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Silicon Times Report Issue 0061
ST REPORT WEEKLY ONLINE MAGAZINE
--------------------------------
Monday, NOV. 14, 1988
Vol. II No. 61
==========================================================================
ST Report Online Magazine Inc.
------------------------------
Post Office Box 6672
Jacksonville, Florida
32236 6672
R.F. Mariano
Publisher - Editor
====================['The Original Online ST Magazine']===================
Headquarters Bulletin Boards
----------------------------
North South
201-343-1426 904-786-4176
Central West
216-784-0574 916-962-2566
=======================================================================
CONTENTS
========
~ From the Editor's Desk.............~ CIS Conference with ST Report.
~ Elwood's Postscript................~ Pocket What?..................
~ ST REPORT CONFIDENTIAL (COMDEX)....~ Pro GEM Windows #12...........
========================================================================
AVAILABLE ON: COMP-U-SERVE ~ DELPHI ~ GENIE ~ THE SOURCE
========================================================================
From the Editor's Desk;
Greetings to all... As we have Comdex at the door, I am relieved to
let you all know Atari is on the march once again. We will, for the
duration of Comdex, provide daily bulletins about the comings and goings
at Comdex.
This is the time of the year we all begin to feel a little better
about ourselves and the folks around us, hopefully, with this attitude we
all can begin a renewed belief in Atari and in each other. Especially
since it is the beginning of the holiday season. In all fairness to Atari
we wish to ask each one of you to encourage more openess from Atari and
above all else, more receptive channels on Atari's part to hear what
things the userbase would like to see come to pass.
Some of you may have attended the CO on 11/09/88, and saw what
took place...for those of you who missed the Convention Center Fiasco, it
is included here for all to see. In addition, we have certain information
in our possession which refutes the derogatory capture uploaded to the
conference area. We have included that also. Hopefully, this will
dispell any stories that may have developed as a result of this wanton
disregard of the truth.
To those of you who stood by us because you knew the truth we extend
our warmest gratitude. To those who were not sure or felt we were in the
'grey' area we extend our hand in friendship. Lastly to those who had us
dead and buried..... sorry to disappoint you! <<Grin>>
Ralph Mariano
**************************************************************************
NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE
FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY
COMPUSERVE WILL PRESENT $15.00 WORTH OF COMPLIMENTARY ONLINE TIME
to the Readers
ST REPORT ONLINE ELECTRONIC MAGAZINE
NEW USERS SIGN UP TODAY!
Call any of the St Report Official BBS numbers
(Listed at the top of ST REPORT)
or
Leave E-mail to St Report, Ron Kovacs or Rex Reade
Be sure to include your full mailing address so your
Compuserve kit can be immediately mailed to you!
Expires 11-30-88
NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE
**************************************************************************
CIS Conference with ST Report
=============================
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] okay folks. welcome to the CO. ....
To ask a question, you must type /QUE to get in line. ....
I'll enable you to speak one by one. .... Ron Kovacs and Ralph Mariano
can speak at anytime.
Ron has some opening comments. right?
(Ron Kovacs)[71777,2140] Correct
Thanks for attending this CO. Before we begin I would
like to just give a small..history of how this all started.
Before ST-Report there was Zmag, which Ralph Mariano had a part in as a
columnist....
In time we thought about starting the 16 bit magazine in an effort...
to follow the same course that Zmag had taken...We went from a monthly
newsletter to bi-weekly to weekly and then to the trusted hands of
Ralph Mariano (IE: Rex Reade). The course of STR has gone from nothing
to the outspoken newsletter it is because of the efforts..of Ralph
Mariano... I will let Ralph make an opening statement at this time..
GA Ralph.
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] Thank You.
At this time I would like to express my sincere gratitude to Ron
Kovacs for wearing many hats in his guidance of myself and ST
Report. Primarily he always emphasized that we provide the facts and
make sure they were true even if amplified or magnified. I really
would like to express my sincere thanks to everybody for their support,
both positive and negative for in truth, support is support.
Let the questions begin.
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] okay....
to ask a question, type /QUE. ...
who wants to start? okay. Let me toss the 1st one out....
Ralph:....besides the obvious article reprints....like the Oren
tutorials about GEM....where do you get most of your weekly material? ga
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] I am very glad you asked that
question. There are a number of things I would like to comment about
this first..we have been asked, accosted, accused etc...of reprinting
material without permission where I did transgress somebody's rights
I got in touch with them personally and apologized in all instances I
have found that once I spoke to these folks and gave them the reason:
ST Report is not only seen by the folks on the major services but in
fact the trickle down through private bulletin boards to user groups
and ultimately to users without modems magnifies our goal to reach all
the Atari users. About obtaining our material it is a very tedious and
sometimes tiring job. I cannot in all fairness to my sources......
make any revelations that may jeopardize their secure positions
% Moderator recognizes queue #1
Dick_H <1>
(Dick_H)[76615,2013] ok...
Ralph, from reading some of your messages on the Atari boards recently
I feel that you are somewhat optimistic about...Atari's future. If
this is right, could you tell us why. ga
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] Atari certainly does have a future.
I am sure everyone in this convention center..will agree, Atari makes
the finest computer we can get our hands on and is perhaps one of the
most difficult computer companies to understand. The have a definite
future worldwide before them..all they need do is see it.ga.
(Dick_H)[76615,2013] Could you suggest how they do this?
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] My observation would be acquiring a top
notch marketing department and leaving it in place long enough to have
results. In addition...The current executives need to focus on their
responsibilities respectively and in so doing place the additional
personnel needed to remove the ridiculous workload from the current
group of employees. ga.
% Moderator recognizes queue #2
GLENN GORMAN <13>
(GLENN GORMAN)[75706,2474] RALPH, HOW COME IT WAS NEVER MENTIONED WHY
RON'S NAME DOES NOT APPEAR IN ST-ST-REPORT ga
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] Glenn, by the way, your BBS, The Cave
looks good. Now, Ron is responsible for Zmag and I for ST Report We
are co-publishers of Both magazines In other words, Ron is Zmag and
I ST Report and we are both full partners in all our ventures.
ga.
