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TraxWeekly Issue 044
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founded march 12, 1995 _| : _____ t r a x w e e k l y # 44
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- | TraxWeekly Issue #44 | Release date: 01-26-96 | Subscribers: 495 | -
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Forgive me for TraxWeekly being a day late this week. I've had a huge
backlog of articles in my mailbox to sort through, and I lost some of it
due to my space quota. =( If you sent me an article or a message some
time this past week, it may have been ignored. In any case, I managed to
piece together as much as possible, and here is yet another large issue!
Atlantic and Deus Ex are still pumping out the reviews. This is their
ninth continuous week of music reviewing, and it doesn't look like it's
going to stop anytime soon. Spyder's "To The Sky" was given an in depth
review by me.
There's a plethora of discussion about Light/KFMF's "ratings" article
in last weeks issue. This week, we present you a truckload of opinions
and debate on the validity and usefulness of music ratings. Also, Faces
in the Crowd features an interview with Acidfrog of LoK, by Zinc.
Beginning next week, ShawnM of NOISE will be presenting us with a series
of documentaries on composing, music systems, and other related subjects.
TraxWeekly has not always carried serious articles about non-tracker
material that affects us, and I believe it's about time we did.
Mercator of iLLiCiT needs music for the INSIDE diskmag! Check the
advertisement section at the end of this issue.
Lates!
-psib [traxweekly]
gwie@owl.csusm.edu
/-[Contents]----------------------------------------------------------------
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General Articles
1. New Music Reviews................................Atlantic and DeusEx
2. Music Review: "To The Sky".......................Psibelius
3. Impulse Tracker Trivia...........................Random
4. Oz96 Demoparty Results...........................Random
5. No Justice in Ratings............................C. Ray C.
6. Ratings Have a Purpose...........................The Finn
7. How Ratings Work.................................Atlantic
8. HORNET Ratings...................................Trixter
9. Ratings and Opinions.............................Psibelius
Faces in the Crowd
10. Interview with Acidfrog.........................Zinc
Group Columns
11. Epinicion Productions
12. Explizit
Advertisements
iLLiCiT diskmag INSIDE needs Music!
Closing
Distribution
Subscription/Contribution Information
TraxWeekly Staff Sheet
/-[General Articles]--------------------------------------------------------
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--[1. New Music Reviews]--------------------------------[Atl, Deus, Jtown]--
{ Introduction }
Submissions slowed down a little this week, but we still had a few songs
sent by email. Deus Ex didn't have time to get his reviews done, so I'm
on my own this week.
This week marks the reappearance of Kal Zakath, aka Jtown (on irc), the
founder of Faces in the Crowd. He expressed interest in helping Deus Ex
and I out with the reviews, so he's our new reviewer. Now appearing in
this column: staff listing. =) Thanks for your help jtown.
I have a comment to make about the nature of these reviews. It would
seem that some people see this article as a means by which to gain more
popularity. Perhaps this does happen to a small degree. I would like
all the readers to be aware, however, of the fact that these reviews
are not here for that reason. When I review someone's music and just get
an "oh well, thanks anyway" after the review, I am concerned about their
motives for having a review done. I honestly feel awful when someone
takes my commenting as a personal attack.
Instead, the Traxweekly review section is meant to provide some critical
musical feedback for those interested in how other people see their music.
It is not a vehicle for egoboosting, so don't expect it to be. The
nature of constructive criticism is exactly what the phrase suggests -
constructive. It aids you in building on your level of ability. If
that doesn't interest you, please don't send us your music.
Meanwhile, if you know of a musician who deserves to be heard, pick
a song by that musician. If they aren't into composing anymore
that's alright, although we -strongly- prefer musicians who are active.
Attach the song to one of the reviewers in email in MIME format (not
UUencode), or send it to one of us on #trax on Anothernet. Our addresses
are listed at the end of the article. Please include the following
info:
- Artist's Alias and Affiliations
- Date of Release (If not known, approximate)
- Where it can be found (ftp site & directory, website, person on #trax)
- Artist's E-mail Address (Very important!)
NOTE: From now on, the characters "SC?" might appear after the originality
mark. This means that the tracker has failed to comment in the
infopage about the originality of the samples. This will be an
automatic -5% on the originality mark. Yes, I know that's silly,
but people deserve credit for their recordings.
- Atlantic
{ Reviews for Week of January 18th - January 25th }
Artist......... Spyder
Song Title..... "To the Sky!" [tothesky.xm]
DOR............ January 13th, 1996. Email Addy: kdostale@indiana.edu
Found: ftp.cdrom.com (/pub/demos/incoming/music/songs/xm/spyd_tts.zip)
Composition: 70% Sound Quality: 75% Originality: 80% SC?
Reviewed By: Atlantic.
Comments:
"To the sky" is a tune by Spyder in which he musically depicts fighter
pilots going off to a battle, which ends in victory. In this effort,
I felt the song to be really successful. The song is fast, loud, and
active, just like what he is portraying. It has that orchestral feel
that's similar to Jase's mc3 winning song, Kingdom Skies. The chording
is very nice, especially near the end in the "victory" sequence.
Technically, there wasn't much I could find wrong. My biggest concern
would be the mixing. Most of the notehits in this song are happening at
full volume, and I felt that some things stood out too much. For example,
the crashing, or the rattlesnakeish percussion sample. Some more volume
control would've helped quite a lot. At some points there were runs that
were in the foreground amplitude-wise, but sounded like they should have
just been in the background highlighting the movement of the key (Ie,
the orchestra hit). I liked the piano theme, but didn't like the sample
that was being used. To me, it doesn't sound realistic - I've had a
personal vendetta against that very sample for a long time. =) In
addition to that, I felt that sustaining the piano theme in some parts
would've added to the sound quality. As it is, the notes in the main
theme are constantly cutting each other off, and it doesn't sound very
thick. There's certainly enough room for it with 18 channels. =)
Overall, a successful effort, I have a lot of respect for people who
put forward original pieces like this one.
Artist......... Caliban / SMASH!
Song Title..... "Invaders" [invade.s3m]
DOR............ January 13th, 1996. Email Addy: not listed.
Found: ftp.cdrom.com (/pub/demos/music/songs/1995/s3m/s/sm-invde.zip)
Composition: 75% Sound Quality: 70% Originality: 65% SC?
Reviewed By: Atlantic.
