present to the world. If my persona does not fit with my
authentic self (probably because I've been taught to be
ashamed of some part of myself and am hiding it), then the
entity is trying to get under my skin and change my persona.
If this were my dream, I would ask myself: In what ways
doesn't my persona really fit me? Maybe I could literally
make some changes in my face, e.g. in the make-up I wear (or
don't wear). Or maybe the "face" is more symbolic, and I
could make other changes in the way I present myself to the
world (hair, clothes, the way I speak, sit, walk, etc.)
I'm also struck by the fact that the crawling under my
skin feels like a snake. Snakes are a symbol of
transformation, because they shed their skins and are "born"
again with a new skin. Again, my dream is telling me that I
need to "die" before I can be reborn with a new "skin." (The
new skin makes me think of the new persona again.) I'm also
interested that the "snake" only crawls on the left side of
my face. My left side is my feminine side, so if it were my
dream the change the dream is asking me to make has to do
with my feminine nature. Because this dream started after my
mother died, I wonder if some part of my feminine nature--
maybe a part of me that identified with my mother--shut down
at that time. And ever since then the dream has been trying
to get me to reclaim that part of myself. At the very least,
my life changed dramatically after my mother died, and I had
to repress some part of me in order to deal with the new
situation. If other people's expectations of me changed
after my mother died, and I tried to live up to their
expectations, then I had to repress authentic parts of
myself to meet their expectations.
If the dream causes me to write, and if the writing that
comes from the dream calms me down, I would want to start
writing on a regular basis--even when I haven't had the
dream. Maybe the dream is telling me that I'm a writer. Or
maybe I just need to journal for self-expression. Either
way, if I write by choice on a regular basis, then maybe I
won't feel compelled to write as a result of the dream. It
would be a lot less scary for me to write by choice than by
compulsion! And if a lot of the writing I do after the dream
is about things I try not to remember about my life, I would
try to write about these things by choice. If writing about
them as they actually happened is too scary, I could write
about them in fiction, as if they happened to someone else.
If even this is too hard, I might want to find a good
therapist to talk about these things with. (There are
"transpersonal" therapists who specialize in spiritual
experiences--which is how I see this dream and the things it
makes me do--and who won't think I'm crazy. A good
transpersonal therapist will realize that I'm going through
a spiritual crisis, and will help me work toward the
spiritual awakening that this crisis can lead to.) Whenever
I repress my memories, they cause me more pain than if I
remember them. (I usually get pschosomatic symptoms--and
nightmares!)
I hope this is helpful. I think you're an incredibly
brave woman, and I wish you the best of luck in working
through the issues that the dream has raised for you.
Best wishes, L.C.D.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah
L.C.D.,
You don't know how many times you hit the nail on the head
with this one. I really apprecaite the effort you put into
your comments. Know that I will take them to heart. -
Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Rod
Dear Savannah,
if this where my dream....
when I start to see myself in the dream, I can feel the
force entering from the back and pushing and pulling towards
the vortex. My face is to the North. I try to wake up but
there's no use unless something external awakes me.
This scene reminds me about how much I like to control
things. I always try to understand everything before I give
it a try. I don't like to go blind when I make some
decisions. I look North because I want to have a sense of
direction, as the North start will represent this. But
suddenly, from the back (which is the part I cannot see from
myself) enters the force. It is like if this force knows how
weak I am about not seeing/controling things.
The force starts to pull/push and this sensation reminds me
about how I go trough life... it's like if I wanted to
strugle in order to feel I was alive, I never give myself a
chance to just be there, just to breath. I always have to be
doing something, to be productive... and that vortex... it's
like no ground under my feet, I can't stand not having some
ground under my feet... I just remember I have a body... and
I treat it the same way... always pushing/pulling because
there's always something to do, someone to help... and where
does this take me ?...
I realize my mind is very active... it doesn't like to stand
just for a moment... What's the hurry ? I start to think
that I'm a prisoner of my own crazy mind.
A sensation in my face... like a lump... could it be that
something inside me wants to get out ?
I think I will experiment with something new in my life...
something which I don't control myself, I will let my body
to do what it pleases... why not some handwriting... I will
let the hand do what it wants and see what happens...
Interesting. Very pleasant and scary, like the push/pull
loop. Where does it take me ? To the vortex... to something
which is not hard ground... here control doesn't have
place... I just let my self at something else's hands... can
this something else be a subconscious mind ?... I don't
know, it's out of my reach..?
After this experience I feel very inspired... like the lump,
something comes from inside me...
Why am I scared then ?... It seems that I don't want to
give up control... if I go through the vortex I will
have to give it up... to let go... I don't want to loose
control... again the push/pull...
Rod
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah
Oh my goodness Rod .. Oh my goodness. Thank you! - Savannah
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>End of Session<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
We invite you to join us on the DreamWheel. There are
currently 173 members on the Wheel, so obviously "lurking"
is fine (you're also welcome to participate of course).
Just send an email to dreamwheel-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
or drop me a line at pthowing@earthlink.net. Or try out
this dreamwork process in your own online groups.
Phyllis Howing, DreamWheel moderator
Richard Wilkerson, DreamWheel founder
=======================================================
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Developing Your Own Dreamwork Ethics
Richard Wilkerson
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The question of ethical dreamwork is about the acceptable
behavior related to values. However, what is valued will
differ from individual to individual and situation to
situation. Thus the ideas of transparency and disclosure
have become important in relation with ethical standards and
behavior. These ideas are even more important in an online
global community where people from vastly different value
systems may be interacting.
Basically, the productive application of disclosure and
transparency mean that your group is up-front about what
they expect from one another and from other groups and
individuals. Can the group tell others outside the group
what they heard during a group discussion, or are some or
all of the conversations confidential and only shared within
the group?
Whether offline or online, dream sharing group boundaries of
behavior are not standardized and especially open to a wide
variance of unspoken expectations. Dreamwork flows between
the boundaries of therapy, spirituality, the occult,
personal growth, the arts and grassroots support groups.
Each of these large fields of behavior have their own sub-
sets of groups, each with their own values, goals and
expectations. Adding to this the multicultural differences
brought about by global communications multiplies the
variance an makes the task of developing clear and
accessible ethical guidelines ever more urgent.
What I would like to recommend here is that you as an
individual develop your own ethical statement, and then use
this when you join a group as a measure to decide if the
group is going to fit for you. If you would like help in
developing this personal statement, you are in luck, as many
people in the Association for the Study of Dreams have been
working on this process for sometime.
The Association for the Study of Dreams (ASD) is a non-
profit, international, multidisciplinary organization
dedicated to the pure and applied investigation of dreams
and dreaming. Their purposes are to promote an awareness
and appreciation of dreams in both professional and public
arenas; to encourage research into the nature, function, and
significance of
dreaming; to advance the application of the
study of dreams; and to provide a forum for the eclectic and
interdisciplinary exchange of ideas and information.
In 1997 the ASD Ethics Committee, Chaired by Carol Warner,
developed a dreamwork ethics statement that could be used as
a guide for weighing and evaluating the ethics of a dream
sharing venue or group. http://www.asdreams.org/ethics.htm
In 2000, Ed Kellogg provided a template which could be used
for other groups to develop similar ethical statements.
http://www.asdreams.org/dreamwork_ethics_template.htm
"We (or name of organization/website) celebrate the many
benefits of dreamwork, yet recognizes that there are
potential risks. We agree with the ethical position taken by
the Association for the Study of Dreams (link to ASDs
ethical statement page), in that we support an approach to
dreamwork and dream sharing that respects the dreamer's
dignity and integrity, and which recognizes the dreamer as
the decision-maker regarding the significance of the dream.
Systems of dreamwork that assign authority or knowledge of
the dream's meanings to someone other than the dreamer can
be misleading, incorrect, and harmful. Ethical dreamwork
helps the dreamer work with his/her own dream images,
feelings, and associations, and guides the dreamer to more
fully experience, appreciate, and understand the dream.
Every dream may have multiple meanings, and different
techniques may be reasonably employed to touch these
multiple layers of significance. A dreamer's decision to
share or discontinue sharing a dream should always be
respected and honored. The dreamer should be forewarned that
unexpected
issues or emotions may arise in the course of the dreamwork.
Information and mutual agreement about the degree of privacy
and confidentiality are essential ingredients in creating a
safe atmosphere for dream sharing.
Dreamwork outside a clinical setting is not a substitute for
psychotherapy, or other professional treatment, and should
not be used as such.
We recognize and respect that there are many valid and time-
honored dreamwork traditions. We invite and welcome the
participation of dreamers from all cultures. There are
social, cultural, and transpersonal aspects to dream
experience. In this statement we do not mean to imply that
the only valid approach to dreamwork focuses on the
dreamer's personal life. Our purpose is to honor and respect
the person of the dreamer as well as the dream itself,
regardless of how the relationship between the two may be
understood."
---------
The Electric Dreams used this template to create their own
statement below.
Note that the Electric Dreams community has several dream
sharing venues, some of which follow this guide and other
that don't. The DreamWheel, for example, follows the guides
very closely as it is an intimate sharing in a confidential
setting among peers. However, the Electric Dreams e-zine is
a free speech forum for dreams and dreamers, and thereby
allows a wider range of response that is less moderated and
guided by the ethics statement.
"Electric Dreams DreamWheel Dreamwork Ethics Statement"
The Electric Dreams community celebrates the many benefits
of dreamwork, yet recognizes that there are potential risks.
We agree with the ethical position taken by the Association
for the Study of Dreams (http://www.asdream.org), in that we
support an approach to dreamwork and dream sharing that
respects the dreamer's dignity and integrity, and which
recognizes the dreamer as the decision-maker regarding the
significance of the dream. Systems of dreamwork that assign
authority or knowledge of the dream's meanings to someone
other than the dreamer can be misleading, incorrect, and
harmful. Ethical dreamwork helps the dreamer work with
his/her own dream images, feelings, and associations, and
guides the dreamer to more fully experience, appreciate, and
understand the dream.
Every dream may have multiple meanings, and different
techniques may be reasonably employed to touch these
multiple layers of significance. A dreamer's decision to
share or discontinue sharing a dream should always be
respected and honored. The dreamer should be forewarned that
unexpected issues or emotions may arise in the course of the
dreamwork. Information and mutual agreement about the degree
of privacy and confidentiality are essential ingredients in
creating a safe atmosphere for dream sharing.
Dreamwork outside a clinical setting is not a substitute for
psychotherapy, or other professional treatment, and should
not be used as such.
We recognize and respect that there are many valid and time-
honored dreamwork traditions. We invite and welcome the
participation of dreamers from all cultures. There are
social, cultural, and transpersonal aspects to dream
experience. In this statement we do not mean to imply that
the only valid approach to dreamwork focuses on the
dreamer's personal life. Our purpose is to honor and respect
the person of the dreamer as well as the dream itself,
regardless of how the relationship between the two may be
understood.
The Electric Dreams Community, March 2000
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The DreamGate Course on the History of Dreams
Richard Catlett Wilkerson
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The DreamGate History of Dreams class online was originally
developed to deepen the level of dream sharing that could
take place online in the mid 1990's. It was part of a
larger DreamGate project, which included developing dream
networks through the Net via the Electric Dreams e-zine,
developing dream sharing groups via the DreamWheels, and
bringing dream organizations online.
The DreamWheel seemed the perfect vehicle for teaching
grassroots dreamwork online. People could join anonymously,
they could participate on their own time schedule and they
would be led by a moderator through some key moves that are
useful in any dream sharing venue. Yet some kind of depth
was missing, as if those new to the process picked up the
strokes very quickly, but were afraid to swim in deep waters
where ideas mutate beyond recognition and radically new
forms of interaction emerge. Since this was often a person's
first exposure to dreamwork, I didn't want to alter change
this process itself to force this kind of situation. Part
of this was due to the medium, sharing of text based dreams.
As Herbert, Olsen and Bosnak have all noted, the absence of
face-to-face, real-time connections that include voice tend
to favor reflective intuition over emotional processing.
Still, I felt that ideas, notions, concepts and images could
find more profound expression in the online dreamwork
process.
I had been very impressed with the idea behind Mircea
Eliade's _A History of Religious Ideas_ "For years I have
had in mind a short, concise work, which could be read in a
few days." (xv).(2) I wanted something similar for
dreamwork, a way for people to get in a very short time some
profoundly intense ways to work with dreams.
The second challenge was to make the course for a wide group
of people. Some people are interested in dreams for
psychological reasons, others for spiritual reasons, and
others for aesthetic and reasons of just plain curiosity.
Part of this was handled by offering a wide spectrum of
topics, but part of this was also handled by finding a
common difference, a thing that mattered to people in all
these disciplines. This key turned out to be personal
empowerment, becoming the authority of one's own processes.
Each of these lessons would hinge on finding in the theory
that particular set of techniques and ideas that allow a
person the freedom to create their own meaning in value in
relation with the world around them. The world would turn
out to be the cosmos that includes the dreamworld, the
waking world, the potential worlds and many, many other
worlds and their inhabitants. In all encounters, there seems
to be protocols that allow us to interact, and then
something that breaks through, an encounter with an Other at
a point of intensity where repetitive habits leave off and
new forms emerge.
Each dreamwork that affects us will have some of each. They
will have enough protocol and hand shaking to establish a
temporary field or territory, and enough
deterritorialization for the swarm of novel interactions to
emerge. In the primitive night, a circle will be drawn and
an autonomous field of dance will emerge from the DreamTime
and distribute hordes of multiple beings across the networks
of the earth. Freud will establish a whole host of
boundaries and confidentialities so that the free
associations can emerge from behind the taboos and
repressions. Jung will bring all the arts into play to allow
the most indefinable elements of the psyche to express
themselves in a field beyond what could have beforehand been
imagined. Mednard Boss will force us to continue facing the
surface until it becomes so intense that the prison door
melts and we learn that a dream image is not something we
have, but something that has us. Fritz Perls will keep
pushing, past the game playing, past the bull, past the
fear, to a center so hot it will fuse once disparate
fragments of psyche into a fully expressive being. Lucid
dreamers have learned this trick. With practice and focus,
the dreamer gives birth to him/herself in a temporary
autonomous zone of freedom. This improvised universe, or
Improverse, allows us the freedom to connect with new
worlds, build new relations and multiply their possibilities
to infinity.