% Moderator recognizes queue #3
JOHN NAGY <4>
(JOHN NAGY)[72327,3042] Maybe you both can comment more about WHO your
magazines are. This also refers to, of course, your use of the
Psudonym REX READE, Ralph...How many people make up these magazines,
and who are they?
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] Certainly....allow me to clarify, the
business of our magazines...and the individuals contributing to these
magazines are our business unless they request to be made known to the
readers. ga.
(JOHN NAGY)[72327,3042] what?????
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] You wont reveal who is on the staff of each mag?
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] Sorry, didn't stutter
(Ron Kovacs)[71777,2140] I can speak for ZMag.
Zmag is made up of 3-4 people who research material I give them.
I am the sole publisher and editor of the magazine and ST-
Reports staff is the business of RF Mariano.... The people involved
with ZMag are NOT involved with ST-Report and will never be.
RF Mariano has the right not to tell us who the specific people are,
if he so chooses, in my opinion. ga
(JOHN NAGY)[72327,3042] are you saying that the identities of the people
whio we are trusing to tell us what to believe are not our business?
It occurs to me that few publications have flourished as secret
societies...go on. maybe someone has a question you like.
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] I will answer you as best I can...
First: As with ANY probing periodical its sources of information must
be protected at all costs. to witness you, Mr. Nagy become somewhat
melodramatic and accusatory insults the level of your education...nobody
TELLS you what you have to believe....GA
(JOHN NAGY)[72327,3042] Sources, yes they are protected.
But reporters never have had such a personal sheild! ga.
% Moderator recognizes queue #4
Pattie Rayl <12>
(Pattie Rayl)[71361,411] Ralph, I have two questions...1st...Why did you use the Rex Reade name? Was it to protect you or
to hide behind?
ga
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] The Rex Reade name was not used but
developed so that now when one sees an article written by Rex they know
what to expect. Hiding, no I don't hide if it were a question of
hiding...Ralph Mariano would not be here....ga
(Pattie Rayl)[71361,411] I see...so, are you then saying that Rex is a
"state of being" not necessarily a person?
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] You could say that....or one could
easily take the Rex Reade thing for face value and not try to read
anything into it....ga.
(Pattie Rayl)[71361,411] What do you feel is your contribution to the ST
world? ga
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] REX READE...GA
(Ron Kovacs)[71777,2140] sheesh!
(Pattie Rayl)[71361,411] Hmm...guess I have to leave it at that.
% Moderator recognizes queue #6
ROBERT <3>
(ROBERT)[73457,2135] I'm a bit concerned about the professionalism...
of ST REPORT/ZMAG, specifically with....the tabloid-like reporting,
the "protecting" of reports....(reporters that was supposed to say) ...
and the "tantrums"....that appear from time to time (we are no longer....
going to be on genie one week....
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] This is not GEnie...and those problems
are solved and behind us....ga
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] okay, lets go on to the next user.
% Moderator recognizes queue #7
Elwood <11>
(Elwood)[76057,3210] I have some MAJOR concerns here with
you Ralph!
Ok here we go...Ralph, Would you agree that Atari's True Domestic
Problems Really Stem from Piracy? And if So! Then WHY! do you run a
380Meg Pirate Board and How do you expect Atari Vendor's to Honestly
sell Atari Products when you yourself are well known for *RIPPING*
people off on the Hard Drives That you Sell!!
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] Hey Elwood we see you have to hide
behind a name and personal attacks will get you no where.ga
(Elwood)[76057,3210] I would not make this up.. I have a list of your
download from 3 days ago...here it is...
(Elwood)[76057,3210] b2THE BOUNTY ST BBS
b3 Download Directory - GAME
Select> a
Number Filename Length U/L'ed Description
396) AIRWAR.ARC 163200 03/30/88 Hot new game called Air War.Multi-Pla
397) BRDG2000.ARC 62464 02/11/88 Wanna play Bridge??...go for it.
398) HGAMMON.ARC 107520 02/11/88 BackGammon very nice...you and "Hal"
399) HIQ.ARC 18432 03/20/88 the classic JUMP THE PEG game.
400) REVERSI.ARC 14336 04/09/88 NOT TO BAD/S
401) HOTSHT18.ARC 43008 04/26/88 This is Hot Shot Checkers ver. 1.8.
402) WHEELOF2.ARC 125952 05/15/88 Wheel of Fortune 2.0.......unarc
403) SAB_V165.ARC 126976 07/18/88 Statistically accurate baseball..You
404) LODERNNR.ARC 43008 03/13/88 Loderunner clone - Sorry, monochrome
405) CLIMBER.MAC 32768 03/13/88 MAC SAC game. Dodge those elevators!
406) 3D_DEMSI.PIT 15744 05/27/88 A third dimension game for MAC....
407) HOTSEX.BIN 5120 05/27/88 A fair game for the MAC
408) PNGERAM.PIT 4096 05/27/88 This is a decent game for the MAC
409) CRIBBAGE.ARC 45440 06/04/88 The game of Cribbage, NEW from GEnie
410) STARTRAS.ARC 106496 06/03/88 Beautiful demo of a game "yet to be"
(Elwood)[76057,3210] [N]ext [D]ownload [Q]uit:
Number Filename Length U/L'ed Description
411) SNAKE.PIT 66048 06/05/88 A MAC game. The old but fun game
412) ESCAPE.ARC 83840 06/05/88 maze game from GEnie
413) SHIPCOM.ARC 46080 06/12/88 good pd game of ship combat...unarc
414) SUMERCHL.ARC 138240 06/15/88 Working Demo of Summer Challenge
415) LABRYNTH.ARC 30720 06/16/88 Move the ball around the maze
416) TUNNELV.ARC 72704 06/16/88 Don't let thew size fool you..
