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Electric Dreams Volume 02 Issue 03
Title: Electric Dreams Volume 2 Number 3
File: Electric Dreams 2(3)
==========================================================
Electric Dreams back issues are available to the public and
listed individually.
For an index of Articles and dreams on Electric Dreams,
See the IIDCC Research Tools area.
================================================================
=========================================
Electric Dreams
Volume 2 Issue #3
24 February 1995
==========================================
--Back issue and the FAQ available via anonymous FTP at
sppc1952.uwsp.edu
-- Also available via America On Line:
Keyword: writers
\writers club library
\writers club ezines
--For mailing list info, subscriptions, dreams and comments
send to Cathy: <cathy@cassandra.ucr.edu>
--Send questions about dreams & dreaming to Matthew:
<mettw@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au>
--General comments, articles and ideas to Richard:
<RCWilk@aol.com>
=========================================
CONTENTS OF THIS ISSUE:
Editor's Notes & Day Residue
Questions and Answers - by Matthew
Child in dreams - Cathy
Philosophical dream theory? - A. J. Jacobson
Lucid Dream Note - Keelin
Discussion: Answers from Dreams
Article: Freud and the Interpretation of Dreams
Part II: Method - By Matthew
Freud Bibliography for Researchers - By Richard
Commentary: on "Vampire Conversion" by Jay
Commentary: on "The Door, the Limo and the TV" by Bob
Commentary: on "Blue Potion" by Jay
Dream: "Old Holiday Dream" or "Close Encounters of the
Fourth Kind" Jim Blowers
Commentary: on "Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind" by
Jay
Commentary: on "Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind" by
Bob
Commentary: on "Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind" by
Richard
Dream: "THIS, THAT, AND HERE STREETS" by Jim
Commentary: on "This, That and Here Streets" by Bob
Commentary: on "This, That and Here Streets" By Richard
Dream: "Alien Experiments" by Richard
Dream: "breaking up is hard to do" by stan kulikowski ii
Commentary: on "breaking up is hard to do" by Richard
Dream: "Nightmare" by Cathy
Dream: "Frisbee and House for Sale" by Viking
================================================
DAY RESIDUE
================================================
We have another full and richly textured issue for you this
week. We are still opening and examining dream problems and
answers. Jay and I encourage you to jump in and join our
discussion. Matthew offers us another essay on Freud. (see
Vol. 1(19) for his first essay) This time he talks about
the method of free association and some misconceptions
surrounding Freud's sexual symbolism. Be sure to check out
Keelin's observations on lucid dream symbols. And we have
been dreaming up a storm! Check out all the aliens,
monsters, intruders and unleased passions inhabiting this
cyber-issue.
-Richard
===============================================
Questions and Answers - by Matthew
===============================================
Dear Matthew,
I had two dreams this week in which I was a child again. I
was very conscious of being a child in a child's body in my
dream. This has not happened to me before. Usually I keep
a sense of myself as I am now in my dreams. Is this
common?
-Cathy
Hey- NBC will be presenting a documentary "The Secret World
of Dreams" and the gossip I have is May 13th. Anyone else
have more information on this?
- Richard
Note from Richard: Found this on the net:
Subj: dreaming - a request
Date: 95-02-19 11:31:47 EST
From: AJJacobson@UH.EDU
I'd appreciate help in finding some - or any - good
work on dreams in an analytic-philos of mind or
Wittgensteinian mode. I'm looking for recent work, and so
not Malcolm 60's work. I'm not now looking for work on
psychoanalytic theories. Perhaps something discussing
dreams and functionalism, or dreams and problems about
consciousness.
As you might guess, I'm looking for material for a
class, but I'm interested in work really at any level of
difficulty.
Thanks in advance,
Anne Jaap Jacobson
AJJacobson@uh.edu
Richard's note: I had previously asked Keelin, a lucid
dream worker, about symbols in lucid dreams and she sent us
this reply.
For Electric Dream re: Dream symbols of vulnerability:
During last year's pre-holiday season, I had a
dream in which I engaged in a personally familiar, but
relatively uncommon, activity I've come to think of as
"dream leaping". It's a sort of "long jump", but of
extraordinary length. It is accomplished by running at top
speed and then launching oneself into a foot-first,
horizontal position. Sheer willpower and focused attention
are essential to over-extending the length of the leap. In
this dream, I was explaining and demonstrating the
technique to nearby observers.
I'd not had this dream activity show up for a long
time and didn't give it much thought, other than to remind
myself that it was an excellent dream sign and could have
led to lucidity, had I caught it. What I did catch was a
brief cold the next day -- a surprise, since I tend to be
exceptionally healthy.
The holidays were busier and more stressful than
usual. Just after the peak, I found myself dream leaping
again, and the next day, came down with the worst flu I can
remember. I began to wonder if the dreamed activity had
been a warning. What was this dream leaping all about
anyway?
It didn't take long to see that I had been running
at an accelerated pace and launching myself into a myriad
of activities. With sheer will power and focused intention,
I had indeed over-extended myself to a point which proved
physically detrimental. You can be certain the next time I
find myself dream leaping, I'll pump up the vitamin Cs and
chill out! - Keelin
===========================================
DISCUSSION - Answers from Dreams
===========================================
Continued from issue 2, #2 (dream "Dogs" in 2, #1) Q and A:
Richard: Is this the issue for you or what? (rest cut)
Jay: What were you asking or saying here? Simply that you
get the message from me that 'getting answers from dreams'
is a big issue for me? If so, I agree.
Richard: Oh, no... I missed that aspect of "issue." I was
referring to Issue 2-2! I think my shadow comes out when I
try to self promote or be commercial. :)
Jay: The first problem I see is recognizing what possible
answers or solutions or courses of action are being
suggested by a dream, and the second problem is deciding
which suggestions might be correct. I was complaining more
about the first problem and your discussion dealt more with
the second problem. Of course, one can reduce it to a
single problem by recognizing only those solutions which
one considers to be correct.
I guess the obvious solution that my dogs dream may
be suggesting, but which I refuse to accept, is to be more
open with my feelings, to be willing to do more risk
taking, to accept the effort and ambiguity and commitment
required by being more involved in life and relationships.
I notice that neither you or Bob had anything further to
say about solutions suggested by my 'dogs' dream. Was that
because you saw none or because you felt that it remains
for me to discover my own solutions?
