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Scandinavian Indie Digest Vol 98 Issue 09
Scandinavian Indie Digest Sun, 25 Jan 1998 Volume 98 : Issue 9
Today's Topics:
SV: OK! DO NOT HANG ANDERS NUNSTEDT
Re: tortoise and more, ahum, postrock
Re: HANG ALI BABA
Re: orup
RAMA LAMA FA FA FA!
I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
Re: RAMA LAMA FA FA FA!
Gigs att Playground, Gothenburg.
Re: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
Re: HANG ANDERS NUNSTEDT
Re: orup/grand tone music/record stores
Sin's Music on the TV [23-Jan-98]
VB: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
Re: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
Re: Gigs att Playground, Gothenburg.
Re: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
Re: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
Musikjournalen Pop tomorrow
Re: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:21:54 +0100
From: "Micke Rehnstrom" <micre215@student.liu.se>
Subject: SV: OK! DO NOT HANG ANDERS NUNSTEDT
>> Perhaps hanging Mr Nunstedt is to stretch it a bit too far, I am still a
>> quite peaceful person. But if someone close to him reads this (I guess he
>> dont himself), could you please tell him that if he does not have a fucking
>> clue about what he is doing then he should do something else instead.
>
> Have you ever thought that words like this can hurt?!
> I used to work at Expressen Fredag (surprise!) and maybe AN writes like
> an idiot, and maybe he has what we in sweden call "noll koll", but I,
> for one, feel uneasy reading these lines...
Well, I said that I did not really want to see him dead, didnt I. And
perhaps it is good if he feels hurt, perhaps that makes him think about
what it actually is he is doing: he is writing in a news paper which, for
some reason, is being read by more than 400 000 people daily. That should
make him feel some kind of responsibility - a responsibility to give his
readers an adequate piece of information. OK, so the band names are similar
- perhaps I could have forgiven it if he had written the wrong name _once_
but here we are talking 4-5 times.
I also think that a reviewer has some kind of responsibility towards the
band he is reviewing. The guys in the band are also human beings and
perhaps they feel hurt about being treated in this way (or perhaps they are
happy not to be recognized as "the band Anders Nunstedt finds talented",
what do I know?). I do not think that the average Expressen reader is a
potential CARPET PEOPLE fan but perhaps his mistake will mean that a few
less people discover them - people who go to the record store and look for
that non-existing CARPE WADE album that sounded so interesting in that
review (well ok, that might sound as a long shot perhaps).
Mr Nunstedt calls himself a journalist. In my (naive?) opinion a journalist
should be someone who gives his readers/viewers/listeners an accurate
picture of the real world. If he cannot do that, if he cannot get the facts
straight, I repeat: then he should be doing something else!
/Micke
Ps: If Anders Nunstedt reads this he could perhaps also tell his colleague
Jenny Akerwall, who is responsible for the gig guide, that BACKYARD BABIES
is _not_ a "foreign band". ds.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:23:15 +0100 (MET)
From: per langstrom <pela0011@student.gu.se>
Subject: Re: tortoise and more, ahum, postrock
At 09.33 1998-01-23 +0100, Joris Gillet wrote:
> what I do like is Mogwai. and the tour list mentioned one date in Scan-
> dinavia but according to their own list they will do some more gigs, but
> why oh why won't they come to Gothenburg ?? it's not that there are too
> much bands coming here is it ?? 'cause if it is someone please tell me
> as far as I know there seems to be nothing happening here in the near
> future...
i agree, mogwai are the shit. but, why gothenburg has missed out
on the good bands that actually bother to come to scandinavia, i
don't really know. my guess would be that there isn't really any-
where to put on the shows and/or anybody with the interest/know-
ledge to do so. last year gothenburg missed out on highly regarded
acts like kerosene 454, superchunk, labradford, the van pelt and
countless others. i can't see it would be because of a lack of
interest, since both fuck and yo la tengo played for pretty big
crowds. it's just sad; bands will go all the way to both oslo and
stockholm from lund/malmoe/denmark, but not gothenburg which is
right inbetween. oh well, what can you but hop on the ferry to
england and see some of the bands that wouln't come here in a
million years anyway..
per
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:37:43 +0000
From: "johanna.hillgren" <johanna.hillgren@swipnet.se>
Subject: Re: HANG ALI BABA
Jan Sundstrom wrote:
>>> We're talking about real life people here, not some DJ in a Smiths
>>> song...
