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NuKE Issue 06-013
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Volume 1, Issue 6, May 1993
NuKE Info-Journal #6
NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE
uK E-
KE "Lies, Scandals, and Roomers of the Anti- -N
E- Virus Community" Nu
-N uK
Nu By KE
uK Alan Soloman, ARiSToTLe, Rock Steady E-
KE -N
E-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-NuKE-Nu
The following are the _exact_ conversation/interview between Aristotle,
Rock Steady, and Alan Soloman, concerning the virus problem of today. The
conversation was recorded by Rock Steady, the NSA (naturally), and Unitel whom
alerted the RCMP because this was a 5 hour conference billed onto NuKE's own
PBX, whom Unitel thought was suspicious so they killed our PBX! (Gezz talk about
trust!) Nothing here has been recreated, this conversation was recorded on
tape, rather in bad quality though, but nevertheless it will stand against any
accusation of fabrication, which it is not!
PS: Don't forget to read the conclusion at the end of the coversation, if you
must read one thing, may it be the conclusion.
% In the Beginning... there was light, then Rock, and of course Aristotle %
NOTE: RS=Rock Steady ; AR=Aristotle ; SO=Alan Soloman ; ??= Mrs ?
??> Hello, may I help you?
AR> Alan Soloman Please.
??> Who's calling?
AR> John
<Pause>
SO> Hello?
AR> Hi, how you doing? If your not busy, ah.. you know Rock Steady is here on
the phone with me.
SO> Yeah
AR> And I wanted to ask you a couple of things if I could.
SO> Yeah
AR> That article came out in VNI. [Virus News International; its a magazine]
SO> Which one
AR> The one that came out in the May issue.
SO> Yeah
AR> Who's the author of that?
SO> Which article are you talking about?
AR> The one that says `Back in Business'
SO> ah, I don't know which is the article you are referring to.
AR> ah, John <Censored>, also known publicly as-
SO> The trouble is ah, its been a few weeks since I read it. Does it have an
author to it?
AR> No.
SO> Then its written by the editor.
AR> Its written by Paul, okay I've talked to Paul about it. Okay I've twice seen
in there whereby you have written articles and tossed me into it.
SO> Toss you into what?
AR> ah a couple of articles where you mention my name.
SO> Did I say anything that wasn't true?
AR> ah, that's not what I'm getting at. That's not what I'm calling about.
What I'm calling about, is this particular article where they mention the
school and everything.
SO> Yeah
AR> I spoke to Paul the other day, and he sent me a copy in the mail.
SO> Yeah
AR> So I was wondering, is there going to be a retraction on it?
SO> Is it not true then?
AR> Na-
RS> What right gives you-
SO> But you told me you were a student at-
AR> No, no, no, about being Back in Business. It stated three times that I
publicly stated that I was closing my system.
SO> Well I'm confused-
RS> That's a start
SO> ah, I got a fax, no its an email, I forget now, this was a few months ago.
Were you were offering viruses for sale. Is that not the case?
AR> Na, that's not the case.
SO> Something you posted on Fidonet.
AR> I didn't know that I posted it!
SO> Its good forgery, if its not you that did this.
AR> Well, my points is-
SO> Want me to call you back, this is costing you a fortune.
AR> That's okay I can handle it. [Yeah sure RS is paying this 3-way]
RS> <grins>
AR> Reason I had Rock Steady call was, we were talking 'bout this as well. ah-
SO> When I talk about your position, the position is that your positioned in
William & Mary's college, or you graduated?
AR> I graduated!
SO> So your no longer with the college.
AR> I graduated from the college, ah after this issue came out. But the point
of it is this, it states in here real clearly that I'm Back in Business!
And that I have forgotten my pledge, kay! I think I went back into business
when I change to VR, there's nobody on my board!
SO> So your not offering viruses any more?
AR> I haven't since that day I told you. See I have ten people, believe or not,
their all AV.
SO> Who are there.
AR> <CENSORED> has some boys that like to call me from time to time.
SO> What do you mean `his boys'
AR> Some people he's got working for him. They call me up.
SO> The trouble is, I don't know what you mean by the AV.
AR> Well AntiVirus researchers, people that do beta testing for AntiVirus
software.
SO> The trouble is, anyone can call and say their AV.
