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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 640
Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 5 Dec 91 Volume 91 : Issue 640
Today's Topics:
1040STf to MEGA STe diffs...
Atari's Cartridge port???
Atari Spirit (2 msgs)
Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
Calamus SL / Hi Res boards
Flow Chart Compiler, Anyone Interested??
HELP: Mouse is flaky.
Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #639
Microsoft mice (mouse?)
New uploads to atari.archive (Merry Xmas)
Rumors on the 520STe...
ST database program needed.
TT prices (2 msgs)
vt100 emulation
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 6 Dec 91 00:08:27 GMT
From: news-server.csri.toronto.edu!eecg.toronto.edu!singhvk@rutgers.rutgers.edu
(Vijaya Singh (Vij))
Subject: 1040STf to MEGA STe diffs...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I'm considering replacing my old-but-reliable 1040STf (from 1986)
with a new top-of-the-line ST. (Is this the MEGA STe??)
So, can anybody point out the enhancements? What about
incompatibilities? I'm mainly using Dr.T's OMEGA music
software and need MORE memory. Just curious about what
goodies the MEGA STe has to offer.
Thanks,
VIJ...
singhvk@eecg.toronto.edu
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 21:22:54 GMT
From: pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!janus.enet.dec.com!rafatjoo@decwrl.dec.com
(Bahman Rafatjoo)
Subject: Atari's Cartridge port???
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Dec5.114052.2142@darwin.ntu.edu.au>, topfm@darwin.ntu.edu.au
writes:
|> Can any-one help me with this.
|>
|> Looking at the cartridge port of the ST i can find 16 data connections
|> but only 15 addresses.
|>
|> I want to be able to both read and write to the cartridge port. Also I can
|> find no reference to the speed of the cartridge port.
|>
|> Rob.
>>There's a problem with reading _and_ writing to the cartridge port.
>>But a German Organization has actually managed to read AND write by a mean
trick,
>>you must read a special adress, which gives the device online the hint, that
you
>>want to transmit data and the data is in one of the registers.......
Almost....
The problem with the port is that the Glue chip in the ST prohibits
writes to the Cartridge port by issueing bus errors.
The way to overcome it (if you don't have too many registers to
write to) is to use the bottom 8 bits of the address as data and
perform a read from a special location within the Cartridge port
address range. Your hooked-up logic can then detect this and
write the 'data' away.
As far as timing goes, you're in luck. At university I did a project
which involved using the port as I've described, so I checked the
timing using a Logic Analyzer. I'll have a look for it and post it.
Bahman.
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 21:29:14 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!clarkson!wal
shm@arizona.edu (Matt 'MTM' Walsh)
Subject: Atari Spirit
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Alot of this talk of the Amiga being decendant of the 400/800
series gets me all choked up inside. Like all of you debating
about this, I want to know how I can get back to the fun I had with
my Atari.
It was the favorite computer I have ever worked with. More fun than
an IBm, Apple II, Mainframe, etc. It was loaded with trivia and
secrets. Why was there a right cartridge slot (except for monkey wrench).
How about the co-processor? anyone buy the fast chip and install it?
I did, but it didn't seem to do anything. The games were fun and
the programming was unburdened by the loads of complexity and extremeness of
size in today's computers. Anyone ever try the 'self-destruct' program
in one of the last issues of AnALOG?
I just think it's too bad that my Mac IIcx can't be a Atari 800 that
runs at 33 mhz, can easily address 16 MB or more, and have lots of
colors.
--
Matt Walsh walshm@clutx.clarkson.edu
614-424-4159 (daytime)
614-538-9427 (after 5 est)
How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat? You! Yes You!
------------------------------
Date: 6 Dec 91 01:43:21 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!wcsanil@arizona
.edu (Anil Prasad)
Subject: Atari Spirit
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <walshm.691968554@craft.camp.clarkson.edu>
walshm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Matt 'MTM' Walsh) writes:
>
>Anyone ever try the 'self-destruct' program
>in one of the last issues of AnALOG?
>
Is Analog magazine still going???????? What about that other one,
I forget the name, oh yah, Antic (aka: Antique), is that still
around?
wow, all this 400/800/1200/600xl/800xl/800xe etc. stuff is sure
stirring up some old memories...
those were the days... when computers were computers, men were men,
and sheep were afraid...