>>
>> Journalists are real people? Hahaha, give me a break. :-)
>
> Sorry, I'm a journalist too. Is this a flame bait??? Not very funny.
> Keep Scan Indie free from this crap, please.
Couldn't agree more with Jan. Stop your sorry-ass whining about everyone
getting bulldozed by journalists and try to look at it a bit more
open-minded and not like you've swallowed all those cliches.
Daniel / earning a living from being a journalist / real person / just
one of you indiemindieminymoesters.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:44:21 +0200 (EET)
From: Timo Riitamaa <timo.riitamaa@kolumbus.fi>
Subject: Re: orup
Magnus wrote:
> um... I just heard the new Orup song on the radio... "jag kommer
> over dig". How do you translate that one? "I'll come all over you"? :)
I seem to remember a certain Liverpudlian insect-band singing something
along the lines of that on their quite magnificient Abbey Road long player.
Tornado DaSilva, screaming "Jack O' Fire fucking rules!" through his
garage-infected lungs.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:44:23 +0200 (EET)
From: Timo Riitamaa <timo.riitamaa@kolumbus.fi>
Subject: RAMA LAMA FA FA FA!
Oh FUCK you all, how can you just sit there like cool indie-popsters looking
at the mirror every five minutes to see that the hairdoos OK and that
everybody can see that vintage watch on your wrist when there's a song like
Ett Fall & L'o'sning out there just waiting to be played eighteen times
repeatedly??!?!! (on vinyl!)... i feel like some idiot doing this... the
last time something like this happened was with the emperors of the
universe; Guided by Voices... i mean, i haven't been able to listen to
Flying Saucer Attack or the Harmony Of The Spheres box for days!
With Bob Hund, how can you listen to crap like Oasis?! see the light! see
the truth! the emotion! the rock! the roll!
Throw that cynicism away. just live it. don't get a life, get a rock'n'roll!
Tornado DaSilva.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:44:25 +0200 (EET)
From: Timo Riitamaa <timo.riitamaa@kolumbus.fi>
Subject: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
People have been writing:
>> Journalists are real people? Hahaha, give me a break. :-)
>
> Sorry, I'm a journalist too. Is this a flame bait??? Not very funny.
> Keep Scan Indie free from this crap, please.
Haha! I'm a journalist, and i'm not human!
and further, i think we journalists have deserved the criticism we get.
because we suck... well, i don't suck, i'm amazing, but most of us suck... i
mean, it's a fucking joke to have somebody tell others what's good and
what's bad music! it's like saying that there are some objective facts upon
which we can say if something is indeed good or bad... what makes me amazing
is (besides ofcourse writing incredibly wity and intelligent reviews
ofcourse!) is that i try to write only about music that people haven't heard
before... my job is not to tell you if the new Oasis is good (ofcourse it
isn't!) but to tell people about unknown bands that i find interesting and
worthy of the poor popsters hard-earned money.
Tornado DaSilva.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:47:57 +0100
From: j.sundstrom@ekuc.se (Jan Sundstrom)
Subject: Re: RAMA LAMA FA FA FA!
> ... there's a song like Ett Fall & L'o'sning out there just waiting
> to be played eighteen times repeatedly??!?!!
Yeah, when i hear it on radio and that line comes on:
"Tjaejerna har goett, jag ar oinspireraaad" and Thomas
is just yelling at you in scanian accent, it's just
marvellous, sending bolts thru your body!
and then comes the cue:
"Morsna slangde ut maj for att fa nagot svaaaar!"
It's freakin great!
Love Bob Hund,
Jan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:42:01 +0100
From: patrik@popstar.com
Subject: Gigs att Playground, Gothenburg.
Hmmmm......someone have got some information wrong here.
The tour-list from Luger contains two errors.
It is NOT true that:
#1. Graham Parker plays at Harrys Playground the 28th of March.
#2. Unsane plays at Harrys Playground the 26th of March.
It is not even true that there IS a place called HARRYS Playground.
Me and a friend are managing the club called Playground, and we have
moved the club from Harrys Restaurant to a place called "Jazzhuset"
(Jazzhouse). We heve our re-opening the 29th o January. At the opening
we will have a finnish band called "Larry & The Lefthanded" and maybe
some local acts.