417) MACGAMES.ARC 124928 06/19/88 This is a group of PD Games
418) VIRUS.ARC 66026 08/26/88 Virus neat new one full of action....
419) JETIBM.ARC 44288 09/27/88 IBM VERS OF JETD
420) MANFIX.PRG 1024 02/27/88 fixing the garbage on the screen
421) MACGAMES.ARC 41600 05/14/88 Three in one games for the mac sac.
422) TREKNEXT.ARC 323584 06/14/88 Star Trek...The Next Generation!!
423) PENGY.PRG 47104 07/01/88 By popular demand...Like Pengo
424) CTC8S.ARC 55936 07/02/88 Crazy 8s
425) YAHTZEE.ARC 26624 07/03/88 YAHTZEE for the IBM...
426) OIDSGALX.ARC 25728 08/26/88 Oids accessory galaxies.....
427) GALAXIES.ARC 12288 08/26/88 More oids galaxies.....
428) LAWNS.ARC 62464 08/26/88 Mow the lawn....nice grafix
429) BRICK.ARC 43008 09/05/88 A pd arcade game..not bad....unarc
430) VOYAGE.ARC 595968 07/08/88 VOYAGE..
431) GOLDEN.ARC 317952 07/18/88 Graphix adventure game.. Excellent
432) NORTH.ARC 84992 07/23/88 GREAT GAME FROM EUROPE1
433) SUPERSKI.ARC 337024 07/24/88 cool ski simulation! graphix
434) STR_GANG.ARC 530688 07/25/88 Street Gang, NOT the same thing
435) BERMUDA1.ARC 324608 07/26/88 Bermuda Project, Disk 1 of 2...
436) BERMUDA2.ARC 342016 07/26/88 Bermuda Project, disk 2 of 2...
437) STRCRZYA.ARC 244864 07/28/88 BRAND NEW FROM ENGLAND, STIRCRAZY
438) DEMONIAC.ARC 246912 07/30/88 Super Addicting Arcade with Editor
439) STRCRZYB.ARC 210176 07/28/88 DISK 2 OF STRCRZYA.ARC.
440) PHANTASM.ARC 129024 07/30/88 NEW EUROPEAN GAME....
(Elwood)[76057,3210] [N]ext [D]ownload [Q]uit:
Number Filename Length U/L'ed Description
441) GOLD2SEN.ARC 255488 08/05/88 scenery disk for goldrunner II
442) SUPRSTAR.ARC 227456 08/08/88 Super Star Ice Hockey..
443) 8BITSTUF.ARC 286720 08/09/88 This file contains over 20 8 bit
444) SKRULL.ARC 497792 08/21/88 Just check this one out
445) FRECLIMB.ARC 301696 09/01/88 FreeClimb Climb Mountains
446) INDY500.ARC 405192 09/06/88 VERY NICE RACING GAME
447) MIKMOUSE.ARC 499329 09/06/88 WORKING COPY OF MIKEY MOUSE.....
448) HEROS_12.ARC 429056 09/07/88 Hero's Of the Lance disks ONE TWO..
449) HEROS_3.ARC 168960 09/07/88 Disk Three of heros of the Lance....
450) ARMYMOVE.ARC 111872 09/16/88 Moon buggy type game
451) NEBULUS.ARC 231424 09/22/88 A nice one enjoy ..............unarc
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] Elwood- stop please. ...
452) OVERLAND.ARC 212992 09/22/88 This one works
453) HEROCRAK.ARC 39442 09/22/88 The fix for Heros
454) RANSOM_A.ARC 297984 09/22/88 Twilight's Ransom....disk 1 of 3
455) RANSOM_B.ARC 252829 09/22/88 Twilight's Ransom.....disk 2 of 2
(Elwood)[76057,3210] should I continue ralph? There is about a 100 k..
more on this list... its numbers into the thousands
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] Many of these I recognize as PD files. ....
(Elwood)[76057,3210] I am sick and tired of atari being destroy by pirates
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] I dont know all the rest. ....
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] Certainly, any download list can be
modified with a text editor and my BBS
(Elwood)[76057,3210] There are MANY MANY more pirated files on
this list as it goes on.. I will mail it to any one on request
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] does not have 1000's of files
(Elwood)[76057,3210] I FIGURED YOU'D SAY THAT RALPH
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] ga
(Elwood)[76057,3210] I stopped the listing on the request of the SYSOP on
this conference
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] Thank you for stopping Elwood, but you've
leveled serious charges. .Ralph, for the record, whats your response? ga
(Elwood)[76057,3210] They are all true.. Give me your ID number
and Ill send you a list of some PASSWORDS and HANDLEs to his system
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] Elwood, you better stop this now. ....
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] That list could be from anywhere as it
opened up with a pure PD listing then showed files I've never heard of
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] Before we get into legal problems.
(Elwood)[76057,3210] You've ripped people off enough RALPH!
Your Exposed!
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] As a matter of fact, the beginning
portion of the list was PD and the rest is not from my BBS...ga
(Elwood)[76057,3210] AND THE REST?? And the REST i did not show!
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] Elwood, this isnt a court of law and I suggest you
stop....
(Elwood)[76057,3210] The Bounty (Pirate) Bbs (904) 786-4176
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] These charges cannot be proven or refuted here.
% Moderator recognizes queue #9
ROBERT <14>
(ROBERT)[73457,2135] Sorry I waz cut off before from cis. As I was saying.
I'm wondering about the level of professionalism of a so called NEWS
JOURNAL. A journal....which protects both reporters and sources
(why would....reporters need protecting? I've never heard....that
before), a journal which has printed....more than once inaccurate
information....on a number of subjects, and a journal which throws
tantrums....such as saying one week they are off GEnie, the next week
they are off DELPHI, then they are back on genie the week....after
next and so on. What is your standards of professionalism??? ga
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] First of all we are only protecting
contributors not reporters. Secondly, professionalism is in the eyes
of the beholder.
