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The Avalyn Digest Volume 2 Issue 10
The Avalyn Digest Wed May 21, 1997 Volume 2 : Issue 10
There are 20 messages totalling 610 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Slowdive BBC Peel Session
2. ride dissapointment (3)
3. Ride
4. cd's needed
5. (no list content) TO ALL NEW YORKERS
6. FWD: ride's downhill run
7. News from Rachel! (3)
8. Rachel's rxn to piracy (6)
9. Rachel's rxn to piracy (NO REISSUES THANKYOU!) & where to find singles (2)
10. rachel's article
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 05:41:38 +0200 (MET DST)
From: chief@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Slowdive BBC Peel Session
On Thu, 8 May 1997, ALTONBARNS@aol.com wrote about: Slowdive BBC Peel Session
> One way of releasing some new slowdive material would be if as many of us as
> possible wrote to John Peel at the BBC asking for the Slowdive Peel Session
> to be released. Many other bands have had their tracks released on CD
> (Strange Fruit label), why not Slowdive?
>
> Well, my letters in the post!!
>
> John Peel
> B.B.C.
> Broadcasting House
> London
> W1A 1AA
And for us "foreigners" - don't forget the "UK" (or England) on that
letter.
A good idea - my letter will be in the mail tomorrow, or, wait a second,
can you e-mail Mr. Peel somewhere, somehow? That would be a lot easier,
cheaper and I bet more people would request it... Does anyone know?
//Erik (chief@lysator.liu.se)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:04:14 -0400
From: avalyn@chesco.com
Subject: Re: ride dissapointment
At 11:59 AM 5/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello! I must say that I was quite dissapointed by Ride's "Trauntula".
>It is a sheer upset! I was was delighted by the groovy sounds of "COL"
>that this release got me down. I do favor "Smile," but can anyone be
>nice enough to tell me if the other albums are in the same league with
>"COL"?
Ride's other two albums (Nowhere and Going Blank Again) and certainly not
in the same league with COL, because they are SOOOOOOOOOOO much beyond
COL's league! COL is teetering on being crap if ya ask me (and Taratula is
just a big piece of nothing). Nowhere and GBA are two of my absolute fav
albums and they continue to be even though Ride turned into such crap and
Andy's new band isn't too hot either. I still listen to all the pre-COL
stuff the time, they are just plain wonderful! bye ryan
----------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:08:49 -0400
From: avalyn@chesco.com
Subject: re: Ride
At 01:52 PM 5/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
>no, the other albums are not in the same league as "COL" (which i suppose
>is Carnival of Light). They are phenomenally better. "Nowhere" is one of
>the three greatest albums of all time (along with "Loveless" and s/t Stone
>Roses), perhaps the best. every song on this album has at one time been my
>favorite. Right now "Decay" is, especially played extremely loud with an
>ear pressed to a speaker. "smile" is great as well. "Today Forever" is one
>of the greatest e.p.'s ever released. "Going Blank Again" was the
>transition to the horrific demise, and is merely OK. The "Leave Them All
>Behind" e.p. is better to have than the whole "Going Blank Again" album.
>It is shame that this band has changed so much for the worse, for they had
>such potential. I saw them in Providence 1991 and my friend commented that
>it was the greatest moment of his life. Gage
I have to agree with you on everything you said here. Except I would rate
GBA i bit higher than just ok. LTAB is one of my fav songs and most of the
other songs are pretty cathcy tunes, though i certainly agree that it is no
Nowhere.
Have you heard Hurricane #1 yet? It's SOOOO average. Andy has lost it
forever.
bye ryan
---------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 03:22:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: JK1127@aol.com
Subject: cd's needed
please e-mail me or call me at 330-374-0577 if you have information on "blue
day", the 1st slowdive ep and "catch the breeze" ep. thank you.
---------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:54:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Moonstar9@aol.com
Subject: (no list content) TO ALL NEW YORKERS
*hipshaker* are playing at the spiral ( at 244 e houston by ave a) next
wed. at 7:00 pm. they are a cross between the swirlies, the sundays, and
the charlatans. cover is $6.00...
ps. the show is all ages...