Other bands coming up this spring will be:
Broder Daniel, Fly, Freewheel, Fiesta, Mopeds, Ceasars Palace, Brick,
The Pusjkins etc. I'll get back with the exact dates.
I had a discussion with Ola at Luger about Unsane, but i don't think
Playground is the best forum for Unsane to play. Hopefully we'll work
it out with some other club. I mean, Unsane is harder than steel. That
kind of music have its followers.
Sincerely
Patrik Herrstrom/Playground
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:23:36 +0000
From: "johanna.hillgren" <johanna.hillgren@swipnet.se>
Subject: Re: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
Timo Riitamaa wrote:
>>> Journalists are real people? Hahaha, give me a break. :-)
>>
>> Sorry, I'm a journalist too. Is this a flame bait??? Not very funny.
>> Keep Scan Indie free from this crap, please.
>
> Haha! I'm a journalist, and i'm not human!
>
> and further, i think we journalists have deserved the criticism we get.
> because we suck... well, i don't suck, i'm amazing, but most of us suck...
> i mean, it's a fucking joke to have somebody tell others what's good and
> what's bad music!
The point no-one seems to understand is that all guys and girls (also called
journalists) doing reviews of records/gigs/books/movies whatsoever are put on
their job to give a totally subjective view to if THEY like the album/movie/
book. It's not like they are trying to teach the world what's wrong or right,
is it? the truth is always in the eyes of the beholder...
> it's like saying that there are some objective facts upon
> which we can say if something is indeed good or bad...
like I just said, we're not looking for objectivism here. they are doing the
same thing as you're doing saying oasis are crap and bob hund the best. do
you see any difference more than that they reach a lot more people (that
hopefully are totally able to think for themselves).
> what makes me amazing is (besides ofcourse writing incredibly wity and
> intelligent reviews ofcourse!) is that i try to write only about music
> that people haven't heard before... my job is not to tell you if the
> new Oasis is good (ofcourse it isn't!) but to tell people about unknown
> bands that i find interesting and worthy of the poor popsters hard-earned
> money.
>
> Tornado DaSilva.
Good of you. For sure. I like that. But is there really a difference
between telling people how much you like Scott 4, Lo-Fidelity Allstars,
Gold Blade, and others telling how much they like Oasis latest album.
I can't see it anyway...
DANIEL
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:36:00 +0100
From: Erik Soderstrom <chief@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: HANG ANDERS NUNSTEDT
> This message is directed towards those perverts who read Expressen Fredag
> (I am one of those, I must confess) and who believe everything they read (I
> am certainly not one of those).
[snip]
Needless to say, Anders Nunstedt is as credible as a flagpole trying to
eat spaghetti with cucumber sauce (yeah, it's _that_ bad). We've slagged
him off on the list a number of times during the years, but I never
thought he'd last as a "music journalist" this long.
But it's not just Nunstedt - the whole "Expressen Fredag" crew is
killing their own paper by constantly proving they don't have a clue
to what they're writing about. Some of you may remember the example
list of errors in their tour list (which is handled by Robert Borjesson)
and that it actually got better after I had sent it off to him AND
the editor-in-chief (not when I only sent it to him). But he's back
at the bottom of the pit. Listing Backyard Babies in the "Foreign
bands" section and spelling Candysuck "Candy Sucks" etc. etc. etc.
Thankfully, I have stopped buying Expressen on fridays. Aftonbladet
"Puls" is about a million times better, and I actually know I can
believe what Hakan Steen and Per Bjurman write (most of the time
at least).
My 10 ore,
//Erik <chief@lysator.liu.se>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:50:42 +0100
From: Erik Soderstrom <chief@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: orup/grand tone music/record stores
> um... I just heard the new Orup song on the radio... "jag kommer
> over dig". How do you translate that one? "I'll come all over
> you"? :)
Ha ha ha!
> Anyways, for some reason I was looking in the latest issue of
> Damernas Varld (a Swedish women's magazine with pictures of a
> lot of hungry models)
You know, I did that too! I have never opened one of them before
but something just made me open this issue only to discover the
item on Grand Tone Music! Weird.