========================================================
Anil Prasad || This space available at
wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca || very reasonable rates!!
========================================================
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 14:17:19 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!yorkohm!minster!mjl-b@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <kjm9omINNn8r@aludra.usc.edu> baffoni@aludra.usc.edu (Juxtaposer)
writes:
>
> In article <1991Nov30.113242.7862@ugle.unit.no> stigvi@Lise.Unit.NO (Stig
Vidar Hovland) writes:
>> [incorrect stuff deleted]
>>
> I understand that the TT has an asynchronus bus, but what is the
>maximum rate for memory read/write?
The maximum transfer rate is when the 68030 is burst-filling its caches,
when you can avoid the set-up part of the memory read bus cycle.
>So if you wrote some assemly that just
>wrote one word sequentially from memory into a register, how many words should
>you be able to access/s - and is it strictly dependent on the memory speed, or
>is there a minimum number of wait-states (ie, would using 20ns memory be faster
>or the same as using 70ns memory...)?
There isn't really a concept of wait states -- the 68030 simply waits for
the correct signals to be asserted before it continues its bus cycle. The
memory controller waits for the info to be made available / settle in the
RAM, and then asserts the appropriate signals.
Using 20ns memory would mean that you could achive 32MHz bus transfer rates --
but 20ns RAM isn't cheap!
>BTW, if the bus is "clocked" at 16MHz,
>should you go through 8 million words (Memory read is 2 clock cycles, right -
>one for instruction fetch, one for memory loading)? Or will it be skewed by
>the instruction cache in the '030?
It's a very difficult question to answer, because it depends on the effects
of caching. It depends on what is in the cache to start with, what
interrupts come along etc. etc.
> Just my $.002 worth...
>
>-Mike
Mathew
| Mathew Lodge | "Baldrick, are the words 'I have a cunning plan' |
| mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk | heading towards this conversation with ill |
| Summer: lodge%alsys@uknet | deserved confidence?" -- Blackadder III |
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 21:11:40 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!jupiter!mor
gan.ucs.mun.ca!garfield!avp@arizona.edu (Anthony Paul)
Subject: Calamus SL / Hi Res boards
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Is there a demo version of Calamus SL available? If so where
can I get it? Is it FTPable? If not, can someone tell me
about it? ($$$?)
Also, I'm thinking of moving up to higher resolution, could anyone
comment on the options available and the prices?
-res
-colors
-monitor required
-compatibility
-etc.
thanks very much in advance,
Anthony V. PauL AV VPPPP
137 Rennies Mill Rd. A V V P
St. John's, Nf A V V P
CanadA AAAAV VPPPP
A1B 2P2 A V V
A VV
avp@garfield.UUCP || It wasn't me. || Electrical '9
avp@garfield.cs.mun.ca || Boston Celtics in 91-92 || Engineering 3
|| The best defense is a good offense. --- How do you Drive? ||
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 19:53:19 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!gatech!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!pi!boyd@
arizona.edu (Mickey Boyd)
Subject: Flow Chart Compiler, Anyone Interested??
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <2287.293cdf8a@sleepy.bmd.trw.com>, mfallero@sleepy.bmd.trw.com
writes:
>I am thinking of posting a flow chart compiler that I've been working on. If
>there is enough interest, I'll post it to atari.archive.umich.edu.
>
> [...]
>
>However, the docs for this are taking a lot of my time and
>I'd rather not spend the effort if no one is interested.
>Also, I'd like this to be a shareware program because I
>think it is useful and would appreciate some reward for all
>of the time I've expended in it's creation.
>
I would be interested in this. Please do post it to atari.archive. I have
looked for such programs in the past, so I think it is accurate to say that
yours will be the first flowchart compiler/displayer for the ST.
--
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Mickey R. Boyd | "Come to your senses professor
FSU Computer Science | Fernberg. You did not transcend
Technical Support Group | the time-space continuum. You
email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | got drunk in a topless bar."
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 20:05:20 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!gatech!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!pi!boyd@
arizona.edu (Mickey Boyd)
Subject: HELP: Mouse is flaky.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Dec5.044757.18250@muddcs.claremont.edu>,
cliu@jarthur.claremont.edu (Corey Liu) writes:
>
>I've noticed a gradual decay of its behavior over the
>past week where it would move the pointer only down
>sometimes, but now it seems stuck in the downwards
>mode.