(ROBERT)[73457,2135] If contributors write articles..for a news journal,
I'd call them reporters. No? Ralph: What is your background in
journalism?
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] I doubt very much that you can honestly
say we print inaccurate information consistently. ga
(Ron Kovacs)[71777,2140] One sec...We print information we get from the
services and from people who send material to us. When we print
information without a proper check, we get into minor.. problems,
because those facts are either wrong or there are inaccurate to some
extent. The problem on GEnie was started because of a problem with..
communication between the magazines. We have solved the communication
problem.. and look forward to a better relationship in the future. I
hope this answers your question. ga
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] Ron & Ralph-- wouldnt this issue be settled if you
started crediting where ...your material originated? ga
(ROBERT)[73457,2135] thanks ron...I'm also interested in hearing more
about your backgrounds in journalism.ga.
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] When it's possible to include a
contributor's name, it is readily done so. My background is volunteer..ga
(ROBERT)[73457,2135] huh?
(Ron Kovacs)[71777,2140] Zmag includes names on all articles when we know
who they are. SOMETIMES the material I get..isnt authored and I cannot
credit the proper source. My background in journalism has been..a
learning exp... from three years on stumbling and correcting my errors. ga
% Moderator recognizes queue #10
David R. <7>
(David R.)[76515,3055] OK... This is a little more than a page long so
grab your capture buffers.
Whoops... Using Flash, as you can see :)
First, Ron and Ralph, this is not an attack and slash question.
I feel that you do help a lot of Atari users out with your
magazine and you have put a lot of time and effort into your
work. I would just like to find out about a few vague
references that you made in ST-Report#58 (October 24).
1) "ALMOST......on a DAILY basis we Hear or Read: 'We will
not be researching or developing any further products for
the Atari ST.'"
2) You say that Atari will not release the sales information
to the developers because it is confidential information, and
yet, since they went public with their stock, that information
is provided with each quarterly report that stockholders
receive. It should be freely given
to developers, but it is available if they look around.
3) "They have managed to alienate almost two thirds of the
sincere developers in this country interested in them."
4) You have a note from a "prominent" developer saying how much
(David R.)[76515,3055] received a congradulatory letter from
Apple. The first page of my Atari developer's documentation thanks me
and I also received a personal phone call from Cindy Claveran
explaining to me who to talk to about questions or problems along with
a "thank you" letter from her with the package.
You mentioned Word Perfect in your article... since I must be one of
the "third" left and if it won't hurt any of your confidential sources
(which I respect your right to do), would you name off a few of the
"two-thirds" who left, tell us who this "prominent" developer is, and
tell us where this information was taken from?? ga
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] As far as the prominent developer is
concerned, he is at this time quite active in the Atari field but has in
fact become a developer for another computer company and has stated off
the record that his current project is his last for the ST unless Atari
mends its ways. Also the Word Perfect statement was a public release
from Word Perfect.ga
(David R.)[76515,3055] But no names of the dozens of others who have left
according to the article?
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] I can verify Ralph's statements from this
'developer' who asked to be anonymous.
(David R.)[76515,3055] I don't question the note from the developer.
I was just wondering if they could say who it was. But, I will respect
the right of that person to remain anonymous.
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] It should be very evident by the lack
of new and innovative goodies from third party developers for the better
part of this year..ga
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] David-- did your whole question get answered?
(David R.)[76515,3055] I guess that's all I'll get... thanks.
ga
% Moderator recognizes queue #12
JOHN NAGY <4>
(JOHN NAGY)[72327,3042] I haven't seen an answer all night...just
responses. I guess we got REX here tonight instead of Ralph. I pass.
ga
% Moderator recognizes queue #13
Elwood <11>
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] Your comments are well taken and
understood and in your case, you're right.ga
(Elwood)[76057,3210] Please when your all done with this conference Look
at your Mail! GA bye
% Moderator recognizes queue #14
Dave Small <10>
(Dave Small)[76606,666] Do you feel a 68030 box will be released at
Comdex? .ga.
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] First Dave, let me congratulate you on
Spector 128...I love it! Now a 68030 box is very much in Atari's
future and I would not be surprised...if we saw it at Comdex.ga
(Dave Small)[76606,666] ok, thank you.. .ga.
% Moderator recognizes queue #15
Pattie Rayl <12>
(Pattie Rayl)[71361,411] Ralph, how do you think your brand of accusatory
journalism better serve the Atari community than a "gentler" approach?ga.
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] Pattie, my brand of journalism
according to many of the readers has been a refreshing difference.
I am sure that as ST Report matures, we will see more and more of the
gentler approach.ga
(Pattie Rayl)[71361,411] So is the National Enquirer, but no one takes
it seriously. ga
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] Pattie, the only thing I can say about
being called the National Enquierer is that at least people are reading
and taking the time to give it a nick name.ga
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] okay, I have a question for Ron and Ralph....
Do you have any stats on how many people read each issue?....i.e.-
whats your circulation. ....And please state how you came up with the
number. ga
(Ron Kovacs)[71777,2140] Zmag is currently displayed on 300 BBS systems.
most being 8 bit boards, they get downloads ...ranging from 5-50
downloads each,. On the services Zmag is at approx. 30-50 each week,
depending on content I guess. I get these numbers by asking the sysops
from time to time when I call them personally. ST-Reports counts can be
given by Ralph. ga
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] Ralph? how about STR?