> "Winter-music for burning candles and thoughts about Norrland
> (that's the upper part of Sweden). Discreet Swedish band
> with nice details such as steelguitar. The singer has the same
> bright Swedish tone as the girl in Ace of Base."
>
> Uh.. that was a crappy translation but I'm sick and can't
> think alright. Anyways, I haven't heard Grand Tone Music
> yet (well I saw them live in Emmaboda but wasn't in the mood
> for that kind of music at the moment), even though Erik
> mail me every time they're on the radio :) but that wasn't
> a very nice thing to write, was it?
No, and I really can't believe she wrote that in a "sane"
state of mind. But as it is a "girliemag" (ever read the
music articles and reviews in teenage-female-youth mag
VeckoRevyn?) I'm not surprised. Though no one says that
the fantastic Nina Ramsby sounds like an Ace of Base
member and lives.... ;)
> Another thing: will record stores be the first "real" stores
> to get put out of business because of internet-shopping?
[snip]
I agree with you on most of what you wrote, but I believe the
record stores will still be around. Unless you'll be able to
get a record the same day you buy it over the net (automatic
burning of a CD over the net?) that is. It's like with the
online book stores - if you need your book _today_, you
have to go to the store. And you'll still drop by the record
store when you're downtown, just to take a look, right?
But I am, just like you, buying most records over the net.
More than often directly from the UK where I can get hold
of the stuff I want. And it's cheaper and faster too. When
it comes to domestic releases I buy them in the store tho'.
//Erik <chief@lysator.liu.se>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:17:45 +0100
From: Erik Soderstrom <chief@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Sin's Music on the TV [23-Jan-98]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scandinavian Indie MUSIC ON THE TV Scandinavian Indie
January 23 -> 29, 1998
by Erik Soderstrom <chief@lysator.liu.se>
Day Date Artist/What TV Program Channel Time
--- ----- ---------------------- ------------------- ----------- -----
Fri 23/1 Ian Brown, Klubb +
debate over music
journalism Musikmagasinet ZTV 00.15 R
Sat 24/1 Live Music Live Music MTV Europe 21.30 R
Sun 25/1 Europe Music Awards 97 MTV EMA 1997 MTV Europe 16.00 R
bob hund, Whale etc. Kalas ZTV 20.15
Mon 26/1 Ska special Musikmagasinet Rock ZTV 19.15
Video Top List Voxtopp SVT 1 19.45
Tue 27/1 Wu Tang Clan +
new bands presented in
the segment "Upp" Musikmagasinet ZTV 19.15
Alternative Nation Alternative Nation MTV Europe 00.00
Ska special Musikmagasinet Rock ZTV 00.15 R
Wed 28/1 Video Top List Voxpop SVT 1 19.00
Broder Daniel Musikmagasinet Pop ZTV 19.15
Rock Steady Crew Rock Steady Crew ZTV 21.00
Musikbyran Musikbyran SVT 1 22.30
Wu Tang Clan +
new bands presented in
the segment "Upp" Musikmagasinet ZTV 00.15 R
Thu 29/1 Finnish Top List Lista FTV 17.36
Strand-Rock Strand-Rock FTV 18.25
Klubb + How vinyl
records are made today
+ why there are so few
female producers Musikmagasinet ZTV 19.15
Oasis Live'N'Direct MTV Europe 20.00
Rock Steady Crew Rock Steady Crew ZTV 23.15 R
Broder Daniel Musikmagasinet Pop ZTV 00.15 R
R = Rerun
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is also available on the Scandinavian Indie website
at: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~chief/upcoming.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:04:15 +0100
From: "Micke Rehnstrom" <micre215@student.liu.se>
Subject: VB: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
Amazing to see how many journalists there seem to be on the list :-). And I
suspect there are many others lurking around in the shadows. Well, I am not
a journalist. It is true that I contribute to a few fanzines: reviewing
records and sometimes writing articles about bands I like and think deserve
more attention. But that does not make me a journalist, because it is not
my proffession (well, nothing is my proffession at the moment).
Anyway, Daniel wrote:
> The point no-one seems to understand is that all guys and girls (also called
> journalists) doing reviews of records/gigs/books/movies whatsoever are put on
> their job to give a totally subjective view to if THEY like the album/movie/
> book. It's not like they are trying to teach the world what's wrong
> or right, is it? the truth is always in the eyes of the beholder...