---------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 16:07:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: grilledcheese <hotrod@grove.ufl.edu>
Subject: Re: ride dissapointment
> Ride's other two albums (Nowhere and Going Blank Again) and certainly not
> in the same league with COL, because they are SOOOOOOOOOOO much beyond
> COL's league! COL is teetering on being crap if ya ask me (and Taratula is
i can only read so many of these before being forced to reply. carnival of
light is a great record! don't think of it as a ride album, cos its not
really, its just a very good piece of music.. and i don't even like all
that 70ish stuff. as for the early stuff, now that's ride, excellent
stuff, i finally broke down and bought tarantula.. it does blow. kinda
like swervedriver at times (which is good), but i can only listen to about
half of the songs.
mike
----------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 05:19:19 +0200 (MET DST)
From: chief@lysator.liu.se
Subject: FWD: ride's downhill run
Forwarded (please remember to post to the "avalyn@lysator.liu.se" address)
message follows:
> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 20:38:28 -0400
> From: David Moyle <david.moyle@ns.sympatico.ca>
> Subject: ride's downhill run
(..... "Decay" is, especially played extremely loud with an
ear pressed to a speaker. "smile" is great as well. "Today Forever" is one
of the greatest e.p.'s ever released. "Going Blank Again" was the
transition to the horrific demise, and is merely OK. .....)
I agree with the last speaker, entirely.
Going Blank Again really did sound like they had too much studio time on
their hands, which for many is a blessing (refer Gage's "Loveless" comment)
but for poor old Ride it was not. There's always something frightening in
hearing a favourite band's new album for the first time...that worry that
the Red House Painters might go retro on you or that Clan Analog will
release a "Tarantula" of their own. Still, we should be judging any band as
they were when we were most affected by them.
David
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 05:19:46 +0200 (MET DST)
From: chief@lysator.liu.se
Subject: News from Rachel!
Hey - it's the latest Mojave 3 info - straight from Rachel!
(edited - private stuff cut out):
> Date: 06 May 97 08:13:17 EDT
> From: Rachel Goswell <101502.2725@CompuServe.COM>
> To: "INTERNET:chief@lysator.l" <chief@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: from Rachel.
just a quick update for you...we have finished demoing new material and are
currently choosing a producer. We hope to release a single in September, and
the album will follow early next year - Jan/Feb...it's a slow process don't
you know!
having read the list the only thing that disturbed me was the part about the
pirate cd of Blue Day that has been produced. This sort of thing doesn't
normally bother me as it is an inevitable pitfall of being in a band. But
I would urge people not to buy this stuff. It riles me that people who were
not in the band are making money out of us without our consent. We don't
make much money anyway, that's not the point. The point is it is illegal,
it affects us the band not you the buyer. and these people haven't the
nerve to ask our permisssion; because they know they are breaking the law.
How fucking rude can people get? Whoever you are, thanks alot! It's nice
to know we're being ripped off by more than just a few........
Regards,
Rachel.
-------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:33:18 -0400
From: avalyn@chesco.com
Subject: Re: ride dissapointment
>i can only read so many of these before being forced to reply. carnival of
>light is a great record! don't think of it as a ride album, cos its not
>really, its just a very good piece of music.. and i don't even like all
>that 70ish stuff. as for the early stuff, now that's ride, excellent
>stuff, i finally broke down and bought tarantula.. it does blow. kinda
>like swervedriver at times (which is good), but i can only listen to about
>half of the songs.
>
>mike
Kinda like Swervedriver?! Swervedriver are a darn good band and certainly
don't deserve being compared to Taratula, ya know? :)
bye ryan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 06:31:03 GMT
From: butterfly mcqueen <edhong@cybercomm.net>
Subject: Rachel's rxn to piracy
Rachel sez:
>having read the list the only thing that disturbed me was the part about the
>pirate cd of Blue Day that has been produced. This sort of thing doesn't
>normally bother me as it is an inevitable pitfall of being in a band. But
>I would urge people not to buy this stuff. It riles me that people who were
>not in the band are making money out of us without our consent. We don't
>make much money anyway, that's not the point. The point is it is illegal,
>it affects us the band not you the buyer. and these people haven't the
>nerve to ask our permisssion; because they know they are breaking the law.
>How fucking rude can people get? Whoever you are, thanks alot! It's nice
>to know we're being ripped off by more than just a few........
She's right -- BUT doesn't the demand for such an item show that some
reissues of old material would be justified? (Not just the Morningrise EP.)