Thus each module in the History of Dreams course is set up
to first establish a protocol of communication and
techniques related with that particular dreamwork theory,
and then to allow the dreamer to use his or her own dreams
to use the protocols find the breakthrough points. These
points will be different for everyone, and some protocols
will appeal to some and not others. What people break-
through *to* will be different as well. Protocols are
simply conventions, agreed upon codes, which allow networks
of relations to last long enough for a person to cross over
and enter into them. If I put my hand out to shake hands
with you, and you take my hand, chances are that we have
agreed upon a particular network of codes. We can go
different directions. We can leave it at that, like two
statesmen agreeing to contract which will have future
binding powers, or we may mutually use that time to connect
more personally, to break-through our distance and enter
into a temporary zone of friendship. Either way, we have
created a virtual reality, a field that is held together by
shared protocol. These shared fields empower us, enable us
to take actions within the limits of their range and scope
and relevancy.
I have also set the course up so that at some point, at many
points, it may become clear that the dream itself is its own
protocol and break-through to itself. All fields have this
double nature, the to-be-crossed and the place we crossed
to-get-to. Some will always see dreams as representations,
as referring to something else, be that a reference to how
to live one's life better, a reference to the state of one's
psyche, a message from God or the Unconscious on how behave,
or a image of the past or future. These are all parts of the
dream, but there is also the dream-in-itself. If I said to
my friend, "Hey, thanks for that cup of tea, now I'm going
to interpret you and why you gave it to me", then my friend
is likely to do more than raise an eyebrow. There is a kind
of intrusive offense at missing the point of teatime in
referring the special time and my friend who hosted it to be
only representatives of something else. Every protocol has
its own break-through, and when an intrusive break-through
is applied to a protocol, the field can collapse, the zone
disappears. This is not always a bad thing. Knowing how to
subvert repressive zones of protocol is as important to
empowerment as engendering connections with creative fields
of intensity. Still, there will always be the call to things
themselves. This is not always just play land. Rather, it's
more like how we move in an art gallery, from works of art
that represent things, to works of art which don't, or only
represent themselves. It's not always playful. Jackson
Pollock is often no less serious than Rembrandt, nor
Rembrandt at times less playful than Miro. This history of
representation in Art follows very closely the history of
dream interpretation. Early cave paintings and early dreams
were players in a mythic landscape of ensouled regions.
Kinship filiations and tribal alliances marked the body to
signal the flows of life and death. Biocosmic gods sent
messages through the art marks and through dreams. With the
rise of kings and pharaohs, the messages and marks on the
art began to refer only to these kings and the gods above
them. During the Renaissance they began referring to hu/man
him/herself, and in the renaissance of dreamwork (somewhat
later) dreams began referring to hu/man and the meaning of
his/her life and his/her objects. Finally, in modern art,
the representations finally give way to pure abstractions
that refer to nothing beyond themselves, and dreams to begin
to wrap their significations back around themselves.
Postmodern art finds itself in a predicament. From
representation of an Other to presentation of itself, the
theatre of dreams and art in the postmodern world seem
destined to be collages and replay and rehashing of previous
periods. Yet something novel emerges despite the seeming
appearance in the day residue of the past. At first we can
only see this out of the corner of our eyes. Our peripheral
vision can catch glimpses of this new world. It's not
something we can control, and so it's not something we can
represent. The grand stories that held the world together
have fallen apart and there is no single value system that
can rise up and cover the globe in harmony. Of course, there
never was, we all see this now. Each idea that we push past
its limit becomes a tyrant at the limit of its deployment.
Still we continue to paint, continue to dream. We have each
become responsible for that which used to be help up by
grand narratives. We are free from any particular
representation, but we haven't quite freed ourselves from
representation itself. Like a Zen student who casts off the
world of attachments and doesn't yet see this casting off is
an attachment in itself, the postmodern dreamworker
completes the world of representation by coming a full
circle and entering back into connection with them in a new
way, stopping for a moment having taken them in a full
breath, recording the possibilities and blowing them back
again across a new world which remain while the dream and
the real collide.
- Richard Wilkerson
http://www.dreamgate.com/class
This six week class is conducted online. Participants will
get a full survey of the history of dreams and dreamwork,
from ancient Thrace to Cyberspace. All are encouraged to
join the Electric Dreams DreamWheel as well. $29.95
Classes start at the first of each month.
Class Syllabus: History of Dreams
Module 1. Introduction and Basic Recall Skills: The Peer-
Relations Approach
---- Sign-up for online dream groups.
Module 2. Ancient Dreams: Messages from the Gods
Module 3. Sigmund Freud: The Dream-work of the Unconscious
Module 4. Carl Gustav Jung: Mythic Dreams and Wholeness
Module 5. Other Pre- 1960's Dream Theories (Adler, Boss,
Surrealists)
Module 6. Frederick (Fritz) Perls : Gestalt Dream
Techniques
Module 7. Mindell and Gendlin: The DreamBody
Module 8. From Couch to Culture: Grassroots & Modern
Dreamwork Movements
Module 9. Non-Interpretive Dreamwork: Lucid, Mutual,
Paranormal & Pro-active Dreaming
Module 10. Dream Science and Dreamwork: Friends or Foes?
Module 11. Dream Anthropology: How Culture Influences
Dreamwork
Module 12. Dreaming In Cyberspace: New Trends in Dream
Sharing on the Internet
Supplements:
o Freud's Dream-work - a model of primary process.
o Jung: Me and my shadow, Beyond and through the personal,
Jung and dreams.
o Dreams and Health: The Revival of Ancient Dream Healing in
Modern Medicine.
o Couch to Culture: Montague Ullman and Walter Bonime.
o Nightmares: New approaches and techniques.
o Dreams and Western Religions: An account of what happened.
References
(1) Wilkerson, Richard C. (1999). A Brief History of Dream
Sharing: Theory, Techniques and Practice. San Francisco, CA:
DreamGate.
(2) Eliade, Mircea (1978). A History of Religious Ideas.
Vol 1. Chicago, IL: University of Chicago Press. "Alas, that
short, concise book has not yet been written." xv
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
G L O B A L D R E A M I N G N E W S
November 2001
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
If you have news you'd like to share, contact Peggy Coats,
pcoats@dreamtree.com. Visit Global Dreaming News online at
http://www.dreamtree.com/News/global.htm.
This Month's Features:
NEWS
- New York Dream Group
RESEARCH & REQUESTS
- Dreams Surrounding 9-11 Needed
- World Trade Center Attack Dreams Sought
WEBSITE & ONLINE UPDATES
- 9-11 Collections & Surveys
- An Alternative to Dream Orthodoxy
- Revelatorium
- Luminous Dreams
DREAM CALENDAR for November 2001
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
N E W S
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>> New York Dream Group
For anyone in the New York City are, here is information on
a dream group Dreams provide guidance and reveal
opportunities for growth especially when needed most, such
as during periods of loss and transition. This group seeks
to create supportive
relationships among members and to help participants use
dreams to explore and discuss feelings related to a variety
of life issues.
* No prior experience working with dreams is required.
* Members will learn techniques, such as how to keep a dream
log, how to remember dreams upon waking or capture forgotten
dreams, and how to discover hidden meanings in
dreams.
Ann Goelitz, a certified social worker and dream work
practitioner with experience running this type of group,
will facilitate.
WHEN: Thursday evenings, 6:00 PM - 7:30 PM, November 1 -
December 13
WHERE: 330 W. 58th Street, Suite 503 (at Columbus Circle)
COST: $30 per session, $180 for all six sessions
HOW: Call Ann Goelitz at (212)561-1633 to register and/or
discuss group.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
R E S E A R C H & R E Q U E S T S
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>> Dreams Surrounding 9-11 Needed
Ernest Hartmann has been studying for many years the dreams
of people who have experienced a serious trauma. He
believes that all of us experienced a serious trauma on
September 11, 2001. Therefore he would be most grateful for
help from any of you who have been keeping a dream log or
regularly recording your dreams for some time, and who would
be willing to share some of them with him. If this
description fits you and you'd like to participate, what he
would need is a copy of your last ten dreams recorded before
9/11/01, and your first ten dreams starting the evening of
9/11/01. I need the dreams exactly as they are written. Do
not select particular dreams, omit dreams, or alter dreams
in any way (except to omit or change people's names if you
wish). Your dreams will be treated with complete respect
and confidentiality. For more information, please contact
Ernest Hartmann M.D., at EHDream@AOL.com.
>>>> World Trade Center Attack Dreams Sought
Marc Ian Barasch, author of Healing Dreams, is looking for
dreams pertaining to the World Trade Center attack,
particularly premonitory dreams that may have occurred prior
to the tragedy. Anyone interested in sharing a dream may
email him at healpath@aol.com
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
W E B S I T E & O N L I N E U P D A T E S
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
Do you know of interesting new websites you'd like to share
with others? Or do you have updates to existing pages? Help
spread the word by using the Electric Dreams DREAM-LINK page
www.dreamgate.com/dream/resources/online97.htm. This is
really a public projects board and requires that everyone
keep up his or her own link URLs and information. Make a
point to send changes to the links page to us.
>>>> 9-11 Collections and Surveys
The effects of the tragic attacks on New York have resonated
with many of us and are affecting our dreams. The following
list is an online survey of 9-11 related dream collections
and related materials:
ASD Bulletin Board
http://www.asdreams.org/subidxdiscussionsbboard.htm
Dream Tree Post-Attack Board
http://www.dreamtree.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi
Kelly Bulkeley, Ph.D Dream Survey and comment returns
http://www.kellybulkeley.com
DreamGate Collection for Electric Dreams - anonymous
Dreams and pre-cognitive dreams regarding and relating to
the 9-11 attacks
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/temple
Results of DreamGate in Electric Dreams:
http://www.dreamgate.com/electric-dreams
Select the October Issue
MSNBC Today Show Survey Have your dreams been affected by
the attack on America?
http://msnbc.com/news/638012.asp
World Trade Center Attack Dreams Sought
Marc Ian Barasch, author of Healing Dreams, is looking for
dreams pertaining to the World Trade Center attack,
particularly premonitory dreams that may have occurred prior
to the tragedy. Anyone interested in sharing a dream may
email him at healpath@aol.com
Electric Dreams, the online e-zine about dreams and
dreaming, has been collecting dreams about the 9-11 tragedy
at the following site:
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/temple
Dreams from this site are shared with researchers and
published on Electric Dreams. Please be very clear if you
want your name or e-mail included. By default, we remove
both and publish these dreams anonymously. -----------------
Kelly Bulkeley is collecting dreams of the 9-11 tragedy at
his site. Bulkeley's work gained national attention when his
research about the nightmares of Republicans and Democrats
circulated in Washington. You can participate in his study
at http://www.kellybulkeley.com
http://www.asdreams.org/nightmare.htm
Nightmares following a traumatic event are very common.
Whether they picture the traumatic event directly, or
involve other images and themes, or both, they probably
reflect a normal healing process, and will diminish in
frequency and intensity if recovery is progressing. If after
several weeks no change is noted, consultation with a
therapist is advisable. ASD is offering a selection of
articles that are helpful both for adults having nightmares
and for parents with children having nightmares.
>>>>> An Alternative to Dream Orthodoxy
http://www.fireflysun.com
Fireflysun.com, originally designed to promote the
psychology novel Fireflies in the Shadow of the Sun, has
expanded its mission to mobilize the opposition of Ph.D.
iconoclast J. Wyatt Ehrenfels to the professional culture
within psychology. Ehrenfels writes that in the interests
of a professional culture, the adequate exploration of
authentic psychological phenomena like dreams has been
subverted to an artificial and arbitrary class of values
like credentialism, careerism, materialism, and
doctrinarism. The abandonment of the "psych-" for the "-
ology" (and other business rules that preserve and promote a
professional persona) has been particularly detrimental to
the study of dreams, a phenomenon at the heart of our human
psyche. The erosion of this subject matter also results in
the professional abortion of the careers of those students
who are genuinely called to study the structure and dynamics
of the psyche (i.e., those students for whom a passion for
dreams or other natural phenomena indicates an inherent or
constitutional meshing). The web site details Ehrenfels's
own exploration of dreams and his criticisms of the
professional bias against dreaming and dream research by
modern academics and practitioners. Welcome to the tension
between calling andcareer, meaning and science, scholarship
and professionalism, nature and psychological law -- welcome
to fireflysun.com!
>>>> Revelatorium
www.revelatorium.com
>>>> Luminous Dreams
http://luminousdreams.blogspot.com
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
D R E A M C A L E N D A R
November 2001
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<<
Nov 10 in Danbury, CT
Creative Dream "Play Groups" for Adults. For more
information, contact 203-744-6823 or UKHypnosis@aol.com
Paperback book tour schedule for Marc Ian Barasch , author
of "Healing Dreams: Exploring the Dreams that can
Transform Your Life"
Nov 2 3 in Santa Fe, NM . Salt Institute
(lecture&workshop) (505) 954-4404
Nov 4 in Albuquerque, NM. Int'l Conf. on Science and
Consciousness (505) 474-0998
Nov 9-11 in Big Sur, CA. Esalen Institute (lecture and
workshop) (831)667-3000
Nov 14 in San Francisco, CA. Presidio Lecture (Institute of
NoeticSciences)
Nov 15-17 in Petaluma, CA. Seminar, Institute of Noetic
Sciences
Nov 18 in Chicago, IL. Whole Life Expo (workshop) (800)
2328828
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
New Series begins with dream-flow@egroup.com Digest #1
09/29/2000
This issue includes volume # 285 - #309
Hello and welcome to the DREAM SECTION of Electric Dreams.
This section is edited by Richard Wilkerson and the
DreamEditor, a software creation of Harry Bosma, author of
the Dream interpretation and journaling software "Alchera".
(homepage: http://mythwell.com)
Please note that we print these dreams as they come to us
and that means we do not correct the spelling. Some
dreamworkers find these spelling mistakes a great window on
the dream and dreamer.
The Electric Dreams DREAM SECTION includes dreams and
comments from the DREAM FLOW, a project to circulate dreams
in Cyberspace.
Many mail lists participate, including
dream-flow@lists.best.com
dreamstream@topical.com
DreamsRus@onelist.com
The Dream Sack http//www.deeplistening.org/ione
Usenet groups (too many to name, search DREAM)
If you would like to send in single dreams for the flow, you
can leave them at
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/temple
If you have a mail list or would like to contribute dreams
and comments on a regular basis, you can subscribe to the
dream-flow by sending an E-mail to
TO:
dream-flow-subscribe@egroups.com
You may get a note back to verify the subscription. Simply
hit the return or reply key and send the note back.