You ask who should determine the answers. I agree
that ultimately it has to be the individual, although,
hopefully with the help of his/her community/society.
'Obviously', there is no one correct answer, only better or
worse answers. And 'obviously' there is no one correct set
of criteria for choosing the correct course of action.
I usually aspire to do that which is best for the
world and all it's members, though 'obviously' we usually
fall far short of that, often putting ourselves before the
world at large, or failing, even, to do what is best for
ourselves. Thus, the need for dreams and making use of
them, among other forms of problem solving.
As a person who is very interested in the unknown,
but who believes only in the confirmed, as defined by me, I
do not currently believe that dreams and any answers they
might contain come fromhigher supernatural forces or
beings, though I remain open to that possibility, but
rather, I suspect that they come from the workings of all
the parts of my own brain, mysterious and wonderful as that
is, and still consider that there might be much to learn
and enjoy from my and others dreams, that there is much
other significant processing going on in my body besides
the conscious thinking that I do.
You suggest incubation as a way to request or
encourage solution dreams. This is something I feel we are
already doing, in a general way, by paying attention to and
reflecting on our dreams as we are doing here. Certainly
this is what I am doing when I ask for answers to my
problems in my dreams. Perhaps I should try making more
specific requests and/or doing more acting on the insights
I receive.
Richard: I see now how I missed your real request for ways
of looking at the dream for solutions. I thought other
people might respond directly from your dream "Dogs" and
not only offer suggestions they saw, but also share some
techniques for approaching dream imagery in this way. I
wanted to try a different tack and suggested using the
dream process itself to get answers from "Dogs." I imagined
you might incubate a question before bed like, "OK, if the
dogs represent the paradox of the problem of exposing or
keeping my emotions locked up, what then can I do about
this?" or more directed at the first dream, "In what way is
my 'Dogs' dream offering me some useful solutions?"
But what I'm hearing now is that you were hoping for
some more readings on "Dogs" that shifted the focus from
reflections to more specific suggestions for actions. I
think you are right that I responded a bit off center of
your main concern, and will probably continue in a similar
vein. My interest in Electric Dreams is in the interpretive
space between my being the authority and you being the
authority. Of course, as you mentioned, in your life you
can be seen as the final authority and in mine, I may be.
But I see my role as keeping the dream images in play long
enough that something unusual happens, either between us
or between us and the dream image itself. I don't really
feel you are forcing me into a know-the-answer position,
you just wanted some plain opinions and comments from the
community. True? Still, my interest in dreams as solutions
to problems is only peripheral.
It appears as if you have already begun work on dream
solutions by dividing the approach into two useful
categories. The first is how to best recognize the answers,
solutions and courses of action, and the second is then how
to choose between them. As you suggested, this approach
leaves room for both optimism and skepticism as well as
multiple possibilities. And I also agree that we *are*
already incubating our dreams by simply having concerns
about what solutions they might offer.
I'd like to pick up on your suggestion as a further
filtering that the "best" answers from the dream are novel
and somewhat unexpected ones. I sense in your exploration a
similar path to mine on this. It's not as interesting to me
personally when my interpretations simply confirm what I
already know and suspect. I recognize that this approach
isn't for everyone at all times. I know a woman, for
example, who takes her dreams as a confirmation or
validation of events and actions already chosen, and this
works fine for her.
Is it important what we believe in terms of *where*
the dream answers come from, messages from heaven or
unknown answers from chemically disrupted synaptic
functioning? There is some difference, I believe, and I
hope we can talk about this more and develop just how
those differences play out though our individual lives and
dramas. For now I just want to pick up on the value you
mentioned, that the best interpretation is the one that is
(ideally) best for everyone. My sense is that this means
you keep in your mind a context of sorts that has
everyone's best interests, and that it is utilitarian and
includes something like allowing for maximum individual
development or the most actualization of individual
potential. (And, as you mentioned, including *ourselves* in
this equation).
My understanding of what you were saying is that
dreams, among other things, fit into the gap between the
real and the ideal and help to mediate this disparity.
I've always liked this kind of Neoplatonic thinking.
Instead of an mind/body split that is so popular today,
having a creative 3rd between them to mediate the two is
very productive. On one hand is the mind, the ideal, the
abstract. In the other is the concrete, the material,
empirics. Mediating between them is something like psyche
or an imaginal area that touches both but is also somehow
quite different and involves a creative response, such as a
dream.
Still, its hard to say the dream is a *clear* solution
even if we accept that it is trying to mediate the
disparity. C. G. Jung claimed that the confusion was ours,
not the dreams. He felt that dreams came from a world that
had a better contact with the Big Picture than we do and it
was our stubbornness to mold everything to our own little
world that created the confusion. But whatever the reason,
dreams are still not immediately apparent to us (usually)
and require translation if they are to be placed in the
category of what we accept as normal solutions. But we all
know that the method will influence the results, so how do
we choose a method and by what authority? As you already
know, one of the solutions that we are experimenting with
here at Electric Dreams is accepting the multiplicity and
(hopefully) responding in kind.
It's difficult to know , in the context of our
community, when we are sharing opinions and comments about
dreams and dreaming and when we are moving into someone's
personal life and giving advice about how to live. This
may also have something to do with our lack of response to
you. There may be room for development between giving
advice and withholding all thoughts.
=========================================
FREUD AND THE INTERPRETATION OF DREAMS
=========================================
By Matthew mettw@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au
PART II - METHOD
----------------
When first looking at a dream it is very easy to see
nothing but a quite silly combination of (seemingly)
unrelated events and images. This sort of impression
though comes mainly I think from trying to interpret the
dream within our conscious experience. That is, to see
many of the experiences in waking life, they would indeed
be ridiculous. The fault with doing this is that in sleep
there are no physical laws that must be obeyed, and there
is no-one to whom we are communicating, so there is no need
for particularly precise or easily intelligible expression.
The dream is as free to express itself as the modern
artist.
The first step to interpreting a dream is then to take
a particular dream element and to freely allow your mind to
form whatever associations come to you. It is important
here that you don't reject any thought as being too trivial
or especially for being so painful or repugnant that you
feel it couldn't possibly be relevant. The idea behind
this method of `free association' is that you know the
meaning of the particular dream element unconsciously, and,
by allowing your mind to wander around the dream element,
you will bring up other associations to the latent dream
thought that caused the dream element. By putting all the
associations together you should be able to find the common
link between them all and therefore unlock the latent
thought behind the dream element.