I originally bought my copy of Blue Day of $40. $40 for a fucking
seven-song CD! Granted it's a damn good one, but no one should have to pay
kollectorskum prices for things like this. Same with Ecstasy & Wine, etc.
Therefore, when I was presented with an opportunity to trade in my Blue Day
CD for a CD with all of the same songs plus more, I took it -- I place no
value in collectibles. Of course, I feel a little guilty for supporting
someone who seems to be making profit from this -- for such an operation
could *maybe* be justified if zero profit were made. (Also if the band's
permission were had.) But then it's a question of quantifying costs -- how
much can the "pirate" legitimately ask for to compensate for the time and
effort (materials aside) s/he puts into such a thing? Very fuzzy area. In
any event, I'm not a rich kid -- and therefore it seems that I have to
compromise some of my ideals against my hunger for music. Of course, it
somewhat contradicts my love for music itself, also being a musician -- but
at some point I just give in.
It just bothers me that I would have to pay $150 to have MBV's first album,
a very bad album from what I've heard -- if I wanted a bad album, I'd
fucking go to Tower and pick up the latest offering by Bush or some bullshit....
How can the people who own the rights to these albums be so oblivious to the
demand for reissues? It strikes me as obvious that there is money to be
made, unless I'm missing something important. Anyway, that's it.
; ed
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:03:13 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Gregory KURZ A208 P5655 STERIA <kurz@stna.dgac.fr>
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy
butterfly mcqueen writes:
> She's right -- BUT doesn't the demand for such an item show that some
> reissues of old material would be justified? (Not just the Morningrise EP.)
> I originally bought my copy of Blue Day of $40. $40 for a fucking
> ...
> ...
> How can the people who own the rights to these albums be so oblivious to the
> demand for reissues? It strikes me as obvious that there is money to be
> made, unless I'm missing something important. Anyway, that's it.
>
> ; ed
I agree with Rachel. It's a fact that musicians must earn money from their
music as every worker do, and that piracy is a crime since someone makes
unauthorized benefits from their work. But my question (to Rachel) is : do you
still consider "Blue Day" as something you may earn money from ? If the answer
is yes, then why is it unavailable ? The only way to have it legally is to :
1) spend monthes (that's what I've done) visiting CD retailers until you find
a used one;
2) jump back in time to 1992, the year of its first release (I tried to
concentrate on my karma and the stars but nothing happened...)
So don't be surprised that some people make illegal copies and others buy them
(it's the law of demand and supply: there's a big demand but no legal supply)!
Can we call it piracy since there's no choise but buying illegal copies?
If you're really disturbed with it, do something ! Ask whoever have the legal
rights to distribute the music to do their job, WE (the people who listen to
your music because we love it) need it badly... I'd say that Ed is right!
On the other hand, I would be glad to send the money directly to you instead
of giving it to Creation, 4AD or the guy who sells illegal copies on the net :)
Legalize da music!!
-=GrEg=-
-------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:08:06 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Peter Peltonen <pisara@bizar.dystopia.fi>
Subject: Re: News from Rachel!
> normally bother me as it is an inevitable pitfall of being in a band. But
> I would urge people not to buy this stuff. It riles me that people who were
> not in the band are making money out of us without our consent. We don't
> make much money anyway, that's not the point. The point is it is illegal,
> it affects us the band not you the buyer. and these people haven't the
> nerve to ask our permisssion; because they know they are breaking the law.
I couldn't agree you more when talking about pirate copies made of CD's
_that are available_ for people to buy them. I live in Finland and I have
never seen a copy of Blue day - original or copy. I would gladly buy either
of those if I could because I desperately want to hear the music. Naturally
I would prefer the original but what can you do if you can't find one?
The question about bootlegs isn't all black and white - at least not for me.
--
Peter
pisara@dystopia.fi
------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:21:49 +0200
From: Jan.Sundstrom@ekuc.se (Jan Sundstrom)
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy
edhong@cybercomm.net,Internet writes:
> doesn't the demand for such an item show that some
> reissues of old material would be justified? (Not just the Morningrise
> EP.) I originally bought my copy of Blue Day of $40.
Well, I bought mine just as it was released, and still had to pay $20
or so. Blue Day is not a normal album, since it was marketed as being
ltd, and those buying it "invested in it" on that condition. The ads in
the magazines promised this was a one off, and wouldn't be released
anywhere else at a later date. Slowdive would let the original buyers
down if they broke this promise.