Comments:
Wow, I should be able to say some things about this one, it has looped
about a dozen time in the background while I did other stuff. =) Sounds
pretty good on my system. This tune was graciously sent to me by
Squigalator II who is now in the group Heretics. This track from Caliban
is done in a trancey/dancey sort of style. People will generally find
that I'm hard to please when it comes to this type of music, because I
find it to be pretty formulaic. The problems I had with "Invaders" are
mostly dealing with the intro. The blippy rezo sample that is played
throughout the intro part has a strange pitchbend to it which doesn't
fit well into the key. Actually, there are a few sample choices that I
didn't like. The snare doesn't sound like it belongs in the song - it's
too reverby and rock-like. As well, a few sams have a bunch of static on
them. Some sound like they were sampled at 22050 Hz, on an 8bit card or
something. If not, they sound that way. =) Enough about the sound quality
though. With regards to composition again, the only other thing I felt
could have used more work were the build ups, or rather, the resolutions
after them. There is an excellent build up in this tune, where things
just keep getting more fast and frantic. After it came though (I'm trying
my best to avoid sexual connotations here, I'm failing miserably), much
the same theme continued. I think it would work better if the song took
a totally unexpected turn towards something different at that point for
a while. Loved the mixing in this tune, everything melted together
perfectly. A generally pretty kewl tune.
Artist......... Dude / Rat
Song Title..... "The end of tomorrow" [end_of.s3m]
DOR............ January 22nd, 1996. Email Addy: not listed.
Found: ftp.cdrom.com (/pub/demos/incoming/music/songs/s3m/rat_eot.zip)
Composition: 75% Sound Quality: 75% Originality: 80% SC?
Reviewed By: Atlantic.
Comments:
Thanks out to Catspaw for another submission from that funky west-coast
collective, Rat. They are prolly going to be sick of hearing this from
me, but I'll say it again: repetition is about your only concern. =)
I like this tune actually, Dude has a unique and interesting style which
could be described as epic/demo/synth-ish. I like the basically free-
style form as it allowed you to do some sololike stuff with the synth,
but it just kept on for that same progression for all kinds of orders.
Some key changes would help I think. I liked idea of chording the bass,
gives the song a really strange housey feel that adds a lot to its
"individuality" I suppose you could say. The crazy effect stuff at the
end went almost smoothly, except for one portamento up that isn't going
fast enough. The percussion track is pretty straightforward, although
the fills were pretty kewl. Adding the odd note to the main thrust of
the drum line would make it a little more interesting. Good sample
choices too, sounds pretty good on my system. Note: If you get this song,
play it with cubic - all the other players seem to screw it up. Good
job done here, and I look forward to other tunes from Rat.
{ Traxweekly Reviewing Team }
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Alias Real Name Email Position
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
Atlantic Barry Freeman as566@torfree.net Editor / Reviewing
Deus Ex John Taite deusex@io.org Reviewing
Kal Zakath John Townsend jtown@sescva.esc.edu Reviewing
ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú_ú
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--[2. Music Review: "To The Sky"]------------------------------[Psibelius]--
[note: this review is an addition to the regular set of reviews by Atlantic
Deus Ex and Jtown. -ed]
Filename: spyd_tts.zip
Module Name: tothesky.xm
Module Type: XM
Composer: Spyder - kdostale@indiana.edu
Date: 1/13/96
Style: orchestral/soundtrack
Apx Lenth: 4 minutes
Apx Size: 500K
Location: ftp.cdrom.com/demos/incoming/music/songs/xm/spyd_tts.zip
Player: FastTracker2, Cubic Player v1.6+
This article is a review of an XM composition titled "To The Sky" by
Spyder. Spyder mentions in his module text that the piece is supposed to
evoke images of fighter planes, a kind of "Top Gun" and naval fighter
kind of feel. Before we begin, I'd like to say this piece is inspired
and modeled after a concert band piece by David Holsinger (I can't really
remember the name, something skies, something glory), which Spyder also
mentions in his text.
The opening of this composition is quite standard. A single lead
instrument starts, along with some percussive effects which are nicely
blended. The bell/string synth lead is excellent. I'm glad to see that
not everyone is layering everything in 13 note chords to open their songs.
Such massive layering clouds the melody in an overkill of harmony parts.
The opening is simple, effective, and emotive. The dulcimer (bell) is a
nice touch. Good transition chords, but the sample looping gives it a
slight "bobble" that takes away from the integrity of the sound.
The brass instrument sample could be a bit better in terms of quality,
but the timbre is perfect for the kind of feeling this song is supposed
to bring about. The dark teutonic sound of the European orchestra brass
(find performances of Mahler or Brahms by the Vienna Symphony for good
examples) does a better job than the brighter, tinnier sound of its U.S.
marching band counterpart. I find that brass samples from keyboards and
midi patch kits are terrible. Best solution is to record a good player
live, and if that isn't available, find the best low brass sample you can
and pump it through an effects processor and save it so you can use it in
your mod. Two things for orchestral brass samps: the tone must be dark
and there's gotta be some reverb! Also, I notice you sometimes use four
channels for the brass sample alone. In this situation, I would echo one
of the channels at full volume one line below the other three. That will
help the sound, especially with the current un-reverbed sample.
At the onset of the "action" in the piece, I think that the bass line,
currently played using a low octave piano, would be better played by a
synth bass. The "action" segment needs a hard, steady, bass line to
complement the brass fanfares and fighter sound effects mimicked by the
percussion. It's just my opinion, but because the low octave piano
doesn't echo too well, you need some other kind of bass. Some of the sound
effects from the percussion are a tad strained. If you really want the
sound of aerial combat, then you need some new samples. If your aim is to
mimick the style of Holsinger's composition, be a bit more conservative in
the use of the snare and other percussion. Remember, simpler is better,
and simply more elegant. Watch out for some of the dissonant chords in
this section. Some fit nicely, but others are just painful (alarm klaxons
aren't THAT harsh! =). Add some deeper percussion (like louder bass drum
or timpani) to balance all the higher pitched stuff, especially at the
resolution of the "fight or flight" sequence.
The closing of the piece is good, but do something with those bells!
You're just whacking them on beats 1,2,3 and 4 on the same pitch, and it
detracts from the balance of the rest of the instruments. Give it some
rhythm, lower the volume, and change pitch to flow with the rest of the
leads. I love the ending, but stagger your drums so they echo a bit and
sound more realistic. A bit of loud timpani or a gong at the end would
finish your song quite dramatically...