It is true that it would be stupid to consider a review to be "the truth",
it is (and should be) based on the reviewers personal opinion (except for
the name of the band and the record - not much space for different opinions
there!). Therefore, when I read reviews, I find the "is it good or bad"
part to be quite uninteresting. My primary interest is about how the record
sounds - what kind of music, comparisons to other artists, comparisons to
the artists previous records etc. Whether the reviewer likes or dislikes
the record and why he likes/dislikes it is of secondary importance to me.
Of course, after a while, I get to know the reviewers taste and if it
completely corresponds/not corresponds with my taste it becomes easier to
use his/her reviews as some kind of guidelines (but not as the "truth").
It is different with articles - they are not, primarily, meant to display
the writers opinion. They are either a) describing facts, ie the "truth" or
b) telling what someone else thinks, most of the time based on interviews
with this "someone else". And then the reader must be able to rely on that
the writer actually writes the "truth" or that he gives an accurate picture
of what the one being interviewed actually said. Even if this did not
happen in an article, I would have severe problems trusting someone who
cannot keep CARPET PEOPLE and CARPE WADE apart (and, it should be said, I
am also suspicious against that Sound Affects guy who claimed that the
latest HIM KEROSENE album was their debut album).
> Good of you. For sure. I like that. But is there really a difference between
> telling people how much you like Scott 4, Lo-Fidelity Allstars, Gold Blade,
> and others telling how much they like Oasis latest album. I can't see it
> anyway...
Perhaps there is no real difference in the task of writing/telling it. But
if we talk about writing articles I think there is a huge difference in the
_value_ of doing it. Even if we disregard my opinion about OASIS I would
have problems seeing any point in me writing anything about them. They have
already been everywhere in every type of media, even people who hate their
music know what they eat for breakfast and think about BLUR, and the
probability that I would be able to tell anything that people did not
already know would be extremely close to zero. _I_ rather write about
unknown bands, not because I necessarily think they are better (but mostly
I think they are) but because I think they deserve attention too. Perhaps I
may upset someone who actually has written about OASIS but, to be frank, to
write about them without coming up with anything that millions of people
does not already know sounds like a terrible waste of time! Maybe the
things I write about unknown bands are not new to their fans but there is a
much bigger probability, than in the case of the Gallagher brothers, that
someone formerly uninitiated reads it and becomes interested in the band.
That seems, to me, much more valuable than to just repeat what everyone
already knows.
/Micke, apologizing for this _long_ message
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:37:11 +0100 (MET)
From: per langstrom <pela0011@student.gu.se>
Subject: Re: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
At 12.23 1998-01-24 +0000, daniel wrote:
>Timo Riitamaa wrote:
>
>> and further, i think we journalists have deserved the criticism we get.
>> because we suck... well, i don't suck, i'm amazing, but most of us suck...
>> i mean, it's a fucking joke to have somebody tell others what's good and
>> what's bad music!
>
> The point no-one seems to understand is that all guys and girls (also called
> journalists) doing reviews of records/gigs/books/movies whatsoever are put
> on their job to give a totally subjective view to if THEY like the album/
> movie/book. It's not like they are trying to teach the world what's wrong
> or right, is it? the truth is always in the eyes of the beholder...
ever read a magazine called "pop"? no matter what they say, i can't help
_but_ getting the impression that they are indeed trying to teach me, as
the reader, what's right and wrong. not only do i find it dogmatic and
ignorant, i also find it pretty damn offensive - like i wouldn't be able
to figure out what i like and don't like on my own. (and, honestly, how
often do you see journalists state that their opinion is only their very
own and might not match with anybody else's? journalists assume that
everybody knows that their reviews and such are totally subjective, still
the journalists themselves never _ever_ say it! and why is that? well,
deep inside i think a lot of them want to be the "god of the tastes" and
be able to set the standards and dictate what's good and what's not, and
by doing so, reach the highest possible level of "coolness" and be adored
by the, obviously easily deluded, masses.)
btw, i totally agree with timo, reviews are a fucking joke and should be
taken with the biggest grain of salt.
>> it's like saying that there are some objective facts upon
>> which we can say if something is indeed good or bad...
>
> like I just said, we're not looking for objectivism here. they are doing
> the same thing as you're doing saying oasis are crap and bob hund the best.