> Granted it's a damn good one, but no one should have to pay
> kollectorskum prices for things like this.
It's bound to happen with some records. All bands have rarities, which
fetch hilarious prices (Curve-Superblaster, Aphex Twin remix, Catherine
Wheel-Come Back Again, Capacity to Change, Swervedriver- Ejector Seat
promo CD). When it comes to collecting records, there's nothing called
human rights.
> How can the people who own the rights to these albums be so oblivious
> to the demand for reissues?
They may have reasons for not releasing stuff: some are ashamed of
their early stuff, and don't want it to get spread anymore (but the
fans still like it), other releases are tied to marketing stunts (like
Blue Day), others can't be released due to contractual problems.
As artist, you got to have the artistical freedom to release or not
release stuff.
Like artists making paintings, some weirdos don't sell them, just keep
them for them self. There's nothing you can do about it. (well, except
piracy ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:32:46 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Peter Peltonen <pisara@bizar.dystopia.fi>
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy
> She's right -- BUT doesn't the demand for such an item show that some
> reissues of old material would be justified? (Not just the Morningrise EP.)
> I originally bought my copy of Blue Day of $40. $40 for a fucking
> seven-song CD! Granted it's a damn good one, but no one should have to pay
> kollectorskum prices for things like this. Same with Ecstasy & Wine, etc.
Someone buys a used copy of Blue Day for 40$.
The band gets no money for it - only the seller (usually a blood
sucking rareties CD shop) does.
Someone buys a pirate copy of Blue Day for 20$.
The band gets no money here either.
Both have paid money for the original CD. So I don't quite see the point
here why I shouldn't buy the cheaper one. (Though I'd be happy if some-
one offered me even the 40$ one :)
Just my opinion,
--
Peter
pisara@dystopia.fi
---------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:46:23 -0500 (EST)
From: conspiracy? <bpadrian@iupui.edu>
Subject: Re: News from Rachel!
Bootlegs.
Tricky subject.
In the case of Slowdive, when they signed to creation, did they give
Creation exclusive rights to release their songs? Meaning, if say, I
wanted to re-release the Slowdive EP, would I have to go to creation and
arrange a royalty system, or would I have to ring up Neil and say, I want
to re-release your stuff, how do I pay you?
I have an idea, whay don't we ring up Alan from Creation, and all chip in
on the Slowdive list, and buy the rights to their songs;). Okay maybe
not:)
Luckily, I had a friend who made a tape for me, but I'm CONSTANTLY looking
for anything slowdive that I don't have. I'm pretty much in if I don't
have it and i see it in a store, I'm buying it.
Okay, here's a weird question, aimed at rachel, and up for general
discussion. How would you feel if someone pressed a slowdive bootleg of
older studio and rare songs in a good package with proper credit, sold it
for a reasonable price (normal CD price or less), and then send all
profits straight to the band? This is completely theoretical, but let's
say I produced a 70 minute CD with all the EP's and other such stuff, and
then pressed 1000 with nice covers and the like. Total cost including
some advertising and promotion would be like $3000 tops (if I could get
the songs for free). Then I sell them direct/wholesale for $5-$6 each,
and send Slowdive a check for $2000-$3000. However, no one would do that
much free work, and the illegality of it could land the band and myself in
court;)
theory, folks, theory.
besides, I wouldn't know how to unload 1000 CD's...
b e n a d r i a n - bpadrian@iupui.edu |
t h e s u n f l o w e r c o n s p i r a c y |
s o h c a h t o a |
http://cord.iupui.edu/~bpadrian |
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:21:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Milan D. Brych" <brych@haas.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy
> Well, I bought mine just as it was released, and still had to pay $20
> or so. Blue Day is not a normal album, since it was marketed as being
> ltd, and those buying it "invested in it" on that condition. The ads in
> the magazines promised this was a one off, and wouldn't be released
> anywhere else at a later date. Slowdive would let the original buyers
> down if they broke this promise.
Please get over it. Some people should just go and start a new hobby
like CB radio collecting. With investments, there are good and bad
ones. I hope for the sake of all those that don't have the Slowdive
"rare" gems, Creation re-releases it all. I'm a collector too, but I
wouldn't consider Slowdive to be any where near the top of a
"collectable" bands list. They are one of my favorites ever, but that
doesn't make them a good investment.
