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Impulse Reality 143
s$
.d""b. impulse reality press no. 143
[-- $$ $$ $$ -- ------------------------------------------------------ --]
$$ $$ "Total Fucking Buddhist, Man! Part II"
$$ $$ written by linear & mogel
$$ $$ released 9/7/01
[-- $$ $$ ------ ------------------------------------------------------ --]
$$ $$
I recently came across this log file while searching for some worth
while IR submissions I had lost. I had this conversation with mogel (of HOE
Ezine fame) shortly after reading his (brief) explaination of early Buddhism
history and philosophy. If you would like to check the original text out,
visit http://www.hoe.nu/mogel/buddhism.txt
This log is incredibly long, and I am publishing it with out consent
from mogel, because he sucks. It should be noted that this is a very
simplified explaination of ideas, so idiots like me can understand. I'm not
sure when this took place, but I would estimate 6 months ago. This file is
part two in a two part series. Part one is another conversation I had with
mogel about his text, which took place I would guess 3 months before this
one.
-oOo-oOo-oOo-oOo-oOo-oOo-oOo-oOo-
its linear: Oh, i had a question on something in your Buddhist text...
I am Mogel: sure, fire away, spanky
its linear: Okay, so the "Mind-only" school... i don't get the concept...
they're saying that everything only exists in my head... so like, does that
mean I'm making everything up? Are you not existing right now? are you my
imagination? I don't get it!$%
its linear: C'mon hotshot!@$# 5K3WL M3!!!@#$%
I am Mogel: thinking
I am Mogel: it's been a while since i've thought about it
I am Mogel: in a way, yeah
I am Mogel: i mean, that's a very simplistic way to view it, of course--just
like the western philosopher Berkeley
I am Mogel: they said some similar things
I am Mogel: but the -root- of the thinking is this:
I am Mogel: it is impossible for us, as human beings, to bypass our
perspective of the world
I am Mogel: like the idea of a "paradigm", that being a 'filter' for which
we process all information and sensory information, we are constantly
tainting what we absorb (if we even absorb it) in the ways we want
I am Mogel: in a way, this is just someone saying "it's all subjective!!"
I am Mogel: but it's mroe than that, because the Mind Only school suggested
that since we have the knowledge of how profoundly our psyche influences
what we see and understand around us,
I am Mogel: we also have the ability to *control* them profoundly
I am Mogel: and if we study the roots of why and how we are so powerful
influenced, we have a certain kind of power and understanding of human
psychology that is profound
its linear: so it's not saying that everything's our imagination, just
saying that we -perceive- it differently?
I am Mogel: what's the difference?
I am Mogel: while you can rangle off tons of "we as humans try to understand
objective truth" arguments, essentially nothing can be *truly* proven in our
world
I am Mogel: every scientific law, even mathematics, is based on axioms and
assumptions
I am Mogel: the foundation of what we think is "true" is still basically a
well organized lie
its linear: well, uh... in one _stuff_ exist, just in an uncertain state, in
the other, stuff doesn't exist...
I am Mogel: practically speaking, does it matter?
its linear: true, but everything's still not a figment of my imagination!!
I am Mogel: if it exists or not, if it effects us and we effect it to the
same degree, it really doesn't matter
I am Mogel: so, if nothing is -true-, i think it is safe to say that we are
living in a world of probable un-truths
I am Mogel: or, perhaps, everything is potentially true
I am Mogel: why not, after all?
its linear: what's the point of having compassion of everything around me if
it is just a bunch of foolishness my ego made up?@
I am Mogel: that's a great question--there is not
I am Mogel: there is no requirement for compassion in all of Buddihsm
I am Mogel: only certain types, like Tibetan
I am Mogel: most Buddhisms will say that compassion is part of "the middle
way", and therefore a logically good way to behave
I am Mogel: but (A) it's not necessarily good for EVERY situation, (B) the
original spirit of buddism is DIY-ethics, meaning preaching 'compassion' is
dependent on who you you're getting orders from
its linear: Then why should i even care about buddhism? My mind made it up
anyway !!