> do you see any difference more than that they reach a lot more people (that
> hopefully are totally able to think for themselves).
seriously, isn't objectivism what you should be trying to aim at? i mean,
you might be the only person in the world liking/disliking that certain
band/record, still a lot of people take your opinions seriously enough to
actually check out bands and records based solely on your subjective opin-
ions. wouldn't a more general, less subjective, review be of more use to
a greater number of people, as you might be the only one who can't stand
that certain band because that's what you and your former girlfriend from
a couple of years back used to listen to?
>> what makes me amazing
>> is (besides ofcourse writing incredibly wity and intelligent reviews
>> ofcourse!) is that i try to write only about music that people haven't heard
>> before... my job is not to tell you if the new Oasis is good (ofcourse it
>> isn't!) but to tell people about unknown bands that i find interesting and
>> worthy of the poor popsters hard-earned money.
>
> Good of you. For sure. I like that. But is there really a difference between
> telling people how much you like Scott 4, Lo-Fidelity Allstars, Gold Blade,
> and others telling how much they like Oasis latest album. I can't see it
> anyway...
well then, what exactly is the point in telling people how much you like
the latest oasis album, when all people have to do to get to hear it them-
selves is to turn on the damn tv? if it's not one of the videos from the
album that's on, it's probably some fucking commercial promoting the album!
at least you are giving lesser known bands a chance to be heard when you
are telling people how much you like scott 4 or whatever..
but that's just my personal opinion,
per (unwinding unwound's "challenge for a civilized society")
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:43:57 +0100 (MET)
From: per langstrom <pela0011@student.gu.se>
Subject: Re: Gigs att Playground, Gothenburg.
At 23.42 1998-01-23 +0100, patrik@popstar.com wrote:
> Hmmmm......someone have got some information wrong here.
> The tour-list from Luger contains two errors.
> It is NOT true that:
> #2. Unsane plays at Harrys Playground the 26th of March.
Doh!
[snip]
> I had a discussion with Ola at Luger about Unsane, but i don't think
> Playground is the best forum for Unsane to play. Hopefully we'll work
> it out with some other club.
Woo hoo!
> I mean, Unsane is harder than steel. That kind of music have its followers.
Mmm... Unsane... I, Home.., no, Per is for sure one of them. Get them to GBG!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:53:25 +0100
From: Erik Soderstrom <chief@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
At 02:37 1998-01-25 +0100, per langstrom wrote:
> seriously, isn't objectivism what you should be trying to aim at? i mean,
> you might be the only person in the world liking/disliking that certain
> band/record, still a lot of people take your opinions seriously enough to
> actually check out bands and records based solely on your subjective opin-
> ions. wouldn't a more general, less subjective, review be of more use to
> a greater number of people, as you might be the only one who can't stand
> that certain band because that's what you and your former girlfriend from
> a couple of years back used to listen to?
I'm not even going to touch this discussion without gloves on, but I have
to say that it is impossible to write an objective review of something
unless you leave out what you actually thought of it. And then there's
really no point in writing the review, because it'll be more of a
presentation of whatever is "reviewed". The result - no one would ever
receive a bad or good review. ;) Seriously though - if reviews weren't
subjective, the papers/magazines could just copy the info from the
release note and print that.
//Erik <chief@lysator.liu.se>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 03:38:26
From: "Jens Agren" <jensa@loranga.df.lth.se>
Subject: Re: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:53:25 +0100, Erik Soderstrom wrote:
>At 02:37 1998-01-25 +0100, per langstrom wrote:
>
>> seriously, isn't objectivism what you should be trying to aim at? i mean,
>> you might be the only person in the world liking/disliking that certain
>> band/record, still a lot of people take your opinions seriously enough to
>> actually check out bands and records based solely on your subjective opin-
>> ions. wouldn't a more general, less subjective, review be of more use to
>> a greater number of people, as you might be the only one who can't stand
>> that certain band because that's what you and your former girlfriend from
>> a couple of years back used to listen to?
>
> I'm not even going to touch this discussion without gloves on, but I have
> to say that it is impossible to write an objective review of something
> unless you leave out what you actually thought of it. And then there's
> really no point in writing the review, because it'll be more of a
> presentation of whatever is "reviewed". The result - no one would ever
> receive a bad or good review. ;) Seriously though - if reviews weren't
> subjective, the papers/magazines could just copy the info from the
> release note and print that.