An Archive of dream-flow is available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/dream-flow@egroups.com/
Pre-November 2000:
http://www.mail-archive.com/dream-flow@lists.best.com/
Pre-November 1998
http://www.mail-archive.com/ed-core@lists.best.com/
Pre-April 1990
Use Electric Dreams Backissues
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-backissues
------------------------- BEGIN ---------------------------
[dream-flow] Digest Number 285
____________________________________________________________
There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. strange dreams
From: Anonymous
2. Re: Butterflies/Dates and hours
From: "kim" <babel
3. Dead Sea/ACPrien
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 09:54:54 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: strange dreams
Dream Title strange dreams
Date of Dream 11/09/01
Dream Hi dear, I dreamed Bill Clinton and
the first italian minister.Clinton was in holiday with is
wife to Italy and the first minister italian wore some
sunglasses very funny infact when I woke up I was still
laughing. By the way I'm italian.
My email: macolinaleeds@yahoo.it
Comments by Dreamer I didn't think about the morning
when I woke, but I felt quite different the afternoon when
I heard the news.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 14:35:25 -0700
From: "kim" <babel
Subject: Re: Butterflies/Dates and hours
It's odd, but for all the terror dreams I had before this
abomidable event, now I dreamed of huge butterflies, so
large and translucent that they didn;t seem real. The woman
friend in my dream was very agitated about everything during
the course of this dream, including the butterflies that
"someone had let in." Her spouse, on the other hand, was
cheerful and asked me to be ready at eight o'clock. I don;t
know for what. An odd appearance of dates and hours has been
strongly present in my latest dreams. The September 20th has
come up twice, with the same dream figures, i might add.
________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:05:19 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Dead Sea/ACPrien
Dream Title Dead Sea/ACPrien
Date of Dream 9/6/01, 5a.m.
Dream I am motionless on a dark,steely-
grey ocean.It is dead with no waves.The entire scene is
dark.I can barely see a shoreline in front of me, when I
turn there is another shoreline in
back of me.I feel caught in a vast sea of uncertainty.One
shoreline seems a tiny bit closer than the other. I make a
decision and swim for it.
Comments by Dreamer Dream came quick as a flash.Not the
usual going morning dream.I had no feeling of
connection,only a strong decision to go forward to distant
shore.
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 286
____________________________________________________________
There are 2 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. My Death
From: Anonymous
2. Beau Bridges (S.Ginsberg)
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:37:09 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: My Death
Dream Title My Death - Dking
Date of Dream 9/17/01 @ 6:00 am
Dream I dream that I went to purchase an
outfit at a boutique. When I gave the woman my credit
card, she ran it and then informed me that the card was
cancelled because of my death. They had receive a check for
my outstanding balance. She showed me the check and an
invite to the wake that was to be held, tonight, 8/14/01.
She also mention that a girlfriend of mine and I have
passed away, a week apart. (This girlfriend of mine died
last year in June). I went to the wake, I only recognize
one person and all the other people I did not recognize.
There was a casket but it was closed. The next morning, I
was going with my two sisters and a girlfriend (who I have
not seen in 10 years) to a makeup shoot. I was depressed
about this people thinking I was dead and all; I wanted to
discuss it with my sister, but she was caught up in the
makeup shoot. So, I left it alone and said I will tell her
later. Then, I woke up. **The conversation with my
sisters occurred! ! in another state. My girlfriend that
I recognized at the wake, the one that died last year and
the one that was with me and my sisters going to the makeup
shoot all live in the same state; which I now reside.
Comments by Dreamer The dream was unsettling to me. I
hope it was not a premonition informing me that I will be
passing soon.
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
Permission Comments That is fine.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:39:40 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Beau Bridges (S.Ginsberg)
Dream Title Beau Bridges (S.Ginsberg)
Date of Dream 9/12/01
Dream A very small dream fragment a few
days after the tragedy to our country and the devastation
to so many people:
No dialogue...just a close up of Beau Bridges. He looks
straight at me (the dreamer) then he's doing something with
his hands, below the camera's view. He comes up with an
open lipstick tube, and applies it (deftly) to his lips
without the use of a mirror. Then he smiles lightly, and
looks directly at me again, and smiles as if to say, "This
is really important, get it!"
Comments by Dreamer Beautiful bridges. That's what I
think we need now. Not the burning bridges that I fear.
Here is this masculine man, used to leading. He has power,
but he needs something else. When he applied the lipstick,
it was as if he knew that he now needs the feminine side in
order to be successful. He is glad to be able to use this
part of his power.
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 287
____________________________________________________________
There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Trying on the 40's/Calico Red
From: Anonymous
2. I had a dream about two scyscrapers.
From: Anonymous
3. Re: Beau Bridges (S.Ginsberg)
From: "P Ingerson" <pi
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:28:54 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Trying on the 40's/Calico Red
Dream Title Trying on the 40's/Calico Red
Date of Dream Sept. 18, 200l@ 1 am
Dream I am in my grandparent's old
apartment building in Seattle with some young women. We
are on a second level which is a very nice lounge/bar
trying on old vintage 40's style outfits. The young women
look stunning in them and I take their picture.
Comments by Dreamer When I woke up it was clear to me
that we are/will be "trying on" what it is like to be in a
major war such as WW II. It gave me a sinking feeling.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:43:23 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: I had a dream about two scyscrapers.
On Mon, 17 Sep 2001 02:59:56 +0100, in alt.dreams you wrote:
A few days before New York lost it's two front teeth I had
a dream about two skyscrapers. I remember about 5 to 10
percent of the dream. The content and the fact that it
was a significant and 'dramatic' thought provoking dream.
The content that I remember is that for some reason
(established in the parts of the dream I don't remember) I
had to meet someone on the top (roof. not top floor) of
one tower. I had previously been in the other tower (I
don't think they were the WTC because the tower I was in
before was taller than this one) I rushed around but for
some reason couldn't find a way to the top until I found a
lift. The problem is, it was a disabled lift (for
disabled people) I felt guilty but decided reluctantly to
use it. Significant things happened after that, none of
which I can remember.
A few days *after* New York lost it's two front teeth I
had a short dream about simply viewing the planes going
into the towers from a camera-type viewpoint. The
difference was that two planes went into each tower, that's
4 planes overall.
The reason why I post this is because I have never been in
a skyscraper in my life and have never dreamt about even
one (let alone two in one dream!) in my life until a few
days before the two most famous landmarks in America are
no more. I am not superstitious but it is worth noting
(and posting) isn't it?
It just occurred to me that IF (and that's a big if) the
first dream was a premonition, then maybe the reason I
had to get to the top of the tower to meet someone was to
warn them that it was about to be hit and that he should
warn everyone to get down. And maybe the reason why I had
just been in the other tower was because I had warned
someone there and that I knew *both* towers were in
trouble. And maybe the trouble I had getting to the top
signifies the fact that people above the plane impacts were
trapped.
Out of interest I had a thought on the day the tragedy
happened - why weren't there parachutes in the building?
It may sound silly but if you think about it makes sense
- bear in mind that in the world of safety you can never
be too careful and people usually are very careful. now,
when people see that it is perfectly safe and possible to
parachute from tall buildings, why didn't they put two
and two together and place parachutes (maybe in a
cupboard) on every floor of a skyscraper in the (unlikely)
event that the building catching fire and people above the
fire being trapped. (or that someone decides to fly a
plane into it, but who knew?)
I thought about that as soon as I saw the people waving
white sheets out of the windows of the WTC, I thought "If
only they had parachutes. if they were willing to jump
*without* them then surely they'd be willing to jump with
them".
So basically all you need to escape quickly from a doomed
building is a brick and a parachute. the brick to break
the permanently shut windows. I wonder if this will now
happen in skyscrapers? or is there some major flaw in my
logic which I have not spotted?
------------------------
My name it's Peter Lobley. If it is relevant I am from
Britain, I watched the events as they happened on TV (most
people were at work here so heard it on the radio or not at
all until afterwards) It was particularly surreal and
emotional to see the second tower fall because that happened
exactly as the camera was on it. I was also quite shocked
to see the apparent civilians cheering ecstatically in some
Middle east country. I have been shocked by the tv-news
twice in my whole life. Both in the past few weeks. The
first was when I saw people in Northern-Ireland throwing
stones and blast bombs at children going to school. The
second was the terrorist attacks on America . Both have
shown me what hate and ignorance can do. Both have made me
want to do something and be involved somehow.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 23:39:17 +0100
From: "P Ingerson" <pi
Subject: Re: Beau Bridges (S.Ginsberg)
----- Original Message ----- Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:39:40
-0700 Subject: Beau Bridges (S.Ginsberg) | | Dream Title
Beau Bridges (S.Ginsberg) | Date of Dream
9/12/01 | | No dialogue...just a close up of Beau Bridges.
He looks straight at me | (the dreamer) then he's doing
something with his hands, below the | camera's view. He
comes up with an open lipstick tube, and applies | it
(deftly) to his lips without the use of a mirror. Then he
smiles | lightly, and looks directly at me again, and smiles
as if to say, | "This is really important, get it!" | |
Comments by Dreamer Beautiful bridges. That's what I
think we | need now. Not the burning bridges that I fear.
Here is this masculine | man, used to leading. He has power,
but he needs something else. | When he applied the lipstick,
it was as if he knew that he now | needs the feminine side
in order to be successful. He is glad to be | able to use
this part of his power. |
That was inspiring and beautiful. Thank you for sharing it.
It probably also explains why I've had a couple of dreams
this past week about crossdressing. Now I wish I'd posted
them here, but it didn't seem worth recording dreams about
something so frivolous after so much tragedy it the world.
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 288
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There are 4 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Flying to the stars
From: Anonymous
2. Re: My Death
From: "kim" <babel
3. Dreams about 9-11 from dreambob
From: Anonymous
4. "The Death Factory"
From: Anonymous
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:19:51 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Flying to the stars
Dream Title Flying to the stars
Date of Dream 9/18/01
Dream Have had dreams of standing outside
and night, looking up at the sky and I start flying upwards
to the stars. Always wake up with a exhilarating and happy
feeling.
Comments by Dreamer Do not know. Have had this dream
about three times in the last 3 years.
____________________________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:48:22 -0700
From: "kim" <babel
Subject: Re: My Death
Dear DKing,
With all this talk about precogs it is certainly unsettling
to dream of our own deaths. This is the downside of the
legitimization we are giving and must give to the dream
which seems to "see" a future. I am certainly not qualified
to properly interpret your dream but would like to propose,
unprofessionally, that your girlfriend's death played into
this dream... I wonder if you've dreamed of her before and
in what context.. and how you feel about her dying in
relation to you and in general.
My mother dreamed of her mother, dead for 42 years, for the
first time in several decades. Could it be that this massive
grave in NY has opened up our pandora's boxes and we begin
to deal with our fears/attitudes towards dying. It struck me
that your death was substantiated by being unable to make
the purchase and through the denial of the credit card - you
were officially dead in your dream. Maybe the money issues
play a part here. Could it be that not only our fears of
death are called up from this horrific event but our fears
of financial instability as well, after all, this place in
NY represented monetary power and therefore
security..perhaps. k.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:15:41 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Dreams about 9-11 from dreambob
Some dreams from my dream journal that may relate to the
horrible events:
May 12-13, 01 Dream: "In France, two of us. Acting of a
war event"
(On Sept. 9th, my wife and I arrived in France to visit
relatives, and returned on Sept. 15th.)
Aug 30-31, 01 Dream: "I seem to be going to B's funeral or
wake. S is there, looking. I try to console him. Suddenly
it rains. Lightning bolts hit nearby...."
Then on Sept. 6-7, 01 Dream "I'm with some others at night,
traveling. We get to a place between two towns and watch a
lightning storm. The lightning is hitting some radio and TV
towers -- people exclaim. Finally the rain comes our way
and we go inside a building. Inside, we talk about it."
Here again, the image of lightning bolts appears, which is a
personal symbol of death. In this case, the lightning is
hitting radio and tv 'towers' -- I learn of the twin towers
collapse via the tv and radio.
I believe, but did not record in my last dream, that someone
says the words, "Nine, One One". When I awoke, I recalled
thinking that it was odd way to include "911" because it
wasn't about calling 911; rather it was simply 9, 1,1. As it
happened, Sept. 11 or 9-11 was the date of tragedies.
____________________________________________________________
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:34:40 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: "The Death Factory"
"The Death Factory" by Jill Gregory I had the following
dream September 10 night - morning of September 11, 2001:
I am in a death factory. It is a huge structure of cement
and wood many stories high. There is a huge fish like a
marlin or sailfish without its sail fins. This fish is alive
but hanging upside down from a giant hook somewhere up above
near the ceiling of the floor I'm on. The view of the
factory is like a cut away shot where I can see all of the
floors. There is a man in his thirties very serious and
intent. He holds with both hands a large iron hook with a
wood handle. The metal hook is shaped like an L laying on
its side. He has jabbed this hook into the belly of the fish
and jerks the hook with long strokes upward and then
downward - again and again. he is turning the vital organs
of the fish to pulp. He hopes that the fish will throw up,
in other words, be so injured that it vomits out its guts
through its mouth. But the fish does not vomit. It just
suffers silently with huge wide eyes staring. I wonder why
the man doesn't just shoot the fish with one bullet in the
forehead before torturing it. I telepathically ask him "Why
all of this needless suffering?" the man replies without
stopping what he is doing. He says to me matter of factly,
"This is how it is done." ___________ I awaken feeling
heaviness and concern. I tell my husband that I have had a
nightmare and it is a dream I want him to hear. I tell him
the dream. When I turn on the TV while still in bed, I see
the news and see what the dream was about.
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 289
____________________________________________________________
There is 1 message in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. The High Value Glass House, Visible and Vulnerable
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 11:04:38 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: The High Value Glass House, Visible and Vulnerable
Dream Title The High Value Glass House, Visible
and Vulnerable Art Decko
Date of Dream July 9, 2001
Dream Last night I had two dreams. One
image...was that of a "corner house". We came upon a house
in a rural part of my home town that was two stories, all
glass. It had maybe 25 square feet of floor space. Two
walls were at a right angle to each other and the third was
a quarter circle. It almost looked like a tollbooth or
something. But it was a "corner house" all right! I
realized the joke in the dream.....As I lay in that sort of
waking state I asked myself what this might mean and the
notion of a corner house being more valuable, more desirable
and especially the part about it being high visibility hit
home. The "glass houses" part lent itself to a certain
vulnerability too. In the dream I remember thinking that
I'd have to have drapes for the entire house and even then
if someone was passing through the woods at night, I
wouldn't feel like I had entire privacy.