I am Mogel: good question
I am Mogel: why don't you answer it?
I am Mogel: play the other side
its linear: I shouldn't.
I am Mogel: then don't.
I am Mogel: that seems simple.
I am Mogel: nobody ever said that the mind-only school was correct--they do
not have any modern followers, you know.
I am Mogel: they are only interesting because they were one of the many early
mahayana evolutions of thought--they made amazing contributions to how
eastern thought regards psychology
its linear: Well it's dumb. If they believed what they were teaching, then
they wouldn't have started the school to teach figments of their
imagination!
I am Mogel: i think they were taking some of the buddhist ideas to their
logical extreme
I am Mogel: which is a slightly UN-buddhist thing to do
I am Mogel: anyway, nobody knows -for sure- how much of this 'ego created it
all' business was seriously regarded by them
I am Mogel: it's possible they were just using flowerly language and the
meaning was less literal
I am Mogel: it was quite common for the time and the writings of that time
its linear: Well they need to get their hippy-asses kicked.
I am Mogel: some of the parables of buddha written during that time are
embarassing to read, as a buddhist
I am Mogel: because they're so corny and exaggerated and ultimately
irrelevant
I am Mogel: as you know, buddhism has a far more diverse and intellectually
rich history than christianity
I am Mogel: a scan through the sects and ideas is a lot more dynamic than
"which way do we drop the baby in the water?"
its linear: I got the Lotus Sutra translated by that guy you (or your parents
or whatever) reccomended... it's odd, it refers too much to gods and dragons
and sillyness.
I am Mogel: there are no literal "gods" in buddhism
I am Mogel: and any mahayana student will tell you that
I am Mogel: the term, used in the lotus sutra, is used to describe the
various qualities of the 'mystic law', cause and effect
I am Mogel: to be honest, i haven't read the lotus sutra in like 4-5 years
I am Mogel: because i like the -ideas- more than the text itself
its linear: Well, I know enough not to take it literally, it's just annoying.
I am Mogel: but it's intended to be philosophical and poetic and
interperated, not mystical or supersticious
its linear: And the different buddha "realms" is retarded
I am Mogel: well, keep in mind it was made in a time when people didn't write
things like this down
I am Mogel: so it passed through quite a lot of mouths
I am Mogel: in fact, there's many sutras that were made because of all the
disputes of what the "REAL TRUTH" was
I am Mogel: another reason why the ideas superseed the text
I am Mogel: ahaha, well, consider it something you can tell others, at the
very least
I am Mogel: there's plenty of people in your lifestyle and world who will
never read that book
I am Mogel: so you're ONE UP on 'em
I am Mogel: if you actually finish it, i'll recommend you 2-3 other books
full of interpretations and thoughts on it
I am Mogel: (that are pretty good)
its linear: Allright, I'll start reading it more. You should really rewrite
or at least update that buddhism.txt sometime... I'm sure you know a lot
more and could make it a lot better.
its linear: I should write my own god damn Sutra.
its linear: You never told me how YOU meditate (I don't mean how one
meditates in general, but you're personal way, since you've said before you
have a more active way of meditation)
I am Mogel: my buddhism, Soka Gakkai, is an organization of people focused on
embracing diversity and education for world peace
I am Mogel: so it's more of an 'organization', almost activist, than a
religion
I am Mogel: but the practice of buddism is an active form of meditation
I am Mogel: the difference of active and passive is that you're more
immediately focused
its linear: are you talking about mindfullness and crap?
I am Mogel: it's a lot better for people who have busy lives and can't spend
hours and hours every day staring at a wall or other nonsense that belongs
with monks
I am Mogel: 'mindfulness' is just a concept
I am Mogel: being Mindful is simply being aware of how you are balanced with
the ideas of buddhism in your own life
I am Mogel: so that's part of it, sure, but that's part of everything (or
should be!!)