This is common with the older ST mice. You should take it apart and clean
all the gunk out. The newer mice do not have this problem, and are very
rugged.
>
>If it's the mouse, can it be fixed easily? If not,
>any suggestions/prices on a new one? I hear that
>Golden Image makes a nice one. How about the new
>STe/TT mice? Cost is a major consideration,
>performance is secondary.
>
You can convert any Amiga mouse to an ST one (and vice versa) by switching
two wires. This can be done on the Amiga mouse with no soldering or anything.
There are many mice out for the ST. One of the neater ones is the Beetle
mouse. For a selection and prices, I would call Toad computers
(1-800-448-TOAD). Be sure to get ask for a catalog, it is very cool.
>If it's a virus, are there any tried and true methods
>to nuke it?
It could possibly be a virus, although all the ones I have heard of that
mess up the mouse are symetrical (like up is down, down is up, etc). Get
a copy of VKiller from atari.archive and run it on your disks! I'll bet you
have the key virus on a bunch of them (if you have never done a virus kill on
your disks, that is).
--
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Mickey R. Boyd | "Come to your senses professor
FSU Computer Science | Fernberg. You did not transcend
Technical Support Group | the time-space continuum. You
email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | got drunk in a topless bar."
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1991 22:27:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Z_RYMALJL@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (Larry Rymal)
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #639
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Howdy all,
David Butler, in reference to questions regarding the Spectre,
mentions a device called a "potemeter". Since I have Spectre version 3.0,
and read/write to Mac disks, I'm always trying to get more information
to improve my ability to use the emulator.
So, my question is this, what is a "potemeter"? I looked all over
the manual and never could find anything on this device.
Larry Rymal <Z_RYMALJL@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU> |Atari ST & Mac Users of East Texas|
Stephen F. Austin State University, Nacogdoches, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 19:50:39 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!gatech!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!pi!boyd@
arizona.edu (Mickey Boyd)
Subject: Microsoft mice (mouse?)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Dec4.211806.10853@rdg.dec.com>, bailey@newoa.enet.dec.com
(newoa::bailey) writes:
>
>Anyone know if you can use a standard Microsoft serial mouse
>in an Atari and/or an Amiga
>
You can definitely use a bus mouse on either (with some small modifications).
The jury is still out on the serial mouse. I contend that there is some
way to disable the serial controller in the mouse, thus making it a bus
mouse (at which time the above can be done). I have not received any
positive answers to this though.
By the way, I had a chance to play with a Beetle mouse the other day. Very
nice, and it looks good too.
--
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Mickey R. Boyd | "Come to your senses professor
FSU Computer Science | Fernberg. You did not transcend
Technical Support Group | the time-space continuum. You
email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | got drunk in a topless bar."
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 19:36:17 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!gatech!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!bind!boy
d@arizona.edu (Mickey Boyd)
Subject: New uploads to atari.archive (Merry Xmas)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Ok folks, here is my Xmas present to comp.sys.atari.st'ers. These have just
been put on atari.archive.umich.edu, Jeff should have them in the newitems
directory soon. Enjoy!
All .lzh files work with lzh2.01e, all .arc files work with arc6.02.
av_375.lzh - asciiview v3.75. A text file viewer which can replace
the GEM one, or can be used by Neodesk.
fishes.lzh - itty bitty scampering fish simulation. Very nice on a
mono.
formd12d.lzh - latest formdoit
ibmdrive.lzh - Text and pictures describing how to hook generic 3.5"
and 5.25" floppies to the ST. Also includes seek rate
changers for the 5.25" drives.
kdp65.lzh - Kwik Disk v6.5. Doubles the speed of your floppies (with
some risk!).
mdate.lzh - Combo scheduler, phone and address book, and program
launcher.
mdisk60.lzh - Combo ram disk manager, virus destroyer, floppy
formatter, and other stuff.
megachek.lzh - Working demo of a check printing and bill paying
program.
million.lzh - Creates "million dot pictures". Some sort of chaotic
fractal thingy.
nbm11.lzh - New Bench Mark v1.1. Another speed tester for the ST.
sex.lzh - Heehee, I'll let you find out.
star2000.lzh - Smaller PD version of Starbase 8000. Still very nice.
written by J. Andrej Wrotniak, of Current Notes fame.
stcheats.lzh - A large collection of how to put games into "cheat
mode". I was suprised that most of my games have such a
mode (those sneaky programmers).
sticker3.arc - a very complete graphic/text printing program to create
labels for 3.5" disks. The best program for this task.
zannier.lzh - A collection of Neodesk 3 icons, apparently by someone
named Zannier.
zoom.zoo - Acc and prg GEM zoomer. Pretty neat (kinda like Xmag).