Comments by Dreamer The pun in the dream about the
house being shaped like a corner, being a "corner house",
made me laugh when I woke up. It could have been a
tollbooth but there was no window to take the toll.
Typically I transcribe my dreams as soon as I wake up.
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
Permission Comments
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 290
____________________________________________________________
There is 1 message in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. baby , free spirit
From: Anonymous
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 14:52:14 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: baby , free spirit
Dream Title baby , free spirit
Date of Dream 2000
Dream I dreamt that I gave birth inside a
hallway of an apartment building, but the apartment
building was underground and I caught the baby myself, I
was alone there. It felt so impowering. I went to the
hospital with the baby because the placenta did not come out
after the birth of the baby. It came out at the hospital
and we were fine. We then went home.
Comments by Dreamer I was pregnant at the time I am a
midwife
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[dream-flow] Digest Number 291
____________________________________________________________
There is 1 message in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. two- headed snake
From: Anonymous
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:55:53 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: two- headed snake
Dream Title two- headed snake
Date of Dream 22/23.september
Dream I dreamed a two- headed snake who
my boyfriend had killed in front of me.
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[dream-flow] Digest Number 292
____________________________________________________________
There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. September 11 Victim/Metronome
From: Anonymous
2. Re: September 11 Victim/Metronome
From: "kim" <babel
3. My Dream
From: brakjack
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 00:51:02 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: September 11 Victim/Metronome
Dream Title September 11 Victim/Metronome
Date of Dream September 11, 2001/About 6 A.M. EDT
Dream Before I awakened the morning of
September 11, 2001, I dreamed that I was waiting for a bus,
when suddenly I decided to look up the phone number of a
friend. (The last time I had dreamed of her was exactly
three months earlier, June 11, when I dreamed that we were
discussing the song "Only Time" by Enya.) I walked back
to the bus kiosk where a phone book was located and opened
the book. However, before I could find her name, the bus
came. I had to make a choice between finding her name and
missing the bus or putting the book down and catching the
bus. I chose the latter option.
A few hours later, the madness began. The next day,
September 12, I found that one of the victims of the
Pentagon crash was the friend I had dreamed about on
September 11.
Comments by Dreamer The victim was the sweetest person
I've ever met. The timing of the dream is very reassuring
to me because I feel I was given a sign that she was about
to depart.
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
Permission Comments Interpretations of the dream are
welcomed
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:39:40 -0700
From: "kim" <babel
Subject: Re: September 11 Victim/Metronome
Condolences for the loss of your friend. How brave you are
to see the "light" in this dream.
kim
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:12:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: brakjack
Subject: My Dream
I had a dream / Vision the night before the attack. I had a
vision of the "Presidential Emblem."
I had a dream the U.S. Was under Nuclear "Attack". I
remember running for shelter and hearing an announcement
that "The World would cease to exist, but we should not
worry the government had prepared for this and the world
shall be revived." I remember hearing the year "1975." After
the Announcement light faded and then I woke up. It was
2:00am at the time and after that dream I had problems
falling back asleep feeling uneasy, for some reason I turned
on the TV looking to see if there was any breaking news,
when there was none I fell back asleep, but when I woke pup
again I was told we were under attack.
What are your comments on this dream?
[This message contained attachments]
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[dream-flow] Digest Number 293
____________________________________________________________
There are 4 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Agent at Gate 11
From: Anonymous
2. Torn building and animals
From: Anonymous
3. The Dream September 25, 2001
From: Anonymous
4. Every where I go
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:58:12 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Agent at Gate 11
On September 11, I was attending a meeting at the Embassy
Suites, only a few blocks from the World Trade Center. I
witnessed many of the atrocities first hand that day.
Since then, I've had numerous dreams related to that day.
In one, I am at an airport. I'm working undercover for the
government, pretending to be a terrorist. I'm terrified
throughout this dream that I will be discovered by these
terrorists for what I am. I remember looking for gate I11
at this airport. This gate comes up several times during
this dream. I finally find this gate, at which point I
woke up crying. It was a very disturbing dream.
The I11 really disturbed me, although at first I did not
understand it's significance. Then I realized it! I is
the 9th letter of the alphabet. September is the 9th month
of the year. I11 = September 11.
I had this dream a couple of nights after the WTC tragedy.
Thanks, Albie Curcio New York, NY
You have my permission to be published with my name
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:59:36 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Torn building and animals
Dream Title Torn building and animals
Date of Dream 09/25/2001 08:00am
Dream In the dream I'm driving alone in a
car. All the buildings around me are torn and crumbling
down as I drive through the area. As I continue I see piles
of rubble and then see a small pile in front of me move, I
swerve away and look down to see small white kittens like 3
or 4 of them all huddle together. I slow down but continue
and as I continue I consider picking up the kittens before
they are hurt. I'm about 30-40 feet away when I see several
large black dogs(like bull mastiffs) all together. Instead
of turning the car around I decide to get out of the car
and go back to where the kittens are to get them.The dogs
are behind me, as I'm walking back to the kittens the dogs
start to get restless and start a low whinning growl. I'm
about 10 feet from the kittens and realize the dogs don't
want me to go to them (as if warning me that I'm in danger)I
turn around and start back to the car and then the dogs
immediately start to relax and jump around me and run like
they are playing. I then woke up.
Comments by Dreamer This is a day after listening on TV
about people worried about the pets left homeless or
abandon by the tragedy in NY.
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
Permission Comments
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:00:37 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: The Dream September 25, 2001
Dream Title The Dream September 25, 2001
Date of Dream The Dream September 25, 2001
Dream The world was no longer bright and
colored. The only essence of feeling was the cold gray
darkness. There were very little people left to live here.
There must have been a huge flood I believe. The shortage
of food left people with very little options; either you eat
nothing or you eat tasteless food. But either way you were
sure there wasn't a lot. I went into town to investigate
for myself and my friends brought me back to their house.
They were hospitable in offering what they had, which was
almost nothing. My mother came to join us momentarily after
I arrived there. The food that was prepared had no flavor.
It wasn't the same. I went into the neighbors yard, and I
noticed that there was a collection of chickens and
rabbits. I snatched up one of each. Heroic I thought now I
had found something real to eat, I attempted to kill them.
But I was unsuccessful. They wouldn't die. I still brought
them back to the house, they were merely injured. My
friends became very puzzled; they thought they had lost a
sense of time. They had assumed the gap of time was
extreme. I set out for the city myself. To conduct any
remote experiment at all. I found everyone's negative
attitude towards my discoveries was not forgotten. I
discovered how to make real food. There was electricity but
no light, no real light. I created that as well. My
findings were disregarded. I was turned down. But I
returned to my friends that same day. To find my mother was
still in the same chair, laid out and relaxed. No one was
convinced of the powers of creation I possessed. I asked for
the sun to bless my mother " may the bright shining sun
illuminate on my mothers face" and from then on the sky
beamed bright rays that glowed and reflected only upon her.
From that moment on, my powers of creation were exposed, and
people believed just as I, the world needs to be a different
place.
Comments by Dreamer I'm not sure what this all means
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
Permission Comments I welcome anyone that has info
____________________________________________________________
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:27:34 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Every where I go
Dream Title Every where I go
Date of Dream 9-25-01/8:03P.M.
Dream I use to like a boy at my school at
the end of last year. During summer I forgot about him.Now
that school starts I see him every where I go.Two days
before school started I saw him in New York State. That's
really far away from where we go to school. I see him on my
bus in school and on top of that in my dreams. I think I am
starting to like him again. One of my dreams I saw him
walking up my block and he cut his hair real short and I
was on the other side of the block but he didn't see
me.Another one was when we were walking and talking and he
gave me a hug. I've more dreams of him but I don't remember
the rest. My friends say it means we are meant to be. I
can't get him out of my mind.Early this morning I had I
dream about him.
Comments by Dreamer The dream relates to my life
because I still have a crush on him. I makes no sense to me
please tell me what it means.
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
Permission Comments I just want to know if others can
help me out.
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 294
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There are 8 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Every where I go
From: "kim" <babel
2. Re: The Dream September 25, 2001
From: "kim" <babel
3. moving
From: Anonymous
4. Attack on America
From: Anonymous
5. Black Flies by Fay
From: Anonymous
6. Apocalypse: Seeking Refuge From Ice Monsters
Stories High
From: Anonymous
7. i dont get this???
From: Anonymous
8. Currents
From: Anonymous
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____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:42:53 -0700
From: "kim" <babel
Subject: Re: Every where I go
what do you think it is about this boy that you like/admire?
which of his characteristics, on the other hand, put you
off? Why aren't you with him? k.
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____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:48:40 -0700
From: "kim" <babel
Subject: Re: The Dream September 25, 2001
Besides the fact that this could be a precognitive dream or
a mere expression of the fear everyone has right now of a
chemical hit on the US - "wiping out the colors and making
food tastless and scarce". Do you think that it is a
dreaming effort to feel control in an uncontrollable
situation. You can make the sun shine on your mother - an
amazing image and power! Is your mother unhappy now, in
waking life? k.
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:42:33 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: moving
Dream Title moving
Date of Dream 9/23/01
Dream im a senior now and in my dream i
just started school and i had to move to california, i was
so upset b/c i would not see any of my freinds or my crush,
i tried to move in with some my realtives but my mom would
not let me nor would she let me move in with my freind
Comments by Dreamer i dont know how it relate o my life
i was hoping i could find out if u know email me
lauren9884@aol.com
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
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____________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:25:41 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Attack on America
Dream Title Attack on America
Date of Dream 9/11/01 2:00 am
Dream I had a Vision / Dream the night
before the attack. I had a vision of the Presidental
Emblem. I had a dream the the U.S. Was under Nuclear
Attack. We all ran for a shelter and I remeber an anounmnet
about it, "The world would cease to exsist, don't worry the
government has measures set in place to prepare for this,
and the world shall be revived" I remember the year 1975
was mentioned. we were running for the shelter, and then
light faded, that's when I woke up. I woke up with a bad
feeling not being able to go back to sleep I turned on the
TV loking for breaking news. But it was early yet so I went
back to sleep. When I woke up I was told about the attack
Comments by Dreamer The Attacks in Washington DC and
New York
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
Permission Comments Please feel free to share this
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:33:18 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Black Flies by Fay
Dream Title Black Flies by Fay
Date of Dream June 24th, 2001 sometime at night
Dream Initially I am in a movie theater.
I have gone with some friends who have begged me to "get
out". I have apparently been "holed up" in a tiny room,
sparsely decorated in which there are piles and stacks of
papers and books all over. I have been diligently and
frantically researching something. My friends think I'm
depressed and perhaps have gone over the deep edge. I can't
seem to make them understand that something bad is going to
happen on a global scale and I know it will be the "end of
life as we know it" Big changes for the worse. Thousands
will die at the hands of others. I am sad for the earth and
it's people.
At the movie theater, as I am making my way to the door to
sit down, I am approached by an older man. He tells me to
go in and bring the "2 young girls out." I am wondering to
myself, why is he asking me? Why doen't he do it? I don't
know these girls. I go into the theater, whisper to the
girls that they need to leave. One of them begin to talk
about my daughter's pregnancy and how she is doing.AS we
are standing in lobby, 2 older women are bearing down on
me,and it is obvious they are very angry and upset. One of
the women is quite verbal and aggressive- in my face while
the other is quiet. They are challenging my right to "kick
their "girls" out of the theater. I try to explain that it
is not me, that I am just the messenger. They slowly begin
to calm.
The next scene is going into restroom of theater. On the
door to the restroom is a large, ugly black fly and it is
quickly joined by another. I have a sick, sinking feeling
in the pit of my stomach. We open the door and go in and as
I glance around I see a group of 5 black flies (not as large
as the first 2) on the first wall, a group of 5 black flies
on the second wall, a group of 4 black flies and 3rd wall
and another group of 4 black flies on 4th wall. I feel a
sense of dread and confusion. Look at that, I say to the
others. "They are just flies" one of them says. "But don't
you think it's odd, just look at them closely. Why are they
here? It not even the right temperature for them."
The next scene is one of a wall of black and my mind says
"fly". The wall of black is moving. People are screaming
all around me. People are falling "from the sky?" Mass
confusion. People standing frozen in disbelief. "Run, I
scream, NOW! Many are running but others seem to be rooted,
unable to run, much like a deer caught in the headlights of
a car.
Next, I am in a foreighn country. People are talking around
me with heavy accents, Germany. Then the words Arnold
Schwartzneger appear from somewhere.
Next scene different foreign country, Middle Eastern
accents. People are talking in the street. I notice several
black flies buzzing around. A child screams. I notice more
and more flies in the background and then I hear a low
buzz-hum noise. I turn and look and I see a moving wall of
back-flies coming towards us. "Move, I scream- get to your
houses. Seal the doors, the windows, everything!" I look to
the horizon and I see buses (some grey and some muddy
green-brown, a little smaller than school buses) in single
file as far as the eye can see. Leaning out of each open
window is a soldier with a long machine gun aimed at the
people on the street. Most appear to be young men around my
sons age (20). I know this is the beginning and I must stay
calm and focused on my task, which is to try to get at least
some safely through this. The soldiers are herding us onto
the buses (There are hundreds of thousands of people and I
wonder to myself, Where did all these people come from?)We
a! ! re roughly pushed to the back of a bus and forced to
sit (the seats are red) while the soldiers are standing in
the aisles, guarding us. They hit people who are crying or
talking too loudly with the butts of their guns. I begin to
look at a photograph of a snowcovered mountainside I have
with me, when a soldier grabs the picture from me. He
points to it and looks at me to explain. As I am talking, I
notice his body language soften and relax and soon we are
talking about his family and his country. His accent is not
Middle Eastern like the others. He tells me "I am Nicholas".
Next scene is in a huge train station like Grand Central
Station. There are lots of people and they are being
seperated into groups, questioned and photographed. I do
not want to be in these photos as I know they will be
broadcast globally and if my family sees me they will know I
am dead or wil be dead.