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] ST Report currently enjoys close to
1200 downloads per month on another service...on this service and
another it's another 1000 there...and throughout the private BBS
community we can only guess conservatively... the amounts being in excess
of 7 to 10K per month. Also ...ST Report can be found circulated on
a monthly disk that accompanies a monthly...hard copy magazine. So
whatever their circulation is.. ours is.ga
% Moderator recognizes queue #16
JOHN NAGY <4>
(JOHN NAGY)[72327,3042] I wanted to say that i never expected to take the
offensive with you Ralph, but your comments and responses took me WAY
off gaurde. I expecrted answers and some openness, like you exibit in
ST report...I want to thank you sincerely for the obvoius work and
research you do for the mag, and if it had no redeeming values, it
would never be popular enough to be a subject of debate. I nevertheless
ask for a bit more reporting and a bit straighter commentary...
obviously, thats just my request, but i send it with good faith and
respects. ga.
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] Ralph-- closing comments?
(R.Mariano-ST Report)[73710,1052] OK........you took the offensive, you
said your piece...
In closing:
I would like to say to everybody here and anyone who reads the
transcript that we will continually strive to improve ST Report in any
way possible...but the bottom line is to "Say it like we see it", no
sugar coating no pablum, and above all else, no fear of any critique
from anybody. ...
We will however, continue to take every effort to ensure accuracy to
the best of our ability...and if we make mistakes, we're only human.
Thanks for coming this evening... and a special thanks to Elwood for
giving us more notoriety...
PT Barnum once said, "I don't care what they're saying about us,
as long as they're talking about US"! Good night all..ga
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] Ron Kovacs--closing comments?
(Ron Kovacs)[71777,2140] Thank you everyone for attending. I am not sure
what you expected to see,..but Ralph Mariano has his style and we
either have to like it or we have the choice of not reading the
material. Zmag has been the quiet magazine and probably always be,
that is my personal style.......ST-Report is popular because of the
sensational writing done.. by R Mariano. You are all welcome to
comment and I would appreciate it if you...would send your comments to
Ralph via the mail systems so that he can see what you think. It has
been going on three years and I hope we are at least...getting better
with age. Thanks again! Goodnight!..!
(SYSOP-Ron)[76703,254] okay-- goodnite all. thx for attending.
The conference has ended Thank you for attending
*******
The inserts provided below are here to prove that we have a capture of
what Elwood saw during the CO....the following are excerpts of 'behind the
scenes' conversation between Elwood and various people attending the CO.
They are included here as reference only.
Job# PPN#
User User ID Nod Name
---- ------------- --- -------------------
1 76615,2013 WBR Dick_H
2 76703,254 DFL SYSOP-Ron
3 73457,2135 LIU ROBERT
4 72327,3042 LSM JOHN NAGY
5 71777,2140 GBO Ron Kovacs
6 73710,1052 JAX R.Mariano-ST Report
7 76515,3055 LAF David R.
8 76703,4363 LIS Mike
9 73217,2204 FYN deborah penxa
10 76606,666 DEQ Dave Small
11 76057,3210 FLM Elwood
12 71361,411 ANN Pattie Rayl
14 72077,43 BOU kk
15 70003,1745 MAU paul weinstein
;;V_ARTS: - Job 10: I'm requesting .. will be *happy* to write it up for
Current Notes
;;V_ARTS: - Job 12: Could you send that entire capture to 71361,411
;;V_ARTS: - Job 10: if you'll type /send 10 (text) you can send back
to me.
;;V_ARTS: - Job 10: if you'll give me a PW, I'll sign in on another
machine to that board..
/send 10 ok.. yes Ill send it to you
;;V_ARTS: - Job 10: board is busy right now.
;;V_ARTS: - Job 10: no problem
/SEND 2 is there some way I could call and talk to you after this
Conference? Also Leave u mail
;;V_ARTS: - Job 2: yes. i'll send you my number after its done.
;;V_ARTS: - Job 2: my number is xxx-xxx-xxxx. call in 5 minutes.
;;V_ARTS: - Job 12: Sure xxx-xxx-xxxx
Noting that there would be no way for us to have seen these "behind
the scenes messages" it tends to add to the validity of what we have to
say..
We received a complete capture of what Elwood saw on 'his' screen.
Folks, there are enough users out there who are acquainted with us well
enough to know that the entire tirade from "Elwood & Co." is nothing more
than malicious, immature SLANDER.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ELWOOD'S POSTSCRIPT
===================
Conf : ST REPORT
Msg# : 1268 Lines: Extended Read: 1
Sent : Nov 14, 1988 at 8:02 AM
Recv : Nov 14, 1988
To : SYSOP
From : ELWOOD
Subj : The MSG
An open letter to the readers of ST Report.
On November 9th, 1988 a mistake was made. Before an attempt at
explanation is made, understand this: There are large numbers of Atari
owners who still care about the futures of their Machines. Events of the
last 6 months seem to point to a accelerated demise of the ST Computer in
America. While many people are willing to be counted among the doomsayers,
very few are willing to display the open confidence in the ST line that
was prevalent just a short time ago. Although the print media, more often
than not, does not report negative news, the doomsayers are heard by an
estimated 20 - 40% of the ST population via the electronic news.
Sister publications Zmag and ST Report are among the most widely
read free information services. While Zmag continuely attempts to perform
artificial respiration upon the 8bit carcass, ST Report often seems to be
Hell bent on destroying what little faith remains in all ST users. While
many of us may agree with the often valid complaints raised by "REX READE"
the often brutal methods used by ST Report to convey their gripes more
often than not only serve to isolate and intimidate the very pillars and
founding fathers of the Atari community as a whole. With this in mind,
please attempt to understand the following.
Those of us who still believe in the future of Atari in America are
more and more being pushed to the wall. With Atari itself at, seemingly,
a 10 year low with domestic customer and developer relations, the mantle
of user support has more and more fallen to independent user groups and
their electronic counterparts - the bulletin board system. Thus, mediums
such as St Report come to have a weighted influence in the ST community.