AR> Well okay, anybody can call themselves a virus writer. I', pr-
SO> Ththth-that's why I'm asking you-
AR> I'm really pissed off about this, okay. The way they mention my name in
there, okay, they basically came out and said I was fire! This guy on the
phone right now, knows for a fact that I've been doing research for this
crap for a year now. And a-
SO> Sorry, this guy you say, you mean Joe? [Joe Greco aka Rock Steady]
AR> Yeah, okay... Joe?
RS> Yeah
AR> okay, anyway this stuff has been going on you know, and its been nothing
but research. I told Paul Robison to call the school! And formally request
that article and he can have it.
SO> What's the phone number.
AR> ah, okay, ah area code 804-221-4000 is the main number.
SO> And who is the article with.
AR> ah, Kenny Chang
SO> So who's posting all the messages saying your selling viruses?
AR> I don't know.
SO> Because they seem to be coming-
AR> Well I'll tell yeah
RS> Do you have those posts we'd like to see them.
SO> I could faxed them to you. Gimme a fax number
AR> I don't have a fax number
RS> Well I'm unwilling to give you my fax number.
SO> Well I received them as a fax.
AR> Well that's my point, the school is rather pissed off about this as well.
SO> Allow me to fax them too?
AR> well I dunno, if somebody's posting out there, I can take and change my
system right now. I can phreak one of these password files from any front-
door, and when I get in, I can get anybody's session password, and change my
damn fido feed to anybody in the world.
RS> Are to willing to receive a copy from the mail Aristotle, yes or no?
AR> Sure I'll take a copy by the mail.
RS> or I can make him send it the NuKE PO Box.
AR> Sure, that's fine.
RS> Okay Alan, I call you back in a week to give you our PO Box to receive
that fax.
SO> I could do that
AR> Yeah, I'd like to have that. Now here's what it is...okay...I've been
looking at this stuff upside down, and one-the-other, and there's a whole
lot of thinks I was unhappy about. Alan I'm really pissed about this one.
SO> What are you pissed about?
AR> What am I pissed about! Damn Alan, you know. For a year know everyone knows
that I'm here straighten this crap out. Between Sara Gordan's posting out
there about VX-Net being an underground exchange network, and all this kind
of horse-shit and everything. And this article coming out here, saying I'm
a student in this school, now why did you have to put that in there?
SO> Well because, what you say, was that you were doing this project.
AR> But nobody mentioned that!
SO> You said that!
AR> But in the article it doesn't say anything about this damn research thing!
The only thing that is said is that I'm a student at William and Mary's,
It doesn't mention the fact that I'm doing research for the school!
RS> Of course it all ends up that they pick out what they want, and paint a
different picture of you!
AR> I've always been pretty straight with you. You know Sara Gordon walks
around saying, "I'll never log on to a bulletin board, never, never, never!"
[Meaning a `Virus' exchange bulletin board]
SO> Its been a few weeks since I read that article, can I call you back while I
go get a copy of this article. Wait, I'll see if I can get it...
<short pause>
SO> Sorry, I can't seem to find a copy in the house. See you called me at home,
rather than the office. What did the article say?
AR> It said, "John <Censored>, also known publicly under the name Aristotle,
sysop of The Black Axes BBS. One of several names used my Mr. John,
recently announced, the self-imposed shut down of his bulletin board
system. For a while it looked like there would be no more viruses for
sale, or given away free, depending on who you were! ..... John's a
student at William and Mary's college, has apparently forgotten his
pledge and is back in business!
AR> Now then, there's a hole lot of people here running around, saying all sorts
of things. Lemme ask you something, a lady under the name Katy, no, Cary
something.
SO> Cary, Cary Lang?
AR> Yes, she says she works for you! ok?
SO> Not quite true.
AR> Well she also states she was on my board, and she from Finland!
SO> Well, Cary Lang is finish, doesn't work for me, works for a company, called
"Land Vision"
AR> Same place with that guy `Dire', Kaluco Janhontalo or something like this.
Now this lady (Cary), was posting in the echoes, in response to some letter
saying `John's boards down you know...' She comes out and says, "NO, its up,
plenty of viruses, I was on there today." She used in her tag line, "Works
for Dr. Alan Soloman"
SO> Let me give you the accurate information on Cary, Cary isn't a lady, Cary is
a man.