To take an example from a young girl who was a patient
of Freud:
She was walking across the hall of her house and
struck her head against a low-hanging chandelier
and drew blood.
No reminiscence, nothing that had really
happened.
The information she produced in response to it led
in quite other directions. `You know how badly my
hair's falling out. ``My child,'' my mother said
to me yesterday,``if this goes any further you'll
have a head as smooth as a bottom.'' ' So here the
head stands for the other end of the body. We can
understand the chandelier, without any help, as a
symbol: all objects capable of being lengthened are
symbols of the male organ. It was therefore a
matter of bleeding at the lower end of the body,
which had arisen from contact with a penis. This
might be ambiguous. Her further associations
showed that what was in question concerned a belief
that menstrual bleeding arises from sexual
intercourse with a man - a piece of sexual theory
which counts many faithful believers among
immature girls.
Thank god for sex education. This dream throws up two
characteristics of Freud's theory: first, there is the
belief that objects which can extend, rise, grow larger,
eject water or other liquids, come in threes etc. should
all be taken as phallic symbols. This has led to the
common misconception that Freud used a dream dictionary,
but this is simply not true. The conclusions Freud reached
about phallic symbols came from many years of getting the
same free associations to the same dream symbols; we all
share common experiences, and so it is not all that
surprising that we should come up with common dream
symbols. The great majority of dream symbols however can't
be instantly recognized like this, and so the free
association method
is necessary for every dream.
The second characteristic of Freud's theory is that
it was formed with the dreams of the neurotic, sexually
repressed of the turn of the century, and particularly the
hysterical adolescent petty bourgeois girl. The latter is
something noticed by Freud himself, his theory being that
the lower classes see sex around them as they grow up,
especially those raised in the country who see the animals
having sex. As a result they are less likely to become
frigid from having their first sight of sex on the marital
bed. Some have criticized Freud's method of dream
interpretation for this reason, but I personally can't see
any correlation between the types of dreams studied and the
method of free association. It has worked for me in every
dream I've tried it on, and my dreams are not overly
sexually obsessed.
Freudian interpretation is therefore a simple one;
allow your mind to wander free, and it bring up
associations that revolve around the latent dream thought.
Matthew
================================================
Dream Researcher's Bibliography: Selections From Freud
================================================
Note: For the bibliophiles and researchers I've added this
little supplement to Matthew's essay. If you have some
favorite references about dreams from Freud or annotations
to these selections, please send them in and we'll start
piecing together a collective bibliography. -Richard
Freud, Sigmund. (1900/1953). The Interpretation of Dreams.
Standard Edition, 4&5. London: Hogarth Press.
--------. (1965; first published 1900). The Interpretation
of Dreams. James Strachey,Trans. New York: Avon Books.
--------. (1956). Delusion and Dream. Philip Rieff,Ed.
Boston: The Becon Press.
--------. (1938). Dream interpretation as an illustration.
In (Chap v). An Outline of Psychoanalysis. New York,NY:
W.W. Norton.
--------. (1933). Dreams and the occult. In (Chap xxx),
New Introductory Lectures to Psychoanalysis. New York,
NY: W. W. Norton.
--------. (1933/32). Revision of the theory of the dream.
In New Introductory Lectures to Psychoanalysis. Standard
Edition, 22, 5-183. London: Hogarth Press.
--------. (1925) Some additional notes upon
dream-interpretation as a whole. Standard Edition, 19,
127-138. London: Hogarth Press.
--------. (1923/1922). Remarks upon the theory and practice
of dream-interpretation. Standard Edition, 19, 72-105.
London: Hogarth Press.
--------. (1922). Dreams and telepathy. Standard Edition,
18, 197-220. London: Hogarth Press.
--------. (1914-1917). A metapsychological supplement to
the theory of dreams. In Vol. 14, The Complete
Psychological Works of Sigmund Freud (Standard
Edition, pp. 222-235). London: Hogarth Press.
--------.(1912/1924). The employment of
dream-interpretation in psycho-analysis. In Collected
Papers, II. London: Hogarth Press.
--------. (1913a). An evidential dream. Standard Edition,
12, 269-277.
--------.(1913b). The occurrence in dreams of material from
fairy-tales. Standard Edition, 12, 281-287. London:
Hogarth Press.
--------. (1911). The handling of dream interpretation in
psycho-analysis. Standard Edition, 12, 91-96. London:
Hogarth Press.
--------. (1908). Creative writers and day-dreaming. In
Charles Kaplan and William Anderson (Eds.), Criticism:
Major Statements,3rd Edition, 1991.
--------. (1907/1906) Delusions and dreams in Jensen's
Graviva. Standard Edition, 9, 7-95. London: Hogarth
Press.
--------. (1901-1904). On Dreams. In Vol. 5, The Complete
Psychological Works of Sigmund Freud. Standard Edition.
London: Hogarth Press. 633-686.
--------. (1978; first published 1900). The Interpretation
of Dreams. A. A. Brill (Trans.) New York: The Modern
Library.
Freud, S. & Oppenheim, D. E. (1958). Dreams in Folklore.
New York: International Universities Press, Inc.
===============================================
DREAMS AND COMMENTS
===============================================
======Commentary on Viking's "The Door, the Limo and the
TV" by Bob (see vol. 2, no. 2)======
The dream is apparently about boundaries, or
rather, the lack of boundaries. The dreamer's boundaries
are virtually non-existent. A white limo enters the
dreamer's driveway. A strange man enters his bathroom.
His young daughter is able to leave the house without his
knowledge and/or permission. There's very little
communicating going on. There is a lot of noise, which can
be defined as non-communicative sound. At the end, the
dreamer realizes he is to blame for the things that are
missing in his life (i.e. he "left the door open" and the
people in the white limo were able to take property that
rightfully belongs to the dreamer.
As the dreamer chases after the limo it's too late
to get its license number. "Getting someone's number" is
often used as a slang term for discerning someone's
disguised intentions. The dreamer is also concerned that
his mistakes also affect the welfare of significant others
in his life ("I came back in and kept thinking how Vesta
was going to kill me for leaving the front door open.")