Here are my ratings for your song:
Tracking: 7.9 out of 10.0 - Nice job, do try some echoing/layering.
Samples: 7.3 out of 10.0 - Percussion good, brass/strings need work.
Melodies: 8.1 out of 10.0 - Brass melodies are nice.
Harmonies: 7.5 out of 10.0 - You could use a bit more; great ending.
Transitions: 7.8 out of 10.0 - Good, a bit abrubt perhaps, but okay.
Originality: 8.0 out of 10.0 - A fairly original mod work.
Sound: 7.5 out of 10.0 - Samples/no-echoing/no-layering hurt.
------------ ---- ------ ---- -----------------------------------------
SubTotal: 54.1 out of 70.0
+My Opinion: 5.0 out of 0.0 - I personally liked this very much.
------------ --- ------ ---- -----------------------------------------
Total: 59.1 out of 70.0 = 84.4%, which is a B.
Allow me to explain my rating system: tracking is based on technical
expertise, whether the tracker has taken the time to improve the sound of
his/her module through technical aspects like layering, echoing, and so
forth (if necessary). The sample score rates the quality and usage of
the samples (NOT the originality). I could care less if people "borrow"
samples, as long as they use them WELL. The melodies and harmonies score
rate how well the lead lines are and how well the harmonies fit in to
them. The transition score rates how well the music flows from one part
to another. Since nothing can always be brand new and "fresh off the
boat," the originality score mainly reflects how well ideas are implement
-ed in the song. The sound rating determines the integrity of the entire
composition for enjoyable listening. Tinny and harsh samples, bad cutoffs,
and bad transitions will hurt. Finally, I have my own 5 point bonus score
in which my own subjectivity is involved. I grade on the standard 0-100%
A through F system.
Since all these ratings are essentially my opinion, please feel free to
disagree with them and email me at gwie@owl.csusm.edu informing me of my
lack of vision and lack of intellect. Please feel free to email me any
songs you might want to have reviewed, via MIME or UUEncode (absolutely
NO MAC-BINHEX!) Just be warned that I will be very blunt. I do play the
songs several times over, not just ONCE, in order to hear different things
in your modules. I don't give marks based on reputation, like/dislike for
the person, or power politics. If it sucks, it sucks. If it's good, it's
good.
Spyder, I hope this review aids you in your further tracking exploits,
and that all of you will come to recognize that the purpose of reviews is
to help people improve, not to insult and degrade.
-psib [traxweekly]
gwie@owl.csusm.edu
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--[3. Impulse Tracker Trivia]-------------------------------------[Random]--
Hello, my name is Random and I just thought I would write this short
article for Traxweekly after seeing something odd that really stuck in my
mind.
I am not a musician, well not really, I am a coder, and Im more into demos
and whatever. But anyway I think this would be an interesting article for
any Traxweekly reader.
It started when I had a look at Impulse Tracker, which I think is quite
nice, but that's not the point. I was reading the DOC file when I found
this rather odd statement! Refering to the Autodetection routine which
checks for SB16 first.
> Why Sound Blaster 16 first? Well, it's because it can support
> 64 channels at 45454Hz mixing speed (depending on a processor)
> The most the GUS can support is 32 channels ay 19kHz mixing
> speed. Shame, since it's such a powerful card on all other
> aspects.
That is the kind of statement which has started many arguements.. But that
is the last thing I want to do! Anyway, I started thinking about it, and
I think there are some things that will interest everyone who is into
sound and music on the pc!
Basically as I see it that sentance is saying that through SOFTWARE mixing
on that particular processor the SB16 can mix 64 channels at 44KHz. Yes
that is true, and on a better processor it can mix more. But it also says
that the GUS can only do 32 channels at 19Khz. Hmm, that point irritated
me, as it is well 'false'. Not wrong, but not true either.. As it is
refering to the hardware capability of the GUS, where as it is refering to
the software capability of the CPU with SB16!
But I dont want to sound like I'm fighting a GUS vs. SB16 arguement! :) So,
I'll get to the point. I started thinking about this, and it is quite
interesting.. :)
According to that sentance on that one processor (whatever it was), the
SB16 could mix 64 channels at 44KHz, which is quite true. But the GUS
works differently, it doesnt *necessarly* need software mixing (as the SB16
does). So the GUS does it all by hardware, but unfortunatly the quality
drops off after 14 channels. (What am I getting at? Bear with me im getting
there :]) Now the SB16 can do some hardware stuff, it can do 2 channels at
44KHz (Left and Right).
So now if instead of using the GUS to do the mixing which is what just
about ALL music players/trackers do, you could MIX the music with Software
with the CPU just like you would on a SB16. But the advantage is that on
the SB16 if you want to mix 64 channels you have to mix 32 (64/2) together
to go to each channel which the SB16 has. But on the GUS (at 44Khz) you
would only need to mix 64/14 channels together!
So hears my point. If a SB16 can mix 64 channels at 44Khz on a particular
CPU, then on the same CPU using a very different technique (than normal)
the GUS could do *7* times MORE! (Seven coming from 7 more channels for
each SB16 one!)
Well, the astounding thing is then, with that assumption and that example,
if the SB16 can do 64 channels at 44Khz, then the GUS can do *448* channels
at 44Khz!! :) And if you are using a GUSMAX everything is automatically
48Khz.. Hmmm, intersting?
Okay, so now that is of course at 44Khz (or 48Khz) if you let the frequency
drop, to 19Khz, then the SB16 can do what 2.3 times more? Which makes it
able to do about 148 channels on that CPU. Well, the GUS at that frequency,
can do not only the 2.3 times more from using less CPU, but it can now mix
32 channels with HARDWARE, which will make the difference a further 16
times more!
So, who will be the first to write a tracker capable of mixing 2368
channels on a GUS at 19Khz? =)
Well, okay thats all I have to say, I like those numbers. :) They are not
*perfectly* true, as there is some more things to the mixing of the
channels such as panning.. But that can be worked out, and those numbers
will still hold quite true I believe. :) Even though any more than 64
channels really is totally useless. :)
Hehe, anyway contact *me* with you comments, I hate to see Traxweekly
become a big arguement centre!
Later then!