With this in mind, the mistake was made of trying to attempt to
discredit ST Report by Myself and several Others. Having been given a
"listing" of supposed copywritten materials to be found on a The Bulletin
Board System ooperated by ST Report Editor Ralph Mariano and an account
which allegedly would support the listing, only minutes before a
Teleconference was to be held on Compuserve, we elected to display the
information openly on the conference with the intent of verifying it as
soon as possible after the CO. After having made the allegations based
upon this material the original source confidentially admitted the entire
listing to have been a hoax. I now at this time publicly apologize for
any and all damages which may have occurred to either ST Report and
Ralph Mariano, or the Bounty BBS.
11/14/88 "Elwood"
ELWOOD may be reached through The Crypt BBS, 313-743-8037
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
POCKET WHAT?
------------
by George Keller
As a follow-up to a recent ST Report Confidential Item, here are
a few more tidbits about the "Atari Pocket Computer" or, as it's being
billed.."The Atari Pocket PC" ( the housewive's companion (?)). This
jewel will have 256k ROM/512k RAM and programs are to be imported via the
rs232 port. Reliable sources in the U.K. expect to see thois baby
available for sale to the general public by January 1989. A casual
observation is that Comdex at this popint in time is going to be
mediochre at best...There is really no major reference to Atari's answer
to postscript and a plethora of so- called new and innovative good are
genuinely obvious by their absence.
Truly, it becomes easier and easier to believe the industry wide
comment; "Atari indicates it believes Europe is it's domestic market and
the USA and Canada are the International market." Just a point to ponder,
what if Atari would just put the machines in place to satisfy the demand
that is there for them, what a wonderful Atari market there would be!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ABCO COMPUTER ELECTRONICS INC.
P.O. Box 6672
Jacksonville, Florida 32236-6672
904-783-3319
HARD DISK SYSTEMS TO FIT EVERY BUDGET
-------------------------------------
20mb #SG20510 519.00 30mb #SG32610 649.00
40mb #SG44710 789.00 65mb #SG60101 949.00
80mb #SG840110 1019.00 130mb #SG3A1210 1449.00
larger units are available - (special order only)
*** Available for ST - Amiga - Mac - IBM ***
6 month Guarantee
followed by
6 month Parts & Labor Warranty
(under normal usage)
--------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ST REPORT CONFIDENTIAL
======================
Sunnyvale, CA Look at the high res monitor, 1260 x 980 and the EST,
------------- with it's 68030 and DSP 56001 (Motorola)..more colors and
better sound, why it's an Amiga Killer!
Las Vegas, NV PC Ditto show off new found speed and delights unknown to
------------- the average user.
Houston, TX The Chamber of Commerce here has removed the Roldex card
----------- with Atari's name and number on it from the holder and
placed it in file 13.
Orem, UT Word Perfect Corp. is making a strong effort to have it's
-------- German language version completed very shortly. We wish
'em all the success possible, in fact, we hope the UK
version sells like crazy and it starts the ball rolling
again..perhaps Atari US can learn from Atari UK
Los Angeles, CA Dynacad fans will be glad to know that the new monitor
--------------- from Moniterm, will be available by mid December, that
includes Monitor and card for a scant $1995.00.
San Diego, CA FTL Games/Software Heaven, has announced that Dungeon
------------- Master, "The Revenge of Kaos" will be available for the
ST by the third week in December (This is the Sequel)
also, for the Amiga Fans, a playtest version is being put
through it's paces. It won't be long now.
Las Vegas, NV Comdex The laptop, or Atari portable is making a debut,
------------- of sorts, hopefully this is the true beginning of the
..."NEW ERA" for Atari....we sure hope so.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANTIC PUBLISHING INC.
COPYRIGHT 1988
REPRINTED BY PERMISSION.
PROFESSIONAL GEM by Tim Oren
Column #12 - GEM Events and Program Structure
So I fibbed a little. This issue (#12) of ST PRO GEM started
out to be another discussion of interface issues. But, as Tolkien
once said, the tale grew in the telling, and this is now the first
of a series of three articles. This part will discuss AES event
handling and its implications for GEM program structure. The
following article will contain a "home brew" dialog handler with
some new features, and the third will, finally, take up the
discussion of interface design, using the dialog handler as an
example. (There is no download for this article. The downloads
will return, with a vengeance, in ST PRO GEM #13.)
ALL FOR ONE, AND ONE FOR ALL. A quick inspection of the AES
documents shows that there are five routines devoted to waiting
for individual types of events, and one routine, evnt_multi, which
is used when more than one type is desired. This article will
discuss ONLY evnt_multi for two reasons. First, it is the most
frequently used of the routines. Second, waiting for one type of
event is a bad practice. Any event call turns the system over to
the AES and suspends the application and its interaction with the
user. In such cases, some "escape clause", such as a timer,
should be inserted to revive the program and prompt the user if no
event is forthcoming. Otherwise, the application may end up
apparently (or actually) hung, with a resulting reboot, and
probably a very annoyed user.
STARTING AHEAD. One possible type of event is a message.
Messages are usually sent to the application by the AES, and are
associated with windows or the menu. Two previous articles in
this series have discussed such messages. ST PRO GEM number two
considered window messages, and number seven handled menu
messages. You may want to review these topics before proceeding.
The actual evnt_multi call is a horrendous thing:
ev_which = evnt_multi(ev_flags,
btn_clicks, btn_mask, btn_state,
r1_flags, r1_x, r1_y, r1_w, r1_h,
r2_flags, r2_x, r2_y, r2_w, r2_h,
&msg_buff,
time_lo, time_hi,
&mx, &my, &btn, &kbd, &char, &clicks);
Each of the lines in the call relate to a different event, and
they will be discussed in the order in which they appear.
Note that a call with this number of parameters causes some
overhead due to stacking and retrieval of the values. In most
cases, this should be of little concern on a machine as fast as
the ST. However, where throughput is a concern, such as in close
tracking of the mouse cursor, you may want to write a customized
binding for evnt_multi which dispenses with the parameter list.