AR> Pardon me.
SO> Secondly, he works for a company called Land Vision, and sell our AntiVirus
toolkit.
AR> Well that lady-
SO> He's not a lady.
AR> Well okay, that person-
SO> MAN
AR> okay, that man was never on my board, the only fidish person on my board,
is that guy named Janhontalo, okay.
SO> Doesn't ring a bell.
AR> Well, I'm kinda disturbed but it, cuz I believe when the school kicks back
up, and they read this, huh.... The only person that knows about this right
now is the dean.
SO> Well I think, that if certain of my views were not true, then certainly we
would do a retraction.
AR> The chancellor of the college will be, very shortly, Margaret Thacher.
SO> Really?
AR> Oh Yes! She'll be the chancellor of the 1st of July, 1993.
SO> So what is the true situation? So what you said was, that you took the
Black Axes down?
AR> No! What I said was the virus exchange, the virus stuff, is down!
SO> So the Black axes is still running?
AR> Yes.
SO> Do you have any viruses on it?
AR> For download, NO. There are 10 people that have access to that, on my board.
SO> So there are no viruses for download?
AR> Only 10 people have access to that, on my board!
SO> Who are they?
AR> ah, sure if you wanna do that, sure! You want me to name who's on there?
SO> Yeah.
AR> Some of these people are going to be mighty upset! These are AntiVirus
software people. Joe knows these people call, I know when he writes
something he doesn't go off to these people and tell them...
AR> You know many don't trust my judgment, on whom I give theses viruses to, is
what this all comes down to. How come then so many of my viruses have the
S & S International logo in them?
SO> Frankly, I'd like to know that too. [S&S International is Solomans Company.]
AR> Well I already got the connection made! Well we've talked about David Chess,
and he is suspected with trading with McAfee.
SO> Suspect is the wrong word, I think he does!
AR> Alright then, also we have a fellow by the name of Joseph Whales. Joe Whales
is good buddies with guys in the NCSA, I got the whole NCSA collection!
I got everything David Stang has put his hands on!
SO> Most of it is junk, you know that! [NCSA Virus Collection]
AR> Well there is more in there than just junk.
SO> That's true, I'm not saying its all junk. I keep seeing these files
beginning with exclamation marks, going round, and round, and round.
AR> I got the entire collection, I got 8 megs of junk!
SO> That's nothing I got 110 megs of junk. [Glad to see your proud of it!]
AR> Now then, this guy on the phone with me right now (Joe) doesn't write
viruses to put on peoples systems and NuKE the whole world! That's _not_
what we both do. I'm just interested in where they go, and what disturbs
me is all the people running around out there, claiming this `Big Threat'
You even stated in your articles that many in my collection were viruses,
but there was an afoul lot of junk.
SO> Yes, that right.
AR> True, no problem with that. But that's the representative of what's going
around the country! See, this is what is represented on what's out there.
And its not that big a threat!
SO> Its not that big of threat, for what?
AR> ARCV is being busted and charge for some viruses they didn't write Alan!
SO> Which viruses?
RS> All of them!
AR> Well they didn't write the McWhale, or the KoolMac...
SO> Why do you say they're being busted for those viruses?
AR> Because it listed in an article, by someone up there in Scotland Yard,
saying if anybody got infected by any of these viruses, to contact them!
SO> I don't know where Scotland Yard got the idea they wrote McWhale, I could
have told them that!
AR> All of them are MPC viruses, nothing more.
SO> Well wait a minute, it depends on whom you believe is a member of ARCV!
AR> Do they think I'm a member of ARCV?
SO> Well Apache Warrior has been telling them that you are!
AR> Hah, I'm in the United States, and your telling me I'm a member of ARCV!
RS> ARCV is SOLELY England
SO> Well that's what he has been telling them! Ask Apache Warrior.
AR> Well I didn't know this.
SO> Yes you did!
AR> That I've been a member of ARCV?
SO> You knew his been saying that!
RS> Since when, do you want to clarify this.
SO> Since when what?
RS> You say John knows, what makes you so sure?
SO> Because the last time I spoke to John 2-3 months ago..