Random / xtatic / Oz96 Organizer dude
random@geko.com.au (or soon random@zip.com.au)
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--[4. Oz96 Demoparty Results]-------------------------------------[Random]--
Subject: Oz96 Music Compo Info/Results
Author: Random / xtatic / Oz96 Organizer
Hello, Random here.. I am writing this little blurb about the Oz96 Music
compertition, which was held at the Oz96 Demo party (duh?) On the 17th to
the 19th of January, 1996! I just thought I would write this little thing
only about the music entries, so that you all are slightly happy, and you
may consider downloading some of them! :)
Okay there were actually two music compos, one normal; max 1meg unlimited
channels, etc. And the other a 16kb Chip compo; Max size 16k, etc.. The
two compos also had quite nice prizes (although you had to attend the party
to recieve one). The first prize for the Music compo (normal one), was a
GUS Plug 'n Play! Which is the new GUS card using the Interwave (woop) chip
and is generally wow worthy. :)
I wont bore you with the details of how the actual party went, you can read
all that when I bother to write it for DemoNews or some crap. :) But I will
say this, the music compo was very popular! With 24 entries in the Normal
music compo alone, unfortunatly it took almost 2 hours to go through them
all, and so some people didnt bother voting. :(
The actual quality of music was very high! Unfortunatly playing music on
such a sound system as what we had, the tunes that actually play best are
usually technoish tunes, and we had a significant few techno tunes played!
But they were not the most popular, as could be indicated in the results.
Some of the people who entered the compo, were MickRippon (yeah you all
should know him :]), Jase, Hunz, Void, and well all the others on the list.
:) Unfortunatly Jase (winner of MC3, etc, etc :]) didnt get a chance to
enter the full music compo with a finnished tune. So he didnt place well,
also MickR despite his grim predictions in TW#41 (his interview), did place
well! :)
Okey well here I will attach the results, they do seem to be a bit odd, as
the points column is rather weird towards the bottom :), but they are true!
(Yeah there is a mistake in the points column, I am unable to fix it yet,
but the actual placings are correct!)
music compo
===========
rank points song - artist
---- ------ -------------
1st 25 get on up, get on down - matt
2nd 22 aftermath - void(1)
3rd 18 song of the tired man - tuksu(2)
4th 17 gravey - hunz
5th 16 maximalism - mik ripon(3)
6th 14 the gulf of war - RAM
7th= 12 bouncey beats - the key
7th= 12 step back - kitsune
9th 10 unlimited power - caliban
10th 10 oasis - legend
11th 6 overlanders - ?
12th= 18 inverted reality - ?
12th= 18 noname - ?
12th= 18 nectropolis exmortem - sane
12th= 18 under the full moon
16th= 1 appreciation - the walker
16th= 1 warp speed - turrican
18th= 0 brinx - sirwalt
18th= 0 clank (scrape remix) - ensanguined
18th= 0 drop it - fobik
18th= 0 echo point - jase
18th= 0 quiet storm - ?
18th= 0 post temporal energy - rog
18th= 0 my life in the clouds - fishman
16k music
=========
rank points artist - song
---- ------ -------------
1st 30 clef - pressure
2nd 18 yanis - furbles
3rd 16 jase - eternaldream 2
4th= 14 8k of fun - random&sane^xtatic
4th= 14 apollyon - happy crap
6th 13 caliban - end of time
7th 11 jase - no beats required
8th= 5 rog - first and last
8th= 5 tuksu - the setting sun
I suggest you get as many of those as you can. They are all very good! :)
And they should all be on ftp.cdrom.com by the time you read this! :)
BTW. If you see a '?' next to your entry, tell us please. =)
Umm thats all then.. (See my 'lil co-entry in there? ;])
Random / xtatic / Oz96 Organizer dude
random@zip.com.au (new email address!)
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--[5. No Justice in Ratings]-----------------------------------[C. Ray C.]--
Well, light wrote an interesting article about the cdrom ratings,
and I want to just add to that real quick.
I was the guy who said "the hell with you then" or whatever it was
that I said; who I said it to I don't think is important at this
point.
I'm not going to get into what actually happened, but I think Light
has found the problem in this case, that me and the hornet ratings
guys got pissed off at each other, and I hope this doesn't reflect
some trend in the tracking/music scene itself.
There are four problems I want to point out with the ratings situation:
1. There are quite a lot of people (I'm not sure how many) that really
get sick at the demonews music ratings, either because a bad song
was rated like **** or something, or because a song that they
personally loved got rated **+ or something.
In my case specifically, I see a lot of (mostly techno) songs that
_love_ get rated usually ***+. This is astonishingly a very regular
rating for the songs I like, but it doesn't help me out because a
lot songs I don't like get rated like that too, so I have a lot of
trouble finding the songs I like on cdrom.
2. Demonews (perhaps the tracking scene in general?) seems to have a
bias against techno. I can't quantify it, but I mentioned this to
Diablo, and he said (I've deleted the original) something like
"well maybe the techno music we get isn't musically sound" -
he didn't exactly say this, but it brings up the idea that techno
is in opposition to established music theory, which I disagree with.
I'm far from a music theory expert, but from what I have gathered,
music theory lacks any sort of theory about rhythm. I think to
a large extent techno (and other forms of music, like rap) are
advancing in terms of rhythm, and it's just something that the
people who determine what constitutes music theory haven't thought
too much about rhythm... yet.
Anyways, techno is in a sense beyond music theory, and you shouldn't
reject this emphasis on rhythm (or lack of chord progressions etc)
outright.
3. I'm used to people hating techno and inconsistent ratings, but when
someone started trying to justify the anonymous nature of the music
ratings, it just sounded ridiculous. If you grab any sort of
newspaper or magazine from who knows where, you can look at the
letters section, and they always say they don't accept anonymous
letters. Likewise, they don't print anonymous articles, and the
reviewers have to put their name on their reviews.
This is a basic part of journalistic integrity, that if you can't
put your name (or even a pseudonym) on something you write, it's
hardly worth more than the paper it's printed on (or the disk space
it takes up or whatever).
This defense that was given to me (which is when I said 'the hell
you') was that the reviewers would then have to put up with scorn
from people who hate the ratings. I remember reading an article
in the Atlantic Monthly by this guy who use to write for the New
York Times Book Review, and it was basically about all the crap he
got from authors and fans - they tried suing him, mail-bombing him,
getting him fired, and of course he got tons of plain nasty mail.