There is also a hint that the dreamer is trying to be
honest with himself and/or (i.e., taking a shower could
symbolize the dreamer wants to "come clean" or be honest
but it not clear in the dream if he succeeds because he
only "thinks" he went to take a shower. That may be his
dream mind's message to him.
As always, if the dreamer disagrees with this
interpretation then it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows.
======Further Comments on Cathy's 'Blue Potion' dream by
Jay (see vol.2, no. 2)======
It seems that I may be pushing an interpretation
that doesn't fit or the dreamer doesn't accept, and
therefor, has more to do with me than with the dreamer.
None the less.
Have you noticed that sometimes you call it a
'potent' and sometimes a potion. I indirectly pointed this
out by calling this your 'potent potion' dream, but you
edited that out. In any event, the potion certainly seems
to be potent. [Cathy's note--I missed that! My editing it
out does seem to indicate a block to see the potion as
potent]
Have you come up with any associations or feelings
about what the potion represents for you? [Cathy's
note--the suggestions that the potion concerned aging seems
to be very appropriate as I near 30]
Actually, I see a similarity between this dream and
your previous 'voyeurs' dream. [see vol.1 no. 20 for this
dream] It also had a sensual woman in it, the woman eating
candy on the floor. Indeed, I see a common thread in your
dream, Richard's 'vampire' dream [see vol.2 no. 2], and my
'dogs' dream [see vol.2 no. 1] in that they all could be
viewed as dealing with the struggle to repress feelings
which we don't feel are appropriate, and the pain that
results. I'm not saying that we are bad for having the
feelings nor whether it is better to repress them or better
to express them. Actually, I guess I believe it probably
would be better to express them in some form or other. The
problem, it seems to me, is how to express them in a
positive, productive manner. How to make use of their
energy in a useful manner.
I don't see your 'cruelty' to the second woman as
hurting someone else, but rather, as you hurting yourself
in your conflict about the potion verses the perfume.
Again, I hope this is helpful to you.
======"Old Holiday Dream" or "CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE
FOURTH KIND" by Jim Blowers======
1991 December 28 - CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE FOURTH
KIND - I overheard from some people that there was going
to be a procession of lights in the sky; planes or
something. We tried to call nearby relatives that were
nevertheless long-distance. But we kept getting "da-da-da,
no such number" messages when we call direct, and calling
the operator yielded no answer or an answering machine. I
scrambled to get dressed go to out, but I kept getting
interrupted. Finally I went out.
I remember looking in a national science magazine.
I saw announcements of movies. Only movies; no specific
theaters or times, and only science-related movies.
The scene was mid-to-late sunset. It was in a
park, a wayside near a road. There was a slight rise away
from the road on the right, and a huge dropoff from there.
The rise itself had a peak on the right side with back to
road.
I looked in the sky. I thought it was a bright sky
at first, but there were too many stars, and they were
moving. Lots of scattered ones, but the central part was
in perfect square formation, very closely packed, about
3x10. But as they passed overhead and went on down to the
2-o-clock position, they increased and measured about
10x70. The scattered lights
increased, too. Shortly afterward, I woke up. I didn't
think the thing was a dream until shortly after I awoke,
and then I decided to write it all down.
------Background Notes by Jim------
I had a previous dream the same night about an endless
sequence of office rooms, cluttered, and files. I had
recently seen movies about the Japanese bombing of Pearl
Harbor; in particular the huge arrays of planes coming into
the harbor.
My religious background is Unitarian, a mix of humanist and
agnostic. Since 1991 I have become increasingly interested
in paganism. The flying lights scene needs to be drawn to
appreciate its beauty.
======Commentary on Jim's 'Close Encounters of the Fourth
Kind' by Jay======
I don't have much interpretation, mostly just
questions. On the face of it, it seems to be some kind of
wonderful experience of some mysterious beauty of the
universe. There just happens to be an article in the issue
of Dream Network (Vol 13.4) which I just received, entitled
'The Phenomena of Extraterrestrial-UFO Dreams', which
discusses dreams like this, though many of the dreams in
the article include aliens, which this dream doesn't.
What do the lights in the dream bring to your mind?
Why were you trying to call your relatives? Who else was a
part of the 'we' who were calling? It seems that science
did not have any information to contribute about these
lights.
The image of a sky full of lights, all moving, to
me is a magical unsettling awesome image. It doesn't
happen in the waking world. It would be as though nature
were entering a new phase of existence, the second coming,
or end of time perhaps. Just one square of lights, and the
reference to arrays of planes, however, makes it sound like
a smaller force, rather than the whole of nature.
======Commentary on Jim's "Close Encounters of the Fourth
Kind" by Bob======
The dream seems to be about a feeling of emotional
isolation (which is not an unusual phenomenon around
Christmas). In view of the dreamer's postscript note that
he was watching movies of the attack on Pearl Harbor, it
might be inferred that the "procession of lights in the
sky; planes or something" evoked a feeling in the dreamer
of an impending attack. He "tried to call nearby
relatives that were nevertheless long-distance"
(emotionally distant?) but could not connect with them. He
then scrambles to get dressed (clothing is protective
covering) but is constantly interrupted (i.e. he remains
vulnerable for a prolonged period of time in the house).
Finally he leaves the house (leaves the area in which he
cannot connect with others and is vulnerable. Could this
be a metaphor for the dreamer's actual house/family?)
The dreamer is next looking through a science
magazine at movie announcements of science-related movies,
but with no times or specific theaters listed. Movies are
often thought of as a temporary "escape" from reality
because the viewer's attention is riveted to the screen.
Movies also usually involve stories of fictional characters
whose behavior is motivated by emotions. By going to a
science movie the dreamer can escape from (his) reality but
avoids having to deal with emotional involvement (or its
lack in his life) for a period of time. The problem
appears to be that the dreamer wants to escape but can't
because he doesn't know where to go to get temporary
relief; i.e. there are not times or specific theaters
mentioned.
The next part of the dream "was mid-to-late
sunset." This indicates that the dreamer feels it is
getting late for something to happen in his life. The park
may indicate the dreamer feels "parked" or stymied, and
"off the road." In dream symbology the right also
indicates the future, and if that is an accurate
interpretation in this dream, then the dreamer is concerned
that what awaits him in the future is a "huge dropoff" or
fall in some area of his
life.