AR> I know we talked about him, and I know he narced all his friends! But I
don't think you told me, that he said I was a member of ARCV!
RS> Alan do you have a copy of the ARCV news-journal? Their first news journal
and only news journal, all members are listed inside there, and Aristotle
is not listed inside there.
SO> Do you have a copy of the second journal?
RS> The second journal was never released.
SO> ah, John's got a copy.
AR> Of the Second Journal?
RS> The second journal does not exist.
SO> John's got a copy.
AR> Tell me which one its in now, and I'll look it up! Is it in the collection
I sent you?
SO> Yeah.
AR> Does it have me listed in that?
SO> No, it doesn't.
AR> This why I keep hearing feedback, of people wanting to extradite me to
england.
SO> Possibly, I can well imagine.
AR> Based on what a 19 year old phreaker has said. And also now, with my name
going around being `Back in Business'...
SO> Well I don't know what he's basing that claim with, if he's got any files,
or anything. I don't know. What I do know is that six months ago, he was
facing fairly big trouble.
AR> And because he's been talking... well you know...
SO> He was facing big trouble, because he got caught stealing large amounts
of telephone time from his next door neighbour. In an extraordinary stupid
manner, by the way.
AR> Yeah I know, he just went backdoor and plug a phone line into it...
SO> There's no way he could of gotten away with that.
AR> Humm, interesting. So how can I get Scotland Yard to call me?
SO> You can call them, I'll give you the phone number.
AR> Naa, wouldn't do any good. So like once this trail starts, they may bring
me over?
SO> I don't know, you can send them a letter. The person in charge of the case
in Scotland Yard is, Inspector John Hoston.
AR> humm okay.
SO> I can understand why your pissed off. But Joe, what's your development in
this? Why you part of the phone call?
RS> Why not?
SO> There's no reason why not.
AR> I'll tell you why, cuz I asked him, as I'm putting an article in NuKE Info
six. It basically explains my side, on how everything transpires.
SO> Did Nowhere Man really write the NuKE Encryption Device, by himself!
RS> Yes he did, why?
SO> Well because I saw it.
RS> Well that was just a Beta Release v.90.
SO> No, I've seen the final!
RS> uh? What version do you have?
SO> oh sorry, we're not suppose to?
RS> version .90.
SO> No its version 1.00
RS> That does not exist!
SO> I've got a thing that calls itself the N.E.D. v1.00, it mind be of course.
RS> I'll tell you right now, it version .90
SO> Is there some bytes I can read out to help to identify it?
RS> Not really, because version 1.00 changed dramatically.
<anyhow after a bit of blahing, this so called NED v1.00 is really v.90 that
was renamed and inserted into a new virus, generating from europe.>
In most part this was the main concern of the conversation, we wanted to bring
out. Surely, this is only 1/5 of the total conference, as a matter of fact this
was the first hour of the conference, and by tone of voice, it was fairly
hostile. But, we are not one to racially judge a person because of his ethnic
surroundings, or occupation in life, so it would only be fair to say that Alan
Soloman was fairly a reasonable man to talk to.
Interesting enough Alan did remove his safeguard, so who said Soloman's package
was unbeatable? The rest of the conversation, did focus on ideas, ideologies,
morals and some of the unexpected problems due to this structured AntiVirus
bludgeon.
Problems you say? Who would have expected such a problem? The community
responsible to `Clean-Up' the virus problem has done a good job in that, but
who would have expected them to leave behind a muddy trail of destruction where
they go? It all begins with the first Anti-Virus package, determined to detect
and wipe-out any known virus out there. Note the word `KNOWN'. So basically,
you would have to collect, if you may say so, and perhaps have people collecting
for you, viruses so that you may add them to your Anti-Virus package to gain the
cutting edge over your competitors. Now then, the remaining successful virus
packages have somewhat localized, in a geographic state. McAfee Scan has
dominated North America, Vet7 has dominated the Australia and Asian region. You
can conclude that Frisk has gained a fair amount of support in Europe, as well
as Solomans package.
Now then, this is only because of geographic location. If someone in California
notices a new virus, the first person he'll call and give this virus to is,
naturally, McAfee. The same goes for Soloman and people crying in England (UK).
Now, to gain that cutting edge, wouldn't you need all of those viruses across
the world, so you may even begin to gain world-wide market share support?