In the next scene we are on a train in a small room (same
group I was with in the station). There is much panic and
confusion and again I know I must keep everyone calm. I
know we will be provided a means of escape. Suddenly the
door opens and Nicholas is standing there. He is no longer
in uniform but is wearing red cossack pants and a white
shirt. He states "I will help." I think to myself, this is
too bizarre getting help from him. He pushes us into the
hallway of the train and quickly into another room. On the
bed in the room, hovering above the bedspread are 2 groups
of orbs with 6 orbs in each group. They are colored, one
ebony, one jade, one red, etc. and are about the size of
very large marbles. Suddenly one group of 6 rises into the
air and begin to fly around. Everyone in the room is staring
in amazment. I pick up the remaining group of 6 and the
hover above my palms. The room is suddenly filled with
intense white light and a feeling of warmth and
unconditional love floods my body, and I know that these
orbs hold the answer to our freedom. No one else in the
room appears to see or feel this as they are all still
talking about the flying orbs in the room.
End
Comments by Dreamer Needless to say, this dream
affected me as no other I have had. I awoke, shaking and
crying. Explained to my husband that something really bad
was going to happen, globally and our lives would never be
the same. The next thought that came to my mind was "write
it all down", which I did. Over the next 3- 4 weeks the
horror began to fade as I got back to my daily routine,
only to be renewed when on Tues. Sept. 11th my husband
called about 8:30 AM and said turn on the television. I
watched as did the rest of the country in horror at the
events unfolding and listened to the very words being
uttered from my previous dream. One man described the "wall
of black" that he tried to flee from (smoke and debris from
the collapse). Over and over I heard the words, "life as we
know it is changed" "life as we know it will never be the
same" etc.
I have shared this dream with only a select few, for fear
others would think I was nuts or seeking some type of
attention. I assure you, neither is true. I only share this
now because the dreams have continued after the tragedy and
I feel I am continuing to get information of a sort and am
at a loss as to what to do with it.
Of note is that at the beginning of May I dreamed that New
York was hit with an "earthquake" and I saw the buildings
collapsing and the streets as they were on the broadcasts
so many of us have seen.
I have found the picture of the mountain in my dream. It is
of the Kubal mountains in Afghanistan.
I believe Nicolas represents help from Russia.
The groups of "flies" 5,5,4 and 4 are the numbers of
hijackers aboard the planes.
When I expressed to my husband why I did not see the planes
in the dream, only the wall of black, he stared and said
think of the word "Fly". Airplanes "fly".
I would like to thank you for the opportunity to share this
information and would appreciate any information or input.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:35:48 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Apocalypse: Seeking Refuge From Ice Monsters
Stories High
On Thursday, September 20, 19101 at 00:13:59, the following
data was submitted from
Dream Title Apocalypse: Seeking Refuge From Ice
Monsters Stories High Art Decko Date of Dream
July 3, 2001 Dream Dreamt all night about
a group of us, mostly younger people, in an apocalyptic
scenario, but not as apocalyptic as most dreams, and not
scary, just eerie. There were a variety of threats,
monsters, mostly vague. Most memorable were the giant long
thin "ice monsters", stories high, roaming through meadows.
They came one at a time. There wasn't any moment of direct
danger; we just saw them in the distance. We were in a city
and had taken shelter in a building that was kind of
hollowed out.....We hit the road, wound up in some subway
like place. Trying to keep everyone together was, well, I
could never tell if we'd lost someone along the way.
Comments by Dreamer If this was a premonition, the "ice
monsters" stories high were a good dream metaphor for glass
skyscrapers. It particularly makes me think of the
shattering glass cascading down onto the people on the
street. Green meadows, I usually think of the song, "it's so
peaceful in the country". Permission to Comment
yes_share_comments Permission Comments
____________________________________________________________
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 15:53:34 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: i dont get this???
Dream Title i dont get this???
Date of Dream every couple weeks since like april
Dream I'm in Spanish class, and its
freetime at the end so my friends and I are all standing by
the window, and I sit down on the sill, and I'm laughing
and talking and I decide it might be fun to jump out the
window. i jump, but when i hit the ground i die. the next
thing i know all my friends are standing around me in a
circle laughing even though they know i'm dead.
Comments by Dreamer please interpret it? i have no idea
how it relates to my life.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:19:52 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Currents
Dream Title Currents
Date of Dream 09/24/01
Dream I was standing on the deck of a
warship while it maneuvered through narrow channels
lined by icebergs. Passing by were hundreds of soldiers in
boats and on rafts, all moving
with the current towards some final destination. There were
people in civilian clothing
intermingled and I saw an impression of a large black horse
on one wooden raft. From
what I recall, they were mostly men. All of them were
looking ahead in the direction they
were moving and were very solemn, determined.
Comments by Dreamer I dreamt this the night after I was
passing by a tv while the news showed a picture of an
American ship plunging through grey, cold appearing water,
while the newscaster spoke of US patrols in response to the
9/11/01 terrorist attack. The picture left quite an
impression on me, and I think my dream reflects that.
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 295
____________________________________________________________
There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Rachel's dream Take two
From: "Manuela Gonzaga" <manuelag
2. magic sea
From: Anonymous
3. untitled
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:15:40 +0100
From: "Manuela Gonzaga" <manuelag
Subject: Rachel's dream Take two
Hello Phyllis: You completly right. Thanks for your advice.
Weel, I'll manage to tell it in a softler way, not to hurt,
wich was not my intention. I'm leaving this Wednesday and
I'm caming back 10 days after. We are going to Cabo Verde,
for the sun and some lobsters, and music and nothing to
care. Thanks for your support! Manuela
Dear Rachel:
As I'm very sensitive to places, I was touched by that
feeling of loosing control of that realm of yours wich, in
the dream, appears like your home.
I had several houses, cause I'vbe travelled quite a lot. So,
I've develloped a sense of running away if it's necessary.
But sometimes running way is no ansewr and leads us to
nowhere. In that case, if it was my dream, I would feel like
I was in a hurge to build myself a new "safe place". Even
without moving.
I would feel also, that may be I could have ginven up mine
(safe place), letting familiar "strangers" invading my
sanctuary and destroying it. May be you have been devoting
youself so much towards others that you are now feeling that
they didn't respect your own borders. That your inner realm,
your secret garden, your sanctuary, means nothing to others.
I would feel, or think, also, that same part of myself
performing in the traces of my husband, would go on fixing
unimportant details, and doing little nothing.
I would think, also, taht the people around me, my house,
would not noticing my fears and angry, because nobody told
them how hurt I was. Anyhow I must have allowed them to put
myself in a chaos. Or, I would felt obliged to let them
acting that way.
If it was my dream, I would consider angry as a good advice
of an inner energy that is there for helping. Angry can
force or lead us to react. To fight against or for.
If it was my dream, I think I would consider to wake up, and
take notice of the advertisment, cause nobody, in the dream,
looks really bad caracther. They are only distressed. So,
time to regain your realm, and to let the others know your
borders. Wich I'm sure they will, unless you don't tell
them. Wish you well. Manuela
Rachel's dream: "Moving Furniture & Losing My Office"
My husband's parents are coming to stay with us, and
bringing with them an adolescent boy (about 13 years old).
Instead of putting up the extra bed that we have stored in a
closet, Tom (my husband) starts rearranging furniture.
He sets it up so that the (guest) boy is in Jak's (my 3-
year-old) bed, but Ryan (my 1-year-old) is still in his
crib. He moves our bed so that it is end to end with our
guest bed, so that we will be foot-to-foot with his parents.
Apparently he thinks I'm going to sleep in the same bed as
his parents... Jak is off in a room by himself.
In addition to moving beds, he is also moving bookcases,
shelves, dressers & desks. Everything is totally chaotic.
I can't find my office anymore. Or maybe there's a bed in
it. I can't find my desk!
The last thing I remember doing before discovering the
chaos, was that Tom and the boy were helping me move some of
my mother's files into my office. While I was looking
through them (the files), they moved everything else.
When I went out to see how everyone was settling in, I
discovered the chaos and panicked. So I retreated to my
office (or tried to). But by that time, it had disappeared.
I couldn't find my desk - my sanctuary! And I was
crazy/mad!
I yelled at him that he had to put everything back the way
it was and told him "don't you ever move furniture without
checking in with me first!"
As they were trying to put everything back (my dad showed up
to help), things were getting spilled and not going back in
the right places. It had gotten too messed up to put right.
I still couldn't find my desk. I woke up feeling panicky
and angry and crazy.
[This message contained attachments]
____________________________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:34:42 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: magic sea
Dream Title magic sea jenny
Date of Dream 9/28/01 during the night
Dream I lived in this house near the
ocean. So one day me and my brother go swimmin in it. The
water was different metallic colors in every spot. And
hundreds of sea horses swam towards me. They followed me
everywhere I went and would light up. Then I went to the
bottom of the ocean....which wasn't very deep and cupped my
hands together. Hundreds of seahorses swam into my palms
and made a giant glowing ball then swam out.
Comments by Dreamer dunno but if anyone does know what
this means please email me geminikitty@angelfire.com
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:35:42 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: untitled
Dream Title untitled
Date of Dream
Dream one night i was dreaming i was at
my old middle school ( i go to college now and this was
recent) and i was in my old history class and i was walking
around helping students, and this man kinda like spanish
lookin guy from spain or some thing.. and he called me back
to him and asked me to follow him in to the back room of
the class... i did and there were some students in there
and it was like he was oblivious to him.. and he said " i
am lucifer, satan... i am giving yo one more chance to turn
your life around if not your sould will belong to me. look
on the chart below.. and you will see your name.. along
with many others..." i looked and all i could see was two
names.. all the others were blurred.. the other name that
was on there besides mine, was lucian... after i read the
names i went back into the class room and then i woke up...
now later i went to a home coming dance that yr that i had
that dream and i met a guy named lucian... and it was
freaky... i told him about my dream.. and he was shocked.
then a yr later... i went to stay the night ant one of my
frineds house... and i had fallen asleep on the floor in
her bed room cuz i was playin w/ the dog and was trying to
calm down and like i had a dream it was my wedding and i
was walking down the aisle when the same man called out my
name and said... " I AM SATAN!!! I WARNED YOU AND NOW YOUR
SOUL BELONGS TO ME!!!" and shot me. then i woke up....
very freaky Comments by Dreamer Permission to Comment
yes_share_comments Permission Comments please post my
e-mail addy i would like to know if any one has had any
thing related to some thing like that
( editors note: email not given)
---------------------
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 296
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There are 5 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Same Nightmare Different Pictures
From: Anonymous
2. The day before--Smylee
From: Anonymous
3. 6 dreams about 9-11
From: Anonymous
4. Heather's Vampires
From: Anonymous
5. Yalith
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 11:20:47 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Same Nightmare Different Pictures
Dream Title Same Nightmare Different Pictures -
TONI
Date of Dream Sunday, September 2nd, 2001. 4.30am
Australia time.
Dream My Nightmare - I dreamt this at
4.30 am Australia time, Sunday, September 2nd, 2001
I felt as though I were in water - maybe a river, I couldn't
be sure. There was a young boy in trouble, I felt as though
he were going to drown. There was a man with short dark
hair, dark eyes, olive skin and unshaven, he was in the
water. I could feel the man wanted to hurt the boy - the man
wanted the boy to die. I swam to the boy very very fast and
pushed him over to the edge of the river bank, but at the
edge there wasn't dirt or mud, rather there was a very high
cement wall. In the center of the cement wall was a ladder
leading up, I pushed the boy over to the ladder as the man
came closer and after the boy started to climb up the
ladder I turned and looked at the man and he died. There
was an explosion and it came from some central point inside
the man and it was as if there was a bomb inside him and he
just blew up - exploded. I climbed up the ladder and
realised all these people were making their way to higher
ground, running to somewhere that was safe, among these
people were faces I knew.
There were people of many different nationalities. I had a
feeling of urgency to get to higher ground. Everyone was
moving to higher ground and safety. When I reached the top
of a hill I was standing at a place which seemed like a big
grassy field and I was surrounded by buildings all around
me. Whilst standing there I suddenly noticed I couldn't see
anymore people, it was very eerie and quiet and still, I
felt a feeling of puzzlement, where I stood was very
beautiful and although I felt a kind of peace feeling
inside I knew I had to keep moving. The next thing I
realized I was inside a building, it felt like a house or a
big open-air country guest house. I couldn't see my
daughter but could feel her presence somewhere over to my
left hand side. I saw my ex-husband, he walked out from a
room into a hall and I spoke to him. I asked him if he had
seen my younger sister and he said 'she has gone ahead'. I
told him that I had just spoken with her and she was still
here. He said 'no, she's gone ahead'. We turned to the
right, walked down the hall to the landing outside the back
verandah of the house where I live now. When standing out
there I looked up to the clear blue sky and saw what looked
like a ball of fire / meteor burst through the earths
atmosphere, as it burst through I heard a loud crack that
echoed out across the whole planet. This ball of
fire/meteor sped toward the earth and I saw it hit over
near the east coast. I then saw another one and heard the
same loud crack noise which was almost deafening. I watched
as this second ball of fire/meteor impacted right beside
the first one but a little south of it. Then I saw a third
ball of fire/meteor race toward the earth and as I watched
this I realised it was not heading in the same direction as
the first two and I was screaming in my head while I
watched all this happening "oh no, dear God, please please
please don't let this happen".
I saw it hit a very large body of water some distance away
to the west but a little south. When this hit I saw an
enormous mushroom rise up from the earth toward the sky and
the water rose up thousands of feet and it spread out over
the earth in all directions covering mles. As I stood there
and watched the flooding water moving toward me I knew this
wasn't happening to me it was happening to the whole
planet, it was a global feeling. I stood in a circle
holding hands with my ex-husband and my daughter and we
watched as it came closer devouring everything in its path
- I thought of material things I owned then buildings and
cars, then people, acquaintances, work mates, friends,
family, people I loved. I felt death coming. I felt death
coming, it was so enormous I could notcomprehend how large.
I felt helpless. I looked up at the sky and although I did
not see them, I had a knowing that there were two more
fireballs/meteors. I had a feeling about these other two
fireballs/meteors that they were different somehow. I
knew/heard? (heard in my head) the word 'diversion' -
somehow I felt 'diversion/distraction/interception'?. I
didn't understand this because although I knew the other
two fireballs/meteors were there, I could not see them, I
could not hear the crack noise, but they were there - I felt
them. I looked back at the water coming and could still
see the huge mushroom in the sky, I felt an overwhelming
hysterical panic. As I stood in a circle holding hands, my
daughter on my left, my ex-husband on my right, I looked at
him searching his eyes for something, he said there's
nothing we can do". I felt the physical material attachment
to everything and everyone drop away. I felt the fear and
panic leave me.