This can be accomplished by maintaining the values in a static
array and moving them as a block into the binding arrays int_in
(for all values but &msg_buff), and addr_in (for &msg_buff). Note
that you may NOT simply leave the values in int_in; other AES
bindings reuse this space.
Ev_flags and ev_which are both 16-bit integers composed of
flag bits. Bits set in ev_flags determine which event(s) the call
will wait for; those set in ev_which indicate what event(s)
actually occurred. Both use the following flag bit mnemonics and
functions:
0x0001 - MU_KEYBD - Keyboard input
0x0002 - MU_BUTTON - Mouse button(s)
0x0004 - MU_M1 - Mouse rectangle #1
0x0008 - MU_M2 - Mouse rectangle #2
0x0010 - MU_MESAG - AES message
0x0020 - MU_TIMER - Timer
The appropriate mnemonics are ORed together to create the proper
ev_flags value.
There is one common pitfall here. Notice that multiple
events may be reported from one evnt_multi. Event merging is
performed by the AES in order to save space on the application's
event queue. If events have been merged, more than one bit will
be set in the ev_which word. Your application must check ALL of
the bits before returning to a new evnt_multi call. If you
don't do this, some events may be effectively lost.
The first event to be considered is the mouse button. This
is probably the most difficult event to understand and use, and it
has one major shortcoming.
The parameter btn_clicks tells GEM the maximum number of
clicks which you are interested in seeing. This value is usually
two, if your program uses the double-click method, or one if only
single clicks are used. The AES returns the number of clicks
which caused the event through &clicks, which must be a pointer to
a word.
GEM determines the number of clicks by the following method.
When the first button-down is detected, a time delay is begun. If
another complete button-up, button-down cycle is detected before
the time expires, then the result is a double click. Otherwise,
the event is a single click. Note that the final state of the
buttons is returned via &btn, as described below. By checking
this final state, you may determine whether a single click event
ended with the button up (a full click), or with the button still
down (which may be interpreted as the beginning of a drag
operation). Double clicking is meaningless, and not checked, if
the evnt_multi is waiting on more than one button (see below).
The double-click detection delay is variable, and may be set
by your program using the call
ev_dspeed = ev_dclick(ev_dnew, ev_dfunc);
Ev_dfunc is a flag which determines the purpose of the call. If
it is zero, the current double click speed is returned in
ev_dspeed. If ev_dfunc is non-zero, then ev_dnew becomes the new
double-click speed. Both ev_dspeed and ev_dnew are words
containing a "magic number" between zero and four. Zero is the
slowest (i.e., longest) double-click, and four is the fastest.
(These correspond to the slow-fast range in the Desktop's
Preferences dialog.) In general, you should not reset the click
speed unless specifically requested, because such a change can
throw off the user's timing and destroy the hand/eye coordination
involved in using the mouse.
GEM was originally designed to work with a single button
input device. This allows GEM applications to function well with
devices such as light pens and digitizing tablets. However, some
features are available for dealing with multi-button mice like the
ST's.
The evnt_multi parameters btn_mask and btn_state are words
containing flag bits corresponding to buttons. The lowest order
bit corresponds to the left-most button, and so on. A bit is set
in the btn_mask parameter if the AES is to watch a particular
button. The corresponding bit in btn_state is set to the value
for which the program is waiting. The word returned via &btn
uses the same bit system to show the state of the buttons at
completion. It is important to notice that all of the target
states in btn_state must occur SIMULTANEOUSLY for the event to be
triggered.
Note the limiting nature of this last statement. It prevents
a program from waiting for EITHER the left or right button to be
pressed. Instead, it must wait for BOTH to be pressed, which is a
difficult operation at best. As a result, the standard mouse
button procedure is practically useless if you want to take full
advantage of both buttons on the ST mouse. In this case, your
program must "poll" the mouse state and determine double-clicks
itself. (More on polling later.) By the way, many designers
(myself included) believe that using both buttons is inherently
confusing and should be avoided anyway.
MOUSE RECTANGLES. One of GEM's nicer features is its ability
to watch the mouse pointer's position for you, and report an event
only when it enters or departs a given screen region. Since you
don't have to track the mouse pixel by pixel, this eliminates a
lot of application overhead. The evnt_multi call gives you the
ability to specify one or two rectangular areas which will be
watched. An event can be generated either when the mouse pointer
enters the rectangle, or when it leaves the rectangle. The "r1_"
series of parameters specifies one of the rectangles, and the
"r2_" series specifies the other, as follows:
r1_flag, r2_flag - zero if waiting to enter rectangle,
one if waiting to leave rectangle
r1_x, r2_x - upper left X raster coordinate of wait rectangle
r1_y, r2_y - upper left Y raster coordinate of wait rectangle
r1_w, r2_w - width of wait rectangle in pixels
r1_h, r2_h - height of wait rectangle in pixels
Each rectangle wait will only be active if its associated flag
(MU_M1 or MU_M2) was set in ev_flags.
There are two common uses of rectangle waits. The first is
used when creating mouse-sensitive regions on the screen. Mouse-
sensitive regions, also called "hot spots", are objects which show
a visual effect, such as inversion or outlining, when the mouse
cursor moves over them. The items in a menu dropdown, or the
inversion of Desktop icons during a drag operation, are common
examples.
Hot spots are commonly created by grouping the sensitive
objects into one or two areas, and then setting up a mouse
rectangle wait for entering the area. When the event is
generated, the &mx and &my returns may be examined to find the
true mouse coordinates, and objc_find or some other search will
determine the affected object. The object is then highlighted,
and a new wait for exiting the object rectangle is posted. (ST
PRO GEM #13 will show how to create more complex effects with
rectangle waits.)
The second common use of rectangle waits is in animating a
drag operation. In many cases, you can use standard AES animation
routines such as graf_dragbox or graf_rubberbox. In other cases,
you may want a figure other than a simple box, or desire to
combine waits for other conditions such as keystrokes or
collision with hotspots. Then you will need to implement the drag
operation yourself, using the mouse rectangles to track the
cursor.