Good points Chief!
The thing is that the subjective view of a reviewer is one (maybe the only)
fundamental cornerstone wich holds up the whole idea of a review. There is no
such thing as objectivity in arts. There are facts, but no objective likes
and dislikes.
You as a reader has to get your own personal view of a review and its author.
Do you like the music he's writing good reviews about. Good! Go check 'em out
then. If you don't like the bands he usually consider good. Don't bother to
get them.
Plain and simple, but you have to learn it by yourself. It puts you in the
decision making, not the reviewer. He doesn't decide what you should like
and not. He's there to get give you experienced, wellwritten and sometimes
funny view of a record. Even if you don't like what he writes.
It's always been this way and will always be.
//Jens
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:50:26 +0100
From: Erik Soderstrom <chief@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Musikjournalen Pop tomorrow
The best pop show on National Swedish Radio - channel P3 -
"Musikjournalen Pop" tomorrow (26-Jan-98):
Live: Carpe Wade, Loosegoats, Merrymakers
More: Saint Etienne, Shampoo, Vobler
Extra: The Musikjournalen Pop "1997 awards". All awards are
based on the listeners' votes, and if you want to be surprised,
don't read further:
Musikjournalen Pop 1997 Awards:
-- Best foreign pop band: Verve
-- Best Swedish pop band: Kent
-- Best Swedish pop album: Jumper
-- Best Swedish pop personality: Hans Olofsson
-- Best Swedish pop hair: Patrik Bartosch
//Erik <chief@lysator.liu.se>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:30:24 +0000
From: "johanna.hillgren" <johanna.hillgren@swipnet.se>
Subject: Re: I am a journalist, i seek to understand me...
per langstrom wrote:
> ever read a magazine called "pop"? no matter what they say, i can't help
> _but_ getting the impression that they are indeed trying to teach me, as
> the reader, what's right and wrong. not only do i find it dogmatic and
> ignorant, i also find it pretty damn offensive - like i wouldn't be able
> to figure out what i like and don't like on my own. (and, honestly, how
> often do you see journalists state that their opinion is only their very
> own and might not match with anybody else's? journalists assume that
> everybody knows that their reviews and such are totally subjective, still
> the journalists themselves never _ever_ say it! and why is that? well,
> deep inside i think a lot of them want to be the "god of the tastes" and
> be able to set the standards and dictate what's good and what's not, and
> by doing so, reach the highest possible level of "coolness" and be adored
> by the, obviously easily deluded, masses.)
yes, I agree with you on that. some journos must wake up every morning with
an urge to start a new cool movement. and that is bad journalism.
> btw, i totally agree with timo, reviews are a fucking joke and should be
> taken with the biggest grain of salt.
OK, great. don't even read them. don't even care about them. great.
> seriously, isn't objectivism what you should be trying to aim at? i mean,
> you might be the only person in the world liking/disliking that certain
> band/record, still a lot of people take your opinions seriously enough to
> actually check out bands and records based solely on your subjective opin-
> ions. wouldn't a more general, less subjective, review be of more use to
> a greater number of people, as you might be the only one who can't stand
> that certain band because that's what you and your former girlfriend from
> a couple of years back used to listen to?
no, objectivism would totally kill the business (and maybe that is what
everyone wants). who wants to read a boring report on a record like "this
record is 43 minutes of rockmusic with a singer and som guitars. Perhaps
you'll like it". and with objective reviews, new unknown bands would never
get any chance to come through, because sadly enough, most of these bands
careers start of with a good review or nice article in a big paper.
> well then, what exactly is the point in telling people how much you like
> the latest oasis album, when all people have to do to get to hear it them-
> selves is to turn on the damn tv? if it's not one of the videos from the
> album that's on, it's probably some fucking commercial promoting the album!
> at least you are giving lesser known bands a chance to be heard when you
> are telling people how much you like scott 4 or whatever..
I didn't ask for the fucking meaning of it. I just asked if there was any
fucking difference in fucking telling how much you like fucking Oasis or
like pretty fucking unknown bands, and I still don't see any fucking
difference.
Fucking Denial/Daniel
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End of Scandinavian Indie Digest Vol.98 #9
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