I felt a stillness. I felt something like a wave wash over
us. It was not a wave of water - it was a wave of
protection and safety and comfort. I felt a sense of order
and a feeling of very very deep peace like I've never known
before. Seconds later we were hit. I woke up crying. (The
moment I saw the live news broadcast from the USA - I knew
- same nightmare, different pictures.
Seconds later my phone rang, it was my friend from the
USA.)
Comments by Dreamer I don't know how it relates to my
life.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 12:35:45 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: The day before--Smylee
Dream Title The day before--Smylee
Date of Dream 9/10 or 9/11
Dream The night before the 9/11 attacks I
dreamed I was in a large plane. For some reason the plane
started heading for a crash landing in the ocean. We hit
the water and everything closed in around me. I was
suffocating in the water and fireballs were all around. I
could not breathe. From below me a diver swam up grabbed me
and started heading up. It seemed to take forever because
of all the kelp that was in the way. Finally we surfaced
and I took a huge breath of air. I didn't wake up; I just
went on to another dream.
Comments by Dreamer I haven't traveled recently nor do
I have any plans to. Normally I sleep with the radio or TV
on, but for some reason it was bothering me so I turned it
off. I was on my way to work by 6AM PST and I started
hearing the events unfolding. When I got to work I called my
mother and she turned on the TV. I was online and she was
updating me as it happened. It was such a strange feeling
after such an intense experience in sleep just a short
while before.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 12:40:17 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: 6 dreams about 9-11
Source: alt.dreams 6 dreams
6/1/01--2. My father and I work behind the scenes
for the White House...sorta. Our job is to set up
firecrackers/rockets on a tall building as Pres. George W.
Bush makes a speech, and when a climactic part of his speech
occurs, we are to set off the firecrackers/rockets. They'd
shoot off into the sky and explode into many colors,
therefore making his point even more emphatic. We did so
once and (or at
least my father did) and it was very effective. The
crowd listening to Dubya's speech seems to love it when the
firecrackers go off as he's making an important point. My
father gets tired and then leaves the rest of the work to
me. I remember going up this huge flight of steps, brimming
with anticipation of my "job", to get to the top of a
building, which is probably no more than a couple inches
wide! Even though I know the building was very tall, I can
barely fit both feet on the top along with the firecrackers.
Weird dream perspective. As I'm going up, I'm so excited
that I could do this, work like this behind the scenes for
someone as well known as Dubya. It really doesn't seem to
matter at all that I totally disagree with 90% of his policy
in real life, I'm just thrilled to be a part of the
action....It's hard to explain. It just feels that what I'm
doing has the utmost importance and is a great honor. I'm
sticking the firecrackers/rockets into the ground, waiting
for the next cue to light the fuses as the dream ends.
NOTES: The odd thing about this dream was, as I
posted already, WHY I would feel so happy supporting George
Bush, Jr. when, like I said, I disagree with like 90% of his
policies. However, it came to pass, and now I fully support
him in the Taliban mess we're in now.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
There are 2 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Kaybay
From: Anonymous
2. husbands girlfriend
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 14:33:26 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Kaybay
Dream Title Kaybay
Date of Dream 10/3/01
Dream In my dream there were several
instances where I would find dead Praying Mantises that had
died before they could lay their eggs. In one instance,
there were two females that had eaten each others heads
off. There eggs where strung all around and smashed.
Standing over them was a man who was crying over them.
This man was a gentleman that I had had an affair with that
was broken off roughly 3 months ago.In my dream there were
several instances where I would find dead Praying Mantises
that had died before they could lay their eggs. In one
instance, there were two females that had eaten each others
heads off. There eggs where strung all around and smashed.
Standing over them was a man who was crying over them.
Comments by Dreamer We have a praying mantis in our
yard that just laid her eggs. My husband & I are getting a
divorce. The man in my dream is a man that I had an affair
with. He and his wife have been unable to conceive a
child.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 16:25:00 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: husbands girlfriend
Dream Title
Date of Dream 10-2-01, middle of night
Dream i was standing in a line of people
and there was another line beside us and my husbands
girlfriend was standing in that line and she was a midget
but in real life she is not and when i saw her i moved over
to that line and stood behind her and kind of laughed as i
put my hand over her head to show how short she was next to
me and as she got to the front of the line they were taking
pictures and her and a couple of her friends were getting
theirs taken and having a good time and thats all i
remember
Comments by Dreamer my husband had an affair and ended
it and recently i found out he was calling her again and
when i found out he said it wouldnt happen agsin he doesnt
want to lose me
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 298
____________________________________________________________
There is 1 message in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. any online discussions on dreams
From: Sudha Sikha <smdevi33
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 12:04:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Sudha Sikha <smdevi33
Subject: any online discussions on dreams
Dear friends,
Are there any online dream sharing and analysis groups.
Recently I have entered the world of dream analisation. It
is very enlightening and creative. I would like to learn
more about how to analyse my dreams and use them in my
journey.
Love and Light
Sudha
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[dream-flow] Digest Number 299
____________________________________________________________
There are 4 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. One "Killer" Girl
From: Anonymous
2. maggie
From: Anonymous
3. Re: maggie
From: Silkgypsy
4. (untitled dream) Sarah
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 09:17:42 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: One "Killer" Girl
Dream Title One "Killer" Girl
Date of Dream March 20,2001
Dream This dream includes my mom, grandpa
(who is dead),4 year old brother, and myself. I was in the
kitchen talking with my mom when she tells me that she has
to kill my little brother.She wouldn't tell me why and I
didn't understand. She told me that she couldn't do it and
she made me kill him. So I shoot little Ty in the chest 4
times and he dies. A second later my grandpa (Who is dead)
appears out of nowhere. The same thing happens. My mom is
forced to kill him but again makes me do the killing. I
shoot my grandpa in the chest 4 times and I can see so
clearly the blood pouring out of the holes in his
chest.After I shot him, I started freaking out crying and
yelling " Why did you make me do this?!?!" And my mom told
me " Its Ok, Kristen, everything will be Ok" She takes my
grandpa's body and cuts his head, legs, and arms off then
wraps what is left of his body and his body parts into a
clear plastic tarp. She puts him in the garage when I
realise its a horrible idea because we are having a party
in the garage. I did not want everyone to see. She says " It
will be fine, I will just hide the body behind this" She
puts my grandpa's chopped up body behind some huge thing
before the party. While the party was going on, my mom had
to go to the store, so Im there with all these people alone.
I look over and see some girl sitting down eating and I see
her look, she see's the dead body and starts yelling. As
soon as she yelled EVERYONE looked over and saw the body.
When that happend I started crying and saying " I dont know
why my mom did this, I dont know why she wanted to kill her
own dad!!" Thats when I woke up.
Comments by Dreamer I have no idea how this dream
relates to my life. Im hoping that someone will read this
and give me some kind of idea of what it means. It was by
far the scariest and most real dream I have ever had. At
the end when I was crying, I woke mysef up because I was
really crying.
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 09:10:37 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: maggie
ream Title maggie Date of Dream
10/05/01 Dream i asked my sister to look
at my hair and she began to brush the back of my long hair.
my hair from the outside looked gorgeous, long and dark and
shiny but i felt something wrong and then my sister pulled
out a big chuck of hair from the back of my head. i really
did not want her to see it. but obviously she did. she told
me about it, but ironically i already new it was going to
happen. also even though a huge chunk of healthy hair came
out, it was not noticed on my head (as if no hair had been
taken). i then ran to the shower and was upset. once i got
out i needed to go to school. my mom was to take me but she
had no regard for time. i kept telling her how important it
was for me to go now.. i ended up really frustrated because
my mother did not understand how important it was to go to
school...it was my life...my bread and water. then this
woman picked me up and told me don't you notice the
difference and how they live versus you. i did not like
her. she was jealous of my mothers good fortune. i
commented quietly, that i saw the difference but that was
life. i could not wait to get out of the car. i arrived at
class at 9:30am way too late.
Comments by Dreamer do not know... ? that is my
question. my life style is very different than my families.
i have been stressed about love? i hate my job.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:45:50 EDT
From: Silkgypsy
Subject: Re: maggie
>>>> i asked my sister to look at my hair and she began
to brush the back of my long hair. my hair from the outside
looked gorgeous, long and dark and shiny but i felt
something wrong and then my sister pulled out a big chuck
of hair from the back of my head. i really did not want her
to see it. but obviously she did. she told me about it, but
ironically i already new it was going to happen. also even
though a huge chunk of healthy hair came out, it was not
noticed on my head (as if no hair had been taken).>>>>>
Hair can symbolize our thoughts. It may be that how you are
appearing on the outside to others or how you are
presenting yourself to the world is very different than how
you are feeling on the inside, and perhaps you would not
want others to know your thoughts.
<<>>
Going to the shower seems to suggest that you wish to start
afresh and on a spiritual level you know this and seek to
remove the dross from your life. Others are not aware of
what matters to you and this is frustrating you. The dream
says to me that you can't expect others to have the same
values as you, but need to respect and value your own.
Live and let live....but without getting upset with others
when they don't agree with the choices you make for
yourself.
<<<then this woman picked me up and told me don't you notice
the difference and how they live versus you. i did not like
her. she was jealous of my mothers good fortune. i
commented quietly, that i saw the difference but that was
life. i could not wait to get out of the car. i arrived at
class at 9:30am way too late.>>>>
no comment on this part..the same message really
Comments by Dreamer do not know... ? that is my
question. my life style is very different than my families.
i have been stressed about love? i hate my job.<>>>>>>>>
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____________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:09:02 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: (untitled dream) Sarah
Dream Title (untitled dream) Sarah
Date of Dream Sept (more than a week after the
11th) and i wokeup at 6:00
Dream I lived with 10-20 of my girl
friends, in the motel room. We lived with my friends
parents (next door neighbors in real life) and we were
getting ready to go to her cousins bat mitzfah(sp)(their
Hindu). The this boy from school walks out of the bathroom,
making eye-contact with no one, not even paying attention
to all the noise (i was the only one that saw him too) and
he just walked into another room. Then somehow i end up on
the top floor or this huge building sitting there. all
around on its sides are flashing neon lights saying and
counting down, to when the terrorists were going to destroy
it. I, the only one remaining in it, was calm and just sat
there even though i had plenty of time to get out. and then
i woke up.
Comments by Dreamer I have no clue, which is why i
posted it here.
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 300
____________________________________________________________
There are 5 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Helicopter/Stadium flood/red brick road
From: Anonymous
2. premonition
From: Anonymous
3. Future and JonJon
From: Anonymous
4. Strange Dream
From: Anonymous
5. the red backed spider
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 09:22:48 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Helicopter/Stadium flood/red brick road
Dream Title Helicopter/Stadium flood/red brick
road
Date of Dream 10/5/00 6:00 AM
Dream Last night I dreamed I was at some
sort of stadium or event, and the building began to fall
apart and flood at the same time. Me and the person I was
with (I couldn't tell who it was with me) tried along with
everyone to get away from this huge stadium like structure.
The place, wherever it was, was a few blocks from the
water. It seemed like the west coast. We found ourselves
on a red brick street with tall building, seemingly of
brick too.
Then there was a strange helicopter that seemed big, it
wasn't skinny at the end and almost seemed like a tank. I
described it to my boyfriend and he showed me a picture of
the Chinook and it looked just like that. The helicopter
was above the street. There were tall buildings on each
side of the street and the helicopter was hovering above
them, so you could see it between the cracks of the
buildings. The buildings were not skyscrapers, but around
8 or 10 stories.
When we all saw the helicopter we starting running. We were
all afraid it was going to start shooting. My companion
and me ducked into an opening in the building that wasn't a
door, but was more like a brick thruway. Then I woke up.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 09:10:27 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: premonition
Dream Title premonition
Date of Dream about 11:45 on 9/9/01
Dream Beginning in Las Vegas, where i
actually was at the time, visiting my father. from Vegas i
"walked" back to New York, to my mom. i ended up at work,
at the empire state building, wondering why i was there, so
i snuck out. next i was in a building staircase-(like world
trade center) walking up surrounded by men in business
suits. as we ascended higher the floor numbers became
lower-6,5,4, as approaching 4 one of the men grabbed me by
the neck, i struggled and ran down my hallway to my
apartment. upon seeing my roommates i told them to avoid
the guy down the hall. next scene, he was in my apartment
having a so-called meeting with two other men, as he left,
the two other guys held open the door, as i look down the
hallway, an old co-worker was running down the hallway in a
complete fit of rage, screaming in terror. when he got to
my door i said to him-"so you're involved in this too."
Comments by Dreamer it relates because after 9/11 i was
still in vegas, being confused whether to go back to ny or
stay in vegas. then the fact about having to go back to
work in the empire state building. the staircases and men
in business suits relates to the tragedy at the world
center and my friend in a fit of rage describes the
unexplainable horror that took place.
prmonition or not, i believe that i felt something .
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 11:41:53 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Future and JonJon
Dream Title Future and JonJon
Date of Dream 3 weeks ago
Dream I am a 21 year old male from
Birmingham,Alabama.I am currently in school and I live with
my mother and two dogs named Sasha and Sarh.(both Brittney
Spaniels)I love to read,hang out,lift weights and movies.I
have been having dreams of the future since I was 4 years
old or so and my parents would freak out when I would tell
them and then they actually happen.I would have one almost
every other month or so and the dream would become real
anywhere from a few days to a month later.The recent one
that has happened is I was at the local Seafood restaurant
waiting for a to-go order when out of the corner of my eye I
see a man in Hospital Scrubs and then a woman coming in
from a another door coming next to me.I was leaning up
against one of the walls inside waiting for my order when
this happens.Next to the man in the scrubs is a bench with a
woman sitting in it and the counter for orders is in front
of this bench with a freezer for fish and shrimp,etc.I
could hear people talking and then I wake up.This dream
happened about 3 weeks ago.Then when I went to the Seafood
Restaurant this past Sunday the same things that happened in
my dream happened while waiting for my order.Maybe you
could see what it means and let me know if there is a way I
could by chance do something to where I could dream
something me then little things and if I could dream of
other things then little bits and pieces.Usually I have
regular dreams and nightmares like everyone else.Also my
mom told me that my aunt and great grandmother has the same
thing as me to where we all have dreams of the future and I
am thinking somehow it has skipped my mom because my aunt is
her sister and my great grandmother is her grandmother.
Comments by Dreamer some of my dreams usually come true
within a few days to a month later
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 11:42:17 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Strange Dream
Dream Title Strange Dream
Date of Dream Sep 14 2001
Dream I had this strange dream. I was on
the first floor of my office building and I saw people
running around and I asked someone and they said two T-Rexs
were heading towards the building. One of the Rex's started
to chase me and someone else up a flight of stairs we ran
and ran and could here the Rex roaring and see it behind
us. When we got outside on the top floor I awoke. I had
this dream days after the Sept 11 Attack.