Lastly, the stars in formation seem to indicate a
threat or danger (i.e. the packed formation may refer to
the Pearl Harbor movies that the dreamer saw prior to the
dream) that the dreamer cannot define except that the
threat may lie in an excess of something ("there were too
many stars", and a threat that is growing as time passes
(i.e. the star formation moves from overhead or 12 o'clock
position to a 2:00 position).
If the dreamer disagrees with the above
interpretation then it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows.
======Commentary on Jim's "Close Encounters of the Fourth
Kind" by Richard======
I wanted to experiment here with two narrow directions, one
where
dreams point back to themselves and the other were they
refer to
something beyond themselves.
If this were my dream I would be interesting the
relationship to the object of desire. It appears for me as
centering on the flying objects and the gathering of
relations. Two forces seem to create the interplay, the
dreamer's desire to see and have others see the flying
objects, and the frustrating (interruption) of the
obtainment of this wish. Why would the dream try to
frustrate or interrupt a wish? Is the Freudian notion that
the dream is just trying to balance repression with
expression satisfying to us? I want to posit here that the
frustration of the wish allows for the reality of the
fantasy and the unfolding of the desire. Notice what
happens when the dream ego finally "gets" what it wants -
the show is over, the plot shifts.
This makes the frustration/interruption out as
another essential character in the play rather than just a
problem or obstacle. An inviable, off stage player like the
flying objects themselves, the frustration might be for me
a teacher. The frustration slows me down, it dis-connects
me from the phone, it interrupts my having what I want thus
increasing my connection to the desire itself.
But I don't wish to be psychological here. If this
were my dream I would want to find some way to help the
desire, with its necessary interruptions, begin to unfold
itself. It seems its already doing this.
Whatever the flying objects are, they are able to
produce fantasy and desire, and to create ways of keeping
this show going in an intense way. The suggestion I get
from the dream is that the container for this desire will
come from the dreamer's ability to be with, yet not grab,
the thing itself, (which seems be developing quite nicely
as evidenced by the dreamer's ability to both allow for odd
shifts and yet return to the main theme).
Its interesting to note that Jung's take on visions
of UFO's as manifestations of the Self reflected an era
where UFO's were like the God/Devil, either coming to
destroy or save us. Now that we have become a society which
has moved even further from talk about God/Devil, we
encounter visions and fantasies of aliens coming to
experiment on
us.
Is this a projection of our eternal loneliness, and
we now like to fantasize that something out there still
might think we are interesting and deserve attention? I
guess earth-girls have always been easy and gotten
extraterrestrial attention, but the abduction stuff seems
more contemporary. My main point in this was that I found
it interesting that there was not a vision in this dream of
one, singular UFO, but a whole celestial array.
Does the Jungian idea of the projection of the
Mandalic Self hold up under multiplicity? It seems that
this dream is struggling with this issue, and is in my
mind furthered by the reference to agnostic and especially
pagan day-world interests. If this were my dream I would
want to find ways of rendering or bring out the spirit of
the vision in my everyday life.
I take this clue from the strong feeling the
dreamer had about the dream seeming so real, and only being
a dream after awakening. I can't help mentioning that this
(the feeling-its-real) is a big part of the alien
abductionists theory. See Dean M. McClanahan's new article
in _Dream Network_ 13(4), "The Phenomena of
extraterrestrial-UFO dreams". I don't believe or not
believe in all this, its just doesn't interest me much as a
literal happening as much as our response to it interests
me. The question for me is not "Is it true" but, "Wow, this
all make me feel things I don't normally feel, what can I
do with and within this alien modality? What new freedoms
and opportunities and pleasures are now available?" Linda
Magallon once said to me about UFO dreams, "*We* are the
aliens!"
======"THIS, THAT, AND HERE STREETS" by Jim======
1995 February 12 0815am, after 7h 22m of sleep, second
dream (not third)
I was at a place where they were building new
streets. It was a small town on a river, and a bridge led
from this, but it seemed initially not to an urban area,
but into some woods, although I never remembered this in
this dream.
It seemed near my workplace. The houses were old
brick buildings, and except for two main rutty streets, all
the streets were alleys. The two main streets,
perpendicular to the river, were called some pair of names,
perhaps This and That streets.
I attended regular meetings on these streets,
mainly This Street. I saw that it was getting harder to
park in this area. One time I tried it and wound up parking
in an urban area. I got assigned somehow to helping build
more streets. I was to go over and help by putting bricks
in place and so forth. It seemed that the alleys and even
parts of This and That street were made of brick.
The new street being built was across the river, so
I went over there with another person. That Street led
across the river to another street across the bridge, which
was under construction. The guy replied that the person
who came with me, an Army captain, who came up with the
plans for this street was going to call it Here Street.
The scene there was a typical construction mess with a
street being elevated by pylons in the river and on shore.
Back home I tried to park in that place but I had
some compunctions about it because it was opposite a store.
This store was at the intersection of Main and That
Streets; it was on the side of That Street away from This
Street. So I went down That Street and took a short cut
across some alleys in a zigzag towards This Street, going
by a high brick tower. I still could not find parking.
======Commentary by Jay on Jim's "This, That and Here
Streets"======
This dream has an unusual feel to me. Very dry,
little mention of feelings, almost no other characters, the
unusual names for the streets, so logical and abstract.
Are these the actual names that occurred in the dream or
names that Jim substituted for the actual dream names?
Most of the dream is centered around the small town
side of the river yet the street named 'Here' is on the
other side of the river.
What do 'this and that', bricks, alleys, rutty, and
army captains bring to Jim's mind?
Bricks seem to predominate through out this dream.
They remind me of solidness.
The dominate issue seems to be the difficulty
encountered in parking in the small town of 'this and that'
where the workplace, meetings, store and tower are, ending
up in the urban 'here' instead. Also, others are building
the new streets in the small town, but Jim ends up doing
his building on the urban side. Jim seems to want to be
'parked' in, and be a part of, the small town but is 'here'
in the urban town instead.
I hope this is helpful to Jim.
======Commentary by Richard on Jim's "This, That and Here
Streets"======
"What a odd little dream," said Alice.
"Yes," said the red flower, "It seems to swim in two rivers
at once!"