But all it showed was just how much faith the reviewers put into
their work, and that if they truly were bad reviews, they would get
even worse than that and they would deserve it.
This attack on one of my proposed changes to the ratings system was
one of many, but it just made me sick to my stomach that the music
scene that I spend so much time on has people that will stoop so
low. I hope you realize the poor judgement of the anonymous ratings
system and change it.
4. I think we could solve this ratings problem (yes I want to point out
again that there is a problem, just ask at any random time what
people in #trax think of the demonews ratings and you'll be surprised
like I was) by getting some more competition, and having several
sources of music ratings. I was going to start a web site or a
listserv or something, but I don't have time for that... well, maybe
I will if enough people agree with this idea and want to help out.
Anyways, I want to someday be able to read traxweekly, demonews, and
whatever else is out there, look at the music ratings/reviews, and
based on the recommendations of these publications, pick a song from
ftp.cdrom.com, listen to it, and like it. This is already the case with
movies, books, and commercial music, and I feel we can and _should_
achieve this.
Christopher Cramer (c-ray-c)
cramerc@elwha.evergreen.edu
crayc@chinet.chinet.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--[6. Ratings Have a Purpose]------------------------------------[TheFinn]--
=-------------------------------------------------[Letters and Feedback:]-=
Location /dev/null Size Rated Description
=------------------------------ ---- ----- -------------------------------=
Light/Kosmic 5 ***** remember kiddo's, F--- THE VOTE.
Sorry... couldn't resist.
I _am_ a musician. My last two (serious) songs got ** and *+ in demonews.
(I don't really care what tfboobs has gotten or will get. It was a
joke...) What does this mean? Whoever reviewed my tunes didn't like them
that much. Gee. I guess now I should go commit suicide. (Just kidding.
Do you know how many rights you lose once you've been committed to a
mental institution?)
By submitting my songs to demonews, I _ask_ for their opinions. Remember
that opinions are like a--holes: most everyone's got one. (If they don't,
they've got to have some kind of hole to pass the sh-- through. Of
course, most of the time they've got to have this stinking bag of sh--
attached to the hole, which really sucks. Ask _your_ doctor about an
oleostomy[tm].)
Light wrote: (I'm taking snippets... feel free to flame me if I get things
out of context.)
> If we use this 'rating system' much longer, it's only gonna make it
> worse, we have made up this un-definable chart of requirements to what
> makes good music, and we stick to it, even though some people make a
> VALIANT effort to try and do something they think people will enjoy (And
> yet, somehow, we don't because it doesn't fit the rules).
The rating system doesn't fit who's rules? Yours? I guess not. It
doesn't particularly match mine, either. But I'm sure it matches whoever
is doing the reviewing. Who's this "we" who are sticking to "the rules?"
I assume you're not. I don't. But the reviewer probably is.
A bad rating (at least from me) isn't a knock on the effort someone made
to write a song. Effort .ne. Final_Product. (My apologies to those
coders who actually know what language .ne. is from.) Or more precisely, a
rating of the final product is independant from the rating of the effort.
There are people who write really nifty songs, but really don't take any
effort at all to write them. Sometimes effortless noodling sounds good.
Sometimes hours of excruciating painstaking tracking sounds like crap.
> It's the whole system folx, something has to be changed, or we're gonna
> wind up like the rest of AmeriKKKa. Look at all the slime that live in
> our ghetto's. They don't think they can go anywhere in life, because a
> guy on TV has a brand new Jaguar and a beautiful wife and a house with
> 3 kids and good clothes.
> Yet, these 'little guys' are doing something that makes them happy, but
> at the same time, are getting knocked down because they don't have the
> right samples or something.
If the 'little guys' are doing something that makes them happy, why should
they even care about ratings? Critics have and will always exist. There
will always be the guy with the brand new car, a beautiful wife, three
beautiful kids, and good clothes. Deal with it. Not everybody is going
to like the tunes you write. Deal with it. Don't get jealous about it.
Does the problem lie with the guy in the ghetto, or with the guy who has
the Jag? The guy in the ghetto could do without being jealous of the guy
with the Jag, and the guy with the Jag could do by helping the guy in the
ghetto. It's not that one-sided.
If you feel like the guy in the ghetto, get off your a-- and quit being
so jealous. If you're the guy with the good clothes, don't flaunt it or
get prideful about it. I'm very thankful that CrackHead, NecroPhiliac
and Murple Lotion aren't ego-filled pride-bursting superstars. That in
itself means that the scene can't be _that_ bad.
> The whole scene has gone to sh-- because of this crap. People's self
> esteems are getting low, and nerves are on end. I don't want to see this
> crap. I think we should realize that even though it may not be a five
> star tune, it can still be a 5 star effort. MOTHERF--- the ratings.
MOTHERF--- the people who release their stuff and then complain when they
get low ratings. Don't release if you can't take a bad opinion from
someone, or put something in your song to the extent of "opinions welcomed
via email, but please don't publicly rate this song."
> I'm sorry, but I don't want to see people arguing and fighting like two
> roosters in a cage when it comes to a trivial question such as 'his tune
> is better than mine because he got **** and I got **'. F--- that.
I agree here. Bickering just sucks. But I can't place the blame on the
ratings for that. It's the people bickering who have the problem(s).
Ratings are getting much more attention than they deserve. I can
understand it, becase demonews is practically the only place where you're
going to see the *s rating thing going on, and it's the only major one, so
it's going to be looked at with quite a bit more credibility than if there
were dozens. But there's no reason why folks need to _give_ the ratings
that much credibility.
The answer is simple: change your rating of the ratings. :)
The Finn / VLA
Aaron J. Grier
agrier@reed.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--[7. How Ratings Work]-----------------------------------------[Atlantic]--
> In issue #43, Light wrote -
>
> It's the whole system folx, something has to be changed, or we're
> gonna wind up like the rest of AmeriKKKa. Look at all the slime that
> live in our ghetto's. They don't think they can go anywhere in life,
> because a guy on TV has a brand new Jaguar and a beautiful wife and
> a house with 3 kids and good clothes. If we use this 'rating system'
> much longer, it's only gonna make it worse, we have made up this
> un-definable chart of requirements to what makes good music, and we
> stick to it, even though some people make a VALIANT effort to try and
> do something they think people will enjoy (And yet, somehow, we don't
> because it doesn't fit the rules). Yet, these 'little guys' are doing
> something that makes them happy, but at the same time, are getting
> knocked down because they don't have the right samples or something.