Comments by Dreamer I work in a five story building.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 09:22:36 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: the red backed spider
Dream Title the red backed spider...destini
Date of Dream 0ct 6,2001 early morning hours.
Dream i dreamed that i was staying the
night with some friends,i came out of the bathroom and a
head of me infront of the bedroom i was to sleep in was a
huge spider in a big spider web that covered the length of
the double doors. this spider had a red hard body resembling
a crab but its legs were big and black as of a spider. my
friends , infront of their bedroom door had an intercom , i
called them to get up at look at this spider..they got up
and looked ,it was very dark and they could not see the
spider. i could see the spider crawled quickly off the web
and down the stairs where the children were. i told my
friends but they did not believe me but followed me down
the stairs anyway. the children were sleeping on the floor.i
looked under a table but could not see the spider. i knew
he was in here hiding and the kids were in danger the
parents thought i was imaging....i then woke up...
Comments by Dreamer i have no idea how this relates to
my life.im going to be a nanny for these kids soon, i dont
know what the spider represents...
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 301
____________________________________________________________
There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. alone
From: Anonymous
2. blue
From: Anonymous
3. being chased
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:02:27 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: alone
Dream Title alone by:melancholy
Date of Dream Oct. 2, 20012:ooa.m. till 4:30a.m.
Dream I sat on the street. i could hear
guns go off and bombs all around me. I saw someone crying,
someone screaming. I figured i could help. I stood.
everything flashed black, and the next thing i see is that
i am alone. It goes to black again. A family is eating
dinner. There's a loud crash, you can hear cries of despair
in the distance. But the family acts as though nothing is
happening. I wish I could be with them, but I am alone.
Comments by Dreamer Not to be judged by a dream. Just
to confirm.
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
Permission Comments go ahead
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:15:33 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: blue
Dream Title blue
Date of Dream 07/10/01
Dream 6 or 7 more planes hijacked from
sydney airport, highly commando like orginisation, suspect
some secret government operation as troopers were on the
scene in minutes,
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 16:08:18 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: being chased
Dream Title being chased
Date of Dream many times
Dream Hello,
My name is Tamra and I am a new member. I have been recently
starting researching books, websites, and dream groups to
learn more about dreams and their meanings. I am still new
at this, so please bear with me. I am also looking into
dream group meetings in the San Diego area and haven't been
able to find anything. If anyone knows any active groups,
please let me know. I am also learning to work with the
medicine wheel and am currently reading several of Sun
Bears books. This has helped me to learn to remember more
details within the dreams.
Anyway, I have had dreams (some recurring) but always the
same theme, for many years now. I am a very vivid dreamer,
and have always had strange dreams. I usually can remember
them fairly well, and recently started keeping a dream
journal. I have also had many dreams that have come true to
a certain extent. There are a few dreams I would like to
discuss eventually but one dream theme in particular at the
moment.
A dream theme that has really bothered me, especially
recently is that I am being chased by someone, (sometimes a
group of people) they seem to be terrorists of some sort.
It seems that I have seen something, or heard something and
they are trying to catch me to kill me because of it. I am
always running away, through buildings, malls, sometimes a
strange pink house with lots of stained glass windows.
There have been times where they have caught me, and right
then I wake up. In the dream I feel very scared and
panicked. Sometimes I dream that I have been kidnapped by
someone, and I am trying to escape, again running.
Sometimes they catch me, sometimes they don't, and I wake
up at that point.
The evening before 9/11, I had a dream that a group of
people were killing all these people, and slaughtering
them, Murder and mayhem.
I again had this dream after the events of 9/11.
I have heard of lucid dreaming, where you can change the
outcome and ask people questions in the dream etc but I
have not been able to do this. And I don'' really know
enough about it.
I have no idea why I have had these same dreams or themes
for many years now. I really would like to figure this out,
and try to get them to stop.
Any help, advise, theories, questions, analyzing, etc are
very much appreciated.
Dream on ..
Tamra
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 302
____________________________________________________________
There are 2 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Green Sweater
From: Anonymous
2. Suicide by Disembowlment
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:34:42 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Green Sweater
Dream Title Green Sweater
Date of Dream October 1st, 3 am
Dream ONe of my friends tore my green
sweater, and i then wore it and one of my guy friends was
wearing the same sweater
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 17:13:46 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Suicide by Disembowlment
Dream Title Suicide by Disembowlment, melmel
Date of Dream Oct 10, 2001, btwn 4:30 and 6am
Dream I am skydiving, but down a
line like there was a rope between the plane and the boat
(inflatable raft?). falling from the plane, wind in hair,
something not right, not working. my chute didn't open, I
grab hold of the white line, legs grabbed by someone in the
boat, fall on the inflatable cushion and when I made it
down I was yelled at. It was my fault it didn't open.
How? Was I lying out earlier? YES! (previous dream??),
on a white lawn chair on a green lawn, legs bent w/ white
sunscreen on just my knees. The person I was laying next
to, large male (we seemed close, kindred), also had white
sunscreen on his knees. I wasn't allowed there...on the
lawn, away from the house (was it a party?), and that is
why my chute didn't open.
I'm in a small place, the inside of a boat...am being
lifted by underneath my arms, like a child, high up in the
air, swung around, onto to the higher level on the outside
where he was. The man from the lawn chair, big arms, big
like a football player. Lifted me like air.
We were all in a room maybe 4 of us. The man sitting on the
floor. An attic? I was standing. Something was wrong.
why? a feeling of discomfort, awkwardness someone speaks,
he does sad, resigned. Takes a sword (serrated?) and
slashes open his stomach, side to side, top to bottom, then
thrusts it into his open wound. Not angry just matter-of-
fact. He pulls out some of his insides .sitting Indian
style, his entrails glistening on his knees. We just
stare, too stunned to move he was quick. I understood why
he was sitting there talking, expecting to die slowly, but
cut open in such a way that he couldn't survive. Very
matter of factly
Comments by Dreamer I'm not sure how it relates to my
life, but I definitely felt a strong connection to the man
in the dream. And the reason for the suicide is VERY
important but I cannot remember. It is still frustrating.
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 303
____________________________________________________________
There is 1 message in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Terrorists had kidnapped me and were planning to
kidnap CEO's
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:55:51 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Terrorists had kidnapped me and were planning to
kidnap CEO's
Dream Title Terrorists had kidnapped me and
were planning to kidnap CEO's
Date of Dream 9/15/01 about 3 a.m.
Dream The dream was 3 days after the
Sept. 11 attacks, and was very real and terrifying. In it a
small group of Islamic terrorists had kidnapped me and I
overhead them planning to kidnap high-raking executives,
CEO's, and other officials from major American corporations.
I woke up while in the middle of an attempted escape from
them that seemed to be working. The dream scared me bad
enough that i was awake for about an hour thinking about
what I had experienced in the dream.
Comments by Dreamer I read a news article a day or 2
later that indicated that the sort of plot in my dream was
a very real terrorist type tactic which has in the past and
could now happen.
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 304
____________________________________________________________
There is 1 message in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. last night's dream
From: kittynp
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 12:37:52 -0000
From: kittynp
Subject: last night's dream
DREAM JOURNAL 10-12-01
SUBJECT: X-rays and other medical stuff
I am working in our office. A patient comes in who needs to
be seen. She is not one of my patients. She is a patient
of Dr. S.. Dr. S is done for the day, so I have to see
patient (even though Dr. is still there in the office).
Patient's hand is bandaged and splinted with black paddles
(these paddles are used in defib machine for cardiac
arrest, not for splints in real life). I unwrap the bandages
and remove the paddle "splints" and the patient has a large
gaping hole in hand. I comment that it is looking better
(makes me wonder what it looked like before as I'm writing
this because it was a significant injury- not one that
would typically be dressed and sending patient home-more
like one where pt. Would be hospitalized for days or
weeks). There is no where to place the old dressings as
everything has been cleaned for the day. I decide to place
in trashcan in my office and deal with it tomorrow when
there are more support staff available. I stick my head in
door and ask Dr. if he wants me to Xray the hand, since it
is his patient. He says yes and I tell him I am not Xray
tech. And because the laws have recently changed, even
though I'm Nurse Practitioner, I am no longer allowed to do
the X- rays. He says to "read the manual" that existing
NP's, PA's and MD/DO's Have been "grandfathered" in and are
exempt from new rules. I take the xray and then ask if he
wants me to put in the "processor".
Comments: Even though the scene of dream seems to be my
office in real life- it has more of the "feel" of hospital
because of the pieces of equipment ie paddles, xray
machine, processor, lack of support staff and severity of
patient injury. Patient has obviously come in after our
normal hours. Don't get why or what has to say to me on
personal level. Maybe something about-no such thing as "not
my job". Reading manual seems to feel important also. I
wonder given my intuitive feelings re: coming bad events,
esp. between Oct. 10th-15th- and my looking for where and
what the "white building" is is my white building a
hospital?
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 305
____________________________________________________________
There are 5 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Fires and Bombs by SO
From: Anonymous
2. Meeting Ghosts
From: Anonymous
3. My ex-boyfriend
From: Anonymous
4. Coyote Dreams
From: Anonymous
5. Meeting Ghosts Venessa
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:36:18 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Fires and Bombs by SO
Dream Title Fires and Bombs by SO
Date of Dream 10/9/01 3:00 a.m
Dream i had i dream thaT there was fires
every where and there was nobody stopping it there was wars
everywhere bombs people dying and very unpleasant sights
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:28:12 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Meeting Ghosts
Dream Title Meeting Ghosts Venessa
Date of Dream September 11, 2001
Dream I was dreaming that I was in a
house
and ghosts were introducing themselves to me. Hundreds of
them, and it was going on for hours.In the dream I was
asking people- "can't anyone else see them?" My boyfriend
who is an early riser said "come see this on t.v.!" Well,
are they related I honestly don't know, but I often have
dreams that predict the future.
Comments by Dreamer I think they were the souls from
911. The day before my boyfriend and I were driving and he
said "Something very bad is going to happen, it is closing
in. We are very intuitive but this was beyond our normal
range.I thought he was talking about our personal life.Not
the life of our country.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 19:37:34 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: My ex-boyfriend
Dream Title My ex-boyfriend
Date of Dream Everynight 300a.m.
Dream I keep having dreams that my ex-
boyfriend and I are still in a relationship.In every dream
I have we are getting alone and we are very happy together
in my dream what does this mean?
Comments by Dreamer Well me and my ex still comunicate
from time to time i think we still have feeling for each
other.
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
Permission Comments
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 19:39:05 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Coyote Dreams
Dream Title Coyote Dreams pn: Ganja Geoff
Date of Dream Haveing this dream for over a year
Dream I fall out of my body into a hole
outside my house; I seem to fall very slowy down the hole
untill I enter into a large cavern. Many strange creatures
are there. I ask a stranger where I can find Coyote and he
leads me to a sort of portal. I leap throught the portal
and find myself in a desert. (This desert looks closer to
the America Southwest than a desert with just sand) I walk
and find a man in a cloak sitting around a fire. I sit
near him and he removes his hood. It is the coyote. We
talk about many spirtual things for a while and then I
reverse my tracks back to my body and wake up.
Comments by Dreamer Im still searching for the meaning
of this dream.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 19:38:12 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Meeting Ghosts Venessa
Dream Title Meeting Ghosts Venessa
Date of Dream September 11, 2001
Dream I was dreaming that I was in a
house
and ghosts were introducing themselves to me. Hundreds of
them,
and it was going on for hours.In the dream I was asking
people- "can't anyone else see them?" My boyfriend who is
an early riser said "come see this on t.v.!" Well, are they
related I honestly don't know, but I often have dreams that
predict the future.
Comments by Dreamer I think they were the souls from
911. The day before my boyfriend and I were driving and he
said "Something very bad is going to happen, it is closing
in. We are very intuitive but this was beyond our normal
range.I thought he was talking about our personal life.Not
the life of our country.
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 306
____________________________________________________________
There are 7 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Fencing Men & Meteor Showers/growler
From: Anonymous
2. Re: Fencing Men & Meteor Showers/growler
From: Silkgypsy
3. INFANTS FUNERAL
From: Anonymous
4. URGENT PLEASE HELP ME!!
From: "donna scales" <kewlwoman
5. ballot
From: Anonymous
6. two dreams
From: Anonymous
7. Re: two dreams
From: "kim" <babel
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 10:51:34 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Fencing Men & Meteor Showers/growler
Dream Title Fencing Men & Meteor
Showers/growler
Date of Dream 10/13/01 early am 2-3 am
Dream Last night I continued to dream in
a more exaggered fashion(for me). I watched some people in
what seemed to be fencing type suits with the hemets being
more substancial yet I could not see what they were doing.
I also watched meteor type showers that were explosive and
extemely bright having somewhat geometric configurations,
that were symbolic to those watching. I felt like I had to
move.
Comments by Dreamer I am waiting for more clarity, Of
course this may directly relate to the bombing activity.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:36:15 EDT
From: Silkgypsy
Subject: Re: Fencing Men & Meteor Showers/growler
This dream feels like it may relate to bombing activity. If
it where my dream, I would consider my current location and
if it seems like a high risk area or not. Silk
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 18:53:02 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: INFANTS FUNERAL
Dream Title infants funeral
Date of dream 3am-10/10/01
Dream i entered the darkened church and
walked slowly down the isle to where my class mate was
standing next to the casket of her infant niece. There
were flower arrangements all around, and i felt an immense
and heavy sadness. On the tiny casket there was the child's
birth date and then the date of passing which was 12/6/01.
When i awoke i still felt extreme sadness. I have
never met my class mates niece before, though have seen
pictures of her. I feel very uncomfortable about the fact
there was a date on the casket- i have never recalled a
written date before in a dream. I do not feel comfortable
telling my classmate about the dream, but am afraid it is a
premonition and will feel horrible if something did happen
and i didnt say anything. What should i do? What can this
mean? 12/6/01, is not a significant date for me in any way
that i can think of. Please respond
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 01:01:15 -0500
From: "donna scales" <kewlwoman
Subject: URGENT PLEASE HELP ME!!
My name is Donna Scales and I do not have allot of time to
explain. I am not a religious person by any means and I know
I am NOT insane. With that said, let me tell you that in the
last two weeks God has urged me to do things and start his
ball rolling for peace, because he assures me we will all
have the need to hang onto our hopes and dreams as we watch
the start of world war 3 happen. He assures me it is soon.