If this were my dream, I would see it as a helpful
image in locating myself within a new project under
construction. I would spend some time getting a feel for
the inner landscape. Where is my forest and how do I
access it? Is my forest that place where I wander off for
peace and quiet, or is it a potential area that I see as
ripe for development? Where is my river? Does the source
come near the forest, or is it so wild I need to build
paths across it? How might I facilitate this construction
if that is my commitment? Where are my new projects and is
there an Army captain in charge? Is that the way I want
this new town to develop, is it OK that the Army captain
gets to name and control the construction of the paths?
I question the Army captain only because there is a
missing yet present figure in the dream, a trickster of
sorts that I feel is delighting in displacing nouns names
with place signifiers, here, there, this, that. for me,
this functions to set up two different street maps, a
physical one designated by geographic metaphors and a more
whimsical one set up by adverbial play. I say whimsical
because it feels there is an attempt in the beginning to
say the names of the streets could be something, but there
is some arbitrary movement to dismiss the names. In
English, when we want to say something is not important, we
can say its "Neither here nor there."
Yet by the time we get to the Army Captain, I get
the feeling of a second logic developing, as if the captain
may have literally wanted to name the street Here. Its
unclear to me why the store presents
problems,("compunctions" due to something the store itself
holds or just that it might be in the store's territory?)
but it is clear that a new desire enters in. If this were
my dream I might call this the desire to have the new town,
the new construction, the new self somehow connect to home.
And here I would emphasize a metaphorical home, the inner
place from where we came and were we deeply touch base,
where we park, or try to. This dream provides a desire to
have that place and the desire's frustration in this being
so. Its as if I want to consolidate a growing new area in
my life (or in my soul) on one hand with an older, more
comfortable one on the other. However, is this desire
frustrated in the dream in order to frustrate that in my
life, or is the frustration simply function to give the
desire some time to play out and come into consciousness so
I have an opportunity to creatively act on it as I choose?
It is, after all, on Main street.
Well, I can see I fallen into a classical reading
of the dream as a "human potential" dream, so I might as
well play this out. What is the solution offered by the
dream to the problem of getting where we want to go? It
seems to be the problem posed by the Myth of Theseus and
the task of getting through the Maze (the zig, zag alleys
between That to This). William Stekel often mentioned "The
Labyrinth" in dreams and saw them as the knot were memories
get tangled. The key, mythically, seems to be in going in
and dealing with the Beast, the Minotaur, and also having a
guide (Ariande's thread). Is this something like going into
ourselves and slaying the father's monster? I don't quite
get that from this dream.
What is found in the labyrinth is not a monster but
a Tower. Another very intense symbol. In my fantasy, the
tower can at least *see* both the home and the new
construction, but the connection would still only be a
vision rather than a reality. Anyway, if this were my
dream I would experiment with it as a connector dream, a
way of exploring new projects, how they are going, how they
fit with the past (home) and where I can park my vehicles
(metaphorical vehicles, what gets you There, how you
travel), paying especially close attention to the areas
where I get lost trying to take short cuts or making my own
way. Hmmm. Perhaps the bridge between Home and Here is
something like the zig zag path that is neither completely
constructed like my ego activities, yet not fully formed
either like Home. Great dream.
======"Alien Experiments" by Richard======
I've just witnessed or seen the last of a series of
"Alien" movies. I recall the horror as everyone has to
leave or be destroyed. Then another film begins, a new
"Alien" movie and I'm in it as a boy about 7 or 8 years
old. I'm being held at some kind of facility. For some
reason unknown to me, I'm the only one that they think will
be able to negotiate with the alien. They have one that is
just barely contained at a special facility. But there is a
background paranoid sense that the boy is just being used
and will be destroyed by the alien and the people who run
the place aren't telling him or anyone else this.
I disobey and wander around the facility. It's just
like any other corporation. People are coming into work and
talking with one another. I'm particularly drawn to listen
to this one guy who is a real player and has convinced
another guy to go along with him in a gag on a third party.
I can walk around pretty much unnoticed as I'm a child and
they don't know my destiny. They do something with the
telephone connection closet, thousands of wires here and
its right next to the alien cell. The boy has the feeling
that they may short something and this will be an essential
key to the alien getting away.
======"breaking up is hard to do" by Stan======
DATE : 10 FEB 1995 06:23
-( just another typical night at welding class. later i
read rather a lot in the _history and disease_ which i have
found to be disappointing, too speculative with little
evidence and not much references. the author is obviously
a doctor who knows the diseases and not much of a
historian. went to sleep near 23:30. )-
i am at a large university, and i am a student,
master's graduate level. i am driving a long stretch
limousine with a pretty blonde woman, martha williams, who
i knew as a kid from the baptist church. she is sitting in
back, although i am not just a chauffeur because i have
borrowed this long car from someone i know.
it is early evening, the sun just setting. i pull
over in a parking zone that parallels a long lake in the
middle of campus. i get out of the car in order to get in
the back section with martha. we watch the sunset and
birds around the water. she is fretting about something, i
can tell. i try to comfort her by putting my hand on the
back of her neck. before i can say anything, she has
turned into my arms and is kissing me. it sure feels good,
and slowly she heats up almost into passion.
then she breaks away, a worried look on her face.
"i need to go take a shower and clean up," she says to me.
"can you drop me off at the women's gym and i will meet you
later this evening by the school of education? i would
like to continue this, but i have some things i must take
care of first."
i agree and start up the car. it is rather
difficult to reach through the front seat to the controls
but i manage to do so. just reached right through the
seat. the arms to the steering wheel is not so difficult,
but the feet to the pedals are crowded and further to
reach. as i pull out of the parking area, i see a couple
campus police cars lurking beyond on the grassy areas. i
hope they did not mind us stopping to kiss. i get to the
corner stop sign and have some trouble reaching the brake
pedal. the car stops but in a liquid gliding motion where
the back end stops first and whole vehicle stretches until
the front end stops. then the rear portion creeps forward
to resume its normal shape. this has caused the car to
overshoot the stopping place before the intersection.
fortunately,
no one is coming on the through street so i quickly turn
left and
resume.
further down the next block i pull over and martha
gets out. she kisses me once very long and says she is
looking forward to seeing me tonight. there is a worried
look in her eye, but i do not think it has to do with me.