I liked your article for several reasons dude. One, you took the
chance to voice an opinion which you cared about and which concerns
you. Secondly, you're not alone. I too share your line of thought -
to an extent.
I've never been a big fan of demonews myself. I don't really see the
point. According to them, the main purpose is to show people "what music
is worth picking up" and I don't see the point. Why should one piece of
music be more "worth picking up" than another? To me, it's more about
egoboosting than anything else. Remember though, there's a difference
between a "*+" and a page-long analysis.
Perhaps there are a few things you didn't consider. People send me music
for review. They want me to look at their song because they value my
opinion, and they think that the advice I give may enable them to write
better. The result? Hopefully their ability to track is improved to just
that little bit more, and they can enjoy their hobby just that little
bit more.
I'm not out to impose any societal ideals. I don't tell people what
was WRONG with their song, I tell people what sounded like it could use
more work, TO ME. Opinions. The absolute last thing I'd ever want to
do would be to try and create a formulaic idea and throw it upon all the
music I get. People have tried to do that to me, saying "You're song
structure is a little strange man, there shouldn't be anything after
the climax like that", and it makes me pretty hostile, kinda like you
were in writin your article. =)
You have a very good point when you say that little guys are getting
knocked down just for doing something they enjoy. I agree, it's happening
all over the place. In my opinion, part of it is due to the average age of
a sceneperson - we're dealing with some immature people sometimes.
Yet art is a communication, in whatever form it's in, and ultimately
just about every person in the music scene is out to impress others with
their ability. Why else would we release to the public? I think
constructive criticism, done sensibly and positively, is a fine way to
test what kind of impression your music leaves on people.
Thanks for speaking out,
Atlantic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--[8. HORNET Ratings]--------------------------------------------[Trixter]--
This is Hornet's official response to Light/Kosmic's article on how
the rating system in DemoNews is bad.
> Well, Now, I'm not musician, and I don't really care about ratings
> and ego's, but, this strikes me as odd. This isn't the way things are
> supposed to be. People aren't supposed to let an issue as trivial as
> 'ratings' come between them
This is completely true, and is the view subscribed by the members
of Hornet. The ratings are provided as a service, and are completely
subjective. They are not compo ratings, personal opinions of the
composer, or otherwise. If you don't like a rating, then simply
ignore it. They are provided as a generic guideline that will be
explained later in this response.
> There's one thing that sets
> these guys apart from the rest however, and that's five little stars in
> a weekly publication and in 00index files.
I'd like to clarify that we've only given five-star ratings to very
few songs (less than 10 out of thousands)... We reserve that rating
for songs we feel are truly exceptional. We take our ratings
seriously, and are not flippant with the distribution of five-star
ratings.
> groups. Well, these groups, put out really, REALLY good music, and ALWAYS
> get the cherished 5 little stars, well, some of the other musicians look
As I mentioned before, we do not *always* give out five-star ratings
to certain groups, or certain composers.
> It's the whole system folx, something has to be changed, or we're
> gonna wind up like the rest of AmeriKKKa. Look at all the slime that
"AmeriKKKa"? I fail to see the connection between racism and
computer music. :-)
> because it doesn't fit the rules). Yet, these 'little guys' are doing
> something that makes them happy, but at the same time, are getting
> knocked down because they don't have the right samples or something.
We are not rating the music to "knock down" anyone.
> AT LEAST THEY F---ING TRIED. AT LEAST THEY'RE MAKING AN EFFORT TO TRY
> AND DO SOMETHING WORTHWHILE INSTEAD OF SITTING BACK, DOING NOTHING, AND
> MAKING THE 'SCENE' A HORRIBLE PLACE TO BE.
And we're not? We're the most regular magazine on the demo scene,
and have been since 1993. We also manage the world's busiest
archive of demos and scene music in the world. We're not getting
paid to do this, and it's quite a bit of work!
> The whole scene has gone to sh-- because of this crap. People's
> self esteems are getting low, and nerves are on end. I don't want to
> see this crap. I think we should realize that even though it may not
> be a five star tune, it can still be a 5 star effort. MOTHERF--- the
> ratings. I'm sorry, but I don't want to see people arguing and fighting
> like two roosters in a cage when it comes to a trivial question such
> as 'his tune is better than mine because he got **** and I got **'.
> F--- that. I want people to be happy with each other (and maybe get
> naked or something and pose for me, but who knows. :)
Hopefully your point in the above paragraph was to say that the
ratings aren't worth fighting over. This is completely true; they
aren't worth fighting over, not by any means.
We rate the music because of the unique problem that the music scene
has: Over 30 megabytes of music are uploaded every two weeks, on
average. Certainly not everyone has the resources to download all
of this, let alone find time to listen and review all of it. So, as
a service to the scene, we rate the songs. This way, people can
download only the songs they think they'd be interested in. For
those who don't care about ratings, they go ahead and download all
of it; for those who have a very limited schedule, they can download
everything in the ** or *** categories; and so on. They are
subjective, obviously, so if you've ever disagreed with any of our
ratings, you should probably ignore them.
If it's any consolation, the music is rated by other musicians and
composers. In other words, we aren't picking people off the street
who know nothing about music to rate them.
As (I hope) Light is trying to say, the music ratings are not worth
fighting over. Good music is any music that you've learned from
or had a good time tracking.
Jim Leonard (Trixter / Hornet)
Email: trixter@mcs.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--[9. Ratings and Opinions]------------------------------------[Psibelius]--
The controversy over ratings, especially DemoNews' ***** rating system and
TraxWeekly's percentage system, is getting way out of focus. During the
last few weeks, debate over "ratings" and "rating systems" has expanded
from minor complaints and bickering to heated arguments and condemnation of
music reviewers everywhere.
I've never had a song rated by anyone, save for in Music Contest 3, nor
have I printed any song reviews by anyone or any group. So this furor over
ratings is not only depressing, but it's annoying as well.
The first issue is people who complain about the DemoNews rating system:
If you don't want your songs rated by DN, then why, pray, do you upload
your songs to the HORNET archive? By deciding to send your song to HORNET
for distribution, you allow it to be rated in return. Does HORNET charge
you anything for access to the best scene related FTP site in the world?