--
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Mickey R. Boyd | "Come to your senses professor
FSU Computer Science | Fernberg. You did not transcend
Technical Support Group | the time-space continuum. You
email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | got drunk in a topless bar."
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 23:37:33 GMT
From: apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Azog-Thoth@ames.arpa (William Thomas
Daugustine)
Subject: Rumors on the 520STe...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I ordered a 520STe from D&P computers, and am waiting for it to be
shipped on backorder. While I am waiting, I heard a rumor or two
about it, and wanted to substantiate them...
From what I hear, Atari built the 520STe with only _twos_ SIMMs
sockets, not four, like the 1040STe. Yesnomaybe? If so, did they
do what they did in the older machines, such as using the same
circut board in both, but on the 520, just dont solder in the
SIMMs sockets. (my 520STfm was like that, missing a bank). If
so, then itll be real easy to max the memory. Anyone have a
new 520STe and checked this out? Atari peoples being what they
are, even if Atari built it with only two SIMMs sockets total,
I am sure there are hackers out there who will overcome this...
Whats the latest TOS? Someone told me that you can run 2.x on it,
but from what I recall, the 2.x TOS will only run on Megas with
the larger addressing space for ROM.
And being that they are back ordered, chances are the one Ill
get will HOPEFULLY! have the latest and greatest TOS on it...
And for my own curiousty, before my 520STfm kicked the
bucket (bit bucket, so to speak. Ha! :-), I purchased
an accelerator, made by Creative MicroSystems Inc...
(its got room for a blitter chip on it, which I hope the
520STe has... and also room for a 68881, and some other
hack for fast ROM) Can I use this in the new 520STe? I
dont see why not, but I would rather be sure before I start
messing with things...
Please dont reply to the originating address. I am getting
my account disabled, but they havent done it yet, so Ill
post as much as I can... reply to: azog@gnat.rent.com
Thanx
Billy D'Augustine
azog@gnat.rent.com
att!nsscmail!gnat!thoth!azog
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 22:31:52 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews
.upenn.edu!wharton.upenn.edu!zeibari@arizona.edu
Subject: ST database program needed.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi STers,
I want to get a database program for my 1040ST.
I want to teach my father how to use it, so the program
MUST use GEM. I want something simple but complete and
reliable. It can be public domain or commercial but I
don't want to spend too much money on it.
Please email me your comments of your favorite database
and where I could get it from. I will post a summary
if there is an interest.
Thanks in advance!
*****************************************
* Gregory Zeibari *
* email: zeibari@wharton.upenn.edu *
* *
* BO knows UNIX. *
*****************************************
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 23:13:38 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@
arizona.edu (Richard Covert)
Subject: TT prices
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <kjmvlpINNfh9@iraul1.ira.uka.de> s_grunwa@irau29.ira.uka.de (Knut
Grunwald) writes:
>>Well, Julian it sounds like you live in Germany, so I guess you
>>would know more about what happens there then me. But I do know that
>>many Atari products are sold in Germany which NEVER make it to the
>>USA. So, just because the ASV is sold for about $5,000 USA$ in Germany
>>does NOT mean that it will even be sold here in the USA.
>
>>Want more examples?
>
>>What about the mytical Atari CD ROM drives. Years ago Atari Corp promised
>>a USA CD ROM drive. Which never happened. Just this year Atari Corp
>>promised a SCSI-based CD ROM drive for the Mega STe/TT machine. But
>>now Atari has dropped that as well.
>
>>And what about the new TOS 2.06? Germany says it will be sold, but
>>Atari Corp USA says "Not Now".
>
>Gulp, is this really true ?? I have seen this Atari CD-Drives in a
>shop just 6 Months ago and the TOS 2.06 is advertised at 198.- DM.