Naturally, so what do you do? You can form alliances with other Anti-Virus
programmers, but that isn't enough, and perhaps unfair! Unfair is a sense, that
an alliance with Soloman and McAfee would be to Soloman's advantage, surely
McAfee covers a wider population and receives new viruses at a must faster pace
compared to the England counter part. So we're stuck between a rock and a hard
place, again.
Hey, <light bulb blazing above yeah!>, why not form an association with
members pertaining to all these continents, and bring upon our collection
together to form an Even Bigger collection? Sure! Great idea! Lets call it
NCSA! Yeah! Then another newfy pops up and screams, CARO! Yeah, another group.
But what happens now? To our amazement, we have gentlemen, roaming the under-
ground technodrome, mission: collect new viruses. Having no statute they will
resort to anything in order to gain new viruses. Somehow, our "hero's" that
claim to save us from the virus problem, are low-down, bottom of the food chain
infantile, resorting to unmoral methods to gain viruses. huh? Explain?
humm, I will use myself as an easy example. I, Rock Steady, along with Pure
Energy manage a bulletin board known as Cybernetic Violence. The main head
quarters of NuKE, we're looked upon as `evil-doers', misdirected youths, bullies
that now know how to type, scum, satan's helpers <my personal favourite> I
believe you get the picture? And yes, it isn't a pretty one for sure, you may
call this harassment, as a matter of fact it _is_ harassment. Now then, where
can you get the latest virus put out by the intellectual challenged mind?
Of course, the mischievous virus groups. Oh no, this guy won't give me virus
access unless I show him I'm `deserving' of it. Okay I got it, let me upload
you my whole NCSA, virus collection...
Get the picture? Yes, we all heard it before, I'm a deranged lair. The Anti-
Virus community is _not_ maniacal to associate themselves with us. We all
heard of Sara Gordon screaming out, `I never called an underground exchange
board', she will never admit it. Nevertheless Sara Gordan holds the phone
number of Cybernetic Violence, Black Axes, The Hell Pit, etc, etc. Sara doesn't
associate herself with low-lives like ourselves, as she explains. Nevertheless,
she has CLAIMED to have called up The Hell Pit BBS, and uploaded 3 fake viruses
and exclaims how easy it was to obtain virus access there. Now there's a
contradiction. Now who are you going to believe? Rock Steady, with a record for
hacking, and suspected of other cyber-crimes, or Sara Gordan with not even a
bug-stain on her record? Wait, let me tell you some more. Sara Gordan is not
totally `white', since Sara doesn't associate herself with `us', I guess the
conversation we had concerning her wanting to invite a person called `Nowhere
Man' to dinner was a figment of my imagination. Also, the crap she said to me,
about getting her in contact with virus writers in Australia, was a figment
of my vivid imagination. Come on Sara, I heard it and you said it. Of course,
this is simply my word against yours. Son of a gun Sara, didn't you hear all
them `clicking' noises during our conversation? There was someone else on the
line Sara! Someone, that kept on receiving calls, and therefore he/she had to
switch and answer the call, via MaBells `Calling Waiting' service.
See I guess this isn't after all, just a figment of my imagination. Since I
conference the call, my phone bill supports the fact that TWO calls were made
at the same time from my number! One was to the alledged person in the
background while the other was yours! (Sara)
Oh yes, I'm a bored teenager derange liar wanting to bust balls. Frankly, no one
admitted in NuKE is a teenager. Frankly I'm currently in a respectable banking
position, nevertheless I still am pursuing my Masters in Mathematics, and may
this even lead to a Ph.D., of course by then I'm expected to sprout out of my
satanic puberty stage and into adulthood. Even though I'm way passed the legal
adult age, may you still say its a hormone thing. Frankly, when just is not done
and lies are tossed over to the public, discrediting our history, with your
influence of power. <Yes, corruption of power> Until that day of just, until
that day of truth comes out, then that will be the day you will get rid of me.
You see this isn't about me, this is about the you. <The AntiVirus community>
This isn't something you `mature out of', when do you mature out of injustice?
In what point of life is injustice okay?
The Virus problem has been solved, now what about the Anti-Virus Problem?
Rock Steady
NuKE: The Anti-Anti-Virus Group!
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