On another subject, I read Rachel's piece in the Big Takeover mag. Kudos
to her for really trying to stick it out for her fans. I think I can
speak for all Mojave fans that we really really appreciate it.
Milan
---------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:59:07 -0400
From: avalyn@chesco.com
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy (NO REISSUES THANKYOU!) & where to find singles
I have to agree with you on this issue Jan. If something is released as
limited, then it should never be released again. I hate when things are
reissued even if they weren't supposed to be limited. And the enormous
prices are just they way it is when something is rare. People are willing
to pay for the stuff so why shouldn't someone sell if for what they are
willing to pay? Stereolab singles cost $40 two months after they are
released, why because they are rare and people are willing to pay for it.
Now a record store charging more than the regular price when something
limited first comes out is wrong. Buying pirated cds is just wrong too.
It's rude to the bands (and obviously some agree). Somewhere along the
line they made money off that $40 used blueday, but they make nothing off
of some pirated cd. I know my opinion is swayed because I'm not just into
the music, but i'm into collecting it. A thrill for me is coming across
that special 7" i need. I don't mind paying $25 for it cause if it was
only $3 I'm sure it wouldn't be there for me to buy.
Anyway its not like Slowdive stuff is THAT rare. Maybe Blueday is, but
I've seen the singles around here and there and they are better than owning
just blueday anyway.
Go to reporecords.com and ask em what they have. I was there on Sat. and
they had one of the old eps plus Pygmalion and i think the 5ep.
bye ryan
----------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:33:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: grilledcheese <hotrod@grove.ufl.edu>
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy (NO REISSUES THANKYOU!) & where to find singles
> limited first comes out is wrong. Buying pirated cds is just wrong too.
> It's rude to the bands (and obviously some agree). Somewhere along the
this may sound way off base, and i know its wrong.. but youve got to
know where im coming from. i wish this anti-pirating uprising would have
happened AFTER i got a chance to get one of those oh so talked about CDs.
im really pissed about this, cos actually ill never get a chance to buy
the stuff "legitamatly". sometimes when yr desperate... youve got to bend
the rules, hell, id send the band $10 if i could to try to make things
better, but i guess it doesnt matter, the guy is probably not going to
sell any more after all the stink.
>>> How can the people who own the rights to these albums be so oblivious
>>> to the demand for reissues?
this i would like to know. unless its contractual reasons of course i
don't see why it would be bad. ..except for kolectorscum who for some
reason WANT the stuff to be hard to get.
mike
----------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:46:56 +0100
From: Jason Morehead <00161068@bigred.unl.edu>
Subject: rachel's article
hi all...
is the article rachel wrote for the big takeover on the web anywhere. if so,
could someone send me the url? thanks!
jason
-----------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:57:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: butterfly mcqueen <edhong@cybercomm.net>
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy
> Well, I bought mine just as it was released, and still had to pay $20
> or so. Blue Day is not a normal album, since it was marketed as being
> ltd, and those buying it "invested in it" on that condition. The ads in
> the magazines promised this was a one off, and wouldn't be released
> anywhere else at a later date. Slowdive would let the original buyers
> down if they broke this promise.
That's not salient in this case -- we're not talking about completism
here, about some obscure release not many would want aside from
collectible value. We're talking about a compilation of earlier stuff
that is in heavy demand because of its actual music content -- a
representation of Slowdive's early self. Not many want to go around
hunting for the separate EP's, though hearing Blue Day may motivate one
to do so in order to get the rest of the material.
And apparently the demand is far heavier than they originally estimated
-- I'm sure that they would have expanded output in the original run if
they knew that people would eat this shit up like they do. So your point
about going back on their word about Blue Day being a limited item, while
technically sound, is a misplacement of value. Fuck the "original fans"
who want to hoard the shit to themselves and let the CDs age and increase
in value. That's musical and financial elitism, and it has no place in
our "musicial commercial discourse," as it were.
>> kollectorskum prices for things like this.
>
> It's bound to happen with some records. All bands have rarities, which
> fetch hilarious prices (Curve-Superblaster, Aphex Twin remix, Catherine
> Wheel-Come Back Again, Capacity to Change, Swervedriver- Ejector Seat
> promo CD).
> When it comes to collecting records, there's nothing called human
> rights.
I think that's bullshit -- music should be an accessible thing.
No personal offense meant by the obscene language.... just disagreement.
Yours truly,
; ed
----------------------------------
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