>(I don't ordered it, because i own a Mega STE). You can get
>(in Karlsruhe, not Germany/Europe/World) SCSI drives up to 1.4G (this
>spells GigaBytes). The Monitor prices are dropping now, the last offer
>was 19'' BW with card for 1280x960 for 2398.- for the Mega STE, which
>is near to the price i want to pay. Unfortunately the PC Monitors don't
>make it to real high resolution.
>
>May be the USA Users should make a collected order here in Germany.
>This was (and is) the way to get equipment not sold here.
>
>Knut Grunwald
Knut, your points support my position that many things are possible
for the STe/TT, but they aren't always available here in the Third
World Country called America!!
It is really a shame that so many good STe/TT products are available
in Germany but not here. I bought Turbo C from a fellow netter last
month hoping that when Gribnif (or is it GoldLeaf) started importing
it again it would be in englishg. But the latest word is that there
will NOT be an Englisg version of Turbo C. So, I sold it to a guy on
GEnie. He is happy with it even though it is in German. I am sad because
a)I don't read German and b)it won't be translated to English.
Now you lucky German folks can read German so Turbo C might be
great for you. But it is yet another example of why the STe/TT
are failing here in America.
As for the great VME buss cards. it seems like you guys over in Germany
must get better support from Atari Corp then do Americans. Because
you will still need device drivers for those new boards to use them
under UNIX and X Windows. And Atari Corp has never been overly helpful
here!
So, my point is why would an American spend $6,000USA on a TT with
UNIX when that is the same price as a Sparc Clone? And with a Sparc
clone you have access to ALL of the Sun commerical software!!
Also, if you write a program for the Sparc you might just make some
money !! But the entire Atari market, for ALL previously sold
STs,STes, and TTs is smaller then the Sun Sparc market now!! So,
write sw for the TT/ASV and don't make any money. Write it for the
Sparc and you might get rich!!
Nobody is beating down my door asking me to write software for the
Atari TT!! But there are plenty of jobs out there for good sharp
Sun programmers!!
And $6,000 is too much to pay for a toy, home hobby computer!!
The STe is more then adequate for playing games with!!
--
Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org
CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert
------------------------------
Date: 5 Dec 91 23:23:32 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@
arizona.edu (Richard Covert)
Subject: TT prices
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Dec4.051923.22955@chinet.chi.il.us> saj@chinet.chi.il.us
(Stephen Jacobs) writes:
>Contrary to what Richard Covert said in the article this is a reply to, as of
>the show in Chicago 10 days ago Atari US said TOS 2.06 was on schedule for
>US release in early January, that both the Atari label CD ROM drive and
>provisions for connecting most other SCSI CD ROMs to the ST were nearing
>release, and that US developers who had shown special need were already able
>to buy ASV set-ups. FSM GDOS, which he had previously accused of being
>mythical, could be seen running in several places. He should know better.
>
> Steve saj@chinet.chi.il.us
contrary to what Steve said it was reported in ZNet9150 that
the Stylus has been dropped. and that the TOS 2.06 won't be imported
for the forseeable future.
It was reported in either ZNet or ST Report that the CD ROM dropped
has been dropped also. Some sorry excuse was made that Atari couldn't
make a profit on them so No CD ROM drives from Atari. But Atari was
supposed to release something called MetaDOS to allow other people's
CD ROM to work on the STE/TT machines. But once again Atari Corp
has failed to deliver an ANNOUNCED product.
Any one wanna take bets on WHEN (and IF) the Atari UNIX is released
as a commerical product here in America?? All current sales are to
developers and are NOT the final released product. Atari's past history
shows that the Atari UNIX may NEVER be released commerically!!
Or can you buy a STlus from your local dealer?
Or an Atari CD ROM drive?
Or I fogot, you don't even have a local dealer!!
Sorry folks but it is time to buy a real machine with local
dealers. Like a Mac or even a Messy Dos PC clone!!
Atari has failed once again to deliver!!
--
Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org
CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert
------------------------------
Date: 6 Dec 91 02:22:00 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!caen!hellgate.u
tah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!vx9000.weber.edu!dholland@arizona.edu (David Holland)
Subject: vt100 emulation
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I use an ancient version of ST-Talk Pro for my vt100 emulation -
I understand Flash is the standard.
David Holland - dholland@cc.weber.edu
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