He assures me that we need to pass this prayer on to all of
mankind ASAP! He gave me 24 hrs to spread this prayer and
told me all things are possible through Christ and he will
make his word known. So I am doing as he wishes and he wrote
this poem through me about 3 days ago and I had sent it to a
few friends...but tonight he urged me to send it to all
mankind and take all of tomorrow to do it. It is 12:18 and I
am trying to get this message to everyone. This is not a
joke believe me. I wish it was. But he says there is no time
to hesitate. We must all come together in Prayer and we all
must do it NOW. I am attempting to God's Work and he assures
me it will get done. So please do your part as I am doing
mine and publish this anyway you can ...he wants it all done
by Sunday!!! I know I know....but this is his wish for all
of us and it needs to be known, I promise , I am not a nut
or a mean person pulling a hoax. I have had many messages
and signs , but no time to explain. Trust in God and pass
this on he wants you to.
My phone Number is 704-460-7330....not much time to question
it though....here is the prayer of Hope:
For The Love Of God
How are we to Believe he is here He comes to us as promised
Yet we can only see fear
Look all around you my friends His angels are here from
heaven Showing you his love that never ends
Follow the way to the land of hope Follow all the dreams of
goodness God is here to help you cope
War is such an ugly choice He is asking you to hear is voice
Follow that heart that tells you to be kind Follow that
voice that tells you to forgive Follow his word and follow
his love For the Love of God is here from above
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:22:07 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: ballot
Dream Title ballot
Date of Dream 10-13-01
Dream My tubes are ties but I keep
dreaming that I will end up pregnant with a son. Is that
just me wanting it or could this be possible? And also I
keep dreaming that my husband will have an affair on me.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:37:24 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: two dreams
Dream Title edie
Date of Dream Oct 14, 2001
Dream I had two dreams last night that
are of specific intereste to me.
First, I am 32, never married and for the FIRST time last
night, when I dreamed of my wedding, I saw the face of the
groom. It's not anyone I know.
The second dream is RECURRING. I quite often dream of
searching for someone or something. Last night I dreamed
that, for hours, I searched and could not find my car in a
parking garage. When I did find it, I had been walking
past it all along. I have had this similar dream for as
long as I can remember. One dream where I am searching for
my brother in my grandmothers (fictitios) house. I can
hear him, but I can't find him.
In advance, thank you for your comments.
Comments by Dreamer Seeing the face of the groom...Does
this mean there is hope? Searching...am I searching for
the meaning of life?
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 13:18:11 -0700
From: "kim" <babel
Subject: Re: two dreams
does the guy's face remind you of anyone? what stands out
about it for you, if anything?
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 307
____________________________________________________________
There are 4 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Football and terror
From: Anonymous
2. opened
From: Anonymous
3. New Dream
From: Anonymous
4. raven woman
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:47:10 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: Football and terror
Dream Title Football and terror written by:
Wolflord, Danie
Date of Dream 10-10 about11:20am
Dream I had a dream that my grandma, who
has been dead a year, was at my football game, she was
yelling at me and trying to tell me something but I
couldn't hear her and then all of a sudden I got hit by a
train and went flying into my football team. After that she
ran over to me and she was still trying to tell me
something but this time she was pointing to my Mom and Dad
and little brother in the stands. She was real worried I
tried to tell her I couldn't hear her but I woke up before I
could tell her.
Comments by Dreamer In real life I did get hit by a
football player that was a fast as a train and hit as hard
as one but I still can't fuiger out the Mom dad brother
thing. HELP!!!
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:43:07 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: opened
Dream Title opened
Date of Dream 10/12/01
Dream I keep having this reoccuring
dream of things that are going to happen the next day and
how i should have escaped. It was a car crash on the
highway i dreamt i was driving to school on a fairly open
highway and for what seems like no reason the half ton in
front of me stops! i look in my mirror as i slam on the
brakes and just see 'MACK' and two headlights. Time stops,
i easliy move my car into the left lane but the two trucks
hit. the next day when im really driving i pull to the
left just for the heck of it and a car tire blows in front
of a half ton like the one in my dream, truck salms on
brakes. then the 18 wheeler behind it crashes into it.
Then i remember the dream!
Comments by Dreamer all i can say is that god was on my
side, how it relates to my life is kinda hard to say. I'm
just glad it happened!
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 23:05:59 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: New Dream
Dream Title My Talent by Marlene
Date of Dream Every night
Dream In many of my dreams I have the
talent of touching my nose with my tongue. Now, it has
nothing to do with the type of dream I'm having, but at
some point in the dream, I play with my talent and move on.
In real life I can not do this but I do think about how it
would be cool once in a while. This has been going on for
too long!
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 23:07:00 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: raven woman
Dream Title raven woman, by b
Date of Dream 10-3-01, 12:15 am
Dream There's thick snow
everywhere...it's like a post-apocalyptic landscape of the
area where I live. Animals run amok, ones that you'd
normally see in the zoo nowadays. In this, it's like Twelve
Monkeys, minus the virus.
Instead of the virus, people seem to be picking up on animal
traits.
I see a pair of lions walking down my road, about 6 inches
from where I am crouched in bushes, wearing my Navy
peacoat. I am not afraid of them...I am convinced that I
can telepathically convince them that I do not exist. That
I am not there. The snow is deep... The male lion passes
with a glance in my direction, but I am very still. The
female lion spots me, tries to swipe at me, but I laugh and
disappear. Because I thought I could.
(yeah I know, it gets weirder)
Now I'm suddenly this middle-aged woman with chunky hips and
brown hair put up in a bun. Not very attractive. At the
moment, she and 2 or 3 other females are leaving a log
cabin that a man was running, offering shelter from the
cold. There is no electricity. The woman/me is cursing out
the man who runs the place. But in hushed tones. She/me
remembers to pack her bible that was her mothers...with the
light blue silk cover.
She worries about how far they will get in the cars, and how
much luggage will fit in them. She also worries about the
man who runs the cabin, for he is totally losing it, I
guess. He is convinced that he is a bat or something.
Then she remembers (I, inhabiting her head in the dream pick
up on this and this is the scariest part.) a man she and
the other females encountered on their way here. A scraggly
man who was starving who they had to run from, he had gone
mad.
His wife had died, and he could no longer find food. He
wanted food from the group of women...
because "She can only last for so much longer.."
He was eating his wife. I/she was horrified.
Then I am back at my house and there is this dog thing that
can float sort of. I had been hiding on the ledge under my
bedroom window. I was convinced I was a bird or something.
The dog-thing (never have I seen a dog that looked like
this) came up to the ledge and talked to me. I don't
remember what about.
Then I woke up.
Comments by Dreamer I'm a lucid dreamer with interests
in shamanistic practices.
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 308
____________________________________________________________
There are 4 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. a flight to catch
From: Anonymous
2. strange house
From: Anonymous
3. experimental aircraft
From: Anonymous
4. Re: a flight to catch
From: GaylePaul
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:04:36 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: a flight to catch
Dream Title a flight to catch
Date of Dream Saturday, October 11, 2001 ~ after
midnight
Dream I dreamed that you lived in
Colorado in this huge house. (I'm always dreaming about
this same huge house that I never get to see all of--it
just has endless halls and I never reach the end). I've
dreamed of this house over and over and I usually am trying
to clean it or figure who all might come to stay with us.
This time you lived in it and Doris, Bob, Marilyn, Don,
Mother, Jack and I and several others including two black
teen agers had come to visit you and we had brought so many
clothes both winter and summer. I was dreaming we had a
flight to catch at 3:45 p.m. and I was trying to pack all
these clothes into such few suit cases and everyone but me
were sitting around in the living room just having the best
time and I was going around making sure all the clothes
were packed and all the beds were made. I had to get the
two black boys out of bed so I can get their room fixed up
before the left. Then there were several children involved
that kept coming into each bedroom as I was making the
beds and cutting up strips of paper and laying them all over
the beds once I got them made. As I was about to finish
the last bedroom Marilyn came to the doorway and said I
think you should remember to pack your iron. She said you
know my mother used that for about two hours before she
packed all their clothes to leave. There I stood this my
iron and I finally stuck it in a Walmart bag with a teddy
bear of someones that I couldn't possible get into any of
our bags. When I got to the living room Bob was tapping
his foot anxiously awaiting for me to finish and he said
"Surely you don't think they're going to let you on a plane
with all that luggage and cheap bags like that with the
teddy bear and iron". THANK GOODNESS I WOKE UP so I don't
know what happened.
Comments by Dreamer (You) is my female cousin...as are
all the rest of the people mentioned, except my husband &
my mother. I live in a Log Home, very secluded, which is
somewhat of a showplace. Alot of my family come out to see
it, since we haven't owned it but a couple of years.
Permission to Comment yes_share_comments
Permission Comments I would like to know the
interpretations of my dream, since it is re-occurring.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:02:20 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: strange house
Dream Title strange house...loopydoris
Date of Dream 16.10.01...approx 2pm
Dream just had the weirderst dream...
First I should tell you about Ian..He's a new
friend...possibly a future boyfriend.
Ian and myself had bought a house..it was huge.
The first thing I remember when viewing the house was the
high celings.
It had no decoration just floorboards and no staircases.To
get to upstairs we had to climb on a chair which is odd
because the house had such high ceilings that there would
have been no way you could have reached the second floor by
standing on a chair alone.
We had great plans for the place including a big sweeping
staircase in the hallway and a spiral staircase from
enormous consevatory to main bedroom. It had 5
bedrooms....and was a very old place with lots of
renorvating to do.
A few minutes later we were holding a party there...we
invited lots of mutual friends and told them they could all
stay the night but would only be able to offer them floor
space to sleep straight on the floorboards.
I remember seeing lots of faces there but only a couple of
people I knew.
The garden was very big and green. It was all enclosed and
wasn't overlooked from other houses. It also had lots of
space for car parking.
Very odd
Comments by Dreamer odd that I dreamt about buying a
house with someone I'm not even with
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:00:03 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: experimental aircraft
Dream Title experimental aircraft
Date of Dream 10/16/01
Dream A aircraft with triple pyramid-
design wings...I watch it as it flies above the airplane on
which I am a passenger...it makes a right bank and then
falls in slow motion...I scream that it is going to
crash...I lose sight of it as it goes over our craft...it
knocks against ours and people start screaming...I gain
sight of it again as it fails upside-down into a mirrored
building in the shape of a pentagon... and watch as some
survivors jump out...I look at my grandson's eyes and he is
crying.
Comments by Dreamer Fear and stress...worry about the
future of my family
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 22:37:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: GaylePaul
Subject: Re: a flight to catch
If others make comments about my dream, or try to interpret
my dreams, how do I find out the comments? Who analyzes the
dreams and how do I make comments about other dreams?
[This message contained attachments]
____________________________________________________________
[dream-flow] Digest Number 309
____________________________________________________________
There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. recurring dream
From: Anonymous
2. Re: recurring dream
From: kim <babel
3. The Hunter
From: Anonymous
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:32:39 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: recurring dream
Dream Title recurring dream from Miss Thing
Date of Dream at lest once a week
Dream I Keep having a recurring dream
that I am coming home and I pick my children up from their
grandparents house, a few minutes later I stop at the post
office to check the mail when the kids and I get back in my
husbands truck, my cell phone rings and my mother in law is
on the other end, she tells me my husband had a massive
heart attack and is dead. The next thing I do is tell my
children and try to help them understand. I know I have to
be strong for my children, so I can't break down in front
of them.
Comments by Dreamer I'm not sure. I am married and I do
have children. I very seldom drive my husbands truck, so I
can't figure out why I have it that day.
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:33:04 -0700
From: kim <babel
Subject: Re: recurring dream
Not every element of a precognitive dream always correlates
to the real life events. Not to say, that God forbid you are
indeed seeing your future - but why not ask your husband to
have a check up - just to be on the safe side. My ex-husband
had a heart attack when he was 45. The entire day proceeding
this event I had the first (and last) anxiety attack of my
life and kept asking myself what is wrong with me that i
feel so frightened.. years later I can tell you that if I
had the tools I have now, I could have deducted something
serious was going to happen. Perhaps I couldn't have avoided
it entirely but maybe I would have forced him to remain in
the hospital instead of accepting his insistence that
"everything was okay." I always think that heart attacks
forecasted by astrologers and psychics and perhaps dreams
could definitely be interpreted as "broken hearts" instead.
Some believe that once you interpret a recurring dream it
stops coming back. Good luck. kim
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:17:58 -0700
From: Anonymous
Subject: The Hunter
Dream Title The Hunter
Date of Dream started the night of my wreck in
which a SazukiSamuri was flipped 7 times down a 75 foot
embankment of concrete.
Dream For 5 years now, I have been
dealing with dreams that aren't right. I once shared a
dream with my wife of being in a place with no walls or
floor with a painting of war on the wall. The painting
moved within itself as we watched the men dying. Secondly my
friend asked me to attempt tryin to enter someone's dream
and we discussed nothing further only that we would hunt
one another down in our dreams that night. We had the exact
dream except I looked like someone else to him but my dream
was his to a T.
Everytime I dream on my own it is of battle, enetering and
instantly looking for the one I am to attack. Everyone I
fight in dreams never win, I guess to the powers that are
at my disposal everytime: Telekenesis, floating, flying,
and extreme speed, agility and strength. I have been
plagued for sometime by this, since I had a wreck and wasn't
supposed to survive. On some occasions I have dreams of
being at a dark meeting of people who speak of such things
as war, the others and uniting. But my voice is always kept
silent due to the feel of respect I need to show.
During my waking hours I have often heard whispers of
voices and visions brief as if a flash of light to my mind
yet holding images, never knowing just what exactly they
mean, but in this last meeting I remember the talk of
November being the month of it's coming and plans we were to
take.
I know this sounds strange but my grandmother told me once
that I would be different, and she also in her life
mentioned of being the same way, although NEVER sharing
what she saw and took it to her grave. I ask for help,
seeing as how I haven't tried the amatuer experiment of
entering another's dreams again and feel my battle are
coming closer to home. I have noticed different phisical
characteristics of myself including extremely thin and
extremely tall. All teeth elongated and my own eyes of slits
when I peer into a mirror in my dream state. I always known
when I am dreaming, and can control my dreams within 95%
making even the most fantastic of events happen but always
seeming to be battle with another like me.
____________________________________________________________
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