as she walks across the street to the women's gym, i watch
her go. she is certainly nice looking from behind. i start
up the car, this time from the driver's seat and return it
to my friend some blocks ahead.
i have a couple hours to kill before i am to meet
up with martha, so i walk around the buildings, enjoying
the evening. what a fine night i am hoping for. i pass
the women's gym where i believe she is inside showering.
next over is a stadium where a crowd of people are starting
to gather for some competition. between the two is a
terrace area with a lot of steps and stone railings. i
turn a corner and i see martha on the next terrace up,
talking with terry roof. she has been going steady forever
with him, everyone expecting them to get married and i
presume they live together. he is considerably more
muscular than when i knew him and his hair is shoulder
length and as blonde as hers. he seems to be an athletic
star of the campus.
i am out of range to hear what they are saying, and
i do not want to intrude on their space. her hair is still
wet from the shower, combed back straight and giving her a
determined and hard look. i sit down on the steps under
the cover of the stone railing. just as i do, i see martha
hand terry back his college ring and he is shaking his head
in denial. i understand now what she was so worried about.
i had completely forgotten about her long time relationship
with this guy.
i wish i had just slipped away from here and left
her a great distance in which to talk with terry. but i am
worried that her resolve will falter and so i am stuck in
place. in their now heated conversation, they pass the
head of the stairs where i am seated. terry sees me and
his eyes tighten with anger. i smile back lamely, more
worried about the discomfort he is feeling than any fear
for myself. martha then sees me and her face lights up
with a sad happiness. i do not get up or say anything,
just sit there nearby and let them continue.
now terry seems to be thundering some sort of
threats, but martha stands her ground unworried now. the
more he gets angry, the more it seems to strengthen her.
he is not realizing this, apparently concerned for himself
and being unable to strengthen what he wants, he is instead
tearing it further apart. perhaps he needs this too.
after a while he has spent his fury and now turns away with
a shrug and gesture of dismissal. martha comes down the
stairs toward me. a couple tears have run out of her right
eye, but now she is smiling. she has a strong determined
look of anticipation as she has done what she believes to
be the right thing. i stand up to meet her and just take
her hands. nothing is said, we just stand there and let
the heat of terry's anger dissolve into the air.
i see terry come up behind her, but she does not
notice, now a little desensitized by all the preceding
turmoil. he reaches up to a branch on a tree and hangs
there his college ring she has returned to him, looped into
a plain gold chain he had been wearing. i guess she had
given him that chain at some point. at first i think this
is an acceptance of the lost bond and so a dismissal of the
symbols. but as i see him walking away i get the
premonition of a suicide attempt for revenge sake. oh
crap, now what? i have not been active at all in this and
martha is quickly winding down into a mild form of
emotional shock.
scooping her up into my arms, like some comic-book
hero, i start to carry her away. not so much to anywhere,
but just to distance her in case that guy does attempt some
further desperate displays. walking does not seem
effective enough, so i lean forward to fly across a parkway
with a lot of traffic. martha just snuggles into my chest
and closes her eyes with a contented sigh. i am
unaccustomed to carrying any burden when i fly, so the
concentration i need to maintain is much greater than
usual. i find an area with a secluded stone bench and put
her down.
"you wait right here," i tell her. "there is
something i must look into but i will be right back." she
seems grateful to have a little time to herself. i suspect
she will need a little contemplation to get back into her
normal self after the emotional loss of face. especially
difficult since i happened to be there, which i would have
avoided had i known. i was pretty dumb about that i feel.
after i step through the concealing bushes, i start
to fly back the way i came. i do not know what i can do,
but i had the impression of terry throwing himself off the
stadium to make a big public display of his despair. if i
can get there in time, perhaps i can fly up and catch him
so to save martha the discomfort of his revenge. i still
sense basically an anger in him at what he has lost, rather
than a true loss of happiness. i got the impression that
good feeling had left their relationship long ago, so only
the habits of possession held them together. somehow i had
become her catalyst out of that.
but i quickly find that i am too tired to fly much
further. i skid into the ground on my chest and shoulder.
i get up and try to walk quickly toward the stadium. but i
am not even making good time on foot. i do not know if i
have the energy to prevent a death plunge.
when i get closer, i can see i was worried for the
wrong thing. there is terry now surrounded by a group of
his relatives and friends. he is loudly proclaiming his
anger and unhappiness. indeed, it seems to have taken a
show quality the more he gets into it. now that he has his
support group to help him defuse, i turn back.
when i get back to martha at the bench, she is
standing and looking into the bushes. she turns as i walk
in. she has recovered her sense of certainty. i take her
into my arms and we kiss with such a directness, that even
tired as i am, a surge of energy flows through us and we
take off ballistic like a bottle rocket. kissing and
kissing, and squeezing closer and closer, we twist and turn
in uncontrolled flight across the campus. finally she
breaks herself away, rearing back her neck so her face is
straight into the air stream. shaking her head as her damp
hair comes free, she laughs out loud, deep in her throat,
"i knew it would be like this!"
i am pleased for her too, but the mental flow
through me is beyond exhaustion now. my insides ache like
they have been wrung and dried. although the flight energy
is still fuming out, our trajectory is nearly parallel to
the ground and only a couple feet high. we are streaming
along like a double rocket just above the ground. with a
sigh i release the propulsion and my back again scrapes
along the gravel. this is the second time tonight i have
skidded to stop. my flying is just not up to control for
some reason. i had hunched forward to protect her arms
around my neck from abrasion.
we get up out of the dust, brushing each other off
and laughing. yes, it seems like quite a night ahead of
us. i can hardly wait.
sometime later we are in a small restaurant with
lots of weathered wood and decorative plants. it is one of
those new age vegetarian type places. martha has ordered
conservatively, saying that we won't have much money for a
while. one of terry's relatives at the next table says,
"oh great first we have to put with you getting things
together with our nephew, and now you have to start all
over again with someone new."
"yes, you have to put with that." martha smiles.
"nothing that is worth having ever comes easy."