If you don't like the ratings, then make a difference. Don't sit on your
rump and whine. It's a given that reviewers cannot be objective. The
rating of music in itself is a subjective concept. Opinion rules more than
anything, no matter how hard we try to avoid it. Granted, the DN review
crew is inconsistent at times, but I personally think they should be
handing out more +'s and *'s and fewer ****+'s and *****'s.
I've seen people complain that "DN reviews are the opinion of one
person." These people don't have a clue what actually goes on with DN
reviewing. They blindly make false accusations based on what they *think*
happens, not what actually happens. There are a number of reviewers within
HORNET, and they all have a job to do. Put yourself in the same situation.
Can you be best buddy to every single musician who uploads a song there?
Of course not, that's ludicrous. Somewhere along the line, you're going
to have to tell someone that their composition sucks. Too bad.
TraxWeekly reviewing is much of the same, except that Atlantic and Deus Ex
review songs by request. Musicians who send their music to these TW
writers and reviewers actually want an opinion. I want to say up front
that Atlantic and DeusEx are doing a terrific job, regardless of their
opinions and criticism. How many of you would be willing to take the time
to do what they do, and take the heat for it? If you don't like the
TraxWeekly reviewing system, unsubscribe so you don't clog up the list
-server for the other readers.
I have to say I agree somewhat with c-ray-c about anonymous music ratings.
I'm pretty sure that without revealing your name to others, you'd be less
worried about offending someone. That takes some of the pressure off of
of reviewing, and it gets some real ratings out there (who cares who wrote
it, if it sucks, it sucks). However, perhaps a "list of reviewers" should
be published so that at least the people who reviewed the songs can be
known publicly, without saying which individual songs each one actually
reviewed. I believe this serves interests on both sides: The musicians
know generally who is listening to their music, and the reviewers won't be
as subject to personal attacks as an individual.
I understand that this day in age, we all want to get along, we all want
to track like gods, and we all want our music to be liked. Too bad that
Utopia doesn't exist. =) Ratings really aren't the be-all-end-all of
anything. All they are, are opinions about your music be people who have
actually taken the time to listen to your music. I think that they
deserve some credit for that.
Have a great day.
-psib [traxweekly]
gwie@owl.csusm.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
/-[Faces in the Crowd]------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
--[10. Interview with Acidfrog]-------------------------------------[Zinc]--
<zinc> How are you tonight acidfrog? :D
<Acidfrog> heh..
<Acidfrog> good man
<zinc> okay, well for those who don't know who you are, could you please
decribe yourself? You know, all the general stuff.
<Acidfrog> My name in the real world is Cam Goodman, i'm 19 and have been
tracking for about 2 years now. I also am a DJ and work on the radio.
<Acidfrog> not general enough?
<Acidfrog> :)
<zinc> okay good. How about your group status, and past?
<zinc> (music history)
<Acidfrog> Well group status I was in the group Radiance, and Spice..
I am also sitting in limbo with LoK right now not having released
anything with them yet. Other than that I've been a DJ for roughly
5 years.. starting of doing a tv/radio show and then getting involved
with a college radio station, I also have 2 years of musical theory
that i took in high school where I learned all about MIDI and that junk :)
<zinc> nifty. How is MIDI compared to tracking, especially in FT2?
<Acidfrog> Basically its the same idea except with MIDI its alot quicker
and easier to get your ideas across, especially when dealing with effects
and such.. you just click a few buttons on the effects machine and yer
there.. whereas in tracking, even on FT2 you have to put alot more work
into your music to get the same results.
<zinc> How about samples? Do you find an advantage tracking wise in that
area?
<Acidfrog> Samples with tracking will never be up to par with MIDI due
to the lack of memory on the PC..
<Acidfrog> You can sample with MIDI to :)
<Acidfrog> MIDI equiptment i should say
<zinc> Okay, well I've known you for a while before you had internet
access, so how is the world-wide scene different than the local scene
in 604? (area code 604)
<Acidfrog> The only real difference would be the size of the scene.. In
any local scene everyone seems to know everyone, and the quality is all
around the same level with of course exceptions.. Here on the internet
there can be masses of wicked stuff and masses of crap. Its just
incredibly diverse and rich with talent.
<zinc> Speaking of talent, are there any trackers you've discovered that
you really like now, that you hadn't known about before?
<zinc> (before = before you had internet access)
<Acidfrog> A group that I had never heard of before that I really respect
would be Charlie Brown Records. I got some of there stuff on a whim and
it turned out to have consistent quality, I like Pedros stuff.. those
Italians are in tha house!
<Acidfrog> heh.. are my answers too long?
<zinc> no they are perfect :) gives me more time to think up dumb
questions!
<zinc> What are your future aspirations?
<Acidfrog> In life or tracking?
<zinc> both
<Acidfrog> Well the both go hand in hand I suppose, I hope to one day
soon release my first 12", maybe in the future have my own studio and
record label.. I also want to persue my DJ career further.. Right now
since I don't have access to any studio tracking is a good release and is
something I will plan on doing for a while just because I love creating :)
<zinc> You sound pretty serious about this then; what kind of equipment
do you use?
<Acidfrog> My current setup is pretty meager.. I have a 386DX40 with a
Gus MAX hooked up to a mixer, cd-player, tape deck and turntable (all for
sampling) all going through my 250watt amp powering a 12" bass speaker
and 2 crappy 6x9's for the mid-high range.
<zinc> well, it's probably better than a lot of trackers... like me :)
eheh.. Do you think there should be a special fund to help trackers
like us get better equipment? :D
<Acidfrog> That would be nice but probably would really be possible. My
advice would to be to just hunt around for old s---.. like garage sales
and second hand stores.. you can find some cool amps/speakers and other
stuff for cheap..
<Acidfrog> I mean impossible :)
<zinc> hahaha... I was joking anyways, but yes, that's a
good idea. But I doubt you could find a GUS at a garage
sale... *shrug/grin*
<Acidfrog> yeah of course not :)
<zinc> Do you have any immediate goals then, in the tracking world? Like,
groups you'd like to join one day, or projects you'd like to do?
<Acidfrog> My goals right now are to just to keep tracking. I try to
learn something new with every song I do, that right now is pretty much it.