I am Mogel: Anyway:
I am Mogel: I sit somewhere, I have my back straight, act attentive, and I
chant the words "Nam Myo-ho Ren-ge Kyo". while that sounds silly, i guess,
it acts as a wonderful mantra (presuming you know what the words mean)...and
after doing this for about 5 minutes every day, it takes very little time
before you see genuine changes in your life
I am Mogel: or at least your attitude
I am Mogel: anyway: chanting in this way, actively thinking about your life,
is a discipline
I am Mogel: essentially it's just the symbolic act of Actually Trying To Do
Something, which a lot of people never do
its linear: so what's the chant mean, and how do you say it? like,
phonetically spell it out for me, because i'm dumb
I am Mogel: it literally means "i devote myself through these words to the
mystic law of cause effect'
I am Mogel: but each character (there's 5 ancient sanskrit characters that
make the expression) has a very long explaination
its linear: i see
I am Mogel: anyhow: PHONETICALLY, it's "Nam - MyoHo - Ren Gyay - Kyo"
I am Mogel: which is still hard to say, i guess
I am Mogel: i'll say it on the phone sometime for you
its linear: Right on. If another conference ever starts soon. Maybe i should
call your ass and bug you at home again sometime.
I am Mogel: it sounds kind of silly in words, but i say with 100% seriousness
that chanting this every day, while being focused, has changed my life for
the better in numerous ways
I am Mogel: it's a better way to spend 5 minutes than a whole lot of other
things, that's for sure
I am Mogel: again, even a sketpical person must admit that the simple act of
paying attention and 'meditation' on one's own life is rarely bad
I am Mogel: err skeptical
its linear: do you say it the whole time you meditate or just at the begining
yo control your mind until you get into samadhi or whatever the fuck deep
meditation is called
I am Mogel: ahahah, i say it over and over again
I am Mogel: because
I am Mogel: what happens is
I am Mogel: you eventually drift off, even while you say it
I am Mogel: and you start to think about stuff uncontrollably, once you're in
the habit
its linear: and you only do it for 5mins anyway
I am Mogel: and you're not completely aware that you're even saying the
words, as you say them
I am Mogel: it's kinda wacky
its linear: I think that's just because you're a JUNKY!
I am Mogel: well, 5 minutes is the recommended starting time for people,
becaquse it's hard for people to start daily habits
I am Mogel: i know some wackos who will chant for like an hour a day, but
that's hard to do if you have a life
its linear: haha
its linear: I think i'm going to start a buddhist indie-rock band and call it
Zendie... it'll counteract all that christian-punk/rock/crap music out
there!!
its linear: is there any soka gokkai places around where i am... or rather,
how could i find out if there are any around here?
I am Mogel: i could find out for you tomorrow
I am Mogel: (making note to self)
I am Mogel: what's your town again?
its linear: cool, thanks.... Upland California... some near-by places are
Claremont, Ontario, Montclair.... It's in the Inland Empire (San Bernadino
County)
I am Mogel: http://www.sgi.org has lots of information and general crap
I am Mogel: so you can read about it there
I am Mogel: it's an extremely friendly group of people, though, and they are
not particularly "WE WILL CONVERT YOU!!!" in spirit
I am Mogel: so there's not much to worry about
its linear: they don't have a bunch of wacky (anal) buddhist ethics or
anything at these places, do they? like, i'm not going to have to walk
counter-clockwise around the room while people stare at me weird and feed
me freaky punch?
I am Mogel: ahahah, no, nothing like that
I am Mogel: with a tiny number of japanese throwbacks (that are being
dismantled every year), it's mostly a very culturally diverse group--people
from many ages, races, etc
I am Mogel: ahaha, these are very american people
I am Mogel: they'll probably feel like -you're- staring at them weird, rather
than them at you
its linear: I should bring a bible and tell them that they all need God!
its linear: Anyway, I'll let you go now since you wanted to go earlier....
Sorry... Have fun at work tomorrow!@!!@
-oOo-oOo-oOo-oOo-oOo-oOo-oOo-oOo-
Hope, you uh, learned something.
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