-(alarm rings a 05:55 and i am well awake and feeling
really good.)-
======Commentary by Richard on "breaking up is hard to do"
by stan kulikowski ii======
If this were my dream, I'd be glad I wrote it down
(and could write it down so well). I'd want to savor these
images and roll them around in my imagination for the
sheer pleasure of it all. I would find it hard to respond
to this dream, as it is almost seamless. Freud said there
is a navel in the heart of every dream that is
impenetrable, but this dream seem to be lacking this navel
quality so I'm going to shift to Jung and preface my
comments with the statement that I don't think this dream
*needs* a response, I just like given them.
So, If this were my dream I would translate the
people to inner people. Martha as Anima, my unknown mate
as psyche. Terry as Shadow, the part of myself I see as
morally inferior but holds beyond its doors the ultimate
mate. In a "normal" progression, Terry would have been
fought with, like a monster slain to obtain the princess,
one of many tasks of the King Father. But here the King
father seems absent. Rather, Martha herself has become her
own father and decided to leave Terry. From a feminist
perspective, we might note that she doesn't really get a
chance to be on her own,but moves form one man to another.
If this were my dream I might ask myself if I always
harnessed my imagination to tasks, or if I allowed my
imagination to be on its own at times.
There is a sort of fight. Terry threatens, but to
what? To self destruction. I guess this is often our
struggle with the Shadow. To follow its moral inferior
path would lead to debauchery and self destruction. In
this case, without Martha, without the mediatrix of the
unknown, the Shadow despairs....almost. It seems to be the
collective group that saves the Shadow. Is this like
confession or what? We give our sins out to the community,
and in doing so we find redemption. Or the Shadow finds
redemption, anyway. Very interesting. This is the path of
the writer, isn't it? Exposure, constant exposure.
This flying is interesting. Now the dream ego can
fly away with Martha. But this flight of the imagination
is tempered and full of physical concerns, concerns about
scraping the bodies on the earth,the pavement. And so she
functions not only as the reason to fly away, but also the
thing that keeps the flyer grounded. Normally Jung
considered the separation of Anima and Mother to be
important , but here retaining some earth seems to keep the
couple from flying off.
If this were my dream I would wonder if I were not
willing to much. I mean willing in terms of exerting to
much effort on my part when in contact with my inner
mediator of the unknown. I feel very conservative today, so
I'm going to push this point a little more. What is flying
in dreams anyway? Well, many things, from escape to frolic,
from elevation to inflation. But all of them involve an
interesting mix of conscious and unconscious elements in
that we have broken with the normal fabric of reality, yet
in a way are working with reality. For to *not* fly in a
dream (or not realize you can fly) speaks to a larger sense
of unconsciousness than flying, since flying indicates that
to some degree you *know* you are dreaming. But there may
be another way to fly in dreams, which I see here. If we
exert the will to go forward, our body image will, to some
degree, follow.
What is the factor then, that allows us to believe
its normal to fly and still not have it turn into a lucid
dream? I can only name this Desire that transcends the
boundaries of reality, a kind of Anima structure itself
that points to the sublime. But the beauty of this dream
is that the Anima, Martha, recognizes this problem herself.
At the end Martha and the dreamer talk about the earned and
the unearned. Here she aligns herself to one of her
namesakes, Martha of the bible, the worker as opposed to
Mary her sister. And so perhaps an appropriate return
from whence she came (The Baptist girl). Now the couple,
regardless of what brought them together, can do the work
that, as Martha implies, makes it all worth it. So, briefly
stated, if this were my dream I would see it as an
invitation by my passion to join forces and create a
beautiful relationship.
======"Nightmare" by Cathy======
Warning: The end of this dream is very disturbing,
disgusting, and violent. Don't read it, if you can't
handle body mutilation.
I was in a basement room with my mother and sister.
I think it was a laundry room. In the far corner of the
room of cold, plain, dirty concrete a series of creatures
keep "invading" the room. First some bugs, which we
ignored. Then sea creatures, crabs, shrimps, which we
noticed with surprise. Finally a huge, seven-foot tall
crab manifested in the middle of the room. It went after
my sister. All three of us fled.
Up on a ground-level floor of the huge compound, I
began to arrange search parties to look for my mother and
sister, who had not come up to this level. Somehow I was
in charge of a large group of people, including many small
girls. I made sure the young girls only went off in groups
to search the caverns below. I was worried about losing
more people in the lower levels.
I was left alone in a large rectangular room with
an adult white male, slender built, brown hair, and a
mustache. He had been helping direct the search. I
suddenly suspected that he had been responsible for
situation. I grabbed a sharp kitchen knife from a hanging
utensil rack and held it to the man's throat by standing on
a chair or something such that his head was at the level of
my chest. I threatened him, then began to cut off tufts of
his mustache. I couldn't really believe he was evil.
Then he pulled a needle on a wire through my left
nipple. I thought in shock, it can't really have pierced
my nipple or it would hurt more. I stabbed the knife into
his upper arm and tried to drag it across to his heart. He
took the wire and wrapped it around my feet and began to
cut them off with the razor sharp wire. I felt pain
throughout my dream-self. I could feel my feet being cut
off and the pain in my breast. I tried to drag the knife
over and it caught on his bones. The bones of his shoulder
were exposed and white, as I had some how hacked off all of
the flesh off his upper arm. As I tried to drag the knife
over the arm bone into the crest I thought, I will die
before I can push this knife into his heart. A spasm of
pain came over me, and I awoke.
======"Frisbee and House for Sale" by Viking======
A little setup first. Last night a guy called
about home mortgages, I guess my wife had talked to someone
a few weeks ago, and the guy was following up. We are
considering buying, but our credit rating sucks, so we
thought we would check out if we even come close to
qualifying.
The dream: I was driving through a suburb which is
not the greatest suburb in the area, however I went by a
very nice house that was for sale. I then went home and
told Val that I had seen a really nice house for sale, but
it was in a not too great location. I then went out of the
house I was in, which seemed to have very large windows.
When I went out into the back yard, some people were
playing Frisbee. An old friend, Dick, threw the Frisbee
to me and I picked it up and threw it back very wobbly. I
remember thinking that was a crappy throw.
So what do you all think? I know where the for
sale house came from, but the Frisbee game is a little odd.
Dick and I used to be close friends high school and
college. I meet him again just recently by accident on the
net and we've had a delightful mid-life summit. Maybe I
feel like he is giving me good stuff, but the stuff I
give back is not too good? Maybe I just feel like playing
Frisbee?
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