<zinc> okay, well enough with the interrogation type stuff... here's a
few questions on the lighter side of the moon...
<Acidfrog> ok
<zinc> If you had a cat who accidentaly fell across your keyboard while
you were tracking, and accidentally made a really cool chord progression
which you used to make an award winning song out of, what would call it,
and would you give any credit to the cat?
<Acidfrog> I don't know what I'd call it but my cat would definatley get
a new scratching post.
<zinc> heehe.. okay here's another one..
<zinc> You have obviously noticed the predominant #trax lingo.. if you
could invent the new catch-phrase/word to be used in #trax, what would
it be?
<Acidfrog> trakker cru
<zinc> okay, and the last moony question:
<Acidfrog> a'ight
<zinc> You host a compo, but nobody shows up.. You've spent a LOT of
money on food and equipment, etc.. However, you decide to host it
anyway, and enter all the categories. Since it's your compo, you can
make any categories you want, and win it no matter what. What categories
do you make up?
<Acidfrog> I wouldn't make up any categories.. I'd invite all my
non-trakker friends over and have a real party :)
<zinc> yeah, I'd do that too, but that's not very amusing to the readers
hehe...
<zinc> Okay, well now for the final boring yet exciting
stuff...
<zinc> Anybody you wish to greet at this time? People you'd
like to thank? Someone you want to spank?
<Acidfrog> I don't want to greet a bunch of people becuase I know I'll
forget someone, but I would like to say thanks to fred for helping me
along when i first came on to #trax 5months ago.. spankings out to Zinc
for asking that stupid cat question :)
<zinc> hahahahahaha :) oh wait that's me :)
<Acidfrog> heh :)
<zinc> Thought I'd throw in that you are a jungle freak. Somehow we
missed mentioning that! anyways... Where can we find your stuff? And
under what filenames?
<Acidfrog> you can find some of my stuff on ftp.cdrom.com under XMs
starting in 95 .. I'm also on a few web pages but I can't remember the
adresses.. my stuff is always AF-*.ZIP
<zinc> okay nifty.. well that concludes the interview... any
last werds?
<Acidfrog> Just to not get all caught up in this group s---.. I feel
groups are used as a status symbol and thats really too bad.. Just
stay true to yourself and good things will come.
<zinc> okay cool. thanks for finally getting inteviewed by me
<zinc> :)
<Acidfrog> No prob! Thank you!
* Acidfrog says "Rockin me rockin you! Jungle with tha
hardcore crew!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
/-[Group Columns]-----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
--[11. Epinicion Productions]-----------------------------------------------
___ _______ _____________ ______ ______ _______ ______ _______ ___________
| // \\ \\_____) \\_____) \\_____) \\ \\ |
: / o \ o \ \ \ \ \ \ o \ \:
// _____// / \ : / \ _____/ \ / : \.
\\_______/ _//______\\_|__//______\\_____//______\\_____//____| /:
: \\____\\ ______________________________ oT /___//|
|________________________// e p i n i c i o n \\________________|
As some of you may have heard, Epinicion Productions is undergoing some
massive changes next month. We will be rebuilding our entire group from
the ground up in order to improve our quality, solidify our membership
base, and set some new standards both for ourselves and for the music
scene as well.
Musicians wishing to join our group are still welcome. Please email
me at gwie@owl.csusm.edu. You will be included with the group
restructuring process in February as well, and that will have nothing to
do with your acceptance into this group.
-----
Group Restructuring: Information packets for the group re-organization
will be mailed out starting February 10th.
ALL of Epinicion's 1995 and 1996 releases can be found through ftp at:
kosmic.wit.com /kosmic/epinicion
Epinicion's revised webpage can be found at the following address:
http://www.csusm.edu/public/guests/gwie/epi.html. The page has gone
under many changes, and we will have a complete listing of all songs
available for download along with reviews by summer!
Psibelius (Gene Wie)
Epinicion Founder
gwie@owl.csusm.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--[12. Explizit]------------------------------------------------------------
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:::::/ \__| \_ :::\ / / / | \ / |::::::
:
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::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::[sYNOPTiC]:::
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Explizit TraxWeekly column issue #7 - january 25, 1995
. .
.' yeh `.
`...........'
Hi there!
Join the explizit mailing-list and receive all our releases MIME-
encoded in your mailbox! Send email to explizit@dds.nl with SUBSCRIBE
in the body of your message to subscribe.
We still have no homepage, maybe next week! :)
Ch:ilm
explizit
. .
.' explizit membaz `.
`.......................'
Explizit group-mail [use this one!] explizit@dds.nl
Ch:ilm staff chilm@quazar.idn.nl
Phonc(ie) music,staff W.Langenhuizen@nl.cis.philips.com
Batjo music tgcpaw@stud.tue.nl
Jay music - none -
Paranoid Man gfx - none -
LightWing code pflick@xmission.com
. .
.' news `.
`..........'
Coming up (last half of january)
- the deadline to our diskmag EXPLORATiON.
. .
.' releases `.
`...............'
E-RAON.RAR had to be E-RAVEON.RAR, sorry.
E-RAPA.ZIP Jan-20 Jay
Raving On Arrakis music-pack
A musicdisk by Jay, inspired by the german Dune, but not two
simple remixes....on the contrary! Two all new rave tracks,
with a lot of home-made chords and stuff.
. .
.' end `.
`...........'
Thank you for reading, you can ftp all our releases from:
ftp://ftp.uniserve.com/pub/gamesnet/EXPLiZiT/
(does anyone know of an other FAST and RELIABLE site?)
For feedback, info and a wreal kewl homepage:
http://www.netland.nl/~outlandm/explizit.html
(since my beatiful hack was discovered they'll nuke this
site within a couple of days. Enjoy while you can! :)
Ch:ilm/Explizit
explizit@dds.nl
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/-[Advertisements]----------------------------------------------------------
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IlliCiT needs musicians to provide music for their diskmag INSIDE. If
you would like your tune to be included in this mag, please email Mercator
at the address below.
Tunes must be under 250 K.
MERCATOR of IlliCiT (Coder, Organizer)
email: e9225889@student.tuwien.ac.at
IlliCiT Homepage: http://dipl1-iwi.uibk.ac.at/Mercator/illicit.html
And if not on earth, then we will meet in heaven,
because in heaven, there will always be ASSEMBLY and PARTY !
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