If you want to track the cursor closely, simply wait for exit
on a one pixel rectangle at the current position, and perform the
animation routine at each event. If the drag operation only works
on a grid, such as character positions, you can specify a larger
wait rectangle and only update the display when a legal boundary
is crossed.
MESSAGES. The &msg_buff parameter of evnt_multi gives the
address of a 16 byte buffer to receive an AES message. As noted
above, I have discussed standard AES messages elsewhere. The last
column also mentioned that messages may be used to simulate co-
routines within a single GEM program.
A further possibility which bears examination is the use of
messages to coordinate the activities of multiple programs. In
single-tasking GEM, at least one of these programs would have to
be a desk accessory. In any such use of the GEM messages, you
should pay careful attention to the possibility of overloading the
queue. Only eight slots are provided per task, and messages,
unlike events, cannot be merged by the AES.
TIMER. The timer event gives you a way of pacing action on
the screen, clocking out messages, or providing a time-out exit
for an operation. Evnt_multi has two 16-bit timer input
parameters, time_hi and time_lo, which are the top and bottom
halves, respectively, of a 32-bit millisecond count. However,
this documented time resolution must be taken with a grain of salt
on the ST, considering that its internal clock frequency is 200Hz!
The timer event is also extremely useful for polling the
event queue. A "poll" tests the queue for completed events
without going into a wait state if none are present. In GEM, this
is done by generating a null event which always occurs
immediately. A timer count of zero will do just that.
Therefore, you can poll for any set of events by specifying
them in the evnt_multi parameters. A zero timer wait is then
added to ensure immediate completion. Upon return, if any event
bit(s) OTHER than MU_TIMER are set, a significant event was found
on the queue. If only MU_TIMER is set, the poll failed to find an
event.
KEYBOARD. There are no input parameters for the keyboard
event. The character which is read is returned as a 16-bit
quantity through the &char parameter. For historical reasons, the
codes which are returned are compatible with the IBM PC's BIOS
level scan codes. You can find this character table in Appendix D
of the GEM VDI manual. In general, the high byte need only be
considered if the lower byte is zero. If the low byte is non-
zero, it is a valid ASCII character.
Evnt_multi also returns the status of several modifier keys
through the &kbd parameter. This word contains four significant
bits as follows:
0x0001 - Right hand shift key
0x0002 - Left hand shift key
0x0004 - Control key
0x0008 - ALT key
If a bit is one, the key was depressed when the event was
generated. Otherwise, the key was up. Since the state of these
keys is already taken into account in generating the &char scan
code, the &kbd word is most useful when creating enhanced mouse
functions, such as shift-click or control-drag.
RANDOM NOTES ON EVENTS. Although the &mx, &my, &btn, and
&kbd returns are nominally associated with particular event types,
they are valid on any return from evnt_multi, and reflect the last
event which was merged into that return by the AES. If you want
more current values, you may use graf_mkstate to resample them.
Whichever method you choose, be consistent within the application,
since the point of sampling has an effect on mouse and keyboard
timing.
Although this and preceding columns have been presented in
terms of a GEM application, the event system has many interesting
implications for desk accessories. Since the AES scheduler uses
non-preemptive dispatching, accessories have an event priority
effectively equal to the main application. Though "typical"
accessories wait only for AC_OPEN or AC_CLOSE messages when in
their quiescent state, this is not a requirement of the system.
Timer and other events may also be requested by an accessory.
(Indeed, there is no absolute requirement that an accessory
advertise its presence with a menu_register call.) The aspiring
GEM hacker might consider how these facts could be used to create
accessories similar to "BUGS" on the Mac, or to the "Crabs"
program described in the September, 1985 issue of Scientific
American.
EVENTS AND GEM PROGRAM STRUCTURE. Although the evnt_multi
call might seem to be a small part of the entire GEM system, its
usage has deep implications for the structure of any application.
It is generally true that each use of evnt_multi corresponds to a
mode in the program. For instance, form_do contains its own
evnt_multi, and its invocation creates a moded dialog. While the
dialog is in progress, other features such as windows and menus
are unusable. The graf_dragbox, graf_rubberbox, and graf_slidebox
routines also contain evnt_multi calls. They create a mode which
is sometimes called "spring-loaded", since the mode vanishes when
some continuing condition (a depressed mouse button) is removed.
In consequence, a well-designed, non-modal GEM program will
contain only one explicit evnt_multi call. This call is part of a
top-level loop which decodes events as they are received and
dispatches control to the appropriate handling routine. The
dispatcher must always distinguish between event types. In
programs where multiple windows are used, it may also need to
determine which local data structure is associated with the active
window.
This construction is sometimes called a "push" program
structure, because it allows the user to drive the application
by generating events in any order. This contrasts with the "pull"
structure of traditional command line or menu programs, where the
application is in control and demands input at each step before it
proceeds. "Push" structure promotes consistent use of the
user interface and a feeling of control on the part of the user.
The next ST PRO GEM column will look more closely at events
and program structure in the context of a large piece of code.
The code implements an alternate dialog handler, incorporating
mouse-sensitive objects as part of the standard interface. Since
this code is "open", it may be modified and merged with any
application's main event loop, resulting in non-modal dialogs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS WEEK'S QUOTABLE QUOTE
==========================
Credo of GREED
--------------
"I am not in the computer business, I am in the money making business
and I will make and sell ANY electronic item that will achieve that goal!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ST-REPORT Issue #61 November 14, 1988
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (c)copywrite STR Inc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any reprint must include ST-Report and the author in the credits.
Views Presented herein are not necessarily those of STR Inc. or APEInc.
COMMERCIAL ONLINE SERVICES MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION
to offer ANY APEInc. REPORT and/or ZMAG in any form.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
